Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[GeeGolly]

Just now, quarks said:

I wasn't under that misconception, but even if I had been, I don't think it matters? I think both a retail car lot and a wholesale used car lot should know the start dates for their employees.

Not from what I know. It usually happens something like this - Steve says, Hey I bought a bunch of cars NY I need to move, you know any drivers? Susie says, Oh yea sure, Joe just retired he's always looking to drive. Steve says, Great I'll give him a call.

Months later the Feds come asking for records. Joe could have moved cars a dozen times during that period along with a bunch of other drivers, so Steve has to go back and find the first time Joe drove.

The employees are really more like subcontractors or per diem employees.

[farmgal4]

4 hours ago, Namaste said:

Do juries deliberate on weekends?  Any idea how long it will take to get the verdict?  TYIA

Is the jury in deliberations already?

[cereality]

27 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

Maybe he has nothing against her? Maybe he is playing nice to get some inside dirt? 

Court is a weird and stressful thing. It's not like Derick went in there being like oh I'll buddy up with Anna. It likely just happened maybe after one of the breaks where he saw her in the hallway looking lost/overwhelmed, they exchanged a smile, maybe she asked him some innocuous question about court and he was like - it won't kill me to be nice to her.

And yes it is very likely he doesn't personally blame her for anything. While he obviously has issues with Josh and JB/Michelle, we haven't seen him be mean to siblings/siblings in law; I mean Justin still hangs out at their house and went to his law school graduation, we've seen Jana stop by at one of the kid's birthdays etc; they went to Justin's wedding when they easily could have skipped it bc it wasn't local.

The stuff that happened to his wife pre-dates Anna by years. As for Anna staying with Josh despite this and having another kid with him, at worst Derick may think - her marriage, her business, I don't want to know. At best though he may think - she is just as uneducated and brainwashed as my wife was, she had 6 kids with him, where can she even go, of course she has to play the game and dance to JB and Josh's tune as sick as they are. Derick isn't fundie and when he married in I really think he thought that they were just a more Godly version of his family -- I don't think he understood until after marriage just how uneducated his wife is, how brainwashed she was, how she doesn't understand basic things bc she was never taught -- so now it's very possible he looks at girls like Anna (and maybe Jana etc.) and feels sorry for them being stuck. Not to say he can do anything about it, but I think he can still smile and say hi in court and sit next to them.

[Churchhoney]

9 minutes ago, Zella said:

If I learned anything from Goodfellas (besides you need to stir the sauce), it's that when cops show up with a search warrant, be polite and call the lawyer. Josh's tactic seems to have been "be smarmy and incriminating." 

To be fair, he seems to have a hard time turning the "smarmy" off. It must be a built-in.  

 

[MsJamieDornan]

4 minutes ago, cereality said:

It's not like Derick went in there being like oh I'll buddy up with Anna.

He sat with her in court. It was posted previously.

[CandyCaneTree]

41 minutes ago, Boston said:

Just WOW.. smh

WHERE ARE YOUR KIDS, ANNA??

Jana their mom is watching them. 

[GeeGolly]

I just wanted to add something about Josh's car lot records. He may have been paying some of the employees off the books to avoid taxes. That may be the reason his lawyer was the "keeper of the records". The lawyer, who is as shady as the Duggars, may have cooked the books in a way that wouldn't be noticeable.

[farmgal4]

1 hour ago, libgirl2 said:

Hey, she wore that dress already! 

 

1 hour ago, iwantcookies said:

From today. Clinging on to Joshua for dear life. 

What’s going on with the back of her right shoe?  Is that toilet paper?  

Smuggar looks like he’s aged 10 years in that picture.

[lilwhitelion]

And they finally don't look smug.  They look, dare I say, defeated?

[quarks]

7 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Not from what I know. It usually happens something like this - Steve says, Hey I bought a bunch of cars NY I need to move, you know any drivers? Susie says, Oh yea sure, Joe just retired he's always looking to drive. Steve says, Great I'll give him a call.

Months later the Feds come asking for records. Joe could have moved cars a dozen times during that period along with a bunch of other drivers, so Steve has to go back and find the first time Joe drove.

The employees are really more like subcontractors or per diem employees.

Right, but in your example above, Steve is able to find the first time Joe drove. 

That's been the problem here - Josh was arrested in May, and as late as November neither the defense nor the prosecution could pin down exactly when Randall Barry started driving or doing whatever he was going at the car lot - even though one of the defense attorneys is also the agent of record for the car lot, and forwarded/prepared the car lot records in response to the government subpoena for these records. 

Partly because Barry, for whatever reason, initially lied to both federal investigators and the defense lawyers, but also because there appear to be discrepancies in the car lot records versus the pay stubs versus other evidence.

2 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I just wanted to add something about Josh's car lot records. He may have been paying some of the employees off the books to avoid taxes. That may be the reason his lawyer was the "keeper of the records". The lawyer, who is as shady as the Duggars, may have cooked the books in a way that wouldn't be noticeable.

I suspect you are 100% correct - it fits everything said so far about the car lot records.

And it's a mess for the defense attorneys. If they agree that the May 31, 2019 start date - the one that a prosecution witness just confirmed is on the books - is the correct start date, then Randall Barry did not have access to the car lot computer, since everyone agrees that he did not work at the car lot prior to May 2019. That increases Josh's legal jeopardy.

If they disagree, then they are essentially admitting that the car lot records, kept by Josh and his defense attorney, Travis Story, are incorrect, which implies that Josh at best was trying to avoid taxes by paying employees off the books, at worst is just completely dishonest. I don't think this is going to improve anyone's impression of Josh.

[iwantcookies]

34 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

Impart your freaking wisdom with a phone call, Amy. Why tag them? Idiot.

My opinion on Amy gets lower every day. 

[Nysha]

37 minutes ago, Zella said:

If I learned anything from Goodfellas (besides you need to stir the sauce), it's that when cops show up with a search warrant, be polite and call the lawyer. Josh's tactic seems to have been "be smarmy and incriminating." 

I've learned so much about what not to do when the cops show up from this case that if I ever do get in trouble...

[merylinkid]

42 minutes ago, Zella said:

If I learned anything from Goodfellas (besides you need to stir the sauce), it's that when cops show up with a search warrant, be polite and call the lawyer. Josh's tactic seems to have been "be smarmy and incriminating." 

Guarantee Josh THOUGHT he could be so charming that the Feds would go "Wow he's such a nice guy let's leave him alone."  

[Nysha]

47 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I really don't know what to make of this - 

From the Sun, Derick said:

"We’re sad for Anna, put yourself in her situation and imagine how you would feel if that happened with your family member.

"I imagine it would be really hard."

Derick can drum up empathy for Anna, but calls Jazz's parents child abusers?

Derick personally knows Anna and her circumstances. It's a lot easier for a mostly non-empathic person to empathize with someone they like, especially when compared to someone unknown who is actively engaging in behavior they think is morally wrong and sinful. 

I'm not excusing Derick's abusive behavior against Jazz and her parents in any way, shape, or form, though. 

[Zella]

3 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

Guarantee Josh THOUGHT he could be so charming that the Feds would go "Wow he's such a nice guy let's leave him alone."  

Yeah I think he really thought he was being slick and smooth.

At one point in one of the motions, the prosecution mentions with some real lowkey snark that he kept saying his wife was pregnant and he may have to leave, but he didn't go anywhere. 🤣🤣🤣🤣 I bet they were all like "get a load of this guilty idiot" as soon as he opened his mouth.

Edited December 2, 2021 by Zella

[cereality]

Just read the day's live updates from the Sun. OMG Joshie is a moron and him and JB are both morons for not agreeing with their attorneys who I'm sure have told them millions of times the evidence is stacked up against him, he needs to take a plea.

Seriously in a case where the defense is supposedly - this is just a dumb hick with a homeschool education he doesn't know anything about technology, all this is a big mistake we have to find out who put CP on his devices - this dude AGREED to talk with Homeland Security when they showed up and told them: (i) he's familiar with peer to peer tech; (ii) knows torrent tech but really then brings up Tor which is the dark web so now he's told them he's on the dark web; (iii) tells them he needs the dark web to sell cars (yeah bc anonymous car sales are a thing); (iv) asks if his IP address is marked; (v) asked if marking the IP address can narrow down which device they were looking at; (vi) asking if IP was suggesting a download or upload of CP AND IS TOLD BY THEM MORE THAN ONCE to be quiet and that they are there to work!? And then after that busts out the - I'm not denying guilt but I won't incriminate myself. Uh you already did doofus. When they asked if you'd interview with them AND you knew you were doing illegal things why was the answer anything but -- I'll reach out to my lawyer and he'll set up the interview, thanks!?! And then LEAVE because they had said he was free to leave the lot at any time -- he didn't need to stay there chit chatting with them in their truck nor while they pulled stuff off devices and oh yeah they were audio recording all the chit chat bc they had the warrant to do that!??! 

That's basically a summary of the day for anyone else who didn't have time to follow in real time.

Edited December 2, 2021 by cereality

[BitterApple]

22 minutes ago, iwantcookies said:

My opinion on Amy gets lower every day. 

You and me both. She's attention seeking and nothing will convince me otherwise.

 

[TeeMo]

1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

To be fair, he seems to have a hard time turning the "smarmy" off. It must be a built-in.  

 

He comes by it genetically. 

[3 is enough]

You can't make this stuff up.  Not only is he a sick, twisted pervert, he is as dumb as a box of rocks.  

I remember many years ago he blocked me on Twitter.  He was spouting off about how raising the minimum wage was a bad thing, and I pointed out that he was lucky that he had Daddy and TLC, because without them he could never afford to raise a family on minimum wage, which was all his homeschool GED would get him. He was always a smug dick.  I really hope he gets what he deserves.

[CandyCaneTree]

Of course a guy with such a smug face would never do anything wrong. 

[SunnyBeBe]

2 hours ago, farmgal4 said:

You mean he took an Alford plea??

I’m not aware he did that.  I was saying that he doesn’t want to make a plea of any sort, including Alford.  I would think he would want a negotiated plea to get some benefit, but I guess not.   

[lascuba]

1 hour ago, Nysha said:

Derick personally knows Anna and her circumstances. It's a lot easier for a mostly non-empathic person to empathize with someone they like, especially when compared to someone unknown who is actively engaging in behavior they think is morally wrong and sinful. 

I'm not excusing Derick's abusive behavior against Jazz and her parents in any way, shape, or form, though. 

There's that, and also, Derick is one of those people who is really brave and loud online but defaults to timid politeness in person. It wouldn't surprise me if he were to reach out to Josh to wish him luck, even if he hated him and thinks him guilty. 

[Gemma Violet]

WOACB is saying her source says Austin is furious because he has previously only known the watered-down version of what happened to Joy and has now learned that there was a lot more to the story than he knew.

[jacourt]

So 2 in laws show up but no siblings. Hmmmmm.

[hathorlive]

1 hour ago, Nysha said:

I've learned so much about what not to do when the cops show up from this case that if I ever do get in trouble...

Always tell them you won't speak without an attorney present.  Be pleasant and get out of their way if they have a search warrant.  Best advice ever.  Don't be lured into small talk. And don't think you can control the conversation.  I get to sit outside until the door is kicked in and the premise is secure.  While I'm standing around waiting for people to bring me electronics, I see a lot of people attempt to talk their way out of a situation. It never goes well.

[LexieLily]

5 minutes ago, Gemma Violet said:

WOACB is saying her source says Austin is furious because he has previously only known the watered-down version of what happened to Joy and has now learned that there was a lot more to the story than he knew.

If true, something like this might be the one miniscule silver lining in this whole horrific saga, that the Duggar in-laws and even the Duggars themselves now know the truth. Those of them that want to know, at least. 

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by LexieLily

[BitterApple]

9 minutes ago, Gemma Violet said:

WOACB is saying her source says Austin is furious because he has previously only known the watered-down version of what happened to Joy and has now learned that there was a lot more to the story than he knew.

Weren't all the details in the police report?

[Sile]

4 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Holy shit ...

 From the Sun

In a third audio clip of the interview with Josh Duggar and Homeland Security investigators, the investigators explained they were able to directly connect to an IP address that had child porn.

Josh then asked whether it was for transmitting or receiving it.

The implications from that statement makes my blood run cold

 

3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Can we make a list of #SayingsfromJosh?

• You here for the porn?
• My wife is pregnant.
• I use it for work.

 

3 hours ago, Zella said:

• I'm not denying guilt.

We're from Arkansas, LOL~! j/k j/k

 

I would love to think that Derick is initiating a long con of some sort, but I really can't give him that much credit for planning ahead.

Edited December 2, 2021 by Sile

[Zella]

Just now, BitterApple said:

Weren't all the details in the police report?

Yeah I'm not trying to be a bitch, but Austin must know less about Google than just about any other 27-year-old on the planet. The info in the police report has been out there for years, and almost everything covered in court today has been well covered before today in previous hearings. If he's just finding this shit out now, it seems like at least partially a case of willful ignorance. 

[sue450]

5 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Weren't all the details in the police report?

not the more recent child porn

 and josh started at 12 not 15  

[hathorlive]

14 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

If true, something like this might be the one miniscule silver lining in this whole horrific saga, that the Duggar in-laws and even the Duggars themselves now know the truth. Those of them that want to know, at least. 

 

Now all we need is for Austin to refuse to allow his kids to be in the same place as Josh.  You never know what JB told him.  He probably said that In Touch was a gossip mag, leaving out the entire police report thing.  Maybe Austin didn't think about it too much until the feds kicked in his bro in law's door.  Either way, anything he sees or hears in court might just prompt him to protect his kids.

[GeeGolly]

5 minutes ago, Zella said:

Yeah I'm not trying to be a bitch, but Austin must know less about Google than just about any other 27-year-old on the planet. The info in the police report has been out there for years, and almost everything covered in court today has been well covered before today in previous hearings. If he's just finding this shit out now, it seems like at least partially a case of willful ignorance. 

He knows. Miss C Balls is likely making it all up. He was caught in a screen shot reading about Josh's arrest on his phone a while back. I'm sure he's read everything we have.

[Zella]

Just now, GeeGolly said:

Miss C Balls is likely making it all up. 

Yeah this is the most likely explanation. I imagine she's pretty pissed that she has no real scoops on the trial. 

[sue450]

14 minutes ago, Zella said:

Yeah I'm not trying to be a bitch, but Austin must know less about Google than just about any other 27-year-old on the planet. The info in the police report has been out there for years, and almost everything covered in court today has been well covered before today in previous hearings. If he's just finding this shit out now, it seems like at least partially a case of willful ignorance. 

they are taught not to believe in the outside world so even if he heard something he would not believe it..after all his parents had  mr pearl  as one of the speakers at their camp a couple of years ago..yes THAT MR PEARL  who wrote the book "how to train up a child"   that has parents blanket training starting at 6 months because these 6 month olds are trying to deceive you.....several children died from the parents using this horrible book filled with abuse..YOu put baby on blanket and deliberately put toys off the blanket when the baby tries to crawl off you hit them with pvc  pipe because it hurts more but doesn't mark as much,........you break their spirit....mr pearl in the book joyfully described how  the children just seeing the the pipe laying there will be TOO TERRIFIED to disobey.......

Edited December 2, 2021 by sue450

[emmawoodhouse]

16 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

Now all we need is for Austin to refuse to allow his kids to be in the same place as Josh.  You never know what JB told him.  He probably said that In Touch was a gossip mag, leaving out the entire police report thing.  Maybe Austin didn't think about it too much until the feds kicked in his bro in law's door.  Either way, anything he sees or hears in court might just prompt him to protect his kids.

Exactly what I was thinking. The gossip rag narrative is furthered by the girls' lawsuit against InTouch. I doubt Austin ever bothered to look at the police report for that reason. 

I'd bet Derelict's the only spouse who has read it. Jeremy is a possibility, but I lean NO. 

[farmgal4]

42 minutes ago, Gemma Violet said:

WOACB is saying her source says Austin is furious because he has previously only known the watered-down version of what happened to Joy and has now learned that there was a lot more to the story than he knew.

I can believe that, and I would absolutely love for Austin to cold-cock Smugger.

[Zella]

7 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Exactly what I was thinking. The gossip rag narrative is furthered by the girls' lawsuit against InTouch. I doubt Austin ever bothered to look at the police report for that reason. 

I'd bet Derelict's the only spouse who has read it. Jeremy is a possibility, but I lean NO. 

I can see them having an instinctive mistrust for InTouch, but the lawsuit isn't against InTouch anymore. The defendant list has whittled down considerably, and it's now down to only 3 Arkansas officials apparently. 

https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2021/oct/21/duggar-sisters-lawsuit-presents-different-issues/

Edited December 2, 2021 by Zella

[emmawoodhouse]

Just now, Zella said:

I can see them having an instinctive mistrust for InTouch, but the lawsuit isn't against InTouch anymore. The defendant list has whittled down considerably, and it's now down to only 3 Arkansas officials. 

https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2021/oct/21/duggar-sisters-lawsuit-presents-different-issues/

Right, but as you noted, they have a deep-seated distrust of tabloids. I don't think it matters that InTouch squirmed out of the lawsuit; they are still considered The Enemy.

[Zella]

Just now, emmawoodhouse said:

they are still considered The Enemy.

Agreed! 

[sue450]

2 hours ago, CandyCaneTree said:

Jana their mom is watching them. 

in the world of Gothard/fundy the marriage ALWAYS  comes first children 2nd

[GeeGolly]

The funny, but really not funny at all, thing about InTouch is, this particular asshole move the publication made was printing the truth.

[Zella]

1 minute ago, GeeGolly said:

The funny, but really not funny at all, thing about InTouch is, this particular asshole move the publication made was printing the truth.

Yeah to be honest, I don't think I've ever seen InTouch print anything about them that wasn't sourced. 

[hathorlive]

28 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

The funny, but really not funny at all, thing about InTouch is, this particular asshole move the publication made was printing the truth.

It's the like National Enquirer outing Gary Hart. No one believed it until it was true.  We are conditioned to not trust certain magazines. I think that is going away quickly with "fake news".  People are being taught to mistrust EVERYTHING unless its from the cult leader.

All of these kids (minus Derrick and Jeremey) are brainwashed kids who have not been taught critical thinking skills.  I don't expect them to dissect things like we would. Questioning things is bad and evil in their world.  I do hope Austin realizes that he has just as good a grip on life as his stupid in laws.  He might actually realize even his parents aren't right all the time.  It's called growing up.

[SusanM]

I wonder how Smuggar feels his first day in court went.  He's so damn cocky I would assume he actually thinks he's sitting pretty.  But surely his family and his lawyers may be telling him something different.  Or are we all reading this wrong and Smuggar and his supporters are anticipating victory?

[Churchhoney]

14 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Weren't all the details in the police report?

Pretty much.

I think it is possible that he really didn't seek out anything to read about the case, though. I'm sure JB and M did their utmost to steer everyone away from reading anything. And he and his father were IBLP. And the Duggs were IBLP royalty. [Just noticed that I originally typed IMDB. 😁 That's what the Duggs wish, not quite what the truth is...] They might just have taken his prospective/new in-laws' word for what happened. And Joy was little when it all happened....Her parents might have pretty successfully convinced her that it was all the way they said it was. i.e., no big deal. So....next topic! 

Maybe Joy told Austin she didn't want to talk about it any more and they should just move on. 

Not saying it did happen that way. But I do think it could have JB and M have had a helluva lot of influence in their bubble. And teenage/20-something guys don't tend to be that interested in the details of people's doings -- they've got other interests.....

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Churchhoney

[CandyCaneTree]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

He knows. Miss C Balls is likely making it all up. He was caught in a screen shot reading about Josh's arrest on his phone a while back. I'm sure he's read everything we have.

All her unnamed sources are us and reddit. 

[Zella]

 

5 minutes ago, SusannahM said:

I wonder how Smuggar feels his first day in court went.  He's so damn cocky I would assume he actually thinks he's sitting pretty.  But surely his family and his lawyers may be telling him something different.  Or are we all reading this wrong and Smuggar and his supporters are anticipating victory?

I thought he looked a little less perky than usual in the photos outside the courthouse today. Not like obviously defeated, but there was less smug to my eye. 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Zella

[emmawoodhouse]

9 minutes ago, CandyCaneTree said:

All her unnamed sources are us and reddit. 

Speaking of WOACB, apparently she went live today and basically read The Sun's recap verbatim and passed it off as her own. 

[Tuxcat]

So I've read a few different recap versions. One, Anna wouldn't have been able to see the video evidence since apparently the jury had their own screens and volume was off. The jury didn't seem to flinch except for one juror. One of the defense attorneys blocked Josh from the jury's vision while the clips played (and was really only a few seconds). Two, Derrick walked in a little after opening remarks and shook Josh's hand. Josh said something about "haha, nice to meet you." Derrick sat with Anna and someone who is being identified as Santa  - they all sat up front. Austin also arrived later in the day and sat in the back. Three, the defense said essentially that Duggar is dumb because of homeschool and wouldn't know how to install a linx partition or use a tor browser...but then says he used peer to peer and other methods for car dealings. Contradiction right in the opening statements it seems. I find it almost offensive that they say this is a like a "murder mystery" and "we're going to investigate together because they didnt." They seem to be insinuating that someone could access Josh's open router and download material from another location. They simultaneously imply that everyone had access to the computer. I feel like the defense should pick a lane but really they are just throwing out any other possibility of "who done it."   <Josh did seem confused about Tor vs. Torrent -- but can someone help me out and remind me if they did indeed find Tor on the office computer> 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Tuxcat

[Zella]

Just now, emmawoodhouse said:

Speaking of WOACB, apparently she went live today and basically read The Sun's recap verbatim and passed it off as her own. 

😂😂😂 I laughed so hard at this my dog gave me side-eye.

If I'm not mistaken, the person on Reddit who was observing the trial said that WOACB stole her summary and then claimed a friend called and gave it to her. LMAO  

1 minute ago, Tuxcat said:

but can someone help me out and remind me if they did indeed find Tor on the office computer> 

Yes Tor was on the computer. It was how the CSAM was accessed.