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Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

maraleia

By maraleia
in Counting On

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Salacious Kitty

Salacious Kitty

24 minutes ago, SMama said:

If the unthinkable happens while FF is incarcerated the crown Prince will most likely be JD. I wonder how the remaining 18 would treat FF in a post JB world.

FF was a Mama's boy. JB's money would go to her, and she could easily bankroll FF's post-prison life if she wanted to. JD couldn't do anything about it, aside from inwardly fume.

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hoosier80
hoosier80

New show title: 10 to 20 Years and Counting 

MargeGunderson
MargeGunderson

Someone on Reddit just described Josh’s face as a glistening glazed ham. I am considering divorcing my husband and marrying that poster. 

doodlebug
doodlebug

Well, for many of us, it's the difference between 'imperfect' and 'non-PC' and being a criminal.  Josh is a child molester and his parents actively intervened in his situation to avoid him being punis

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

JB&M are younger than at least a third of us posters, so thinking of either of them near death due to age, makes me chuckle.

Its a given someone will be bankrolling the FF upon release because any money he has will go the balance of the fines he owes. Although the judge did make it sound as if J&A were flush.

Since the FF is basically unemployable I'm sure JB, M or JD, if that's the case, will create a job for him so he'll have steady income. None of the Duggars want the M&Ms to suffer.

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SMama

SMama

6 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

JB&M are younger than at least a third of us posters, so thinking of either of them near death due to age, makes me chuckle.

Its a given someone will be bankrolling the FF upon release because any money he has will go the balance of the fines he owes. Although the judge did make it sound as if J&A were flush.

Since the FF is basically unemployable I'm sure JB, M or JD, if that's the case, will create a job for him so he'll have steady income. None of the Duggars want the M&Ms to suffer.

That is why I said unthinkable because they are relatively young and in seemingly good health. 

I’m sure no one wants the Ms to suffer but there are ways to take care of Anna and the kids while completely leaving the FF out of the financial loop.

If they create a job for FF, wouldn’t that money be garnished to cover his fines?

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

4 minutes ago, SMama said:

That is why I said unthinkable because they are relatively young and in seemingly good health. 

I’m sure no one wants the Ms to suffer but there are ways to take care of Anna and the kids while completely leaving the FF out of the financial loop.

If they create a job for FF, wouldn’t that money be garnished to cover his fines?

The judge said it would not be a hardship for Josh to pay his fines, so I think the fines will be paid off upon his release.

I'm not sure any of the Duggars want their brother/son/husband/dad to be homeless and broke, so I don't think they would want to keep him out of the financial loop.

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MaryAnneSpier

MaryAnneSpier

1 hour ago, Zella said:

Yeah for whatever reason, it seems like JD, Joe, and Josiah were all found wanting and have been skipped as the Fundie Prince Who Was Promised. 

I wonder why JD isn't the new favored male. He's the next oldest after Josh and followed in the family expectations. Maybe because he courted/dated Abbie without his daddy's blessing before announcing they were engaged...? That's all I can think of. 

Zella

Zella

12 minutes ago, MaryAnneSpier said:

I wonder why JD isn't the new favored male. He's the next oldest after Josh and followed in the family expectations. Maybe because he courted/dated Abbie without his daddy's blessing before announcing they were engaged...? That's all I can think of. 

I think JD is actually disinterested in it, and my guess is Joe is too. 

Just now, Salacious Kitty said:

Jed! inherited his father's brash personality.

Yes I think this is key. JD and Joe both both seem to be more introverted--or at least less interested in attention for the sake of attention. Once upon a time, Josiah was outgoing and probably had a natural theater kid energy that may have made him better at this than either Josh or Jed!, but that's clearly been wrung out of him. So, I think you have to skip from Josh to Jed! to get someone who's at least interested enough in it and deluded enough to think he's good at it. 

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SMama

SMama

58 minutes ago, BetyBee said:

How interesting to think of the family dynamic when Josh returns. That could inspire a book that I would read! But I don't think anyone in the family would write anything that didn't describe a perfect Christian family.

Give Jill time and she may surprise you.  She has provided glimpses of her not perfect family.  

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

Talk about the heir and the spare, JD has never lived up to JB's expectations. He was quiet, a bit awkward and immature and the not so handsome duckling of the bunch of sons. JD came into his own as the FF was falling from grace, but by then neither JB or JD liked each other all that much. Poor Joe has tics and Josiah had a public 'reputation' so Jed! was it.

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crazy8s

crazy8s

I do find it interesting JB formed a new llc listed under a law firm about 2 weeks before Josh was arrested.

Not Travis story. This firm claims they specializes in estate planning. "ensuring your wishes and goals are carried out properly after your passing."

So far Shiloh Properties llc has bought every piece of land surrounding Jed!'s car lot from the JB and Meech trust. The car lot and the house Jed! and Katie live in are still owned by the JB and meech trust.

 

 

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Salacious Kitty

Salacious Kitty

19 minutes ago, crazy8s said:

I do find it interesting JB formed a new llc listed under a law firm about 2 weeks before Josh was arrested.

Not Travis story. This firm claims they specializes in estate planning. "ensuring your wishes and goals are carried out properly after your passing."

So far Shiloh Properties llc has bought every piece of land surrounding Jed!'s car lot from the JB and Meech trust. The car lot and the house Jed! and Katie live in are still owned by the JB and meech trust.

 

 

Whose trust is Shiloh Properties? I assume JB since he went to Shiloh Christian School. 

jcbrown

jcbrown

23 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Joe is also following in his father's footsteps in many ways, but he's too introverted to be the heir apparent. Jed! inherited his father's brash personality.

So Jed! is also an asshole? Never mind, I know the answer.

23 hours ago, Zella said:

I think JD is actually disinterested in it, and my guess is Joe is too. 

Yes I think this is key. JD and Joe both both seem to be more introverted--or at least less interested in attention for the sake of attention. Once upon a time, Josiah was outgoing and probably had a natural theater kid energy that may have made him better at this than either Josh or Jed!, but that's clearly been wrung out of him. So, I think you have to skip from Josh to Jed! to get someone who's at least interested enough in it and deluded enough to think he's good at it. 

Agreed. Also, free Josiah. Though I don't think he knows he needs freeing.

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FizzyPuff

FizzyPuff

Katie WOACB said that a guy came to visit Josh in prison and kissed him on the lips when he greeted him (take that with a pinch of salt if you will) apparently they were both very flirty with each other. I’m not sure if I believe this but it does sound shocking. I wonder if Anna would leave Josh if she thought he was gay? 
18:30 Is when she starts talking about this: 

 

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libgirl2

libgirl2

51 minutes ago, FizzyPuff said:

Katie WOACB said that a guy came to visit Josh in prison and kissed him on the lips when he greeted him (take that with a pinch of salt if you will) apparently they were both very flirty with each other. I’m not sure if I believe this but it does sound shocking. I wonder if Anna would leave Josh if she thought he was gay? 
18:30 Is when she starts talking about this: 

 

I don't think I believe that but with FF anything is possible. 

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SMama

SMama

1 minute ago, libgirl2 said:

I don't think I believe that but with FF anything is possible. 

I’m with you but must admit that the tale getting out there will probably make JB furious because he no longer controls the narrative. I’m all in on anything that makes JB and Michelle uncomfortable, helpless, ashamed. It’s a small price to pay for how they screwed up 19 kids. 

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mimionthebeach

mimionthebeach

On 1/16/2023 at 9:01 AM, GeeGolly said:

Talk about the heir and the spare, JD has never lived up to JB's expectations. He was quiet, a bit awkward and immature and the not so handsome duckling of the bunch of sons. JD came into his own as the FF was falling from grace, but by then neither JB or JD liked each other all that much. Poor Joe has tics and Josiah had a public 'reputation' so Jed! was it.

Joe also has "problematic" in-laws, to whom he had proved very generous. No way JB wasn't any party of his empire to fall into Caldwell hands. 

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Salacious Kitty

Salacious Kitty

(edited)
3 hours ago, mimionthebeach said:

Joe also has "problematic" in-laws, to whom he had proved very generous. No way JB wasn't any party of his empire to fall into Caldwell hands. 

The Caldwells were spotted at the Duggar Fall Festival (or whatever the hell they call it). It appears that the patriarchs have set aside their differences.

Edited by Salacious Kitty
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dariafan

dariafan

On 1/15/2023 at 6:43 PM, GeeGolly said:

JB&M are younger than at least a third of us posters, so thinking of either of them near death due to age, makes me chuckle.

Its a given someone will be bankrolling the FF upon release because any money he has will go the balance of the fines he owes. Although the judge did make it sound as if J&A were flush.

Since the FF is basically unemployable I'm sure JB, M or JD, if that's the case, will create a job for him so he'll have steady income. None of the Duggars want the M&Ms to suffer.

They just seem So much older than they are.  Plus all that sodium in their diet doesn’t help 

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quarks

quarks

On 1/26/2023 at 12:04 PM, Stevie Nicks said:

I'm surprised that Jim Blob is still bankrolling lawyers for the FF. I would have thought that he would have given up and just let him do his sentence. 

It's possible - not likely - but possible - that Anna and Josh are funding this by liquidating whatever real estate properties they have left. My sense was that they paid for at least some if not all of the original defense, and it's possible that they had some remaining assets left. 

It's also possible that Josh, Anna and JB are financing at least part of this by asking other families for donations, saying that this is part of fighting for the Lord against false persecution. As per the feds, Josh was saying this during the investigation/after his arrest, and seems to have convinced at least Anna and the neighbors who wrote those not overly convincing letters on his behalf to the judge. So a few people may have been convinced to hand over some money. I mean, these are the same people that thought it was a good idea to send people to Ukraine in the middle of a war to deliver medical supplies (in theory) without any plan of how to get those medical supplies to Poland, much less Ukraine. Common sense does not seem to be one of their big things. 

And given that, it's at least possible that JB feels he has to continue supporting this appeal to maintain whatever standing he may have left in his religious community. Otherwise, he isn't fighting the false persecutions led by Satan.

All that said, I think from a purely financial viewpoint, this is only benefitting the lawyers. 

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quarks

quarks

16 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

@quarks I can also believe JB is financing this defense because of love/affection for his first born son. A parent paying for the best legal defense they can afford, when their child has been charged with a crime and faces prison time is pretty typical parental behavior IMO. 

Fair enough. My own dislike of Josh is so strong that I tend to forget that others - particularly his parents - may not see him the same way I do.

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Scarlett45

Scarlett45

1 minute ago, quarks said:

Fair enough. My own dislike of Josh is so strong that I tend to forget that others - particularly his parents - may not see him the same way I do.

Josh is a vile awful human. I can believe JB doesn’t like him much (he’s been nothing but an embarrassment for years), but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t love him or won’t take care of him. Many parents try until the very end, even if their kid is a POS.

I could see many parents (not just a JB type) paying the lawyers even if they believed their child was guilty. Lionel Dahmer stood by Jeffrey even though he never denied his guilt or claimed he was innocent. 

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Albanyguy

Albanyguy

13 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Josh is a vile awful human. I can believe JB doesn’t like him much (he’s been nothing but an embarrassment for years), but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t love him or won’t take care of him. Many parents try until the very end, even if their kid is a POS.

I could see many parents (not just a JB type) paying the lawyers even if they believed their child was guilty. Lionel Dahmer stood by Jeffrey even though he never denied his guilt or claimed he was innocent. 

Yes, and even if Jim Bob was ready to throw in the towel on Josh, I can’t believe Michelle would allow it. If it were possible for me to feel sorry for Michelle (which it isn’t), this would be the moment. Josh is one of the few kids she actually loves and the thought of him being in prison must be reducing her to an emotional wreck. I’ll bet she’s in a constant state of sobbing and rehashing the past, relieved only by heavy medication. Discontinuing the appeals process would be admitting that Josh won’t be coming home anytime soon and, more importantly, that he will never be “vindicated” by having his conviction reversed. That might just snap the last remaining threads of her sanity.

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Scarlett45

Scarlett45

36 minutes ago, Albanyguy said:

Yes, and even if Jim Bob was ready to throw in the towel on Josh, I can’t believe Michelle would allow it. If it were possible for me to feel sorry for Michelle (which it isn’t), this would be the moment. Josh is one of the few kids she actually loves and the thought of him being in prison must be reducing her to an emotional wreck. I’ll bet she’s in a constant state of sobbing and rehashing the past, relieved only by heavy medication. Discontinuing the appeals process would be admitting that Josh won’t be coming home anytime soon and, more importantly, that he will never be “vindicated” by having his conviction reversed. That might just snap the last remaining threads of her sanity.

Yes I agree with you. I do also think Josh has a typical amount of affection for Michelle as his mother (she may be the only person he actually loves in a genuine way). I blame JB and Michelle for a lot, but I don’t blame them for paying their son’s lawyers, most parents I know would do the same. Especially since it’s not as if these legal bills are taking food out of the mouths the minor kids. 

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SMama

SMama

51 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

 

Especially since it’s not as if these legal bills are taking food out of the mouths the minor kids. 

But it’s depleting the money available to the now adult siblings (except Jill) who worked hard, if not even harder for that money. It should not be pissed away on just the FF. JB and Michelle made that money on the backs of their minor kids. By themselves or with only 6 kids TLC would have never looked their way. 

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AstridM

AstridM

4 minutes ago, SMama said:

But it’s depleting the money available to the now adult siblings (except Jill) who worked hard, if not even harder for that money. It should not be pissed away on just the FF. JB and Michelle made that money on the backs of their minor kids. By themselves or with only 6 kids TLC would have never looked their way. 

I get your point, but at this point most of their kids are adults who need to start relying on themselves to make livings and support their own growing families. 

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SMama

SMama

20 minutes ago, AstridM said:

I get your point, but at this point most of their kids are adults who need to start relying on themselves to make livings and support their own growing families. 

I agree, once they are given their fair share of the money they made. 😉

Let’s not forget that JB will be supporting Anna and the innocent M’s forever, long after he is gone. Anna will never seek employment, and the FF will be unemployable once he serves his time. Too many resources funneled to just one of the 19. 
 

You are a much better person than me. 😂

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AstridM

AstridM

(edited)
8 minutes ago, SMama said:

I agree, once they are given their fair share of the money they made. 😉

Let’s not forget that JB will be supporting Anna and the innocent M’s forever, long after he is gone. Anna will never seek employment, and the FF will be unemployable once he serves his time. Too many resources funneled to just one of the 19. 
 

You are a much better person than me. 😂

True, they also have Josh’s big family to support for many years. And what if something happens to Bin or Austin? Joy and Jessa seem intent on not working and being broodmares, so then what? I wish Bin and Jessa would move closer to his parents so their daughters could see women who are able to choose to work. Less Duggar influence overall would be a net positive. 

Edited by AstridM
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Meow Mix

Meow Mix

I have no issue with them paying for Josh's lawyers for the trial or even for one appeal.  But at some point, they are going to have to cut their losses.  Even his siblings for the most part know he did what he is accused of though I am sure some still think the sentence he got was too harsh.

As for the money, I do think JB thinks he has given each kid their fair share by doling out broken down starter homes, junker vehicles, and the occasional crusty mattress out of the hoarder warehouse.  Doing that allows him to maintain control rather than giving them cash that they can spend how they like.

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BetyBee

BetyBee

Though it would have been nice for JB to put some of the TLC money away for the kids, he was apparently under no legal obligation to do so. If he and Michelle want to waste money on FF's defense and subsequent appeals, they can do so. Essentially, it's their money to waste. It's unconscionable that they prepared none of them to be educated to where they can support themselves, but they are not under any legal obligation to give their adult children a penny, unless the adult kids want to sue and become ostracized like Jill and Derick. There have always been parents who were foolish or stingy with money. There is apparently, enough money to keep them fed, clothed and housed. They all have the latest electronics and the lost boys have cars to destroy as they drive like maniacs all over the property. There are a lot of LLCs in the various kids' names, which it appears is how control freak JB keeps them in line. It's not the way I conduct my adult life with regard to my kids, but JB is what he has always been - selfish and money grubbing. Michelle checked out years ago. It's a sad story, but most of the kids seem satisfied with the status quo. JMHO.

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Gemma Violet

Gemma Violet

(edited)

I always thought Jim Bob giving his children houses was a Jim Bob thing to control them, but I was watching a video of Jinger (I think it was the one where she's interviewed by that conservative vlogger) and someone in the comment section who IIRC was a former member of the IBLP said that because Gothard preached that you must never be in debt, when it came to houses,  he proclaimed that fathers should gift houses to their children.  That way, no debt.  Which might make sense if you have a lot of money and only one or two children, but there's no way non-Duggars could afford to do that with 10 to 20 children each.  Of course, take it with a grain of salt as it was in a comment section, but I could imagine Gothard saying that.

Edited by Gemma Violet
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Bethany

Bethany

2 hours ago, Gemma Violet said:

Which might make sense if you have a lot of money and only one or two children, but there's no way non-Duggars could afford to do that with 10 to 20 children each.  Of course, take it with a grain of salt as it was in a comment section, but I could imagine Gothard saying that.

I had a message board acquaintance a few years back who as far as I know didn't follow Gothard but she did say that part of her religious beliefs was that you don't go into debt to own a house.  In her case that meant she was eternally going to be renting as she did not live in an area where you can buy a house for 50K and her father clearly didn't gift her one. I don't understand a religion (or cult) that cares whether you rent or have a mortgage - either way you are paying someone!

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Salacious Kitty

Salacious Kitty

I think Gothard deferred to his financial guru, a guy named Jim Sammons, who JB quotes religiously. He is the one responsible for the debt-free mantra. 

And one has to remember it was actually possible to do when he first proposed it back in the 80s. 

I'd be interested to know how many mortgages someone like Jason has taken out on all his flip properties. JB got him started, but he has grown his business. Likely not debt-free. 

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Zella

Zella

(edited)
1 hour ago, Elizabeth Anne said:

I don't understand a religion (or cult) that cares whether you rent or have a mortgage - either way you are paying someone!

I don't get it either, but I think a lot of it circles back to the idea of control. They're hypersensitive about anyone having perceived control over them, be it the bank, a landlord, a boss, a school, etc. 

In a former job I had to deal with a fair number of fundies, and I've never forgotten an example one of them used for financial independence. It was basically argued that a godly young man could work for his father (at his father's own business of course) and then also have a job in a "sandwich shop" for a set amount of hours each week, and that would be enough in X number of years to have enough money to pay for a house without a mortgage. [The morality of working for and with heathens at the sandwich shop was never addressed. 😂]

I live in an area that has fairly low property prices, but wages are lower here too. There's no way in hell most people here could afford a home with that model, and even if they did, I'd find it doubtful they'd have the savings they'd need to weather an actual financial emergency once they bought the house. 

Edited by Zella
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Gemma Violet

Gemma Violet

(edited)

I was watching a Duggar video on Youtube and someone in the comments section said today that they saw Anna this weekend visiting Josh along with one of the sisters (this may have been Anna's sister--see below).  He also said: the children were not there; Josh lost a little weight; Anna and Josh hugged but did not kiss; and Anna and her sister seemed shocked and startled when one of the guards and another inmate got into a shouting match.  That's pretty much it.  Take it with a grain of salt.

Edited by Gemma Violet
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ChristmasCandy

ChristmasCandy

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10 hours ago, Gemma Violet said:

WOACB says there were two visits this weekend by Anna.  Friday by herself and Saturday with her sister Pricilla.  Anna was all done up, hair and makeup.  There was an intense conversation and Josh was wiping away tears.

 

I will believe WOACB when Jesus and the Virgin Mary tell me what she said is the truth until then she is just a lying liar who lies.

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BetyBee

BetyBee

6 minutes ago, ChristmasCandy said:

I will believe WOACB when Jesus and the Virgin Mary tell me what she said is the truth until then she is just a lying liar who lies.

I agree! Although I do like to imagine that if it was true, Josh was wiping away tears as Anna told him she was divorcing him and that Priscilla came along to support Anna. But there's no way that's what happened! A girl can dream though!

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