Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Lemons]

First I want to preface this by saying I in no way condone what happened. I would also like to say that I am a foster care case worker and have worked with many teen sexual offenders and quite a few have grown up and not reoffended and lead normal productive lives. Who knows what if any type of treatment josh got but he may no longer have those thoughts or perversions.

Based on the report, his mother claims that he did not receive counseling.  Because of this, he is at high risk for re-offending.  Even if he did receive counseling, if he had compulsions to touch little girls, that doesn't just typically go away. Someone with this problem would usually need counseling for life.  Especially now that he has his own little girl.  

Edited May 22, 2015 by Lemons

[Boofish]

Question for the mods - Can I post what I have been told by someone that works for TLC or is it considered hearsay? It verifies the names of two of his victims

[ZoloftBlob]

Michelle said transgender people wants to molest children. Yet her very own child did it.

 

This. I really need to hear Michelle explain why she's so proud to throw the stones against those transgender folks when her own son molested her daughters. Really, is it because he went for the girls and wears boy clothes, Michelle? Is that it? Your boy was being "all boy" when he violated your daughters (that you likely think tempted him) so its Christian? While those evil transgender people are evil?

 

Michelle, Jimbob - tend your own house. People who raise child molestors and cover it up *should not* throw stones.

[galax-arena]

The masses may be happy about the Duggars' downfall but I'm certainly not.

I'd be happy if only there weren't innocent abuse victims involved here.

 

I'm of two minds re: cancelling the show. As others have said, this might only further isolate the Duggar girls and make them feel guilty for all of the fall-out. Plus you know that Jim Bob and Michelle will probably blame them for everything (especially whoever wrote that letter). But look at it another way. By continuing the show, what does it say to all the other abuse victims out there? Doesn't it just reinforce the message that abusers can get away with it scot-free? And consider the fact that the show is responsible for giving a platform for the Duggars to spew their hatred against various minority groups, and thus you can argue that the show itself indirectly contributes to the further victimization of vulnerable populations. Would Michelle Duggar have had as much traction with those anti-trans robocalls if she hadn't been Michelle Duggar of 19 Kids and Counting? And Josh Duggar certainly wouldn't have been given a position with the FRC.

Edited May 22, 2015 by galax-arena

[Boofish]

This. I really need to hear Michelle explain why she's so proud to throw the stones against those transgender folks when her own son molested her daughters. Really, is it because he went for the girls and wears boy clothes, Michelle? Is that it? Your boy was being "all boy" when he violated your daughters (that you likely think tempted him) so its Christian? While those evil transgender people are evil?

 

Michelle, Jimbob - tend your own house. People who raise child molestors and cover it up *should not* throw stones.

Dearly beloved we are gathered here today to witness the marriage of Irony and Karma

[JAYJAY1979]

I feel bad for the victims and his children.

Edited May 22, 2015 by JAYJAY1979

[Bella]

Question for the mods - Can I post what I have been told by someone that works for TLC or is it considered hearsay? It verifies the names of two of his victims

 

We'll discuss it. Thanks for asking permission. 

[dillpickles]

What's the policy in linking petitions to get the show dropped, or a gofundme?

[truthtalk2014]

I had dental surgery at 19 and it was done while I had braces, about a year and a half after getting them on.  I know others who had similar surgeries all done with braces on so they could be telling the truth.  I didn't see the interview were Josh and Anna there?

Yes, Josh and Anna were there.  And yea I know people have dental surgery with braces on but most of the people I know that are getting braces, have any known surgeries, extractions, etc done before the braces are put on.  It just seems fishy.

[CofCinci]

This. Wins the Internet this morning.

BTW, Josh's LinkedIn profile has already been updated with the end date of his FRC job, although as of now the text still reads in the present tense. https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshduggar

So he's playing on social media while his pregnant wife's life is falling apart.

[Cherrio]

I do not feel continuing the show will help or protect the children's futures.   Their futures with the show before this scandal were severely limited and very sad.

Money has not been used to send any of them to a real school, most of them never graduated or got a GED right?      Money has been spent on hideous plastic plants, endless amounts of ugly party decorations and ramen noodles.

              I saw Michelle cutting up ramen noodles for Josie recently and its still bothering me.  They can afford better than that and they feed that poor little kid chemical noodles.

       Maybe it has already happened like I talked about in my Ben/Jessa scenario, but I still feel the break has to come from within to save and deprogram these kids.

        There has to be at least a couple of them that have known all along that their life is wrong.

[JoanArc]

I feel like the show & associated was such a cancer on the family, the only way to help them was to cut it out. Imagine if this hadn't happened. Josh, a molester, getting off Scott free, his victims suffer in silence, basically forever. The show would've eventually petered out on its own, with everyone's pockets a bit larger. Then what? it all would've stayed under the rug. And really, I think the kids were doomed to crappy lives no matter what happened. This scandal may free a few. If one escapes, I think that's the bridge to all escaping.

 

Except Josh. Screw him.

Edited May 22, 2015 by JoanArc

[BitterApple]

Yes, Josh and Anna were there. And yea I know people have dental surgery with braces on but most of the people I know that are getting braces, have any known surgeries, extractions, etc done before the braces are put on. It just seems fishy.

Especially jaw realignment surgery. You'd think that's something they would do before the braces go on. Given that Derick has to work a real job in the real world he may have wanted to start putting as much distance between himself and the Duggars as quickly as possible. Jill may have felt obligated to go through with the interview but was clearly fearful and tense.

Edited May 22, 2015 by BitterApple

[Kellyee]

I think Josh's career in politics is pretty much sunk, even with Mike Huckabee backing him up. Sending pictures of your penis over Twitter is something people will laugh at and forgive later, but fondling your little sisters is pretty disturbing and unsettling. Even though I suspect it was because of Josh's severely repressed upbringing and no access to other girls and probably being told any sexual acting out (like healthy masturbation) is sinful. I'm not really sure I would classify him as a pedophile, as much as you can know anyone from television.

 

Funny how the Duggar girls have given no statements, and the Duggars made no mention in police reports of getting counseling for their girls and better supervising their kids. By my count, they had at least 5 more babies after Josh was caught touching his sisters.

[3 is enough]

 

BTW, Josh's LinkedIn profile has already been updated with the end date of his FRC job, although as of now the text still reads in the present tense.

Really? All this crap going down and the first thing he does is update his Linkedin profile???  WTF???  Cause we all know people will be lining up to hire him.  

Just when I think he can't sink any lower he does.  What a vile excuse for a man.

[Guest]

TMZ says TLC has yanked the show from its schedule but has made no long-term decision on what to do next.

[Rhondinella]

What's the policy in linking petitions to get the show dropped, or a gofundme?

 

I think it's OK, but let me check with my fellow mods and get back to you.

[Cherrio]

I think Josh's career in politics is pretty much sunk, even with Mike Huckabee backing him up. Sending pictures of your penis over Twitter is something people will laugh at and forgive later, but fondling your little sisters is pretty disturbing and unsettling. Even though I suspect it was because of Josh's severely repressed upbringing and no access to other girls and probably being told any sexual acting out (like healthy masturbation) is sinful. I'm not really sure I would classify him as a pedophile, as much as you can know anyone from television.

 

Funny how the Duggar girls have given no statements, and the Duggars made no mention in police reports of getting counseling for their girls and better supervising their kids. By my count, they had at least 5 more babies after Josh was caught touching his sisters.

I ain't gonna do it, but Josh could of been wandering "around" online. I think one of the emails or people who knew about this mentioned Josh being active on porn sites.

  Google Fundie Diddler and see if a pic of Josh comes up.   Of course the pic probably would not be of his face.

[truthtalk2014]

I had missed the part on P18 where one of the girls mentions JB recounting a scene where someone (could be Amy from the size of the redaction) was at their home babysitting and fell asleep on the sofa and Josh touched her breasts.  But to me, it definitely means it was someone outside the family.  

[zenme]

Maybe a Query?

[bumblebee]

I'd like to join the discussion to add, while I agree that this whole incident is very sad at the base of it all is the fact that those two are inept to parent children.

Anyone who has worked with trauma and abuse survivors can tell you that when a youth molests it is more than likely that they themselves were abused as children. Child services should be brought in to investigate because for all we know Josh was being molested as a child as well I'm sure none of us would be shocked to find that out.

The whole family needs some heavy duty therapy, beginning with boob and Mechelle. I can only hope that all the victims will get help and that an investigation will begin soon because who knows the younger kids could be doing it too, abuse is a cycle and nobody is ending it in that house.

Edited May 22, 2015 by bumblebee

[truthtalk2014]

Maybe a Query?

It was a short name.  I don't know the Query girls names.  What is the Hortano girls name?

[Cherrio]

TMZ says TLC has yanked the show from its schedule but has made no long-term decision on what to do next.

TMZ included that General Mills has yanked their sponsorship.   Don't know if its true or not, but I hope it is.   If it is true, then the show is finished. Ultimately, the sponsors have the power.

[elainebenis]

http://www.mediaite.com/online/mike-huckabee-stands-by-duggar-family-good-people-make-mistakes/

 

hope it's ok to share this link... Huckabee statements...

OMG. Huckabee's statement makes me want to hurl. What a deceitful, evil man.

[VioletNevermind]

Aaaaaand DONE. I hope Josh is proud of himself. He, along with his idiot parents, have sunk the ship with their ineptitude, irresponsibility and arrogance.

If Josh EVER says one more effing public word about how homosexuality is ruining the fabric of the American family, I'm going to lose it.

[DoctorWhovian]

Also regarding Huckabees support: Huckabee has no shot at the republican nomination so it doesn't hurt him to stick with Josh. Instead, it keeps the kinds of people who like Huckabee happy because they're the type who accept "God forgave me" as an excuse.

[ghoulina]

I had missed the part on P18 where one of the girls mentions JB recounting a scene where someone (could be Amy from the size of the redaction) was at their home babysitting and fell asleep on the sofa and Josh touched her breasts.  But to me, it definitely means it was someone outside the family.

 

Yes, it appears that there were 4 sisters molested (one was questioned, but was not actually touched) and someone else. I thought Amy too. When you read the report, you can almost judge from the size of the blacked out names who they are talking about. Having Amy over to babysit would make more sense to me than anything else. 

 

The thing I am most fuzzy about is the timeline of it all. It seems the parents were made aware at some point and Josh was "talked to", but it continued to happen a few more times. Was the babysitting incident after the parents were already aware he touching his sleeping sisters in the bedroom? If so, shame on them for leaving him alone in the home with all those girls. I don't know that I could cast out my 14-year-old son. But a quick prayer for forgiveness isn't going to cut it. Those parents should have become hyper vigilant. Maybe even have Boob and Josh start sleeping in that Godforsaken apt they put Ben in. 

[dillpickles]

It was a short name. I don't know the Query girls names. What is the Hortano girls name?

I think it was Jennifer.

[JoanArc]

 

Maybe even have Boob and Josh start sleeping in that Godforsaken apt they put Ben in.

Like anything's more important that Jim Bob and Michelle's sweet fellowship. Not even abuse.

[Granny58]

"Even though I suspect it was because of Josh's severely repressed upbringing and no access to other girls and probably being told any sexual acting out (like healthy masturbation) is sinful"  

 

THIS!!!!  I feel Josh has been a victim in this as well and that the blame falls entirely on his parents' shoulders.  This is all too much "Flowers in the Attic."   Instead of teaching Josh how to act in a respectful, moral way in the REAL world and allowed to be alone with a nonrelated girl, he was kept cloistered.  No unchaperoned dating, no hanging out with a group of guys and girls at a mall (or whatever).  In fact, did he "date" at all?  Or was it just meeting Anna, and then starting a courtship (because that means marriage is intended).  His sisters, sorry to say, were the ONLY female he had access to.  He obviously shouldn't have done it, but this hormonal, befuddled 15 year old had a lot going against him.  

[okerry]

According to TMZ, all showings of *19 Kids* have been pulled from the TLC schedule.

[cereality]

There's so much I don't get about this but mainly -- the Duggars go on and on about how THEIR way is better. Their kids know God. Those other kids -- they have purple hair, are sitting next to girls in college, and gasp -- dating. So how is it that their Godly 14 yr old got into touching his sisters' junk?? While the vast majority of his godless heathen peers (who he didn't socialize with -- but other 14 yr olds in that town) who maybe only went to church for Christmas, Easter, and the occasional wedding -- figured out that touching sisters or any girl without her consent was a no-no. I'm fairy sure most godless heathens don't tell their sons "now don't ever touch your sister's boobs" yet the sons figure it out.

 

That life he coveted for himself -- in DC, away from his family, making a nice six figure living -- that's over and he's never getting that back. Sure he'll work again in time, but it'll have to be for JB or some contact of JB who understands and forgives and forgets.

 

This family already has few friends, but I imagine the Bates are distancing themselves even further -- since who wants to be associated with this kind of thing -- esp when you have your own young kids AND you're also relying on some TV income and don't want the taint to somehow spread to you or all mega families.

[dillpickles]

http://m.tmz.com/#Article/2015/05/22/tlc-pulls-19-kids-and-counting-josh-duggar-molestation-scandal

General Mills blacklisted the show. Oh, how the mighty have fallen

[Rhondinella]

Hey, for the moment could we cease and desist with the attempts to determine exactly what names were redacted? I want to get some guidance from on high about this before continuing (or not). I'll get back to you. Just sit tight on that subject for the moment.  Thanks.

[MarysWetBar]

I'm sorry to sound cruel and yes his parents own most of this shit but i have two sons. They knew better at that age. Trying to absolve him of this is not right. He should have been removed from the home and received real counselling. End of rant.

I'm concerned about the girls.

[Literata]

Reading this, I'm pretty convinced they need to go. All great points.

 

http://time.com/3894417/josh-duggar-19-kids-and-counting-molestation/

 

[Bella]

Question for the mods - Can I post what I have been told by someone that works for TLC or is it considered hearsay? It verifies the names of two of his victims

 

We just heard back from the site administrator, and he said no, he doesn't want that posted.

 

Again, thanks for asking.

[Literata]

TLC's going to be in dire straits. The Willises aren't cutting it as Duggars 2.0; the newer little-people shows are interchangeable, and the Little Couple isn't adopting any more kids for the time being, presumably. And really, how many more wedding dresses can we sit through?

 

So many of the other shows -- Breaking Amish, the gypsy ones -- are just tawdry. It's going to be interesting to see what they come up with.

[galax-arena]

I really have no desire to learn the girls' names, anyway. What purpose would that serve other than to fulfill our own selfish curiosity? They deserve at the very least some semblance of privacy. Most respectable publications generally refuse to make public the name of the alleged victim when the crime pertains to sexual assault. 

[Quilt Fairy]

Jeez, I leave this forum for one day to read all the posts about the Survivor finale and I come back to this......

 

Would Anna truly have no resources if she left Josh?  I understand that she has few marketable skills and would have 4 small children to raise, but what about alimony and child support? Surely they have that in Arkansas.

[JAYJAY1979]

Very sad indeed...especially reading on Facebook how he should be forgiven and that we shouldn't throw stones. Blame.the victim seems to.be the theme of.society.

Edited May 22, 2015 by JAYJAY1979

[b2H]

There is one thing bothering me. Let me preface by saying that Josh should be held fully accountable.

However, is it fair to say that he 'knew better' than to do this, based on his lack of socialization? Given the lack of outside world contact, where would he have learned that this behavior was improper? Was he ever in an unsupervised environment where ANYone would have been available for him to talk to? As the first born, this kid was more isolated than any of his siblings.

Surely Doofus and Mechelle wouldn't have done. So i am wondering from where he would've been properly instructed.

[Rhondinella]

What's the policy in linking petitions to get the show dropped, or a gofundme?

 

 

Have been told this is fine.  Link away.

[amkiss]

Looks like TMZ is posting that TLC is removing 19 Kids and Counting from the TV Show lineup!http://www.tmz.com/2015/05/22/tlc-pulls-19-kids-and-counting-josh-duggar-molestation-scandal/

[galax-arena]

Given the lack of outside world contact, where would he have learned that this behavior was improper?

If he honestly had no idea that his behavior was improper, IMO he would have done it out in the open, instead of scurrying off to laundry rooms or sneaking up on girls while they were asleep.

 

We're not talking about young children who rub their genitals in public because it feels good and they haven't learned proper boundaries yet. Josh did this in secret, he knew it wasn't right.

Edited May 22, 2015 by galax-arena

[silverspoons]

TLC's going to be in dire straits. The Willises aren't cutting it as Duggars 2.0; the newer little-people shows are interchangeable, and the Little Couple isn't adopting any more kids for the time being, presumably. And really, how many more wedding dresses can we sit through?

 

So many of the other shows -- Breaking Amish, the gypsy ones -- are just tawdry. It's going to be interesting to see what they come up with.

I wonder if TLC regrets giving up the rights to the Bates' show? Forgetting about what secrets are lurking behind any of these large families, the Bates' show is the most watchable of any of them.

[AnJen]

 

Even though I suspect it was because of Josh's severely repressed upbringing and no access to other girls and probably being told any sexual acting out (like healthy masturbation) is sinful

 

Sexual abuse seems kind of worse on the scale than masturbation, even to extremely religious people. Put yourself in the shoes of a horny, sexually repressed teen boy...you can either touch yourself and no one will know. Or you can touch your sisters, possibly as young as 5 years old, and definitely risk being caught. One of those makes way more sense than the other.

 

Thousands, even millions, of people in the world grow up in homes where sex is demonized like this...they don't all just start abusing their siblings. This was a choice Josh made, and while Michelle and JimBob should be held accountable for their poor parenting decisions that led to this choice, I think people need to address the fact that Josh 100% had other outlets and still chose to molest his little sisters. His guilt isn't lessened because he had crappy parents and a crazy religion.

 

He obviously had access to privacy to masturbate. There was an early special where one of the littles mentioned that no one was allowed to be in the bathroom with them because it's private. These kids aren't allowed to give each other a hug or a kiss on the cheek; do you think they're bathing together or keeping their "accountability partner" with them while they shower? That was obviously alone time for them. He could have jerked it out in the shower to get those urges out, and he. chose. instead. to. molest. little. girls. And yes, I consider a 13- or 14-year old a little girl.

 

I need to step away from this story. 

Edited May 22, 2015 by AnJen
lecturing other posters

[Cherrio]

http://m.tmz.com/#Article/2015/05/22/tlc-pulls-19-kids-and-counting-josh-duggar-molestation-scandal

General Mills blacklisted the show. Oh, how the mighty have fallen

I posted too about TMZ stating that General Mills has pulled their sponsorship, but it is not true.   I just called the company and I was told they are certainly aware of what is going on, but at this time they have not made a decision.

[dillpickles]

Have been told this is fine. Link away.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/945/442/875/petition-of-tlc-to-drop-the-show-19-kids-and-counting/

Still working on the gofundme, I'll add that in soon.

[BitterApple]

I think the TIME article makes some great points however I disagree with the author's assertion that the audience had a right to know about the molestation prior to the beginning of 19K&C. The Duggars' hypocrisy has been on full display for years. Those of us who watched the show regularly didn't need to know the girls were molested in order to understand their lifestyle is a sham. FWIW, the possibility of sexual/physical abuse has been floating around on the forums for years but discussion was forbidden by mods because it was, at that time, speculation and not fact. I don't think too many of us are surprised that this finally came out.