Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[lascuba]

I don't know why I'm so stuck on this, but it's like their definition of charity means giving more than the other person is used to rather than giving what they can. So yeah, maybe that square of banana bread is a much bigger treat than they'd get normally, but damn, way to be selfish and condescending. 

Actually, that really perfectly explains why they rather "help" in Danger America than at home. Nothing like a society with good(ish) infrastructure and some social safety nets to bring home just how little help they offer. 

[Mollie]

28 minutes ago, lascuba said:

I don't know why I'm so stuck on this, but it's like their definition of charity means giving more than the other person is used to rather than giving what they can. So yeah, maybe that square of banana bread is a much bigger treat than they'd get normally, but damn, way to be selfish and condescending. 

Actually, that really perfectly explains why they rather "help" in Danger America than at home. Nothing like a society with good(ish) infrastructure and some social safety nets to bring home just how little help they offer. 

I think Jill is handing out those snacks just to be sociable with the people who already have the same religious beliefs that she has.

"Israel and I (Jill) have enjoyed fellowshipping with the local believers at the almost nightly church services. Israel easily makes lots of friends and since we live in a tropical area, they are so sweet to share their fresh produce with us (jocotes, avocados, mangos, bananas etc.)."

Jill seems to receive much more than she gives.

She and Derick hang out at a local, established  church where people come to hear the local, Spanish speaking pastor.  Jill and Derick really have nothing to do there when they are not hosting an S.O.S. tourist group.

[DangerousMinds]

How can they be sure that the local Spanish-speaking pastor is really saying the "right" things if they can't understand him?

[kalamac]

"Dios dice que no seas como la familia con el gigante bebé blanco"

[Sew Sumi]

@kalamac You win the interwebz today! 

[Zahdii]

13 hours ago, kalamac said:

"Dios dice que no seas como la familia con el gigante bebé blanco"

God says do not be like the family with the giant white baby?

[JoanArc]

3 hours ago, Zahdii said:

God says do not be like the family with the giant white baby?

No..."lets troll the fuck out of these dumb Gringos. Tell her the banana bread is good! And such huge portions!"

 

Over a year and they're not fluent. Damn.

[Jynnan tonnix]

52 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

No..."lets troll the fuck out of these dumb Gringos. Tell her the banana bread is good! And such huge portions!"

 

Over a year and they're not fluent. Damn.

Did it say anything specifically about their fluency? I just skimmed it and don't feel like looking back at it again...I suppose it could vary a lot depending on how much work they actually put into learning and whether they have any natural aptitude for language. I suspect the answer to both those questions is "little to none", but in that case, why in the world would they feel that's what god is calling them to do?

Many people don't ever become fluent in a language even after moving into another country/culture for some length of time. I know quite a few people in Polish communities here who never learn more than the most rudimentary English, even after 40 or more years. But then, again, they are not trying to make a living in fields where communication with the native population is paramount.

[GeeGolly]

4 hours ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

Did it say anything specifically about their fluency? I just skimmed it and don't feel like looking back at it again...I suppose it could vary a lot depending on how much work they actually put into learning and whether they have any natural aptitude for language. I suspect the answer to both those questions is "little to none", but in that case, why in the world would they feel that's what god is calling them to do?

Many people don't ever become fluent in a language even after moving into another country/culture for some length of time. I know quite a few people in Polish communities here who never learn more than the most rudimentary English, even after 40 or more years. But then, again, they are not trying to make a living in fields where communication with the native population is paramount.

I haven't heard about any updates on their language skills, so I'm assuming there is nothing to update.

I'm guessing this was Jill and her fairy tale thinking again - "I'm going to take a month of lessons and be fluent in Spanish!". Two years later and she probably can do little more than greet folks in Spanish.

[Churchhoney]

4 hours ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

Did it say anything specifically about their fluency? I just skimmed it and don't feel like looking back at it again...I suppose it could vary a lot depending on how much work they actually put into learning and whether they have any natural aptitude for language. I suspect the answer to both those questions is "little to none", but in that case, why in the world would they feel that's what god is calling them to do?

 

Well, isn't the whole crew massively infected with anti-intellectualism (combined with laziness and lack of education, I guess) that leaves them not really thinking about anything?

I mean, their belief system actually tells them that when the word of God comes into your heart, that's what you listen to. And that trying to think that through or use research to figure out whether it's really the word of God, or something, is a very bad, faithless, ungodly and sinful thing to do. That's kind of a bedrock principle of their religion, I believe. And then it's greatly backed up by the psychology and traditions of Jill's family.

So every time we ask, "Don't they think???!!! What they're doing is so illogical!!!!"       I'm guessing the answer is, "No. And if they did think much, they'd actually believe themselves to be bad Christians." 

I realize that sounds stupid. But I think it's the case. 

[ariel]

23 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

 

I'm guessing this was Jill and her fairy tale thinking again - "I'm going to take a month of lessons and be fluent in Spanish!". Two years later and she probably can do little more than greet folks in Spanish.

I wondering if Jill can even greet people in proper English.

[kalamac]

Didn't Jill also have Spanish lessons with Marjorie's mother back in the day? If she couldn't learn then, and immersion in a Spanish speaking country, where she's also having lessons hasn't worked, I'm guessing she's one of those people that just can't hang onto a second language. Maybe not being able to learn the language is God trying to give them a sign that they should stay in America and get actual jobs.

Edited April 11, 2017 by kalamac

[cmr2014]

1 hour ago, kalamac said:

Didn't Jill also have Spanish lessons with Marjorie's mother back in the day? If she couldn't learn then, and immersion in a Spanish speaking country, where she's also having lessons hasn't worked, I'm guessing she's one of those people that just can't hang onto a second language. Maybe not being able to learn the language is God trying to give them a sign that they should stay in America and get actual jobs.

I've said this before, but for people who believe that God is in constant communication with them, they really don't seem to listen to the things that God actually tells them.

If you don't really like kids, and having half a dozen of them causes you to have a nervous breakdown, maybe God is telling you to STOP HAVING CHILDREN -- it's at least worth thinking about, right?

If you can't learn a foreign language, and you don't like living in a foreign country, and you aren't really interested in helping other people, then maybe God is saying that the MISSIONARY LIFE ISN'T FOR YOU. it's not that complicated, and God is not being super-subtle here. Why not just listen?

[SnarkyShark]

33 minutes ago, cmr2014 said:

Why not just listen?

I would guess because God only tells them what they want to hear. They supposedly live a godly lifestyle, so why would God be telling them to change??? Gothardism seems to try to stamp out critical thinking abilities, so I doubt any of them think critically about what God is saying.

[Temperance]

On 4/9/2017 at 7:44 PM, kalamac said:

"Dios dice que no seas como la familia con el gigante bebé blanco"

When I typed it into google (for a translation), it got mixed up  somehow and said "Do not be like the giant white family with the baby." 

Edited April 11, 2017 by Temperance

[JoanArc]

9 hours ago, Temperance said:

When I typed it into google (for a translation), it got mixed up  somehow and said "Do not be like the giant white family with the baby." 

That...still works.

[Churchhoney]

16 hours ago, cmr2014 said:

I've said this before, but for people who believe that God is in constant communication with them, they really don't seem to listen to the things that God actually tells them.

If you don't really like kids, and having half a dozen of them causes you to have a nervous breakdown, maybe God is telling you to STOP HAVING CHILDREN -- it's at least worth thinking about, right?

If you can't learn a foreign language, and you don't like living in a foreign country, and you aren't really interested in helping other people, then maybe God is saying that the MISSIONARY LIFE ISN'T FOR YOU. it's not that complicated, and God is not being super-subtle here. Why not just listen?

You can also see this as a test, though, which I think is more in line with the way they view religion. They get it into their heads "We should be missionaries!" And that sounds like something God would say -- so they believe that it's God saying it. .... I mean, it's definitely the kind of thing that God said a lot to various people in the Bible and to missionaries and other religious people they've heard and read about -- Go out into all the nations and bring all men to Me! Etc. 

And then what happened to those people? Well, very few of them had it easy. Biblical prophets and apostles and such were always finding horrible obstacles placed in their paths. "Build a humungous ark!" "Oh, I don't want to do it!" "Here's a big knife, Abraham. Sacrifice your son, Isaac, to me or it's all over between us!" "Aaaaargh!"  Big travails have always struck these people who are sent on God's business .... And what the stories say is -- Those are trials that test your faith in the Lord. So you have to go through those trials to be godly and faithful, even if the trials don't make any sense and make it seem as if you should turn back. 

That's the arc of all the stories. And I'm pretty sure that's what they see when they're struggling with what to us is their apparent inability to do this. They live by the myth that God literally speaks to you; that there are certain things that God is most likely to say -- 'Go and tell everybody on earth about me' being perhaps thing one of those. And then things happen that make it seem impossible for you to do it and that make it seem as if you're unfit to do it and as if God may actually be telling you to turn back. ............But .... in the stories they live by, you're not ever supposed to turn back from following that initial impetus from God. Everything else is a trial and a test -- because God and the devil both, probably, send those trials and tests to God's faithful. And God's real faithful just slog on through the trials and the tests, following God's command. Even if they end up in the belly of a whale or something. 

Finding it near-impossible to learn Spanish? Being scared of where you are? Those are trials and tests and the faithful slog on through them. ..... Reason may suggest that they're signs you should turn back. But reason itself is a liar and an impediment to true faith -- an impediment to attaining heaven, in their world. 

They're just living out the myth that they all live by, as far as I can see. (Plus I think Derick would like to stay away from the Duggar compound. heh. Not that I'd blame him for that, actually.)

 

EMLTA: I don't mean "myth" as a negative thing, really. Living by myths is kind of the human condition, though the myths vary in effect and in relationship to the "real" world, I guess.

Edited April 11, 2017 by Churchhoney

[mythoughtis]

Derek is perfectly happy being a missionary. He'd love using his college degree and bring a real one. Its' Jill who has discovered adulting in the real world is hard, and doing it in a foreign country is too much. However she's been raised to believe the man is the head of the household, so she won't express herself to him, Derek is not a mindreader. This is partly Jim Bobs fault. He didn't know his own daughter well enough to laugh the' I want to be a missionary' off and went and picked out a guy that truly wanted to be a missionary. 

[Ripley68]

Churchhoney:  That was a very good explanation, I never thought of it that way.  I'll try to be more...open minded in the future about their problems. The "praise Jesus" that gets me though are the ones like Josie - Our prayers to God saved her.  Um...no....the jillion dollar NICU and its staff saved her.  The medicine and Science used there saved her.  I have a co-worker who used in-vitro to have her 2 kids, and constantly says it was through God's grace that she had them.  That one REALLY gets to me.  The way I see it, God was saying you can't have kids - you than went to a fertility specialist and used science to have children.

While Jill may see her issues as tests from God, she needs to put forth some effort to overcome them, which is what I don't see. I keep hoping in the back of my mind that they really are helping those in DA, building houses, wells and stuff like that; they just are being humble and don't want it filmed or shown.  I know that really isn't the case....but I keep hoping.

[Catfin]

2 hours ago, Ripley68 said:

Churchhoney:  That was a very good explanation, I never thought of it that way.  I'll try to be more...open minded in the future about their problems. The "praise Jesus" that gets me though are the ones like Josie - Our prayers to God saved her.  Um...no....the jillion dollar NICU and its staff saved her.  The medicine and Science used there saved her.  I have a co-worker who used in-vitro to have her 2 kids, and constantly says it was through God's grace that she had them.  That one REALLY gets to me.  The way I see it, God was saying you can't have kids - you than went to a fertility specialist and used science to have children.

While Jill may see her issues as tests from God, she needs to put forth some effort to overcome them, which is what I don't see. I keep hoping in the back of my mind that they really are helping those in DA, building houses, wells and stuff like that; they just are being humble and don't want it filmed or shown.  I know that really isn't the case....but I keep hoping.

And why can't there be an acknowledgment that God gave man science and brains to figure out how to save micro-preemies, address infertility or treat/cure people with cancer? That is the disconnect I just don't get. 

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, Catfin said:

And why can't there be an acknowledgment that God gave man science and brains to figure out how to save micro-preemies, address infertility or treat/cure people with cancer? That is the disconnect I just don't get. 

Exactly.  I once took care of a woman, deeply religious and whose faith involved avoiding standard medical care and praying instead.  She had a seizure in a public place and EMT's were called and brought her to the hospital.  She had a life threatening pregnancy complication and it turned out she had a chronic health problem that predated her pregnancy for which she declined to take medication that had been prescribed.  She kept telling me that to participate in traditional medical care would be a sign that she didn't have faith in God to heal her without it.  I pointed out to her that I had faith in God, too, and I often thanked Him for giving me the chance to use my skills to help sick people; that I liked to think that God worked through me and others to do His healing.

BTW, she did allow me to care for her in the hospital, although her husband objected strenuously throughout. He brought their minister to the hospital to conduct a healing prayer service at the bedside, though (I wasn't there, don't know any details).  She and her healthy baby left the hospital a few days later; she was given prescriptions and a follow up appointment with me.  I never saw her again.

Edited April 12, 2017 by doodlebug

[Churchhoney]

2 hours ago, Catfin said:

And why can't there be an acknowledgment that God gave man science and brains to figure out how to save micro-preemies, address infertility or treat/cure people with cancer? That is the disconnect I just don't get. 

Well, the thing is that there's quite a bit of -- particularly -- American theology that stresses like crazy the idea that the only basis for true knowledge and understanding -- of any kind -- is the bedrock truth of the inerrant Bible. And I do think that that's what the Duggars and their hangers-on think they believe.

So those doctors and scientists are okay if and only if they happen to be people who base their lives on that inerrant truth, reject everything that "conflicts" with it, and just happen to have some science and medicine (or whatever) as icing on that biblically inerrant cake. So they wouldn't praise doctors and scientists, no matter what -- because they might be praising people who didn't do things this way. And those people are utterly misled and damned and should not be encouraged in their wrongheadedness but encouraged to renounce their ways. And if the doctors and scientists who've helped them also happened to embrace the same kind of theology the Duggs do, then, just like the Duggs, they'll know that it's not the science that helped -- it's Christ and his biblical truth that they''ve based their lives on that really helped.

A whole lot of the fundiest homeschooling material is based on that type of Christian thinking, for example. So I'm pretty sure it's been all over the Duggar home.

And these are not smart people or intellectually curious people or active-minded non-lazy people in any way. So I think it's pretty clear that, having heard that set of ideas, they're going to accept it, and accept it in the most literal, laziest-minded way possible. Which of course guarantees that they'll embrace it when it's convenient and easy for them to do so and conveniently ignore it at other times. That's why we all are always finding hypocrisy all over them.

But ... it's not as if the Duggars invented this stuff or are the only people who believe it or are uniquely jerky in these ways. They're very very similar to a lot of other people with similar beliefs. .... That's all I'm ever trying to point out. In my opinion, It's not that -- "Jill's a horrible hypocritical jerk! Why doesn't she BLAH BLAH BLAH??" As if it's some kind of individual failure on her part. She's a probably fairly dumb, doofus-y and quite obedient and malleable person who's been led down this particular garden path -- shoved down it, actually, by a family, a cult, and a culture that all embrace and loudly promote as gospel, so to speak, the dumb ways of viewing life that it's easy to condemn her (and the other kids) for.           

I certainly don't think they're right in this kind of thinking. But I also think that if you're a malleable person of average to below-average intelligence (and that's half of us!), you're pretty likely to do the kinds of things she does if you're raised in the belief system she's been raised -- and very much isolated -- in. ... She's got a lot of wrongheaded approaches. But I think she comes by them honestly, is all. It's not just Jill. Or the Duggars. It's millions of people who believe just what they do. ....

Edited April 12, 2017 by Churchhoney

[Catfin]

You're right Churchhoney.  People that haven't developed critical thinking skills make good blind followers. 

[Churchhoney]

40 minutes ago, Catfin said:

You're right Churchhoney.  People that haven't developed critical thinking skills make good blind followers. 

Yep, they sure do. But of course the Duggar kids have pretty much been forcibly prevented from learning critical thinking skills. With physical and emotional force. Daily for decades. And I'm pretty sure that most of them aren't too bright by nature, either. So I'll continue to say that maybe they aren't wholly responsible for the extreme errors in their thinking! 

[doodlebug]

18 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Well, the thing is that there's quite a bit of -- particularly -- American theology that stresses like crazy the idea that the only basis for true knowledge and understanding -- of any kind -- is the bedrock truth of the inerrant Bible. And I do think that that's what the Duggars and their hangers-on think they believe.

So those doctors and scientists are okay if and only if they happen to be people who base their lives on that inerrant truth, reject everything that "conflicts" with it, and just happen to have some science and medicine (or whatever) as icing on that biblically inerrant cake.

Yup, and this sort of thinking is the kind of stuff that leads to oxymorons like 'Creation Science' and places like the Ark Experience and Creation Museum advertising themselves as centers for science education.  Because to believe in things like evolution or that some of the stories in the Bible are more fable than literal fact is to deny God entirely in their world.  It's also how you get people like a neurosurgeon who is also a fundamentalist Christian declaring that the pyramids were built to store grain to prepare for the famine predicted in Joseph's dream despite the fact that there isn't even anyplace in the pyramids where grain COULD be stored, let alone any evidence that it ever happened.  This denial of anything but the Bible (or other religious tracts in other faiths) as factual and undeniable has held civilization back for centuries and continues to do so for some people today.

ETA: I have a colleague, a very fine nurse, who is also evangelical.  She went to the Creation Museum while on vacation and posted long screeds on FB about how wonderful it was to FINALLY have a museum that told the truth!  How she wished this place had been around when her kids were young instead of those awful museums of natural science with their lies about dinosaurs and fossils and evolution!  She's otherwise a perfectly nice individual but there is no discussion with her about these subjects.

Edited April 13, 2017 by doodlebug

[Christina87]

20 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Exactly.  I once took care of a woman, deeply religious and whose faith involved avoiding standard medical care and praying instead.  She had a seizure in a public place and EMT's were called and brought her to the hospital.  She had a life threatening pregnancy complication and it turned out she had a chronic health problem that predated her pregnancy for which she declined to take medication that had been prescribed.  She kept telling me that to participate in traditional medical care would be a sign that she didn't have faith in God to heal her without it.  I pointed out to her that I had faith in God, too, and I often thanked Him for giving me the chance to use my skills to help sick people; that I liked to think that God worked through me and others to do His healing.

BTW, she did allow me to care for her in the hospital, although her husband objected strenuously throughout. He brought their minister to the hospital to conduct a healing prayer service at the bedside, though (I wasn't there, don't know any details).  She and her healthy baby left the hospital a few days later; she was given prescriptions and a follow up appointment with me.  I never saw her again.

This reminds me of a fundie family I grew up around. They were exactly like the duggars, but the dad was a doctor. Supposedly, he wouldn't treat people with a life-threatening disease like cancer, because it was god's will that they die. Can he even do that? I always wondered how he didn't get lawsuits left and right. 

[doodlebug]

26 minutes ago, Christina87 said:

This reminds me of a fundie family I grew up around. They were exactly like the duggars, but the dad was a doctor. Supposedly, he wouldn't treat people with a life-threatening disease like cancer, because it was god's will that they die. Can he even do that? I always wondered how he didn't get lawsuits left and right. 

A doctor can decline to treat a patient for a lot of reasons, but medical ethics does dictate that he/she refer the patient elsewhere.  For example, I am a gyn but I do not perform abortions for personal reasons (as opposed to refusing to do open heart surgery because I am not qualified).  If a patient comes to me asking for an abortion; I tell her I don't do them (only tell her why if she asks; it's not about me); I then ask if she's aware of her options (yes, I have resources for pregnancy support and adoption on hand if requested) and then tell her of several places nearby where the services she wants are available.  I also let her know I'd be happy to see her for any follow up care afterwards.

Unless the doctor in question was an oncologist (cancer specialist), it's unlikely he ever was called upon to provide care for the cancer itself.  Any doctor can dismiss a patient from their practice for virtually any reason, but they are obliged to assist that patient in finding appropriate care elsewhere.  He/she is also required to provide any urgent care that patient might need until they can get in to see the new doctor.

Also, if this guy believes in God's will, what does he treat?  Isn't diabetes God's will, too?  And high blood pressure?  And thyroid disease?  What about appendicitis or strep throat?  Where do you draw that line?

Edited April 13, 2017 by doodlebug

[Christina87]

That is a really good question! Apparently he does family medicine, so I guess he wouldn't have life threatening situations left and right, but I wonder what he did in medical school, during his rotations! Did he basically say he refused all rotations except for family medicine? Also, what if someone truly had an emergency situation and he had to help?

i wonder why in the world (aside from the money, obviously, which gives him more common sense than derick or Ben) would someone of this belief system become a doctor?!

[bigskygirl]

Maybe he thought God wanted him to be a doctor, so he could help decide who lives and dies. It was a good thing Cathy did not go to him because it was God's will she died because she had cancer. I wonder how Derick, and Jill would have handled it. Would they have prayed for him and said we must get rid of the evilness in him or would they have believed he is speaking for God.

[Jynnan tonnix]

1 hour ago, bigskygirl said:

Maybe he thought God wanted him to be a doctor, so he could help decide who lives and dies. It was a good thing Cathy did not go to him because it was God's will she died because she had cancer. I wonder how Derick, and Jill would have handled it. Would they have prayed for him and said we must get rid of the evilness in him or would they have believed he is speaking for God.

So if someone goes to a doctor who treats their cancer successfully, God's will has been thwarted? Or does that mean that this particular person would have gone into spontaneous remission at some point with no treatment? Sorry, that's off topic...but I just can't figure out how these people keep their belief systems from imploding at some point.

[MargeGunderson]

@Jynnan tonnix, just forget all about logic, consistency, and critical thinking and you'll be fine (Duggar-fine, that is)!

[Ljohnson1987]

Jill is probably so jealous of this woman.

 

http://people.com/bodies/mom-11-lb-baby-without-epidural-at-home/

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, Ljohnson1987 said:

Jill is probably so jealous of this woman.

 

http://people.com/bodies/mom-11-lb-baby-without-epidural-at-home/

Sounds like the Duggar's kind of gal.  She had gestational diabetes, knew her baby was huge and stayed home anyway.  Not a lot of common sense there.  BTW, the biggest kid I've ever delivered weighted 12 lbs 5 oz.  No epidural, no pain meds.  However, he was born in a hospital.  That mom's labor was also less than 4 hours start to finish.  Some folks are born to birth babies.

[lookeyloo]

4 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

Sounds like the Duggar's kind of gal.  She had gestational diabetes, knew her baby was huge and stayed home anyway.  Not a lot of common sense there.  BTW, the biggest kid I've ever delivered weighted 12 lbs 5 oz.  No epidural, no pain meds.  However, he was born in a hospital.  That mom's labor was also less than 4 hours start to finish.  Some folks are born to birth babies.

Here is a true big baby story that none of the Duggars can claim. My father was born in 1920  at home with a midwife in attendance. He had a birth certificate (or a certificate can't remember) with a documented weight of 18 lbs. further corroborated by who turned out to be my maternal grandmother who had my normal size uncle at home with same midwife three weeks later. They took babies to same well baby clinic and my maternal grandmother said all the woman said "poor Mrs X having to deliver that baby". My father and my uncle turned out to be the same height as adults. 

[Heathen]

25 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

Sounds like the Duggar's kind of gal.  She had gestational diabetes, knew her baby was huge and stayed home anyway.  Not a lot of common sense there.  BTW, the biggest kid I've ever delivered weighted 12 lbs 5 oz.  No epidural, no pain meds.  However, he was born in a hospital.  That mom's labor was also less than 4 hours start to finish.  Some folks are born to birth babies.

And her "midwives" are of the same ilk as Jilly Dully. I knew before I even clicked on the link in the People article that they'd be CPMs with the same bullshit stories and bogus training. 

[louannems]

6 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Sounds like the Duggar's kind of gal.  She had gestational diabetes, knew her baby was huge and stayed home anyway.  Not a lot of common sense there.  BTW, the biggest kid I've ever delivered weighted 12 lbs 5 oz.  No epidural, no pain meds.  However, he was born in a hospital.  That mom's labor was also less than 4 hours start to finish.  Some folks are born to birth babies.

FWIW, the article did say the mom tested NEGATIVE for gestational diabetes.

[Sew Sumi]

Looks like Natalie is the natural, granola hippie type based on all of her tats. They didn't know the sex; I wonder how much pre-natal care she had? Although with two midwives on hand, I suspect that they just wanted the sex to be a surprise, and that she was being reasonably monitored...UNLIKE some we could name here. 

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, louannems said:

FWIW, the article did say the mom tested NEGATIVE for gestational diabetes.

Sorry, I misread that in my quick scan of the article although I would like to know what test she used and what criteria they followed.  Just because someone says they've been tested doesn't mean it was done with a legitimate test with a well researched profile. I've known some 'crunchy' lay midwives in my time who devise their own testing for gestational diabetes, or, if they do a test and it comes back positive, they tell the woman she can just repeat it until it is negative and they'll use the 'best' result.  No so scientific, in other words.

[ariel]

9 hours ago, Ljohnson1987 said:

Jill is probably so jealous of this woman.

 

http://people.com/bodies/mom-11-lb-baby-without-epidural-at-home/

Is that now a of badge of honor to give birth in a tacky swim pool with no pain killers?

[Zahdii]

Everything about that birth story annoyed the hell out of me.  The two midwives and an assistant, hubby with the stupid slouchy knit hat, the photographer, and the whole "I had a huge baby with no drugs!  In my own home!  Look at my pictures!  Women's bodies are incredible!" 

It screams "Look at me!" with a side order of "I'm better than you!"

Edited April 14, 2017 by Zahdii
Tried to post photo, but it was too big and I don't know how to reduce it

[Churchhoney]

18 hours ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

So if someone goes to a doctor who treats their cancer successfully, God's will has been thwarted? Or does that mean that this particular person would have gone into spontaneous remission at some point with no treatment? Sorry, that's off topic...but I just can't figure out how these people keep their belief systems from imploding at some point.

I'm pretty sure the belief systems do implode, for smarter people enmeshed in these things anyway. But in a lot of cases this just makes somebody pray harder to be accepting of God's will and commands and to help them figure out what those are. 

I mean, juggling this brand of religion with the world that's followed the Enlightenment has been and continues to be one of the key world problems of the 20th and now the 21st century, I think.

[LilJen]

Yeah, well, my body is incredible, too, and bore the brunt of pregnancy pretty well, but when it came to birthing the baby (yeah, I was ALL READY for my body to do its thing), baby had something else in mind--that is, losing her heartbeat every dang time I contracted. If I'd tried to deliver her vaginally, she'd be severely disabled or perhaps dead. Just because "women's bodies are incredible" doesn't mean that every birth can just magically happen without complications.

[Christina87]

I think most of these "look at me" women probably have accomplished nothing else in their lives, and this is their only chance to get some notoriety. We know Jilly Muffin has no accomplishments or talents, and can't read above a sixth grade level. Even someone like Jana who plays the piano well, has something going for her, or Jinger, who seems to be good at talking to people. Jill is literally good at nothing, so she thinks having a "look at me" birth story is her best shot at an accomplishment!

[queenanne]

On 4/12/2017 at 1:45 PM, doodlebug said:

Exactly.  I once took care of a woman, deeply religious and whose faith involved avoiding standard medical care and praying instead.  She had a seizure in a public place and EMT's were called and brought her to the hospital.  She had a life threatening pregnancy complication and it turned out she had a chronic health problem that predated her pregnancy for which she declined to take medication that had been prescribed.  She kept telling me that to participate in traditional medical care would be a sign that she didn't have faith in God to heal her without it.  I pointed out to her that I had faith in God, too, and I often thanked Him for giving me the chance to use my skills to help sick people; that I liked to think that God worked through me and others to do His healing.

BTW, she did allow me to care for her in the hospital, although her husband objected strenuously throughout. He brought their minister to the hospital to conduct a healing prayer service at the bedside, though (I wasn't there, don't know any details).  She and her healthy baby left the hospital a few days later; she was given prescriptions and a follow up appointment with me.  I never saw her again.

Don't these selfsame people tend to well and truly acknowledge that God doesn't answer all prayers, though?  The "yes/no/wait a while" principle?  I should think they'd have to because even they aren't stupid enough, and/or often cannot, deny the reality that some prayers aren't answered.  If they aren't cured without medical intervention for an imminently life-threatening condition, are they all prepared to up and say "oh well, God's will that I die!  Great and hunky-dory, guess i must be valueless to God!"?

[doodlebug]

4 hours ago, queenanne said:

Don't these selfsame people tend to well and truly acknowledge that God doesn't answer all prayers, though?  The "yes/no/wait a while" principle?  I should think they'd have to because even they aren't stupid enough, and/or often cannot, deny the reality that some prayers aren't answered.  If they aren't cured without medical intervention for an imminently life-threatening condition, are they all prepared to up and say "oh well, God's will that I die!  Great and hunky-dory, guess i must be valueless to God!"?

Yeah, but, remember, these folks are also convinced that they're on the direct path to heaven and that whatever comes after this life is far superior to this world; so its a win-win.  Either God heals them and they live or God wants them up in heaven with him and they die.

[EmeraldGirl]

I read someplace yesterday that the locals are calling the baby Samuelito (very Supreme Court justice-y). I guess they aren't going to play the mystery name game like Jessa. 

Decent name, no letter theme. I'm already calling him Big White Sammy (oh wait, that sounds like a sandwich).

Edited April 19, 2017 by EmeraldGirl

[Sew Sumi]

I think that came from the Dullard blog, which I refuse to promote or give hits to. 

DONATE BITCHES!!!!!

[Christina87]

They are literally doing nothing down there except for leading around spring breakers and baking cookies...nothing...

[louannems]

http://people.com/tv/jill-duggar-dillard-husband-derick-love-being-parents-far-from-mastering-it/

I really can't believe the Dullards are in People magazine again.  Derick claims that Izzy is manipulative!  And that his human nature is still there!  Oh, I feel so sorry for the way they are raising him!

[Sew Sumi]

They did that interview in January, concurrently with the TLC promo shoot to promote last season. I can see why they didn't release it until now; Jill was hiding a 3 month pregnancy under that jacket and was pretty well hidden in the promo pic from what I remember (I think Derick had his arms wrapped around her). 

Sneaky little fuckers, talk about manipulation! And Derick can take several seats and fuck off. Izzy's "human nature?" What else is he supposed to have, you dolt? You have it too, only yours is repellent to 99% of humanity.