Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[kokapetl]

I don't think they allow AM radios, let alone tv at RU.

Josh is gonna get out of churchy prison and the world will seem weird and strange to him.

[Cherrio]

I don't think they allow AM radios, let alone tv at RU.

Josh is gonna get out of churchy prison and the world will seem weird and strange to him.

I have watched 3 of the R.U. sermons, listened to their insane nonsense and I know Josh will come out with not only his original problems intact, but will have picked up a few more bad habits or addictions.     

[Jenilane6]

The M's and their shoes, baby with cowboy boots and McKynzie wearing UGG Bailey Bling I Do boots, $205.

[kokapetl]

I have watched 3 of the R.U. sermons, listened to their insane nonsense and I know Josh will come out with not only his original problems intact, but will have picked up a few more bad habits or addictions.

Like holding clip on microphones as though they were just tiny handheld microphones. Drives me nuts.

[zenme]

The M's and their shoes, baby with cowboy boots and McKynzie wearing UGG Bailey Bling I Do boots, $205

 

What a waste of money.  I hope those were from Once Upon a Child, or purchased from her friend that does garage sales for people.  If she was North West--or even Snooki's kid, I wouldn't think twice, but I'm having a hard time figuring out why they would spend so much money for shoes that Mack will grow out of in a couple of months.  I guess after what Josh did Anna can buy whatever she wants and he's just going to have to shut up about it.

[kokapetl]

Anna might be able to buy this bankrupt jailbird Italian stereotype's baby's shoes for cheap.

[cmr2014]

I think that the life that the Duggars have planned for Josh when he gets out of Jesus jail is going to be every bit as awful as the "rehab."

 

While they may have "sold" their house to the trust to secure it from an eventual lawsuit, it also effectively removes it from Josh's control.

 

I think that the plan it to keep Josh on a very short leash. JB and J'chelle will provide them with housing and food -- I imagine Anna will be included in the regular Aldi run. There will be no "extras" like cable TV or internet service at the house. JB will provide him with a vehicle to get to whatever job JB chooses for him, and there will be an "accountability partner" dogging him 24/7. I doubt he will ever have a single dollar of his own to spend.

 

I think that Josh is probably very acutely aware of what awaits him in Arkansas. I could easily see him using his limited phone privileges looking for a job rather than making nice with Anna.

[NewDigs]

Or he just lapses. Again.

Rehab is probably better than goin' home, at this point.

[Churchhoney]

I think that the life that the Duggars have planned for Josh when he gets out of Jesus jail is going to be every bit as awful as the "rehab."

 

While they may have "sold" their house to the trust to secure it from an eventual lawsuit, it also effectively removes it from Josh's control.

 

I think that the plan it to keep Josh on a very short leash. JB and J'chelle will provide them with housing and food -- I imagine Anna will be included in the regular Aldi run. There will be no "extras" like cable TV or internet service at the house. JB will provide him with a vehicle to get to whatever job JB chooses for him, and there will be an "accountability partner" dogging him 24/7. I doubt he will ever have a single dollar of his own to spend.

 

I think that Josh is probably very acutely aware of what awaits him in Arkansas. I could easily see him using his limited phone privileges looking for a job rather than making nice with Anna.

 

Maybe they can make him wear a little striped prison jumpsuit like Baby Seewald's. Actually, maybe they can start requiring all the kids and grandkids to wear those. Jana's been dressing kind of uppity lately. Being confined to black and white striped maxidresses might protect against any ideas she might be getting, too.

[JoanArc]

Don't forget the flip-non internet phone. Maybe.

[Arwen Evenstar]

OMG....I've so enjoyed and laughed over so many postings....still laughing about the pposter who referred to Anna as Goody Smuggar...after reading The Crucible in high school me and my classmate referred to each other as Goody Xxxxxx and giggled about it.

Of course you know The Crucible would never be on SOTDRT reading list.

Laughed at the prison uniform on poor Baby Seewald...pretty much what that poor kid has been born into! I'm thinking that could be their family outfit for their next conference.

[farmgal4]

Anna might be able to buy this bankrupt jailbird Italian stereotype's baby's shoes for cheap.

Look at the shoe on that baby's right foot, and tell me those aren't high heels?!?!

[Arwen Evenstar]

Just had a thought...are prison stripes defrauding?

[zenme]

Yes. Those are high heels.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

 

I think that Josh is probably very acutely aware of what awaits him in Arkansas. I could easily see him using his limited phone privileges looking for a job rather than making nice with Anna.

Hopefully he's using them to call around about getting a book deal to spill all the Duggar secrets and a divorce attorney so he can free Anna from being "responsible" when he decides to cheat on her again.

[queenanne]

Look at the shoe on that baby's right foot, and tell me those aren't high heels?!?!

 

Yes.  They sell them for babies.  I think the purchasers are nutbars, but it's a whole "thing" in existence.  IIRC Katie Holmes used to always get criticized because Suri wore heels everywhere (and may still).

[GeeGolly]

Yes.  They sell them for babies.  I think the purchasers are nutbars, but it's a whole "thing" in existence.  IIRC Katie Holmes used to always get criticized because Suri wore heels everywhere (and may still).

Kids aren't life-sized Barbie Dolls. Meredith with her boots, Bam Bam with his 5 outfits in 36 hours ... really? 

[Churchhoney]

Kids aren't life-sized Barbie Dolls.

 

They are if you have no respect for human individuality and are desperate to exercise you own power, though. And since the Duggar kids were raised by people who completely ignored their individuality and were clearly on big fat power trips, I expect one unfortunate consequence is that they're now itching to do the same to their own kids. All without realizing any of this or having any idea that it's a problem, of course. Sad. (And Anna was raised similarly, under the Gothard regime.)

Edited November 8, 2015 by Churchhoney

[BitterApple]

You know what's kind of sad, is Smuggar seemed like he may have wanted a different path for his children. On the one epi where Mikey and Mack were taking piano lessons he mentioned them going on to become professional musicians, *gasp* even his female child. I think if they'd been able to stay in D.C., life would have turned out very differently for the Mkids.

[Wellfleet]

No, seriously. What do these people have against getting a real job?

For people who brag so much about 'buy used and save the difference' coupled with refusal to get their lazy arses gainfully employed, they sure live an expensive lifestyle, including so many trips and constant dining at restaurants.

Cumulative IQ for the bunch in this pic? I'd give it about a 480.

Ok.. I'm being kind with that estimate.

 

Yes, I think you are - seriously. 

[Muffyn]

His rod and staff will comfort him .

His cup runneth over (with used, sticky kleenex). 

 

I often admire the Brits' way with words. In the Daily Fail article about MEchelle calling 911 when Jessa had post-birth complications, they summed up Josh quite neatly in this para (my bolding):

 

 

"Sex Pest." I love it. I can see the argument that it might be viewed as trivializing his molesting little girls, but I still enjoyed seeing him put in his place, and not being mentioned without reference to his history.

The only addition I would like is sly sex pest, becuase we know how charmingly sly Josh was about molesting his sisters.  Oh that sly boots! 

 

I have watched 3 of the R.U. sermons, listened to their insane nonsense and I know Josh will come out with not only his original problems intact, but will have picked up a few more bad habits or addictions.     

He will also learn how to use the most circular reasoning ever in his speech.  And of course to bring everything back to dog vomit.  Brother Johnny loves his dog vomit.   

 

This week the RU program only included Cisco speaking to the online posters.  There was no audience.  There was a party they were all attending.  I'm sure it was a party so painfully uncomfortable it made a Duggar event look almost bearable.  

[farmgal4]

Yes.  They sell them for babies.  I think the purchasers are nutbars, but it's a whole "thing" in existence.  IIRC Katie Holmes used to always get criticized because Suri wore heels everywhere (and may still).

Now I have truly heard/seen it all. People have lost their freaking minds. Seriously.

[queenanne]

Now I have truly heard/seen it all. People have lost their freaking minds. Seriously.

 

I know.  First they start piercing the babies' ears - which I can kind of understand, because they're going to be more tractable and easier to keep clean than leaving it up to your teen - 'cuz it's oh so cuteeeeeee", and the next thing you know, they're okaying high heels.  I have this completely unqualified but gut-level medical opinion that people shouldn't be forcibly stretching babies' hamstrings and let them do whatever comes naturally like wild animals, but maybe that's just me (lol).

 

ETA to add:

 

You know what's kind of sad, is Smuggar seemed like he may have wanted a different path for his children. On the one epi where Mikey and Mack were taking piano lessons he mentioned them going on to become professional musicians, *gasp* even his female child. I think if they'd been able to stay in D.C., life would have turned out very differently for the Mkids.

 

OK... now that's kinda nice, and I can't think 100% badly of him of now.  Clearly he wishes that someone had given him continual persistent instruction in something cultural, and wants to do better by the kids.

Edited November 8, 2015 by queenanne

[Arwen Evenstar]

Can't imagine what a nightmare it must be to be stuck inside RU

[Arwen Evenstar]

I'm sure right now Smuggs is weighing hs options wondering what's worse...being in Jeebus Jail or being back inside the walls of the TTH with Boob and his crazy eyed birth mother?

[Churchhoney]

I'm sure right now Smuggs is weighing hs options wondering what's worse...being in Jeebus Jail or being back inside the walls of the TTH with Boob and his crazy eyed birth mother?

 

And maybe the worst thing about it is that a grown man probably does see these as his only two options.

[Marigold]

I do agree. Josh is probably one of the few Duggar kids who really did want to get out.

They moved to DC and he tried to get a "real" job. They went to a city. We certainly know Josh explored other women and had sexual escapades. (being polite). heck, he even watched movies! They were porn but at least he got away from Kirk Cameron.

All his recent actions scream "let me outta here".

It's a shame because Josh could've had a decent marriage with Anna and the kids. They could've been regular Christians and been OK. But that strangling fanatical lifestyle...it probably ruined him and now look at the mess.

[lookeyloo]

What is keeping Josh in confinement?  He is of age.  He can leave and look for a job on the outside.  He could find somebody to give him a job, probably behind the scenes of some place.  Then he can tell Anna - here I am - and she might say "well you are not religious enough for me, so buh bye", or, she can say "okay, let's start over".  Of course not happening, but, he is an adult.  I guess JB holds all kinds of strings and $$. And we know his "treatment" isn't fixing anything.  

[Marigold]

I think Josh really does want to get well and put his fractured life back together. I believe Josh knows what he did was wrong and that normal people don't do the stuff he did. Including the molestation and the cheating, porn mess.

Unfortunately, he has no clue that this "pray it away" place isn't going to work like he hopes.

Josh has his feet in both worlds. He is obviously worldly and knows a lot of things. (eye roll) But then, on the other hand, he most likely has no clue about mental health, therapy, rehab or anything of the sort. This where his poor education and lack of exposute to people shows up.

He is an odd person.

[kokapetl]

Given the amount of "Josh is worse than Hitler" opinions I've read online, it will be an uphill battle. Josh can't get a real job, he's a pariah, and him and Anna being together 24/7 will break one of them sooner or later.

[Arwen Evenstar]

Yes...totally agree with the poster who had said that if Smuggs had been raised with a more reasonable religious upbringing, he may not have the problems he now faces and he and Anna could have had a more normal life. But in Duggarland EVERYTHING is such a BFD and anything remotely resembling normalcy is immediately condemed as sinful.

Any desire to participate in a normal life is seen as apostasy and earns the child a trip to the prayer closet or off to Gothard HQ...for more shame and blame.

When his adultery scandal broke, Boob and Googly Eyes said they hoped his stint in rehab "would break him of his ways"....he was broken long before Jeebus jail...

Like many posters I'm wondering why he just doesn't walk out of RU...and the poster who used the word pariah to describe him was dead nuts on...Leaving Duggarland has to be hard enough for any of them but to know he's now a pariah...both in his own circles and the outside world...is probably why he's using RU as a place to hide from facing Anna and the wrath of Boob.

He's not the first guy to cheat on his wife...but most of the time that happens it doesn't make the news and comedic monologues on late night...Anna deserves so much better than what she ended up with...I can't imagine how humiliated she must have felt.

[Fuzzysox]

Can Josh be taking after his paternal grandfather? Didn't/doesn't Boob hate his dad? Didn't his dad have issues like drinking? I don't remember but genes are strong we can't escape them.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Fuzzysox

[queenanne]

I do agree. Josh is probably one of the few Duggar kids who really did want to get out.

They moved to DC and he tried to get a "real" job. They went to a city. We certainly know Josh explored other women and had sexual escapades. (being polite). heck, he even watched movies! They were porn but at least he got away from Kirk Cameron.

 

I'm LOLing over here for real...

 

 

Can Josh be taking after his paternal grandfather? Didn't/doesn't Boob hate his dad? Didn'this dad have issues like drinking? I don't remember but genes are strong we can't escape them.

 

Can't swear to it, but it would be sensible.  With the exception of some unusual changeling types, biology is destiny.  It'd be surprising if there weren't some family rebel in the history.  Usually the longer conversations go, the more people in the family pop up to say, "Oh wait... I remember now.  Didn't Aunt Edith have an eating disorder?  I remember her doing such and such, which I haven't thought about in years, now that you mention it..."

[tabloidlover]

Question for those that watched this show while it was on the air - Did Josh truly love Anna?  Or was it more of JB set it up, and if he marries her he gets non-stop sex, so sign me up!!? 

[lookeyloo]

Question for those that watched this show while it was on the air - Did Josh truly love Anna?  Or was it more of JB set it up, and if he marries her he gets non-stop sex, so sign me up!!? 

Oh Gee, that is a hard one!  I am a hopeless romantic, so I think I read into it that he was smitten.  She looked smitten too.  They did that "hand sex" on camera all the time.  I'm thinking there was at least a strong attraction.  Which we all know doesn't build a marriage.  I went through that with ex-husband.  High attraction.  Not much else.  

[kokapetl]

Question for those that watched this show while it was on the air - Did Josh truly love Anna? Or was it more of JB set it up, and if he marries her he gets non-stop sex, so sign me up!!?

I think Josh chose Anna, but JimBob had applied a ton of pressure on Josh to leave and cleave, because in the aftermath of Oprah emailing the cops, CPS were on the family's case and had made an adverse ruling regarding Josh, Grandma had purchased the mould house around the time Josh was appealing that ruling, I don't think he was allowed to live with his victims. Josh never seemed to be as "in love" or considerate as Anna was to him. Edited November 10, 2015 by Kokapetl

[Tabbygirl521]

I think Josh probably believed he loved Anna, whether he did or not. The apparent attraction between them, combined with mommy and Daddy pushing marriage, probably seemed like God telling him that she was The One (given their belief system and obsession with marriage and reproduction).

This whole mess might possibly have been avoided had Josh and Anna ever been allowed to have private conversations, or been allowed to go out experiencing the world together. Maybe, just maybe, Josh's "perfect son" mask might have slipped and Anna could have grabbed a clue as to his real nature. Or at least he might have had a chance to realize that he wanted something different out of life. But no, those poor kids can never take one single step out of harness. Which is particularly infuriating since JB and Michelle had plenty of freedom as teens.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Tabbygirl521

[Aja]

To be honest, Josh and Anna's entire hand-sex courtship felt like a TLC plot point to me. Anna wore the patented Michelle Duggar I'm-numb-to-everything-but-Jesus Adoration Zombie expression while Josh mugged awkwardly for the cameras at every opportunity. They both acted like 13 year-olds at a school dance, not adults who are about to be married, which makes total sense given their development in that area was arrested at, like, age 7. It's been a few years since I've seen the episodes, but I remember being creeped out by the whole thing. Nothing felt genuine and I couldn't help but put myself in Anna's position, and it was horrifying.

[Tabbygirl521]

I wonder if young women in a courtship are allowed to pull their hands away, or if that is part of learning to submit. You know, before they have to jump into the sack with a relative stranger. I saw TFDW and Priscilla's wedding video recently and they are hand-sexing during vows. To me, Priscilla looks very uncomfortable. Heck, with all the Gothardy restrictions on touching, hand sex in public might seem to them like running naked in public would feel to us. That could also be a part of Anna's demeanor with Handsy Josh.

[flyingdi]

I do think Josh loves Anna in his weird way. I think he may just have a very warped view of marriage and family. I also think Josh`s love for Anna may not be romantic love but I think he cares for her.

I think if Josh has any sense of embarrassment it may be because Anna was caught in the crossfire. I do not think he gives a rat's ass how the Duggars feel.

[flyingdi]

Another problem I see the Duggar children having is they aren't allowed any close friendships within their peer groups. Even the friendships between the siblings seem to be discouraged after awhile. None of these kids seem particularly close to each other with the possible exception of Jessa/Jinger and Jackson/JoHannah. These kids literally seem too have no one to talk to. A good majority of them seem horribly lonely in a huge crowd of people.

I think Josh`s problem is that he is smart. I think he knew growing up there was something a little off about his life and family, he just had no idea how to fix it.

[kokapetl]

I wonder if young women in a courtship are allowed to pull their hands away, or if that is part of learning to submit. You know, before they have to jump into the sack with a relative stranger. I saw TFDW and Priscilla's wedding video recently and they are hand-sexing during vows. To me, Priscilla looks very uncomfortable. Heck, with all the Gothardy restrictions on touching, hand sex in public might seem to them like running naked in public would feel to us. That could also be a part of Anna's demeanor with Handsy Josh.

Perhaps David was going all out trying to convince himself that he was feeling and acting the "correct" way. I'm pretty sure he knew that his earlier appearances on the show had the Internet saying he was a flaming closet queen, maybe he wanted to visibly "improve".

Priscilla was almost a spectator at her own wedding, it was quite odd. I think she really just had to show up on time.

There's an almost absurd scene at the end of of the Smuggar wedding episode where the newlyweds drive off to their honeymoon listening to Dr Ed Wheat's Intended for Pleasure: Sex Technique and Sexual Fulfillment in Christian Marriage on audiobook. Like cramming for an exam 5 minutes beforehand.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Kokapetl

[Aja]

They're more obsessed with sex than Hugh Hefner and Larry Flynt combined and multiplied by a thousand. Good Lord indeed.

[kellylovessnark]

With regards to Joshgate 2. I wonder if Anna had any idea something was not right. She was all happy with M4, but Josh could not even muster acting skills to fake being happy. All you could see was "Oh crap, not another person to support."

ETA: I hope this isn't speculation or anything, but a question I had. If it is, mods you can delete.

Edited November 10, 2015 by kellylovessnark

[riverblue22]

Josh could dig himself out of this mess.  He is smart and combined with some further education, he could do something with that.  Today there are many teleworking types of careers--he could go to an IT school and get some training.  Also, he could go into the trades, say electrician, and work on commercial jobs.  I don't think the other electricians and plumbers, etc. would have a problem working with him.  I know a guy who was a drug addict but he is in the ironworkers union, and he has been able to come back from that and support his family.  Jim Bob has a lot of connections and I think someone would help him out.

.

Edited November 10, 2015 by riverblue22

[kokapetl]

I think Josh would need a new identity and extensive plastic surgery to overcome the molestation scandal.

[NikSac]

I think Josh really does want to get well and put his fractured life back together. I believe Josh knows what he did was wrong and that normal people don't do the stuff he did. Including the molestation and the cheating, porn mess.

Unfortunately, he has no clue that this "pray it away" place isn't going to work like he hopes.

 

I hope you're right but I have my doubts about him knowing the molestation was wrong. Even the people he molested don't seem to think it was wrong (at least, the ones who've spoken up so far).  "Eh.. no biggie.. he was sly and it happens all the time in our world" seems to be the sentiment.

 

I do think he wants to change and improve, I just have a hard time understanding if he knows what was wrong and why - and I doubt he'll learn that where he is now.

[zenme]

They're more obsessed with sex than Hugh Hefner and Larry Flynt combined and multiplied by a thousand. Good Lord indeed.

 

They really are! I don't think anyone but perverts really give sex this much thought! Ma and Pa Duggar probably think about it a hundred times more a day than a regular person.  They have themselves and all those kids, not to mention the rest of "civilians" they come in contact with on a daily basis that they have to monitor. Of course, Jimbo's always a naked kneecap away from humping Michelle on the spot.  

[Zahdii]

With regards to Joshgate 2. I wonder if Anna had any idea something was not right. She was all happy with M4, but Josh could not even muster acting skills to fake being happy. All you could see was "Oh crap, not another person to support."

ETA: I hope this isn't speculation or anything, but a question I had. If it is, mods you can delete.

 

The mods won't delete your post.  It's been mentioned before that Josh looked less than thrilled to find out another baby was on the way.

 

In that respect, I'll admit to feeling sorry for Josh at that time.  I could do a whole novel on why I think he did the things he did in the past, but once he got married I think he was shocked to find himself still dissatisfied.  He was trapped doing a job his father created, so he blew it off as much as possible.  Anna seemed to adore him, but while she was trained to submit to him sexually, I think fundy-style sex bored him.  The kids kept coming, and he was living in a small house assigned to him by his controlling parents.

 

I'd be interested to know how he landed the job with the FRC, considering that his parents seemed to know nothing about it until he announced it on camera.  I'd be willing to bet he thought that he'd broken free, at least a little.  But he was still filming the show, his family was still visiting A LOT, Anna still wasn't comfortable mixing with other people and still focused on having more children.  I also suspect that Josh realized that he was woefully unprepared for the job he was hired to do.  It would have been a good time to start taking night classes to try to advance his SOTDRT 'education', but as far as I know he didn't do that.  I wouldn't be surprised if Josh was feeling like his dream job wasn't working out and was nearing it's expiration date.

 

So Anna happily bounding into their bedroom with a camera crew and a still-wet test strip so she could wake him up and inform him that #4 was on the way was too much to handle.  He did the best he could to act OK with it all, but it wouldn't be a shock to discover that this is when he stopped playing around online and started actually meeting women face to face.  I wonder if he was surprised that he had to pay women to have sex with him.

 

Hey Josh?  You can blame your crappy parents, and by extension your crappy religion and Gothard too.  But you're an adult now, and when you're done crying over all that, you need to take charge of your life.  Stop listening to your parents and get real help.  And if Anna continues to let you bed her, wear a condom until you are in a position to decide if you want to stay married or not.  If you choose to stay married, you need to bring Anna into the 21st century and decide together how many children you're going to have.

[zenme]

Didn't someone on this board say that they'd met the Duggars at a signing or something, and they got the impression that Anna is sweet and nice for the cameras but it looks wears the pants in the relationship--presumably the only time she ever wears pants.  How stifling for Josh to have been repressed all his life with mom and dad, find a woman that he thinks is the right girl for him, only to find out that her sweet as pie persona was all a lie.