Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[AstridM]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

For sure. The same can be said for Cross Church.

Not nearly as bad, from what I’ve read. Do they still attend Cross Church?

[ginger90]

2 minutes ago, AstridM said:

Not nearly as bad, from what I’ve read. Do they still attend Cross Church?

They attend First Baptist Church Siloam Springs.

[sagittarius sue]

57 minutes ago, AstridM said:

Not nearly as bad, from what I’ve read. Do they still attend Cross Church?

Other churches, unlike Grace, don't have documented cases of abused women being told they have to live with their abusive husbands and being forced out of the church if they choose to leave or divorce their husbands. 

[Salacious Kitty]

1 hour ago, ginger90 said:

They attend First Baptist Church Siloam Springs.

I haven't been able to ascertain whether the new church is also Southern Baptist as Cross Church is. Anyone?

[Absolom]

48 minutes ago, sagittarius sue said:

Other churches, unlike Grace, don't have documented cases of abused women being told they have to live with their abusive husbands and being forced out of the church if they choose to leave or divorce their husbands. 

You might be shocked at how often pressure is brought to bear on the women to stay and how they are basically shunned and voluntarily leave churches.  The only reason my neighbor's daughter wasn't put in a bind was that the pastor ended up asking her husband to leave the church because he threatened the pastor not because he was abusive to his wife or kids.

[GeeGolly]

I don't think there is an organized religion free of misdoings. Starting with misogyny up to sexual assaults and everything in between. The issue with independent churches is they have little to no oversight, so much of what goes on doesn't spread far past the congregation.

There is a certain population of folks who want the 1950s to come back, they're everywhere and yes many hold Bibles.

And whether one church is 'worse' than another doesn't mean every member believes and behaves the same way. I'm sure there are plenty of conservative Christians who are secretly pro-choice and/or pro basic human rights.

My point with Jill and Jinger is although they have taken baby steps away from their family and Gothard, I see nothing to make me think Jill is farther along in this journey than Jinger.

[MaryAnneSpier]

7 hours ago, satrunrose said:

I don't think there are any absolute heroes or villains in the Duggar story (with the very possible exceptions of JB and Gothard in the villain roles). 

Michelle: Her religion literally teaches that if she started having a headache every night post baby #5 or sided with the kids against JB that she could be attacked by Satan in this world and the next. On the other hand, Gothardism never said she had to let the kids grow up feral/sister momed because their mother "didn't have a heart for children". Like-wise, I don't think it was JB who was keeping a public calendar to track prime baby-making season. 

Jeremy: Seems loving and supportive towards Jinger. Was the first to start tiptoeing away from the Duggar insanity. On the other hand, he's openly anti-social justice, he's totally tied into a church that is fervently against women in authority, he wanted a meek wife, he talks over Jinger and doesn't seem to value her opinions, he only seems to value her for her looks and occasional cooking ability, is about as deep as a puddle no matter how much he preaches. 

Derrick: He supports Jill. They do seem to love each other. He seems less attached to the whole headship vibe than a lot of his in-laws (I'm including Jeremy, Austin, Jed! and Anna in this). More progressive than Jill in some ways (evolution). His support helped to get Jill compensated for the fact that her parents made a lot of money from selling her childhood. He's not gaslighting her about the abuse she suffered. If that excerpt from the book is too be believed, he took Jill's cues and let her handle a really tough conversation with her dad independently (and honestly, I do give Derrick a fair bit of credit for this. Independence is not a word that can be applied to a single Duggar except for Jill, IMO). On the other hand: He attacked a teenaged girl and loving parents of young children on social media and there's no indication, including in Jill's book, that he has any misgivings about that. We know, at least at some points, that dubious elements of Duggar parenting have been copied by the Dillards. We don't know where the needle lies between Jill needing to write this book to heal and Derrick wanting to write this book for $$$. 

Taking reply to Duggalos thread

[Natalie68]

On 10/1/2023 at 8:31 AM, Laura Holt said:

Jill and Jinger are being very wise not to depend on the future inheritance. Partly because JimBob isn't exactly 90 and teetering on the brink but mainly because as you say I would wonder how much money that would actually amount to in the fullness of time.  He may be a shrewd investor sitting on millions - maybe - but even so split 19 ways it still isn't going to amount to an inheritance that would keep any of them on easy street.   

Or maybe there actually won't be an inheritance for the kids.  I think he TELLS them there will be to keep the desperate in line but I think there will be bupkis.

[ozziemom]

1 hour ago, Natalie68 said:

Or maybe there actually won't be an inheritance for the kids.  I think he TELLS them there will be to keep the desperate in line but I think there will be bupkis.

I think Boob is using the inheritance as one more thing used to hold control over his family. But by the time he and Meechelle both pass, there will be far too many mouths he’s had to feed for many years for there to be much left. 

[Natalie68]

34 minutes ago, ozziemom said:

I think Boob is using the inheritance as one more thing used to hold control over his family. But by the time he and Meechelle both pass, there will be far too many mouths he’s had to feed for many years for there to be much left. 

There will be some old Rodriguii tracts, packets of Chick Fil A salt , a ratty teasing comb and a chiclet left after they pass.

[Salacious Kitty]

1 hour ago, ozziemom said:

I think Boob is using the inheritance as one more thing used to hold control over his family. But by the time he and Meechelle both pass, there will be far too many mouths he’s had to feed for many years for there to be much left. 

I imagine some are pissed that all this money went down the drain trying to defend the FF. I think Boob is only feeding Anna and her kids, plus whatever adult males still eat at home, in addition to the minor girls. 

@Scarlett45 @deaja That reminds me, Hannie's 18th birthday is in a few days, the 11th according to fundie wiki. Needs to be moved over to the Lonely J's. 😀

Edited October 4, 2023 by Salacious Kitty
Added the mods

[AgathaC]

17 hours ago, ozziemom said:

I think Boob is using the inheritance as one more thing used to hold control over his family. But by the time he and Meechelle both pass, there will be far too many mouths he’s had to feed for many years for there to be much left. 

Reminds me of a family in my home town. They owned a very successful lumber business. For a couple of generations, things were great. But by the time generation 3 (the group my dad’s age) took over, there were way too many people trying to live off the business. The boys in the family had all been brought up and educated for that particular business. It went under and they all had to try to figure out new careers. Independence and diversity are good things. Eventually, money and incomes will have to stretch way too far to be practical.

[lascuba]

 

21 hours ago, Natalie68 said:

Or maybe there actually won't be an inheritance for the kids.  I think he TELLS them there will be to keep the desperate in line but I think there will be bupkis.

Is it normal for people to be swayed by this? I'm genuinely asking, because I don't come from a family where many people can hope to inherent anything valuable. We're not talking billions or even multi-millions...it would make sense for children from such families to "keep sweet" knowing they stand to inherent so much that their grandchildren won't have to work. But for people who would still have to work in some capacity if they inherent 1/19 of JB's wealth, can that really have much of a hold on anyone who would otherwise want to leave?

 

[CalicoKitty]

The kids are brainwashed to believe anything the "umbrella" says.  Gothard portrayed this utopia where everyone was protected, even financially, and everyone would be fine if you didn't rock the boat.  JB has invested in land and buildings, so, maybe, each kid will inherit their own lot and house.  But I do not think they will be "set for life" the way they think they will.  And a Duggar "electrician" is probably not very employable in the real world.  Although, I hear ads for jobs for "experienced or inexperienced electricians" on the radio frequently.  It is too bad the kids were not trained at a certified trade school.  They would not want for good paying jobs.  But that would make the kids independent in their own thoughts and lives, and JB and Gothard couldn't have that happen.  Those kids and their families are really in for a shock, I'm afraid.

[Natalie68]

33 minutes ago, lascuba said:

 

Is it normal for people to be swayed by this? I'm genuinely asking, because I don't come from a family where many people can hope to inherent anything valuable. We're not talking billions or even multi-millions...it would make sense for children from such families to "keep sweet" knowing they stand to inherent so much that their grandchildren won't have to work. But for people who would still have to work in some capacity if they inherent 1/19 of JB's wealth, can that really have much of a hold on anyone who would otherwise want to leave?

 

I would think that if you have no $ of your own, no education, are scared of the real world and you have been promised an inheritance, yeah.  

[crazy8s]

17 minutes ago, lascuba said:

Is it normal for people to be swayed by this? I'm genuinely asking, because I don't come from a family where many people can hope to inherent anything valuable. We're not talking billions or even multi-millions...it would make sense for children from such families to "keep sweet" knowing they stand to inherent so much that their grandchildren won't have to work. But for people who would still have to work in some capacity if they inherent 1/19 of JB's wealth, can that really have much of a hold on anyone who would otherwise want to leave?

I don't think they are expecting to inherit enough that they won't have to work. I do expect they are conditioned to work on Duggar time and I would guess they would like that to continue into the future.

It seems Jill mentioned the money situation worked a bit different for the boys because they were expected to support a family.

Duggar enterprises seem to be moving along with the Bella Vista house building. Buy cheap lots at auction, Jason builds a house, Joe sells it for $400,000 or more. Jeer and Nathan Bates charging up to $22,000 for flight training, Jed selling cars, rvs and sheds to whatever suckers will by them. Several of the guys have contractor's, pilot's, CDL or Real Estate licenses.

Anna, Jana, Joe, Jeer, Jason and James all seem to live on the TTH property in various buildings. John and Jed live in houses owned by JB. Jessa's is owned by the church, no mater what she claims. So no house payments or property taxes for them to pay.

If we are projecting possible inheritance on just the money from the show, I would agree it would probably not sustain the masses of Duggars. But JB has had years and years of squirreling away money and finding tax loopholes. He still owns a lot of properties. Also, there might be some amount he inherited from Mary.
 

 

 

[AgathaC]

4 hours ago, Natalie68 said:

I would think that if you have no $ of your own, no education, are scared of the real world and you have been promised an inheritance, yeah.  

Or if you’ve been trained to rely on it and never encouraged to be independent. There’s money in my family and my husband’s family, but we were both raised to work hard and support ourselves without counting on inheritance. Our retirement plan doesn’t include anything we might inherit so if we do get anything, it’ll just be a nice bonus. You never know what will happen to that family money you’re depending on. For instance, thousands upon thousands being thrown into the black hole that is your brother’s defense fund. On the other hand, I know a teen who’s being brought up in an environment of endless indulgence and not a lot of responsibility. He’s going to have a rude awakening when he realizes all those gifts his grandparents lavished on him were his inheritance and maybe he should have studied in school instead of constantly flirting with flunking out.

 

4 hours ago, crazy8s said:

I don't think they are expecting to inherit enough that they won't have to work. I do expect they are conditioned to work on Duggar time and I would guess they would like that to continue into the future.

 

 

I wouldn’t be surprised if they have no idea what reality will look like. I may very well be wrong, but it’s always seemed to me they’re trained to rely on ol’ Jim Boob. Do they really know what money there is? How to manage it? How to prop up their shady businesses? Maybe he has trained the boys in how to follow in his footsteps. But it all has the potential to crumble into a full-on shit show when JB and Meech shuffle on out.

[Absolom]

Jim Bob or Michelle could end up like my grandmother or my mother.  One spent over 10 years in various care facilities and the other required care in-home or a facility for almost twelve years.  Add to it my step-father had three years in a SNF.  Jim Bob could have a stroke and live, but require care for twenty years.  Although in that family it might serve him right if the uneducated kids decide they can take care of him Jill Rodrigues style.  

Edited October 6, 2023 by Absolom

[Salacious Kitty]

8 minutes ago, Absolom said:

Jim Bob or Michelle could end up like my grandmother or my mother.  One spent over 10 years in various care facilities and the other required care in-home or a facility for almost twelve years.  Add to it my step-father had three years in a SNF.  Jim Bob could have a stroke and live, but require care for twenty years.  Although in that family it might serve him right if the uneducated kids decide they can take care of him Jill Rodrigues style.  

That scenario is where Karma's a Bitch couldn't be more apt. 

[CalicoKitty]

1 hour ago, AgathaC said:

Or if you’ve been trained to rely on it and never encouraged to be independent. There’s money in my family and my husband’s family, but we were both raised to work hard and support ourselves without counting on inheritance. Our retirement plan doesn’t include anything we might inherit so if we do get anything, it’ll just be a nice bonus. You never know what will happen to that family money you’re depending on. For instance, thousands upon thousands being thrown into the black hole that is your brother’s defense fund. On the other hand, I know a teen who’s being brought up in an environment of endless indulgence and not a lot of responsibility. He’s going to have a rude awakening when he realizes all those gifts his grandparents lavished on him were his inheritance and maybe he should have studied in school instead of constantly flirting with flunking out.

 

I wouldn’t be surprised if they have no idea what reality will look like. I may very well be wrong, but it’s always seemed to me they’re trained to rely on ol’ Jim Boob. Do they really know what money there is? How to manage it? How to prop up their shady businesses? Maybe he has trained the boys in how to follow in his footsteps. But it all has the potential to crumble into a full-on shit show when JB and Meech shuffle on out.

Or, as happened with my dad, no one was overseeing his money, and as he aged he made some bad investments and lost a lot of money.  Luckily, someone stepped in before he invested any more.  But not everyone is fortunate enough to have a trusted person to oversee their money.  JB has a very high regard for himself, and I can see him making some bad investments as he gets older.  His "accountant" can make suggestions, but how his money is invested is his responsibility.  Enticing investments can go wrong very quickly.  I still say the kids are in for some bumpy times.

[ozziemom]

2 hours ago, Absolom said:

Jim Bob or Michelle could end up like my grandmother or my mother.  One spent over 10 years in various care facilities and the other required care in-home or a facility for almost twelve years.  Add to it my step-father had three years in a SNF.  Jim Bob could have a stroke and live, but require care for twenty years.  Although in that family it might serve him right if the uneducated kids decide they can take care of him Jill Rodrigues style.  

My dream is for Madyson to push JB around in an office chair just like they did to Boob’s father. 

[satrunrose]

I'm willing to bet that at least Anna, Jessa, Jana, the Lost Girls and Jackson are still getting most, if not all of their expenses covered by Jim Bob. 

For JD, Joe, Josiah and the Howlers, they may be drawing a salary from their own branches of Duggar Inc. but given the financial shenanigans Jill describes, I wouldn't be at all shocked if the money they make still goes to JB and then gets doled out. I say this particularly for the Howlers whose jobs seem to be building stuff for JB and moving cars. 

As for the inheritance, I'm assuming there are a few possibilities in play.

1- These kids are probably not that financially literate (see the tax fast one JB tried to pull). They may not know that 1/18th of JB's net worth isn't set for life kind of money. 

2- A windfall's a windfall. JD, for example, might be willing to avoid making waves if the inheritance will let him upgrade the planes. 

Edited October 6, 2023 by satrunrose

[GeeGolly]

Personally, I think any parent who holds an inheritance over a kid's head is an asshole, so that tracks with JB.

Did Jill & Derick give any indication in the book whether they thought they were giving up substantial money by going against JB's wishes?

[GeeGolly]

I see Jill's book has dropped to #9 on the NYT bestsellers list. Props for remaining in the top 10 after 3 weeks.

I mention this because I read an article about author profits. This article was about an author who was 85th on the USA today top 150 bestsellers, so its kind of apples and oranges, but their contract apparently was fairly close to some better established authors.

The article, which is based on the author's TikTok stories, explains they received $10,000 minus $1000 agent fee when they signed on with the publisher, with the agreement of another $10,000 on the publish date. It took the author a year to write the *book and then another year working with an editor on rewrites, when they then received the second installment of $10,000 minus $1000 agent fee. The author says that is when the waiting game begins. They will not make money until the book sales reach $20,000. The author did the TikTok to show for many authors being a full-time writer is unrealistic as they made $18,000 for two years of work.

Now Jill's book is obviously extra income, but based on what I read I'm wondering how much the Dillards will actually make, as it seems they are just 2 newly written books away from being knock off the top ten. I get that being on the NYT top 10 means way more in sales than the author I mentioned, but how much do you all think the book will make?

*sorry old brain, can't remember the book title, but I think the author's first name is Sim or maybe Simmi.

[Dehumidifier]

12 hours ago, ozziemom said:

My dream is for Madyson to push JB around in an office chair just like they did to Boob’s father. 

Why didn't the man's wife, daughter or granddaughter get him a wheelchair?

Possibilities: a) he refused to use one. b) he had one but refused to be on camera in one. 

[Absolom]

I always wondered why they didn't have Grandpa Duggar on hospice who would have provided all the equipment at no charge to the Duggars.  Maybe he didn't want to be on camera in a wheelchair, but why did they put him on camera to begin with?  Just like the kids to put money in JB's pocket?

[Dehumidifier]

8 minutes ago, Absolom said:

I always wondered why they didn't have Grandpa Duggar on hospice who would have provided all the equipment at no charge to the Duggars.  Maybe he didn't want to be on camera in a wheelchair, but why did they put him on camera to begin with?  Just like the kids to put money in JB's pocket?

Agree. Why didn't his wife stop it?

Edited October 6, 2023 by Dehumidifier

[AstridM]

1 hour ago, Dehumidifier said:

Why didn't the man's wife, daughter or granddaughter get him a wheelchair?

Possibilities: a) he refused to use one. b) he had one but refused to be on camera in one. 

What about all of the man’s grandSONS?

[Salacious Kitty]

37 minutes ago, AstridM said:

What about all of the man’s grandSONS?

JL died in 2009, IIRC. Only a couple grandsons would have been of age. 

[lascuba]

13 hours ago, satrunrose said:

I'm willing to bet that at least Anna, Jessa, Jana, the Lost Girls and Jackson are still getting most, if not all of their expenses covered by Jim Bob. 

For JD, Joe, Josiah and the Howlers, they may be drawing a salary from their own branches of Duggar Inc. but given the financial shenanigans Jill describes, I wouldn't be at all shocked if the money they make still goes to JB and then gets doled out. I say this particularly for the Howlers whose jobs seem to be building stuff for JB and moving cards. 

 

I'd be really surprised if JB were covering expenses for the married adults. If he refused to do it for Jill and Derick when she was still the golden child, why would he do it now when the show isn't at stake and 2 of his kids already wrote books criticizing him/his belief system? Any money he doles out would be a pittance in exchange for whatever work they do for him.

 

[AstridM]

1 hour ago, Salacious Kitty said:

JL died in 2009, IIRC. Only a couple grandsons would have been of age. 

Still, why push the responsibility onto women and girls?

[Salacious Kitty]

42 minutes ago, AstridM said:

Still, why push the responsibility onto women and girls?

Mary probably had the final call. But I imagine Boob was in her ear. 

[satrunrose]

3 hours ago, lascuba said:

I'd be really surprised if JB were covering expenses for the married adults. If he refused to do it for Jill and Derick when she was still the golden child, why would he do it now when the show isn't at stake and 2 of his kids already wrote books criticizing him/his belief system? Any money he doles out would be a pittance in exchange for whatever work they do for him.

 

My assumption was JB is trying to hold on to control and to keep any of the sons from realizing that they have better prospects getting some certification and maybe moving away from Duggarland.

Honestly, though, I think it's more a reasonable possibility for most of the marrieds rather than a certainty. The only ones I really suspect are relying on JB in some respects are Anna (because where else is the $$ going to come from for the next decade?) and Jessa (I can't quite see a teeny church paying enough to support all of them and their amazon habit, and there's never been any indication that Ben has a second job).

[Scarlett45]

8 hours ago, AstridM said:

Still, why push the responsibility onto women and girls?

Because caring for infants, elderly and disabled persons is still considered exclusively “women’s work” in the fundy world. 

[Dehumidifier]

8 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Because caring for infants, elderly and disabled persons is still considered exclusively “women’s work” in the fundy world. 

I am Catholic and only go to church for funerals.

As Salacious Kitty said, it was the wife's responsibility.

[ginger90]

23 hours ago, Absolom said:

I always wondered why they didn't have Grandpa Duggar on hospice

Stranger danger.

[skatelady]

On 10/6/2023 at 11:51 AM, Absolom said:

I always wondered why they didn't have Grandpa Duggar on hospice who would have provided all the equipment at no charge to the Duggars.  

Or maybe hospice wouldn't allow filming? 

[Salacious Kitty]

3 minutes ago, skatelady said:

Or maybe hospice wouldn't allow filming? 

True dat. JB totally exploited his father for ratings. Sick. 

[GeeGolly]

Kind of sad that in a room full of the right kind of Christians not one person came forward to either stop the heartless behavior, or at least smooth it over and show grandpa some respect and dignity.  

[Absolom]

48 minutes ago, skatelady said:

Or maybe hospice wouldn't allow filming? 

In-home hospice isn't there 24/7.  They drop by one to three times a week so wouldn't have any say in filming while the hospice worker isn't there.  

[Salacious Kitty]

24 minutes ago, Absolom said:

In-home hospice isn't there 24/7.  They drop by one to three times a week so wouldn't have any say in filming while the hospice worker isn't there.  

I recall my mother's in home hospice coming every day. Can't say for my dad, since they set up his space, but he died the next day. 

I don't believe JL had hospice. It wasn't mentioned in either of the Duggar tomes. I bet JB sees hospice as a weekness, an inability to take care of his family "in house."

Edited October 7, 2023 by Salacious Kitty

[Absolom]

1 hour ago, Salacious Kitty said:

I recall my mother's in home hospice coming every day. Can't say for my dad, since they set up his space, but he died the next day. 

I don't believe JL had hospice. It wasn't mentioned in either of the Duggar tomes. I bet JB sees hospice as a weekness, an inability to take care of his family "in house."

It varies depending on the medical condition and how close the person is to death.  The hospice nurse did check on my mom daily during her last week and we knew it was the last week.  Early on when she went on hospice it was once a week for only a brief visit.  JL looked like he was in the 1 to 3 visits a week stage to me when he was filmed.  

I wonder if the family is so isolated and lacking in education and knowledge that they didn't know about hospice.  Sometimes doctors don't bring it up until way late in the process if then.  

[Notabug]

20 hours ago, Absolom said:

It varies depending on the medical condition and how close the person is to death.  The hospice nurse did check on my mom daily during her last week and we knew it was the last week.  Early on when she went on hospice it was once a week for only a brief visit.  JL looked like he was in the 1 to 3 visits a week stage to me when he was filmed.  

I wonder if the family is so isolated and lacking in education and knowledge that they didn't know about hospice.  Sometimes doctors don't bring it up until way late in the process if then.  

I think there is almost no way they didn't know about hospice.  Didn't JB's father die of cancer?  Oncologists surely are well versed in end-of-life care and would have close ties to multiple options both at home and in a facility to care for the dying.  I've known quite a few oncologists; every single one had an employee in their practice, usually a nurse, whose main responsibility was to support the patient and family and offer assistance in various options for care as the need arose.  Even if they didn't ask, someone would've asked them.

At some point, I presume the decision was made that JB's father's condition was terminal and that no further treatment would be given to try to contain the tumor.  At that point, an end-of-life discussion with the medical caregivers is virtually mandatory at which time the needs and desires of the sick person and the family would be discussed.

I expect JB flatly refused to have a bunch of non-believer hospice workers hanging around the house.  Women wearing pants!  Taking care of his father's bodily functions!  Giving the girls ideas about careers and working outside the home!  Never.

JB probably figured there was a reason he had so many daughters in training to be keepers of the home and that, of course, they would care for his father.  That's the Gothard way.

Edited October 8, 2023 by Notabug

[Absolom]

All that is the way it should go.  However, JL died in Arkansas not that many years before my step-father died in Arkansas.  Step-dad had terminal cancer.  I asked the oncologist to let me know when it was time for hospice.  Want to know when his office called me?  Seven or eight days before step-dad died.  They had to have known months earlier that it was time.  Not all oncology practices are created equal.  I live out of state and I have to wonder if I hadn't expressed a wish for hospice if they would have brought it up.  

My mother going on hospice in California was a night and day experience.  I was asked in advance and she was evaluated at the first hint she was eligible.  It was a godsend.  

Edited October 8, 2023 by Absolom

[andromeda331]

9 hours ago, Notabug said:

I think there is almost no way they didn't know about hospice.  Didn't JB's father die of cancer?  Oncologists surely are well versed in end-of-life care and would have close ties to multiple options both at home and in a facility to care for the dying.  I've known quite a few oncologists; every single one had an employee in their practice, usually a nurse, whose main responsibility was to support the patient and family and offer assistance in various options for care as the need arose.  Even if they didn't ask, someone would've asked them.

At some point, I presume the decision was made that JB's father's condition was terminal and that no further treatment would be given to try to contain the tumor.  At that point, an end-of-life discussion with the medical caregivers is virtually mandatory at which time the needs and desires of the sick person and the family would be discussed.

I expect JB flatly refused to have a bunch of non-believer hospice workers hanging around the house.  Women wearing pants!  Taking care of his father's bodily functions!  Giving the girls ideas about careers and working outside the home!  Never.

JB probably figured there was a reason he had so many daughters in training to be keepers of the home and that, of course, they would care for his father.  That's the Gothard way.

Plus JB hated his father so he didn't care about the crappy treatment he got. I just hope JB gets the same crappy treatment or worse.

[satrunrose]

Given what an unreliable narrator JB is, I'd love to know the real story about his father. Was he really awful, or just, like us, a dedicated snarker who told his son what was what?

I assume there's not much in Jill's book about him?

[Salacious Kitty]

There was no mention of any grandparent in her book.

Given what Derrick said about JB suggesting rehab for Derrick for having one beer, I imagine he thought JL was an alcoholic. It's impossible to quantify because we don't know how how much he really drank. Mary never said anything about it, and she's the one who would have known. 

[GeeGolly]

If you step back and look at the Duggars with a bit of neutrality its still hard to see what is cult mentality and what is individual personality traits and what's a mixture of both. We've seen Michelle have visceral reactions to premarital hand holding and a peek of a shoulder. IIRC, the Duggars drove through the night to buy milk from a store that didn't also sell alcohol. And then throw in the show and what is performative?

But IMO, it doesn't really matter. Disrespect is disrespect. These are folks who claim to love the sinner, not the sin. 

[Dehumidifier]

Wasn't part of the not getting along that the father also objected to JB's have a zillion kids plan?

[Future Cat Lady]

I always wondered if JB’s father was abusive towards JB. I think it’s a possibility.