Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Churchhoney]

8 hours ago, SpaghettiTuesdays said:

Smugs and Anna must be in Chatanooga. Looks like the Shraders are home. Fundy family reunions are rather interesting. Rather joyless children, eh?

Edit - Blech! Commented said, "It's so nice seeing Joshua out and about again!!! Please, tell him he has been missed by a LOT of loyal Duggar fans. :)" EWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

Something unwittingly symbolic about them all scrunched down under a rock ceiling with a mountain of stone on top of them, no?

[Churchhoney]

25 minutes ago, BradandJanet said:

Good question(s). I wonder if they're Waller brothers but not twins. The Waller do love to coordinate clothing, you know. 

I think they're Anna's brothers. As I recall, the Wallers all look like slightly homelier versions of David.

Edited November 26, 2016 by Churchhoney

[BradandJanet]

31 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

I think they're Anna's brothers. As I recall, the Wallers all look like slightly homelier versions of David.

Homelier version of David Waller is an oxymoron, but all things are possible in the Kingdom, I suppose. 

I think the jacket twins are Nathan and either David or Daniel Keller. I stumbled on Jill Rodregues' website in the search. This is a sign I have too much time on my hands and need to get back to work.

[ChiCricket]

I noticed JoshUa is all the way to the left of the group. Maybe it's so they can easily crop him out of the family photo.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

I think that when Ben has to be around Josh, he repeats this mantra in his head:

"Do not beat the sh*t out of your boss's son. You need that job. You need the show. Do not beat up your boss's son. Smile while you fantasize about kicking his ***."

(okay, maybe without the expletives)

Edited November 26, 2016 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[Sew Sumi]

7 hours ago, riverblue22 said:

Is Mr. Shrader in that picture?

Only Esther, the baby, and an older daughter came back to the States. 

[Sew Sumi]

They are Nathan and David, but I don't know who is older, but they're about two years apart. The youngest one just preached his first sermon recently. Suze posted when the other one did the same a couple of years ago.

[GeeGolly]

If you look closely, or not so closely, at the Waller picture above, I believe the memo must have read, "Please wear red or navy blue on our outing today". It seems the matchy-matchy brothers were just lucky enough to have similar shirts. 

[Barb23]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

If you look closely, or not so closely, at the Waller picture above, I believe the memo must have read, "Please wear red or navy blue on our outing today". It seems the matchy-matchy brothers were just lucky enough to have similar shirts. 

You're right.  No way all that red & blue wearing was coincidence. Pris & daughter are the winners. 

[SpaghettiTuesdays]

Ruby Falls is the cave in Chattanooga. Maybe they all took a stop there? Or they stayed at a cabin up near there instead of staying in Florida for Thanksgiving?

@Sew Sumi - I saw it posted in the Bates and other families thread after I posted here. I decided to keep it up anyway. I couldn't believe what Smuggar looks like now.

[Sew Sumi]

They were in Florida as late as Tuesday. Maybe they did Thanksgiving early then went to the caves? 

[MunichNark]

Mackynzie is the spitting image of Anna. And she looks increasingly unhappy, poor child.

I cannot bear looking at Smugs, literally, he makes my stomach heave. HOW do you manage to gain this much weight that quickly? He'll die from a heart attack before he's 30 if he keeps going that way.

Having said that, he IS part of the family to both the Duggars and the Kellers, so yes, he has a right to be in a family photo shoot. The Kellers don't usually exploit themselves, so I give them a pass. For the Dugwads, not very much, since they are famewhores who will stop at nothing to stay in the news.

[WhineandCheez]

Quote

Smugs and Anna must be in Chatanooga.

THATS SMUGS???  Holy crap.  He looks like they plucked him out of a Trump rally and inserted him into a cave (pushing very, very hard).  Man, what a 360 degree turn from his Up-and-Coming Far-Right-Washington politico days!

[yogi2014L]

5 hours ago, MunichNark said:

Mackynzie is the spitting image of Anna. And she looks increasingly unhappy, poor child.

I cannot bear looking at Smugs, literally, he makes my stomach heave. HOW do you manage to gain this much weight that quickly? He'll die from a heart attack before he's 30 if he keeps going that way.

Having said that, he IS part of the family to both the Duggars and the Kellers, so yes, he has a right to be in a family photo shoot. The Kellers don't usually exploit themselves, so I give them a pass. For the Dugwads, not very much, since they are famewhores who will stop at nothing to stay in the news.

I hate to say it but maybe that's the point. I really feel Josh is suffering  ( maybe rightly so but still). He probably doesn't give one fuck about his health if he hates his life. Food is his only relief. 

[Catlyn]

On 11/19/2016 at 9:07 PM, ms.o said:

Why are there three open jars of pickles?!

i don't think Anna looks pregnant

One's empty, one's just opened and the other is waiting.  

[Aja]

14 minutes ago, WhineandCheez said:

THATS SMUGS???  Holy crap.  He looks like they plucked him out of a Trump rally and inserted him into a cave (pushing very, very hard).  Man, what a 360 degree turn from his Up-and-Coming Far-Right-Washington politico days!

lmao

[Sew Sumi]

Smuggar uses Marcus as a face shield during Jinger's wedding. 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3979166/18-Kids-Counting-Josh-Duggar-kept-Jinger-s-TV-wedding-special-despite-church-thanks-TLC-s-camera-cuts-blocking-using-toddler-son-Marcus-face-shield.html

[Mrs. P.]

I have to confess - this makes me feel bad for Josh. How utterly humiliating, to have to hide his face behind his child. His self-esteem must already be in the toilet. Now this. It would make some people suicidal.

[Barb23]

I wonder how that worked using Marcus as a shield. There had to be cameras placed at different points in the church so I wonder how Josh knew to block himself at certain times.  I know certain parts were a given-  processional, recessional, seating of grandparents, etc. but it's not like he sat thru entire ceremony with Marcus in front of him.  I'm sure holding up a squirmy 3 yr old  wasn't the easiest. Not to mention having to answer Mack's numerous questions. Did he also have Mer or was she handed off to someone else? I'm not giving him a pass by any means, just want to know the logistics of how the Marcus shielding worked.

[Jynnan tonnix]

It seems that it would be just as easy to pixellate his face. It's not as though it was broadcast live.

[Sew Sumi]

I think that the recessional went down his aisle. Cameras for the professional were everywhere. TLC promised to hide him. Not knowing what camera angle would be used, (and look at this one), he wàs fucked.

[GeeGolly]

9 hours ago, Barb23 said:

I wonder how that worked using Marcus as a shield. There had to be cameras placed at different points in the church so I wonder how Josh knew to block himself at certain times.  I know certain parts were a given-  processional, recessional, seating of grandparents, etc. but it's not like he sat thru entire ceremony with Marcus in front of him.  I'm sure holding up a squirmy 3 yr old  wasn't the easiest. Not to mention having to answer Mack's numerous questions. Did he also have Mer or was she handed off to someone else? I'm not giving him a pass by any means, just want to know the logistics of how the Marcus shielding worked.

Along with the creative editing from TLC, I'm guessing they had any professional photographers sign an agreement not to publish photos with Josh in them.

[awaken]

12 hours ago, Mrs. P. said:

I have to confess - this makes me feel bad for Josh. How utterly humiliating, to have to hide his face behind his child. His self-esteem must already be in the toilet. Now this. It would make some people suicidal.

I thought the same. How awful. Imagining the conversations that had to take place between josh and Anna, the families, production, some explanation to Marcus about what daddy was doing, in order to pull this off. Friends and audience members noticing what was happening, and all of the above knowing WHY and what he did.  

[lianau]

23 hours ago, Mrs. P. said:

I have to confess - this makes me feel bad for Josh. How utterly humiliating, to have to hide his face behind his child. His self-esteem must already be in the toilet. Now this. It would make some people suicidal.

I feel sorry for Josh . I've said it before, I don't think he's a bad person or that he's a danger to his children . I put the blame for what happened completely on his parents .  He was teenager growing up in a sexually repressive environment that at the same time is obsessed with sex to an unhealthy degree. And too much repression leads to senators toe tapping in airport bathrooms claiming to have a wide stance , repression rarely leads to something positive . Then he also bought into the idea that if he just follows all the rules , god will bless him with a wife , children and eternal happiness. I have no doubt  he loves Anna and that they get along well  , I just don't think he's in love with her . I think he also feels cheated out of the life he could have led , if he had sane parents . And because of the scandal he's even more dependent on his father now  , he stuck  with nowhere to go .

[yogi2014L]

24 minutes ago, lianau said:

I feel sorry for Josh . I've said it before, I don't think he's a bad person or that he's a danger to his children . I put the blame for what happened completely on his parents .  He was teenager growing up in a sexually repressive environment that at the same time is obsessed with sex to an unhealthy degree. And too much repression leads to senators toe tapping in airport bathrooms claiming to have a wide stance , repression rarely leads to something positive . Then he also bought into the idea that if he just follows all the rules , god will bless him with a wife , children and eternal happiness. I have no doubt  he loves Anna and that they get along well  , I just don't think he's in love with her . I think he also feels cheated out of the life he could have led , if he had sane parents . And because of the scandal he's even more dependent on his father now  , he stuck  with nowhere to go .

At the same time, he knows enough about the real world now to make a break for it with Anna. He could get some money by doing a tell all- you bet your ass I would be reading it!  If you can get a hooker to meet you in a hotel for sex without anyone knowing, you can open a bank account in your own name, rent a car, and get the hell out of dodge. This isn't a newly 18 year old kid who has no wordly experience. He's a grown man. He can leave. he HAS choices. I feel worse for the adult daughters ( Joy, Jana). 

If he had any sort of concern for his kids I think he would be getting the hell out of there. If he really feels badly about how he was brought up, why is he subjecting his four kids to his BS????

[Barb23]

How long can Josh go on selling cars off of a field? (Or whatever he is doing for $$)

 How long will he continue to be JB'S prisoner?

[Marigold]

42 minutes ago, yogi2014L said:

At the same time, he knows enough about the real world now to make a break for it with Anna. He could get some money by doing a tell all- you bet your ass I would be reading it!  If you can get a hooker to meet you in a hotel for sex without anyone knowing, you can open a bank account in your own name, rent a car, and get the hell out of dodge. This isn't a newly 18 year old kid who has no wordly experience. He's a grown man. He can leave. he HAS choices. I feel worse for the adult daughters ( Joy, Jana). 

If he had any sort of concern for his kids I think he would be getting the hell out of there. If he really feels badly about how he was brought up, why is he subjecting his four kids to his BS????

I wonder if Josh is plotting something.  Making a complete break is not easy especially with his vile history following him around.  He might be chilling here now, getting himself together and planning something.  He is in no rush. It might take a few years. But I think he will break away eventually. 

I also don't think Josh will raise those children with such insanity, the way he was raised.  Anna is very devout but she seems sane.  Josh?  He certainly has been out in the world.  They will be Christian.   But Josh is not going to close his kids off and live like his lunatic parents. Josh's kids will probably go to some type of college.  Guarantee that Josh regrets every day that he did not get to be the lawyer he always talked about.

Chances are, Josh has figured out that his upbringing contributed to most, if not all, of his problems. Josh will say nothing publicly  for a long time...but Josh has proven to be street smart and sneaky. He has spent his entire life going behind Jim Bob's back, breaking rules and doing whatever he wanted.  Josh might be just waiting until the time is right to leave.  Not sure if he will go with Anna or without Anna.  I can see that either way. 

[GeeGolly]

Josh is between a rock and a hard place. As long as his family is on TV he is toxic. No matter the occasion, a sister getting married or a holiday event, etc, the tabloids bring up Josh. The show will have to fade away before any business or entity will take a chance on hiring him, and even then I would think very few would bother because men with his 'skill set' are a dime a dozen and don't necessarily have the creep factor. Breaking away and writing a tell all wouldn't work. He'd probably make enough money to support his family for a year or two only.

No matter how one looks at Joshes behaviors, whether as a stupid repressed curious kid or a monster and whether one of thousands of stupid men on Ashley Madison or a cocky entitled hypocritical Christian jerk, he offends so many different populations of people.

[Christina87]

I agree; he must deeply regret never getting to be the lawyer he'd hoped to become. As a teenager, he probably didn't realize how painfully inadequate his education was. He could have achieved that goal if he'd gone to a regular school, which gives me a small amount of hope that he'll set his own children up to follow their dreams. I don't think he is as smart as he thinks he is, but he is confident and driven, and along with reasonable intelligence, could have probably made it.

If he'd had a normal upbringing, I could see Josh being the type of guy who had serious girlfriends in high school, but then decided to play the field throughout college and law school when he saw how much variety there was. Now, he would have a few years of lawyering under his belt, and may be starting to look for a real love, as I believe he would want a family (just not a million kids). 

In this fantasy world...

jana...quiet, sweet girl in high school, and current kindergarten teacher. too shy to date in school, but blossoming now. Still single because of high standards, but having a good time going on dates. 

JD...would have definitely pursued a trade. He seems to really like the idea of owning his own business, and staying close to home. I could see him either married or not. 

Jill...chatty girl in high school with lots of girl friends who giggle about boys, but aren't friends with any. Always wanted to do nursing, and graduated with a degree in that. I could see her meeting Derick in college and wanting to get married and have a baby right after graduation, but stay in the workforce because of her passion for nursing.

Jessa...high school cheerleader who gets all the guys, college sorority president, and current MBA student. Not even considering marriage for a long, long time. Considers herself and Josh the success stories of the family, and probably has a close relationship with him.

Jinger...followed in Jessa's shadow during high school, and currently a photography student at a small, not very prestigious college. 

The rest probably wouldn't exist if their family was normal. ;-)

[Sew Sumi]

True. He's pretty much universally reviled. I can lay the resonsibilty abuse incidents at his parents' fee. Did I post the Boob quote from the Megyn Kelly thread here the other day? If not, he said that in talking to fellow members of his (home) church, he discovered what Smuggar did was "common," and he didn't think much of it. 

Bastard.

As for Joshley Madison and the other screwing around, that's all on him. I can't excuse that behavior at all. It's apparent to me that he isn't happy: rapid weight gain is never a good sign. Same goes for Anna. I think she's all about the bravado, thinking God will make it all better if she prays hard enough. 

FSM help them if they bring more children into this dysfunction 

[Marigold]

Josh is painted into a corner at the moment.  Jim Bob did some painting and so did Josh.

I think Josh and Anna are MISERABLE and they both are trapped, for different reasons.  One day, they will just walk out.  Either together or separately. It's gonna take time though. 

I hope that Josh makes sure that the kids gets the education that he wanted and couldn't have. 

[kaleidoscope]

I'm wondering if this would not be the perfect time for Josh to continue his education if he REALLY wants to be a lawyer.  He could begin at a community college, even doing most classes on line.  With family right there to help with the kids, he would be out of the limelight and heading in a direction that would fulfill a dream.  It would take motivation and family support, but I would think JB would got nuts to have "his" very own lawyer!

[Aja]

23 minutes ago, kaleidoscope said:

I'm wondering if this would not be the perfect time for Josh to continue his education if he REALLY wants to be a lawyer.  He could begin at a community college, even doing most classes on line.  With family right there to help with the kids, he would be out of the limelight and heading in a direction that would fulfill a dream.  It would take motivation and family support, but I would think JB would got nuts to have "his" very own lawyer!

It would also take an IQ above 80.

[RazzleberryPie]

I don't feel a bit sorry for Josh. He is a predator and his only remorse is he was caught. If it hadn't been his sisters, had he had access to other girls (some say he did), it would've been them. He would've been the frat guy, football player, or Congressman who thought he could do whatever he wanted whenever he wanted, because women are objects and he is entitled and privileged. As long as he doesn't get caught, he'd keep going, and would probably only get a 'boys will be boys' slap on the wrist. 

Millions of people grow up in homes where porn, premarital sex, etc is taboo for teens. Honestly, for all you youngins and those who didn't grown up in religiously conservative households, porn was not common until the Internet made it easily accessible 10-15 years ago. Most of us did not grow up thinking porn was normal, everybody does it, or no big deal. You wouldn't even think of owning videos or having magazines, etc. in good Christian homes with children. Males have had the same hormones and sexual urges since God made Adam. Most people don't molest their siblings.

Hookers and porn after being married are disgusting and disrespectful to his wife, based upon his vows of faithfulness, love, respect. But he was an adult and only had himself to blame. 

The stuff he did when he was a kid, not common, not normal, not excused because he was curious or didn't have access to porn or teen sex. He didn't control himself because he didn't have to. He didn't think he'd get caught and if he didn't get caught, there was a thrill and sense of power. Same as teens who shoplift or speed, except his thrill rides involved vulnerable humans. 

I do blame his parents for trying to minimalize it to the girls, but maybe they were trying to protect them and not have them scarred for life. I also blame them for telling everyone it was common and no big deal, which I think was letting josh of the hook to preserve the upcoming brand. 

Anyway.......I don't blame God, the Bible, lack of porn, hormones, etc. I blame Josh as being another smug, entitled, predatory white male who thought he was above any social norms and rules, and had no regard for anyone but himself. 

[lianau]

23 hours ago, Christina87 said:

I agree; he must deeply regret never getting to be the lawyer he'd hoped to become. As a teenager, he probably didn't realize how painfully inadequate his education was. He could have achieved that goal if he'd gone to a regular school, which gives me a small amount of hope that he'll set his own children up to follow their dreams. 

 

Not possible as long as he's depending on his father for everything. 

[GeeGolly]

I don't feel sorry for Josh either, but I do think his environment contributed to his behaviors. Most brothers don't touch their sisters. Most parents don't constantly expose their kids to their reproductive activities. Most parents don’t basically repeatedly say nana nana poo poo, we get to kiss, touch and have sex and you don’t.

[Micks Picks]

The thing is, JimBob took him to his job with him in the state legislature and had Smuggs work on his campaign for US senator, also probably to help with the unfortunate Holt guy.  Smugger may have internalized this to be kind of a reward for his bad behavior at home, rather than a way for Boob to get him away from the house so he would molest less often.  He was only a kid and could easily misinterpret this as a reward.  At any rate, it gave him ideas of what other power jobs were like.  It contributed to his smugness.  I don't think it was necessary above to describe him as a predatory White male, he was just a predatory male, we already know what color his is.  Newspapers around here have not described suspects by color or race for at least 15 years.

[RazzleberryPie]

I 100% agree that josh wanting to be a lawyer was more about power, prestige, elitism, etc. than upholding or defending the law. 

I called him a predatory white male (and probably should've additionally called him a middle class elitist predatory white male, maybe in his mind an upper middle class), because he fits that stereotypical profile of the entitled WASPY frat boy who thinks he can do vile things to those less empowered to them (women, minorities, other faiths or nationalities, people with less money or education, etc.), and it is his God given right. 

I'm white. My male family members are white. My husband is white (until he steps outside, then Sicilian tan lol). I don't want to sound like Lumping all white men or all Christian men, etc as predators. They come in all genders, shapes, sizes, colors, etc. Josh just fits that one mold to perfection.

[Marigold]

I'm a mix of both.

On one hand, Josh is a mess because of his fucked up family.  However, Josh is the only one that has been involved in this type of behavior. To our knowledge, JD and the other brothers are all clean.  They all had the same family so that makes Josh the sicko all alone. Maybe Josh was born with mental problems? Maybe Josh would've been the same had he been raised in another home?  I don't know.  I do know that Josh got no help for any of his issues when he was a teen and that's a sad thing.  

On the other hand, Josh made horrible, horrible choices as a married adult. There is no excuse for that. None. 

I really hope that Josh is getting REAL counseling and not announcing that publicly.  Anna said church counseling and I'm sure that's true.  Maybe Josh has realized he is one fucked up bastard and is getting intense therapy?  My guess is that he is not but you always hope that there is a shred of sanity...maybe...

[Arwen Evenstar]

45 minutes ago, Marigold said:

My guess is that he is not but you always hope that there is a shred of sanity...maybe...

Yes, exactly, but isn't that what we all who lurk and post here hope for?  We want them all to escape this crazy and have a chance at a normal life.

[DangerousMinds]

IMO the only person that should be concerned about his cheating is Anna.

[Arwen Evenstar]

On 12/9/2016 at 9:09 PM, DangerousMinds said:

IMO the only person that should be concerned about his cheating is Anna.

At the end of the day, that's really the heart of the matter.  We all know what we would do if our spouse/partner cheated on us, but we can't decide for someone else.  As repulsive as Smuggar is to all of us, maybe Anna likes it doughy and pasty.

[lianau]

On 10.12.2016 at 2:34 AM, Marigold said:

I'm a mix of both.

On one hand, Josh is a mess because of his fucked up family.  However, Josh is the only one that has been involved in this type of behavior. To our knowledge, JD and the other brothers are all clean.  They all had the same family so that makes Josh the sicko all alone. Maybe Josh was born with mental problems? Maybe Josh would've been the same had he been raised in another home?  I don't know.  I do know that Josh got no help for any of his issues when he was a teen and that's a sad thing.  

On the other hand, Josh made horrible, horrible choices as a married adult. There is no excuse for that. None. 

I really hope that Josh is getting REAL counseling and not announcing that publicly.  Anna said church counseling and I'm sure that's true.  Maybe Josh has realized he is one fucked up bastard and is getting intense therapy?  My guess is that he is not but you always hope that there is a shred of sanity...maybe...

But Josh is Josh and JD is JD .  I like to call Josh, Jana and JD the conversion kids , the lab rats  for  JB and Michelle's  new found fundie lifestyle and parenting techniques. The first Duggar special was done in 2004 (the next was in 2006)  , by then  Josh was 16 and Jana and JD 14.  Jill , Jessa and Jinger preteen or just teenaged. The next boys were 8 and 9 . Too  much Duggardom and shielded from outside influences resulted in Josh acting out and Jana and JD closing up shop . And the rest of the siblings got saved by TLC in a way  but it was too late for the oldest 3 . 

[Malvina]

[awaken]

Please tell me that's her real hair and not a headband!

[Marigold]

I'm happy to see Meredith is doing something educational on a clean floor in cute clothes. Looks like a little play area for her.  Yah!!!!! 

[yogi2014L]

2 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

I don't know or care about that one way or another, actually. I'm just looking for retribution in all ways possible. lol

On the other hand, I don't necessarily have a lot of confidence in the slipping away. He's held them damn tight for decades and not a single one has slipped. If anything, I think his grip is greatly loosening. I think he's old and worn out and lacks some of the resources he once had that made it easier for him and more desirable for him to hold on madly. So I can't see him really being capable of (or maybe even so keenly interested in) tightening any more. Now, I'll bet, he just wants money, one way or another. .... Anyway, my point being -- not a single damned one of his kids slipped away when he was holding on tightly. So I'm not sure the logic of that holds. .... From here on out, I expect they will gradually slip away. But I think it'll be more because the parental hold is slipping and -- especially -- the gravy train will be slowly slowly slowly slowing down. ... Of course, where they'll all go with zero education, no experience of the world, little intelligence or gumption and adanced agoraphobia is another question.

They must be getting really desperate now.

I would say Josh def slipped!!!

[Churchhoney]

10 hours ago, yogi2014L said:

I would say Josh def slipped!!!

Wow. I wouldn't say so at all. He was crying in the driveway because he was going to move to DC without Mommy and Daddy. And I don;t know that he even likes them very much. And he's a sex-obsessed hypocritical self-righteous endless-baby-spurting fundie slobberer just like Daddy. And now he lives in Daddy's pocket, giving every indication he may live there for the rest of his life. And hides his face behind babies on command when Daddy doesn't want him in the phote-toe. Can't imagine how anyone could think that he'd slipped the Duggar leash. He's a sickening weakling I-gotta-believe-in-Gothard-or-I-might-go-to-hell cling-to-Daddy Duggar all the way.

Slipping the leash, to me, would be making decisions on his own and making his own life. Whether that's taking his kids and wife, working for a mowing company, joining a 12-step group or getting some real counseling by an educated person, and going to college nights to get that law degree. Or leaving his family and going to a city to pick up more than one hooker and learn to drink something other than big sodas (like Daddy, who steals 'em). All Josh has ever done is try and largely fail to sneak a little -- and I do mean little -- sex on the side. That's not slipping any leashes or seriously rebelling, as far as I can see. Especially considering he comes from one of the most sex-obsessed families on the planet.

Having the same little itch every other human has and cheating a bit in a largely vain attempt to scratch it does not a rebel against an empire make.

Edited December 29, 2016 by Churchhoney
one too many hyphens

[yogi2014L]

1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

Wow. I wouldn't say so at all. He was crying in the driveway because he was going to move to DC without Mommy and Daddy. And I don;t know that he even likes them very much. And he's a sex-obsessed hypocritical self-righteous endless-baby-spurting fundie slobberer just like Daddy. And now he lives in Daddy's pocket, giving every indication he may live there for the rest of his life. And hides his face behind babies on command when Daddy doesn't want him in the phote-toe. Can't imagine how anyone could think that he'd slipped the Duggar leash. He's a sickening weakling I-gotta-believe-in-Gothard-or-I-might-go-to-hell cling-to-Daddy Duggar all the way.

Slipping the leash, to me, would be making decisions on his own and making his own life. Whether that's taking his kids and wife, working for a mowing company, joining a 12-step group or getting some real counseling by an educated person, and going to college nights to get that law degree. Or leaving his family and going to a city to pick up more than one hooker and learn to drink something other than big sodas (like Daddy, who steals 'em). All Josh has ever done is try and largely fail to sneak a little -- and I do mean little -- sex on the side. That's not slipping any leashes or seriously rebelling, as far as I can see. Especially considering he comes from one of the most sex-obsessed families on the planet.

Having the same little itch every other human has and cheating a bit in a largely vain attempt to scratch it does not a rebel against an empire make.

He is back in the grasp now but I def think his double life in DC was slippage. Maybe not a full on rebellion, but wouldn't getting a hooker qualify as slipping? That is totally defying everything he was brought up to believe, even if it was only for a year or two. Even the porn thing as a teen was slipping. Compare Josh to Jana. Jana hasn't left the house in 26 years( figuratively speaking). She hasn't slipped. I think Josh qualifies as a kid who didn't toe the line and wasn't 100% controlled all the time ( even if he is now )

This is also just my opinion- but I totally believe that Josh is ONLY doing the Gothard song and dance because $$$$$$.  If Boob didn't have the means to support him, Anna and the Mkids, I think there would be the first Duggar divorce  and Josh would disappear into the night lol. 

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, yogi2014L said:

He is back in the grasp now but I def think his double life in DC was slippage. Maybe not a full on rebellion, but wouldn't getting a hooker qualify as slipping? That is totally defying everything he was brought up to believe, even if it was only for a year or two. Even the porn thing as a teen was slipping. Compare Josh to Jana. Jana hasn't left the house in 26 years( figuratively speaking). She hasn't slipped. I think Josh qualifies as a kid who didn't toe the line and wasn't 100% controlled all the time ( even if he is now )

This is also just my opinion- but I totally believe that Josh is ONLY doing the Gothard song and dance because $$$$$$.  If Boob didn't have the means to support him, Anna and the Mkids, I think there would be the first Duggar divorce  and Josh would disappear into the night lol. 

Well, since this conversation started with my hope that one of the girls breaks a light sabre and reams Jim Bob with it, I'm defining slipping as actual rebellion, not just a little unpermitted genital rubbing in response to a biological imperative!  So we're mainly just talking in different terms, I think.

To me, while I'd say that Josh has probably come closest to slipping the leash, on my definition he certainly hasn't actually slipped it.

Given what I'm thinking of here, I don't see him as any kind of serious rebel against Jim Bob and Michelle at all, Ever. And that's what I'm desperately waiting for in this family! After all, once they'd looked the other way about his molestation of little girls in the family he was the big fat smiling arrogant happy face of the family all over the tv. And he wept in the damn driveway because he was leaving them to go a few states away! And in DC -- Yeah, he tried to get his itch scratched. But I'm looking for a rebel, not a compulsive masturbator, so his sex-seeking doesn't qualify for me, since it was accompanied by constant arrogant speeches in favor of Gothardlike shit, just like Daddy, and a continued popping out of Duggar babies, just like Daddy.

As so often, of course, I'm biased in this by my own experience. I'm the only rebel in my family because I'm the only one who left and actually got different principles and acted on them. If you stayed and just did little crappy things on the sly that went against the rules -- you stayed just as wholly owned as you'd ever been, even if you deluded yourself into thinking that you weren't. That's what I saw, at any rate.

I do definitely agree with you that Josh doesn't "believe" the Gothard stuff and is only in it because these "beliefs" are what have got him and the family all their money and fame -- and because it allows him to hang on to Jizm Bob's tit. But I don't think Jizm Bob actually "believes" it either, in any adult sense.

I doubt Jizm Bob's given two seconds of thought, ever, to the actual theology or ethics or truth of his "faith." In my opinion, he just glommed onto Gothard because it promised good things for his ego. And he remains glommed on because it continues to feed his ego. The kids don't have a shot at believing in Gothard for that reason, since in the Gothard universe only the patriarch, and to a small extent his woman, gets ego feeding.

I wouldn't be surprised if, ultimately, Josh isn't the first one out the door, as you're predicting. I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't, either, though. Because honestly I just think he's a massive coward and that that's his main characteristics. And when the family money runs dry, I can't decide whether I think his cowardice would be more likely to see him run or see him cling. Could go either way.

Edited December 29, 2016 by Churchhoney