Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[JoanArc]

 

By smiling I don't necessarily mean bright cheery, but they didn't look nervous, anxious, distressed, crying...etc, etc. They looked normal, happy even as if nothing was phasing them.

I thought his voice cracked a little in the video. "We don't comment to paparazzi".

 

 

No one can say Anna doesn't have a career.  In addition to being a mom, she is also a broodmare and a pack mule.  That Josh is quite the catch.

To be fair to Josh (ducks!), he was wrangling the three kids, Anna was pulling a wheeled carry-on type bag. That might have been the less stressful job for someone in the third trimester.

[Sew Sumi]

I don't remember Anna smiling. I remember he was carrying Marcus. She was hauling luggage. Some things never change! ;)

 

By smiling I don't necessarily mean bright cheery, but they didn't look nervous, anxious, distressed, crying...etc, etc. They looked normal, happy even as if nothing was phasing them. 

Someone I know chopped the picture to just show Anna, and she looks quite stressed (sorry, I refuse to host pics to post here). This pic was taken the day after the first InTouch article on the 19th (signaling the police report to come). By heading home and hunkering down, Josh pretty much admitted that he knew it was the end of the line for him. By this point, the Duggars would have likely been alerted that InTouch had received the documents on the 19th. Even if they didn't know that, knowing about the first article and what it implied was enough. 

 

I imagine that Anna had just head the full truth of the matter the day before. She's never had a poker face, but one could also blame her non-smiling countenance on the fact that she was lugging around a near 2-year old, as well as a piece of luggage. Frankly, I think it was a combination of all factors. I can't imagine what life is like for her now. Being submissive and standing by your man, as Gothard demands, can't be easy for her. 

[Loves2Dance]

I thought his voice cracked a little in the video. "We don't comment to paparazzi".

 

I only saw pictures, I never saw a video. 

 

The picture I saw of Anna was no different than how we normally see her, though she is in her 3rd trimester and was likely flying around her cut off date anyway, so I could understand why she may look stressed to others. 

[Seashell Lover]

They do not have to leave the house we all know Walmart delivers.

[Churchhoney]

Really??? You are far more political than I am - I get more involved further into the race (the debates are popcorn and favorite blankey events!). I thought Huckabee was distancing himself a little - I think his knee jerk "forgive and forget" statement blew up in his face. I know you must have caught something in the layout of the interviews or the posturing of the whole debacle makes you think Huck's team is involved. How so? (I'm not being snarky, I'm really curious). Is this to "help" Huck save face for having defended him? Wow. You stopped me in my tracks with that one.

 

Well, CNN reported a few days ago that one of Huck's longtime pr advisors was working with the Duggars. But I don't think anybody knows the nature of Huckabuck's actual involvement, if any, in that arrangement. The guy's not Huck's conjoined twin, after all, so it's even possible that he's just working with the Duggars because they're also longtime occasional clients/Arkansas associates. Or not.

 

Anyway, here's a new Newsweek piece about it. By the tone of it it's clear that, even if Huck isn't involved in hooking these people up, everybody's still going to assume that he is.

 

http://www.newsweek.com/huckabees-connections-duggars-run-deep-340667

Edited June 8, 2015 by Churchhoney

[Churchhoney]

Last pictures were from the DC Airport and he was smiling, as was Anna. 

 

It's not necessarily evidence, but someone on another forum found online evidence that the Maryland house is already listed for rent -- presumably right away. So it seems they're probably fully removed. I think I would have gone to Florida, actually.

[Fuzzysox]

Josh is waiting for Denny Hashert to come out of hiding so Denny takes the media heat so he won't have to.

Edited June 8, 2015 by Fuzzysox

[BucFan]

It's not necessarily evidence, but someone on another forum found online evidence that the Maryland house is already listed for rent -- presumably right away. So it seems they're probably fully removed. I think I would have gone to Florida, actually.

NO! NO! NO!

I Don't Want Him In My State!

[Churchhoney]

NO! NO! NO!

I Don't Want Him In My State!

 

Can't say I blame you!

Josh is waiting for Denny Hashert to coming out of hiding so Denny takes the media heat so he won't have to.

Good luck with that, Josh.

[DangerousMinds]

Really??? You are far more political than I am - I get more involved further into the race (the debates are popcorn and favorite blankey events!). I thought Huckabee was distancing himself a little - I think his knee jerk "forgive and forget" statement blew up in his face. I know you must have caught something in the layout of the interviews or the posturing of the whole debacle makes you think Huck's team is involved. How so? (I'm not being snarky, I'm really curious). Is this to "help" Huck save face for having defended him? Wow. You stopped me in my tracks with that one.

Huck doesn't want anyone to bring up his own sons.

[EarlGreyTea]

I don't remember Anna smiling. I remember he was carrying Marcus. She was hauling luggage. Some things never change! ;)

 

OMG are you serious?! The man has no shame. I'll never forget when they were just moving to D.C. and he walked in front while she juggled all the kids and luggage. And then when he fell asleep while she was in labor while all the women stayed awake. So much hate. He should be kissing her feet for sticking by his side, getting ready to deliver her fourth baby, and keeping her mouth shut about all of this. I bet she knows where the bodies are buried - she and Jana are close, after all.

Edited June 9, 2015 by EarlGreyTea

[cmr2014]

You've raised a really good point...they're treating this as if it's a political scandal...but it isn't. It's an entertainment scandal with heavy religious overtones. People don't vote for the Duggars, they found them (for some reason) aspirational...the feel-good wholesome religious family...and they felt connected to them. (Sincere fans, not snarkaholics like myself.)

And that's why this response is coming across all wrong, IMHO. Huckabee's people are using the wrong playbook.

 

I think that this is a really interesting point, and it explains why the interview was so awful (I still find it hard to believe that they had any expert help). If they had made some effort to find common ground, to relate to the audience as parents, and as religious people: Instead, they deflected, minimized, and lied (or at least looked like liars). Millions of people go through very serious troubles with their children, have found themselves in situations they didn't know how to navigate, and have chosen to turn to their church community for help.

 

I think that part of the failure of the interview is their arrogance and their inability to be (rather than act) genuine and humble. Someone posted a link to a blog entry by a body-language expert who mentioned J'chelle saying "we felt like bad parents" and the expert said "no they didn't, they think they're great parents," and I think that's the truth.

[lbsm330]

Huckabee is on the Kelly File tonight and in big huge letters across the screen, "Americas Obsession with the Duggars". I just can't even with this tonight.

[Mrsjumbo]

Bringing up another abuser- Stephen Collins. But only because I was flipping through channels & saw that "7th heaven" is playing on reruns on the UP channel. So it makes me wonder if someone will pick up "19k & c". I don't see how they could, seeing that 7th heaven was a fictional family but 19 k & c was supposed to be reality.

I really hope Josh is still in DC, we don't want him here in AR!

[frenchtoast]

Please follow the updated posted guidelines. Also, keep the following in mind for this topic:

 

• Please do not psychoanalyze Josh, his sisters and his victims. We cannot know why he did what he did, and we cannot define his victims and how they respond.

• Please do not speculate whether he continued molesting. This includes insinuating or implying that he may molest his children.
• Please don't speculate whether Josh is capable of self harm. 

[JoanArc]

I see Alive.org finally pulled Josh from their speaker list. Jill and Jessa are still listed as speakers. Gotta make hay while the sun shines.

[Seashell Lover]

I wonder how Smuggs feels about bringing down his familys empire.

[kassygreene]

I wonder how Smuggs feels about bringing down his familys empire.

I suspect he feels victimized.  So far he's had sufficient street smarts to not tell us that.

[HumblePi]

I suspect he feels victimized.  So far he's had sufficient street smarts to not tell us that.

Isn't that just karma, that now he's feeling like the victim? Well, too bad for him.

[Aja]

I wonder how Smuggs feels about bringing down his familys empire.

 

Liberal media's fault.

[JenCarroll]

Liberal media's fault.

Obviously! :-)

[Lemur]

I know we're all being snarky in regards to who is to "blame", but whenever I hear a Duggar mention the Liberal Media as being to blame, I just envision Rachel Maddow grabbing Josh's hand, and we all know *that* would never happen.

[Temperance]

OMG are you serious?! The man has no shame. I'll never forget when they were just moving to D.C. and he walked in front while she juggled all the kids and luggage. And then when he fell asleep while she was in labor while all the women stayed awake. So much hate. He should be kissing her feet for sticking by his side, getting ready to deliver her fourth baby, and keeping her mouth shut about all of this. I bet she knows where the bodies are buried - she and Jana are close, after all.

Yeah the old TWOP (televisionwithoutpity) site has been pretty much trashed, but they used to do a list every week and then every year of the worst people on reality tv of the year.(The site, not the Duggar forum). As far as I remember the only one of the Duggars to make that list was Josh and this was long before this current scandal erupted. Josh made the list for falling asleep and not being at Anna's side consistently while she was in labor with Michael. I can't remember all of the reasons, but I think the car lot was also a part of it.  Also for letting his parents make him and his very pregnant wife go on tour around the country on speaking engagements with his family. Does anyone else remember this?

Edited June 9, 2015 by Temperance

[Absolom]

Heading back to Arkansas.

[amitville]

Heading back to Arkansas.

That was fast he packed up his home hired moving trucks . 

Edited June 9, 2015 by amitville

[Kiss my mutt]

Oh, that's too bad. I was hoping Anna would have the chance to deliver her baby with a real midwife.

[Sew Sumi]

I was just coming here to post that. 

 

I worry about who will deliver Anna's baby on such short notice. I suppose they could use the lady who delivered Marcus (remember the car ride from hell with Mechelle?). Hopefully, they won't consider that Miss Joy person that Jill sort of used (nowhere to be seen during her labor). I have no idea how midwives operate, but I would imagine that they want to monitor an entire pregnancy, not just the last month. Can they port Anna's file from the CNM they had lined up in the DC area? Is that permissible across state lines?

 

eta: I guess Golden Boy Molester will stay in the guest house on the compound until his house renovations are completed? No way he can venture out in public in NWA, even if people are generally favorable. There will be enough people giving him shit (rightfully so) that it would be prudent to continue keeping a very low profile for a while.

Edited June 9, 2015 by Sew Sumi

[graefin]

Can they port Anna's file from the CNM they had lined up in the DC area? Is that permissible across state lines?

Everyone has a right to a copy of their medical records regardless of what state they are in, so why not?

[galax-arena]

Heading back to Arkansas.

I wonder how Josh feels*, coming from the highs of DC life back to Arkansas. After I moved to NYC, it took me a couple of years before I felt anything aside from hatred and homesickness, but now that I've given in to NYC's embrace with all the warmth of someone suffering from Stockholm Syndrome, it feels like such a weird comedown whenever I go back to visit family in northern California. I've become so used to the people and lights and noise and lack of space that being back in the South Bay Area with its expanses of open space and clean air and stores that close at 9 pm and lack of crowds can ironically feel a bit suffocating. I'm used to being miserable in public! Where are all the people to piss me off??

I really hope Josh is still in DC, we don't want him here in AR!

I can't agree with this, Mrsjumbo, because I'm sure that Josh himself wishes he were still in DC and I feel obligated on principle to wish for the exact opposite of what Josh Duggar wants. I'm sorry.

 

* I hope he feels like shit, btw. 

[jazzpno]

Yeah the old TWOP (televisionwithoutpity) site has been pretty much trashed, but they used to do a list every week and then every year of the worst people on reality tv of the year.(The site, not the Duggar forum). As far as I remember the only one of the Duggars to make that list was Josh

 

Not quite, Michelle was in the running for "Worst Reality Villain" one year. She was in the running with a guy who had actually committed murder, but I'm pretty sure that she beat him to the title.

[GEML]

I wish they had stayed long enough to deliver M4. A futile wish, I suppose, since there's no money in it.

And if "sin in the camp" brought down the Duggars before, I can imagine what JB is saying to his oldest now. If Josh has disturbing qualities about him, then sure, bring it on. But if he's essentially done everything possible to change and, what's more, be a mini-Jim Bob and he is still to blame for everything that goes wrong in the family - well, I feel badly for him.

[Jellybeans]

You know, I have had had some pretty shitty things done to me by my brother and I do not talk to him at all and never will. But that does not mean I hope his life goes to hell. I hope he stays away from me and no, I never think about him except when I am trying to explain why I have no family left. And yes I get pissy when I explain it because it makes me pissy.

I hope Josh has lived honorably since marrying Anna, and if so he has to deal with the consequences of his actions.

[Loves2Dance]

I was just coming here to post that. 

 

I worry about who will deliver Anna's baby on such short notice. I suppose they could use the lady who delivered Marcus (remember the car ride from hell with Mechelle?). Hopefully, they won't consider that Miss Joy person that Jill sort of used (nowhere to be seen during her labor). I have no idea how midwives operate, but I would imagine that they want to monitor an entire pregnancy, not just the last month. Can they port Anna's file from the CNM they had lined up in the DC area? Is that permissible across state lines?

 

eta: I guess Golden Boy Molester will stay in the guest house on the compound until his house renovations are completed? No way he can venture out in public in NWA, even if people are generally favorable. There will be enough people giving him shit (rightfully so) that it would be prudent to continue keeping a very low profile for a while.

I spent almost all of one pregnancy in Germany and had to move (Army family) to Missouri where I delivered. Since Anna isn't really high risk (like I am to the extreme) it's actually really easy to switch medical records and people. The big issue is midwives generally collect a large sum of money to 'rent' your space around your due date so they're not booked and it's typically done in installments. To find someone last minute they need to ensure the person isn't already booked, they have the cash to do it, and they meet up asap about their wishes and expectations. It's not that difficult of a process, tbh. 

[JoanArc]

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/kate-gosselins-bodyguard-steve-helping-josh-move-201596

 

 

Helping hand! Steve Neild, who famously served as a bodyguard (and rumored fling) for Kate Gosselin, continued his relationship with TLC's biggest stars this past weekend when he spent time at Josh Duggar's house.

I can see why Josh needs a bodyguard. Can't really snark on that.

[msblossom]

I'm not sure I feel close to even begin feeling badly for Josh if he has in fact turned himself around and truly changed and is no longer a threat to falling back into pedophelia or molestation of a minor. First of all, we haven't heard Josh claim that he is "fixed", sorry, or have taken steps for taking responsibility for his actions. We saw a public statement that sorta apologizes that GEML surmised was likely written by or at least approved by Josh's lawyer. He's been in hiding and I believe he only quit his job at the FRC because he was given no choice. I think Tony Perkins had the letter of resignation drawn up and gave it to Josh to sign in exchange for severance pay and a smidgen of dignity to be let go under the guise of Josh resigning.

I do feel badly for Anna and their children. I cannot imagine the amount of humiliation and suffering she and the kids are feeling at present.

I will say that of all the Duggars (with the exception of Jana), I slowly came around to liking Josh the best (after he moved to DC). And I felt the same way about Josh and Anna as a couple. I was hopeful that they would become more mainstream in their beliefs and lifestyle the longer they stayed in Washington and the further apart they remained from JB & the rest of the Duggars.

<sigh> Josh and his folks messed that up a long time ago. The truth will set you free.

[Jellybeans]

I don't know if the truth will ever set Josh free.

[GEML]

I don't disagree that the truth will set him free, but I'm not sure that he even knows what the truth is anymore. The stories and cover ups have been pretty great (numerous) and convoluted. I think Josh had a better understanding of right and wrong at 14 than he does now, even though he may have been doing terrible things then and hasn't done anything since.

Any of us are able to tell ourselves a story so often that it becomes more "true" in our memories than what actually happened. It's a great survival mechanism. Lousy character trait.

[graefin]

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/kate-gosselins-bodyguard-steve-helping-josh-move-201596

 

I can see why Josh needs a bodyguard. Can't really snark on that.

Is this evidence that TLC is still providing for them?

[JessDVD]

I've generally been inclined to give Josh the benefit of the doubt that this stuff was isolated to the years that it was reported to be, and since then he's moved past it. Lots of people do stupid things when they're a teen (though most of us at least have the benefit of not doing things quite that stupid or gross), and turn into respectable adults. Maybe I'm generous :) but I still feel like Josh has generally become a respectable adult especially considering his parents and his circumstances. And I too had such high hopes for him & Anna in DC away from his family.

 

I don't really know what Josh could possibly say other than what he said in his statement when it first broke, though, beyond a tell-all about what his parents were really like and all that, which I doubt he would do. Mostly I just hope that he & Anna are able to make some kind of decent life for themselves, and not spend it living in JB's pocketbook.

[galax-arena]

I slowly came around to liking Josh the best (after he moved to DC).

Haha, I think I only started really hating Josh after he moved to DC, because that's when he hopped in bed with the FRC. Obviously he had the same anti-LGBT views before then, but back then he was just part of the faceless Duggar horde, so I didn't hold any special enmity for Josh in particular. But then he joined Hatemongers R Us and stepped out from Jim Bob's shadow and began mouthing off pompously about what a threat LGBT people were to society and it's like my default setting for Josh quickly turned to "STFU and STFD."

 

So, like, even if it weren't for the molestation, I'd want Josh to feel like shit about moving from DC to Arkansas. (Never mind the fact that if it weren't for the molestation, Josh would still be in DC. I don't need that sort of stinkin' logic.) 

[Marigny]

I expect the family to fragment, maybe not next week but eventually.

 

I think money (or lack thereof, to be precise) will be their primary downfall. Educated speculation says that TLC paid the family one check that went into the Duggar Trust to be divvied up and doled out by JB. (Those engaged/married get their own TLC contracts/checks). What's a mystery is how JB doles out the pot o' TLC cash. Equally between all family members? Based on screen time? Based on fan popularity and ratings? According to need? Allowances? Do Duggar males earn more than females? Have JB + M been sucking off 'management' fees a la Kris Jenner? So, so, SO many ways to feel resentful and shortchanged in hindsight, once, as you say, scarcity sets in.

Just speculation but, if the TLC contracts are set up similarly to how they are for the housewives shows on another network, that may not be the case. On those shows, the husbands don't get paid for their appearances/have contracts. Several husbands have been public about this. I do agree with your assumption that JB set up a "Duggar, LLC" entity, all the money goes into one pot, he has all of the children that are of age listed as "employees," leaving "Duggar, Inc" responsible for paying the "employees. It wouldn't surprise me if he found a way to make the "LLC" a "ministry" for tax purposes, either. I'm guessing that a separate check only comes into play when their are VSEs or spin offs, hence Benessa's visit to the TLC offices. I highly doubt that even Josh was getting a separate check. 

[Maizie131]

I saw an article from OK Magazine (sorry, can't copy the link due to computer issue) that showed Josh & Anna w/in past week @ a DC airport w/the kids.  No question Josh has lost a considerable amount of weight.  Maybe someone can post the photo?  Apologize if already done in earlier post.

[Sew Sumi]

I spent almost all of one pregnancy in Germany and had to move (Army family) to Missouri where I delivered. Since Anna isn't really high risk (like I am to the extreme) it's actually really easy to switch medical records and people. The big issue is midwives generally collect a large sum of money to 'rent' your space around your due date so they're not booked and it's typically done in installments. To find someone last minute they need to ensure the person isn't already booked, they have the cash to do it, and they meet up asap about their wishes and expectations. It's not that difficult of a process, tbh. 

Thanks. I know that Marsha Jackson is a CNM, and her record keeping is certainly top-notch. I just kind of wondered about the other end, especially given what we now know about Vanessa Giron. Would their records be held to the same standards as an OBGYN's or CNM's offfice? I just can't help but be a bit skeptical; my concern is for Anna, especially given the stress she has been under for the past three weeks. 

[Sew Sumi]

I saw an article from OK Magazine (sorry, can't copy the link due to computer issue) that showed Josh & Anna w/in past week @ a DC airport w/the kids.  No question Josh has lost a considerable amount of weight.  Maybe someone can post the photo?  Apologize if already done in earlier post.

The pic, I believe, was taken when they arrived back in DC after the scandal broke. (eta: I remember that escalator behind them from the other pics with Anna in it. This also shows how detatched Anna was from Josh). Other pics confirm that the Duggar boys are working on his house, or were whenever the aerial shots were taken. 

 

http://okmagazine.com/photos/josh-duggar-moving-buy-news-home-arkansas-molestation-scandal/photo/1001265538/

Edited June 9, 2015 by Sew Sumi

[msblossom]

Yeah I just meant that if they, in particular JB &M, had been truthful and had not attempted to cover all this up that they would have all had a better outcome. Lying, hiding, and covering the truth never works. Even when this came out, they had a opportunity to own their mistakes, speak the truth and humble themselves, and take their lumps. Even if it's ugly, there's a certain amount of honor in that. Over time, people will forgive that stuff and give a person a second chance. I know I would, or at least I'd like to think I would. I've been on the other side and as hard as it is to face your mistakes and take responsibility for bad choices -- it's always the right thing to do and in the end I've yet to regret it. Second chances aren't a given, but that's not really the motivation in the first place.

[Marigny]

I know we're all being snarky in regards to who is to "blame", but whenever I hear a Duggar mention the Liberal Media as being to blame, I just envision Rachel Maddow grabbing Josh's hand, and we all know *that* would never happen.

 

I just got a mental picture of this and it made me smile bigger than The Grinch. 

[silverspoons]

Is this evidence that TLC is still providing for them?

No, Kate Gosselin had security in her contract for a few months after filming ended. Mama June was assigned security for a month after the show was cancelled. Whatever you think of June, her house was right on a main street and the paps were yelling at her and her kids so TLC promised her security for her family's safety. I can see TLC making sure pregnant Anna had a safe move. Steve the bodyguard lives in Maryland so it was easy to send him over.

 

Most TLC reality stars do not want full time security. I believe Kate Gosselin had demands of near full time security in her contract while filming.  Other like the little couple have had security on their overseas trips. Steve can be seen in the background when they adopted Will.

[GEML]

And the security is more likely to keep photographers away than it is about real threats to them as people. Although I'm sure Kate Gosslin thought otherwise. :)

[msblossom]

Haha, I think I only started really hating Josh after he moved to DC, because that's when he hopped in bed with the FRC. Obviously he had the same anti-LGBT views before then, but back then he was just part of the faceless Duggar horde, so I didn't hold any special enmity for Josh in particular. But then he joined Hatemongers R Us and stepped out from Jim Bob's shadow and began mouthing off pompously about what a threat LGBT people were to society and it's like my default setting for Josh quickly turned to "STFU and STFD."

I get what you're saying, although that was never part of the show. I didn't keep up with Josh or the Duggar's politics outside of the show except on this forum. As a registered Independent, yet evangelical Christian, I do espouse some fairly conservative, yet open-minded values but I do not share the vehement hate -- I love the LGBT community and I think many Christians and politicians are waaay off base and ugly in their characterization, approach and understanding. Sorry to get off on that tangent, but suffice it to say, imo, I found Josh to be more likeable on the show as he put further distance between himself & the Duggars.

Edited for spelling and punctuation.

Edited June 9, 2015 by msblossom

[JenCarroll]

I found Josh to be more likeable on the show as he put further distance between himself & the Duggars.

Well, so did I in a way, but then I'd keep remembering what he was actually doing in DC, and that made it hard to develop any real affection. I had some hopes for Anna, though, poor girl.