Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[kaleidoscope]

Was money/payment involved in FF's crimes?  I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere and have wondered.

[Rabbittron]

1 hour ago, SMama said:

If the courthouse doesn’t have a back or side exit we will be treated to a very pissed off Anna leaving the building. Even if the FF only gets five years it will be the ultimate affront to AnnaBot, and she’s not keeping sweet.

Will JB stand and object to the sentence, or is his backside still burning from the spanking the judge handed him? 

Will Michelle attend and wail in dolphin squeals while her golden penis is led out of the courtroom wearing a jail jumpsuit? 

Of course Auqanet will tell the judge that he doesn't accept the sentence and he will ask the judge if he accepts the sentence.

Clown Car will not be there because it is only for men folk. 

[GeeGolly]

28 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Pardon my ignorance. Why the hold on seeing the FF? It's still a few days from Sentencing Day. And why can't they see him afterward? He'll be kept local until they find him a spot at the Fed Pen. 

I wasn't thinking about him being in holding. I think once he's moved they'll be a processing period and I believe all his visitors will have to get CORIed again and submit what ever paperwork. And I assume it may be a ways away, so its not like they can jump in a car and go see him on a whim.

[emmawoodhouse]

Oh, I agree. Chances are very high that he'll go out of state.

[Notabug]

1 hour ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Pardon my ignorance. Why the hold on seeing the FF? It's still a few days from Sentencing Day. And why can't they see him afterward? He'll be kept local until they find him a spot at the Fed Pen. 

Is the jail still on COVID restrictions?  Much of the time he's been held, they weren't letting visitors into the jail, they were doing video visits.  According to their websites, they are still doing virtual visits only.

I don't think Michelle will go to court either, not only because she's wimminfolk, but also because I don't think even JB knows how she will react to the whole thing.  She seems barely catatonic much of the time, but seeing FF in handcuffs and an orange jumpsuit and then hearing all those ungodly prosecutors say all those awful things about the Golden Prince; she could either fall to the floor in a dead faint or end up speaking in tongues.  In a very loud voice, using words we didn't think would ever cross her lips.

No matter where FF ends up incarcerated, very few people from the family will visit much, if at all.  Of course Anna will show, as will JB but probably not as much as Anna.  Michelle is not going but maybe once or twice a year and I don't see them bringing any of their under 18's along. I don't see any of his sisters visiting, even if the fed was in their back yards.  Even his brothers will visit him rarely or not at all, IMO.  JD wouldn't spit on him if he was on fire from what I can tell and, even the ones who might be more forgiving like Jed! seem to have moved on with their lives and I don't think will go out of their way to pay a visit.  I think there will be plenty of visitors' days where FF is not going to make it to the visitation room at all.

Edited May 21, 2022 by Notabug

[Notabug]

1 hour ago, kaleidoscope said:

Was money/payment involved in FF's crimes?  I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere and have wondered.

I don't think we've heard and I don't know anything about the dark web, but it does seem like some sort of transaction would be required, doesn't it?  I think maybe we don't want to know how he paid.

[emmawoodhouse]

Regarding the kids, remembering Teresa Giudice taking kids to see Dad in the pen, I recall an age limit. Maybe 12 and up? But being convicted of CSAM crimes, will they allow any of the kids at all?

[Cinnabon]

8 minutes ago, Notabug said:

Is the jail still on COVID restrictions?  Much of the time he's been held, they weren't letting visitors into the jail, they were doing video visits.

I don't think Michelle will go to court either, not only because she's wimminfolk, but also because I don't think even JB knows how she will react to the whole thing.  She seems barely catatonic much of the time, but seeing FF in handcuffs and an orange jumpsuit and then hearing all those ungodly prosecutors say all those awful things about the Golden Prince; she could either fall to the floor in a dead faint or end up speaking in tongues.  In a very loud voice, using words we didn't think would ever cross her lips.

No matter where FF ends up incarcerated, very few people from the family will visit much, if at all.  Of course Anna will show, as will JB but probably not as much as Anna.  Michelle is not going but maybe once or twice a year and I don't see them bringing any of their under 18's along. I don't see any of his sisters visiting, even if the fed was in their back yards.  Even his brothers will visit him rarely or not at all, IMO.  JD wouldn't spit on him if he was on fire from what I can tell and, even the ones who might be more forgiving like Jed! seem to have moved on with their lives and I don't think will go out of their way to pay a visit.  I think there will be plenty of visitors' days where FF is not going to make it to the visitation room at all.

Anna will be able to visit only when she gets a chaperone to take her by plane or car to wherever he ends up. God forbid she go alone!

[DXD526]

Pest can't get a long sentence! Think of the crackers!

[Notabug]

6 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Regarding the kids, remembering Teresa Giudice taking kids to see Dad in the pen, I recall an age limit. Maybe 12 and up? But being convicted of CSAM crimes, will they allow any of the kids at all?

According to the fed website, children under 16 can visit but must be accompanied by an adult and with the approval of the child's other parent or guardian.  The website doesn't show any restrictions base on the crime; if an inmate is cleared for visitors, it looks like there is one set of rules.

Not that this is the last word, but, on Orange is the New Black, the prisoners were often visited by their kids and babies were included.  However, visitation took place in a large crowded room where all the visitors sat at small card-table sized tables with their individual inmate seated with them.  Multiple guards on the perimeter and surveillance cameras and such.  No inmate would ever be alone with anyone in that setting, not an adult, let alone a kid.

Edited May 21, 2022 by Notabug

[Ijustwantsomechips]

36 minutes ago, Notabug said:

According to the fed website, children under 16 can visit but must be accompanied by an adult and with the approval of the child's other parent or guardian.  The website doesn't show any restrictions base on the crime; if an inmate is cleared for visitors, it looks like there is one set of rules.

Not that this is the last word, but, on Orange is the New Black, the prisoners were often visited by their kids and babies were included.  However, visitation took place in a large crowded room where all the visitors sat at small card-table sized tables with their individual inmate seated with them.  Multiple guards on the perimeter and surveillance cameras and such.  No inmate would ever be alone with anyone in that setting, not an adult, let alone a kid.

That’s how visitation worked at the state prison I worked at years ago. No touching, no sudden movements, hands visible at all times.

[Absolom]

3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I wonder if Michelle has visited him in jail. Tomorrow maybe the last they'll see Josh, for what I'm guessing will be at least a month.

The Washington County jail website is still showing only remote vists.  

[ALittleShelfish]

WRT the memo stating no phones, etc allowed in the court room during sentencing... 

Is there any kind of anti-Duggar group that might show up to this?  I ask because at the last few court dates for (unrelated, I know, but a good size public interest, nonetheless) the last few Britney Spears conservatorship hearings, there was a group of law firm employees (i can't remember how many were lawyers and how many were paralegals, etc, if it was the IG account LawyersForBritney or BritneyLawArmy) that took turns taking "restroom breaks" to go out into the hall, get their phones, and tweet out info in real time.  It was brilliant, it was well executed, and it really threw the LA courts into a tizzy wondering how it happened.  

Is there enough interest in FF that this could be a thing that happens on Wednesday?  Or are we all just hoping he gets locked up for a long time and no one cares what else the judge has to say leading up to it?

Am I also too invested in court cases for reality show participants? 

[Zella]

During his trial, some random snarkers unconnected to this board did show up. One of them posted daily updates for a couple of days on Reddit before getting weirded out by the experience and the attention they were getting and abandoning ship. But I don't believe any of the nosy bystanders were identified by the court as disruptive or asked to leave. 

I believe the reporters for The Sun got in trouble because they were updating somehow at lightning speeds compared to everyone else and then there was a terse update about electronics being banned in the courtroom, and they started updating at roughly the same pace as everyone else. LOL I believe some other reporters also mentioned that there was a warning about it but without naming names.

(I suspect after that, The Sun's approach was to have two people take turns on who went on break and then pass their notes to each other, so one could update and then the other could be in the courtroom. Because they'd still provide steady content, but the new ones came quickly after logical breaks (like lunch) before they'd descend into obvious filler.)

In any event, my guess is that the court probably is thinking more of the handful of reporters from various outlets who they assume will camp out and want to post updates than anyone else since that was their experience during the trial. 

[ALittleShelfish]

@Zella thank you!  That's interesting.  I'm actually glad to hear there is a sense of urgency in getting this information out to the public before it can get filtered by someone (IDK who, but I feel like we sometimes see a watered-down version).

I appreciate all of the local and legal knowledge that this forum offers.  I'm not as invested in this family as many, but I am 100% drawn to how this family reacts to being treated as the rest of us would.  You know the phrase... "Celebrities... they're just like us!" LOL

[Zella]

4 minutes ago, ALittleShelfish said:

I'm actually glad to hear there is a sense of urgency in getting this information out to the public before it can get filtered by someone (IDK who, but I feel like we sometimes see a watered-down version).

I just wish it had been someone besides The Sun. Their phrasing tended toward the hysterical, and they were less than precise in summarizing the often complicated legal arguments. They also seemed to have trouble identifying who was who in pictures. Them misidentifying Jason as Jed two days in a row was just hilariously bad. 

A local reporter was providing some nicely written, clear, thorough summaries if you didn't mind waiting until the end of the day, though he ended up becoming a celebrity on other snark boards for them, to a point that I found truly ridiculous on their part and unprofessional on his part in how he responded to it in clearly wallowing in his 15-minutes of fame. He ended up having to lamely backtrack some of the things he'd said off-the-record about his own newspaper. LOL 

Edited May 22, 2022 by Zella

[emmawoodhouse]

As I noted previously, we may have Emily D Baker there. Even though she clearly despises Smuggar, she gets the legal arguments correct in her analysis. 

[ALittleShelfish]

3 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

As I noted previously, we may have Emily D Baker there. Even though she clearly despises Smuggar, she gets the legal arguments correct in her analysis. 

Yep I liked her youtube videos about Britney's case.  She also isn't afraid to call out other lawyers who seem to want their 15 minutes.  I wasn't aware she was in on this too, so I'm definitely looking forward to seeing her reporting on this! 

 

[emmawoodhouse]

Just now, ALittleShelfish said:

Yep I liked her youtube videos about Britney's case.  She also isn't afraid to call out other lawyers who seem to want their 15 minutes.  I wasn't aware she was in on this too, so I'm definitely looking forward to seeing her reporting on this! 

 

She's been on this case since the beginning! I found her via the KJ/Tati Westbrook case, but stayed for the rest of her pop culture lawsuits. 😀

[DXD526]

Quote

I appreciate all of the local and legal knowledge that this forum offers.  I'm not as invested in this family as many, but I am 100% drawn to how this family reacts to being treated as the rest of us would.  You know the phrase... "Celebrities... they're just like us!" LOL

For me, it's all about the schadenfreude. This gross family spent years telling lies about all the people they didn't like, without ever bothering to get to know anyone outside their gross little bubble. It's nice to see it all coming together to backfire on them. It's really interesting how Screech making those disgusting robocalls a few years back can be traced to present-day troubles. All the dominoes started to fall. If she had just kept her ignorant maw shut, this whole thing may have been avoided.

I hope he gets 20.

[Cinnabon]

Just now, DXD526 said:

For me, it's all about the schadenfreude. This gross family spent years telling lies about all the people they didn't like, without ever bothering to get to know anyone outside their gross little bubble. It's nice to see it all coming together to backfire on them. It's really interesting how Screech making those disgusting robocalls a few years back can be traced to present-day troubles. All the dominoes started to fall. If she had just kept her ignorant maw shut, this whole thing may have been avoided.

I hope he gets 20.

Indeed, the schadenfreude is beautiful. We don’t often get to see karma hit so hard and fast, lol.

[SusanM]

2 minutes ago, DXD526 said:

For me, it's all about the schadenfreude.

Same.  If these had actually been the family they pretended to be I think we'd all still be disgusted by Josh and his crime but we'd be feeling sympathy for the rest of the family.  But they were NEVER what they pretended to be and into the bargain had the gall to not only think they were better than everyone else but they have profited for years from their small minded bigotry masquerading as christianity.

[Cinnabon]

5 minutes ago, SusanM said:

Same.  If these had actually been the family they pretended to be I think we'd all still be disgusted by Josh and his crime but we'd be feeling sympathy for the rest of the family.  But they were NEVER what they pretended to be and into the bargain had the gall to not only think they were better than everyone else but they have profited for years from their small minded bigotry masquerading as christianity.

And they would all have definitely have repudiated what he has done. Once again, his victims were the only ones with SM statements, and Jessa’s was weak. Michelle and JB should be standing up and disavowed Josh’s actions in no uncertain terms. But instead they’re minimizing and straight up denying his crimes. While no doubt continuing to impugn LGBTQ for being unsafe to be around and calling them threats to their precious innocent children. Josh (and those like him) are the threat, Duggars.

[GeeGolly]

Personally I think Josh was the only one hiding things. With that said, I'm glad Michelle kicked the domino and started this rolling, otherwise I would think there'd be a lot more victims.

[all fall down]

1 hour ago, DXD526 said:

For me, it's all about the schadenfreude. This gross family spent years telling lies about all the people they didn't like, without ever bothering to get to know anyone outside their gross little bubble. It's nice to see it all coming together to backfire on them. It's really interesting how Screech making those disgusting robocalls a few years back can be traced to present-day troubles. All the dominoes started to fall. If she had just kept her ignorant maw shut, this whole thing may have been avoided.

I hope he gets 20.

To be fair the robo calls are not linked at all to his present day troubles, only the FOIA request and release of the police report. They weren't looking for Josh, just anyone who happened to be downloading CSAM and happened to catch him. 

The only thing connected is that the prior molestation information could affect his sentencing. 

You could argue that the interest in the current case is releated to the prior scandals.  Even if we had no knowledge of the molestations, I still think it would have been a big deal to have the son of this 'famous for being the best Christian family' to be caught using Ashley Madison and downloading CSAM. The Duggars were already thought of as hypocrites by many even before we knew of the molestations, but it's a bigger deal because of knowledge of his prior acts. 

[Quilt Fairy]

21 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

As I noted previously, we may have Emily D Baker there. Even though she clearly despises Smuggar, she gets the legal arguments correct in her analysis. 

I don't think that's going to happen.  She did plan on going to the sentencing back when it was April 5th, but hasn't said anything about being there on May 25th.  Right now she's live streaming and commenting on the Johnny Depp-Amber Heard trial.

[emmawoodhouse]

Yeah, she's all in on Drop/Heard. I was wondering how that would work. 

Oh well. 

[irisheyes]

The hearing should be reasonably short, right?  

[Zella]

Just now, irisheyes said:

The hearing should be reasonably short, right?  

The reporter who has covered the trial in the past said he's been given no indication of how long it would be. He seems to be operating on the assumption it could be anything from under an hour to all day. 

[emmawoodhouse]

Dang, this could be all done and dusted before I even get online for the day. IIRC, the proceedings start at 9:30 CT.

[GeeGolly]

7 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Dang, this could be all done and dusted before I even get online for the day. IIRC, the proceedings start at 9:30 CT.

I think you're right. I can't imagine this taking more than a couple, two, three hours. Other than victim statements possibly being read and maybe a Duggar or two speaking, its pretty much a done deal before they even enter the courtroom. I know the lawyers gotta do their thing, but I expect very brief statements from them.

You could get up early to join in the live festivities. 😴🥱😵

[hathorlive]

On 5/21/2022 at 7:34 PM, Notabug said:

I don't think we've heard and I don't know anything about the dark web, but it does seem like some sort of transaction would be required, doesn't it?  I think maybe we don't want to know how he paid.

Most of the Dark Web content is free, though there are pay sites, and most of those take bitcoin.  No one wants to be traceable by a credit card number or bank routing number.  Other sites require you provide content (aka new CP) to access their content.

[hathorlive]

On 5/20/2022 at 8:39 PM, skatelady said:

And it's crazy to think he said that all the while knowing what Josh did to his sisters. What gall. 

But doesn't this show the true JB?  We are a good Christian family, and Jebus loves us more than he loves you, so we are okay with incest and sexual abuse in our family but everyone else who Jebus doesn't love needs the death penalty.  It's everything I hate about religion rolled up in one person.  He's a liar, a grifter and a hypocrite.  Someone should tell JB that nothing burns brighter in hell than a hypocrite.

Edited May 23, 2022 by hathorlive
Grammar matters

[SusanM]

1 hour ago, hathorlive said:

Someone should tell JB that nothing burns brighter in hell than a hypocrite.

I have wondered about this with regard to people like JB.  If (and frankly that's a big if) they actually do believe in God and in heaven and hell are they truly so deluded that they think there is nothing they can do on earth that won't have consequences, bad consequences, eventually?  

[Future Cat Lady]

18 minutes ago, SusanM said:

I have wondered about this with regard to people like JB.  If (and frankly that's a big if) they actually do believe in God and in heaven and hell are they truly so deluded that they think there is nothing they can do on earth that won't have consequences, bad consequences, eventually?  

But don't they think that they're forgiven if they ''believe in the right Jesus'' ?

[libgirl2]

1 minute ago, Future Cat Lady said:

But don't they think that they're forgiven if they ''believe in the right Jesus'' ?

Because they are "saved". They say the magic words and they get a "get out of Hell free" card. 

[crazycatlady58]

5 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

Because they are "saved". They say the magic words and they get a "get out of Hell free" card. 

Well they need to remember to repent means to turn away from your sins and being saved does not give you permission to continue sinning. The big problem is they don't think they are sinning.

[libgirl2]

4 minutes ago, crazycatlady58 said:

Well they need to remember to repent means to turn away from your sins and being saved does not give you permission to continue sinning. The big problem is they don't think they are sinning.

I have heard people say as long as they are saved, they can pretty much do what they want. 

[hathorlive]

38 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

Because they are "saved". They say the magic words and they get a "get out of Hell free" card. 

My mama calls this "act like a whore on Saturday night, repent on Sunday morning, Monday morning, Virgin again! Christians.  I don't have a lot of religious beliefs. I believe in something greater than myself, but I have a name for it. I believe in treating people like I want to be treated, and to help whenever I can.  If the scale doesn't even out on the side of good, or if I truly go to hell because no one dunked me in a crick, then I'm okay with that. I've lived a good life and helped so many people.  To think that the Duggars, who steal amongst themselves and treat people horribly are going to heaven, then maybe I don't want to go there.    

[SusanM]

29 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

I have heard people say as long as they are saved, they can pretty much do what they want. 

Must be nice.  I remember back in school someone challenging one of our religion teachers about this - the idea being that as a Catholic if you repent you are forgiven.  So essentially as someone upthread noted a "get out of hell free" card.  As I recall the teacher pointed out (a) it's genuine repentance and sin no more -so no you don't get to knock off banks endlessly and keep saying "sorry god my bad", but most importantly (B) whatever happens in the afterlife you commit the crime on earth, you do the time on earth.

This aspect of things also seems to have eluded people like the Duggars.  Which is a big reason so many of us rejoiced at this trial.  Not just because a bad guy was getting his comeuppance but because people like JB finally got schooled - no you actually do not rule the world.

[libgirl2]

12 minutes ago, SusanM said:

Must be nice.  I remember back in school someone challenging one of our religion teachers about this - the idea being that as a Catholic if you repent you are forgiven.  So essentially as someone upthread noted a "get out of hell free" card.  As I recall the teacher pointed out (a) it's genuine repentance and sin no more -so no you don't get to knock off banks endlessly and keep saying "sorry god my bad", but most importantly (B) whatever happens in the afterlife you commit the crime on earth, you do the time on earth.

This aspect of things also seems to have eluded people like the Duggars.  Which is a big reason so many of us rejoiced at this trial.  Not just because a bad guy was getting his comeuppance but because people like JB finally got schooled - no you actually do not rule the world.

Yes, it has to be genuine repentance and you aren't supposed to just keep doing it because, "hey, I can confess". You have to try not to. 

[Rabbittron]

What time on Wednesday do you think that Aquanet will object to the ruling and then ask the judge if he accepts the sentence. 

[Ohiopirate02]

10 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

Yes, it has to be genuine repentance and you aren't supposed to just keep doing it because, "hey, I can confess". You have to try not to. 

And all of that just buys your way into purgatory where your soul will be further purified before being allowed into heaven.  

[GeeGolly]

It seems much easier to me to try and live everyday as a good person and take responsibility/consequences when you mess up. Pretty simple formula.

[hathorlive]

2 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

It seems much easier to me to try and live everyday as a good person and take responsibility/consequences when you mess up. Pretty simple formula.

I always thought the point of the bible was to illustrate situations where you could do good or do evil.  Kind of like a long ass, drawn out Highlights Goofus and Gallant cartoon.  And that the lessons are meant to inspire you to do good.  Now, my peers assure me, going to heave includes going to a mega church with two huge gyms, a home school club and an ready to go protest group to hate on abortion and gays.  And Heaven is just a parking validation away.  They think going to church negates actually being a good person.  I don't recognize this religion at all.

[ginger90]

8 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

It seems much easier to me to try and live everyday as a good person and take responsibility/consequences when you mess up. Pretty simple formula.

Some think that’s exactly what they’re doing,  others (outsiders) don’t see it that way.

[hathorlive]

4 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

Some think that’s exactly what they’re doing,  others (outsiders) don’t see it that way.

I wonder if the Judge will mention that he can't trust Josh with his family, because they have constantly failed to do the right things, and that has resulted in more victims.  I mean, someone needs to say it outloud.

[skatelady]

10 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

I always thought the point of the bible was to illustrate situations where you could do good or do evil.  Kind of like a long ass, drawn out Highlights Goofus and Gallant cartoon.  And that the lessons are meant to inspire you to do good.  Now, my peers assure me, going to heave includes going to a mega church with two huge gyms, a home school club and an ready to go protest group to hate on abortion and gays.  And Heaven is just a parking validation away.  They think going to church negates actually being a good person.  I don't recognize this religion at all.

Yes, well, those things do make me want to heave.... 🤪

[hathorlive]

8 minutes ago, skatelady said:

Yes, well, those things do make me want to heave.... 🤪

LOL, my typing gets me every time. I was watching a murder mystery with my room mate.  The victim's murderer sent a text message to her family with her phone and the family knew it wasn't her lingo/style.  My room mate turns to me and says "if you go missing and the text message doesn't have two indecipherable words and random g's, then I'll know you're dead".  I'm glad my signature style is bad spelling and texting skills.

Edited May 23, 2022 by hathorlive

[zenme]

35 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

It seems much easier to me to try and live everyday as a good person and take responsibility/consequences when you mess up. Pretty simple formula.

Yes. I personally try to follow the Golden Rule.