Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[Sew Sumi]

Derelict said that Jill is in therapy. Unless he's lying.

[wilsie]

On 6/30/2020 at 6:19 PM, leighdear said:

Why do people think Jill is in therapy?  Just because she's posted photos on social media of some christian "self-help" books, carefully arranged with a cup of tea and a plant in the background?  Because she's referred to some naval-gazing, canned phrases that she's Googled from sites and dropped the names of authors of some easy-to-find Net blogs? 

I simply cannot buy that there is a live, trained and EDUCATED therapist as any part of her life.  I think it's a plot point in the story of the "new" Jill.  

And Isn't most legit therapy supposed to be about not just spewing your crap to random strangers on the Internet, and more working on your real relationships with real people in your real life?   

Yeah, that's a hard NO from me on her being in any legitimate therapeutic program.  YMMV. 

If Jill is in therapy, good for her.  If she's not, even better for her.  She's found friends in her neighborhood away from her family.  She's visited and has visits from these friends on holidays.  Israel even had a social distance birthday in their neighborhood.  The biggest yay for Jill is registering Israel for public school.  Not a church affiliated school.  A real public school.  No one else in their family has come close to this. I'd be surprised if they ever do.   Derick, who is not my favorite person, goes to college studying law and is in his third year.  He also delivers food in the evenings.  Jim Bob has not gifted them a home.  No other spouse has worked on a real job outside the Duggar dynasty.  Jeremy was a poor excuse for a pastor.  I think you have to be in the vicinity sometime to be able to pastor.  When LA became available he and Jingle were out of Texas as fast as possible.  I think that Jingle and Jeremy use the people around them.  I don't see Jill as doing this.   I think Jill is doing really well for all she's been through.  

 @Sew Sumi who very wisely posted this:  "Why do you say if she's not in therapy, even better for Jill? The young woman is deprogramming from a cult as well as coping with sexual abuse. She needs all the resources available to her to heal. I think it's wonderful that she's made friends independent of her family and thinks enough of them to entertain them on holidays. She's making great progress, and I would wager that therapy has been a great help in that. "

I added this:  "Not that it wouldn't be wonderful for Jill to be in therapy.  I think it would be awesome.  The statement I responded to mentioned that Jill couldn't be in therapy because of what she was posting.  I just wanted to make the point that she was doing very well for someone who had a lot of struggles and was working on her own.  I would love to for Jill to get good therapy.  I was addressing how well she was doing no matter what.  I just put it in a way that came across different than what I intended."  Someone mentioned that they didn't believe Jill was in therapy."

Edited July 3, 2020 by wilsie
I've been looking at then instead of than for 3 days and I needed to fix it

[irisheyes]

I think they’ve turned into one boring, slightly socially awkward couple. And, honestly, I think that’s awesome. As Israel (and eventually Sam) goes to school, gets involved in activities, and meets more people, Jill will get sorted out. It takes a while to de-program someone from a cult, especially when the cult is your family. 

[Sew Sumi]

8 minutes ago, wilsie said:

If Jill is in therapy, good for her.  If she's not, even better for her. 

Why do you say if she's not in therapy, even better for Jill? The young woman is deprogramming from a cult as well as coping with sexual abuse. She needs all the resources available to her to heal. I think it's wonderful that she's made friends independent of her family and thinks enough of them to entertain them on holidays. She's making great progress, and I would wager that therapy has been a great help in that. 

[wilsie]

5 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Why do you say if she's not in therapy, even better for Jill? The young woman is deprogramming from a cult as well as coping with sexual abuse. She needs all the resources available to her to heal. I think it's wonderful that she's made friends independent of her family and thinks enough of them to entertain them on holidays. She's making great progress, and I would wager that therapy has been a great help in that. 

Not that it wouldn't be wonderful for Jill to be in therapy.  I think it would be awesome.  The statement I responded to mentioned that Jill couldn't be in therapy because of what she was posting.  I just wanted to make the point that she was doing very well for someone who had a lot of struggles and was working on her own.  I would love to for Jill to get good therapy.  I was addressing how well she was doing no matter what.  I just put it in a way that came across different then what I intended.

Edited July 1, 2020 by wilsie

[Sew Sumi]

My apologies for misreading your post. I think we're actually in agreement regarding Jill's progress as she works to disentangle herself from the vast Duggar web.

[wilsie]

@Sew Sumi I don't think I explained it very well and you were so kindly looking out for Jill's best interest.  She does need good counseling.  That web is tight and deadly.  Thank you for your apology.

[GeeGolly]

We know that Jill has seen a therapist. I seem to remember a post stating that Jill and Derick went to a therapist together. And then in a podcast, Derick said Jill went to a therapist. But Jill being a Duggar, it doesn't mean she continues to see one, or ever intended to see one long term.

Regardless, Jill's displayed some independent thinking, or at the very least, some non-Duggar choices and appears to have been made aware of healthy vs non-healthy relationships. It seems she's shaking some Gothard beliefs, but she is married to Derick, has Cathy as a MIL and is a Duggar, so I don't see her losing her hardcore Fundy beliefs.

There are plenty of non-Fundies that want to interfere with the human rights of others, so while Izzy and Sam will be raised more like Derick was raised, they'll be taught the same beliefs.

[lascuba]

On 6/29/2020 at 1:17 PM, Zella said:

I will admit I didn't realize the anecdote happened so early. I know kids can be assholes and one instance of assholery as a kid does not an asshole or a bitch make. But I still firmly believe that no wonder Jessa is a bitch now if this is the lessons she got even as such a young child. It reminds me of a friend from college who told us that her brother was taught not to hit her but she was allowed to hit him, and she had no clue why the rest of us thought that sounded weird. But even as an adult she still acted like an entitled princess, and I'm sure that brother story was just the surface of how that concept was consistently reinforced throughout her childhood. Same with Jessa. If the lesson you get as a 5-year-old is that you can be a complete ass to your sister and you get rewarded and she gets punished, what incentive do you have to stop? 

Back on the subject of Jill, I know she was often considered a snitch and then it was revealed she was the one who told about Josh, apparently. Do we have any other instances where Jill acted like a snitch on her siblings or is that reputation solely because of the thing with Josh? Because if the latter, how very toxic that is too. 

I don't recall specific instances mentioned, but both Jana and JD, as well as Jill herself, mentioned that Jill was a rule follower and even as a little girl would get anxious at her siblings breaking the rule and would run to their parents to tell.

 

[Dimi1]

12 minutes ago, lascuba said:

I don't recall specific instances mentioned, but both Jana and JD, as well as Jill herself, mentioned that Jill was a rule follower and even as a little girl would get anxious at her siblings breaking the rule and would run to their parents to tell.

 

that is a big sign of fear...which I think we have seen her exhibit throughout her life...

[galaxygirl76]

It's great that Jill is seeing a therapist, much healthier than for example Jinger who, looking her anxiety post, seems to think that her Josh trauma can be prayed away. 

[Zella]

3 hours ago, lascuba said:

I don't recall specific instances mentioned, but both Jana and JD, as well as Jill herself, mentioned that Jill was a rule follower and even as a little girl would get anxious at her siblings breaking the rule and would run to their parents to tell.

 

Thanks! I agree with Dimi that it sounds rather fear-motivated.

[ginger90]

 

[ginger90]

[ozziemom]

8 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

Wow Derelict is skinny

[PradaKitty]

I see Derrick is rocking the “Fumb and Dumber” haircut...

DUMB!

Does Jill ever take out that nose ring? 

[JAYJAY1979]

When watching 19 kids & counting..I would have lost money cause Jill was to the last Duggar I would have found relatable..yet she's the most relatable.  She's still a Christian, but is balanced (for a Duggar..that is).

[QuinnInND]

1 hour ago, PradaKitty said:

 

Does Jill ever take out that nose ring? 

If she does, the hole will probably close up.  I still wonder what Lolli and Pops think about her getting it. 

And being out doing stuff with people. Smh. No masks... Ugh. But I guess Jesus will keep them safe. 

[Madtown]

I think I'm more surprised at Derick not wearing a shirt than how skinny he is. I would think no shirt would be off limits outside in public. Maybe there have been pictures of him without one before and I missed it.

[Sew Sumi]

Love how she put "courting" in quotes. 😂

Edited July 3, 2020 by Sew Sumi

[QuinnInND]

2 hours ago, Madtown said:

I think I'm more surprised at Derick not wearing a shirt than how skinny he is. I would think no shirt would be off limits outside in public. Maybe there have been pictures of him without one before and I missed it.

Why would it be off limits for him to be outside without a shirt? 

[BigBingerBro]

42 minutes ago, QuinnInND said:

Why would it be off limits for him to be outside without a shirt? 

Modesty beliefs?

[Madtown]

4 minutes ago, BigBingerBro said:

Modesty beliefs?

Yes, guess I should've said that..lol. I know he wasn't raised Duggar style, but I think of those Duggar boys dressed head to toe to go swimming.

Edited July 3, 2020 by Madtown

[Nysha]

Derick doesn't subscribe to the Duggar's modesty beliefs or any of the other legalistic crap* they push. One of the click bait articles quoted him saying something about nobody in his church is going to be upset by their behavior, such as letting the kids dance or Israel going to school. 

*He obviously subscribes to the hateful beliefs, unfortunately.

[Zella]

Miserable Arkansas summers have gotta trump Duggar modesty beliefs. 😂

It's been so hot and humid here that I had a coworker who had to go home and change her clothes from sweating through them on an errand run. 

[QuinnInND]

22 minutes ago, Madtown said:

Yes, guess I should've said that..lol. I know he wasn't raised Duggar style, but I think of those Duggar boys dressed head to toe to go swimming.

I forgot about that.  I forget sometimes we're talking about Duggars.  🤦‍♀️

[ginger90]

 

 

4 pictures, 4th is a video:

 

 

 

[tabloidlover]

It really does seem that they have found their groove.  They each look so much happier that they did a couple of years ago 

[JoanArc]

 Jill’s voice is a lot more natural. It’s amazing how much more healthier people can act when they are being authentic and not just trying to maintain a facade because it’s what they’ve been told to do their entire lives.

[doodlebug]

16 minutes ago, tabloidlover said:

It really does seem that they have found their groove.  They each look so much happier that they did a couple of years ago 

They really do.  If only they could learn to eat a meal facing one another rather than side by side.

[Suzn]

1 hour ago, ginger90 said:

 

 

4 pictures, 4th is a video:

 

 

 

"mine and Derick's marriage tips" 

Yeah, they are experts and people are clamoring for their advice.  I know it seems that people are seeing this couple as much "improved".  I see the same arrogant bullshit - they see themselves are all knowing and superior.

[Nysha]

It's common for YouTubers to put up "tips and advice" on how they do whatever they do regardless of their actual expertise in that area. It's up there with selfies and morning routine videos, just routine crap to throw on the web in hopes of hits.

[Suzn]

4 minutes ago, Nysha said:

It's common for YouTubers to put up "tips and advice" on how they do whatever they do regardless of their actual expertise in that area. It's up there with selfies and morning routine videos, just routine crap to throw on the web in hopes of hits.

Yeah, I get that, but I find it exceedingly annoying.

[BetyBee]

On 7/3/2020 at 2:16 PM, Madtown said:

I think I'm more surprised at Derick not wearing a shirt than how skinny he is. I would think no shirt would be off limits outside in public. Maybe there have been pictures of him without one before and I missed it.

Maybe he's tired of puking on his t-shirts 🤮 when his gag reflex kicks in. 😜

[Nysha]

10 minutes ago, Suzn said:

Yeah, I get that, but I find it exceedingly annoying.

Since I gave up TV and turned to YouTube for entertainment I've become numb to the banality that is inherent in media influencers and wanna-bees. I'm all "Oh, bless your little brain." then switch to a different video. 

[JoanArc]

44 minutes ago, Suzn said:

"mine and Derick's marriage tips" 

Yeah, they are experts and people are clamoring for their advice.  I know it seems that people are seeing this couple as much "improved".  I see the same arrogant bullshit - they see themselves are all knowing and superior.

A Zebra doesn’t change it’s stripes all at once.  It’ll still be years of sifting through what is appropriate and inappropriate for these two.  If they can eventually stop the grifting, advice giving, white saviorism, lust for worldly power, and general distrust of the outside world, I think things will be much more improved. Getting the boys in school, Jill in therapy, and maybe steady jobs for both parents will do a lot. I wish they could make honest friends, but given their pseudocelebrity status it’ll be a while.

[QuinnInND]

2 hours ago, doodlebug said:

 If only they could learn to eat a meal facing one another rather than side by side.

But they're in luv! They've got to be next to each other all the time, especially in a restaurant. How else would everyone know they're in luv?  😂

[Tigregirl]

4 hours ago, ginger90 said:

 

 

4 pictures, 4th is a video:

 

Jill looks very pretty, happy and relaxed in the 2nd picture.

 

 

[GeeGolly]

Jill even orders beige food.

[Suzn]

4 hours ago, JoanArc said:

A Zebra doesn’t change it’s stripes all at once.  It’ll still be years of sifting through what is appropriate and inappropriate for these two.  If they can eventually stop the grifting, advice giving, white saviorism, lust for worldly power, and general distrust of the outside world, I think things will be much more improved. Getting the boys in school, Jill in therapy, and maybe steady jobs for both parents will do a lot. I wish they could make honest friends, but given their pseudocelebrity status it’ll be a while.

I really don't see them on that trajectory.  Jill has become more like Derick, but I don't see vast positive changes.  It would be expected that she would follow the lead of her "headship", just as Jinger seems to have done.

Don't mind me, I'm feeling cranky and cynical today...

[latetotheparty]

Both Jill and Jinger have toned the eyeliner way down. It’s a good look on both of them.  If only their views were so easily amended. 

[JoanArc]

7 minutes ago, Suzn said:

I really don't see them on that trajectory.  Jill has become more like Derick, but I don't see vast positive changes.  It would be expected that she would follow the lead of her "headship", just as Jinger seems to have done.

Don't mind me, I'm feeling cranky and cynical today...

 No, I can actually agree with your position. If she just becomes a female Derreck it’s going to be sad. But, I don’t think anyone ever saw her coming this far. So, we are all optimistic and happy for her. I think Derreck himself would benefit from some counseling, and think maybe he is going, at least in a group situation with Jill.  Honestly, I doubt his later childhood and early adulthood were very happy, and hers definitely was not. I think sticking with a therapist will put her on some sort of self-improvement trajectory,  but who knows where it will end up.  I would hope for the both of them that they grow a bit less conservative, a bit more tolerant, more hard working, and less isolated. Stopping trying to run the world would be awesome too. I absolutely do not think it will be possible to return to the Gotthardism, Once you’re out, you’re out. Derek Deconverted,  and Jill probably can’t talk her way back in at this point either. 

I think the best thing to come out of this, is breaking the breeding cycle, and producing offspring that are psychologically OK. Israel and Sam becoming whole people, not stilted robots, who are free to make their own choices, own mistakes, Not forced onto a like trajectory like their parents were, will be the happiest possible outcome.

 On an unrelated note, apparently Derreck has a new post up.  It has generally good advice, but says that you need to be having sex five or six days a week. Relax horn dog, relax. Just because a woman wouldn’t give you the time a day until you bought one from her dad doesn’t mean you need to overcompensate now. 

[tabloidlover]

Link?

[Sew Sumi]

Derelict's sex post is on their blog, and it's at least a year old. It was the male counterpart to Jill's lotion and sex 3-4 times a week post.

[Absolom]

30 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

Derek Deconverted,

Derick was never in Gothardism.  He's been SBC all through it all.  

[JoanArc]

54 minutes ago, Absolom said:

Derick was never in Gothardism.  He's been SBC all through it all.  

Metaphorically. He pretty obviously tried to live the Gothard/Duggar lifestyle. A lot of people convert to their spouse’s religion, only to deconvert later.  It’s pretty obvious he gave it some kind of shot, but it didn’t stick.  Plus, the insidious thing about there  ‘Faith’  is there’s not really a formal joining process aside from joining ATI.  Now Jill is converting to his more liberal faith. 

What with BLM, protesting and such, I’d love to see their defense of the SBC’s Founding over slavery, and their general support of segregation.  Isn’t the head of the SBC their pastor?

[Absolom]

I'm not sure he did try to follow Gothard.  He and Jill went to his same SBC church from the wedding on.  He may have given some lip service to JB initially and they did conceive Israel very quickly, but I don't think he ever really bought into ATI and such.  

[Sew Sumi]

9 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

Metaphorically. He pretty obviously tried to live the Gothard/Duggar lifestyle. A lot of people convert to their spouse’s religion, only to deconvert later.  It’s pretty obvious he gave it some kind of shot, but it didn’t stick.  Plus, the insidious thing about there  ‘Faith’  is there’s not really a formal joining process aside from joining ATI.  Now Jill is converting to his more liberal faith. 

What with BLM, protesting and such, I’d love to see their defense of the SBC’s Founding over slavery, and their general support of segregation.  Isn’t the head of the SBC their pastor?

Ronnie Floyd was head of the SBC and Cross Church (isn't that their church's name?) simultaneously from 2014-16. Jill and Derelict were married by one of their everyday pastors.

[JoanArc]

3 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Ronnie Floyd was head of the SBC and Cross Church (isn't that their church's name?) simultaneously from 2014-16. Jill and Derelict were married by one of their everyday pastors.

Thanks.  It’s kind of a blur. 

[ginger90]