Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[libgirl2]

2 minutes ago, lafcolleen said:

Those poor M kids. How do you explain something like this to M-oldest? 

 

and part of the trial testimony is his sexual abuse of girls her age.  

 

That poor kid is going to be so messed in the head with this - 

They will spin it that it was satan. 

[Sile]

6 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

Well surely she didn't think she and Josh were going to waltz out of that courtroom hand and hand!!!

I really think she might have thought that would be the case, so I doubt that she's begun to process the reality yet.

Edited December 9, 2021 by Sile

[hathorlive]

15 minutes ago, Lindsay Loo Hoo said:

Josh Duggar was "teary-eyed but not crying" when the verdict was given, according to the Sun reporter, who noted he was "solemn."

Duggar was cuffed immediately.

I know it won't happen, but please let there be a perp walk. I just want to see him in cuffs.

[lascuba]

17 minutes ago, Lindsay Loo Hoo said:

Josh Duggar told his wife, Anna Duggar, he loved her on the way out, according to the Sun reporter present for the proceedings on Thursday.

Oh, I sure he loves how she puts up with shit over and over again.

16 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

So here's the sticking point.  Normally this gets you a 10 year sentence. I've never had a case get consecutive sentences, they always run concurrent.  However, the judge seems to dislike Josh and his attorneys.  He seems to understand the harm he's done.  Will he take time to write out a justification for going outside the standard sentence?  We know his average sentence for this is around 8 years, give or take.  Will the abuse of his sisters and danger he presents yield a consecutive sentence?  8 years followed by 8 years? Or will he throw every enhancer at him? Could we see a 20 year sentence for possession/receipt?  I doubt it, but this Judge is pretty fly.

One of the fundie tumblrs (DuggarData) is written by a lawyer who think Josh will get 14 years based on her reading of the sentencing guidelines.  At this point, I'm so relieved over the conviction that I'm not allowing myself any expectations over the sentencing.

Edited December 9, 2021 by lascuba

[Madtown]

2 minutes ago, SJC said:

i feel so much love for you all today. 💞

Ditto! ❤️
I want to thank all of you experts on this site for all your insight during all of this. You have helped me understand the process of this trial so much better!

I also want to give kudos to all of us for being civil with each other throughout all of this. It really is a special community!

[Zella]

Just now, lascuba said:

 

One of the fundie tumblrs (DuggarData) is written by a lawyer who think Josh will get 14 years based on her reading of the sentencing guidelines.  At this point, I'm so relieved over the conviction that I'm not allowing myself any expectations over the verdict.

That's good to know! I got too nauseated reading the enhancements to try to do the math.

[merylinkid]

6 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

I want to thank all of you for the support through this.  I would mention it to friends and they all look at me like "who? Josh who?"  It's good to know that others are as concerned as I am.

I just had a fellow lawyer friend who is qualified to be a child attorney IM me that Josh was found guilty.   I was thinking "wait what, you were paying attention?   Wow, someone to talk to."   I sent her the link to this thread.   And expounded your expertise @hathorlive.  

[Lindsay Loo Hoo]

Jim Bob Duggar, Justin Duggar, and his wife, Claire (Spivey) Duggar just left together and didn’t answer questions, the Sun reporter noted.

Josh Duggar's lawyers plan to appeal his case.

"We respect the jury's verdict and we look forward to continuing this fight on appeal," one of his attorneys said outside the courthouse on Thursday.

[RedDelicious]

Forgive me but, HOLY SHIT!!!!!!!!!!

[Churchhoney]

Well, of course -- 

JUST NOW

Appeal planned

Josh Duggar's lawyers plan to appeal his case.

"We respect the jury's verdict and we look forward to continuing this fight on appeal," one of his attorneys said outside the courthouse on Thursday.

"We plan to appeal at the appropriate time."

 

Edited December 9, 2021 by Churchhoney

[hathorlive]

11 minutes ago, Lindsay Loo Hoo said:

Jim Bob Duggar hugged Josh Duggar's wife, Anna Duggar, after the verdict was read.

Anna was "completely stoic," according to the Sun reporter.

Was that an appropriate side hug?  

[Zella]

Just now, Lindsay Loo Hoo said:

Jim Bob Duggar, Justin Duggar, and his wife, Claire (Spivey) Duggar just left together and didn’t answer questions, the Sun reporter noted.

I wonder if the defense is slipping Anna out a side door. 

[libgirl2]

Just now, Lindsay Loo Hoo said:

Jim Bob Duggar, Justin Duggar, and his wife, Claire (Spivey) Duggar just left together and didn’t answer questions, the Sun reporter noted.

No thumbs up? 

[lascuba]

1 minute ago, Zella said:

That's good to know! I got too nauseated reading the enhancements to try to do the math.

Here's the post where she explains her reasoning.

[Jeanne222]

7 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

This judge has seen those a lot of times before, though. So....gotta be something more that would cause him to go beyond the sentences he's generally been handing out, I think. 

Could it be additional things the judge knows about but weren't allowed in court?

[Zella]

Just now, lascuba said:

Here's the post where she explains her reasoning.

That was very helpful--thank you! 

[Annb67]

16 minutes ago, Lindsay Loo Hoo said:

Josh Duggar told his wife, Anna Duggar, he loved her on the way out, according to the Sun reporter present for the proceedings on Thursday.

Anna should have yelled”Fuck you” and flipped him off

[Trillium]

2 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Well, of course -- 

JUST NOW

Appeal planned

Josh Duggar's lawyers plan to appeal his case.

"We respect the jury's verdict and we look forward to continuing this fight on appeal," one of his attorneys said outside the courthouse on Thursday.

"We plan to appeal at the appropriate time."

 

Aka: Once the check clears from Jim Bob. 

[Tuxcat]

2 minutes ago, Zella said:

I wonder if the defense is slipping Anna out a side door. 

the same one Jessa has been using the entire trial

[iwantcookies]

2 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

No thumbs up? 

 

3 minutes ago, Lindsay Loo Hoo said:

Jim Bob Duggar, Justin Duggar, and his wife, Claire (Spivey) Duggar just left together and didn’t answer questions, the Sun reporter noted.

Josh Duggar's lawyers plan to appeal his case.

"We respect the jury's verdict and we look forward to continuing this fight on appeal," one of his attorneys said outside the courthouse on Thursday.

No hilaria?

[CouchTater]

22 minutes ago, Lindsay Loo Hoo said:

Jim Bob Duggar hugged Josh Duggar's wife, Anna Duggar, after the verdict was read.

Anna was "completely stoic," according to the Sun reporter.

On the Leaving Eden podcast (co-host is ex-fundie), they made the point that stoicism and the denial of feelings are requirements for fundie girls (keeping sweet, anyone?), which they say explained why Anna was seemingly unmoved by the graphic details of the trial.  

Wow, I am happy and sad simultaneously.  Even sad for the little boy Josh, who was failed, failed, failed by his parents.  And to the other 18 Duggar kids + Tyler (and their progeny) for the horrors and injustices (direct and indirect) visited upon them because of their parents' failures.  And anyone else who Josh hurt.  

 

Edited December 9, 2021 by CouchTater

[DXD526]

Quote

I'm here at home by myself and I started clapping like a fool when I read the news!

I actually threw my hands up in victory.

GOOOAAAAAAAAL!!!!

I have the day off, so was able to find out the good news immediately, hanging out here. This whole affair has been schadenfreude overload! A thanks to everyone here for the fun snark during this process!

But I really need to see a perp walk 😁

[Jeanne222]

So if Josh gets say 10 years now much of that will he actually serve before he gets early release?

Seems no matter what they get a few years and they're out!

[Zella]

Just now, Tuxcat said:

the same one Jessa has been using the entire trial

I keep going back and forth between thinking Jessa is coming in through a more private entrance (I don't blame her at all) and thinking that the Sun is mistaking someone else for Jessa. After the whole Jed!/Jason thing, I feel like they have sketchy Duggar identification powers. LOL

[Tuxcat]

Anna was "completely stoic," according to the Sun reporter.

 

I wonder if she's honestly just relieved maybe. I know she believes he's innocent but in her heart she's just got to know.

Edited December 9, 2021 by Tuxcat

[Sile]

2 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Well, of course -- 

JUST NOW

Appeal planned

Josh Duggar's lawyers plan to appeal his case.

"We respect the jury's verdict and we look forward to continuing this fight on appeal," one of his attorneys said outside the courthouse on Thursday.

"We plan to appeal at the appropriate time."

 

Of course they spout the mandatory "we're appealing" line.  But will JB finally admit to the concept of sunk costs and close up the change purse?

[Zella]

Just now, Jeanne222 said:

So if Josh gets say 10 years now much of that will he actually serve before he gets early release?

Seems no matter what they get a few years and they're out!

You have to serve 85% of a federal sentence, I believe. He'll be there a while. 

[Churchhoney]

2 minutes ago, Trillium said:

Aka: Once the check clears from Jim Bob. 

And now that he needs a new wig, who knows what his priorities are? 

[Zella]

Now the Sun is saying Anna left with Jim Bob, so maybe no side door after all. 

[Lindsay Loo Hoo]

Anna Duggar, Josh Duggar's wife, also left with Jim Bob Duggar, according to the Sun reporter at the courthouse on Thursday.

[Minivanessa]

2 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

Could it be additional things the judge knows about but weren't allowed in court?

Here's the official downlow on sentencing in federal criminal cases:

Quote

If the verdict is guilty, the judge determines the defendant’s sentence. During sentencing, the court may consider U.S. Sentencing Commission guidelines, evidence produced at trial, and also relevant information provided by the pretrial services officer, the U.S. attorney, and the defense attorney.

As I understand it the pretrial services or probation office will usually prepare a presentence report for the court's consideration. That will usually include the defendant's personal history and isn't limited to things that were admitted in evidence at trial.

[Trillium]

2 minutes ago, Zella said:

I keep going back and forth between thinking Jessa is coming in through a more private entrance (I don't blame her at all) and thinking that the Sun is mistaking someone else for Jessa. After the whole Jed!/Jason thing, I feel like they have sketchy Duggar identification powers. LOL

Reddit thinks they mistook Laura for Jessa the whole time, and there’s pictures of her there and zero of Jessa. 

[3girlsforus]

6 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Well, of course -- 

JUST NOW

Appeal planned

Josh Duggar's lawyers plan to appeal his case.

"We respect the jury's verdict and we look forward to continuing this fight on appeal," one of his attorneys said outside the courthouse on Thursday.

"We plan to appeal at the appropriate time."

 

Well to be fair - EVERYONE says that. Sure they will appeal but that doesn't mean the lawyer actually thinks they have any kind of legitimate appeal. It is just what you say and what you do when you have a client who is paying. When the checks start bouncing... the appeals will stop.

[Sile]

1 minute ago, Snow Fairy said:

I really really hope he never ever did anything to his kids.

Even if it would make him go to jail for a longer time, I hope for the kids sake they didn't have to go through something like that

That was the first thing that came to my mind when I read the post where he questioned if they were talking about "transmitting or sending".  Other than that he didn't didn't under the word "transmit", I wondered if he was asking if they'd discovered that he was also sending it as well as receiving.

Similar to "has somebody been downloading child porn?"  

[absnow54]

I'm stunned by the restrain Amy is showing, by not blasting her feelings on Twitter yet. She must be too busy shit texting with Deanna. 

[Sile]

2 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

And now that he needs a new wig, who knows what his priorities are? 

Rug a Dug Dug...

[Zella]

Just now, Trillium said:

Reddit thinks they mistook Laura for Jessa the whole time, and there’s pictures of her there and zero of Jessa. 

That actually makes more sense! 

[Churchhoney]

3 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

So if Josh gets say 10 years now much of that will he actually serve before he gets early release?

Seems no matter what they get a few years and they're out!

Federal detention has some specific rules. With a year of good behavior, you get a certain number of days off your sentence -- it's around 50 days somewhere.....Ultimately, it means that you have to serve about 85 percent of whatever your sentence was.....

[StaceyNotStacie]

Just now, Zella said:

You have to serve 85% of a federal sentence, I believe. He'll be there a while. 

I’m hoping that he serves long enough for Anna to hit menopause. If he only served 10 years, she could still have a few geriatric pregnancies once he was released (if he’s allowed to return home). All of his children would literally be adults by the time he is released. 
 

At this point, I just wonder if Mack takes her siblings and runs when she turns 18 and leaves her mother behind to sit in a rocker and stare at the walls. 

[ElsieEm]

oh wow!

[SusanM]

I bet Mrs Reber is doing a happy dance right now as she fumigates Smuggar's empty room.

[beckie]

1 hour ago, MargeGunderson said:

I can’t believe that with her husband on trial, Anna didn’t buy enough new dresses to wear a different one every day. Missed opportunity! 

I was thinking, maybe right now the ugly brown shoes are all that fit and same with the dresses. Who knows why she does what she does.

[Hana Chan]

Poking my head out of the lurkdom hole to offer my viewpoint on how this went down.

Given that the jury just got the cast late yesterday afternoon and were back with a verdict by mid-morning implies that there was zero dissent within the jury about conviction. No one was even entertaining the defense theories, which means that most of the time spent in deliberation was probably just a quick review of the facts, a vote and then the administrative part on documenting their judgement. That is an absolutely devastating blow to the defense and while I have no doubt that they will appeal, the fact that the jury wasn't at all divided doesn't bode well for any chances of that being successful. They might try to float a constitutional argument regarding JD's arrest and conviction, but I don't think that anything that was brought up in the case was at all questionable. This was as open and shut as you're going to get, and the only thing the defense had in their arsenal were unqualified "experts" and wild hypotheses that went nowhere in creating reasonable doubt.

Having a few months before sentencing is not at all unusual, so I'm not concerned about that. And I do expect that Josh will get the book thrown at him. Possession of child pornography is bad enough, but we have Josh's past history of molesting young girls including his own sisters. The prosecution will have a very solid argument to make about JD being a danger to others, a lack of any real remorse and the high probability that he will offend again. 

And the kicker is that the one thing that JD's defense team might have going for them is to throw themselves on the mercy of the court and that JD cannot be held fully responsible for his actions because of his upbringing. In order to save him from decades in prison, I can see JD's lawyers all but directly blame JimBob and Michelle for how JD was raised and that his past "indiscretions" were not handled properly, which caused him to escalate his offenses. Either way, the Dugger empire is pretty much toast with this.

Edited December 9, 2021 by Hana Chan

[Tuxcat]

2 minutes ago, Trillium said:

Reddit thinks they mistook Laura for Jessa the whole time, and there’s pictures of her there and zero of Jessa. 

Except the ticktock lawyer said they shook hands and she introduced herself as jessa....but yeah who knows.  The defense really should have used the "which Duggar, we can't tell defense, to argue some other Duggar did it"

[Lindsay Loo Hoo]

Josh Duggar looked over at his family when the guilty verdict was read, the Sun reporter noted.

He had tears in his eyes when they cuffed him.

[CouchTater]

Bobye Holt can fuck off.  She and her husband should have called the cops the first 1, 2 , or 3 times Josh confessed to them.

Edited December 9, 2021 by CouchTater

[mimionthebeach]

5 minutes ago, Trillium said:

Reddit thinks they mistook Laura for Jessa the whole time, and there’s pictures of her there and zero of Jessa. 

Was totally going to suggest that's what was happening. 

[Churchhoney]

4 minutes ago, Trillium said:

Reddit thinks they mistook Laura for Jessa the whole time, and there’s pictures of her there and zero of Jessa. 

And I've also seen people saying they think that Jana may also have been taken for Jessa one day......And on that too, there have been numerous photos of Jana. None of Jessa. 

I think these people are right. "Jessa" was actually "Laura" and/or "Jana." 

[Lindsay Loo Hoo]

Justin Duggar was also present in the courtroom when the verdict was read and was emotional, according to the Sun reporter, who said Josh Duggar's brother cried when the verdict was read.

[Sile]

1 minute ago, Lindsay Loo Hoo said:

Josh Duggar looked over at his family when the guilty verdict was read, the Sun reporter noted.

He had tears in his eyes when they cuffed him.

Boo fucking hoo,