Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[GeeGolly]

1 minute ago, cereality said:

Well Joshie's team pretty much got smoked on pre sentencing objections; nearly every single one overruled.

I'm surprised Jill and Derick aren't there; Derick may be working now but you'd think Jill would want to come.

They've already moved. Plus I'm sure each and every Duggar, including Derick are having very mixed emotions about this day.

[Minivanessa]

Hmm. This is interesting. Again, from the Sun, concerning a defense objection to the pre-sentence report. The PSR is not a document made available to the public so these objections give us a peek into what it might say:

Quote

Objection 16 was in regards to restricting contact with minors. A probation officer recommended it and the judge decided to rule on it later.

[I added the bolding.] Obviously FF won't be hanging out with minors in the near future. 

Edited May 25, 2022 by Jeeves

[Tikichick]

1 minute ago, Zella said:

She only attended the last day of the trial, with Derick, though he attended every day. I don't think she'd ever attend without Derick there. 

I don't blame her a bit if she wouldn't chose to come, especially alone.   I can't imagine how vulnerable she might feel seeing JB in this situation, especially as she's currently pregnant. 

[Boston]

Damn.. I have to go.  Keep up the good reporting, people. 

[galaxygirl76]

Jill is also very pregnant, I wouldn't want to sit in a court room for quite a while when I have to pee every five minutes.

[Zella]

Just now, galaxygirl76 said:

Jill is also very pregnant, I wouldn't want to sit in a court room for quite a while when I have to pee every five minutes.

3 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

They've already moved. Plus I'm sure each and every Duggar, including Derick are having very mixed emotions about this day.

Yeah I am honestly more surprised by Joy attending minus Austin than Jill and Derick not making an appearance. 

[hathorlive]

37 minutes ago, Zella said:

Apparently the judge overruled the defense's objection to the enhancements regarding prior acts and the content of the material he had downloaded. The defense also tried to claim the victims of the CSAM are not specifically his victims and the judge overruled that one too. He did sustain the defense's objection concerning Josh knowingly distributing. 

I told y'all that Josh knowingly distributing was going to go down.  Very few people really understand P2P programs, other than I click buttons until it's working and then I get stuff.  I'm totally not surprised by this.

[GeeGolly]

1 minute ago, Zella said:

Yeah I am honestly more surprised by Joy attending minus Austin than Jill and Derick not making an appearance. 

Agree. And I think moving is the best thing for Jill. It'll feel much more normal not to see family while living farther away. Less reasons to focus on the divide.

[Tikichick]

Joy does have a bit of grit and feistiness that all the keep sweet mandates in the world could never eliminate entirely.

[hathorlive]

40 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

What the actual fuck?!

You just can't underscore this enough with calling it fuckstration.  Where your frustration is fucking tired.  Yes, they are his victims because by downloading and viewing, he revictimized her.  These lawyers NEED to seriously stop. Talking.

[Madtown]

The sun is reporting that court should be back in session now.

[Zella]

1 minute ago, Madtown said:

The sun is reporting that court should be back in session now.

Yeah it's apparently been back in session since 12:10. I think their updates are that far behind and I am pretty sure that they again have a 2-person crew and notes are being passed on breaks for someone outside the courtroom to type up. 

[sagittarius sue]

3 minutes ago, Zella said:

Yeah it's apparently been back in session since 12:10. I think their updates are that far behind and I am pretty sure that they again have a 2-person crew and notes are being passed on breaks for someone outside the courtroom to type up. 

Yes, thank goodness for the local station to be more current.

Edited May 25, 2022 by sagittarius sue

[Tikichick]

The Judge can take his sweet time as far as I'm concerned.   I'm happy for him to neatly and tidily attend to each and every detail with painstaking focus. 

All the better to frustrate and obfuscate each and every avenue of appeal the Defense is desperately looking to poke, prod, open up and exploit.

Take your time, Your Honor.   Make sure you are on solid statutory ground and adhere to the letter of each and every court rule with every word out of your mouth. 

[hathorlive]

44 minutes ago, 3girlsforus said:

I would assume this is a common argument in this kind of case.  

The problem with that statement, in THIS case, is that prosecution can turn around and say "do any of your in life, real sister victims' want to make a statement?"  They would never do it, but it's not like Josh has all KINDS of VICTIMS.

[SmallTownMom]

Hopefuly 19 years and counting.  I'd watch that show.

Of course he was smiling and in good spirits.  He's a narcissist and still thinks things are going to go his way.  

Hey Josh, I have a "hand signal" for you!

[libgirl2]

1 minute ago, Tikichick said:

The Judge can take his sweet time as far as I'm concerned.   I'm happy for him to neatly and tidily attend to each and every detail with painstaking focus. 

All the better to frustrate and obfuscate each and every avenue of appeal the Defense is desperately looking to poke, prod, open up and exploit.

Take your time, Your Honor.   Make sure you are on solid statutory ground and adhere to the letter of each and every court rule with every word out of your mouth. 

It also costs more in defense legal fees ;)

[Tikichick]

Just now, SmallTownMom said:

Hopefuly 19 years and counting.  I'd watch that show.

Of course he was smiling and in good spirits.  He's a narcissist and still thinks things are going to go his way.  

Hey Josh, I have a "hand signal" for you!

Entirely on brand for a predator.

[hathorlive]

45 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

He's not. He's just getting it on record that he read their bullshit statements.

And in my experience, showing that he's polite and considerate towards the sleazeball in front of him. It's hard to appeal and say the judge was biased when he said nice things about your  Letters of Support bullshit culty propaganda.

[sagittarius sue]

2 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

It also costs more in defense legal fees ;)

I saw mention of 1 million $ defense on Reddit.

[cereality]

6 minutes ago, sagittarius sue said:

Yes, thank goodness for the local station to be more current.

What's the local station that you all are following and where?

[Tikichick]

3 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

The problem with that statement, in THIS case, is that prosecution can turn around and say "do any of your in life, real sister victims' want to make a statement?"  They would never do it, but it's not like Josh has all KINDS of VICTIMS.

That feels like such an opportunity for a satisfying takedown -- until I remember what it would be asking of the actual victims.   Even if any of them had the grace and courage to step up and do it, I'm too much of a coward and don't have the stomach to watch it happen.    

[hathorlive]

44 minutes ago, Zella said:

Apparently the defense also objected to an enhancement for the amount of material, and that's now been revised down to still an enhancement but a lower level one than what the prosecution asked for. 

I mentioned yesterday that Josh had a miniscule amount of images compared to nearly every case I've ever processed/testified about.  I'm not shocked that the prosecution lost this one. I told you all that enhancements are tricky.

[Tikichick]

2 minutes ago, sagittarius sue said:

I saw mention of 1 million $ defense on Reddit.

I can't fathom that's anywhere near correct.

[Minivanessa]

1 minute ago, cereality said:

What's the local station that you all are following and where?

I'm following Anna Darling on Twitter: https://twitter.com/AnnaDarlingTV

Her TV station's web report of the morning's hearing is here: https://www.nwahomepage.com/josh-duggar-trial/court-recesses-in-duggar-sentencing/

[sagittarius sue]

3 minutes ago, cereality said:

What's the local station that you all are following and where?

#NWANews or its reporter Anne Darling on twitter.

[MargeGunderson]

I’m guessing 14 years. I would be pleased with that. And no statement from Josh. He has to maintain his innocence, and presumably someone on his defense team has warned him to keep his mouth shut.

[hathorlive]

35 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

I recapped above the ones discussed in Anna Darling's detailed Twitter thread, which is here: https://twitter.com/AnnaDarlingTV/status/1529502969410068481.

ETA: Good luck with the Zoom meeting. Sorry about the Cheeto puff dust!!

I got the super fast, super nice forensic laptops I've been begging for the last two years. I got to purchase off government contract, which is a HUGE deal, so yes, I'm happy.  And now I'm sucking Cheeto dust off my fingers and enjoying a diet coke and schadenfreude about Josh.  The points the prosecution has lost to the defense are not that big.  The pattern of behavior and S/M content is. It allows the Judge to say that Josh is a danger as proven by his past behavior and content downloaded.  I still think anything more than 10 years is a gift.  I've never seen the points add up to years. I think Judges just get a number in their head and go with it.

[P-Fat]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I can imagine Anna shaping her hands as a heart and pumping them in front of her chest. Blowing kisses and giving him a thumbs up.

Cuz, you know - a Duggar goes to court. 🤣

The hand gesture equivalent of Me'Chelle's 5th grade level signature!

Hey there I am out of lurking to tell you all how much I enjoy your posts in this thread. A lot of you are smart and break things down in a way that makes them easier to understand, especially the legal aspects of this case

I am trying not to OD on the schadenfreude, but you see I married a guy who grew up in a cult that reminds me so much of Gothardism. Now mind you, he wasn't in it when we got together but got back into it after we got married. There was literally nothing about me or my life that said I was going to be a good church women or comply with any of their effed up rules. I was torn between wanting to work it out with the man I fell in love with while being framed as some kind of devil loving jezebel, which is kind of true but I didn't deserve to be treated poorly.

All this to say is that to see someone like Josh actually get punished for wrong doings is major for me. The hypocrisy, the back biting, the gossiping I endured while in that ill-fated marriage still makes my blood boil, and I think this case has become a lightening rod for the anger and rancor I built up during my marriage. It's like Josh is a stand in for all of those nasty bigoted men who talked down on me. My main crime was not wanting to go to church, enjoying TV and listening to secular music, meanwhile their children were addicted to porn, committing adultery, physical assaults and fraud and just being rude in general.

My hearts hurts for victims of CSAM, I hate Josh, his parents and his disgusting complicit wife. Even if he goes away for a long time I bet he'll never learn a damn thing.

Edited May 25, 2022 by P-Fat
edited to make bad grammar slightly less bad.

[Scout Finch]

8 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

I'm following Anna Darling on Twitter: https://twitter.com/AnnaDarlingTV

Her TV station's web report of the morning's hearing is here: https://www.nwahomepage.com/josh-duggar-trial/court-recesses-in-duggar-sentencing/

I appreciate you recapping some of her Twitter feed because I end up clicking on a bunch of the trending topics and completely forget why I even went there in the first place. Anyone know if there's a way to hide the trending sidebar?

Edited May 25, 2022 by Scout Finch

[Minivanessa]

3 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

I got the super fast, super nice forensic laptops I've been begging for the last two years. I got to purchase off government contract, which is a HUGE deal, so yes, I'm happy.  And now I'm sucking Cheeto dust off my fingers and enjoying a diet coke and schadenfreude about Josh.  The points the prosecution has lost to the defense are not that big.  The pattern of behavior and S/M content is. It allows the Judge to say that Josh is a danger as proven by his past behavior and content downloaded.  I still think anything more than 10 years is a gift.  I've never seen the points add up to years. I think Judges just get a number in their head and go with it.

CONGRATULATIONS on the laptops!!

And thanks for the comment that I bolded. That was my take on it, but this isn't an area of law I'm familiar with and you're in the trenches with it. I appreciate your posts! Big. Time. Just saying.

[hathorlive]

30 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

They've already moved. Plus I'm sure each and every Duggar, including Derick are having very mixed emotions about this day.

Jill needs to take care of herself. She shouldn't feel obligated to go or not go.  She's very pregnant and it's probably good for her to avoid the entire shitshow.  We are all stressed out and nervous.  Imagine how she would feel.

[quarks]

Just now, Scout Finch said:

I appreciate you recapping some of her Twitter feed because I end up clicking on a bunch trending topics and forget why I even went there in the first place. Anyone know if there's a way to hide the trending sidebar?

If only.

Some twitter apps do hide the trending sidebar, but if you go directly to Twitter, you're stuck with at least the top four trending topics no matter what you do.

[Tikichick]

4 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

I got the super fast, super nice forensic laptops I've been begging for the last two years. I got to purchase off government contract, which is a HUGE deal, so yes, I'm happy.  And now I'm sucking Cheeto dust off my fingers and enjoying a diet coke and schadenfreude about Josh.  The points the prosecution has lost to the defense are not that big.  The pattern of behavior and S/M content is. It allows the Judge to say that Josh is a danger as proven by his past behavior and content downloaded.  I still think anything more than 10 years is a gift.  I've never seen the points add up to years. I think Judges just get a number in their head and go with it.

Nice to hear that someone wearing a white hat in these types of cases is working with a lot of firepower and will bring it to bear against some of the worst humanity offers.   

[sagittarius sue]

7 minutes ago, P-Fat said:

The hand gesture equivalent of Me'Chelle's 5th grade level signature!

Hey there I am out of lurking to tell you all how much I enjoy your posts in this thread. A lot of you are smart and break things down in a way that makes them easier to understand, especially the legal aspects of this case

I am trying not to OD on the schadenfreude, but you see I married a guy who grew up in a cult that reminds me so much of Gothardism. Now mind you, he wasn't in it when we got together but got back into it after we got married. There was literally nothing about me or my life that said I was going to be a good church women or comply with any of their effed up rules. I was torn between wanting to work it out with the man I fell in love with while being framed as some kind of devil loving jezebel, which is kind of true but I didn't deserve to be treated poorly.

All this to say is that to see someone like Josh actually get punished for wrong doings is major for me. The hypocrisy, the back biting, the gossiping I endured while in that ill-fated marriage still makes my blood boil, and I think this case has become a lightening rod for the anger and rancor I built up during my ill-fated marriage. It's like Josh is a stand in for all of those nasty bigoted men who talked down on me. My main crime was not wanting to go to church, enjoying TV and listening to secular music, meanwhile their children were addicted to porn, committing adultery, physical assaults and fraud and just being rude in general.

My hearts hurts for victims of CSAM, I hate Josh, his parents and his disgusting complicit wife. Even if he goes away for a long time I bet he'll never learn a damn thing.

Thank you for comng out of lurkdom to post.  Your story shows how important it is to prosecute and convict these POS.  I hope your schadenfreude is never-ending.

[hathorlive]

8 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

CONGRATULATIONS on the laptops!!

And thanks for the comment that I bolded. That was my take on it, but this isn't an area of law I'm familiar with and you're in the trenches with it. I appreciate your posts! Big. Time. Just saying.

Every year they tell me to work up the specs for the super laptops and every year they hand me a piece of HP and tell me good luck.  And every year the piece of HP goes on the shelf with the other pieces of HP.  But this year I got them.  Sorry everyone. But it does allow me to help get perverts prosecuted faster, so kind on topic?

I think the points the defense won will get them "I told you so points" with JB.  Like, you may of spent 500K on this show, but we just got 2 years off your kid's sentence.  The prosecution won those points.  Now let's see the Judge actually apply all the time the enhancements bring, which isn't always reflected in the final sentence.

Edited May 25, 2022 by hathorlive

[merylinkid]

Damn this needs to get over.   I gotta go somewhere this afternoon.   I figured it would be done by late morning.

[hathorlive]

Quote

Objection 18 involved fees per count and was dismissed.

Objection 20 was withdrawn, with no restitution discussed in this case.

Wait, Ms. Balls told everyone Josh was going to have to pay 250K in restitution.  What??? It doesn't always happen when I told you it wasn't going to happen?  

[mythoughtis]

I just cannot believe that the money that Josh gave to the widow monthly was his.  Where would he have gotten it from?  What income has he had  since he left Washington?  He has a multitude of children and a stay at home wife.  I doubt he was making enough at the car lot to support two families. 
Did he have a website that collected donations for her? Possibly, but that wouldn’t have  been his own money. 

[Salacious Kitty]

1 minute ago, mythoughtis said:

I just cannot believe that the money that Josh gave to the widow monthly was his.  Where would he have gotten it from?  What income has he had  since he left Washington?  He has a multitude of children and a stay at home wife.  I doubt he was making enough at the car lot to support two families. 
Did he have a website that collected donations for her? Possibly, but that wouldn’t have  been his own money. 

He started a GFM for the widow. The money didn't come out of his pocket.

[Tikichick]

13 minutes ago, MargeGunderson said:

I’m guessing 14 years. I would be pleased with that. And no statement from Josh. He has to maintain his innocence, and presumably someone on his defense team has warned him to keep his mouth shut.

The mindset of predators doesn't generally lend itself to submitting to the reality that others know more/know better and following recommendations.   Is he currently operating from the position of scared out of his wits, or angry that he listened pretrial and in the trial phase when the idiots around him didn't do their jobs?

Personally I'm very happy to hear he has what seems to be a paper with prepared statement in hand while he's demonstrating a relaxed and jovial attitude in the courtroom.   At the end of the day no matter how brilliantly his team may have prepared remarks for him in an attempt to mitigate the length of any sentence and/or to shine up his image for appeal, Josh alone is in control of what comes out of his mouth when it's his turn to speak.

Please let him speak from the depths of his soul in front of God and everybody.   Let him shape his destiny with his own filthy hands.

[SusanM]

2 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

He started a GFM for the widow. The money didn't come out of his pocket.

IS that what he did?  Jeeze. I'm going to start a GFM to raise money for Ukrainian relief.  I bet I get nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize.

[mythoughtis]

3 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

He started a GFM for the widow. The money didn't come out of his pocket.

Probably so…. But that’s not what the letters imply/ especially the one from the widow 

[Salacious Kitty]

I can't believe that they dragged the widow into this. 

[libgirl2]

Just now, Salacious Kitty said:

I can't believe that they dragged the widow into this. 

I can. 

[merylinkid]

I'm surprised JB didn't coerce the sisters into writing letters in support of Josh and claiming what he did to them was totally okay and should not be held against him.

Jb will do ANYTHING and use ANYONE to save Josh.   

[dariafan]

1 hour ago, Rabbittron said:

Try the white cheddar cheetos. 

White cheddar Cheetos ??  These exist ??  Cause all my stores kept trying to push flaming hot or some other nonsense 

[ALittleShelfish]

1 minute ago, dariafan said:

White cheddar Cheetos ??  These exist ??  Cause all my stores kept trying to push flaming hot or some other nonsense 

SO GOOD.  Yes find them.  They are worth the hunt!

[CherryMalotte]

I'm on staycation this week and had a few little projects in mind - just cleaned out a bunch of junk (two big white garbage bags) for garbage morning tomorrow.  However I have the feeling if I tear into anything else time consuming then the sentence will come in and I'll miss it. 

White cheddar cheetos are the bomb.  

[Salacious Kitty]

4 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

I'm surprised JB didn't coerce the sisters into writing letters in support of Josh and claiming what he did to them was totally okay and should not be held against him.

Jb will do ANYTHING and use ANYONE to save Josh.   

You've got a point there.