Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[kaleidoscope]

I wonder what the visitation rules are until the sentencing.  Is Anna allowed at the jail?

[Absolom]

The Washington County Jail offers what seem to be Zoom or Zoom-like visits either from a home computer (with a fee) or at a kiosk in the jail lobby.  

[Almost 3000]

4 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Other than the most recent nonsensical gossip from Miss Balls, is there any evidence Anna has been slacking on parenting?

Also, I followed part of the AMA with the bodyguard. IMO, there were a few inconsistencies. 

Tuff Topic on Youtube has bodyguard info. It may have been pulled from the AMA.

[mittsigirl]

1 hour ago, Zella said:

His profile pic on Reddit is a bearded dude. 

Okay then, must be a dude!

[emmawoodhouse]

38 minutes ago, Zella said:

Fundie tech guy, meanwhile, was a fucking gold mine earlier this week. 

By "fundie tech guy" do you mean the guy who testified at the trial?

[Zella]

1 minute ago, emmawoodhouse said:

By "fundie tech guy" do you mean the guy who testified at the trial?

Yes him. I found his answers pretty interesting. He had a lot of specifics, and he didn't overstate his involvement or knowledge. My favorite reveal was pretty inconsequential but Bobye apparently finds it hilarious that nobody on the internet knows how to pronounce her name. 

[Gemma Violet]

5 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

Anna has 7 children and a supposed degree in Christian education.  

Really?  I had no idea Anna had any kind of education beyond her home schooling.  Would this allow her to teach in a Christian school?  (Not that she would ever attempt that.)

[SusanM]

18 minutes ago, Absolom said:

The Washington County Jail offers what seem to be Zoom or Zoom-like visits either from a home computer (with a fee) or at a kiosk in the jail lobby.  

If things haven't already started to sink in for Anna this should do it.  No more Reber home away from home for visits with Smuggar.  They may not even be able to have in person visits for months - and then it will depend on the rules at whatever prison he ends up in.  Too much to hope it will be like the prisons I see in movies where there is a screen between the prisoner and the visitor and they have to talk with a phone?  Or is this old school prison visiting?

[Almost 3000]

7 minutes ago, Gemma Violet said:

Really?  I had no idea Anna had any kind of education beyond her home schooling.  Would this allow her to teach in a Christian school?  (Not that she would ever attempt that.)

It was explained at the time it was more for those that would be homeschooling. So better than nothing but really just a non credited fundie piece of paper.

[Jeanne222]

Does anybody really think Anna oversaw Josh computer activity?  
 

Covenant Eyes was watching but what the heck could Anna do?  If there was porn on there, adult porn, would that come out at trial?

[Absolom]

7 minutes ago, SusannahM said:

Too much to hope it will be like the prisons I see in movies where there is a screen between the prisoner and the visitor and they have to talk with a phone?  Or is this old school prison visiting?

With COVID precautions, there well may be a  plexiglass divider and all the ones I read required some form of social distancing.  

[Zella]

1 minute ago, Jeanne222 said:

 If there was porn on there, adult porn, would that come out at trial?

That did come out at trial. He was accessing adult porn that fall. I believe even the day before the raid. 

[SusanM]

Just now, Jeanne222 said:

 If there was porn on there, adult porn, would that come out at trial?

IIRC there was a mention at the trial that adult porn had been downloaded and viewed in and around the same time the CSAM was accessed,

[emmawoodhouse]

4 minutes ago, Almost 3000 said:

It was explained at the time it was more for those that would be homeschooling. So better than nothing but really just a non credited fundie piece of paper.

As I remember it, her "degree" was in early childhood education. So, homeschooling for the preschool set. 

[SMama]

1 minute ago, emmawoodhouse said:

As I remember it, her "degree" was in early childhood education. So, homeschooling for the preschool set. 

And from College Minus.

[emmawoodhouse]

Just now, SMama said:

And from College Minus.

Her "school" was never confirmed. I was always dubious about her education anyway.

[Absolom]

Her "college" was before College Minus existed and seemed like it was a correspondence school before distance learning became popular.

[SusanM]

4 minutes ago, Absolom said:

Her "college" was before College Minus existed and seemed like it was a correspondence school before distance learning became popular.

Wait, wait, your mean College Minus exists?  I thought it was a joke name.  Off to google!

[emmawoodhouse]

1 minute ago, SusannahM said:

Wait, wait, your mean College Minus exists?  I thought it was a joke name.  Off to google!

College (Plus) Minus is now defunct. 😂

Edited December 14, 2021 by emmawoodhouse

[Absolom]

I always thought Anna's program was through something like IBLP's Verity College, but their program has been redone so we can't go back and see what was available 15 to 20 years ago.  IBLP had another after high school program way back when and I've forgotten that name.

[Jeanne222]

25 minutes ago, Zella said:

That did come out at trial. He was accessing adult porn that fall. I believe even the day before the raid. 

Anybody ask Anna if she caught that?  Nobody could do anything with that pervert!!

That program for Anna to watch Josh was a joke!

[drafan]

42 minutes ago, SusannahM said:

 Too much to hope it will be like the prisons I see in movies where there is a screen between the prisoner and the visitor and they have to talk with a phone?  Or is this old school prison visiting?

Casey Anthony did this in jail.... she was on the phone bullshitting her parents.

Hey! BTW, where's Nancy Grace been through all this?

 

1 hour ago, Zella said:

Other than porn while driving, which was weirdly specific enough for me to believe, I'm not sure he gave anything new.

There's nothing at all funny about any of this, but I suddenly had a vision of Del (John Candy) driving all over the highway in Planes, Trains, and Automobiles.

 

[sue450]

4 hours ago, Heathen said:

You can't generalize about pedophiles any more than you can any other group. Not all pedophiles are teachers or priests or otherwise people whose careers put them into contact with children. 

If Smuggar wasn't a pedophile and just wanted cruelty, he could have downloaded the plethora of adult bondage/sadism porn on the Internet. He went to CSAM because he's attracted to children. 

someone posted in one of the snark threads that they home schooled and went to these conventions where the duggars attended/spoke   it was well known unwritten rule "never leave your child alone with josh duggar"    so he WAS interested in little kids...and he lives on the compound in their bubble he would never have outside jobs that pedophiles are usually drawn to..,,though...for some insane reason they put him in charge of the childrens choir at one point

Edited December 14, 2021 by sue450

[Almost 3000]

1 hour ago, emmawoodhouse said:

As I remember it, her "degree" was in early childhood education. So, homeschooling for the preschool set. 

That sounds right. You explained it better than I did.

[irisheyes]

And she actually did do a decent job of doing preschool with the first couple. (Or, at least the show was good at showing it.). I doubt the later Ms have gotten quite the same attention. 

[SMama]

2 hours ago, Zella said:

That did come out at trial. He was accessing adult porn that fall. I believe even the day before the raid. 

IIRC, there was an instance where he was accessing adult porn at 2:00 a.m. I hope he was not in bed with Anna at the time. Sorry for the visual, brain bleach is on me.

[Tabbygirl521]

7 hours ago, kaleidoscope said:

ArtemisSailor said he was hired to be a bodyguard for Josh.  He described him as "a predator."  After being around all of the Duggars, he said he was Team Jill and Team Joy.

Also said he’s on Team Fuck Anna. Says she’s not naive and sweet at all. 

I highly recommend the AMA. 

OH, and Josh watched adult porn in his car. While driving. 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Tabbygirl521

[ALittleShelfish]

2 hours ago, Zella said:

 My favorite reveal was pretty inconsequential but Bobye apparently finds it hilarious that nobody on the internet knows how to pronounce her name. 

I will forever imagine her name to be similarly pronounced as Kanye.  There is nothing this forum or anyone ever can do to convince me otherwise.  Team Bob-Yay.  

One of my part time employees is a superfan to the n-th degree of this family.  She will say things like "Oh, their religion isn't so bad." or "Oh, all big families are like this." or most recently "It's a witch hunt! He and Anna are so cute together!"  Weird, she won't return my texts now.  (In full transparency, I prob sent her a dozen or so texts in a row about what was learned in the hearings, but come on, man, defend your fundies!)

 

[Absolom]

I think I'm one of the unfortunate people who heard it said before I ever saw her name in writing.  Takes all the fun out of it.

[Zella]

1 minute ago, Absolom said:

I think I'm one of the unfortunate people who heard it said before I ever saw her name in writing.  Takes all the fun out of it.

I've seen her name like a thousand times in the past week, and I still do a double-take halfway through. Like my head literally snaps to attention as I try to process what follows Bob. [Spoiler: It's always Yay that follows.]

Edited December 14, 2021 by Zella

[emmawoodhouse]

28 minutes ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

Also said he’s on Team Fuck Anna. Says she’s not naive and sweet at all. 

I highly recommend the AMA. 

OH, and Josh watched adult porn in his car. While driving. 

I remember a member of FJ met Jana and Anna a public event way back when (2012ish). Said Jana was pleasant, but Anna was a stuck up bitch. So, Anna's persona isn't a new thing. 

Edited December 14, 2021 by emmawoodhouse

[sue450]

On 12/11/2021 at 10:22 AM, Tuxcat said:

So lets see.

In the boys room: Jason (21) James (20) Jackson (17) and Tyler (13) plus maybe the Ms? 

Michael (10) Marcus(8) Mason (4)

In the girls room: Johanna (16) Jennifer (14) Jordyn (12) Josie (12) Mackenzie (12)

Meredith (6) Maryella (2) Madyson (0)

Buddy teams are no longer a thing but if the M's moved in they would probably pressure the lost girls + Mackenzie to take over.

It may be that the the J's were not officially in charge of the M's - which is how one little M went missing. But now, they are going to have to reform those teams.

Does Jana (31) really live in that girls room still?

Would Anna live in the girls room?

Didn't I read that Kendra and Joe moved off the compound? Maybe Anna and the M's move into the cabin?

ANNA LIVED IN THE GIRLS ROOM WHEN JOSH WAS GONE AT THAT CHRISTIAN PLACE FOR MONTHS

[emmawoodhouse]

But it was a temporary arrangement. I doubt Anna would want to live there for what could easily be a decade or more.

Edited December 14, 2021 by emmawoodhouse
Rogue comma!

[anna0852]

1 minute ago, emmawoodhouse said:

But it was a temporary arrangement. I doubt Anna would want to live there for what could easily be a decade or more.

Anna won't be given a choice. In Duggar world the problems with Josh are her fault for not being a good wife. She has seven children, no job or job skills and no income beyond Jim Bob's largesse. 

She's probably looking at a decade of TTH indentured servitude while the M's are folded into the Lost Girls. And probably with an ongoing cold shoulder and not-so-silent judgment from her inlaws to boot.

[emmawoodhouse]

Oh, I agree she'll be in indentured servitude. But I think that she'll be allowed to stay in the warehouse. She's still within walking distance to the big house, and her kids' lives won't be much different than they have been since Smuggar was arrested in April.

[Nysha]

I think she'll stay at the warehouse b/c JB & Michelle are far pass having babies and aren't going to want to put up with Anna's wee ones 24/7. I also don't think her life at the TTH is going to be all that different than it has been. 

Unless Pickles' rumors are true that Josh is threatening to bring the entire family down with him. If that happens I think it's going to be every man/woman for themselves.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Nysha

[Gemma Violet]

Quote

He said if he goes down, they'll all go down.

If he really said this, I wonder if he's talking about doing a media interview from prison.  I wonder if that would be allowed.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Gemma Violet

[Genevrier]

On 12/9/2021 at 7:44 PM, Cinnabon said:

And there are many, many religions other than Christianity.

Thank you

[Rabbittron]

In Colorado a Truck driver got sentenced for a fatal accident .he got 110 years and Smuggar is facing maybe 5-10 years. Can you tell me why the fatal accident gets more years in prison than CSAM?

[AgathaC]

9 hours ago, Absolom said:

I think I'm one of the unfortunate people who heard it said before I ever saw her name in writing.  Takes all the fun out of it.

Me, too. I actually have a great-aunt with the same name, (well, almost - Bobbye) so I didn’t blink an eye at it!

[Rabbittron]

10 hours ago, ALittleShelfish said:

I will forever imagine her name to be similarly pronounced as Kanye.  There is nothing this forum or anyone ever can do to convince me otherwise.  Team Bob-Yay.  

One of my part time employees is a superfan to the n-th degree of this family.  She will say things like "Oh, their religion isn't so bad." or "Oh, all big families are like this." or most recently "It's a witch hunt! He and Anna are so cute together!"  Weird, she won't return my texts now.  (In full transparency, I prob sent her a dozen or so texts in a row about what was learned in the hearings, but come on, man, defend your fundies!)

 

To me her name will always be Boo Eye.

[GeeGolly]

1 minute ago, AryasMum said:

He also said that though he disagrees with Derick’s politics, he liked Derick and felt that he really loved Jill. He thought Jill was a good mom and although he wasn’t a kid person, he had held Israel a couple times and thought he was a sweet kid.  

That's one of the things that sounds fishy to me. Derick didn't start spouting his bullshit until a couple of years after this dude says he worked for them. So unless he follows them now, Derick's politics, at that time were the same as all the Duggars as far as anyone knew. Also Izzy was still an infant then, what infants aren't sweet? And weren't the Dillards in CA for a good portion of the summer of 2015?

And isn't this guy afraid of never getting hired again? I'm thinking for those in the bodyguard business it wouldn't take but a little sleuthing to know who was working with the Duggars during that time.

[SusanM]

5 hours ago, Gemma Violet said:

Quote

He said if he goes down, they'll all go down.

If he really said this, I wonder if he's talking about doing a media interview from prison.  I wonder that would be allowed.

What I wonder is, if he actually did say that was he talking about being found guilty because unless he's still living in the City of Denial he has gone down.  Even Smuggar can't imagine for one minute he has any chance at a fine and a suspended sentence.

[smittykins]

18 hours ago, mittsigirl said:

In her mind she is to have as many children as possible, that's the way she was raised to think about her role in a marriage.

I believe that was actually part of their wedding vows(not sure of the actual wording, but basically “leave their family size up to God”).

[Churchhoney]

14 hours ago, Gemma Violet said:

Really?  I had no idea Anna had any kind of education beyond her home schooling.  Would this allow her to teach in a Christian school?  (Not that she would ever attempt that.)

What's always been alleged/reported -- though I've never seen a school name attached to it -- is that in the early 2000s she attended an online Christian school and earned a degree in early childhood education.......

Even if that's true, it's not promising. What I've always seen strongly implied is that she did this very soon after she "graduated" from Keller homeschool at age 16. Anna turned 16 in June 2004. So she must have done this in the 2004-2006 time frame. Those were early days for online education -- even in the "best" programs mostly you worked through fill-in-the-blank exercises, as far as I know. Online or off, distance education at that time was a pretty sparse and rote enterprise, in most cases.

If it's not a prominent enough fundamentalist Christian school for anybody to even name it.....then its quality is, at best, questionable. And a place like that wouldn't have granted degrees, just certificates recognized only by its own graduates or something. If she had a degree from any place that's accredited by anybody, including the conservative Christian groups, I expect we'd have heard about that; but I've never seen anything naming the school or program.

Plus, in real life you don't get a degree in early-childhood education without doing class observation, student teaching and so on......And you certainly didn't do that in an online fundamentalist Christian school in 2005. 

So whatever it was she did, I doubt most people would actually call it education. It was likely a little rote-learning mini-course in which she read some fundamentalist literature about young children and answered some multiple-choice questions. Nothing wrong with that. I mean, it's more than most Duggars would do. But beyond that ... nah....

Edited December 14, 2021 by Churchhoney

[Westiepeach]

30 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

And isn't this guy afraid of never getting hired again? I'm thinking for those in the bodyguard business it wouldn't take but a little sleuthing to know who was working with the Duggars during that time.

He said he is out of the bodyguard business. He retired.

[GeeGolly]

Did we know about this?

[SMama]

9 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Did we know about this?

It was published in 2000, and it has one star on Amazon. He should write a follow up: When Tragedy Hits You Three Times and You Still Do Nothing. 

[quarks]

34 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

So she must have done this in the 2004-2006 time frame. Those were early days for online education -- even in the "best" programs mostly you worked through fill-in-the-blank exercises, as far as I know. Online or off, distance education at that time was a pretty sparse and rote enterprise, in most cases.

If it's not a prominent enough fundamentalist Christian school for anybody to even name it.....then its quality is, at best, questionable. And a place like that wouldn't have granted degrees, just certificates recognized only by its own graduates or something. If she had a degree from any place that's accredited by anybody, including the conservative Christian groups, I expect we'd have heard about that; but I've never seen anything naming the school or program.

 

There were a few genuinely good, fully accredited online degrees/programs back in 2004-2006, but they were all a) expensive, b) run by secular schools, and c) had minor residency requirements. I remember a couple of people getting very excited when Case Western offered a "fully online executive MBA" which required a week or so of residency, for instance. 

My impression is that the Kellers really don't have a lot of money, so even leaving the religious aspect out of it, I'm not sure that this would have been an option for them.

[mittsigirl]

16 hours ago, Gemma Violet said:

Really?  I had no idea Anna had any kind of education beyond her home schooling.  Would this allow her to teach in a Christian school?  (Not that she would ever attempt that.)

Wow. I was lurking on a very fundy woman's Facebook and her followers are adamant about a woman never getting any education because it fills their head with worldly things that can make her stray. They are supposed to court young, marry young, have babies and take perfect care of their husband and his castle. Nothing more than that. No other education is ever needed!