Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[Missy Vixen]

 I really wish that Derrick would encourage her to take online core classes at a community college as well as her prerequisites for nursing school. She could work on a mother-baby floor assisting nurse midwives and providing postpartum care. If she wanted, she could eventually become a certified nurse midwife. It just seems that Jill would be more marketable as a missionary if she was a registered nurse (she could provide/aide with all sorts of care in the mission field besides births) or even a licensed practical nurse. Derrick has some real world experience. He'd probably be more likely to put this together than Jill.

 

It would be great if Jilly Muffin went to community college, but she would be taking so many remedial classes because of her experiences at the SOTDRT that it would be easy to drop out. After all, her job isn't to be a nurse or even a midwife. Her job is to get pregnant at the drop of a hat for the next 20 years. And I'm not sure derickdillard can overcome that programming even if he wants to. When the going gets tough (like it is right now), instead of doing something sane like finding another good job in a more populated area of the US/moving his wife and son away from the trainwreck at the TTH/enrolling Jill at the local community college to learn Spanish and start the pre-reqs for nursing or midwifery/calling a temporary halt to the breeding while they got on their feet personally and financially and made a plan, they started their "ministry". Has derickdillard considered that he could have achieved his goals with a couple of years' hard work and determination, and THEN left the US for the mission field? It's going to be much harder when he's financing all of this on his own.

 

Why do I think that the Dillards' actual job on the "mission field" is to be celebrity tour guides for SOS?

Like we've all asked before- what do Cathy & Dan think of all of this? I wonder if Cathy's husband could be the "insider family source" that's quoted in the magazine articles? If not, he should be- I would love to get his scoop on things.

I'm not a parent. I don't know his mother. It's hard to imagine, however, that his family is happy with what's going on. I would LOVE to know how they really feel about the Duggars, especially after the past four months or so.

I'm also very curious to know what derickdillard's brother thinks of all this as well.

[BitterApple]

I can't imagine Cathy is happy especially if she used her connections to get Derick a job at Wal-Mart. The guy was there less than a year and if he worked two full weeks without taking a day off I'll eat my hat.

[Churchhoney]

Like we've all asked before- what do Cathy & Dan think of all of this? I wonder if Cathy's husband could be the "insider family source" that's quoted in the magazine articles? If not, he should be- I would love to get his scoop on things.

 

Me, too. But he's probably too busy banging his head against the wall. I know I would be.

[Wellfleet]

If I was going into labor in El Salvador and my choices for people to attend the birth were Jill or some local woman who has delivered several of the village's children, I'm going to take the local midwife.

I wouldn't necessarily have said this before Jill gave birth to Izzy and how she handled that situation. That was all the advertisement I needed for how Jill would handle a birth - it would be all about her, not about the baby. Even with her own baby it was about trying to do it all herself. And if you can't do a good job with your own health and that of your own child, I'm not letting you near me.

I am sure there are some great non-nurse midwives out there, but I'm not confident Jill will ever be one. I really wish that Derrick would encourage her to take online core classes at a community college as well as her prerequisites for nursing school. She could work on a mother-baby floor assisting nurse midwives and providing postpartum care. If she wanted, she could eventually become a certified nurse midwife. It just seems that Jill would be more marketable as a missionary if she was a registered nurse (she could provide/aide with all sorts of care in the mission field besides births) or even a licensed practical nurse. Derrick has some real world experience. He'd probably be more likely to put this together than Jill.

(My son was delivered by a fantastic certified nurse midwife. She also did most of my prenatal care and my postpartum check-up. I had complications from the birth but it was not due to anything the nurse midwife did or didn't do. And another nurse midwife who relieved her on the mother/baby floor a few hours after the birth caught was going on when she checked on me and before it got any worse, thank goodness.)

 

Fully-agree. But my guess is that it's Gothardism that's limiting Jill to maternity care. If she was any other kind of a nurse or practitioner, there's always a chance she would have to provide care to men who were neither her husband or sons. I bet Gothard even has rules forbidding women from providing certain levels of health care for their own fathers or brothers. 

[BitterApple]

It wouldn't surprise me if such rules were in place. The Maxwell kid wanted to be an EMT but his father talked him out of it because *gasp* he might get assigned a female partner.

[leighdear]

Just out of curiosity, I looked up testing for "Certified Professional Midwives".  Loads of pay-for-prep programs, but I did find this example of free test questions.  No idea of the validity of these, or if they're even the type of testing Jilly Muffin is looking forward to.  Looks pretty clinical to me, but I have zero medical knowledge.  

http://www.dynamicpath.com/certified-professional-midwife/1

[Guest]

Just out of curiosity, I looked up testing for "Certified Professional Midwives".  Loads of pay-for-prep programs, but I did find this example of free test questions.  No idea of the validity of these, or if they're even the type of testing Jilly Muffin is looking forward to.  Looks pretty clinical to me, but I have zero medical knowledge.  

http://www.dynamicpath.com/certified-professional-midwife/1

 

I'm impressed that some of these questions deal with STDs. Hope Jill shares this info with Anna...

Edited September 12, 2015 by Guest

[Ljohnson1987]

I wonder what Dill are really doing in Central America. Besides using donation money for God knows what. Must be nice to leave the mission for a month to be with family. These people have no work ethic. Bet Derrick is regretting quitting Wal-Mart right about now.

Jill has been training to be a mdiwife since Josie was a baby. How long does it take? I think that's all for show.

[doodlebug]

Jill has been training to be a mdiwife since Josie was a baby. How long does it take? I think that's all for show

Certified Professional Midwives have very loose rules for their education.  It is possible to become a CPM by following another CPM around doing an 'apprenticeship' as Jill was presumably doing in Arkansas.  She would then take their certification exam and become a CPM if she passed.  There are also actual schools with classroom work as well as doing clinical work with other CPM's.  At the minimum, it looks like most structured programs are no more than a couple years long and result in a 'certificate' not a degree, since most CPM schools aren't affiliated with actual colleges or universities.  Jill has had more than enough time to become a CPM if she'd pursued it full time, which she obviously hasn't.  We also know that she hasn't really done any midwifery work in well over a year, that means she is probably pretty rusty (if she ever did develop those skills in the first place).  Maybe the reason she hasn't taken the boards yet is because she knows she wouldn't pass.  Or, maybe she has taken them and failed in the past. 

 

In contrast, CNM's, certified nurse midwives, have already got a Bachelor's in Registered Nursing before even starting training for CNM, which usually takes 2 years and results in a Master's degree since most CNM schools are university affiliated.  In addition, many CNM programs require applicants to have at least 2 years experience in women's health nursing (L&D nurse, postpartum or nursery, staff nurse in an OB/GYN or midwifery practice) before they can even apply to be a midwife.  So, a CNM has studied for at least 6 years before starting to work as a midwife and often already has plenty of experience in women's healthcare working as an RN.

 

What possible loose ends could Jill and Derick have that would require a monthlong stay in the US after less than 2 months in Central America?  Why would it make sense to go down there for such a short period before returning to the US for a prolonged stay?  Why wouldn't they have tied up the loose ends first?  Why wouldn't they have taken their language training well in advance of travelling down there?  What was the point of their stay, what did they accomplish in 2 months besides not a darned thing?  Once again, I can only speak for the evil Catholics, but one of the priests I know who is now down there on a 6 year assignment (the Church won't allow a lesser commitment) first spent several weeks of vacation time down there working as a volunteer over a couple year period to get a feel for the place.  When the bosses decided his Spanish skills weren't adequate for serving there, he spent 6 months in a Spanish immersion course in the US, affiliated with an actual university where there are actual college level courses designed for folks who will be living and working in Central and South America.  Of course, this particular priest already has a Master's degree (most priests do), so he was actually qualified for the course which Jill is not.

[CofCinci]

For those in the know, what's the CNM opinion of CPMs?

[DangerousMinds]

Is Jilly Muff still following Gothard even though she's married now and her headship is not Gothard?

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

Why do I think that the Dillards' actual job on the "mission field" is to be celebrity tour guides for SOS?

I've been suspecting this for quite a while as well. Their jobs may be to attract and then show around other young Americans who want to go on "missioncations" with Jill & Derrick for SOS.

[Guest]

For those in the know, what's the CNM opinion of CPMs?

 

I'm not in the know, but I'm guessing that they're probably highly annoyed that people with Jill's education and skill level are mistakenly thought to be one of them. 

 

Maybe the reason she hasn't taken the boards yet is because she knows she wouldn't pass.  Or, maybe she has taken them and failed in the past. 

 

I read on the NARM website that if candidates fail the exam, they can re-take it up to 4X a year for three years --12 times?!? -- before they have to submit additional paperwork to again be eligible for the test. I pray that there aren't people delivering babies who failed this test anywhere close to 12 times. 

[Churchhoney]

I'm impressed that some of these questions deal with STDs. Hope Jill shares this info with Anna...

 

The stuff that the test covers is in this NARM booklet, from pages 38 to 51. http://narm.org/pdffiles/CIB.pdf  It's a lot of stuff, and much of it is the same stuff a medically trained person would look at.

 

If Jill really learned all of it well enough to pass a test on it, took the information seriously, and got the practical observational and hands-on experience that's said to be required for certification, she really would know something and could potentially be useful to people. (She'd certainly be a lot more useful if she consulted with actual medically trained professionals like CNMs as well, of course.)

 

I honestly have difficulty seeing her truly mastering so much detailed information, though. Let alone being able to communicate clearly with pregnant women whose first language is Spanish. And because of her religious and cultural beliefs, I fear that she wouldn't be taking the biological information seriously enough but would have a tendency to act based on her ideology and misplaced faith rather than on the facts and the principles she should have learned. In any medical situation, there's tons of room for individual judgment, and even lots of MDs make ridiculous calls based on some bias that they have, so it would be hard to trust someone whose whole life is based on something other than reason and who's been taught to be proud of that fact.

 

Nevertheless, non-nurse midwives really are active around the globe and have been an important part of health care in many places forever -- and still are important. There are non-nurse midwives in pretty much all countries, and as far as I know most aren't loonies deranged by "faith" and a horror of science into disrespecting and disregarding biology, but conscientious people who keep on learning as much as they can so they can continue improving their work. In lots of places most births are, of necessity, going to occur outside of hospitals, and there's clearly a place for serious non-nurse midwives in those situations.

Edited September 13, 2015 by Churchhoney

[Wellfleet]

Certified Professional Midwives have very loose rules for their education.  It is possible to become a CPM by following another CPM around doing an 'apprenticeship' as Jill was presumably doing in Arkansas.  She would then take their certification exam and become a CPM if she passed.  There are also actual schools with classroom work as well as doing clinical work with other CPM's.  At the minimum, it looks like most structured programs are no more than a couple years long and result in a 'certificate' not a degree, since most CPM schools aren't affiliated with actual colleges or universities.  Jill has had more than enough time to become a CPM if she'd pursued it full time, which she obviously hasn't.  We also know that she hasn't really done any midwifery work in well over a year, that means she is probably pretty rusty (if she ever did develop those skills in the first place).  Maybe the reason she hasn't taken the boards yet is because she knows she wouldn't pass.  Or, maybe she has taken them and failed in the past. 

 

In contrast, CNM's, certified nurse midwives, have already got a Bachelor's in Registered Nursing before even starting training for CNM, which usually takes 2 years and results in a Master's degree since most CNM schools are university affiliated.  In addition, many CNM programs require applicants to have at least 2 years experience in women's health nursing (L&D nurse, postpartum or nursery, staff nurse in an OB/GYN or midwifery practice) before they can even apply to be a midwife.  So, a CNM has studied for at least 6 years before starting to work as a midwife and often already has plenty of experience in women's healthcare working as an RN.

 

What possible loose ends could Jill and Derick have that would require a monthlong stay in the US after less than 2 months in Central America?  Why would it make sense to go down there for such a short period before returning to the US for a prolonged stay?  Why wouldn't they have tied up the loose ends first?  Why wouldn't they have taken their language training well in advance of travelling down there?  What was the point of their stay, what did they accomplish in 2 months besides not a darned thing?  Once again, I can only speak for the evil Catholics, but one of the priests I know who is now down there on a 6 year assignment (the Church won't allow a lesser commitment) first spent several weeks of vacation time down there working as a volunteer over a couple year period to get a feel for the place.  When the bosses decided his Spanish skills weren't adequate for serving there, he spent 6 months in a Spanish immersion course in the US, affiliated with an actual university where there are actual college level courses designed for folks who will be living and working in Central and South America.  Of course, this particular priest already has a Master's degree (most priests do), so he was actually qualified for the course which Jill is not.

 

Needing a month to "take care of a few things" does sound excessive. My theory is that Jill is pregnant again, they're not raking in nearly what they need to make the whole deal profitable, and Derick is using the month to job-hunt. If he gets lucky and finds employment, they'll announce that, AND that the Muffin is with child, AND they won't be returning to Central America just now. If he doesn't get a job, of course they'll just announce that they're staying put until Baby 2 arrives. Over the years their stories will need to become more and more creative, until they figure out that just shutting up entirely is the best course of action. If they ever do. Of course, they'll have to stop holding their paws out for donations in that case.

[Seashell Lover]

Why is it whenever I see SOS MISSION I think it means Save Our

Scam?

[zenme]

Well, hopefully Jill doesn't get tested on percentages or fractions, because if so, she's screwed. 

[cmr2014]

I think that Jill and Derick have had some real troubles in their marriage already -- this is based, of course, on nothing more than my reading of the facial expressions of people I've seen on television a few times, but I'm tossing it out there.

 

As others have already noted, there were huge issues in the first year: Cathy's illness, Jill's immediate pregnancy followed by months of serious morning sickness, Derick working and not spending every second with Jilly-muffin. Jill's difficult delivery, the Josh scandal, etc.

 

I think that Derick took the SOS missionary position (sorry) before he quit/was fire from WalMart simply to get away from the TTH. I think that as another poster mentioned, both Jill and Derick had very romatic visions of their "love story" and the reality of married life has been eye-opening. I think that Jill expected to be very much in control of the relationship because she was the holder of the golden maritally consicrated vagina, and because she controlled the camera-time and therefore the money-making opportunities through JB. I think that Derick thought Jill was a shy. sheltered little Jesus-flower who would follow him anywhere the Lord called him. i don't think he had the slightest idea what he was walking into in the TTH, or how controlling JB was, or how needy and clingy Jill would be -- they barely knew each other.

 

The fact that they made their decision to leave Arkansas almost exactly one year after they were married suggests, to me, that they made some sort of agreement. "Your father said we could have the house for one year, so we will live here and appear in the show for a year and then we'll xxxxxx."

 

I think that what we're seeing right now is the push/pull of their relationship. Derick wants to be overseas (but Central America will do) and Jill wants to be in Arkansas. She went to Honduras because that's what her putative headship wants to do, but she is pushing hard to go back to Arkansas (my family needs me right now!).

 

i certainly hope that Jill isn't pregnant for any number of reasons, but I also kind of think that she isn't because I don't think that the two of them are in a baby-making place in their relationship.

 

ETA: There was talk on the boards back before Anna became pregnant with Meredith that Josh and Anna appeared to be developing a close relationship (after 5-6 years of marriage), and I don't think that Jill and Derick are anywhere close to that. I doubt that Jill is willing to talk to Derick about anything other than Jesus. "The Lord laid it on my heart to purpose to make corn flakes for breakfast!"

Edited September 13, 2015 by cmr2014

[NEGirl]

Why is it whenever I see SOS MISSION I think it means Save Our

Scam?

SeashellLover - LMAO !

 

cmr  - I so agree. I don't think Derick knew what he was getting into when he married Jill. They never had two minutes alone to talk to each other before they were married. Hopefully, Derick will win out on this one. As I have said before, I do not like their kind of missionary work, but at least it would get Jill out of the TTH and have a chance to live among normal people and hopefully experience the real world.

[riverblue22]

I don't think Jill is pregnant.  If she is committed to the midwife stuff she would be afraid morning sickness would interfere with her studying.  I must say, she looked terribly frumpy in that long black dress at the wedding.  It's like she has a 25 year old head on a 40 year old body. 

[JoanArc]

 

I doubt that Jill is willing to talk to Derick about anything other than Jesus. "The Lord laid it on my heart to purpose to make corn flakes for breakfast!"

This is true. It must be walking on eggshells being married to a Duggar. I do think, however, Joshgate I caused shit to get real - Derick probably didn't include Jesus in many of those conversations. The inevitable loss of fame/money now, in a year, or in five years will do away with a the holy talk. Jill will eventually become the powerless one in the relationship.

[3girlsforus]

 

Nevertheless, non-nurse midwives really are active around the globe and have been an important part of health care in many places forever -- and still are important. There are non-nurse midwives in pretty much all countries, and as far as I know most aren't loonies deranged by "faith" and a horror of science into disrespecting and disregarding biology, but conscientious people who keep on learning as much as they can so they can continue improving their work. In lots of places most births are, of necessity, going to occur outside of hospitals, and there's clearly a place for serious non-nurse midwives in those situations.

 

Absolutely. One really important thing to remember is that most countries where non-nurse midwives are predominant those women still have great respect for experience and training. They learn from other midwives and really respect that there is a lot to learn and it's a huge responsibility. Jill seems to think that having 18 siblings and attending a few births makes her an expert. 

[Wellfleet]

SeashellLover - LMAO !

 

cmr  - I so agree. I don't think Derick knew what he was getting into when he married Jill. They never had two minutes alone to talk to each other before they were married. Hopefully, Derick will win out on this one. As I have said before, I do not like their kind of missionary work, but at least it would get Jill out of the TTH and have a chance to live among normal people and hopefully experience the real world.

 

I think Derick had somewhat of an idea of what he was getting into. Unfortunately he was getting his information from Boob who, while definitely old enough to know better, was clearly NOT bright enough to recognize that Life doesn't always get those memos with Our Plans outlined on them. Maybe Derick has figured it out on his own by now. If not, hopefully someone who loves him will be pointing it out.

[LilyoftheValley]

If you really think about it, Jill and Derick didn't really know each other before they got married.  They are probably just now getting to really know one another.  That can either be thrilling or horrifying.  We sometimes forget that when we all selected a spouse, we got to see how that person handled difficult situations.  Jill didn't get that.  She got it all at once though in Joshgate and who knows what Derick's reaction was?  

[BitterApple]

If you really think about it, Jill and Derick didn't really know each other before they got married. They are probably just now getting to really know one another. That can either be thrilling or horrifying. We sometimes forget that when we all selected a spouse, we got to see how that person handled difficult situations. Jill didn't get that. She got it all at once though in Joshgate and who knows what Derick's reaction was?

I agree and to be fair to Jill and Derick, having your brother exposed as a child molester on a worldwide stage is one hell of a doozy in terms of relationship tests.

[3girlsforus]

I agree and to be fair to Jill and Derick, having your brother exposed as a child molester on a worldwide stage is one hell of a doozy in terms of relationship tests.

I agree - especially if Derick didn't already know

[cmr2014]

If you really think about it, Jill and Derick didn't really know each other before they got married.  They are probably just now getting to really know one another.  That can either be thrilling or horrifying.  We sometimes forget that when we all selected a spouse, we got to see how that person handled difficult situations.  Jill didn't get that.  She got it all at once though in Joshgate and who knows what Derick's reaction was?  

 

Who knows what Jill's reaction was?

 

My guess is that Derick was (rightly) shocked and appalled, and Jill became very defensive. Her family is perfect, her parents are perfect, it really wasn't a big deal, etc. I think that having Derick discover that her family's wholesome Christian image was a facade was a huge blow to Jill's sense of self-worth and her feelings of confidence and power in her relationship.

 

Personally, I think that the fact that Derick is encouraging her to finish her studies is a good thing. Having her own profession (however modest) gives her something of her own to be proud of. Actually going and living as a missionary in Central America gives her the opportunity to actually live her faith (even if SOS is the scam it appears to be, it is still a lot more real than laying around the TTH talking about Jesus 24/7).

[JoanArc]

 

Personally, I think that the fact that Derick is encouraging her to finish her studies is a good thing.

Now if he could just convince her that her studies are, well, shit, and that she needs REAL education, not Duggar facsimile.

[LilyoftheValley]

Who knows what Jill's reaction was?

 

My guess is that Derick was (rightly) shocked and appalled, and Jill became very defensive. Her family is perfect, her parents are perfect, it really wasn't a big deal, etc. I think that having Derick discover that her family's wholesome Christian image was a facade was a huge blow to Jill's sense of self-worth and her feelings of confidence and power in her relationship.

 

Personally, I think that the fact that Derick is encouraging her to finish her studies is a good thing. Having her own profession (however modest) gives her something of her own to be proud of. Actually going and living as a missionary in Central America gives her the opportunity to actually live her faith (even if SOS is the scam it appears to be, it is still a lot more real than laying around the TTH talking about Jesus 24/7).

I agree.  I don't think Derick really knew anything about it, and I would argue that it is none of his business unless one of his children spends the night at Josh's house or something like that.  Jill is a victim here.  But this is the problem with not really getting to know one another before marriage - you also skip getting to know their family.  I recall with one of my boyfriends, it took until about the 4th family get together before it struck me that I really did not care for his sister-in-law.  She was a nice enough person but the way she ran social event completely put me off.  Indeed I did not like his entire family all that much.  To me that was a huge deal when it came to us ever getting married.  I do not think that Derick thought any of that through at all.  He had the hots for Jill and that was that.  Well, now the reality sets in and I bet he is not happy at all.  I am assuming he does not want to live in a house Boob owns, and I do not blame him.  I am also guessing that he has decided that both he and Jill are going to need to find a way to earn a living independent of the Duggars.  Well, if he is not thinking that way then he is a great fool.  

[3girlsforus]

I disagree. I think it definitely was Derick's business to know prior to marriage (and I firmly believe he did not). Being molested as a child can affect your sexual life as an adult. If you are going to marry someone they need to know what happened to you.

[Churchhoney]

I disagree. I think it definitely was Derick's business to know prior to marriage (and I firmly believe he did not). Being molested as a child can affect your sexual life as an adult. If you are going to marry someone they need to know what happened to you.

 

I agree with this. And since the Duggars had busily convinced their daughters that the incident didn't really affect anything -- except whether your kids could play hide and seek or not -- I expect that Jill didn't mention it to Derick. They were practically strangers and this was, in Duggar world, a totally meaningless incident that was years in the past. Combine that fact with the whole taboo on sexuality thing, and I can't really imagine Jilly Muffin telling him during their courtship -- whether or not she treated courtship as a time to "ask all of those tough questions" that they go on about. I expect that the whole family's response to the Josh revelations came as rather a thunderclap to Derick, Ben and their families.

[3girlsforus]

Exactly Churchhoney. I am sure JB/Michele didn't take it upon themselves to either tell Derick or his family or encourage Jill to do so. They aren't stupid and know telling Derick would risk people finding out and would risk what ultimately happened. And I can't see Jill trying to evade the chaperones long enough to have a real talk about it. Most victims of sexual abuse have shame and embarrassment about it. Because of their 'courting', they never developed that emotional intimacy where Jill would feel safe and comfortable talking with Derick about it. Courting just doesn't allow that. It's possible they hadn't even developed that kind of relationship by the time it was made public. Just because they made a baby doesn't mean they have a real intimate relationship. Talk about being thrown into the deep end. I suspect they have some rough roads ahead. 

[ChocolateAddict]

To be fair to Jill, I don't know how she would have told Derrick given that they were "chaperoned" through their entire relationship.  It would be hard enough to bring up "Oh by the way Derrick, Josh molested me and my sisters when we were little", let alone with an audience.  She wouldn't have been able to talk about it in front of the Howlers, it would probably be too awkward in front of the other girls and MeChelle and Boob would have made it all about them.  M&B would have spun it into how well they responded to Satan's influence in their home, they dealt with it so, so, so well and did we tell you about how CPS were impressed with us? It would have meant escaping from the cameras and risking losing the courtship so Jill probably justified it as "not a big deal" again and just never mentioned it.  

[Patricia07]

It may never have occurred to Jill to tell Derick.

[Julia]

To be fair to Jill, I don't know how she would have told Derrick given that they were "chaperoned" through their entire relationship.  It would be hard enough to bring up "Oh by the way Derrick, Josh molested me and my sisters when we were little", let alone with an audience.  She wouldn't have been able to talk about it in front of the Howlers, it would probably be too awkward in front of the other girls and MeChelle and Boob would have made it all about them.  M&B would have spun it into how well they responded to Satan's influence in their home, they dealt with it so, so, so well and did we tell you about how CPS were impressed with us? It would have meant escaping from the cameras and risking losing the courtship so Jill probably justified it as "not a big deal" again and just never mentioned it.  

 

I think he had a right to know, but considering that she's spent her whole life since being taught that she's a broken bike with prechewed gum on the tires and a cup of warm spit in the basket because she defrauded her brother into almost destroying not just everything her family has but God's plan to use them as Gothard's little sunbeam, it's hard to blame her for not telling him.

[CofCinci]

It may never have occurred to Jill to tell Derick.

Up until the moment they pulled away from the parking lot/reception, she never had a moment alone with him to even discuss it.  It's probably why the family has a chaperone policy --- so you don't tell anyone about the family scandals.

[GeeGolly]

The molestation is Jill's private information. She is not obligated to tell anyone.

[3girlsforus]

To be fair to Jill, I don't know how she would have told Derrick given that they were "chaperoned" through their entire relationship.  It would be hard enough to bring up "Oh by the way Derrick, Josh molested me and my sisters when we were little", let alone with an audience.  She wouldn't have been able to talk about it in front of the Howlers, it would probably be too awkward in front of the other girls and MeChelle and Boob would have made it all about them.  M&B would have spun it into how well they responded to Satan's influence in their home, they dealt with it so, so, so well and did we tell you about how CPS were impressed with us? It would have meant escaping from the cameras and risking losing the courtship so Jill probably justified it as "not a big deal" again and just never mentioned it.  

 

I definitely don't blame Jill for not telling Derick. How on earth could she have? I blame JB/Michele for ignoring the effect something like that would have on her and insisting she marry someone she has never even talked to alone. Nothing like setting a time bomb to go off in the middle of a marriage.

[Julia]

I definitely don't blame Jill for not telling Derick. How on earth could she have? I blame JB/Michele for ignoring the effect something like that would have on her and insisting she marry someone she has never even talked to alone. Nothing like setting a time bomb to go off in the middle of a marriage.

 

and honestly - and i do think better of Derick than this - if he actually was a Gothardite who bought into the cult he was marrying into, he was defrauded into marrying prechewed gum.

 

I hasten to say that I think way better of him than that, but given the internal logic of Gothard followers, Derick appears to have been seriously no lie trapped into marriage with someone who Jim Bob et al did not believe to be worthy of him, since Gothard holds that the molestation was her fault.

 

Just, I keep thinking there's a bottom, and they've reached it. And then I'm wrong.

[truthtalk2014]

Honestly,I don't think we need to worry. Jill will pray the baby out and convert the parents at the same time . PTL.

[Guest]

Setting aside whether Derrick had any "right" to know about the molestation pre-marriage, I think it is deeply unfortunate that potential marriage partners are not allowed the opportunity and the privacy to really get to know each other intimately before marriage. And I'm not talking about physical intimacy. I am talking about real emotional intimacy. And the sad thing is, I think JB and M do this by design. They don't want potential suitors to get an honest glimpse into their messed up family until they've already signed on the dotted line and they're married. Point of no return. You're stuck for life -- no matter what skeletons come tumbling out of the family closet.  

 

Plus, while I can understand JB and M's desire to get to know a potential suitor in a family context, I have to say that hanging out with parents and siblings is not an accurate sampling of a person's true character in private since they will be on their "company behavior," as my grandmother would say, in public and around family. 

[flyingdi]

Setting aside whether Derrick had any "right" to know about the molestation pre-marriage, I think it is deeply unfortunate that potential marriage partners are not allowed the opportunity and the privacy to really get to know each other intimately before marriage. And I'm not talking about physical intimacy. I am talking about real emotional intimacy. And the sad thing is, I think JB and M do this by design. They don't want potential suitors to get an honest glimpse into their messed up family until they've already signed on the dotted line and they're married. Point of no return. You're stuck for life -- no matter what skeletons come tumbling out of the family closet.  

 

Plus, while I can understand JB and M's desire to get to know a potential suitor in a family context, I have to say that hanging out with parents and siblings is not an accurate sampling of a person's true character in private since they will be on their "company behavior," as my grandmother would say, in public and around family.

The other side of this argument is that this could seriously backfire on the Duggars someday. Some spouse, even a Christian one, could theoretically say "This is not what I signed up for, I'm outta here." In that case all they would achieve is the embarrassment of their child.

[Fuzzysox]

It dawned on me that Jill's marriage is all about keeping the brand going not about Jill and Derick as real people to Boob and MeChelle.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Fuzzysox

[Churchhoney]

It dawned on me that Jill's marriage is all about keeping the brand going not about Jill and Derick as real people to Boob and MeChelle.

 

That's it all right.

 

Worse, I'd say that every single child, grandchild and spouse-of-a-child they have is about keeping the brand going. Marjorie and Josiah, for example, were entirely about keeping the brand going -- as they were trotted out as an obvious teaser for the (now thankfully nonexistent) next season. Those young kids being set up for this whole premarriage thing as a way to keep up interest in a tv show. Hideous.

 

It's horrifying to think about how they are willing to manipulate and even create human beings as nothing but ego projects. First, in the olden days, to boost JB as a political figure and then later to create and sustain the tv show. They oughta be locked up. And instead they've manipulated the kids so much that we see them thanking them for being so wonderful at parenting. Hopefully, that particular horror will end as the money runs out. (I can dream, can't I?)

[Guest]

The other side of this argument is that this could seriously backfire on the Duggars someday. Some spouse, even a Christian one, could theoretically say "This is not what I signed up for, I'm outta here." In that case all they would achieve is the embarrassment of their child.

 

THAT and/or given the quick pace at which courtships move, it would be very easy for a man with truly bad intentions to play Mr. Wholesome Christian for a few months to bag a submissive Duggar girl... and she wouldn't discover his true personality until she was finally alone with him as a married couple. Too late. 

Edited September 14, 2015 by Guest

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

THAT and/or given the quick pace at which courtships move, it would be very easy for a man with truly bad intentions to play Mr. Wholesome Christian for a few months to bag a submissive Duggar girl... and she wouldn't discover his true personality until she was finally alone with him as a married couple. Too late.

I'm worried this is going to happen to some of the remaining unmarried girls, particularly now that the cameras aren't around and the family has become less appealing to upstanding fundies since the Josh scandals have become public knowledge. People know that as time goes on JimBob's money will start to dwindle down. Some con-artist could very well try to get a piece of the Duggar money while it's still around and without marriage prospects for the girls (or I guess even the boys) from fundie families who now wouldn't want their kid to end up like Anna or hitch their wagon to the now-sullied Duggar name, the Duggars may very well end upunknowingly marry their kid off to someone who is just trying to get a piece of the remaining Duggar pie.

[doodlebug]

THAT and/or given the quick pace at which courtships move, it would be very easy for a man with truly bad intentions to play Mr. Wholesome Christian for a few months to bag a submissive Duggar girl... and she wouldn't discover his true personality until she was finally alone with him as a married couple. Too late. 

Sorta like what happened to Anna. 

[Guest]

Sorta like what happened to Anna. 

 

Exactly what happened to Anna, unfortunately. 

 

To bring it back to Derrick and Jill, I have some remaining faith in Derick. He got Jill away from her family in the only Gothard-approved way. However, only time will tell if he cracks under the enormous pressure of being a member of this family. 

[sometimesy]

It's interesting that they didn't tie up all the loose ends before leaving. They were asking for donations for a long mission trip, getting people to pay monthly as an option, so you would think all the things that needed to be completed would have been done before they left the first time.

 

If this midwife thing is legal in Arkansas, then it's reasonable for Jill to take advantage of it. She didn't make the rules on that one.

[MarysWetBar]

I agree with those that said Derrick didn't know. I think this past year has been way too much for Jill in every way. They are taught to keep that goddamned smile on at all times and to bury any bad feelings. She broke my heart in that last tell all episode and also when trotted out for the cover your brother's ass interview with Jessa. She has limited intellect and zero coping skills. .had a traumatic birth..I truly hope Derrick is steering the boat right now. Although i know he has his faults, I believe he loves her and truth be told, he is now responsible for caring for two children.

Edited September 14, 2015 by MarysWetBar