Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Bella]

The mods have talked about this and decided that if Jim Bob and Michelle did what they are accused of with the rods and all, it is definitely child abuse.  But since we don't have solid proof, we should not use the term in that regard.

 

Also, this is the Josh and Anna thread. Jim Bob and Michelle should be discussed in their own thread.

 

Thanks!

[Happyfatchick]

He also gained seven hundred pounds.

 

But yeah, Josh Duggar's "charm" has always come across as painstakingly rehearsed. Every single line he has ever said on that show sounds like he practiced it all day and they probably had to do ten or twelve takes before it came across as genuine enough.

That's because he strayed from his mantra: "you'll have to talk with my dad."

[galax-arena]

I also googled Tony Perkins. [a blond confession: I thought Tony Perkins had very dark hair, a skinny face, plastic hair, REALLY big teeth,

 

 

You rang? 

Edited June 1, 2015 by galax-arena

[GEML]

Ok, but if we are going to say that Jim Bob and Michelle are abusive, are we pretty much prepared to say that nearly all Amish, and quite a few Orthodox Jewish families (to pull two fairly well respected fundamentalist groups out of a hat) are also abusive? Both deny a robust education to their children. The discipline methods of the Pearl book were based significantly on Amish methods. Both groups often have families so large individual children do not get the attention they need....

I think it's one thing to say this is not an ideal environment in which we would choose to raise a child. But if we cite the Duggars for abuse, we open a BIG can of worms.

[sometimesy]

I heard an attorney on tv say that any minor child has until they are 21 years old to file suit.  

Didn't a minor request the statement to be destroyed? That probably ends that law suit.

 

Wouldn't it be something if the Duggars actually sued law enforcement for not taking action when they brought Josh in. ($$$)

[3 is enough]

To me, Josh and his pontificating have always come across as false bravado.  I think he was painfully aware of his lack of education, and tried to make up for it with his fancy speeches, and using big words (often in the improper context).  That probably only got worse when he started at the FRC , and even when he worked for Rick Santorum during the last campaign, because he was surrounded by educated co-workers, and he knew they were making fun of him behind his back.

 

In hindsight, the pompousness also probably came from his fear of  his secret coming out.  Working in DC, he had to know that skeletons in closets ALWAYS come to light eventually. The stress certainly took a toll on him physically, and I would wager that might be part of the reason he didn't appear to be thrilled about the prospect of M4- he wasn't sure how long he had before his secret came out and the gravy train ended.  

 

Not excusing his actions at all, but I imagine his life has not been very pleasant, and he could have benefited greatly from proper counselling. If nothing else, to realize just what hell he put his victims through, and that they do not have to forgive him.

[galax-arena]

Ok, but if we are going to say that Jim Bob and Michelle are abusive, are we pretty much prepared to say that nearly all Amish, and quite a few Orthodox Jewish families (to pull two fairly well respected fundamentalist groups out of a hat) are also abusive?

I think certain practices common among those groups are abusive, yes. I really can't stand how the Amish in particular are often romanticized within the larger mainstream culture. (I don't necessarily dislike the Amish, btw, just the whole "omg they're so pure and holy and a throwback to simpler times and a Christ-like example to us all!!" attitude that so many of us have is completely misguided IMO.) 

Edited June 1, 2015 by galax-arena

[zoomama]

first time posting here but looong time reader. don't know how to copy another post in a box like you guys do so this is my best effort, for now:

 

'To me, Josh and his pontificating have always come across as false bravado.  I think he was painfully aware of his lack of education, and tried to make up for it with his fancy speeches, and using big words (often in the improper context).'

 

i do think this is acccurate. in fact, there is much on this forum that i believe is right on the money. as for josh, i think his guilt and embarrassment may have led to his unhealthy lifestyle (eating) as well as what happened when he was a teen. i do not release him from responsibility but i do see where the only examples he had were two very sexually active parents both in the bedroom and blatantly in his face in their daily life.

 

as for the girls involved in this, i am so desperetly sad for them. i pray that they will realize their innocence in this mess and move forward with positive life changes. i think about them every day and wonder how they are. i know, from experience, that it takes years and years to recover from molestation to the point that it does not cross your mind every single day.

[GEML]

I'm another who thinks Josh was always overcompensating. Washington DC is a BRUTAL city. It literally chews up and spits out hundreds of people every day. (I say this as someone who got kicked to the curb twice before my husband and I "made it."). Coming from nothing to DC is HARD. I know people are going to say he had his TV show and his name, but in a lot of ways that was a disadvantage in DC. I bet he wished every day he had a degree from Patrick Henry and no TV show.

And knowing this was out there? No wonder he looked sick and exhausted. He learned quickly enough his Dad was a nobody in DC. If this came out, he was done. (Which is exactly what happened.)

[BitterApple]

In hindsight, the pompousness also probably came from his fear of his secret coming out. Working in DC, he had to know that skeletons in closets ALWAYS come to light eventually. The stress certainly took a toll on him physically, and I would wager that might be part of the reason he didn't appear to be thrilled about the prospect of M4- he wasn't sure how long he had before his secret came out and the gravy train ended.

It begs the question, why the hell did he take the job in the first place? Given that politics is such a dirty business, he HAD to know this would blow up in his face eventually. If he were still Josh Duggar:Used Car Salesman I don't think we'd be here right now.

[GEML]

I don't think anyone knows how brutal DC is until you live there. Not really.

[questionfear]

Ok, but if we are going to say that Jim Bob and Michelle are abusive, are we pretty much prepared to say that nearly all Amish, and quite a few Orthodox Jewish families (to pull two fairly well respected fundamentalist groups out of a hat) are also abusive? Both deny a robust education to their children. The discipline methods of the Pearl book were based significantly on Amish methods. Both groups often have families so large individual children do not get the attention they need....

I think it's one thing to say this is not an ideal environment in which we would choose to raise a child. But if we cite the Duggars for abuse, we open a BIG can of worms.

I don't know much about the Amish or fundie christianity. But bear in mind when you talk about the Orthodox you're likely referring to the fringier edges of Hassidim, which doesn't reflect Orthodox Judaism or Judaism in general.

 

As an overall rule of thumb, Judaism expects a certain level of intellectual curiosity and education. If the Duggar kids were jewish, they'd all likely be fluent in hebrew as well as english, and possibly yiddish as well depending on their family.

But any further discussion can go to the religion thread. 

[GEML]

But neither does Gothardism reflect Protestant Fundamentalism in general. It always comes down the fringe sects. Even the Amish have their fringe sects within their subculture.

[3 is enough]

 

It begs the question, why the hell did he take the job in the first place? Given that politics is such a dirty business, he HAD to know this would blow up in his face eventually. If he were still Josh Duggar:Used Car Salesman I don't think we'd be here right now.

Totally agree, but who knows?  Maybe desperation to get away from dear old Dad's control won out.  It was probably really hard to support his family on the income from the car lot.  FRC comes along and offers him mega-bucks, and how can he say no?  He knows it is the best offer he will ever get, plus he leaves Jim Bob behind. He probably figured it was worth the gamble.

[msblossom]

I don't think anyone knows how brutal DC is until you live there. Not really.

My aunt lived there for 6 or 7 years and worked for a politician and loved DC, but she was single without children, and had so many interests, energy and drive -- it was the perfect match for her personality and stage in life. And I think she would have stayed there longer had she not been offered an opportunity of a lifetime in Brussels.

[ZoloftBlob]

 

Ok, but if we are going to say that Jim Bob and Michelle are abusive, are we pretty much prepared to say that nearly all Amish, and quite a few Orthodox Jewish families (to pull two fairly well respected fundamentalist groups out of a hat) are also abusive?

Well, first I consider it straight abuse/neglect on Jimbob's part that he knew his son was molesting and did nothing for a year. There's no way around that little fact - Jim knew and did nothing at all for a year. Then he sends Josh off to remodel homes and get a lecture. His daughters were living with their abuser for a year before he bothered.

 

Second, I could tell stories about the Amish and Orthodox Jews and abuse because its perfectly valid that they get away with a lot under the veneer of being quaint and religious but its off topic and I'm mostly focusing on the Gothard stuff and the actual facts (like Jimbob waiting a year and doing nothing) because this is about the Duggars not the Amish.

[GEML]

I was referring to above posts that were general saying they found the Duggars abusuve because they use strong corporeal punishment, don't offer individualized attention and deprive their children a robust education. That's a very different type of "abuse" than having a son sexually assault his sisters and not follow proper channels to get said son and daughters the help they all need.

[galax-arena]

My aunt lived there for 6 or 7 years and worked for a politician and loved DC, but she was single without children, and had so many interests, energy and drive -- it was the perfect match for her personality and stage in life.

Yeah, a close friend of mine works in DC politics and she seems to love it. It's very fitting with her personality! But unlike Josh, she is highly educated. And she's not really one for posturing and swagger; from what I know of her, I can't imagine her ever running for office or being the public face of anything, she's more content to work and do strategy behind the scenes. (Although she did appear in a documentary once about politics!) I can't imagine Josh being content to "settle" for behind-the-scenes work. I think he always liked the attention. 

 

And honestly, I don't believe he was ever worried about the secret leaking in prior years. My impression has been that he was simply filled with too much hubris to ever entertain the thought. Josh isn't unusual in that respect. Why do big-name politicians sexually harass underlings? Why do anti-gay pundits put profiles on Grindr? IMO a lot of them are just too arrogant to consider that it could backfire on them, and why not? They've managed to largely coast through life.... right up until it blows up in their faces. 

[Churchhoney]

Tiny nitpick: Kornheiser didn't say any of this on PTI (which I watch every day)--he did on his ESPN radio show. I would have positively leapt off my couch if I'd heard him defend Josh on PTI, and now I'm $&*#)@! pissed that he did on his radio show. Gross. GROSS. I cannot fathom why he would even go there--especially after the trouble he got in by commenting on Hannah Storm's clothing (also on his radio show).

 

Stick to sports, Tony.

 

He's not that smart about sports either.

 

Just sayin.

Let's face it if the story was really going to be about Josh Duggar he'd be in on the interview.  After all he is a married man with children of his own.  If the purpose of the interview was anything other than an opportunity for the Duggar family (i.e. Jim Bob and Michelle) to whitewash themselves and try to salvage their reputation and their careers he'd have been involved.

 

Exactly. A married man, with children of his own, who, until very recently, held a highly influential position in which he potentially wielded influence to mold the opinion of millions and potentially shape public policy -- much of it involving families, ethics and morality -- at the national level.

 

Yeah. I think that's a person who probably ought to do his own interviews.

[GEML]

Don't get me wrong - I loved being in DC. There is no city like it in the world. But it's also a city filled with people who are all "the smartest people in the room" and have been told since birth they are incredible, talented, brilliant and unusually gifted people. Put all those Type A people in a room and BOOM! Ego explosions are inevitable. You learn to dish it out, and yes, you learn to take it.

And no one ever expects their own messes to come back to haunt them. That's the beauty of it. Josh's story is a juicy one, but it's only one in a long list of DC stories. And once again, it's not really the crime, but the coverup that brings the whole thing down.

[charmed1]

My aunt lived there for 6 or 7 years and worked for a politician and loved DC, but she was single without children, and had so many interests, energy and drive -- it was the perfect match for her personality and stage in life. And I think she would have stayed there longer had she not been offered an opportunity of a lifetime in Brussels.

Your aunt sounds awesome and as a Washingtonian, I'm so glad that she came here and soaked up so much of the rich culture that there is here. There is Federal Washington and there is DC. Not many people know how to differentiate the two. Sounds like she got a lot of both and that's the best thing about living in this city.

I expressed anger early on when Josh was handed this cushy job with no experience and no education while there are so many DC NATIVES who are unemployed and rejected for employment for non-violent offenses. Now that I know that this undereducated bumpkin is also a child molester, I'm 10 times as angry! There are good people here with actual roots in this city who really did make stupid mistakes in their youth not even on the level of sexually violating another human being, yet they're deemed unemployable. Or only eligible for some 10 dollar an hour job way out in Virginia when it costs them 12 dollars a day just to commute back and forth every day. And they're expected to just suck it up and be thankful for the opportunity. And while DC General is swelling with homeless families, they're offered only $2000 a month for housing vouchers, but nobody is willing to even rent their crappy one bedroom basement for less than $2,500.

But this pudgy little disgusting geek can come here with a job handed to him on a platter and get paid good money for spreading hateful messages about people who've done nothing to him, all the while, he knows he's committed these unspeakable acts. That is what I hate about Josh Duggar and everything he stands for.

[Churchhoney]

It begs the question, why the hell did he take the job in the first place? Given that politics is such a dirty business, he HAD to know this would blow up in his face eventually. If he were still Josh Duggar:Used Car Salesman I don't think we'd be here right now.

 

Well, I'm sure he didn't know it until he arrived . It's not a city that gives up its secrets to anyone until that person tries to gain entry, really. When you try to explain to somebody who hasn't tried to get through the door just how hard it is to do it and how risky it can be, they generally don't believe you. It's really the equivalent of making it in Hollywood or in NYC business and finance. Just because it used to look like a sleepy southern backwater doesn't mean it is.

 

And Josh D came up as a completely uneducated, inexperienced guy from the boondocks who'd been given every reason to believe that he was the next big thing and, in fact, Teflon. Once he was in his position, though, he probably saw a few things that demonstrated how precarious a position like his could be. And then he started eating more comfort food, I would guess.

[GEML]

But no DC native, no matter how talented, could have been an outreach person for ultra fundamentalist subcultures on behalf of the Republican Party. Josh really did have a niche that very few people could fill, and being angry that he had the talent, background and yes, ability to fill that doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't be disgusted by what he did.

In politics, people fill niches all the time. I don't hold it against him that he filled that niche. There are niches in my own party that even I can't fill. No shame in that.

[Morgalisa]

 

And once again, it's not really the crime, but the coverup that brings the whole thing down.

 

Or taxes.  Sometimes people don't go to jail for the crimes they commit, but the IRS will take them down.  How's Josh doing with that tax situation?

[SometimesBites]

To me, Josh and his pontificating have always come across as false bravado.  I think he was painfully aware of his lack of education, and tried to make up for it with his fancy speeches, and using big words (often in the improper context). 

I've always had a very different reaction to Josh. From the very first moment I saw him on camera I read him as incredibly arrogant--and too stupid to know how stupid he actually is. Even watching their first special, Josh made my skin crawl, and my radar was screaming RELIGIOUS MALE PRIVILEGE. I once worked in the law office of two men who belong to (yet another) religion in which men are the "real people" and women exist to function as their support staff. Even though both of these guys were "nice" men, their sense of rightful dominance just oozed off them. Like Josh, they were raised from the cradle to believe that they have a grand, god-ordained destiny, and their psyches are full to the brim with their own magnanimous wisdom and super-specialness. (Even though, compared to REAL MEN these fundie losers are often dorky, simplistic, and not terribly attractive. *cough- Jim Bob*)

[mangosplums]

I've always had a very different reaction to Josh. From the very first moment I saw him on camera I read him as incredibly arrogant--and too stupid to know how stupid he actually is. Even watching their first special, Josh made my skin crawl, and my radar was screaming RELIGIOUS MALE PRIVILEGE. I once worked in the law office of two men who belong to (yet another) religion in which men are the "real people" and women exist to function as their support staff. Even though both of these guys were "nice" men, their sense of rightful dominance just oozed off them. Like Josh, they were raised from the cradle to believe that they have a grand, god-ordained destiny, and their psyches are full to the brim with their own magnanimous wisdom and super-specialness. (Even though, compared to REAL MEN these fundie losers are often dorky, simplistic, and not terribly attractive. *cough- Jim Bob*)

 

This, this, this, this, this! From the second you see him you can tell this. He's one of those idiot douches that you can tell is naturally that way. I think he'd be one no matter what upbringing he had, though his upbringing makes it way worse. Some men are just naturally like that.

[merylinkid]

Josh came from little old Arkansas where he was a big fish in a small pond.   His dad had told him all his life how wonderful dear old dad was until "sin in the camp" derailed his ride to world domination.   Josh was told he was the chosen one and that "sin of the camp" was behind him.    With no education and little contact with the wider world, he had no idea how skewed his view was.   He thought he was being handed this cushy job because he was so wonderful and important.   And quite frankly who could blame him.   Aswesome job with little work but lots of perks and money?    Of course he believed it was because of how wonderful he was.   

 

Also, I think Dad got him the job -- even as competitive as dad is -- in order to expand his empire.   My son the lobbyist.   Next step the White House.   And Dad is too stupid to realize that their dumb yokel routine does not play well on a larger stage.

 

Both of them got a big surprise to find out that DC expects an education -- no matter where you are on the political scale -- and drive, and ambition.   That Duggar time is extremely frowned up on in a city where people get up at 5 am. go to work and get home around 2 am.  

[Churchhoney]

I've always had a very different reaction to Josh. From the very first moment I saw him on camera I read him as incredibly arrogant--and too stupid to know how stupid he actually is. Even watching their first special, Josh made my skin crawl, and my radar was screaming RELIGIOUS MALE PRIVILEGE. I once worked in the law office of two men who belong to (yet another) religion in which men are the "real people" and women exist to function as their support staff. Even though both of these guys were "nice" men, their sense of rightful dominance just oozed off them. Like Josh, they were raised from the cradle to believe that they have a grand, god-ordained destiny, and their psyches are full to the brim with their own magnanimous wisdom and super-specialness. (Even though, compared to REAL MEN these fundie losers are often dorky, simplistic, and not terribly attractive. *cough- Jim Bob*)

 

I only recently saw for the first time an early Duggar episode that featured Josh, and I was very struck by his air of privilege and arrogance, which I found odd and very offputting in a young kid. The same reaction to Josh as you're describing, in other words.

 

But I have seen him pretty often in the present day as the FRC spokesperson, and I've seen a tiny bit of him on the show. And during that time, he's seemed -- to me, anyway -- to be shakier. Arrogant, yes, but with hints of being a little less assured than he was pretending. I have read that as being some doubt creeping in to his psyche, as he learned a little bit more about what the world was like outside of Duggar castle where he was the crown prince.

 

That could be entirely reading in, of course.

[GEML]

I don't for a second believe Jim Bob got him the job. First, Jim Bob's political connections were far worse than Josh's. People who actually liked Josh didn't like Jim Bob. Secondly, the Duggars are nobody in DC. I know they all mean a lot to us here, but they aren't even C list in DC. Even at their height they could barely get a small audience at CPAC (in part organized by their own son) and politicians weren't always thrilled about having their support.

Do I think Josh planned to run for office? Yes. But this might even have been in spite of JimBob, not because of him. Jim Bob's foray into politics was BRUTAL. He likely knew Josh was in for trouble, and that it could take them all down.

And, indeed, it might.

[hendersonrocks]

Both of them got a big surprise to find out that DC expects an education -- no matter where you are on the political scale -- and drive, and ambition.   That Duggar time is extremely frowned up on in a city where people get up at 5 am. go to work and get home around 2 am.

 

I agree wholeheartedly about the need for insane drive and ambition to thrive in DC, but there are some seriously notable examples of successful political folk who don't meet the education expectation. (Karl Rove and Scott Walker, for example--I mean, they have more post-graduate education than Josh does in that they took some post-HS coursework along the way, but they still don't have bachelor's degrees. A quick search of The Google shows 28 of the 535 current members of Congress don't have bachelor's degrees.)

 

All that is to say, I think if Josh did have drive, ambition, and some natural skill he'd be fine in DC without a degree--but he's like 0-for-everything.

[JoanArc]

 

Or taxes.  Sometimes people don't go to jail for the crimes they commit, but the IRS will take them down.  How's Josh doing with that tax situation?

He paid it off a couple weeks before the scandal.

[Granny58]

I think certain practices common among those groups are abusive, yes. I really can't stand how the Amish in particular are often romanticized within the larger mainstream culture. (I don't necessarily dislike the Amish, btw, just the whole "omg they're so pure and holy and a throwback to simpler times and a Christ-like example to us all!!" attitude that so many of us have is completely misguided IMO.) 

I think I love you.  The Amish piss me off.  

[Marigold]

I am still amazed that Josh took such a visible job in politics.  Everyone knows that politics is a blood sport. Did he really think this wouldn't leak out? I'm stunned at the ignorance. 

If I were Josh, I would've kept sweet in Arkansas!  He had a nice deal going. He won't even be able to go back to selling used cars now.  

What a foolish move.  Well, not the first time, I guess. Politicians often do outrageous things and never think they will get caught or the behavior leaked to the press. It always shocks the rest of us...the lack of common sense. Duh. 

[GEML]

One of the smartest political operatives I know only has a HS diploma. Yes, DC is a city that runs on Ivy League degrees, but it mostly needs you to be smart. The Ivy League degrees are a short cut way of proving that, but it's not the only way. There's also political smart and academic smart, which aren't the same. Then there is niche smart and general smart. Josh had a form of niche smart - and with some time and drive, I think he could have made it. He would need to work twice as hard as some other people, but others have done it.

But he completely blew the niche chance. He sowed the wind and reaped the whirlwind.

[Celia Rubenstein]

Let's face it if the story was really going to be about Josh Duggar he'd be in on the interview.  After all he is a married man with children of his own.  If the purpose of the interview was anything other than an opportunity for the Duggar family (i.e. Jim Bob and Michelle) to whitewash themselves and try to salvage their reputation and their careers he'd have been involved.

Exactly. A married man, with children of his own, who, until very recently, held a highly influential position in which he potentially wielded influence to mold the opinion of millions and potentially shape public policy -- much of it involving families, ethics and morality -- at the national level.

 

Yeah. I think that's a person who probably ought to do his own interviews.

 

ITA.

 

But Josh didn't answer for his crimes then.  He's not about to answer for them now.  He'll leave that for his mommy and daddy to deal with.  Not that they will really answer for anything, either.  I think all they care about now is saving their TV show.

 

I wonder if TLC had already canceled the show, would Jim Bob and Michelle even be bothering with this interview?  

[Aja]

But this pudgy little disgusting geek can come here with a job handed to him on a platter and get paid good money for spreading hateful messages about people who've done nothing to him, all the while, he knows he's committed these unspeakable acts. That is what I hate about Josh Duggar and everything he stands for.

 

So succinct. So beautiful. This, to me, is also the crux of the entire disgusting mess. It's also what the leghumpers are COMPLETELY missing (since I guess child molestation isn't enough to get them to stop leghumping.)

Edited June 1, 2015 by Aja

[charmed1]

Yes but Rove and Walker are also considerably older than Josh and a generation or two ago, having a high school diploma was sufficient. The likelihood of someone with his lack of everything and his age getting a job making that kind of money in this town is highly unlikely. The competition is just too high. There are people with master's degrees willing to wait tables. I had to finish my degree late, and worked among other jobs, as an administrative assistant. Every admin job I applied to required a bachelor's degree and I was turned down by quite a few just for that reason. I remember applying for an admin job at one of the Big 4 and had to do a panel interview with about six different people. I got to the end and one guy noticed my resume said my degree was in progress. They told me good luck and come back when you finish your degree. Ouch.

The best job that the average 27 year old with Josh's experience and education in DC or Maryland could get would be a job in the mall. And those kids have more education than he has.

[farmgal4]

It begs the question, why the hell did he take the job in the first place? Given that politics is such a dirty business, he HAD to know this would blow up in his face eventually. If he were still Josh Duggar:Used Car Salesman I don't think we'd be here right now.

To answer your question: EGO

[JoanArc]

I'm sure Josh's FRC coworkers have some major gag orders, not to mention common sense, but I'd LOVE to hear the stories they have about Josh. Not pretty. I wonder if this scandal really shocked anyone who knows him well.

 

On another note, he really should've deleted his instagram. There's a lot of pics of him around kids and underage (teenage) girls. It looks so creepy...

 

Edit: Ecclesia College still lists Josh on the board of regents. Lols....

Edited June 1, 2015 by JoanArc

[jschoolgirl]

Coming from nothing to DC is HARD.

------------

Damned right, and I did it. I came here for college in 1976 from a NYS hamlet as a first-gen high school graduate. College was a terrible culture shock, but I stayed. Due to my intelligence, if I may say so, and my physical stamina, I got political jobs and my first Hill job *without* a bachelor's. I will say that 30 years ago when that happened, there were more people without a college degree. But I was ripped on to my face for not having one. Still, then and now, a bachelor's is considered what a high school diploma would be to the Greatest Generation.

Like Josh, I come from the country, and when I code-switch, I use folksy talk like Josh. But unlike Josh, I had a high school diploma, a wide vocabulary, and was (am) a voracious reader. Josh is not sufficiently educated and culturally literate to move in policy and poltical cirlces. I wonder if he even realizes it?

Edited June 1, 2015 by jschoolgirl

[farmgal4]

ITA.

 

But Josh didn't answer for his crimes then.  He's not about to answer for them now.  He'll leave that for his mommy and daddy to deal with.  Not that they will really answer for anything, either.  I think all they care about now is saving their TV show.

 

I wonder if TLC had already canceled the show, would Jim Bob and Michelle even be bothering with this interview?

I think if TLC drops them, they will start looking elsewhere, probably starting with the UP network which features the Bates family. Speaking of the Bates, I wonder if there has been any correspondence between the Duggars and Bates since this whole mess started? I watch the Bates show pretty often, and I've really grown to like that family a lot.

[AnJen]

I would love to hear JimBob or Michelle, or Josh himself, address why he felt it was acceptable to molest his sisters rather than just masturbate in the shower.

 

That's the one part of this story I can't get over; all sexual sins are the same in their eyes. I mean dancing or impure thoughts or actual sex...it's all the same to them. So why, when he made a "mistake" did he choose the mistake that involved anyone else, especially his as-young-as-5-years-old siblings? 

 

I specifically remember in one of the early shows, they specifically mentioned that the bathroom should be locked when in use (toilet/shower time), and that no one was allowed to be in the bathroom at the same time. I remember that it stuck out to me as super weird...my family has normal boundaries, but if you're in the shower and someone needs in the bathroom, we'll just unlock the door and go in. It seemed so strange and puritanical to me, that the scene always stuck with me.

 

I just can't wrap my head around a situation that doesn't point to sexual predator...at 14 you possess enough logic and understanding of consequences to help you make/not make a decision. He had to know that he was infinitely more likely to get caught at molesting his sisters than he would at masturbating. Even if he only ever intended to touch them in their sleep, he HAD to have known the odds of getting caught...yet he still chose to do it. To me, that says it wasn't about a sexual urge. He could have jerked it out in the shower and no one would've been the wiser, and more importantly, no one would have been hurt by that. 

 

This is the thing that bothers me, and I haven't really seen this discussed. I've seen (here and other places) where people have mentioned that if he were a normal kid who had been allowed to have a girlfriend or to masturbate that this wouldn't have happened, but from everything I've seen, he chose molestation over masturbation.

Edited June 1, 2015 by AnJen

[Sunnybobs]

I think he took the job because he was bored out of his head not selling cars in Arkansas - look back at his earliest Instagram feeds, it's all fast food pics, weather pics & some half hearted attempts to be political. That man was utterly bored with life. I don't actually think he's unintelligent though thanks to his parents is woefully uneducated- the job at a FRC must have appeared like manna from heaven to him. Also who really thinks they're going to get pulled up on stuff they did when they were 14, have probably assumed had been hidden and of course "in his head" was a forgiven and redeemed mistake. He must have seen that job and move as his escape route and goodness knows what he & Anna think now.

[Churchhoney]

ITA.

 

But Josh didn't answer for his crimes then.  He's not about to answer for them now.  He'll leave that for his mommy and daddy to deal with.  Not that they will really answer for anything, either.  I think all they care about now is saving their TV show.

 

I wonder if TLC had already canceled the show, would Jim Bob and Michelle even be bothering with this interview?  

 

Only too true.

[GEML]

I think the FRC job was his dream job. A chance to break into DC without credentials? He's always loved politics. We who do are strange creatures. I'd have leapt at that chance at his age.

And again, I just finished up 20 years in DC doing politics myself. (Mostly in VA). One of the smartest, and youngest operatives I know has a HS diploma. It is still done. But yes, almost incredible physical stamina is required. Josh didn't have that. I didn't either. That's one of the reasons I had to get out. (I have a BA, for what that's worth.)

[hwarner]

I would love to hear JimBob or Michelle, or Josh himself, address why he felt it was acceptable to molest his sisters rather than just masturbate in the shower.

 

That's the one part of this story I can't get over; all sexual sins are the same in their eyes. I mean dancing or impure thoughts or actual sex...it's all the same to them. So why, when he made a "mistake" did he choose the mistake that involved anyone else, especially his as-young-as-5-years-old siblings? 

 

I specifically remember in one of the early shows, they specifically mentioned that the bathroom should be locked when in use (toilet/shower time), and that no one was allowed to be in the bathroom at the same time. I remember that it stuck out to me as super weird...my family has normal boundaries, but if you're in the shower and someone needs in the bathroom, we'll just unlock the door and go in. It seemed so strange and puritanical to me, that the scene always stuck with me.

 

I just can't wrap my head around a situation that doesn't point to sexual predator...at 14 you possess enough logic and understanding of consequences to help you make/not make a decision. He had to know that he was infinitely more likely to get caught at molesting his sisters than he would at masturbating. Even if he only ever intended to touch them in their sleep, he HAD to have known the odds of getting caught...yet he still chose to do it. To me, that says it wasn't about a sexual urge. He could have jerked it out in the shower and no one would've been the wiser, and more importantly, no one would have been hurt by that. 

 

This is the thing that bothers me, and I haven't really seen this discussed. I've seen (here and other places) where people have mentioned that if he were a normal kid who had been allowed to have a girlfriend or to masturbate that this wouldn't have happened, but from everything I've seen, he chose molestation over masturbation.

This is an excellent point. Well said!

[GeeGolly]

I assume that Josh took the FRC job with some trepidation about his past being revealed. I also assume that the Duggar family believed that juvenile records would remain sealed. It is my understanding that both criminal and DCF records regarding minors are not supposed to be made public.

[GEML]

On the shower issue - we are assuming he was permitted shower privacy.

[bencr]

 

 

 

This chart shows how Fox News is nothing but a shill for the Duggar family. Specifically, as this chart shows, Fox didn't report the story when it first broke, presumably because it reflects badly on the Duggars and their conservative values. Yet, Fox News is giving the family two hours to make their case to the American public. This is why I never read a news story that is sourced as Fox News ... there is an agenda behind all of their reporting.

[Wellfleet]

My aunt lived there for 6 or 7 years and worked for a politician and loved DC, but she was single without children, and had so many interests, energy and drive -- it was the perfect match for her personality and stage in life. And I think she would have stayed there longer had she not been offered an opportunity of a lifetime in Brussels.

 

Comments about how rough Washington is always make me tilt my head too. I have 6 college friends who worked there, starting in their late 20s/early 30s - 3 of whom still do, and the only time I've heard any of them use the word "brutal" was when talking about the traffic or the cost of living. For the most part they all loved it, especially all the history, culture and diversity in the area. I think any of those in other cities now would go back in a second. I can see how someone in Josh's situation - no solid education, no erudition, someone who doesn't even read or seem to have much curiosity about the world - would find it tough. But he'd find any large cosmopolitan city difficult, as well as smaller cities.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Wellfleet