Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[bigskygirl]

He is still overweight and out of shape.

[EtheltoTillie]

Hobby Lobby will cover all FDA-approved birth control methods, including oral contraceptives, except Plan B, Next Choice, and Ella (which are "morning after"-type pills), and IUDs, because those are all potentially abortifacient. 

I don't want to start a debate on this topic, as it is quite inflammatory.  I just want to report that it was revealed today in a Mother Jones story that the Hobby Lobby family has been supporting Gothard for years to the tune of millions in donations (buildings and land and money).  Apparently, they gave Gothard's group the Big Sandy property.  There was a picture shown of Josh posing with members of the Green family.  So there is a fairly direct tie with the Duggars.  If the mods deem this inappropriate, please let me know.

[Bella]

That's the "direct" relationship we asked for, @GussieK , so it looks okay to me.

 

We just don't want to get into a culture/religion war here, for obvious reasons. Thanks.

[PecanSandie]

Seriously Mods, ya'll rock! MANY forums could take a lesson from your evenhanded-ness, if that's even a word!

[bigskygirl]

I guess Joy and Jana are in D.C. with Smuggly Do Rite and family. One way to escape is to go to Joshie's house. Lucky girls.

[Sew Sumi]

He just ran a 5K per his instagram...

He averaged 13 minute miles. FFS, I can WALK faster than that and I live in a very hilly area (not to mention, I'm about twice his age). I have a feeling Jana and Joy stayed at home with the M-Kids, although they were picked up later as they passed out patriotic million dollar tracts from Ray Comfort on the National Mall. I found the tracts hilarious, as they featured deist Thomas Jefferson, and not a more "godly" founding father. LOL

[Rhondinella]

Ok, yes, that's slow.  But he isn't going to get thinner by NOT exercising, so it seems weird to criticize him for doing it.  I also am not small and have run several 5Ks, or really ran-walked them.  I wasn't doing it to win any speed records, just to motivate myself to get out and run more.  Nothing wrong with that.  And he'll never work up to real speed unless he actually, you know, does it.  Mocking that just seems cruel to me, sorry.

[trimthatfat]

I wasn't doing it to win any speed records, just to motivate myself to get out and run more.  Nothing wrong with that. 

 

ITA. At least he's moving. I'm not a fan of downing people for not running fast enough or not completing a physical activity fast enough. I walk/ran what some might consider a pretty slow 5K my first two tries, but I was proud because I could have easily sat my ass on the couch and watched a Real Housewives episode instead. But I chose to take my health into my hands. IMO, it's not about how long Josh took - I just hope he remains active. I think it would be good for Anna to be active, too.

[CofCinci]

I'd like to be able to see what the papers on his desk have written on them.

Ha! Looks like he opened up his cellphone bill on his desk to create a false appearance of importance.

[bigskygirl]

I am happy to be able to walk around my neighborhood without tripping over the speed bumps or not get run over by a nitwit who thinks he or she is above the ten mile by hour speed limit or  do not make a complete stop at the stop signs.

 

Josh does not look good. The extra weight and not exercising can lead to heart disease and other serious medical conditions. He has a wife and three young kids at home to think about. I lost an aunt who was only in her 40s to diabetes and heart problems, and almost lost one uncle to a nasty heart attack the same year I graduated from high school. My husband was only 39 years old when he was diagnosed with Acute Renal Failure. The kidney specialist thought his kidneys were slowly being eaten up by bacteria and/or an infection for ten to fifteen years. He was given two weeks to live, and the ER doctor was surprise he was still alive. I may not agree with Josh 100%, but I would hate to see Anna and the kids go through the pain of seeing him die or dealing with a life threatening medical condition.

[Rhondinella]

Yes, but your argument is counter-intuitive.  The very fact that he is running means he's trying to lose weight and be healthier.  I'm not sure anything else needs to be said about this, so let's move on, please.

[trimthatfat]

Josh does have pretty shitty attributes and I see nothing wrong with snarking on every last one of them. However,  I just felt like not being to complete a 5K in 5 minutes shouldn't fall under that. [snip]

Edited July 7, 2014 by Rhondinella

[starfire]

I read that several TLC crew members were filming Josh at the 5k, so it appears we will have the opportunity to be blessed with more details and visuals on an upcoming episode. 

[bigskygirl]

I wonder if he wore shorts.  Hmmmm...

[starfire]

If you scroll to the bottom of this page, there is a pic of Josh at the 5k surrounded by TLC crew members. It sort of looks like shorts, but can't really tell.

http://kimruns.blogspot.com/2014/07/firecracker-5k-cheerapalooza.html?showComment=1404507494567

[MrMattyMatt]

I wonder if he wore shorts.  Hmmmm...

Very hard to tell.  Anna is wearing a big rag around her neck in an effort to conceal her boobage.  Maybe she has been reading all the comments regarding her bridesmaid dress?

[starfire]

Shorts confirmation: https://www.flickr.com/photos/potomacriverrunning/14593069553/in/set-72157645508902864

[Ljohnson1987]

It's Smuggar's fault if he can't eat healthy. Anna takes on unnecessary guilt. 

[Rhondinella]

Thank you to everyone who has moved on as I requested above.  Warnings are being handed out to those who do not.

 

Also?  "Liking" a post wherein someone is flagrantly dissing the moderator?  Probably not a great idea.  Just FYI.

[Ivy26]

It's Smuggar's fault if he can't eat healthy. Anna takes on unnecessary guilt. 

 

I agree to a point.  There is an interesting article on Cracked.com (I'm at work, and the stupid Websense block won't let me link it) talking about the habits you develop growing up poor.  Before the cameras showed up, neither the Duggar or Keller clans were well off by any stretch of the imagination.  One of the habits was buying cheap, canned food that would last a long time due to not wanting food to spoil.  Anna learned from her mother how to buy food, and I doubt His Smugness helps.  I sincerely doubt Journey to the Heart or ALERT Academy features a nutrition class.  Food habits are learned.  You don't just move out on your own, newly married, and cast off the cream of glop soups and embrace Whole Foods.

Edited July 7, 2014 by Ivy26

[Rhondinella]

Hell, I've been married 24 years and my husband and I have both have decent paying jobs and *I* can't afford to shop at Whole Foods. Seriously.  And as someone who grew up less-than-privileged with blue-collar parents, things like fruit (unless it was apples or bananas) and fresh vegetables were pretty much unknown in our diet.  That's because they were expensive.  And we only had two kids in our family. So, yes, that certainly plays a part.  It took me a long time to unlearn those habits and figure out how to cook with healthy ingredients.

[RedheadZombie]

All my veggies came from a can growing up. I still can't eat fresh greenbeans. I like them mushy and grayish from a can. That sounds disgusting, doesn't it?

[cmr2014]

I come from a large family, and my experience is that I was much closer to my siblings than I was to my parents. I think that Josh is probably the only person who really knows what the J'Slaves have been through. I think he loves Anna, and wants her to be happy (and I think her self-worth is tied up in baby-making), but he also loves his kids. I don't think he wants MacKenzie to live the life of a J'Slave.

 

There are subtle signs of him breaking away (like the shorts), and his siblings seem to really enjoy trips to DC -- they might actually be able to speak to one another with some candor in that environment.

 

I don't find Josh especially likable, and I don't like his politics, but I think his heart is in the right place when it comes to his family. Of course, this is all conjecture based on my own experience . . .

[trimthatfat]

Glad Josh sucked it up and wore a pair of shorts. So much more comfortable than a pair of thick denim jeans.

[Literata]

 

Shorts confirmation: https://www.flickr.c...157645508902864

Holy kneecaps, Batman. Consider me defrauded.

 

On a totally unrelated note, WHO does Josh look like? I've always thought he has a totally different look from the rest of them.

[McKay]

I think Jinger and Jennifer look like Josh, but I can't figure out which parent he got his looks from.  He looked a lot like JimBob as a kid, but now I don't see a lot of either parent in him.

[Marigny]

I think Jinger and Jennifer look like Josh, but I can't figure out which parent he got his looks from.  He looked a lot like JimBob as a kid, but now I don't see a lot of either parent in him.

Wonder if he looks like the neighbor Michelle defrauded with her bikini lawn mowing? I kid. I kid!

[MrMattyMatt]

I think all three M kids look bigtime like Pa Keller. 

[Literata]

 

I think all three M kids look bigtime like Pa Keller.

Agreed, especially Mackynzie (sp?) and Marcus. Michael looks a little less moon-faced and perhaps favors the Duggars a bit more. 

[McKay]

Michael looks exactly like Josh did as a little boy.  I always thought he favored the Duggar side anyway, but Anna posted pictures of Josh at Michael's age.  The resemblance is incredibly strong. 

[Literata]

Josh isn't ugly -- he's just smug, obnoxious and bloated. Michael could do worse; poor Pa Keller isn't much of a looker. 

[Vantraveller]

Just re watched their engagement episode. Awkward on so many levels from Anna and her Mom wearing the same top (WTF??) to Josh and Anna not having anything to say after getting engaged except "oh wow" and Josh saying more than once "its half a carat". They sat there like two people who didn't even know each other.

[Rhondinella]

Yeah, I was kinda surprised that when he walked up to her in the restaurant she didn't say, "And who are you again?"

[SnarkyMcSnarkerson]

I'd like to be able to see what the papers on his desk have written on them.

They're probably written in crayon.

[DangerousMinds]

Does anyone think he does much of his own research into issues, or even look up words he doesn't know?

[bigskygirl]

Nope, I do not think he does his own research or look up words. They hired him because they think his family name will bring attention to certain issues, in otherwords, bring in my soldiers for God's Army and to bring in more money donations. It scares to think some people take what he thinks or say(or should I say his parents were brainwashed  to believe and later brainwashed Joshie to believe) as the gospel.

[Sundaymorning]

Nope, I do not think he does his own research or look up words. They hired him because they think his family name will bring attention to certain issues, in otherwords, bring in my soldiers for God's Army and to bring in more money donations. It scares to think some people take what he thinks or say(or should I say his parents were brainwashed  to believe and later brainwashed Joshie to believe) as the gospel.

This.

I doubt he was hired because of his awesome education or skills, but for PR purposes. His job is to pose for pictures, make some (ATI approved) statements and post it on his social media sites. And if he gets his whole family to participate in an "event", then even better.

Edited July 14, 2014 by Sundaymorning

[Ljohnson1987]

Smuggar having crayons would assume that he actually works. I doubt it.  He just uses his fame to get ahead without doing anything. Anna picked a real gem.

Smuggar has no education to get a job like this. They probably saw his last name and dollar signs ran through their eyes. Newsflash, FRC.  TLC would never film where Smuggar "Works".  They're classier than that. 

[SnarkyMcSnarkerson]

Smuggar having crayons would assume that he actually works. I doubt it.  He just uses his fame to get ahead without doing anything. Anna picked a real gem.

Smuggar has no education to get a job like this. They probably saw his last name and dollar signs ran through their eyes. Newsflash, FRC.  TLC would never film where Smuggar "Works".  They're classier than that. 

 

I wish they would film him there, just so we can see him try to write a speech or something...in crayon lol. It'll never happen, though, so I'll just have to look at my niece's drawings and picture Joshie getting up to stump for some poor candidate with one of her drawings as a guide!

Edited July 14, 2014 by SnarkyMcSnarkerson

[Absolom]

I think Josh got the job not because of who he knew but who knew about him. 

[mimionthebeach]

Does anyone think he does much of his own research into issues, or even look up words he doesn't know?

 

Not too long ago I watched the anniversary episode where the Smuggars go to "the nicest restaurant that [Anna] has ever been to". I'm assuming this was their 5th anniversary and in the DC area.  In his TH, Josh said he struggled with the menu because there were some big words. The SOTDRT hasn't even prepared him to read menus in his own country. I don't have him pegged as a life-long-learner. While he may manage a dictionary if someone suggested it, researching policy issues is likely beyond him. He's a mouth-piece at best, but mostly just a brand name.

[Sundaymorning]

Not too long ago I watched the anniversary episode where the Smuggars go to "the nicest restaurant that [Anna] has ever been to". I'm assuming this was their 5th anniversary and in the DC area.  In his TH, Josh said he struggled with the menu because there were some big words. The SOTDRT hasn't even prepared him to read menus in his own country. I don't have him pegged as a life-long-learner. While he may manage a dictionary if someone suggested it, researching policy issues is likely beyond him. He's a mouth-piece at best, but mostly just a brand name.

To be fair, if they went to an exotic restaurant or if there was some gourmet food that Duggars usually don't eat, I can undestand that he had trouble with the menu.

 

However, I agree that he has no real education. I'm not a fan of homeschooling, but I think homeschoolers can get a good education if they have parents who are actually competent enough to teach them well, are able to provide a quiet and focused learning environment, and who invest a lot of time in each individual child. But this cleary wasn't the case with J'Chelle and Boob. The Duggars SOTDRT "graduates" are lucky if they somehow managed to learn to read and write on an acceptable level.

In my country, if a family wants to homeschool, the kids have to take tests from the government each year to make sure they learn enough at home. I wonder if the Duggars ever took some similar tests and how they passed.

[mimionthebeach]

To be fair, if they went to an exotic restaurant or if there was some gourmet food that Duggars usually don't eat, I can undestand that he had trouble with the menu.

However, I agree that he has no real education. I'm not a fan of homeschooling, but I think homeschoolers can get a good education if they have parents who are actually competent enough to teach them well, are able to provide a quiet and focused learning environment, and who invest a lot of time in each individual child. But this cleary wasn't the case with J'Chelle and Boob. The Duggars SOTDRT "graduates" are lucky if they somehow managed to learn to read and write on an acceptable level.

In my country, if a family wants to homeschool, the kids have to take tests from the government each year to make sure they learn enough at home. I wonder if the Duggars ever took some similar tests and how they passed.

It's a fair point that some of the menu may have exotic or not in English, my thing was that he said big words. If he'd said strange words...

You're also right in that some countries home schoolers are required to reguarly demonstrate competency in core subjects. My recollection is that Arkansas is pretty liberal with respect to home schooling and, of course, vocabulary is developed through reading which isn't a pastime promoted in the TTH. They can't even be bothered to read up on places they're going to visit. Among the whole clan, nobody could learn to say "yes," "no" or "thank you" in Japanese. Comes across as pride in their ignorance.

[Sundaymorning]

It's a fair point that some of the menu may have exotic or not in English, my thing was that he said big words. If he'd said strange words...

You're also right in that some countries home schoolers are required to reguarly demonstrate competency in core subjects. My recollection is that Arkansas is pretty liberal with respect to home schooling and, of course, vocabulary is developed through reading which isn't a pastime promoted in the TTH. They can't even be bothered to read up on places they're going to visit. Among the whole clan, nobody could learn to say "yes," "no" or "thank you" in Japanese. Comes across as pride in their ignorance.

You know, I own a book which is called (translated in English): "women who read are dangerous". Could be the motto of Gothard and other "patriarchs". Reading too much and knowing too much is clearly not wanted in ATI circles. It would give the kids some insight and some knowledge which gives independence to persue a career outside of the cult.

 

It's almost sad, but I sincerely hope that Josh will pick up a few things in DC when he is hopefully sometimes confronted with people who have other world views and backgrounds. Although I doubt that he dares to explore the city beyond his usual stomping grounds in fundie circles.

[PecanSandie]

The ATI/Bill Gothard cult has a horrible record with second generation ATI kids. A large number of the kids who were raised in it decline to use it on their own kids. It will be interesting to see what Josh and Anna use.

 

It's like they have a huge conundrum, they may not believe in the efficacy of the ATI curriculum, but the pressure on them is high to use it. 

[cmr2014]

 

My recollection is that Arkansas is pretty liberal with respect to home schooling and, of course, vocabulary is developed through reading which isn't a pastime promoted in the TTH.

 

I was watching the marathon last weekend and saw an episode where they were moving. I was shocked to see them packing up shelves of books. Of course, I doubt any of those books were outside of a very few Gothard approved titles, but it was still surprising.

 

It made me wonder if the older children, at least, had gotten some sort of an education before J'chelle completely checked out and left school marming to her teenage daughters. In one of the early episodes, it is said that Josh wanted to be an attorney.

 

It's possible that Josh isn't as dumb as he appears to be, but lacks any sort of exposure to, well, anything really.

[Sundaymorning]

I was watching the marathon last weekend and saw an episode where they were moving. I was shocked to see them packing up shelves of books. Of course, I doubt any of those books were outside of a very few Gothard approved titles, but it was still surprising.

 

It made me wonder if the older children, at least, had gotten some sort of an education before J'chelle completely checked out and left school marming to her teenage daughters. In one of the early episodes, it is said that Josh wanted to be an attorney.

 

It's possible that Josh isn't as dumb as he appears to be, but lacks any sort of exposure to, well, anything really.

 

I don't think Josh or the other kids are dumb in the sense that they have a lack of intelligence. They are just very ignorant and brainwashed.

 

If they would have grown up in a normal family, and would have gotten a solid education, they would be capable of getting decent jobs or even attending a real college.

 

It's going to be interesting to see how homeschooling will work for Josh and Anna. I somehow doubt that Anna will be able to teach the children much that goes beyond basic reading, writing and counting.

[mimionthebeach]

I was watching the marathon last weekend and saw an episode where they were moving. I was shocked to see them packing up shelves of books. Of course, I doubt any of those books were outside of a very few Gothard approved titles, but it was still surprising.

It made me wonder if the older children, at least, had gotten some sort of an education before J'chelle completely checked out and left school marming to her teenage daughters. In one of the early episodes, it is said that Josh wanted to be an attorney.

It's possible that Josh isn't as dumb as he appears to be, but lacks any sort of exposure to, well, anything really.

I saw those marathon eps as well and was shocked at the number of books as well as the "reading loft" in the girls' dorm. I'm never aware of books in the TTH. If they're all Gothard-appoved titles they're probably not beyond a 6th grade level. Doesn't do to have your sheep getting too many of their own ideas.

I don't think the kids are stupid, but they haven't had much of an opportunity to develop their intellect. Michelle has never been the sharpest knife in the drawer and I don't think she's ever placed much value on book learning. Then unloading the schooling onto the poorly educated J'slaves means the younger kids are even further disadvantaged.

Josh has this well-honed sense of superiority and doesn't even realise how ignorant he his. It would be fun to see him cornered by someone capable of intellectual debate on the issues the FRC takes on and completely dumbfounded. Just because he's so smug.

Edited July 15, 2014 by mimionthebeach

[floridamom]

I agree with previous posts here that the Duggar children aren't stupid. I believe that they all have much more potential than they were given the opportunity to explore and pursue. I, also don't think that Josh is dumb either, he has been indoctrinated since a pre schooler, given limited education and opportunity. Many books, and information is banned from all these kids, so their fullest potential will never be realized. They also, are bound by gender roles which restricts them even more. This is one reason that I feel that Jim Bob and Michelle are terrible parents and have the financial resources  to give their kids the education and/or training to pursue their professional goals. No one stops a woman from being a full time wife and mother after working in the outside world. At least she has some training and experience to get back out there if the unthinkable happens to her husband. The limits put on their children are strangling them and that's a sin in itself, of the parents, IMO.

I feel sorry for Josh, really, as he wanted to be an attorney, and maybe if given a proper education he actually might have turned out quite differently.

[mledawn]

The SOTDRT hasn't even prepared him to read menus in his own country. I don't have him pegged as a life-long-learner.

 

I laughed so hard at this sentence, thank you very much mimionthebeach.

In all seriousness, though - the thing that truly bothers me about the Duggars is how the kids' education is not given a priority. It doesn't have to be completely secular if the family doesn't want it to be, but these kids are missing out on basic fundamental knowledge. It's completely irresponsible by Jim Bob and Michelle, and depressing that their community is providing so many uneducated bodies into the world. It's one thing to live in low income communities and be without access to resources and training, but completely another to just ignore your child's education and willingly keep them ignorant.