Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Quilt Fairy]

Can someone translate that into normal English? Because I have no idea what she is trying to say. Is she happy or sad about it?

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

Wow. The idea that anyone would see their impending marriage as something akin to knowingly walking into your own torture & death by crucifixion is so incredibly sad.

The thought that parents would know their child felt this way and still send them to their figurative to torture/death is disgusting and makes me so angry that I feel kind of stabby.

These poor young women and young men.

[3girlsforus]

Can someone translate that into normal English? Because I have no idea what she is trying to say. Is she happy or sad about it?

 

She is talking about the time in the Bible as Jesus was walking toward the cross to be crucified. He knew He had to go through the pain and torture of crucifixion and that it was God's will that He die. At that time Jesus prayed asking if God could allow this cup to pass... in other words could there be some way He didn't have to go through death and resurrection. Priscilla saw/sees her courtship and marriage as God's will but not as something she wants to do at all and she prayed to God to let the cup pass from her - in other words to find some path for her other than having to marry David. 

 

Bottom line... she was desperately unhappy about it but felt she had no right to be because her parents told her God wanted her to do this.

[satrunrose]

That may be one of the saddest things I have read in a long time. What ever part of speech love constitutes, how can you walk into a life-long relationship feeling like Christ at the crucifixion? Shouldn't it feel like Easter morning where Christians believe Jesus rose, death is defeated and every wonderful dream is possible? What kind of sicko parents marry one daughter off to an admitted child molester and lead another to believe that marriage is martyrdom and that's the only way to make God happy? 

 

I hate to give the Duggar "parents" (and boy do I use that term lightly) credit for anything, but at least Jessa and Jill seemed happy with the spouses Daddy picked. 

 

Talk about the sins of the father...

[Beth64]

There's an article on eonline that claims Anna is not in Arkansas, but is with her mother.

[CofCinci]

There's an article on eonline that claims Anna is not in Arkansas, but is with her mother.

Run, Anna!  Run!

 

http://www.eonline.com/news/697594/the-duggars-where-are-they-now-after-josh-duggar-s-scandals-get-updates-on-him-anna-jill-and-jessa

[3girlsforus]

I don't think this is better news. Just another group of nuts telling her she owes her life to Josh.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

I hope that's true. I hope Anna is breaking away from the Duggars. And I hope Josh isn't at RU but somewhere else consulting a divorce attorney so that he can live his life how he sees fit and without further hurting Anna with lies and betrayal.

I don't have a lot of faith in her parents facilitating an exit from the marriage for her....but sometimes people can surprise you. Maybe at her parents' house she's at least more likely to be in touch with her brother and sister who left the cult. Perhaps they can help her if she wants to leave Josh.

Edited September 19, 2015 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[GeeGolly]

I don't think it's true. There is a pic in People and Mac & Mike are in Arkansas. I wouldn't think after all that has been happening she would leave 2 of her children behind for any length of time.

[Churchhoney]

Than a college degree or a specific trade isn't out of reach.  Isn't it one of the Duggar guy's who is piloting a plane?  I don't think Josh is incapable of supporting his family although being shoved into pray away camp really limits those options.  In the end it's up to Josh if he's going to stay in Duggarland under JB's thumb or not.  He has options and those options depend upon whether he's going to break Duggar or not.  I suppose I am defensive about those who haven't been educated in a public school environment being labeled as 'having no education'.  My education was not limited to public school (for reasons other than religious) and I do not consider myself as 'having no education'.  I know you weren't the one to say that originally but I just want to explain why I feel the way I do.

 

Who said anything about it being homeschooling that marks Josh out as uneducated? You're saying that I'm the one who"said it originally" but I most certainly didn't. There are fabulously educated homeschooled people. There have been fabulously educated people who educated themselves. I said, specifically, that Josh Duggar is uneducated. I've said on this forum many times that much homeschooling is excellent.

 

Josh, however, was "educated" by ignorant, stupid, lazy, careless, hater-of-learning, public-school-educated Michelle Duggar. And his assigned (and pretty much only allowed) reading material was the frigging "Wisdom Booklets" lazily, carelessly, falsifyingly written by that ass Bill Gothard and his buddies. Those stupid stupid "books" that that ass and his friends probably wrote in about an hour apiece, as they embroidered their stupid fantasies and things-they-wanted-to-brainwash-people-about into supposed "school" subjects. Pure garbage. And with the laziness and ignorance and stupidity of Josh's only "teacher," Michelle, and what looks to me like the general laziness of the Duggar family, he clearly went no farther.

 

You can see that quite obviously in his little "speeches" on behalf of the Family Research Council and in the times when he tried to speak semi-off-the-cuff on the show, such as in one of the last episodes when he "discussed' the "meaning of courtship" with Josiah. He bumbles and blunders around talking like a fool.

 

And it has nothing to do with not going to school. It has everything to do with being mis-educated and, in fact, deliberately un-educated by his horrifyingly stupid mother and father and the old brainwasher Bill Gothard, who deliberately tries to turn kids against learning so that they'll be easier to manipulate. That and, I'd guess, the Duggar laziness that apparently left him content with one of the worst educations on earth, since it got him a job in which he could spend his time preening himself and calling other people ugly names.

Edited September 20, 2015 by Churchhoney

[Julia]

I hope that's true. I hope Anna is breaking away from the Duggars. And I hope Josh isn't at RU but somewhere else consulting a divorce attorney so that he can live his life how he sees fit and without further hurting Anna with lies and betrayal.

I don't have a lot of faith in her parents facilitating an exit from the marriage for her....but sometimes people can surprise you. Maybe at her parents' house she's at least more likely to be in touch with her brother and sister who left the cult. Perhaps they can help her if she wants to leave Josh.

 

If nothing else, those two have arranged their lives so they need to be supported in their old age, and there's no-one around who has the wherewithal to manage it. They might be willing to countenance a divorce just to be able to marry her off to someone solvent who's looking for a battle-tested Good Christian Wife™. 

 

And it has nothing to do with not going to school. It has everything to do with being mis-educated and, in fact, deliberately un-educated by his horrifyingly stupid mother and father and the old brainwasher Bill Gothard, who deliberately tries to turn kids against learning so that they'll be easier to manipulate.

 

Bears repeating. I think there are very few limits to how far you can go if you're some combination of hard-working, talented and determined. I think your odds go down significantly if your parents cut your hamstrings to keep you from straying.

Edited September 19, 2015 by Julia

[sometimesy]

There's an article on eonline that claims Anna is not in Arkansas, but is with her mother.

 

Is this good or bad? Maybe Anna needs some alone time. Just her and her children to think things through.

[Sew Sumi]

 

 

 

There's an article on eonline that claims Anna is not in Arkansas, but is with her mother.

I doubt it. Jill posted pictures today of Mack and Michael going to Krispy Kreme with various Duggar kids to get free donuts, dressed up as pirates. No way Anna would travel without her kids. I think this rumor got started because Boob and a couple of the howlers were spotted at Epcot yesterday. They are apparently picking up vehicles; I guess they're gearing up another used car lot?

[Fuzzysox]

She is talking about the time in the Bible as Jesus was walking toward the cross to be crucified. He knew He had to go through the pain and torture of crucifixion and that it was God's will that He die. At that time Jesus prayed asking if God could allow this cup to pass... in other words could there be some way He didn't have to go through death and resurrection. Priscilla saw/sees her courtship and marriage as God's will but not as something she wants to do at all and she prayed to God to let the cup pass from her - in other words to find some path for her other than having to marry David. 

 

Bottom line... she was desperately unhappy about it but felt she had no right to be because her parents told her God wanted her to do this.

Wow I never knew that Prissy wasn't happy about courting David. What a sad life her parents set her up for.

 

As for Anna I read that article on the Jill thread but if she is in Florida why did her kids go to Krispy Kreme today with Jerick?

[3girlsforus]

I really hope that Anna hasn't been separated from her kids and send to her parents for her own form of 'rehab' to pray away her role in Josh's "missteps"

[CofCinci]

Perhaps JB allowed Anna to go visit to shut up her family but offered to keep Anna's older children as insurance that she would return. I wouldn't put it past JB to tell a divorcing Anna that Arkansas would consider her children abandoned.

[Beth64]

Anna's been through a lot this year. She may not be able to care for four kids right now.

[Julia]

Anna's been through a lot this year. She may not be able to care for four kids right now.

 

Thank you. I would have snapped after they made me go to Famy's wedding. Actually, I would have waited until I could scratch Famy's eyes out - how much of the money the happy couple made from talking trash about Josh to People and InTouch do you suppose Famy spent on that mani/pedi, if it wasn't actually regifted from one of her many showers? - and then snapped.

 

I don't believe there's anyone in that family who will lift a finger to protect her if it serves their purposes to throw her to the press, I think her kids are way better off with functioning caregivers (wonder if that's not part of why Jill and Derick came home?) and I hope she stays in hiding until she can breathe again.

Edited September 20, 2015 by Julia

[MonicaM]

I doubt it. Jill posted pictures today of Mack and Michael going to Krispy Kreme with various Duggar kids to get free donuts, dressed up as pirates. No way Anna would travel without her kids. I think this rumor got started because Boob and a couple of the howlers were spotted at Epcot yesterday. They are apparently picking up vehicles; I guess they're gearing up another used car lot?

Any excuse for yet another vacation!  Their motto seems to be "all play and no work".  

[3girlsforus]

So wait... Boob took a couple kids to Epcot, but not all of them? Exactly how to you choose who gets to go? 

[sometimesy]

Anna's been through a lot this year. She may not be able to care for four kids right now.

How long should Anna be a puddle? Time is passing. She had four kids. She can't shirk her parental responsibility because she has the sads. She is in a pretty good position, she isn't financially worried as JB is likely picking up the bills. The j'slaves are available to help her if she needs some quiet time or help with more practical things. IMO though she needs to be strong and set an example for her older kids. She has to remain the parent and not designate any of that to j'slaves or other family. The KIDS have been through enough, their father is gone, they may not understand why, their mother is upset. They need the remaining parent to keep them feeling secure.  It's bad enough she has made a choice to raise her children in Gothardism, IMO, which isn't popular, I think Anna should be resuming the homeschool schedule she would have had if they were still in DC. and only take help she needs. Get the kids lives back to as normal as possible, no live in j'slave. It's not like she is balancing a job and eviction notices on top of everything else. Instead of dispersing the kids, I think Anna should keep them closer. I know, I sound like a bitch, but I would tell my own child the same thing and give her the practical help with some breaks. Sure it will be tough, it's a tough situation.

 

[Temperance]

She is talking about the time in the Bible as Jesus was walking toward the cross to be crucified. He knew He had to go through the pain and torture of crucifixion and that it was God's will that He die. At that time Jesus prayed asking if God could allow this cup to pass... in other words could there be some way He didn't have to go through death and resurrection. Priscilla saw/sees her courtship and marriage as God's will but not as something she wants to do at all and she prayed to God to let the cup pass from her - in other words to find some path for her other than having to marry David. 

 

Bottom line... she was desperately unhappy about it but felt she had no right to be because her parents told her God wanted her to do this.

Not to get off topic, but I wonder if this is how Jana views marriage...

Edited September 20, 2015 by Temperance

[GeeGolly]

I doubt Anna is in FL. Or if she went it was quick. I agree she should try and not alter her kids lives too much, too.

 

But it has got to suck for her, she's no doubt an emotional wreck, she may have to ask for money to run to the store, she just moved, and has a newborn.

 

If I was her, the worst would be not having access to my own money. Hopefully she does.

[Sew Sumi]

So wait... Boob took a couple kids to Epcot, but not all of them? Exactly how to you choose who gets to go? 

Apparently, he flew in with the boy twins to pick up vehicles. Did Anna fly out with them? Who knows, but the way that article was worded, and that they took speculation from Pickles' page, I take the Inquisitir's word with a pillar of salt. 

[3girlsforus]

How long should Anna be a puddle? Time is passing. She had four kids. She can't shirk her parental responsibility because she has the sads. She is in a pretty good position, she isn't financially worried as JB is likely picking up the bills. The j'slaves are available to help her if she needs some quiet time or help with more practical things. IMO though she needs to be strong and set an example for her older kids. She has to remain the parent and not designate any of that to j'slaves or other family. The KIDS have been through enough, their father is gone, they may not understand why, their mother is upset. They need the remaining parent to keep them feeling secure.  It's bad enough she has made a choice to raise her children in Gothardism, IMO, which isn't popular, I think Anna should be resuming the homeschool schedule she would have had if they were still in DC. and only take help she needs. Get the kids lives back to as normal as possible, no live in j'slave. It's not like she is balancing a job and eviction notices on top of everything else. Instead of dispersing the kids, I think Anna should keep them closer. I know, I sound like a bitch, but I would tell my own child the same thing and give her the practical help with some breaks. Sure it will be tough, it's a tough situation.

 

while I agree to a certain extent, I think it's a big assumption to think she doesn't have financial concerns. If JB is picking up the bills it's only if she dances to his tune which could include things like living in the TTH or submitting to some kind of chaperone or whatever he decides fits his needs. She's not in a position to get her own housing with Josh gone and unable to sign a lease or anything like that so she's at least at the mercy of JB for housing. She can't just take care of things how she'd like to. My guess is that the strain of having to work within JB's rule is the primary thing making it difficult for her to establish a day-to-day schedule. Of course it's possible she's doing ok. Just because the older kids went to get Krispy Kreme with Jill and Derick doesn't mean she's shirking her responsibility. There is nothing that I've seen from her that makes me think she won't do everything she can for her kids. She's a far more involved mom than Michele. 

[Fuzzysox]

How can she say no to getting free donuts when all the aunts and uncles went? I can't see Anna not allowing her kids to have some fun once in a while. Mackie, Marcus and Mikey really have never been with any other family they would have felt left out.

Edited September 20, 2015 by Fuzzysox

[sometimesy]

How can she say no to getting free donuts when all the aunts and uncles went? I can't see Anna not allowing her kids to have some fun once in a while. Mackie, Marcus and Mikey really have never been with any other family they would have felt left out.

 

If this is in response to my post, I wasn't suggesting the kids be isolated from family.

[magpye29]

Jogging down the road, the Lord reminded me of the road He trod to Calvary.

 

I laughed and laughed when I read this, picturing Jesus as Forrest Gump running on that long, endless highway.  I know what she meant; she just didn't write it correctly. 

 

That was certainly not a road of emotion.

 

If that wasn't a road of emotion, I don't know what in the world could be.  

 

But remember, these kids have had emotion beaten out of them (literally, if they went through blanket training).  Smile, smile, smile, feeling nothing all the while. Every one of those kids is a volcano, calm and pleasant of countenance on the outside, but a roiling, teeming lava of emotions stuffed down deep and likely to wreak immense havoc on everyone around them when they finally erupt.  And we'll all get front-row seats to the destruction courtesy of People and InTouch when in inevitably happens.

[Barb23]

I laughed and laughed when I read this, picturing Jesus as Forrest Gump running on that long, endless highway.  I know what she meant; she just didn't write it correctly. 

Run Jesus run! I pictured something similar when I read it too.

[Loves2Dance]

Excuse me while I snap my mouth shut...Prissy Prissy, what the hell have they been force feeding you all your life? 

[Liz Tudor]

I purposed to visit the Wallers' blog, and went down the rabbit hole of links to other fundie couples who are their friends/relatives (including Josh & Anna--some very interesting reading there, with the hindsight we now have). Yikes. You can tell they all drank deeply from the same vat of kool-aid. Their language is not unlike reading that of another time (I don't want to sully The Bard by even mentioning him in this post, but you get what I mean). Maybe because the only Bible they can use is KJV, so they pick up on that language style, heavy on the "thees, thous, thy," etc.). Methinks I am in great need of a head-clearing goblet of claret to soothe my aggrieved noggin.

Edited September 21, 2015 by Liz Tudor

[Iguessnot]

Yes, it is, unfortunately, 100% true - Anna gave birth while on the toilet at home. It was Jana or Jill, I believe, that "caught" the baby before, uh...splashdown. 

 

It was all filmed, very poorly pixelated, and, to this day, makes me cringe to even think about it. 

 

So, yeah, for all the blah blah blah about being the Queens of Modesty Mountain, the TLC cameras captured her essentially naked from the waist down on a toilet. It's mind-numbingly incongruous that everyone gets the vapors if someone shows a freaking kneecap, but if you're having a baby we all get to discover firsthand whether or not Anna needs a bikini wax. 

I recall footage from her first birth when Josh was down in the trenches helping deliver the baby. It was horrifying to me that this modest girl was subjected to having TLC 's camera and audio crew filming such a private moment. And seeing as they had to blur out sections, who knows how many TLC folks are privy to the raw footage. Birth is a miraculous thing, but it is not a spectator sport and I dislike this level of invasion.

[OhioMom]

I doubt it. Jill posted pictures today of Mack and Michael going to Krispy Kreme with various Duggar kids to get free donuts, dressed up as pirates. No way Anna would travel without her kids. I think this rumor got started because Boob and a couple of the howlers were spotted at Epcot yesterday. They are apparently picking up vehicles; I guess they're gearing up another used car lot?

So...virtually the whole family (that was "stateside") dressed up as pirates for free doughnuts? Is there any freebie off limits to this clan?

[zenme]

So...virtually the whole family (that was "stateside") dressed up as pirates for free doughnuts? Is there any freebie off limits to this clan?

 

Free condoms?

I recall footage from her first birth when Josh was down in the trenches helping deliver the baby. It was horrifying to me that this modest girl was subjected to having TLC 's camera and audio crew filming such a private moment. And seeing as they had to blur out sections, who knows how many TLC folks are privy to the raw footage. Birth is a miraculous thing, but it is not a spectator sport and I dislike this level of invasion.

 

I just remember him in a sing-songy voice saying, "Push, baby, push.  Push, baby, push."  So annoying. 

[Julia]

I recall footage from her first birth when Josh was down in the trenches helping deliver the baby. It was horrifying to me that this modest girl was subjected to having TLC 's camera and audio crew filming such a private moment. And seeing as they had to blur out sections, who knows how many TLC folks are privy to the raw footage. Birth is a miraculous thing, but it is not a spectator sport and I dislike this level of invasion.

 

And yet Michelle can't have another woman in the room when she strips down to her long johns to put on a wedding dress.

[dillpickles]

And yet Michelle can't have another woman in the room when she strips down to her long johns to put on a wedding dress.

Michelle already defrauded some guy in her bikini back in the day... we can't have a repeat of that now can we?

[Julia]

Michelle already defrauded some guy in her bikini back in the day... we can't have a repeat of that now can we?

 

I'm not a determinist at heart, but it is laid upon my heart that Michelle is at roughly the same amount of risk of defrauding Debbie as she is of defrauding Randy. Who, leaving aside the other obvious barriers to their love, will not leave the house if his silk socks don't match his pocket squares, so no.

[JoanArc]

And yet Michelle can't have another woman in the room when she strips down to her long johns to put on a wedding dress.

Her urostomy must be quite defrauding.

[zenme]

Michelle already defrauded some guy in her bikini back in the day... we can't have a repeat of that now can we?

 

Yes! I, for one, would like to stay married.  Goodness knows what my husband would ever do if he caught a glimpse of Michelle's knees.

[JoanArc]

http://perezhilton.com/2015-09-22-law-and-order-svu-josh-duggar-scandal#.VgGvG87q2Uc

 

Yes, looks like we'll get a SVU out of Josh's story! If anyone deserves it, the Duggars do.

[Churchhoney]

http://perezhilton.com/2015-09-22-law-and-order-svu-josh-duggar-scandal#.VgGvG87q2Uc

 

Yes, looks like we'll get a SVU out of Josh's story! If anyone deserves it, the Duggars do.

 

My favorite part of this speculation:

 

'Peter Scanavino, who plays Detective Carisi chimed in, saying:

  

'"I wouldn't mind doing one just because I have never been so infuriated with someone's level of hypocrisy, and lying, and then displacement of responsibility onto something else. When I think about that guy, it boils my blood, I will say."'

 

Well said, Mr. Scanavino.

[Sew Sumi]

Her urostomy must be quite defrauding.

Eeeeew!

[Churchhoney]

Her urostomy must be quite defrauding.

 

Aren't they all?

[Defrauder]

Yes! I, for one, would like to stay married.  Goodness knows what my husband would ever do if he caught a glimpse of Michelle's knees.

Yes just imagine how very many divorces she prevented by blurring out her knees when she went water-skiing!  So very thoughtful.  Droves of men would have went running to divorce attorneys had they been privy to the naked knee water skier. 

[kokapetl]

I recall footage from her first birth when Josh was down in the trenches helping deliver the baby. It was horrifying to me that this modest girl was subjected to having TLC 's camera and audio crew filming such a private moment. And seeing as they had to blur out sections, who knows how many TLC folks are privy to the raw footage. Birth is a miraculous thing, but it is not a spectator sport and I dislike this level of invasion.

Anna seems sort of pragmatic. A surprising number of people would allow medical students and reality tv shows to observe them expelling a baby from their bodies up close, Anna is probably one of them. She's a good mother, the pressure she put on Josh to move to DC was so her children wouldn't necessarily be rural yokels. She wanted a better life for her kids. A rare thing for a Duggar to do.

[zenme]

Anna seems sort of pragmatic. A surprising number of people would allow medical students and reality tv shows to observe them expelling a baby from their bodies up close, Anna is probably one of them. She's a good mother, the pressure she put on Josh to move to DC was so her children wouldn't necessarily be rural yokels. She wanted a better life for her kids. A rare thing for a Duggar to do.

 

I dunno.  I think Anna wanted Josh to take the D.C. job for the $$, and as far as having the baby on TV, I think that was also related to TLC and the $$.  I don't think she cared about the cameras at the time she was in labor and delivering, because frankly, at that point, most women just want the baby out.  When I was delivering, all of my modesty went out the window.  I could have cared less who saw me, or came in the delivery room door. "Just get this baby out of me!" was all I was thinking.

[OhioMom]

Her urostomy must be quite defrauding.

Wait...what??

Has she had that procedure done?

[kassygreene]

I dunno.  I think Anna wanted Josh to take the D.C. job for the $$, and as far as having the baby on TV, I think that was also related to TLC and the $$.  I don't think she cared about the cameras at the time she was in labor and delivering, because frankly, at that point, most women just want the baby out.  When I was delivering, all of my modesty went out the window.  I could have cared less who saw me, or came in the delivery room door. "Just get this baby out of me!" was all I was thinking.

Word to this.  I never have been pregnant, but when I was in the ER three decades ago with a herniated disk, I truly did not care who saw what, I just wanted a doctor to admit me or send me home with a prescription for something that would stop the muscle spasms.  Pain is a very demanding monster, and really, nothing else matters.

[SomePity1066]

Word to this.  I never have been pregnant, but when I was in the ER three decades ago with a herniated disk, I truly did not care who saw what, I just wanted a doctor to admit me or send me home with a prescription for something that would stop the muscle spasms.  Pain is a very demanding monster, and really, nothing else matters.

Yes, true - very true, but there's "I don't care what they see..." and then there's REALLY "I don't care what they see..."

 

(NSFW. Actually, NSF ANYWHERE !!! Click at your own peril)

 

http://www.stfuparentsblog.com/post/229983649/halloween-09-i-recognize-the-editing-only-adds

[JoanArc]

Wait...what??

Has she had that procedure done?

No, that was my snark. But I'd honestly be surprised if there weren't SOME incontinence after 19 kids, but I'll leave my speculation there. For all we know Michelle's nether reasons are virgin-fresh and full functional.