Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Marigold]

1 hour ago, Absolom said:

I expect the most "professional" or more mainstream than ATI/RU they will go is a pastor at a local Baptist church.  If they go to an SBC pastor at least he will have a college education and may have actually taken a couple of classes in pastoral counseling. 

I agree with Absolom. I think that Cross Church minister is involved somehow. 

Years back, Jim Bob was very isolated from any churches. They home churched. Period. I notice they are interacting with actual churches now.  There are a few photos of them at a church once in a while.  Girls got married in a local church. So, it is a possibility that a real live minister with some actual training is working with Josh and Anna. That would be good news for all of them. 

[NewDigs]

Boob's newer churchgoin' ways probably play better to the missioneers they're trying to learn grifting from.

[sometimesy]

The statement could just be another weather balloon. First the People photos, then a statement, positive, positive. Good move actually, focus on the future, hint they are being supported with prayers and taking family counselling/professional help, and finally remind people of their adorable kids. 

[Marigold]

8 minutes ago, NewDigs said:

Boob's newer churchgoin' ways probably play better to the missioneers they're trying to learn grifting from.

I'm sure that is part of it.

And they need a church to film the girls getting married. And a minister.  Jim Bob realized he has a problem isolating himself like that so he got his hairspray head into a church and made nicey-nice with the ministers. After church, I bet he sits everyone down on the crazy sofas and then tells them everything the minister said that was wrong. They all nod in agreement.  

Whatever the motive, it's good for the kidults that they have a bit more access to rational people. 

 

Edit to add: Cross church has a group for Joshie! 

http://crosschurch.com/groups/celebrate-recovery/117/

Edited May 28, 2016 by Marigold

[JoanArc]

Quote

1. Going to a counsellor, even a Baptist minister, would mean the possibility that non-Gothard thoughts could be part of the sessions.

THIS. No credible counselor could take a look at the Duggar family system and wave it all off as benign. The outside world would creep in, the very stilted house of cards they live in would fall. They shocking idea that Josh needs to individuate from his parents is shocking to them.

Maybe they could throw Josh a J-Rod style 'living death' funeral, then never speak of him again. I'm ashamed to say I'd watch the hell out of that, TLC.

[Missy Vixen]

21 hours ago, auntieminem said:

Hmmm,  wonder what "professional means to them?  

Statement from Josh and Anna.  http://www.duggarfamily.com/2016/5/a-statement-from-josh-and-anna-duggar

I'd take it a lot more seriously if the word "licensed" appeared anywhere in that "statement".

[OpieTaylor]

1 hour ago, Marigold said:

Whatever the motive, it's good for the kidults that they have a bit more access to rational people. 

kidults!  I love it - perfect new word!

[Wellfleet]

21 hours ago, auntieminem said:

Hmmm,  wonder what "professional means to them?  

Statement from Josh and Anna.  http://www.duggarfamily.com/2016/5/a-statement-from-josh-and-anna-duggar

Excellent question. To the Duggars, it's probably as simple as meaning someone they've had to pay. Not necessarily trained, qualified and/or accredited for whatever the task at hand was. Just someone they had to pay.

[NewDigs]

26 minutes ago, Wellfleet said:

Excellent question. To the Duggars, it's probably as simple as meaning someone they've had to pay. Not necessarily trained, qualified and/or accredited for whatever the task at hand was. Just someone they had to pay.

PAY???

I think I just heard Boob's head explode.

[Absolom]

If Josh went to Celebrate Recovery, he might get a bit more help that he did from RU.  It's more mainstream thought. 

[Marigold]

I hope he is in a support group..considering that is the church they associate (film) most with...good possibility that he is in their group. 

[Ljohnson1987]

If Smugs and Anna are in legit marriage counseling, (Which I don't believe). It's probably J'Chelle and Boob telling Anna that she'd go to Hell if she left Smugs. Come on, people. These idiots don't believe in marriage counseling.

[DangerousMinds]

8 hours ago, allonsyalice said:

I'm actually not sure what they are trying to say at all.

I still can't get over the mention of the "long family weekend," as someone else already pointed out. Who are they kidding? They don't work so 3-day weekends do not apply to them at all.

4 hours ago, Marigold said:

I agree with Absolom. I think that Cross Church minister is involved somehow. 

Years back, Jim Bob was very isolated from any churches. They home churched. Period. I notice they are interacting with actual churches now.  There are a few photos of them at a church once in a while.  Girls got married in a local church. So, it is a possibility that a real live minister with some actual training is working with Josh and Anna. That would be good news for all of them. 

Have Josh and Anna ever even attended Cros Church?

[Arwen Evenstar]

7 hours ago, Marigold said:

I'm sure that is part of it.

And they need a church to film the girls getting married. And a minister.  Jim Bob realized he has a problem isolating himself like that so he got his hairspray head into a church and made nicey-nice with the ministers. After church, I bet he sits everyone down on the crazy sofas and then tells them everything the minister said that was wrong. They all nod in agreement.  

Whatever the motive, it's good for the kidults that they have a bit more access to rational people. 

 

Edit to add: Cross church has a group for Joshie! 

http://crosschurch.com/groups/celebrate-recovery/117/

Boob is not AFIK an ordained minister. He can't officiate a wedding, so he had to find a local minister.  Does anyone know why there's a Church of Boob in lieu of them going to an actual church, or is it all about Boob wanting to control his kids or does he think that he's the only one who "has it right"? 

Maybe because he's too cheap to tithe or give any money at all to any church, despite grifting for love offerings to feed his quivers? Anyone got any history on that,

Edited May 29, 2016 by Arwen Evenstar

[Absolom]

They gave up their home church last year claiming it was due to travel, but it oddly coincided with the first Josh revelations.

[cmr2014]

15 minutes ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

Maybe because he's too cheap to tithe or give any money at all to any church, despite grifting for love offerings to feed his quivers? Anyone got any history on that,

This has always been my belief. They were more than happy to live off of "love offerings" from the church for years, but when the TLC gravy train stopped at their door, God "laid it on" JB's heart to start his own church. His return to Cross Church at the same time that the show was cancelled may be just coincidence, but it doesn't look that way to me.

It's also possible that he has discovered the complete isolation is hindering the marriage prospects (and the TLC specials) for the older kids.

[Arwen Evenstar]

54 minutes ago, cmr2014 said:

This has always been my belief. They were more than happy to live off of "love offerings" from the church for years, but when the TLC gravy train stopped at their door, God "laid it on" JB's heart to start his own church. His return to Cross Church at the same time that the show was cancelled may be just coincidence, but it doesn't look that way to me.

It's also possible that he has discovered the complete isolation is hindering the marriage prospects (and the TLC specials) for the older kids.

Thanks for the background info, everyone.  CMR, you're possibly right about the isolation bit.  Half a dozen unmarried, uneducated adult kids still feasting at the Duggar teat. I guess when Boob and JChelle went on this mission to "have as many children as possible". I guess they never made the connection that kids had a cost associated with them...Boob's cheap head must be exploding since he's got all these weddings to pay for and soon the TLC gravy train is running out.  Isolation keeps his cheap ass from paying for weddings, but it also keeps the JSlaves at the trough.  Guess that's what happens, Boob, looks like your attempts to  control everyone and everything have come back to bite you in the ass!

Had you let your kids have an education and learn a real life skill to make a living, they'd be self sufficient and making and paying their own way.

Edited May 29, 2016 by Arwen Evenstar

[Micks Picks]

Boob still takes the kids on mission trips, which are costly and not all are paid by TLC.  A:LERT is quite expensive, and Journey to the heart is not cheap.  So there are things he will spend the big bucks on.

[poopchute]

How much could the weddings cost anyway?  Don't they not even serve food and have the "reception" in a parking lot?  

[GeeGolly]

Part of a therapist's job is to understand a client's beliefs and respect those beliefs while working with them. 

Any licensed clinician or educated counselor would never let their own personal bias enter the therapeutic relationship. Many clinicians may find they couldn't work with someone like the Duggars, but it is part of their professional duty to refer them to someone who can.

But I wonder, because the Duggars have such a hard time trusting non-Fundies in everyday life, how they would trust a non-Fundy professional therapist in such an intimate way.

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

 

Any licensed clinician or educated counselor would never let their own personal bias enter the therapeutic relationship. Many clinicians may find they couldn't work with someone like the Duggars, but it is part of their professional duty to refer them to someone who can.

 

Why do I picture them visiting about 200 therapists before they find one who's so hard of hearing that he or she doesn't figure out what their beliefs actually are?

Seriously, I'm sure they aren't going to any therapist based in the secular world or in any organization that requires formal education. I'm sure there are plenty of people around who counsel fundie and even "biblical patriarchy" people for a living, and since they do it for a living, they can claim that it's a "profession." We all know God don't require no stinking education or training. Not for electricians and not for therapists. (He and the Duggars seem to make an exception for emergency medicine, though. Wonder why that is? ha)

Edited May 29, 2016 by Churchhoney

[tenativelyyours]

What gets me about the posting that tells of the 'therapy' is how it is all we this and we that.  Yet when it actually mentions even in a remove the reasons for the need to work on their marriage not a single pronoun.  So careful to avoid the actual reason and making sure by using the whole "we" approach to the matter it manages to pull Anna in as if she shares a full half of the "blame".  Yet he never once identifies himself singly as the reason.  What a pig.  I bet Boob spent hours coming up with that crafted message.  I wonder how many of their female fans are wondering just what the hell Anna as the other half that "we" needs God's forgiveness in terms of this particular fall from grace?  I hope at least a few are getting a better grip on how things are playing out in bringing the family complete with Josh back to the land of celebrity.  Boob and Josh both I suspect are going to 'we' this in hopes enough people stop remembering it was all 'him'.

[Albanyguy]

13 hours ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

Boob is not AFIK an ordained minister. He can't officiate a wedding, so he had to find a local minister.  Does anyone know why there's a Church of Boob in lieu of them going to an actual church, or is it all about Boob wanting to control his kids or does he think that he's the only one who "has it right"? 

Maybe because he's too cheap to tithe or give any money at all to any church, despite grifting for love offerings to feed his quivers? Anyone got any history on that,

I think you nailed it; it's a combination of both cheapness and an inability to give up control to anyone for any reason.

Anyone can go online and become an ordained minister, legally empowered to perform weddings, for a very modest fee. My cousin got married last year and the groom's best friend/college roommate got himself ordained so he could perform the ceremony. Some of the relatives were upset at the idea of someone who wasn't a "real" minister officiating, but he did a great job; by the time he was through, there wasn't a dry eye in the house.  I wonder why Jim Bob didn't go that route so that he could officiate at the weddings of Josh, Jill and Jessa? You'd think that would be right up his alley. He could be the star of the show, stealing all the attention away from the bride and groom, and have a captive audience to listen to him bloviate about his ideas on marriage.

[Arwen Evenstar]

22 hours ago, zoomama said:

without getting too preachy here, God does forgive if we repent and ask for forgiveness. God did not tell someone to let the cat out of the bag -- He does not control us like puppets. He gives us each free will to make good and bad decisions. then, when we realize we were wrong AND seek forgiveness ALONG WITH changing our bad behavior, God then blesses us with His forgiveness.  the point is to change and not keep doing the wrong behaviors.

that is what my faith and Bible study tell me.

Agree with you.  Only God really knows if Smuggar is truly remorseful for what he's done, or if he's only feeling shame for getting caught. Both scandals came out with a very public backlash. I don't know about anyone else, but had I been faced with a sex scandal of any kind, I'd be embarrassed to show my face anywhere I might be recognized and I was brought up that sex is nothing at all to be ashamed of...so I can only imagine how the Smuggs must feel. Granted, playing doctor with your sisters (trying to be polite) when you're 14 and having sex with hookers and porn stars is a bit more scandalous than what most people would do.

Many marriages have survived infidelity, so with 4 kids and neither one could survive on their own and limited income, they know at least for now, things aren't well since all Josh succeeded in doing was put some distance between them, and now it's time to face the music

Dear Smuggar,

I'm sure you know that many people think you're a lying, hypocritical dirtbag, who should thank your lucky stars that your wife even wants to try to give you a second chance. Now that I've got that out of the way, you're in for a lot of work if you want to prove yourself worthy of her.

1. RU was not treatment, really.  You were sent there to keep Anna from running away or making any hasty decisions. Boob was hoping putting time and distance between the two of you so she could cool off. You need not only REAL couples counseling, but also REAL one on one counseling to deal with individual issues.
2. RU didn't prepare you to face Anna. Her heart is broken.  You took something beautiful and you destroyed it with your entitled, selfish, Smuggarly ways. Own it and fix it.
3. Get up off your loathsome, spotty behind and help your wife with the house and the kiddos. No matter what Gothard says, leadership does NOT equate to lordship.  Instead of carrying her across the threshold on your wedding night, you made her schlep your luggage. You want to turn your wife on? A man helping his wife with the house, kids, and cooking is all the porn she'll ever need!
4. Headship is not a given.  Authority always comes with responsibility, and your responsibility is to "love your wife as Christ loves the church".  That's a tall order in itself and it means SACRIFICIAL love (as in putting her needs ahead of your Smuggarly ways). Wifely submission is supposed to mean that she knows you will always do what is best for her and the family because you have come to decisions after much contemplation and prayer, not because you said so and she must abide.
5. Man up! You're not a man by virtue of what God put between your legs, you're a man by what you DO. Headship means nothing if you can't back it up by being a decent and godly man, husband, and father. A man who's "the man" doesn't have to act like a smug asshat to prove it...he shows by his actions that he does what is just and fair and right and people know that he's "the man" and wish to emulate him as a living example.
6. Not getting enough? That's not all Anna's fault! Do you really expect a wife who runs around after 4 kids under the age of six, homeschooling them, and doing everything else, might just be too worn out to cheerfully put out?  I LOVE sex, but when I'm that tired, not in the mood.  Lighten her load so she can have enough energy left to give you some quality time. 
7. Love porn? Clearly, we understand your lack of a meaningful sex education and repressed upbringing has fed your hunger for porn. We get it...had Daddy bought you a Playboy and let you pull your pud now and again, maybe you wouldn't be the way you are.  Porn debases women and teaches men that women like this.  It is NOT sex education because it doesn't teach intimacy and respect. Anna deserves to receive sexual pleasure as well; its not all about YOU. A man who knows how to please his wife should have no need to go elsewhere or look at porn. Figure out what makes her tick and do it!
8. Lastly, wipe that smug look off your face and realize you now have no right to judge anyone else. Most of us heathens got thru life without groping siblings, cheating on their spouse, and paying for sex. You're only forgiven if you're really sorry for what you did.
9. You're not "all that", so get over yourself. You're not a hottie, you're unemployable, but worst of all you're smug.  You are totally not a catch, at least not the way you are right now.
10. You can still redeem yourself, provided you remain humble and decent and treat Anna like the queen she is. Until you can do that, no matter who's watching or not or whether the cameras a rerolling or not, you'll never come close to deserving her.

Ok...rant over..

[sometimesy]

Maybe they are working with a real professional that joined the fundy world after years as a mainstream professional. Who knows, but they have improved in their public statements. Focus on the family as a whole, who is going to snark on Anna and the 'sweet children'? So PR? Research? Adapting? 

Arwen Evenstar, that advice is probably great for a man that really loves a woman, feels remorse (not regret at being caught), and doesn't live in the patriarchal world. Josh may be able to fake some of that for a while, but how long will he stay on the cross without some profit (fame, money). Add to that, the challenge of having someone like whimpering Anna on his junk to get another blessing, then add dealing with  'thinkpol'.  Right now, it's probably something of a 'honeymoon' phase and they have some ideas and hope for the future. If the redemption tour fails.... 

[Almost 3000]

@Arwen Evenstar you should post that on one (or more) of the Duggar sites. Perfection.

[Missy Vixen]

17 hours ago, cmr2014 said:

 

It's also possible that he has discovered the complete isolation is hindering the marriage prospects (and the TLC specials) for the older kids.

I don't think it's the marriage prospects so much as it is the financial ones. Jim Boob can grift and grift from congregations all over the country as the Duggars tell their story of "persecution" by those who are "led by Satan" to oppose their TeeVee program and its sponsors. 

They didn't end the home church due to "traveling". I'm willing to bet that they ended the home church due to the fact that it was a matter of time before those who attended started talking about the things discussed there. I would also be curious to know if those in the home church were nervous about finding themselves the subject of inquiry re: Joshley Madison and his little problems, which I can guarantee was a topic of discussion.

[Missy Vixen]

6 hours ago, tenativelyyours said:

So careful to avoid the actual reason and making sure by using the whole "we" approach to the matter it manages to pull Anna in as if she shares a full half of the "blame".  Yet he never once identifies himself singly as the reason.  What a pig.  I bet Boob spent hours coming up with that crafted message. 

Another thought: Jim Boob is also ensuring that he's painting Anna with the same brush. This has a dual purpose. 

1. "What did ANNA do to make him cheat? Maybe she isn't a very good wife!"

2. If Anna ever wakes up some morning, decides she's had enough and hits the road, he's already poisoned public sentiment toward her and it will be easier for Joshley Madison to get custody...

Of course, my opinion.

[Churchhoney]

9 minutes ago, Missy Vixen said:

Another thought: Jim Boob is also ensuring that he's painting Anna with the same brush. This has a dual purpose. 

1. "What did ANNA do to make him cheat? Maybe she isn't a very good wife!"

2. If Anna ever wakes up some morning, decides she's had enough and hits the road, he's already poisoned public sentiment toward her and it will be easier for Joshley Madison to get custody...

Of course, my opinion.

Well, I wouldn't put this -- or much of anything -- past Boob. So who knows? But if he did it, I'm thinking he didn't inform Joshley.

Just imagine the look on Smugs' face on the day he wakes up having full and sole custody of the four (five....six...seven...) M-children. (Although it might not be as bad as he'd fear. After all, what are Jana and the Lost Girls for?)

Edited May 29, 2016 by Churchhoney

[Missy Vixen]

1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

Just imagine the look on Smugs' face on the day he wakes up having full and sole custody of the four (five....six...seven...) M-children. (Although it might not be as bad as he'd fear. After all, what are Jana and the Lost Girls for?)

Joshley woudn't be tasked with taking care of those kids as you said. They'd be absorbed into the TTH and brought out for photo ops (or further filming). Jim Boob, the Duggars' publicist and the typical unnamed sources would be more than happy to sling the "dirt" (real or made-up) on Anna if the end game was another reality show featuring JM as the doting single dad. I believe this statement is the first public volley to Anna re: "Stay in line or else."

I know I am terminally cynical, but there is no level too low for Joshley and his parents to stoop to for money and fame.

[lookeyloo]

3 hours ago, Missy Vixen said:

Another thought: Jim Boob is also ensuring that he's painting Anna with the same brush. This has a dual purpose. 

1. "What did ANNA do to make him cheat? Maybe she isn't a very good wife!"

2. If Anna ever wakes up some morning, decides she's had enough and hits the road, he's already poisoned public sentiment toward her and it will be easier for Joshley Madison to get custody...

Of course, my opinion.

I may have mentioned this before, but when the first Mr. lookeyloo left me, I was, I thought, a good wife, but my very own father said to me "You must not have been a good enough wife"  And we are about as far as one can get from the Duggar philosophy.  The current Mr. lookeyloo thinks I am a pretty darn good wife!!! 

[Arwen Evenstar]

6 hours ago, sometimesy said:

Maybe they are working with a real professional that joined the fundy world after years as a mainstream professional. Who knows, but they have improved in their public statements. Focus on the family as a whole, who is going to snark on Anna and the 'sweet children'? So PR? Research? Adapting? 

Arwen Evenstar, that advice is probably great for a man that really loves a woman, feels remorse (not regret at being caught), and doesn't live in the patriarchal world. Josh may be able to fake some of that for a while, but how long will he stay on the cross without some profit (fame, money). Add to that, the challenge of having someone like whimpering Anna on his junk to get another blessing, then add dealing with  'thinkpol'.  Right now, it's probably something of a 'honeymoon' phase and they have some ideas and hope for the future. If the redemption tour fails.... 

Sometimesy, you make a good point.  Anything that I would say here wouldn't even be well received by Boob or Smuggar. It might not fly in the patriarchal world, but if Josh truly loved Anna and felt remorse for his actions, he'd do everything on that list and more.  Patriarchy isn't godly if it's used as a cudgel to abuse wives and children, so I'm not sure why they can't see how messed up these ideas are.  

And, if he really didn't want any more children, he'd put his foot down and be honest and lovingly and respectfully tell Anna to hold off on having more kids for the time being or tell her he wants a vasectomy because living in a trailer, wearing someone else's shoes and grifting for food isn't really his cup of tea. She was brought up in the super breeder mindset and her MIL is an outlier on the fecundity spectrum as well, so she truly believes that having babies makes her godly. She and Josh should just enjoy lovemaking without the pressure of having babies, but I realize the conditioning to be mega breeders runs very deep.

[Sew Sumi]

I think the only reason Anna "enjoys" whatever sex Smuggar gives her is that it can lead to babies. Smuggar is too selfish of an asshole to even bother with learning about female orgasm. Remember, that book that accompanies Dr. Wheat's Gothard Sex tapes does not even include a clitoris. I think if any of these women have ever experienced real pleasure, it was totally by mistake. But given that these guys are probably all three minute eggs, I'm just not seeing it. 

Especially when Anna is concerned. 

[kaleidoscope]

New article on Josh and his treatment of Anna:

http://www.designntrend.com/articles/77083/20160528/19-kids-counting-josh-duggar-changed-rehab-aggressive-bossy-anna.htm

’19 Kids And Counting’ Josh Duggar Hasn’t Changed Since Rehab, ‘Aggressive’ And Bossy With Anna

[Sew Sumi]

They pretty much plagiarized The Hollywood Gossip's article from a few days ago. We've already seen those "insider" quotes and even speculated about who the "gusher"  (a word this article left out in terms of the informant) was. 

Also, the part about the FRC is inaccurate. Smuggar left them right after Joshgate I. This article implies that the FRC held out until Joshgate II. So yeah, take this entire article with a huge grain of salt. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

5 hours ago, kaleidoscope said:

New article on Josh and his treatment of Anna:

http://www.designntrend.com/articles/77083/20160528/19-kids-counting-josh-duggar-changed-rehab-aggressive-bossy-anna.htm

’19 Kids And Counting’ Josh Duggar Hasn’t Changed Since Rehab, ‘Aggressive’ And Bossy With Anna

Ugh! A full facial shot of The Smug and Oily One himself.  He really is greasy and slimy.

Edited May 30, 2016 by Arwen Evenstar
Typos

[Sew Sumi]

Yeah, that was one of his FRC "business" trips (LA, or GA, IIRC). Wanna bet he had a hooker lined up at the hotel after his wholesome duties were done for the evening? 

[Arwen Evenstar]

12 hours ago, Almost 3000 said:

@Arwen Evenstar you should post that on one (or more) of the Duggar sites. Perfection.

@Almost 3000, thank you for the kind words. I'm certain to be blocked if I even attempted to post on one of the Duggar pages, even though Smuggs needs a telling off . That is unless you meant FJ or Pickles and Hairspray.  :)

[Sew Sumi]

Pickles would also delete it, because she's a bitter old hag who doesn't like people upstaging her with better smacktalk. 

Yes, I'm a member of her banned list. :D

[Churchhoney]

12 hours ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

Sometimesy, you make a good point.  Anything that I would say here wouldn't even be well received by Boob or Smuggar. It might not fly in the patriarchal world, but if Josh truly loved Anna and felt remorse for his actions, he'd do everything on that list and more.  Patriarchy isn't godly if it's used as a cudgel to abuse wives and children, so I'm not sure why they can't see how messed up these ideas are.  

And, if he really didn't want any more children, he'd put his foot down and be honest and lovingly and respectfully tell Anna to hold off on having more kids for the time being or tell her he wants a vasectomy because living in a trailer, wearing someone else's shoes and grifting for food isn't really his cup of tea. She was brought up in the super breeder mindset and her MIL is an outlier on the fecundity spectrum as well, so she truly believes that having babies makes her godly. She and Josh should just enjoy lovemaking without the pressure of having babies, but I realize the conditioning to be mega breeders runs very deep.

What I wonder is why some of these things are true. For example, the not wanting more children thing. Seems clear that, in some ways, he really doesn't want more children, that he sees that the demands on attention and money and so on are too high for comfort. He watched his family have all those kids and he surely saw the difficulties. And it seems that, in some ways anyway, he was fond of his own kids and may not have wanted to have so many more that he couldn't pay attention to any of them.

But then, as you say, he doesn't seem able to say that to Anna straight out. So why the hell not? Is he so stupid and brainwashed that he actually believes the Gothard crap about a requirement to have gazillions of kids and fears the wrath of God if he doesn't produce them? Does he feel so distant from Anna and so uncomfortable with her that he can't ever tell her a truth she'll have a problem with because he's sure that they couldn't work something out? Is he so scared of losing Jizm Bob's favor and cash that he'll completely suppress what he knows he wants so that he doesn't rock the Duggar boat and lose his livelihood? Or what? To me, it's just nuts for somebody in this era to potentially allow themselves to go on and on having kids into the double digits when they don't really want to. So why is he likely to do it?

[MunichNark]

6 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Pickles would also delete it, because she's a bitter old hag who doesn't like people upstaging her with better smacktalk. 

Yes, I'm a member of her banned list. :D

Same here. I'm tempeted to post them with my alternative Profile though.....absolute perfection.

 

I also wonder why he just doesn't tell Anna he's done. He so clearly didn't want kid no 3 and 4, so why not TELL?

I think it's probably a mixture of losing face (because this would place him into the "danger" category), not being really close to Anna, perhaps fear of his father and the public backlash of those few Dughugs left

[Fuzzysox]

10 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Yeah, that was one of his FRC "business" trips (LA, or GA, IIRC). Wanna bet he had a hooker lined up at the hotel after his wholesome duties were done for the evening? 

But, but, but Boob Jr was ministering not cheating.

[OpieTaylor]

4 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

He watched his family have all those kids and he surely saw the difficulties. And it seems that, in some ways anyway, he was fond of his own kids and may not have wanted to have so many more that he couldn't pay attention to any of them.

As Boob and MEchelle's first kid, I wonder if Josh felt especially hurt and damaged by the 18 more kids to come. He knew what it was like to be part of an average size family, what it was like to have his parents' sufficient attention, etc. 

[BitterApple]

10 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Pickles would also delete it, because she's a bitter old hag who doesn't like people upstaging her with better smacktalk. 

Yes, I'm a member of her banned list. :D

You can come sit next to me, I'm banned as well. 

Although I take gossip site articles with a grain of salt, I wouldn't be surprised if Josh's demeanor has changed since rehab. He went from a six-figure creampuff job in D.C. to being back under Boob's thumb at the TTH. His father hates him, I can't imagine his siblings want much to do with him and he's a pariah in his social circles. He's like the Tyrion Lannister of Tontitown, minus the drinking of course.

[queenanne]

Yeah I can't imagine his siblings welcoming him back joyously, or feeling good and happy about looking at him.  They probably don't wish bad things upon him, but that's not a ringing endorsement.  I'd have to fight back grimaces and cringes.

[Marigold]

Aside from being a perv,

I think josh is caught between what it expected of him and what he wants for himself.  He is so entangled with his religious beliefs, family and culture, it's a tough way out. Plus, he has four kids to walk away from and he probably does love Anna. But this lifestyle is not what he wants. He created an entire alternate life for himself with porn and prostitues and who knows what else?????

Someone with more knowledge could take this further but it's like Josh is fragmented into pieces. 

[Missy Vixen]

6 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

To me, it's just nuts for somebody in this era to potentially allow themselves to go on and on having kids into the double digits when they don't really want to. So why is he likely to do it?

I find it fascinating that Joshley Madison has upheld that part of his marriage vows ("having as many children as God sends us") but seems to think the rest of the marriage vows are optional.

One has to marvel at his thought processes or lack of them.

[sometimesy]

44 minutes ago, Marigold said:

Aside from being a perv,

I think josh is caught between what it expected of him and what he wants for himself.  He is so entangled with his religious beliefs, family and culture, it's a tough way out. Plus, he has four kids to walk away from and he probably does love Anna. But this lifestyle is not what he wants. He created an entire alternate life for himself with porn and prostitues and who knows what else?????

Someone with more knowledge could take this further but it's like Josh is fragmented into pieces. 

Yep, Josh has proven that he is caught between his world and his fathers. What a sad state. He does seem to love his kids, now if only he would walk away for their sake.

Re the bolded: I don't know. Remember Bin's rant about not requiring compatibility, the cult couple's habit of over the top public posturing about how they are all in love, stupid weird pecks at each other, adoring glances and flowery posts. Josh may be required to be in love. I think he is square pegging a round hole. Josh may be familiar with Anna and in love with his children, but they don't seem like a great couple to me.  I don't think burying him in this world is an effective control. They have tightened the very restraints he fought against. No wonder he's rumoured to be snarly. 

Josh holds all the cards. His wife will probably follow him no matter what he does, he has the most information about his family to sell and he is already hit bottom. There is nothing left of Josh to expose (my guess), JB on the other hand probably has a lot of secrets. Too bad Anna won't let him go online. haha. 

[Marigold]

yeah, i can agree with that.  They did seem to have a decent chemistry on camera but maybe that is just regular love and affection for Anna, not IN LOVE with Anna...like passionately in love with a woman who is your soulmate. I don't think Josh and Anna ever had that and never will. 

Good point..Ben rambling about being compatable. Like he is getting a puppy not a soulmate.  Bizarre thinking of a newly married 20 year old young man. I guess that is how it goes for Ben and I guess Josh too?  Anna was "a good fit, a nice Fundy girl and why the heck not!!"

[cmr2014]

7 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

What I wonder is why some of these things are true. For example, the not wanting more children thing. Seems clear that, in some ways, he really doesn't want more children, that he sees that the demands on attention and money and so on are too high for comfort. He watched his family have all those kids and he surely saw the difficulties. And it seems that, in some ways anyway, he was fond of his own kids and may not have wanted to have so many more that he couldn't pay attention to any of them.

But then, as you say, he doesn't seem able to say that to Anna straight out. So why the hell not? Is he so stupid and brainwashed that he actually believes the Gothard crap about a requirement to have gazillions of kids and fears the wrath of God if he doesn't produce them? Does he feel so distant from Anna and so uncomfortable with her that he can't ever tell her a truth she'll have a problem with because he's sure that they couldn't work something out? Is he so scared of losing Jizm Bob's favor and cash that he'll completely suppress what he knows he wants so that he doesn't rock the Duggar boat and lose his livelihood? Or what? To me, it's just nuts for somebody in this era to potentially allow themselves to go on and on having kids into the double digits when they don't really want to. So why is he likely to do it?

I think that Josh had a very small pool to pick from: she would have to be a Gothard girl, and one whose parents were okay with her marrying a known child molester  -- Josh's "sins" were apparently well known in the community. I think he really had a choice between unmarried Keller daughters.

That being said, I do think that it's possible for people in arranged marriages to grow to love one another, and I think that Josh and Anna were beginning to develop their own relationship when they were in DC. There was a lot of talk on the boards about how they seem to be waiting to have another child, and how they seemed to have developed some private level of communication -- like most married couples.

Then, they took a trip to Illinois to visit David and Priscilla, and suddenly Anna was back on the baby train which (I think) destroyed their growing intimacy. Then, of course, all the Josh scandals put the final nail in the coffin.

That's part of the problem with this cult. There can be no real initmacy because anything that is shared that doesn't fit in the Gothard mold must be shared with other cult members. Part of their "love" for one another involves tattling to other cult members so that the offender can be "counseled" and returned to the fold. And, of course, if one of Josh's issues is not wanting a super-sized family, that's a much bigger problem than it would probably seem to most of us. That's the number one tenant of their religious beliefs, and is so important that it was included in their marriage vows. Even if he told his wife, or his parents, or his siblings that he didn't want a huge family, it wouldn't matter. God chooses the size of your family -- end of story. If you aren't okay with that, then you need more counseling.

All sins are the same in their world, so all of Josh's sins are equal -- not wanting to be under his father's "headship" for life, not wanting a huge family, cheating on his wife, and watching pornography are all sins, and all equally bad.