Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[Nysha]

18 minutes ago, kokapetl said:

I think the cooking classes are a good idea.

This! Especially if she took  "healthy dishes your child will love" classes or preschool mommy & me cooking classes with Sam. She would get out of the house, be around other mothers, and learn to cook meals that aren't predominately beige.

[GeeGolly]

I think CNA and Home Health Aid are out of Jill's wheelhouse. I don't see her going into random homes unescorted. Maybe a CNA at a nursing home, but I don't think she could do it. CNA is very different than fake midwifery. One doesn't just show up, hang for a few hours, hug a baby and then go home and do nothing for a few weeks/months. And nursing homes have men with penises.

I think like others have posted, room mother, PTO are more her speed and she still has Sammy at home.

[sATL]

47 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I think CNA and Home Health Aid are out of Jill's wheelhouse. I don't see her going into random homes unescorted. Maybe a CNA at a nursing home, but I don't think she could do it. CNA is very different than fake midwifery. One doesn't just show up, hang for a few hours, hug a baby and then go home and do nothing for a few weeks/months. And nursing homes have men with penises.

I think like others have posted, room mother, PTO are more her speed and she still has Sammy at home.

😂😂

One concern I have about being room mother - which will depend upon the school - is how open is Jill to diversity and new ideas of others? Is she still thinking or wanting everyone to be like her and her beliefs?

For example, I have a family member whose elementary school seems to celebrate (and sometimes over celebrate- but I will let that go) every holiday/culture theme of the time of year - Halloween, Black History, Hanukkah, Diwali, the sports team of the season is the championship (ie everyone wears t-shirt/colors of xyz team), Valentines Day, Pie Day, St Patrick's Day, Cinco De Mayo, etc. Yes, Jill can help - does she first 1st need basic understanding of what is the background, historical reference of what is going on ? How much of a bubble is she still in?

Other than that - yes - if they need a parent who will make sure they have items for the "100 days of school " (yes - I have been a contributor of that production too), then she will be fine.

Would love to see how she handles her assigned group of little darlings on a field trip...darlings of different personalities than Izzy. 🍿

Edited February 23, 2020 by sATL

[JoanArc]

4 hours ago, BradandJanet said:

It's probably like starting over in a new country, especially one that's unfamiliar and very different from the home country, and the move was not planned or desired. She may be thinking back to her experiences in Danger America. It must be very frightening to her if she and Derick are really post-Duggar now. 

Post-Duggar.  I hope she realizes that if she ever wants to go back, it has to be pretty much literally right now. Otherwise, she’s going to change too much I can’t go back into that fold.  It will be interesting to see just how far the shunning goes.  For a big loving supportive Jell-O mold of a family she’ll be kept at extreme arm’s length at best.  

 The bridge is already burned. 

[BradandJanet]

17 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

Post-Duggar.  I hope she realizes that if she ever wants to go back, it has to be pretty much literally right now. Otherwise, she’s going to change too much I can’t go back into that fold.  It will be interesting to see just how far the shunning goes.  For a big loving supportive Jell-O mold of a family she’ll be kept at extreme arm’s length at best.  

 The bridge is already burned. 

Going back would involve leaving her husband and children behind, emotionally if not also physically. Derick has no reason to embrace the Duggars again; he's apparently not dependent on JB's money. Jill's choice is to move on with her husband or stay suspended between two opposing and sometimes warring parties. If she's strong, she'll move ahead. 

[mynextmistake]

I’ve actually long suspected that Derick is far more mainstream than many people think. He didn’t grow up IBLP or really fundie at all. He grew up in an ordinary Southern Baptist church, attended public school, and went to college.  I honestly don’t think he has a problem with women having jobs or wearing pants, using birth control, vaccinating his kids, or sending them to public school. I also suspect that he is less conservative in his private life than many people would assume. We’ve seen him dancing and listening to mainstream music, and he probably enjoys a beer occasionally and even streams guilty pleasure shows on Netflix.  His beliefs about abortion, gay and transgender individuals, and probably any number of other social issues are not my beliefs and I find them abhorrant. However, I don’t think his position on these issues is any different than that of millions and millions of people who attend conservative churches and even many who do not. They aren’t “extremist“ in the sense that they’re in any way unusual. 

I think Derick was drawn to Jim Bob (and therefore Jill) at a relatively young age because he had lost his father and was searching for some sense of security. Beliefs like the Duggars’ appeal to people like Derick because the world seems too complicated and the hard and fast rules of IBLP make everything easier.  But I think, and I will be frank, Derick was just too smart to stay IBLP for the rest of his life. Obviously something happened that put him on the outs with the Duggars, and while there’s been a lot of speculation I don’t think we know exactly what that was. But to a certain extent, I don’t think it matters, because I think Derick would’ve left that fold eventually anyway. I think their beliefs were just far too rigid and insular, and I think there was a point, probably after Izzy’s birth, when Derek woke up and thought “most of these rules don’t even make any sense — is this what I want for my kids?” Obviously it wasn’t, so they got out of there and have gone back to the beliefs that Derek grew up with and on some level probably never lost in the first place. And frankly, I think that that is a huge improvement over being raised in the Duggar compound. The boys might still grow up learning that being gay is a sin, for example, but they will also meet actual gay people and at some point get to make up their own minds. That never would’ve happened at the TTH. 

The one who I think is having a really hard time here is Jill. But I think humans have a tendency to eventually reject the things that have rejected us. I imagine Jill feels rejected by Jim Bob and Michelle, and maybe that, along with pressure from Derek, made her realize that IBLP and homeschooling were not the only way to go. Or it’s possible that she just realized that she wasn’t cut out to homeschool. Not every parent makes a good homeschool teacher. I personally would totally suck at it, not because I’m stupid but because I tend to be impatient and don’t enjoy teaching.  I don’t get the sense Jill really likes it either, but just does it out of the feeling of obligation. It may have been freeing to her when Derek suggested putting the boys in public school.  Anyway, it’s a huge step, and one that I’m glad that they took. I think the boys will be better off for it. 

Edited February 24, 2020 by mynextmistake

[farmgal4]

6 hours ago, Oldernowiser said:

Another alternative...donate to this charity In Israel’s honor...

https://www.kinf.org/

This is just me, but they have enough money to buy a house, put Derrick through law school, and own two vehicles. Plenty of parents do better by their kids with lots less.

Getting donated money for educating their children...not so much.

Great idea!  Thank you! ♥️

[galaxychaser]

I guess Sammy will go to a real school too.

I don’t think Jill is interested in school. I think she will sit by the door waiting for her men to come home.

Jobwise she will definitely be Dereck secretary. She won’t allow another woman to be with him 8 hours a day.

She will find her way in life. We all do.

[Minivanessa]

@mynextmistake, I wish I could like your post more than once. I also see Derick as a mainstream Arkansas Southern Baptist guy whose life took a short detour into Duggar World and all its fundie/IBLP rules. Of course, he emerged from that detour with a wife and two kids, so it wasn't a minor phase.

I don't know that Derick even understood the central role of the IBLP and Gothard in the Duggars' lives, until after he'd married Jill. 

He was in Nepal, a young guy full of religious fervor, when he got so involved with the Duggars, starting with JB. His dad had died suddenly a few years before, and his mom was fighting cancer. I think Derick may have had the TLC and mass media view of the Duggars as this huge wholesome Christian family, and we know that JB and TLC have humped like mad to scrub the IBLP/Gothard connection from the show and mainstream publicity.

Derick may have thought the Duggars were just an extra strict but innocuous version of the Southern Baptists who made up so much of his world back home. And since he wasn't back home, moving in church circles where he'd probably have found out about the IBLP, IFB, Gothards and other such things - he only knew what JB wanted him to. 

So there was this big happy Christian family, and the absolutely irresistible part was that without the hassles of dating, he could join it and acquire a virtuous pure educated young Christian wife who would be at his side for his IMB missionary career. For a lonely and probably normally horny 20-something guy, that must have been like a winning lottery ticket!

Edited February 24, 2020 by Jeeves

[fonfereksglen]

2 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

@mynextmistake, I wish I could like your post more than once. I also see Derick as a mainstream Arkansas Southern Baptist guy whose life took a short detour into Duggar World and all its fundie/IBLP rules. Of course, he emerged from that detour with a wife and two kids, so it wasn't a minor phase.

I don't know that Derick even understood the central role of the IBLP and Gothard in the Duggars' lives, until after he'd married Jill. 

He was in Nepal, a young guy full of religious fervor, when he got so involved with the Duggars, starting with JB. His dad had died suddenly a few years before, and his mom was fighting cancer. I think Derick may have had the TLC and mass media view of the Duggars as this huge wholesome Christian family, and we know that JB and TLC have humped like mad to scrub the IBLP/Gothard connection from the show and mainstream publicity.

Derick may have thought the Duggars were just an extra strict but innocuous version of the Southern Baptists who made up so much of his world back home. And since he wasn't back home, moving in church circles where he'd probably have found out about the IBLP, IFB, Gothards and other such things - he only knew what JB wanted him to. 

So there was this big happy Christian family, and the absolutely irresistible part was that without the hassles of dating, he could join it and acquire a virtuous pure educated young Christian wife who would be at his side for his IMB missionary career. For a lonely and probably normally horny 20-something guy, that must have been like a winning lottery ticket!

Perfect ..... but you have to add in ...... Josh.   When did Derick find out?  This is most asked question about his marriage,  the damage suffered by Jill,  and his subsequent relationship with all things Duggar.

[Sew Sumi]

Derelict saw the light earlier than we might think. About a year ago, he wrote a blog about the value of Christian wives. He praised his mother (acknowledging her education and work) and Jill to the stars. He has the utmost confidence in Jill's abilities. 

He also cast some shade at the Duggars when he noted that wearing skirts and long hair didn't make one a "better" Christian. Burn! 

[Minivanessa]

1 minute ago, fonfereksglen said:

Perfect ..... but you have to add in ...... Josh.   When did Derick find out?  This is most asked question about his marriage,  the damage suffered by Jill,  and his subsequent relationship with all things Duggar.

You're absolutely right. Maybe he'll tell us in the book he's writing. 😉

[Albanyguy]

25 minutes ago, fonfereksglen said:

Perfect ..... but you have to add in ...... Josh.   When did Derick find out?  This is most asked question about his marriage

I am convinced that both Derick and Ben were kept on a need-to-know basis and only found out about the molestation a few hours before the rest of the world did. I think that Jill and Jessa were instructed by their parents at the time of their engagements not to breathe a word about what Josh did to them, probably with a good dose of "It's for your own good...if he finds out, he'll think he married damaged goods...he'll never look at you the same way again". After all, how could Jim Bob be certain that Derick or Ben could be trusted to keep their mouths shut? Then, when Josh was abruptly fired by the FRC and it was clear that the shit was about to hit the media fan, he either gave the girls permission to tell their husbands or summoned the boys to a meeting at the TTH to brief them himself.

[Zella]

6 minutes ago, Albanyguy said:

I am convinced that both Derick and Ben were kept on a need-to-know basis and only found out about the molestation a few hours before the rest of the world did. I think that Jill and Jessa were instructed by their parents at the time of their engagements not to breathe a word about what Josh did to them, probably with a good dose of "It's for your own good...if he finds out, he'll think he married damaged goods...he'll never look at you the same way again". After all, how could Jim Bob be certain that Derick or Ben could be trusted to keep their mouths shut? Then, when Josh was abruptly fired by the FRC and it was clear that the shit was about to hit the media fan, he either gave the girls permission to tell their husbands or summoned the boys to a meeting at the TTH to brief them himself.

This is my theory too. I don't think it was disclosed to any of the sons-in-law until it was basically forced upon them to do so. I'm also not sure that whatever was allegedly told to Anna really matched the reality of anything that happened since the family's party line even now obfuscates and minimizes the full extent of what happened.  

[Spencer Hastings]

41 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Derelict saw the light earlier than we might think.

I think he saw the light pretty early on, possibly with the help of Cathy.  She made a few snarky comments the few times she was on the show.  “Now you can finally talk alone” and “I followed the same book as you (in reference to Michelle saying she raised a Godly man).”  

She seemed to have little patience for their rules and holier than the next Christian attitude. If she was able to get those jabs in on camera, I can only imagine the ear full she gave him behind closed doors. 

[Oldernowiser]

41 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

You're absolutely right. Maybe he'll tell us in the book he's writing. 😉

I remain completely skeptical about this potential book...he and his sketchy publisher will tease the crap out of it being “the real story behind the Duggar story” and then it will turn out to be 198 badly-written pages about Pistol Pete and Derick finding Jesus for $19.95 preorder and $0.25 used two weeks later.

As for the Josh thing... I don’t believe the family deliberately kept it from Derick or Ben or whoever else at all because they had buried it just that deep. If you’ve ever lived in a family that 100% denied anything they didn’t want to admit was true, you know exactly what I’m talking about. 

Nobody in the family allowed themselves or anyone else a second thought about Josh’s little hobby until they had no choice because it threatened the cash flow.

[Zella]

7 minutes ago, Oldernowiser said:

I remain completely skeptical about this potential book...he and his sketchy publisher will tease the crap out of it being “the real story behind the Duggar story” and then it will turn out to be 198 badly-written pages about Pistol Pete and Derick finding Jesus for $19.95 preorder and $0.25 used two weeks later.

I also am skeptical about the book, simply because I feel like people who spend this much time threatening to write a book rarely follow through.

If he does actually go through with it, I think as pissy as Derick has been on Twitter, there will definitely be some heavy-duty ranting about JB because I do think his rage at JB is authentic, as well as the inevitable Pistol Pete-ing and missionary vacationing in Asia and Latin America. 

But I still think whatever is said will ultimately be tainted by the fact that Derick has shown himself to omit facts and twist words when the truth doesn't suit him. I'd love to hear his uncensored version of what happened because I have no doubt he has good reason to be mad at JB, but I wouldn't accept what he said at face-value at all, and I am sure his version will make him less culpable. Rather than the old Russian proverb about "Trust, but verify," my version for Derick is "Don't trust, and verify." 

Ultimately, I'm all for Jill and Derick giving JB the middle finger and doing their own thing--all the power to them--but I still don't give Derick the benefit of the doubt on anything. 

Edited February 24, 2020 by Zella

[farmgal4]

On 2/22/2020 at 9:09 PM, Temperance said:

Let's hope Alyssa changes her mind as her kids get older. She is not the brightest person. I also wonder if she'll want a real education for her husband's heir once junior arrives.

Joy's husband comes from the most conservative background and the only one who is IBLP. Ben's parents were fundie, but seem to have some common sense. Derick and Jeremy come from more mainstream backgrounds.  Joy and Austin seem really good together, but both of them keep the other one bound to fundamentalism. 

Is Alyssa pregnant again?

[farmgal4]

7 hours ago, hathorlive said:

I think someone mentioned Jill being an CNA upthread, which she could easily do.  It's the one of the lowest levels of care giving.  I don't think Jill is stupid, I just think she is woefully uneducated.  But that said, there are many just like her in America and they find ways to get jobs.  I would be happy if Jill did something for Jill.  Just for the pleasure of doing it. No J.O.Y., just something that she wants to do.   I think with Derrick's encouragement and copious amounts of free time, she could go back to school.

I’d like to believe that one of the primary reasons why Israel is going to a real school is because Jill has realized how woefully uneducated she truly is, and she wants better for her sons.  I may be wrong; Jill may not possess that much self-awareness.

[Growsonwalls]

I think Derick is just a typical conservative Southern Baptist. Maybe a little more religious than most. But I really think once he married the Duggars the extreme fundie ways weirded him out. For instance I don’t think he spent his Christmases with Cathy on his dad’s lap reciting Bible verses. You can see in Jessa’s video that even Abbie and Lauren weren’t loving that part.

[mynextmistake]

19 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

I think Derick is just a typical conservative Southern Baptist. Maybe a little more religious than most. But I really think once he married the Duggars the extreme fundie ways weirded him out. For instance I don’t think he spent his Christmases with Cathy on his dad’s lap reciting Bible verses. You can see in Jessa’s video that even Abbie and Lauren weren’t loving that part.

I think it’s telling that both J.D. and Abbie were raised Gothard but decided to attend a normal southern Baptish church. I have the feeling that Abbie tasted a normal life when she was working and was not interested in going back to a dreary life of long denim skirts and yearly home births. That may be why it took a bit longer for her to marry — she had to wait for a guy who was willing to let her live a more modern life. 

[mynextmistake]

1 hour ago, farmgal4 said:

I’d like to believe that one of the primary reasons why Israel is going to a real school is because Jill has realized how woefully uneducated she truly is, and she wants better for her sons.  I may be wrong; Jill may not possess that much self-awareness.

I think we underestimate Jill sometimes. I don’t see any signs that she’s particularly intelligent but she’s not a moron. She got her GED and passed the lay midwifery exam. She knows how to read and write and can presumably add, subtract, multiply and divide. In terms of subject matter knowledge, I think she could get the boys through at least the first few years of grade school, especially if she used a reputable curriculum to aid her teaching.

Whether she’s temperamentally suited for homeschooling is an entirely different question, though.

[Zella]

27 minutes ago, mynextmistake said:

 

Whether she’s temperamentally suited for homeschooling is an entirely different question, though.

Yes, I see that being Jill's biggest potential problem, too, and it's one reason I am glad that, for whatever reason, they made this decision.

I've personally witnessed a quite a few homeschool moms have that realization about themselves but still be pressured into continuing with it by other homeschool families, with arguments about public schools being evil (very much along the line of what that one hysterical idiot was posting in Jill's comments), despite the parent or child or both being temperamentally unsuited for it. if it continues on long enough, it often results in a pretty toxic set-up or everything being passed off on other siblings to handle, which is problematic on its own too. 

[Temperance]

3 hours ago, farmgal4 said:

Is Alyssa pregnant again?

No. Alyssa wants to have more kids so John can have a boy, but they're taking it slow for her health issues. 

1 hour ago, mynextmistake said:

I think it’s telling that both J.D. and Abbie were raised Gothard but decided to attend a normal southern Baptish church. I have the feeling that Abbie tasted a normal life when she was working and was not interested in going back to a dreary life of long denim skirts and yearly home births. That may be why it took a bit longer for her to marry — she had to wait for a guy who was willing to let her live a more modern life. 

It's surprising to me if JD is that guy. He seemed just as fundie as the rest of his family when he was younger. Like a lot of fundie boys (he was a teen), he was hung up on gender roles. Hopefully he's growing/evolving away from that. I agree it's a good sign they picked a normal church.  

1 hour ago, mynextmistake said:

I think we underestimate Jill sometimes. I don’t see any signs that she’s particularly intelligent but she’s not a moron. She got her GED and passed the lay midwifery exam. She knows how to read and write and can presumably add, subtract, multiply and divide. In terms of subject matter knowledge, I think she could get the boys through at least the first few years of grade school, especially if she used a reputable curriculum to aid her teaching.

Whether she’s temperamentally suited for homeschooling is an entirely different question, though.

I agree with this and I also add that whether she's temperamentally suited for nursing is a different issue.

[GeeGolly]

It can't take too long into a Duggar pre-courtship to realize the Duggar family has a lot of uncommon strict rules. By the time Ben, Derick and Jeremy moved into the courtship stage they (and their families) knew how things were done. They all moved forward anyway. I'm guessing Jeremy even expressed his bewilderment of some of the rules with Jinger during their courtship.

As far as the molestations I don't think anyone would need to worry that a new inlaw would share that publicly. I think Ben, Derick, Jeremy and Austin love their wives and would not want to hurt them by discussing something so personal with the masses.

I think the sons-in-law are all religiously conservative and Derick the most conservative of them all, with Austin coming in a close second. To me the Gothard rules just take conservative beliefs to an openly arrogant and self-sacrificing level.

I still see Derick as an angry hateful dude who is immature and vengeful. 

[Fig Newton]

Mazel Tov to Izzy ! How exciting that heWILL BE GOING TO SCHOOL !! I am sure nobody could have predicted this. For a brief moment in time, I am going to forego the shitcake that is anything Duggar and just be happy that a Duggar child is going to school.

Izzy looked so excited. I was just so happy for him. All this new energy and unprecedented experiences are really going to be great for this family. Color me impressed that Poppa was also there for registration. Jill genuinely looked happy. I hope this all goes well and these kids get the education they deserve.

I have NO doubt that Jeremy in particular is fuming, maybe a  bit more than JimBo. This announcement absolutely sucks the wind out of the Vuolos. They are the Breakout Stars, how dare Jill and Derick do something so normal and mainstream. I bet JinJer didn't see that one coming. They are really going to have to up their game. I mean, a coffee post, or a picture of a burger that Jinger is not eating with a toddler staring aimlessly on her lap just.might.not.cut.it. This is going to be gooooooooooooooood.  Either Felicity gets Jesus himself to teach her or Jeremy undergoes gender reassignment. That's the only way they can steal that spotlight back. Breakout stars....pffffft !! 

Yay, Jill and Derick. YAY. YAY! YAY! YAY!

YAY!

🤗

[Madtown]

12 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Derelict saw the light earlier than we might think. About a year ago, he wrote a blog about the value of Christian wives. He praised his mother (acknowledging her education and work) and Jill to the stars. He has the utmost confidence in Jill's abilities. 

He also cast some shade at the Duggars when he noted that wearing skirts and long hair didn't make one a "better" Christian. Burn! 

Seeing what his mother accomplished in the bolded part(bolding part mine), I'm really hoping that Derick encourages Jill to either get some education in something or at least a part time job(baby steps with the part time)when both boys are in school full time(hoping this will be the case). Jill will go out of her mind sitting in that house by herself all day by herself. We've seen the "before kids" Jill when she was constantly going by Derick at Walmart. Don't know what Derick will be doing with his "law" degree as far as a job, but it's not something Jill is going to be by his side the whole time the kids are in school. It will be interesting to watch what goes on in the next year.

I also think that Derick saw the light much earlier than we think. I don't find him dumb in some sense of things. His beliefs are nothing with what I agree with and he does have quite a bit of cruelity in him, but he's pulled Jill away from her horrible parents. He also seems to be giving his kids(or at least Izzy right now)a chance at "normalcy" when it comes to school anyway. I'm sure this all hasn't been easy for Jill, but hopefully Derick is letting her see the light as well. 

It's been said that Jill has drank the most kool-aid in this family and maybe she thought she would have to have 20 kids like her mom. Whether she can have more or was told not to have any more, we will never know. If her not having anymore is Derick saying, "we aren't having 20 kids, we are done at two", then good for him. Jill can barely handle the two she has. I sometimes wonder if she has resentment that she didn't have a girl and may never have a chance to have that girl, but she I hope they are truly done with kids.

I'm curious to see how she does with having to be on a schedule once Izzy starts school. As much as the kids need a schedule, she for sure needs one too. I think she'll be overwhelmed at first, but hopefully she'll adapt well and Izzy will absolutely love school and make so many new friends.

[Dimi1]

11 hours ago, farmgal4 said:

I’d like to believe that one of the primary reasons why Israel is going to a real school is because Jill has realized how woefully uneducated she truly is, and she wants better for her sons.  I may be wrong; Jill may not possess that much self-awareness.

I think she must be undergoing intense therapy...these type of decisions have to be coming/and coping...with the help of someone to walk her through them...I think we will see more changes in the family....I also think this was "speeded up" by JB....as in he made a BIG boundary  at the big house and with the remaining family who follows him...I think this is the catalyst that finally forced Jill to HAVE to make changes..because all she had ever known had been cut off....JB and M really did her a favor....

[Tasya]

I'm so glad that Israel is going to school. I think that Derick and Jill are going to slowly ease away from all things fundie. As far as their religious beliefs, they don't even register for me. As a black Christian, I am used to intolerance for others in regards to sexuality. I personally do not adhere to those beliefs, but in my experience most minorities do. I think it's something that is really unspoken in this country but it's true. For me, as long as people don't actively try to impose their belief system on others, I don't have a problem with them. When Derick spoke out about Jazz, I had an issue because he was trying to impose his views on others. As long as they stay away from stuff like that, I will wish them the best. 

As far as Jeremy and Jinger being upset about this, I think people are projecting. I don't think that much of what goes on in Arkansas matters to those two at all. I also don't think there was ever a chance that Felicity wasn't going to attend some sort of school. Jinger was always the least interested in "mothering" her buddy group and the fact that she has only 1 child right now (Joy does but only because of her tragedy) doesn't surprise me at all. I don't think that Jinger and Jeremy will have more than 3 kids and that's only if child number 2 is a girl. If they get a boy on the next try, they will likely be done. 

[3 is enough]

Holy crap!  I was away for a little while and I come back to see this?  I was finding everything Duggar very boring and did not even look in while I was away.

This is wonderful.  I am so happy for Israel, and what a huge step for Jill.

[MonicaM]

Although this is a wonderful first step, Israel will need to go to school two or three years in a row before I will completely believe that Jill is capable of going along with the program.

My guess is that Israel is very "book smart" and will do well in school.  However, he is also going to come home at some point with some idea Jill hates, or an off color joke, or language that's too offensive to repeat.  I hated it when this started happening with my own sons, but I knew it was normal and part of them learning to live in the world with people who were different from them.  

I'm nervous that Jill will see this as a reason to revert to the isolation and home schooling of her own childhood.  I hope she doesn't report every little incident on her social media and give her fundie followers reason to encourage her to stop the real education.  

[Zella]

7 minutes ago, MonicaM said:

Although this is a wonderful first step, Israel will need to go to school two or three years in a row before I will completely believe that Jill is capable of going along with the program.

My guess is that Israel is very "book smart" and will do well in school.  However, he is also going to come home at some point with some idea Jill hates, or an off color joke, or language that's too offensive to repeat.  I hated it when this started happening with my own sons, but I knew it was normal and part of them learning to live in the world with people who were different from them.  

I'm nervous that Jill will see this as a reason to revert to the isolation and home schooling of her own childhood.  I hope she doesn't report every little incident on her social media and give her fundie followers reason to encourage her to stop the real education.  

This is a good point. I'm also concerned the schedule aspect might defeat Jill. It still startled me how much the other in-laws commented on this during the marriage retreat episode (the only one I've watched) and how shell-shocked they all looked while talking about it. I can't detect much of a routine in anything they do, but maybe that's something they can practice over the next several months without the pressure of school. 

[Oldernowiser]

I woke upon the cynical side this morning...a lot can happen between February and September. 

For those who are familiar with this process, do kids usually register this far in advance?

[crazy8s]

1 minute ago, Oldernowiser said:

For those who are familiar with this process, do kids usually register this far in advance?

my grandson is Izzy's age and he is going to kindergarten sign up next week.

there were also signs and stations in Jill's video for sign up day.

so yes, normal in some places

[Zella]

14 minutes ago, Oldernowiser said:

I woke upon the cynical side this morning...a lot can happen between February and September. 

I agree a lot can happen between now and then, but he would actually be starting school in August. I just checked and the 1st day back at Rogers schools will be August 13, which is pretty much when most of the school districts around me are going back too.  

[Temperance]

10 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

It can't take too long into a Duggar pre-courtship to realize the Duggar family has a lot of uncommon strict rules. By the time Ben, Derick and Jeremy moved into the courtship stage they (and their families) knew how things were done. They all moved forward anyway. I'm guessing Jeremy even expressed his bewilderment of some of the rules with Jinger during their courtship.

As far as the molestations I don't think anyone would need to worry that a new inlaw would share that publicly. I think Ben, Derick, Jeremy and Austin love their wives and would not want to hurt them by discussing something so personal with the masses.

I think the sons-in-law are all religiously conservative and Derick the most conservative of them all, with Austin coming in a close second. To me the Gothard rules just take conservative beliefs to an openly arrogant and self-sacrificing level.

I still see Derick as an angry hateful dude who is immature and vengeful. 

Derick is not the most conservative.  Austin is the most conservative. Austin was raised fundie/IBLP and I'm still waiting for signs he has in any significant way moved away from his upbringing. Jeremy seems fine, but his church still seems extremely retrograde and sexist. Ben has interesting political views, and may be less conservative than Derick.

It is a conservative notion that we need to save face and preserve decorum and make things look nice and not tell family secrets. There's a reason JB and Michelle like the idea so much! The Duggars have done bad things to their kids. From covering up the molestations to the sad state of their homeschooling to putting the kids on television, they deserve a comeuppance. The Duggars showed up on television and pretended to be perfect. They justified the show by saying it was ministry meaning they were hoping to "save" people and convert them to their way of life. Derick is not the person I would chose to write a tell-all, but maybe other members of the family will be inspired to write their stories. 

[Nysha]

While I agree that Jill will probably freak out the first time Israel spouts off a curse word or something that doesn't follow her beliefs, I don't think Derick will. Israel will probably be harshly disciplined, but Derick went to public school and came out a Christian so I doubt that will be something that makes him pull Israel out.

I would not be surprised if Jill gets pregnant once Sam is in Kindergarten and I think she'll be a more relaxed mother this time around. This would be the first baby that she's not dealing with external change and turmoil, she's not under pressure to breed for TLC, and hopefully Derick will demand a hospital birth from the start so she's not physically drained as well as emotionally.

[Tasya]

I don't know the demographics of the school system they are in, but unless they are in a low income area, they probably won't come in contact with too much "off color" stuff at Israel's age. I've worked in the DC school system for 15 years now, and the only time I have heard things from the littles that would make me raise an eyebrow is in the areas with a lower income demographic. Also, given the area of the country they are in, I'd bet that most of the families they come in contact with will have similar beliefs to theirs 

[Zella]

28 minutes ago, Tasya said:

Also, given the area of the country they are in, I'd bet that most of the families they come in contact with will have similar beliefs to theirs 

This is an oversimplification of the NWA Metro area. Hell, even the rural county I am in has some rather sizable minority groups and more variety to the political flavor than one would expect in Arkansas. 

They will undoubtedly meet other white conservative Christian families through school--Rogers is definitely less alternative than Fayetteville in its vibe--but I think it is an exaggeration to just assume that most of the families they will come into contact with will be just like them. Rogers has a pretty good-sized Hispanic population, for example. 

Edited February 24, 2020 by Zella

[Growsonwalls]

5 hours ago, Zella said:

This is a good point. I'm also concerned the schedule aspect might defeat Jill. It still startled me how much the other in-laws commented on this during the marriage retreat episode (the only one I've watched) and how shell-shocked they all looked while talking about it. I can't detect much of a routine in anything they do, but maybe that's something they can practice over the next several months without the pressure of school. 

That one shocked me too. All the in-laws were like "YES!!!" re: the lack of structure. I imagine that must wear on people day-to-day. Imagine booking say a doctor's appointment. Without structure and schedule the Duggars are probably constantly running late. Since they don't do outside entertainment there's not even a "okay we have to get to the movie theater in time" sense of structure. They don't watch sports so there's no "Superbowl kickoff is at 6." 

[Zella]

2 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

That one shocked me too. All the in-laws were like "YES!!!" re: the lack of structure. I imagine that must wear on people day-to-day. Imagine booking say a doctor's appointment. Without structure and schedule the Duggars are probably constantly running late. Since they don't do outside entertainment there's not even a "okay we have to get to the movie theater in time" sense of structure. They don't watch sports so there's no "Superbowl kickoff is at 6." 

YES! I came away from that episode thinking that Ben, Abby, and Kendra needed to start their own underground support group. "Schedulers Among Duggars." I'm pretty sure they were the ones most vocal about it. 

I'm an organized person by nature, for the most part, and I just could not deal with that either. 

[lookeyloo]

Interestingly my daughter in law’s sister (a children’s crisis social worker) and her attorney husband can’t get anywhere on time. We always tell them an hour earlier - their oldest daughter started school and she never wanted to be late so she hustled her parents along.  In 3rd grade and never a tardy.  So maybe Israel will hustle his parents, probably mother, along. 

Edited February 24, 2020 by lookeyloo

[GeeGolly]

3 hours ago, Temperance said:

Derick is not the most conservative.  Austin is the most conservative. Austin was raised fundie/IBLP and I'm still waiting for signs he has in any significant way moved away from his upbringing. Jeremy seems fine, but his church still seems extremely retrograde and sexist. Ben has interesting political views, and may be less conservative than Derick.

It is a conservative notion that we need to save face and preserve decorum and make things look nice and not tell family secrets. There's a reason JB and Michelle like the idea so much! The Duggars have done bad things to their kids. From covering up the molestations to the sad state of their homeschooling to putting the kids on television, they deserve a comeuppance. The Duggars showed up on television and pretended to be perfect. They justified the show by saying it was ministry meaning they were hoping to "save" people and convert them to their way of life. Derick is not the person I would chose to write a tell-all, but maybe other members of the family will be inspired to write their stories. 

I understand that Austin was raised Gothard or Gothardish, however he hasn't actively shown how conservative he his. From the moment we were introduced to Derick he has been nothing but conservative. He has been actively trying to convert folks during missions prior to and after his marriage to Jill. He spent a year taking full-time classes to achieve a "Certificate of License in Gospel Ministry". He has also spouted his conservative political beliefs from the SM roof tops. So from the outside looking in, I personally see Derick as the most conservative son-in-law.

Five years ago I didn't think Derick was all that conservative. It's his actions since then, combined with his upbringing, that have informed my opinion.

Putting Izzy in public school doesn't change anything for me in regard to Derick.

Edited February 24, 2020 by GeeGolly

[GeeGolly]

13 minutes ago, lookeyloo said:

Interestingly my daughter in law’s sister (a children’s crisis social worker) and her attorney husband can’t get anywhere on time. We always tell them an hour earlier - their oldest daughter started school and she never wanted to be late so she hustled her parents along.  In 3rd grade and never a tardy.  So maybe Israel will hustle his parents, probably mother, along. 

My daughter's childhood best friend had chronically late parents. Once she figured out what late was and how it felt to be late, she asked for an alarm clock for her birthday. She was in first grade.

Izzy may need to do the same thing if Derick's schedule doesn't work with Izzy's.

[Tikichick]

I think a schedule will be one of  biggest challenges, and hopefully one of the biggest benefits of putting their son in school.  I hope they are smart enough to start working with the boys to develop a schedule gradually now, so that they're ready when the school bell rings. 

Hopefully Sam adjusts easily to a schedule and the loss of his always present playmate.  Not sure Jill is up to the challenge of happily engaging with a bored and restless toddler one on one, five days a week.  I wonder if there will be lots of forthcoming #momhangingwithoneson about to be blowing up the gram this fall?

If Jill can wrap her arms around it, a daily routine and schedule might have a positive impact on her emotionally and open her eyes to new possibilities.      

    

[Temperance]

30 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I understand that Austin was raised Gothard or Gothardish, however he hasn't actively shown how conservative he his. From the moment we were introduced to Derick he has been nothing but conservative. He has been actively trying to convert folks during missions prior to and after his marriage to Jill. He spent a year taking full-time classes to achieve a "Certificate of License in Gospel Ministry". He has also spouted his conservative political beliefs from the SM roof tops. So from the outside looking in, I personally see Derick as the most conservative son-in-law.

Five years ago I didn't think Derick was all that conservative. It's his actions since then, combined with his upbringing, that have informed my opinion.

Putting Izzy in public school doesn't change anything for me in regard to Derick.

Austin went to Israel for his honeymoon. They came home wearing One For Israel shirts. One For Israel is an organization that seeks to convert Jewish people. They had been volunteering with the organization on the honeymoon. Derick at least tried the local food when he was traveling. Austin said he and Joy tried to eat American foods as much as possible and that there should be a law requiring all countries to have American chain restaurants. (This was in segment where the couples discussed honeymoons while John David and Abbie were on their honeymoon.)  

I do think putting Israel in school could be a publicity stunt or they could change their minds about him going to school. But poor Gideon will probably be homeschooled by Joy. 

Austin is certainly more likable and better-looking, but he's easily the most conservative. He has shown through his words and actions that he is just like his in-laws and parents. 

[JoanArc]

Quote

I still see Derick as an angry hateful dude who is immature and vengeful. 

Quote

Putting Izzy in public school doesn't change anything for me in regard to Derick.

Ditto. He's still a crappy person. I wonder if Jill will every realize her parents were crap - and he's the one they picked for her. He better pay that synapse never connects.

[Zella]

My thoughts about Derick are sort of summed up in the fact that he has somehow tried to claim both that he had no contract with TLC and that he was fired because his missionary work was a violation of his contract with TLC. Like, those 2 things cannot literally both be true, and I will always assume he is lying without some independent verification of whatever he says because of stuff like that.

Edited February 24, 2020 by Zella

[SMama]

28 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

Ditto. He's still a crappy person. I wonder if Jill will every realize her parents were crap - and he's the one they picked for her. He better pay that synapse never connects.

Her parents were, are, and will forever be crap. Now Jill gets to be on the outside looking in.

[Sew Sumi]

5 minutes ago, SMama said:

Her parents were, are, and will forever be crap. Now Jill gets to be on the outside looking in.

Given Jill's self-help reading, I think she's well aware that her parents are toxic. I just wonder how she's processing that. She's basically breaking free from a cult.