Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[Soaper410]

23 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

I realize this has all been debated before but I don't fully understand Derick's argument. My impression is that the older adult children that choose to continue to do the show do it for a variety of reasons. First and foremost, the show provides them with continued opportunity and exposure so that they can write books, sell and shill, and be those influencers. So they do benefit from the show even if they are not fully in control of production, negotiation, money. Has Derick ever acknowledged this? 

Has he been advocating for Counting On to be cancelled even before the Josh thing?

I believe the Dillards have been fairly vocal that Jim Bob and Michelle get all the money from the Counting On show as well and then divide the money up.  They said a few years ago that the contracts at least back when they were on the show was between TLC, production company, and Jim Bob.  

[Slakkie]

16 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

I realize this has all been debated before but I don't fully understand Derick's argument. My impression is that the older adult children that choose to continue to do the show do it for a variety of reasons. First and foremost, the show provides them with continued opportunity and exposure so that they can write books, sell and shill, and be those influencers. So they do benefit from the show even if they are not fully in control of production, negotiation, money. Has Derick ever acknowledged this? 

Has he been advocating for Counting On to be cancelled even before the Josh thing?

I think his issue was that the money went to Jumbo and Michelle and dolled out to the kids.  I am guessing Perv Force 1 was still getting money.

 

[WinnieWinkle]

36 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

So they do benefit from the show even if they are not fully in control of production, negotiation, money. Has Derick ever acknowledged this? 

I think Derrick's point has always been that everything is about Jim Bob.  He makes all the decisions and he handles all the money.  The adult children do benefit but in the same way that the minor children do.  In the Duggar world (that Jill escaped) the patriarch is the centre and all revolve around him and bow down to him.

Edited May 1, 2021 by WinnieWinkle

[GeeGolly]

Why is Derick getting involved in this? Its no longer his fight. IMO, he needs to shut up and be there for his wife and kids.

[Tuxcat]

9 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Why is Derick getting involved in this? Its no longer his fight. IMO, he needs to shut up and be there for his wife and kids.

I agree.

And I understand why Derrick complains.  He is irritated that JimBob controls things. But I do not understand him calling for cancellation. If the other adult kids want to do the show - that is THEIR choice. And so by calling for the show to be canceled - he is in fact hurting those other adult children who obviously see a benefit to being on it. 

So I don't understand why Derick is even involved right now?

[Suzn]

3 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

I agree.

And I understand why Derrick complains.  He is irritated that JimBob controls things. But I do not understand him calling for cancellation. If the other adult kids want to do the show - that is THEIR choice. And so by calling for the show to be canceled - he is in fact hurting those other adult children who obviously see a benefit to being on it. 

So I don't understand why Derick is even involved right now?

Apparently, Hell just froze over!  I agree with Derick that the show should be canceled.  He is right that it is still JB's show and helps keep JB in charge of everyone.

[WinnieWinkle]

2 minutes ago, Suzn said:

Apparently, Hell just froze over!  I agree with Derick that the show should be canceled.  He is right that it is still JB's show and helps keep JB in charge of everyone.

Absolutely.  And he's in a position to have seen that control first hand and to know that as long as the show continues and the money comes in nothing will change for the kids (including adult kids) still circling around JB.  

[mynextmistake]

23 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Why is Derick getting involved in this? Its no longer his fight. IMO, he needs to shut up and be there for his wife and kids.

I don’t think the two are mutually exclusive. 
 

I think his point, as I understand it, is that Jim Bob and Michelle control the new show just as much as they control the old one. It isn’t the kids who are on the show, even the older married ones, who are benefiting, because they only get what JB and Michelle decide that they deserve. Even the adult kids don’t have their own contracts with TLC. Everything is routed through Jim Bob. For all we know, Jim Bob was still giving money to Josh.
 

He’s probably really angry that his in-laws allowed their son to abuse his wife, then go onto abuse other girls, then go on to look at videos of other children being abused. I think it’s natural that he wants to end something that they are really the only ones who benefit from.

Edited May 1, 2021 by mynextmistake

[Tuxcat]

2 minutes ago, Suzn said:

Apparently, Hell just froze over!  I agree with Derick that the show should be canceled.  He is right that it is still JB's show and helps keep JB in charge of everyone.

I get that but Jessa and Ben, Jeremy and Jinger, Abbie and John David... don't have to do the show if they don't want to. They see benefit and reward- so they do it.  They obviously benefit whether or not its JB controlling the negotiations. 

I am not sure why Josh's actions should impact the rewards and opportunities for his  siblings. Now if JOSH is getting paid from the show earnings via JB -- then I could see calling for cancellation. 

[ginger90]

I don’t believe Derick is calling for cancellation of the show.

I get what he’s saying, in response to this comment:

[Tuxcat]

2 minutes ago, mynextmistake said:

I don’t think the two are mutually exclusive. 

Derrick doesn't need to be in this yet again. He seems to oddly enjoy the limelight here and that's a little gross.

[WinnieWinkle]

2 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

I don’t believe Derick is calling for cancellation of the show.

I get what he’s saying, in response to this comment:

And that comment is very misleading - either intentional or because someone doesn't want to see what's pretty obvious.  They talk as if since Josh was written off the show that he has no connection to the others.  Do they not realise Josh and his family are living on the compound? Further if the parents wanted the show off the air it would be gone (not that they want the cash cow to end).  It is very much their show, not the kids show.  This is not a typical family where adult children live separate lives.

[cocobeans]

I wish the show was cancelled because the family uses it as a platform to "sell" this unhealthy lifestyle to others. I wonder how many in the family would have left it behind if there was no show/financial reward?

May Jill continue to heal

[BitterApple]

27 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Why is Derick getting involved in this? Its no longer his fight. IMO, he needs to shut up and be there for his wife and kids.

I agree. My biggest dislike of Derick is that he doesn't know when to stop dumping gasoline on the fire. He got his settlement. I don't know why Boob continues to live rent free in his head. Boob and Michelle are undeniably messed up people, but there's no need to keep kicking the family while they're down. Ffs, just support your wife and take a break from social media.

5 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

Derrick doesn't need to be in this yet again. He seems to oddly enjoy the limelight here and that's a little gross.

It reminds of me Amy's constant need to chime in. She's shocked! And overwhelmed! And hurt! But boy, she never misses an opportunity to provide a sound bite.

[Cinnabon]

1 hour ago, Tuxcat said:

I realize this has all been debated before but I don't fully understand Derick's argument. My impression is that the older adult children that choose to continue to do the show do it for a variety of reasons. First and foremost, the show provides them with continued opportunity and exposure so that they can write books, sell and shill, and be those influencers. So they do benefit from the show even if they are not fully in control of production, negotiation, money. Has Derick ever acknowledged this? 

Has he been advocating for Counting On to be cancelled even before the Josh thing?

I agree with him. The best thing for all of them over the long run is to get off tv and get real jobs. And stop exploiting their kids.

Edited May 1, 2021 by Cinnabon

[MsJamieDornan]

11 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

Now if JOSH is getting paid from the show earnings via JB -- then I could see calling for cancellation.

I would bet everything I have that Josh still gets paid, possibly even more than the girls.

 

16 minutes ago, WinnieWinkle said:

Absolutely.  And he's in a position to have seen that control first hand and to know that as long as the show continues and the money comes in nothing will change for the kids (including adult kids) still circling around JB.  

Exactly. 

Now is the time for Derrick to write his book. I would wait in line to buy it.

[Cinnabon]

17 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

I get that but Jessa and Ben, Jeremy and Jinger, Abbie and John David... don't have to do the show if they don't want to. They see benefit and reward- so they do it.  They obviously benefit whether or not its JB controlling the negotiations. 

I am not sure why Josh's actions should impact the rewards and opportunities for his  siblings. Now if JOSH is getting paid from the show earnings via JB -- then I could see calling for cancellation. 

They do it partly to spread their hateful beliefs, IMO. I’d like to see it all canceled. Their kids deserve more than exploitation and they will be much better off in the long run seeing their parents learn real world skills and working at real jobs. 

Edited May 1, 2021 by Cinnabon

[JoanArc]

12 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

I agree with him. The best thing for all of them over the long run is to get off tv and get real jobs. And stop exploiting their kids.

 I wish he would explain to Jill why it’s time for happy mail to go away.

[Tuxcat]

16 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

I agree with him. The best thing for all of them over the long run is to get off tv and get real jobs. And stop exploiting their kids.

In my opinion Derrick is just as guilty though. He signed on for the fame and fortune. He didn't like the terms of the negotiations once he discovered that "Jill and Jessa Counting On" would include everyone all over again. He didn't like that his fortune would be limited.

And now, Derrick continues to insert himself into the public eye, capitalizing on controversy, and judging everyone except himself. He and Jill  are still shilling, youtubing and exploiting their family in the hopes of achieving more followers, more publicity and thus more personal gain. 

And he is purposefully also very vague and tease like in his debates-- thereby generating the buzz he seeks. He shouldn't be standing on some moral high ground here.

Edited May 1, 2021 by Tuxcat

[Cinnabon]

8 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

 I wish he would explain to Jill why it’s time for happy mail to go away.

Probably so.

6 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

In my opinion Derrick is just as guilty though. He signed on for the fame and fortune. He didn't like the terms of the negotiations once he discovered that "Jill and Jessa Counting On" would include everyone all over again. He didn't like that his fortune would be limited.

And now, Derrick continues to insert himself into the public eye, capitalizing on controversy, and judging everyone except himself. He and Jill  are still shilling, youtubing and exploiting their family in the hopes of achieving more followers, more publicity and thus more personal gain. 

And he is purposefully also very vague and tease like in his debates-- thereby generating the buzz he seeks. He shouldn't be standing on some moral high ground here.

I agree that he and Jill should also stop exploiting their kids on SM. No one should be sharing those with thousands of strangers.

[Zella]

I agree the show should he cancelled, but I also think Derick should shut up right now. This is not about him and his grievances, and he and Jill are not protecting their children from the public eye either, so I don't get the high horse he seems to have mounted himself on. 

Personally, I think Derick has always been butthurt about being fired from the show. He has restructured the narrative to make it seem like he has noble reasons for leaving, but I think if that were true, he wouldn't seem so consumed by it. 

Edited May 1, 2021 by Zella

[mythoughtis]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

Why is Derick getting involved in this? Its no longer his fight. IMO, he needs to shut up and be there for his wife and kids.

He is married to Josh’s sister.  his children are Josh’s nephews.  His in laws are Josh’s siblings.  Even though they aren’t on the show any more, they do still care about people whose last names  are Duggar, Voulo, Forsyth, Seewald.  They do still want the best for them. 

On top of that, who is it that’s going to get stuck with helping out Anna and the kids and then all the other zillion offspring later on when JB and Michelle get older? Their older sister buddies that’s who.  
 

who among us doesn’t have opinions on their own in-laws? 

 

Edited May 1, 2021 by mythoughtis

[MsJamieDornan]

5 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

who among us doesn’t have opinions on their own in-laws?

Correct.   And Derrick's in-laws are big pieces of shit.

[Zella]

6 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

He is married to Josh’s sister.  his children are Josh’s nephews.  His in laws are Josh’s siblings.  Even though they aren’t on the show any more, they do still care about people whose last names  are Duggar, Voulo, Forsyth, Seewald.  They do still want the best for them. 

On top of that, who is it that’s going to get stuck with helping out Anna and the kids and then all the other zillion offspring later on when JB and Michelle get older? Their older sister buddies that’s who.  
 

who among us doesn’t have opinions on their own in-laws? 

 

There's a big difference between having thoughts on your in-laws and blasting them out in public, though,  in the middle of a national scandal when you have a social media platform of some size. 

[Tuxcat]

5 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

He is married to Josh’s sister.  his children are Josh’s nephews.  His in laws are Josh’s siblings.  Even though they aren’t on the show any more, they do still care about people whose last names  are Duggar, Voulo, Forsyth, Seewald.  They do still want the best for them. 

On top of that, who is it that’s going to get stuck with helping out Anna and the kids and then all the other zillion offspring later on when JB and Michelle get older? Their older sister buddies that’s who.  
 

who among us doesn’t have opinions on their own in-laws? 

 

I have lots of opinions about my family members.  But I'm not on twitter leaving little vague cookie comments (clearly designed to draw interest, speculation, publicity) nor do I have two million followers, a youtube channel or a desire to publicly albeit vaguely shame my family. He's doing it for his own gain. Let's not forget the Derrick from a few years ago. 

[BitterApple]

The thing with Derick is he always fails to see the irony. If it's best for the show to be cancelled and the Duggars to live private lives, wouldn't that same principle apply to him and Jill as well? 

Edited May 1, 2021 by BitterApple

[Zella]

I guess my thing is that Derick seems to be making this more about his own personal feud than anything else. He is not the victim here. If Jill wants to get on social media and blast the shit out of her parents right now, I'd probably not think it was a great idea. But I absolutely wouldn't begrudge her the right to do it.

Derick always makes it seem like he is the most martyred person in the Duggar universe, and I find that really offensive. 

In this sense, he and Amy are very similar. 

[mythoughtis]

4 minutes ago, Zella said:

There's a big difference between having thoughts on your in-laws and blasting them out in public, though,  in the middle of a national scandal when you have a social media platform of some size. 

True.... but none of the Duggar family had to post bland self serving comments yesterday and today on their social media either.... but yet they did.  Just like they Post birthday wishes. 

[GeeGolly]

14 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

He is married to Josh’s sister.  his children are Josh’s nephews.  His in laws are Josh’s siblings.  Even though they aren’t on the show any more, they do still care about people whose last names  are Duggar, Voulo, Forsyth, Seewald.  They do still want the best for them. 

On top of that, who is it that’s going to get stuck with helping out Anna and the kids and then all the other zillion offspring later on when JB and Michelle get older? Their older sister buddies that’s who.  
 

who among us doesn’t have opinions on their own in-laws? 

 

If Derick cares about his inlaws, he sure has a funny way of showing it.

[WinnieWinkle]

I don't follow the Duggars much so my 2 cents probably isn't worth 2 cents but IMO I don't blame Derick one bit for taking this moment to maybe enjoy seeing the mighty humbled.  He and his wife are told they need permission to visit her family and all the while the person who abused his wife is living the life of the crown prince and Mom and Dad are making a fortune off their sick brand of child rearing.  Then to find out that the child abuser is even more of a pervert than they even imagined and may well end up in prison.  I dunno, if it were me I don't think I could take the high road and keep my mouth shut either.

[Tuxcat]

1 minute ago, mythoughtis said:

True.... but none of the Duggar family had to post bland self serving comments yesterday and today on their social media either.... but yet they did.  Just like they Post birthday wishes. 

Yes because they have to protect their public brand. Derrick, while advocating privacy, is ironically publicly drawing more interest, more headlines, more self serving attention via his comments. A public statement, like the others, would be completely fine. Even a strong condemnation of Josh - I'm all for it. But that's not what he's doing. He's out there shilling this moment and making it all about him.

[Gigi43]

10 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

In my opinion Derrick is just as guilty though. He signed on for the fame and fortune. He didn't like the terms of the negotiations once he discovered that "Jill and Jessa Counting On" would include everyone all over again. He didn't like that his fortune would be limited.

And now, Derrick continues to insert himself into the public eye, capitalizing on controversy, and judging everyone except himself. He and Jill  are still shilling, youtubing and exploiting their family in the hopes of achieving more followers, more publicity and thus more personal gain. 

And he is purposefully also very vague and tease like in his debates-- thereby generating the buzz he seeks. He shouldn't be standing on some moral high ground here.

 

He also didn't like the other content on TLC. He went after Jazz Jennings (who was a teenager and he was pushing 30) and IIRC was tweeting about how he wanted the show on a network with their values. The Duggars would never leave for a smaller network and they say it was their choice to leave but I don't see TLC letting them stay on after that. If Derick was raking in cash, I'm not sure if he'd feel differently about the show. Michelle may lobby against transgender bathroom usage, but they would never go after someone on TLC because they would put the cash cow at risk.

 

I get Derick wanting to get it out there that JB and Michelle still profit from the show (I guess they're the managers? Producers but they won't put the names in the credits? I don't know how you can pay *adults* as a family? But maybe they are.) It's clear from even the commercials I see JM and M have wormed their way on camera over time. However, I'm not thrilled with the idea of firing Josh's siblings for what Josh did. I don't think it's Derick's place to decide and I'm not sure his motives are pure. I think when he was making those comments about TLC he thought they family would walk with them or they'd get their own show on a Christian channel and obviously it didn't happen. He may be mad the other siblings didn't leave the show. I don't want JB and Michelle to keep making money off the show and getting off reality TV may be good for the family but it's not Derick's call. Is it really in Jill's best interest for her husband to be lobbying her siblings losing income for their families, however much it may be, at this time? 

[GeeGolly]

This is not about Derick and his hate for JB.

No matter how the Duggars got to where they're at. Whether its Josh's fault, the parent's fault and/or TLC's fault. They are all struggling with this. Derick should show some respect and keep his mouth shut.

 

[MsJamieDornan]

Why are we blaming Derrick for anything ? Geez, there are more important shitty things going on than a few comments he makes, usually after comments are aimed  at him. Right now, I have nothing to say about Derrick because there 3 other pieces of shit that can rot in hell.

Edited May 3, 2021 by MsJamieDornan

[Temperance]

Jill was at the TTH less than 2 years ago. She was with Jessa when Jessa was in labor with Ivy. Most of the Duggars were at Carlin's wedding, so Jessa called Jill to be with her. Jessa went to TTH to walk the stairs while in labor and Jill was with her. That was 2 years ago at the end of the month, so I guess close enough to 2 years?

As Derick, I have no problem with him talking about the future of the show. As matter of fact, I support him talking about the issue right now.  

[WinnieWinkle]

6 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Derick should show some respect and keep his mouth shut.

But who is he supposed to be respecting?  If  his wife has no problem with him weighing in on this then that's the only person I feel has any right to care about whether he weighs in or not.  I strongly suspect Jim Bob, Michelle, Anna and Josh have far more to worry about right now than someone they clearly don't care about shooting his mouth off on social media.

[GeeGolly]

1 minute ago, MsJamieDornan said:

Why are we blaming Derrick for anything ? Geez, there are more important shitty things going than a few comments he makes usually after comments are aimed  at him. Right now, I have nothing to say about Derrick because there 3 other pieces of shit that can rot in hell.

I can only speak for myself. I find it disrespectful and unsupportive to Jill and her siblings for Derick to drag up an old beef he had with JB during this time. 

 

[MsJamieDornan]

1 minute ago, GeeGolly said:

I can only speak for myself. I find it disrespectful and unsupportive to Jill and her siblings for Derick to drag up an old beef he had with JB during this time. 

Yes, you've mentioned it a few times. We can agree to disagree.

[Zella]

18 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

True.... but none of the Duggar family had to post bland self serving comments yesterday and today on their social media either.... but yet they did.  Just like they Post birthday wishes. 

I don't disagree, but I also don't think two wrongs make a right, either. I think if any of them are going to post, Jill actually has the best approach in that she's just going on about her day without making a spectacle of herself. 

[GeeGolly]

Just now, MsJamieDornan said:

Yes, you've mentioned it a few times. We can agree to disagree.

Oh sorry I thought your question was in part directed toward me.

[emmawoodhouse]

19 minutes ago, Zella said:

I guess my thing is that Derick seems to be making this more about his own personal feud than anything else. He is not the victim here. If Jill wants to get on social media and blast the shit out of her parents right now, I'd probably not think it was a great idea. But I absolutely wouldn't begrudge her the right to do it.

Derick always makes it seem like he is the most martyred person in the Duggar universe, and I find that really offensive. 

In this sense, he and Amy are very similar. 

Amy can't say much. She's still bound by an NDA. And I have to ask, who does that to relatives? Derelict gets it wrong a lot of the time, but I am totally behind him for refusing to sign an NDA. 

[Zella]

Just now, emmawoodhouse said:

Amy can't say much. She's still bound by an NDA. And I have to ask, who does that to relatives? Derelict gets it wrong a lot of the time, but I am totally behind him for refusing to sign an NDA. 

Yes, that was smart on his part.

My biggest thing with Derick is he has told so many lies and contradicted himself so many times that I just don't find him or his motives terribly credible. 

[MsJamieDornan]

1 minute ago, GeeGolly said:

Oh sorry I thought your question was in part directed toward me.

No.  Just in general.   

I cant even explain the hate I have for the 3 of them. Derrick is just a blip to me.

[Cinnabon]

22 minutes ago, WinnieWinkle said:

I don't follow the Duggars much so my 2 cents probably isn't worth 2 cents but IMO I don't blame Derick one bit for taking this moment to maybe enjoy seeing the mighty humbled.  He and his wife are told they need permission to visit her family and all the while the person who abused his wife is living the life of the crown prince and Mom and Dad are making a fortune off their sick brand of child rearing.  Then to find out that the child abuser is even more of a pervert than they even imagined and may well end up in prison.  I dunno, if it were me I don't think I could take the high road and keep my mouth shut either.

Me either. I’d know I should probably keep quiet but wouldn’t  be able to help myself 🤣.

Edited May 1, 2021 by Cinnabon

[emmawoodhouse]

10 minutes ago, Zella said:

Yes, that was smart on his part.

My biggest thing with Derick is he has told so many lies and contradicted himself so many times that I just don't find him or his motives terribly credible. 

This is where I come in to say that Jill needs to make a statement, if she's comfortable. That would take the focus off her husband. 

Edited May 1, 2021 by emmawoodhouse

[Zella]

Just now, emmawoodhouse said:

This is where I come in to say that Jill needs to make a statement. That would take the focus off her husband. 

I actually don't think any of the siblings need to make a statement if they don't want to. The fact she hasn't and has posted normal things on social media makes me think she is not interested in engaging with anyone on it, and honestly, that's another reason that he comes across as an asshole to me with what he is doing.

[emmawoodhouse]

That's why I amended my list to add that she needs to feel comfortable. Not forced or coerced in any manner!

[Zella]

Just now, emmawoodhouse said:

That's why I amended my list to add that she needs to feel comfortable. Not forced or coerced in any manner!

Yeah she might not care, but I feel like what he is doing puts pressure on her to respond and causes people to bombard her for clarification or whatever, and that just seems like a really shitty position to put her in right now. 

[WinnieWinkle]

2 minutes ago, Zella said:

The fact she hasn't and has posted normal things on social media makes me think she is not interested in engaging with anyone on it, and honestly, that's another reason that he comes across as an asshole to me with what he is doing.

I wondered if she was using him to express opinions she'd rather not voice herself.  I know I've certainly thrown my husband under the bus a time or two in the past in this regard.  Not saying stuff on social media but in other ways.  I think that's kind of normal for couples.  Well, I hope that's kind of normal for couples!

[Zella]

1 minute ago, WinnieWinkle said:

I wondered if she was using him to express opinions she'd rather not voice herself.  I know I've certainly thrown my husband under the bus a time or two in the past in this regard.  Not saying stuff on social media but in other ways.  I think that's kind of normal for couples.  Well, I hope that's kind of normal for couples!

That certainly could be the case, but like I said earlier, I have a pretty dim view of Derick's veracity and motives in general, and he's often come across as quite selfish to me.