Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[Minivanessa]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I think Jill and Jinger are both strong women, but in different ways. But even with their strength, they were raised to honor their headship.. . .

But anyway, both Jill and Jinger relied on their husbands because they were supposed to and because they needed to, to learn how to live outside of the Duggar bubble, but IMO, not because they are weak women. 

I just now read the reddit AMA by Brooke Arnold, who appeared in SHP. She was asked if while she was in IBLP she really believed in the teachings, and answered with this:

Quote

Yes, I was a very true believer. IMO so was Jill.

True believers are never the people who stay in cults. They're the ones that always leave. Eventually you figure out that no one else is genuine and you can't stand it. The people that stay are the ones who are using for it their own ends or find themselves trapped there.

I think that however they got together, Jill and Derick have a good bond. Jill was a true believer in all the carp she was taught growing up. Derick when he married her, was not involved with IBLP and I'm not sure he understood what he was getting into in that respect. He was mainstream Southern Baptist, which is def conservative evangelical, but went to public schools and public university. I think he'd idealized JB and the idea of marrying into a big happy righteous family, was in a seriously devout religious phase, and was young and naive.

I don't think Jill was just happily living in her IBLP bubble after marriage until one day Derick got p*ssed off about money and ordered her to change her mind. I think that they each saw things happening, much of it around the show, that caused them to start questioning what they'd been told. We saw that after the marriage Derick came to understand the limits of Jill's education; IIRC he'd had ambitions to become an IMB-authorized missionary which requires the missionary AND spouse to have college educations including several theology courses. He had to give up on that idea because Jill wouldn't be able to do all those college-level courses. And they ended up doing the SOS Ministries mission - and the show interfered with that. For all we know, Jill had, even before marriage, noticed things that clashed with her true belief in all things IBLP/ATI. I hope they walk us through these things in their book. 

What with SHP and the ensuing discussions, I've been again very aware that I harbor some empathy for Derick. That surprises me, because ordinarily I would have consigned him to my mental "hopeless despicables" list after his SM posts attacking Jazz. I've now decided that it's because I believe he has been a caring, supportive spouse and partner for Jill.  Cori Shepherd Stern, the executive producer of SHP, did a reddit AMA recently. She was asked "What were Jill and Derek like in person? Did she seem to "submit to her headship" or was it really just like talking to normal people?" She answered, "Normal humans." ETA: Stern grew up in a fundamentalist Christian family (though not specifically IBLP) so I trust her observation; she knows the culture.

Edited June 22, 2023 by Jeeves

[Absolom]

I think if Derick didn't truly care for Jill, he'd have filed for divorce long ago.  Instead he saw fit to help her get involved with women's groups at church and seek real counseling, etc.

[Salacious Kitty]

Their new church is smaller, but it seems to have a good leadership base, so I don't think they've regressed into the IFB. I think that's good for Jill. Maybe she can become involved in the children's ministry. 

Maybe they found Cross Church too large? Still wondering why they left. It wasn't that far of a drive, no longer than Derick's commute.

[GeeGolly]

I see Jill as a "true believer", but only on the surface. In other words she was a believer in the culture of the TTH and the wider Fundy bubble, didn't question much and didn't delve to deep. In contrast I think Jinger dug deeper into the religious/Biblical parts.

I think Derick is likely a good (enough) husband. I think he loves Jill and loves their boys. But I also think he is thin skinned, selfish and constantly trying to prove himself. Not too different from Jeremy. What is different with Derick is he can't control his anger, he lashes out at folks who aren't in his world and he uses his anger to spew the hate he already feels. That will never be cool in my book. IMO, a more caring and mature husband, and loving and humble human, would have handled the financial issues with more finesse and less collateral damage.

I look back and see Jill's Duggar bubble getting beat up here but I think Jill has made her own Dillard bubble because at this point in Jill's life she needs a bubble and for the most part still believes in it, again, on the surface. Derick challenging JB was another ding, a really big ding for Jill, and I think she's still figuring that out.

And lastly, the biggest difference I see between Jinger and Jill is, (so far) Jill hasn't connected any dots and Jinger has. I don't think Jill connects instant obedience as a child with never saying no to a parent as an adult. Or restriction of 'worldly' things as contributing to fear and anxiety, etc.

I hope to be very surprised after the Dillard book comes out and hear about ways Jill has grown and has connected some dots. I hope to hear she has let go of the Duggar bubble and is in the process of slowly popping her own.

I'll be first in line to applaud her if that is what actually is happening.

Edited June 22, 2023 by GeeGolly

[Absolom]

55 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Their new church is smaller, but it seems to have a good leadership base, so I don't think they've regressed into the IFB. I think that's good for Jill. Maybe she can become involved in the children's ministry. 

Maybe they found Cross Church too large? Still wondering why they left. It wasn't that far of a drive, no longer than Derick's commute.

It could be if they go multiple times a week, they preferred something closer and due to Derick's commute, he might simply be done after driving five days a week.  Or they might have wanted a change and this was the perfect excuse.  

[Dimi1]

I was lurking on FB last night and the gal I told you about - that was in IFBlP was really letting it all out...She is so traumatized and her family ( of 10 siblings) is an absolute mess- she was reacting to SHP....If Jill and Jinger went through half of what this gal did...I feel much sorrow for them...It is probably going to take a lifetime to come out of the trauma from that cult...The fear alone of the outside world must be so triggering....

[awaken]

19 hours ago, Zella said:

I think Jeremy has grander ambitions for fame than being MacArthur's lap dog or Jinger's husband. Otherwise, he wouldn't have tried courting people like Kanye (and failing miserably but still) or all of those pathetic influencer attempts, like Fonuts. He's also sometimes seemed irritated when the attention is on her and not him. That's why I don't buy that if it was his idea, his only motivation was to promote MacArthur. In fact, he's often been quite slippery concerning MacArthur, like when he signed that bigoted bullshit a few years ago but didn't try to advertise his position on it. 

I forgot about the whole Kanye thing!  😂Thanks for the laugh tonight; I needed it!

[Tuxcat]

8 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Maybe they found Cross Church too large? Still wondering why they left. It wasn't that far of a drive, no longer than Derick's commute.

I don't know the timeline of things and if someone develops insomnia - maybe they can do down the rabbit hole and research it. But that guy Ronnie Floyd may or may not have been the pastor when Derick was doing his year of study there?

Floyd was accused for stalling widespread abuse investigations. There was a bunch of back and forth and he denied the charges. I don't recall any details except he had to give up his high ranking post in the SBC (which btw has its own problems - different from the IBLP - but wow - its a rabbit hole too). 

Just wondering if they left maybe due to some of that. 

And their new church seems to be run by a guy who initially wanted to be a teacher... Fast forward they now homeschool all their kids. So maybe their influence is one reason Jill - allegedly - is homeschooling again?

Edited June 23, 2023 by Tuxcat

[Salacious Kitty]

7 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

I don't know the timeline of things and if someone develops insomnia - maybe they can do down the rabbit hole and research it. But that guy Ronnie Floyd may or may not have been the pastor when Derick was doing his year of study there?

Floyd was accused for stalling widespread abuse investigations. There was a bunch of back and forth and he denied the charges. I don't recall any details except he had to give up his high ranking post in the SBC (which btw has its own problems - different from the IBLP - but wow - its a rabbit hole too). 

Just wondering if they left maybe due to some of that. 

And their new church seems to be run by a guy who initially wanted to be a teacher... Fast forward they now homeschool all their kids. So maybe their influence is one reason Jill - allegedly - is homeschooling again?

They just left Cross Church when they moved, long after the Ronnie Floyd scandal. 

[louannems]

On 6/3/2023 at 10:53 AM, Kellyee said:

Derrick says minimum wage, but I haven't seen him say how many hours it was determined that Jill worked

In the book the girls “wrote” it says the filming crew taped three or four hours per day, three or four days per week.  Or it may have only been two or three hours per day and two or three days per week.

Certainly not a forty hour work week.

[GeeGolly]

I wonder if Derick finally felt he/they could put out a book now, because he has a job? Prior to this he was drifting and grifting and then living off Jill's back pay.

Jill, like the sweet person she is and sadly, like the helpmeet she was "trained up" to be has supported Derick at ever turn. She tried to figure out and manage loneliness during their first year of marriage when Derick was working, she then lived in fear as she sat home alone with a newborn in El Salvador, and she then used her money to buy the family a home and send Derick to school. Jill also delayed having a third child because that is what Derick wanted. And finally they moved from the only area Jill knew so Derick could live closer to his new job.

I'm guessing putting out a book during those times wouldn't fit with Derick's image of himself. If Jill gets too enlightened she may start to see the man who occasionally buys her candy a little differently. 

 

 

Edited June 24, 2023 by GeeGolly

[dariafan]

It makes me angrier at jb when I think of all the headship poo he preaches, yet still considered himself the headship of Jill ( as shown in sho when they went on their mission trip ). He didn’t want to give up control 

[YupItsMe]

16 minutes ago, dariafan said:

It makes me angrier at jb when I think of all the headship poo he preaches, yet still considered himself the headship of Jill ( as shown in sho when they went on their mission trip ). He didn’t want to give up control 

Especially when we know that Michelle really ruled the roost.

Edited June 24, 2023 by YupItsMe

[Jynnan tonnix]

9 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I wonder if Derick finally felt he/they could put out a book now, because he has a job? Prior to this he was drifting and grifting and then living off Jill's back pay.

Jill, like the sweet person she is and sadly, like the helpmeet she was "trained up" to be has supported Derick at ever turn. She tried to figure out and manage loneliness during their first year of marriage when Derick was working, she then lived in fear as she sat home alone with a newborn in El Salvador, and she then used her money to buy the family a home and send Derick to school. Jill also delayed having a third child because that is what Derick wanted. And finally they moved from the only area Jill knew so Derick could live closer to his new job.

I'm guessing putting out a book during those times wouldn't fit with Derick's image of himself. If Jill gets too enlightened she may start to see the man who occasionally buys her candy a little differently. 

 

 

I'm not sure that it's that bad of a deal for her, though. None of us is perfect, and most of us have our share of faults - even faults which would be a deal-breaker in other relationships. But barring actual abusive relationships, if you make a commitment, and care for your partner, there are a lot of things you have to either learn to overlook and deal with, recognizing that you easily have just as many faults yourself. At least, that's the way I've always seen it. 

Mr Jyn is, by far, not the easiest person to live with. He has definite control issues, and lacks patience, among other things, but I, on the other hand, am on the lazy side, hate making decisions, and am probably at least somewhat on the autism spectrum, so having someone who actually thrives on being in charge works well for me.

I think Jill and Derick's relationship also seems to work for them, despite the fact that  many people would have a hard time living with either of them.

[GeeGolly]

6 minutes ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

I'm not sure that it's that bad of a deal for her, though. None of us is perfect, and most of us have our share of faults - even faults which would be a deal-breaker in other relationships. But barring actual abusive relationships, if you make a commitment, and care for your partner, there are a lot of things you have to either learn to overlook and deal with, recognizing that you easily have just as many faults yourself. At least, that's the way I've always seen it. 

Mr Jyn is, by far, not the easiest person to live with. He has definite control issues, and lacks patience, among other things, but I, on the other hand, am on the lazy side, hate making decisions, and am probably at least somewhat on the autism spectrum, so having someone who actually thrives on being in charge works well for me.

I think Jill and Derick's relationship also seems to work for them, despite the fact that  many people would have a hard time living with either of them.

This is all very true. But Jill was/is more stunted than the average adult. There is a chance she could outgrow the traits she likes in Derick. He is after all a lot like JB. But there's just as good of a chance of them remaining married forever.

[MaryAnneSpier]

Aren’t they the couple who had a “Covenant Marriage”?   Isn’t that supposed to make divorce nearly impossible?

[Absolom]

Divorce is quite possible just somewhat more complicated.  There's also the option of moving to Oklahoma (or another state) long enough to establish residency.  

[Zella]

54 minutes ago, MaryAnneSpier said:

Aren’t they the couple who had a “Covenant Marriage”?   Isn’t that supposed to make divorce nearly impossible?

It's a weird myth among snarkers* that AR covenant marriages are somehow indestructible. You have to jump through more hoops and it takes a bit longer, but you can definitely still get divorced. 

*To be fair, it's also a weird myth believed by some of our not so bright Arkansans. My grandparents used to go to church with a guy who believed his wife couldn't leave him for another man because they'd had a covenant marriage. He was soon very strongly disabused of this notion. 

Edited June 25, 2023 by Zella

[lookeyloo]

3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

This is all very true. But Jill was/is more stunted than the average adult. There is a chance she could outgrow the traits she likes in Derick. He is after all a lot like JB. But there's just as good of a chance of them remaining married forever.

This is also true. How many people are at their peak of emotional maturity when they get married - maybe one is or the other is or neither. Sometimes they grow in the same direction and sometimes they don't.  Looking in from the outside doesn't always give a true picture. We only see what they want us to.  And we go from there 

[Meow Mix]

Whatever is going on with Jill and Derick's marriage, I really hope that this book finally gets Derick's resentment out of his system.  I'm not saying he didn't have a right to be angry at JB, but he has just held on to if for so long.  Jill said in the doc that she was classified as a mercy giver in that IBLP classification system and I believe that if Derick weren't around, she would have been hurt, but let the money thing go years ago.  Derick may not rehab his image as much as he thinks he will if this book takes the Prince Harry approach and is just a giant pity party/bitch fest.  I want Derick to tell the truth about his own choices around the show, because I believe the fame went to his head initially and he signed off on some things he later regretted.  

[Zella]

12 hours ago, Meow Mix said:

I want Derick to tell the truth about his own choices around the show, because I believe the fame went to his head initially and he signed off on some things he later regretted.  

I don't think Derick is ever going to admit publicly that he was not some innocent bystander and that he made decisions that directly contributed to the situation because I don't think he is capable of admitting it to himself. 

[Scarlett45]

19 hours ago, Meow Mix said:

Whatever is going on with Jill and Derick's marriage, I really hope that this book finally gets Derick's resentment out of his system.  I'm not saying he didn't have a right to be angry at JB, but he has just held on to if for so long.  Jill said in the doc that she was classified as a mercy giver in that IBLP classification system and I believe that if Derick weren't around, she would have been hurt, but let the money thing go years ago.  Derick may not rehab his image as much as he thinks he will if this book takes the Prince Harry approach and is just a giant pity party/bitch fest.  I want Derick to tell the truth about his own choices around the show, because I believe the fame went to his head initially and he signed off on some things he later regretted.  

 

7 hours ago, Zella said:

I don't think Derick is ever going to admit publicly that he was not some innocent bystander and that he made decisions that directly contributed to the situation because I don't think he is capable of admitting it to himself. 

I agree with you. Humans are allowed to have their feelings, but have you ever seen people hold onto things so long it hardens them?? I see Derrick being like this (not Jill).

But as @Jynnan tonnix stated about her own relationship upthread, no one is perfect and often that balance of character traits is good for both people. Derrick made Jill stand up for herself, Jill made Derrick have perspective.

 

For the record I’m not suggesting anyone is required to forgive and forget, or associate with people who’ve hurt you (everyone has a right to set their own boundaries), but cut the poison out if you have to- don’t hold onto it and let it ruin the good parts of your life. 

[GeeGolly]

Financial family feuds are as old as dirt. There is only one reason this feud was made public - because Derick was continually beat up online and he couldn't handle it. He was called a grifter. His fundraising efforts were attacked. He was deemed a famewhore and a failed missionary. Never mind all the attacks on his looks and lack of agility. Derick wanted his cake and to eat it too. He wanted the fame, but none of the bullshit that came with it.

Derick had so many options, including hopping offline, shutting the fuck up or ignoring it all. But he knew if he publicly attacked JB, he'd be seen as some kind of hero. And it worked - to a degree. But again he's not hopping offline, shutting the fuck up or ignoring it all. He is taking his, IMO unearned, hero status and running with it.

It seems to me that right as Jill was repairing her relationships with her family Derick saw fit to isolate her from them all over again. IMO, if Derick was truly a supportive husband he would have put his pride aside and this all would have been done privately and put to bed years ago.

[GeeGolly]

[Salacious Kitty]

Izzy's built just like his dad. He's so tall! It looks like Sam got the Duggar height gene. 

[floridamom]

I don't think Sam should be standing on that chair....get him a proper step stool. Why is Jill's kitchen such a mess?

[MsJamieDornan]

12 hours ago, floridamom said:

Why is Jill's kitchen such a mess?

She's a Duggar 

[Madtown]

"Sis and Bro'' really?

 

[Scarlett45]

20 minutes ago, Madtown said:

"Sis and Bro'' really?

 

Unfortunately losses can come in waves. In 2021 it felt like everyone we knew was losing people, my co-worker lost her 34years old brother unexpectedly and they were so excited for the upcoming birth of a cousin (new life and all), and the baby was still born a few days after his funeral. 
 

I can believe Jill is genuine in her support for Deena and Dan, she is a tender hearted person. Maybe sis and bro are her common nicknames for them. Given how many siblings Jill has I am surprised she longs for more (just kidding) but nothing has indicated Derick isn’t close with his brother and the in laws probably have a friendly relationship. 

[Madtown]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

Unfortunately losses can come in waves. In 2021 it felt like everyone we knew was losing people, my co-worker lost her 34years old brother unexpectedly and they were so excited for the upcoming birth of a cousin (new life and all), and the baby was still born a few days after his funeral. 
 

I can believe Jill is genuine in her support for Deena and Dan, she is a tender hearted person. Maybe sis and bro are her common nicknames for them. Given how many siblings Jill has I am surprised she longs for more (just kidding) but nothing has indicated Derick isn’t close with his brother and the in laws probably have a friendly relationship. 

Sorry, should’ve been more clear. I wasn’t saying Jill isn’t tender hearted, as I think she is or tries to be. Just not my choice of words for the topic on hand. Though I know she relates to her own siblings, as sis and bro. 

[lookeyloo]

4 hours ago, Madtown said:

"Sis and Bro'' really?

 

Who knows.  Maybe it is a regional/familial thing.  I probably call my relatives something unusual to people outside our "zone"

[oliviabenson]

Deena is married to derecks brother?

[GeeGolly]

7 minutes ago, oliviabenson said:

Deena is married to derecks brother?

Deena and Deanna are two different people.

[Tuxcat]

5 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I can believe Jill is genuine in her support for Deena and Dan, she is a tender hearted person. Maybe sis and bro are her common nicknames for them. Given how many siblings Jill has I am surprised she longs for more (just kidding) but nothing has indicated Derick isn’t close with his brother and the in laws probably have a friendly relationship. 

Perhaps the larger question is why Jill felt inclined to repost her "sis and bro" 's post. Everything always seems performative. Just call the sis and bro. No need to repost and share to millions of people who do not know them. And no need to tell us - the public - that you love and support your sis and bro. Pick up the phone. It's enough.

[GeeGolly]

Dan Dillard ran a half marathon for cancer. His post is very 'Derick'.

[Stevie Nicks]

[oliviabenson]

Jill looks nice. I like her look!

[oliviabenson]

On 6/28/2023 at 8:09 PM, GeeGolly said:

Dan Dillard ran a half marathon for cancer. His post is very 'Derick'.

Wow both brothers are unpleasant donkeys!

[lascuba]

1 hour ago, oliviabenson said:

Wow both brothers are unpleasant donkeys!

Well, their mother is completely batshit, so they come by it honestly.

[GeeGolly]

Jill is looking for hacks to "mom it" during the summer.

[sagittarius sue]

So what is crazy about Jill's schedule?  She takes the kids to the pool and does some gardening.  It's not like the kids are out of school and home now.  They've been home this entire past year.

[oliviabenson]

She raised like 10 siblings and has 3 kids. Shouldn’t she have some ideas of what to do with her kids?

[ozziemom]

But don’t you find Jill sooooo relatable asking her followers for advice? No? 

[xwordfanatik]

24 minutes ago, ozziemom said:

But don’t you find Jill sooooo relatable asking her followers for advice? No? 

Well, Jessa never would, so there's that.

 

41 minutes ago, oliviabenson said:

She raised like 10 siblings and has 3 kids. Shouldn’t she have some ideas of what to do with her kids?

One would think.  🙄

[Zella]

1 hour ago, sagittarius sue said:

So what is crazy about Jill's schedule?  She takes the kids to the pool and does some gardening.  It's not like the kids are out of school and home now.  They've been home this entire past year.

This is one reason why, when people suggest Jill could pursue a degree or get a job outside the home, I don't think it will ever happen. Basic time management seems to both elude and intimidate her. 

I know we debate whether or not the kids are in school and if not why. I am starting to think it may very well be that the logistics of getting 2 kids to school every day was too much for her. If true, that's just pathetic. 

[Absolom]

For me it would be way easier to figure out how to get two kids to and from school than have them home all day and trying to homeschool them while caring for a newborn.  She fails basic logic and time management.  Getting three kids to swimming where two are taken off her hands should be close to a cakewalk.  

[Zella]

16 minutes ago, Absolom said:

For me it would be way easier to figure out how to get two kids to and from school than have them home all day and trying to homeschool them while caring for a newborn.

Same for me. 

[GeeGolly]

Typical parent and kids live 9 months by schedule, 3 months with none. I actually felt that was the perfect balance when I was a stay-at-home mom.

[ozziemom]

3 hours ago, Zella said:

This is one reason why, when people suggest Jill could pursue a degree or get a job outside the home, I don't think it will ever happen. Basic time management seems to both elude and intimidate her. 

I know we debate whether or not the kids are in school and if not why. I am starting to think it may very well be that the logistics of getting 2 kids to school every day was too much for her. If true, that's just pathetic. 

100% agree with this. I have long thought that Derick helped get Izzy off to school before he started working full time. With the move, new baby etc etc Jill was probably so overwhelmed that there was no way she could manage to get two kids ready on a timely basis. Duggar time prevails without Derek to assist her. 

[Westiepeach]

But, hey! Buy my book!