Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[GeeGolly]

I remembered to jump in to Cisco's Corner tonight, and one of our intrepid posters asked Cisco the rule about visitors. Either Cisco or Edward confirmed that there are only three visits allowed during the course of "treatment." It was also admitted that "treatment" at RU consists of dealing with a shit ton of rules and regulations until you learn to "obey" God. (or fake it until you make it, for a lot of them, I bet).

 

Alrighty then. I just can't see Smuggar actually following rules, he of no self-control. 

Having strict rules is part of all addiction rehabs. in part to reinforce discipline and self-control, and also for folks to realize the systemic nature of addiction and how it effects not only you but all those around you.

 

It certainly would be helpful for Josh to practice and realize those things.

[Churchhoney]

Having strict rules is part of all addiction rehabs. in part to reinforce discipline and self-control, and also for folks to realize the systemic nature of addiction and how it effects not only you but all those around you.

 

It certainly would be helpful for Josh to practice and realize those things.

 

I wonder whether the most difficult thing when it comes to Josh's "addictions" -- not sure that he actually has anything that fits that name, but his problems anyway... -- might be that when it comes to advising him to take a straighter and narrower path, abide by rules and so on, you'd run headlong into what I think is probably the huge buried issue. The traditions and beliefs from which come the rules he'd be asked to abide by are things to which he has given and, probably, still does give massive lip service, but they're actually dead and empty and maybe even hateful to him now.

 

I expect that the "faith" that was supposed to give his life meaning -- even to having it supposedly inform his "political" job -- doesn't give him any meaning at all or connect him meaningfully to anyone today. I think he's probably quite anchorless and rudderless, with no idea at all where he can find actual meaning in his life, and for a straightening-up regime to have the desired effect, I think it has to address that kind of existential drift. And that's especially hard to do when you're dealing with somebody who either has to re-embrace something he doesn't believe, down underneath, or else cut himself loose from everything he's known and find some new set of beliefs to help order his life and give it meaning.

 

Josh being a Duggar, I expect that the path he'll try to take will be the seemingly easier but ultimately hypocritical one of re-embracing his parents' "faith" (or whatever the hell that is) and following all the RU-type "biblical" rules (at least ostensibly).  But since I'm sure that Josh's "belief" in all of that is just a sham at this point (or maybe always was), I expect that any "help" or "cure" he'd get from doing that would be at best temporary. Eventually -- and maybe sooner rather than later -- he'll find himself lacking any real anchor or rudder once again, and he'll just drift back into his usual patterns. I think that without addressing what's probably a vast sense of emptiness inside him by helping him find some real meaning in life for himself, no treatment regimen is going to be successful. But finding meaning is hard work and would also demand that he openly question things that his parents -- read: his cash cow -- don't want questioned. And I'm pretty sure that Josh is a lazy, cowardly Duggar who's very unlikely to work hard or truly rock the boat.

 

Honestly, I don't think there's any help for him, if we're talking about true, deep change into somebody very steady and grounded and positive.  At RU or any other place. I think he's just in for a life of drift, full of lip service to conservative Christianity, perhaps with occasional forays into something that shocks them, like adultery. But of course that makes him just like millions of other people. ....

Edited November 14, 2015 by Churchhoney

[BetyBee]

Maybe Josh is taking the opportunity to get out of Dodge (RU) while everyone is distracted by the horrible name that headship Ben and his helpmeet Jessa bestowed on their innocent firstborn.  Seriously, that did take the media focus off of Josh and the Duggars are counting on the public's short memory.  

[Arwen Evenstar]

Church honey,

Very articulate, thughtful, and excellent post! You nailed it on all levels. I too was of the mind that Josh is questioning and weighing which Duggar values work for him and which ones just don't make sense anymore.

All his life he was told things were a certain way and to never question any of it. Now that he's been essentially cut adrift and rudderless, he's not sure who he is anymore or grounded in the man he needs to be to be considered a decent person.

There are plenty of loving, open and affirming churches that would readily welcome him to find a new spiritual home free of the Gothard cray-cray.

Don't feel your present place of worship or denomination works for you anymore, Smuggs? Simply find another free of the guilt and shame and blame and nonsense.

Boob and Googly Eyes are still smacking their heads...they followed all the Wisdom Booklets...HOW in their limited sphere of critical thinking could such a thing happen they wonder. To quote my English mother..they "still can't get their hat on about it".

[JenCarroll]

He...uh, has one bone.

rotflmao

I'm going to hell.

[BrianJ62]

rotflmao

I'm going to hell.

Can we go together?

rotflmao

I'm going to hell.

He doesn't have a funny bone

[Tunia]

Since the Jessa and Ben thread is being renamed to include Spurgeon, should we consider renaming this one as well to include the M's?

 

I'll offer a minor adjustment to the current name:

 

Josh, Anna and the Smuggarettes

[JenCarroll]

He doesn't have a funny bone

How do you know? His bone might be hilarious once you get acquainted.

Sigh. I'll save you a seat.

[Joe Jitsu913]

I've read a book about Scott Peterson by Dr. Keith Ablow where he says that when you're emotionally suffocated, you have no sense of self and you wear a mask at all times to hide your true motives. I have a feeling this is what's going on with Josh. Josh has been told who to be, what to believe in, how to act, what to say etc. by his parents and his cult. His mask is being a religious husband and father who's on fire for Jesus. But we all know he loves his porn and hookers and we all know about his molesting tendencies . I wouldn't be surprised to find Josh in trouble with the law or to find out he's a sociopath. Again, this is pure speculation on my part. Anna and the kids are just casualties in all of this.

[Tunia]

I can see the humor, but OTOH I dislike anything that appears to be ridiculing or snarking about infants and small children, and "Smuggarettes" strikes me that way. 

 

LOL.  Oh my...have you visited the Jessa and Ben threads lately?

[MrHufflepuff]

If we're discussing changing the thread title, at the very least, "Goody Smuggar" needs to go in there somewhere.

[Arwen Evenstar]

I'm still laughing about Goody Smuggar! That was indeed most excellent!

How about Josh and Goody Smuggar and Their M&Ms?

[Purpose to defraud]

I realize that some people may think that Anna is working on her appearance more to win Josh back - but the other possibility is that she is working on herself for a change.  When my scumbag cheated on me, I went through the depression but then I was pissed.  I realized that I had concentrated so much time on him, the kids (nothing wrong with devoting time to kids) and the house that I had not really concentrated on me.

 

I started working out more, more makeup, better clothes and simply felt better about me.  I'm hoping above hope that Anna is feeling empowered.  She really does hold all the cards IMO.  Plus, the poor girl has been out from under the daily pregnancy test crap for a while now.  I hope they never release him from RU. 

 

I'm really happy to see her hanging out with Amy.  Amy is pretty much the only one in that family that is going to give her some honest advice about her scumbag husband. 

There is something untrustworthy about Amy. Anna should watch her back. Amy is using Anna for attention, I'm afraid. The blood Duggars may have had a belly full of her and her husband's online criticisms. Edited to add I hope Anna IS working on herself, for herself.

Edited November 15, 2015 by Purpose to defraud

[Soup333]

There is something untrustworthy about Amy. Anna should watch her back. Amy is using Anna for attention, I'm afraid. The blood Duggars may have had a belly full of her and her husband's online criticisms. Edited to add I hope Anna IS working on herself, for herself.

 

Amy is using her entire family for attention. But I do feel sorry for Anna. She can no longer use her public Instagram to post pictures of anything without getting a shitload of negative comments about her family. No more People covers for her, the show is cancelled...It must hurt so much to be cut off from the gravy train. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

My heart really goes out to Anna...she must just really feel cheated and failed by everything she was taught to believe in...and if she followed the formula for being the perfect daughter, wife, and mother...her life was supposed to have been peachy keen...

I just hope she uses this as a springboard to work on herself to realize what a gem she is...she's pretty and kind and loving and seems to be an excellent mother as well.. She deserves better than what she got and I'm sure she really is beginning to realze... that she can have a life of her own and not simply being someone else's broodmare for a church that she knows has failed her.

This too has to be devastating to her as she sees her faith as a huge part of who she is. I hope she realizes that she would be welcome in almost any other church with open arms and even if she decides another version of fundamentalism is still right for her...anything has to be better than GothardIsm and would allow her far more freedom than she would have in Duggarland.

[kokapetl]

The way things have fallen apart must be harder on Anna, unlike Josh, she really wanted and believed in the lifestyle.

Edited November 15, 2015 by Kokapetl

[Arwen Evenstar]

If raised like Josh or Anna I'm sure Breaking Gothard must be hard. Like most cults, members are indoctrinated to believe that there is nothing for them outside the compound walls and they are kept helpless and powerless by their leader and his/her minions and promised grave consequences for defying/rebelling against/leaving.

They've been keep deliberately undereducated by Wisdom Booklets that are booklets but don't necessarily contain Wisdom or any other useful life skills or teach things actually in the Bible.

Following an 80 year old male sworn virgin with a foot fetish as their supreme earthly spiritual teacher on marriage, sexual health, child rearing and finances boggles the mind to the point that it's laughable.

[MargeGunderson]

The way things have fallen apart must be harder on Anna, unlike Josh, she really wanted and believed in the lifestyle.

And she probably believes that she bears some responsibility for all of this, which is so sad. I really wish she'd take a good hard look at the situation and her beliefs and just say screw that.

[Darknight]

Flds women leave all the time. I hope Anna finds the strength to leave. Take the kids and go. There's organizations out there to help.

[GeeGolly]

Flds women leave all the time. I hope Anna finds the strength to leave. Take the kids and go. There's organizations out there to help.

I'm wondering, with all the indoctrination that occurs, how much mental gymnastics must take place, before women like Anna can even get to thoughts of having options. What does it take to get those circuits turned on, so their thoughts can go left, rather than right?

[NEGirl]

Anna probably feels it is her fault because she has been told by people including Mechelle it is her fault. I also think their kids should be left alone. Josh and Anna are adults and have left themselves open to snarking, not their kids. they have no control over who their father is.

Edited November 17, 2015 by NEGirl

[Churchhoney]

Flds women leave all the time. I hope Anna finds the strength to leave. Take the kids and go. There's organizations out there to help.

 

I think the complete over-the-top outrageousness of the FLDS probably is making it easier to leave these days than it is to leave less extreme situations like the Josh-Anna marriage, though. When you have multiple wives and "wives" aged 12 and massive federal investigations, making up your mind that you're right to leave gets a bit of a boost.  In Anna's situation, she'll have to figure out that something that looks much nearer to normal -- plus something that's supplied her, in the past at least, with a way way better lifestyle than she may have ever imagined having previously -- is bad enough to justify defying God, your parents and your inlaws and walking out. Like the FLDS folks, she does have a sort of network she could escape to in her non-Gothard siblings, so I think that might help her make the decision to quit. But most of what she's experienced with Josh is stuff that gets written off as kind of normal and something that people can be forgiven for and reform from. So she'd have to come to see it in a different light to justify leaving. And that's gotta be quite hard to do in her situation. 

 

I'd like to see her leave. Heck, I'd like to see Josh leave. But being fairly well off financially within the marriage and in a situation that looks kind of close to normal are both barriers to people getting out, I think.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Churchhoney

[sometimesy]

If Josh wanted to slip out of RU and back to Tonitown, Spurgeon's birth was the perfect time. Wonder if they took advantage.

[lookeyloo]

There was that unconfirmed rumor that they went to get him. Time will tell

[TaxNerd]

If Josh wanted to slip out of RU and back to Tonitown, Spurgeon's birth was the perfect time. Wonder if they took advantage.

He served two months, the Duggars can "homeschool" the rest.

[GeeGolly]

He served two months, the Duggars can "homeschool" the rest.

Actually I think that is an RU option. Weird as it is.

[Arwen Evenstar]

We'll never know...maybe Boob negotiated Smuggs' "release" and got a lesson while he was there on "discipline" so he could save money like he does with all his DIY projects.

Sadly it won't be the sort of "discipline session" that Smuggs may enjoy...it would still be bondage though!

Oh dear, I think I just defrauded myself...might have too see myself out to the Prayer Closet for that one! :-)

[cheatincheetos]

 So either he gets a secret vasectomy or do what he did.

Can't get a secret vasectomy. If the scars are at all visible he would fail JimBoob's monthly "Sacred Sack" magnifying-glass inspection of all the breeding Duggar males to ensure that he isn't being defrauded of any grandchildren.

We'll never know...maybe Boob negotiated Smuggs' "release" and got a lesson while he was there on "discipline" so he could save money like he does with all his DIY projects.

Sadly it won't be the sort of "discipline session" that Smuggs may enjoy...it would still be bondage though!

Oh dear, I think I just defrauded myself...might have too see myself out to the Prayer Closet for that one! :-)

Josh probably couldn't even get through a retirement-planning class because he hears "stocks and bonds" and pictures something else.

[Purpose to defraud]

He served two months, the Duggars can "homeschool" the rest.

Now that Josh has been in "rehab" for a few months, the Duggars are probably ready to open their own facility.

[Mollie]

There was that unconfirmed rumor that they went to get him. Time will tell

He's out of Illinois, but nobody knows where he is now.

http://www.inquisitr.com/2571291/duggar-family-forced-to-remove-josh-from-illinois-facility

[Arwen Evenstar]

Purpose to Defraud,

I think you're right...of course they now must be deluded enough to believe they are qualified to open a counseling center...sort of reminds me of the commercial...

Wow, you must be a professional .... nope, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once!

The Special Snowflake Duggars are so gifted....after all just give me a 30 minute to 2 hour observation and I'm now an expert.

PTD may not be far off about the counseling center...Boob may make Smuggs build a special prayer closet and put him in charge as "a life coach". Think about it...Got-Hard is an aging fossil who could provide foot massages while he serves as a consultant...This would give Smuggs a job...keep Anna imprisoned and "in her place"...and Jana will be stuck providing Journey to the Heart like seminars ...the possibilities are endless and Boob is deluded and narcisstic enough to think he can pull it off...and DustBin can provide the Friday night fire and brimstone sermons while vapid Jessa Blessa takes selfie after selfie...brilliant !

Edited November 17, 2015 by Arwen Evenstar

[Fuzzysox]

Now that Josh has been in "rehab" for a few months, the Duggars are probably ready to open their own facility.

Hence them buying the pool house so the TTH can be transformed into fun die (purposely purposed to be spelled that way) rehab facility extraordinaire.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Fuzzysox

[Tabbygirl521]

Can't get a secret vasectomy. If the scars are at all visible he would fail JimBoob's monthly "Sacred Sack" magnifying-glass inspection of all the breeding Duggar males to ensure that he isn't being defrauded of any grandchildren.

Josh probably couldn't even get through a retirement-planning class because he hears "stocks and bonds" and pictures something else.

Yer killin' me!

I wonder if Josh has ever even heard of a vasectomy. Seriously.

Lots of men have psychological issues around getting snipped. I expect that for anyone steeped in Gothardism, even an escapee, it might be very difficult to consider becoming voluntarily infertile.

[Aja]

Wouldn't a vasectomy be considered birth control? Or is it only outrageously immoral and disgusting and sick and perverted when we women use birth control?

[Churchhoney]

Wouldn't a vasectomy be considered birth control? Or is it only outrageously immoral and disgusting and sick and perverted when we women use birth control?

 

Oh, I'm sure the Duggars don't approve of vasectomies for their family. If there were vasectomies, how would Jim Bob's spawn ever become as numberless as the drops of water in the sea? 

Edited November 17, 2015 by Churchhoney

[Defrauder]

I wonder if Josh is blackmailing JimDaddy.  What's he got to lose?  He's not going to be getting another job offer in the religious community any time soon, so that leaves him being JB's little boy all over again.  How horrible is that.  If he writes a tell all he could have some independent income, get out of prayer prison and live whatever life he wants.  JB and Michelle would probably try to sue him if he wrote a tell all, but then again they might want to avoid the whole thing by just paying off Josh to keep quiet. 

[Tabbygirl521]

I have no doubt that vasectomies are forbidden, but Josh is obviously a rule breaker.

I just read the article linked above and wow, I hope we learn what is actually going on. The Duggars must not have trusted Josh to stay in a shelter (as per RU's usual procedures for dropouts) until the weather changed, much less hop a Greyhound to come home. He must be trying desperately to get away - otherwise, why did this become an emergency??

I feel kind of bad for being so nosy about this, but damn.

[kokapetl]

He's out of Illinois, but nobody knows where he is now.

http://www.inquisitr.com/2571291/duggar-family-forced-to-remove-josh-from-illinois-facility

The plane (N68SY) flew from Springdale to Rockford and back to Springdale on the 30th of October 2014. The Duggars probably routinely travel there for business that doesn't involve Josh praying his problems away, or Josh being turfed out into a homeless shelter for not praying hard enough.

Not that I think this is the case at all, but JimBob could've have Josh snuffed out months ago. Josh hasn't been seen at all in months, has he?

Edited November 17, 2015 by Kokapetl

[Tunia]

Well, that's certainly going to produce a change in RU's Friday night on-line viewings!  Poor Cisco is going to be wondering where everyone went all of a sudden and why.  I think he was a little smitten with his new-found fame, and then  *.*POOF*.* it's all gone!

[Fuzzysox]

Purpose to Defraud,

I think you're right...of course they now must be deluded enough to believe they are qualified to open a counseling center...sort of reminds me of the commercial...

Wow, you must be a professional .... nope, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once!

The Special Snowflake Duggars are so gifted....after all just give me a 30 minute to 2 hour observation and I'm now an expert.

PTD may not be far off about the counseling center...Boob may make Smuggs build a special prayer closet and put him in charge as "a life coach". Think about it...Got-Hard is an aging fossil who could provide foot massages while he serves as a consultant...This would give Smuggs a job...keep Anna imprisoned and "in her place"...and Jana will be stuck providing Journey to the Heart like seminars ...the possibilities are endless and Boob is deluded and narcisstic enough to think he can pull it off...and DustBin can provide the Friday night fire and brimstone sermons while vapid Jessa Blessa takes selfie after selfie...brilliant !

YES!! PTL!!!!

 

And just imagine TFDW would be in there somehow preaching how wonderful it is to be married to your best friend and looking for a hooker is bad, very, very bad, etc. lol I would pay to be there just to see the shit show go down in real time.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Fuzzysox

[lookeyloo]

That link said 2014. Typo?

[Churchhoney]

The plane (N68SY) flew from Springdale to Rockford and back to Springdale on the 30th of October 2014. The Duggars probably routinely travel there for business that doesn't involve Josh praying his problems away, or Josh being turfed out into a homeless shelter for not praying hard enough.

 

 

 

The Duggars or somebody they lease the plane to. There still doesn't seem to be any hard evidence that John David was actually flying the plane or that Josh was anywhere near it. .... They don't deem their air operations an actual business because of John David's flights because he's not a commercial pilot. If nobody but John David and Josiah flew those planes Duggar Aviation would be 100 percent a hobby. It's only a business because other people sometimes rent -- or at least could rent -- those planes to fly them themselves. That flight may have had something to do with Josh or it may have had nothing to do with any Duggar at all. The Inquisitr piece gives absolutely no source for anything it says and provides no evidence either, so in fact nothing is really known about where Josh is or why that plane flew to Rockford.

[sometimesy]

I wonder if Josh is blackmailing JimDaddy.  What's he got to lose?  He's not going to be getting another job offer in the religious community any time soon, so that leaves him being JB's little boy all over again.  How horrible is that.  If he writes a tell all he could have some independent income, get out of prayer prison and live whatever life he wants.  JB and Michelle would probably try to sue him if he wrote a tell all, but then again they might want to avoid the whole thing by just paying off Josh to keep quiet. 

Potential lawsuits regarding his light curious touching might be a huge obstacle to the Josh tell-all. Dammit.

[barbedwire]

That link said 2014. Typo?

 

I noticed that too.  If JimBoob demanded that JD go get golden boy and fly in that horrible weather, well then, it is a worse father than first thought.

[Fuzzysox]

I noticed that too.  If JimBoob demanded that JD go get golden boy and fly in that horrible weather, well then, it is a worse father than first thought.

After I read that article that the plane took off in horrible weather I was afraid for whomever was in that scary tin can. The wind that day was howling and I can't believe that they actually took off and got up in the air.

[barbedwire]

I can't believe they landed safely!

[sometimesy]

I hope they filmed this for Josh's special. Then boot the boring ones off the air. Jessa and her underemployed husband had a baby. Jill and Derick spent 1/2 a day at an orphanage.  Josh went hard core with a pornstar, got sent away to Chrisitan rehab, got kicked out, secretly flew away in dangerous conditions. Which one do I wanna watch hmmm.

[kokapetl]

That link said 2014. Typo?

My link is an archived version of the FlightAware page for the Duggars plane (N68SY) as it was on the 8th November 2014. The plane was flying to Rockford before Josh scandal #1.

I can't believe they landed safely!

I doubt the actual flight was as dramatic as Inquistr made it out to be. The family do own like ten cars. It's 9 hours each way by road, approx 8 hour round trip by Duggar Air, but Josh could drive the way back if they did go to collect him. Illinois isn't the Amazon rainforest. Edited November 17, 2015 by Kokapetl

[sometimesy]

It's a cool story, might be true, might not. What could possibly lead to an emergency Josh retrieval? If he got booted out, he would just go somewhere and wait for better weather wouldn't he? Could be a story woven for interest, and it is interesting.

[kokapetl]

I think it's woven solely to capture people's interest, and interesting is considered far more important than accuracy with tabloids.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Kokapetl