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Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

maraleia

By maraleia
in Counting On

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hoosier80
hoosier80

New show title: 10 to 20 Years and Counting 

MargeGunderson
MargeGunderson

Someone on Reddit just described Josh’s face as a glistening glazed ham. I am considering divorcing my husband and marrying that poster. 

doodlebug
doodlebug

Well, for many of us, it's the difference between 'imperfect' and 'non-PC' and being a criminal.  Josh is a child molester and his parents actively intervened in his situation to avoid him being punis

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Loves2Dance

Loves2Dance

Usually, though, if the the person who actually did the sexual assault (or whatever) comes forth, gives a straightforward press conference (not a cozy sit-down with a sympathetic tv personality), the family is not hounded by the press. They may suffer from pity and social awkwardness, but they aren't hounded especially young children. 

That would require Josh to actually speak up for himself. 

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Albanyguy

Albanyguy

Like others I suspect he will go on the "I was a sinner and I was saved" speakers circuit.  I don't see him going on to a career in politics or anything else though where anyone but his own little circle will care about anything he has to say.

 

I'm guessing that there will be a Josh Redemption Tour (before friendly Fundy audiences) followed by a career in the "ministry". When I was watching Robert Jeffress shrieking at Keith Ablow on Hannity the other night, I was thinking that he'd be the perfect career mentor for Josh. He still thinks that the Duggars are "wonderful" and that Josh has been forgiven and freed from his sins. Josh could go work under him at his church in Dallas and then gradually work himself up in the ranks of Fundy preachers (where you don't always need to be educated or ordained to spread the message). Standing at the pulpit laying down the law to an admiring audience would be right up Josh's alley, almost as good as being with the FRC, especially if he could use it to somehow get his mug back on TV.

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Loves2Dance

Loves2Dance

Yes to this.  For years now I have thought that if Josh ran into hard times, he would do a tell-all.  To me it always seemed like he was just spouting off and towing the line because he had no choice.  Even the FRC job- they paid him big bucks so he just continued to repeat all the stuff that had been drilled into him since childhood.

 

Knowing what we know now, I would imagine the hostility towards his parents goes even deeper.  Not excusing his actions for a minute, but he is one messed up young man, and his parents have to accept that they are partly to blame.

I'm not even sure they're capable of accepting the blame. 

 

I agree with the post above about Josh and how his parents failed him. I'm not in the camp of burning him alive, because I can see where his parents failed him at the same time as failing their daughter's. My biggest gripe with Josh is that he could have chosen differently; he clearly was not drinking the Kool Aid strong enough until he was much older, which is likely why the Duggars go so hardcore from such a young age now (and since Josh was older when they drank it themselves)---he knew what he was doing was wrong, he knew he had impulses, and he saw his parents do nothing until it only got worse. I won't even pretend to understand the 'hell' his counseling/remodeling time likely was and why he came back so changed, but at the age of 18 he could have left---and he would have made a killing $$$ wise to do so, he ultimately chose to stay. He chose to become the family frontrunner, the face of politics...etc, etc. 

 

This ultimately became his choice, and unfortunately, the secret came out and exposes some very ugly truths of this family, and now he will have to suffer for the rest of his life because of it. 

GEML

GEML

If they accept blame? Name me anyone in DC who had a sex scandal who willingly accepted blame and acted genuinely repententant? Well, there was Jim Livingston, I guess. But Josh is doing exactly what everyone else does - he's made a sort of apology, almost certainly written by an attorney. He actually did resign from his position (mostly because he didn't have any choice, I imagine) and is keeping a low profile, letting his surrogates speak for him. It's classic politician scandal 101.

I realize people think of the Duggars as reality stars first, but they were political before they were reality. And it's Huckabee's team who is advising them.

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mbutterfly

mbutterfly

If they accept blame? Name me anyone in DC who had a sex scandal who willingly accepted blame and acted genuinely repententant? Well, there was Jim Livingston, I guess. But Josh is doing exactly what everyone else does - he's made a sort of apology, almost certainly written by an attorney. He actually did resign from his position (mostly because he didn't have any choice, I imagine) and is keeping a low profile, letting his surrogates speak for him. It's classic politician scandal 101.

I realize people think of the Duggars as reality stars first, but they were political before they were reality. And it's Huckabee's team who is advising them.

It hasn't happened much in DC, but it has happened with some famous personalities over the years, and most of the retribution was stopped by the courage of the open admission and apology. And the family was left in peace. Josh is in DC, but not quite of DC at this point I think, I'm not convinced he even cared that much about his DC career. I surely could be wrong. 

JoanArc

JoanArc

I'm really shocked that we haven't seen pictures of him since the scandal broke news

Josh and family got out of DC the day before it broke. I'll give Josh credit for staying tightly in whatever bunker he's in. As long as there's TV, internet, and stocked fridge I doubt he wants to leave. Anna might just have enough sense not to tip off the media by going out, either. I doubt anyone would notice someone from her side of the family running errands.

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Happyfatchick

Happyfatchick

. I realize people think of the Duggars as reality stars first, but they were political before they were reality. And it's Huckabee's team who is advising them.

Really??? You are far more political than I am - I get more involved further into the race (the debates are popcorn and favorite blankey events!). I thought Huckabee was distancing himself a little - I think his knee jerk "forgive and forget" statement blew up in his face. I know you must have caught something in the layout of the interviews or the posturing of the whole debacle makes you think Huck's team is involved. How so? (I'm not being snarky, I'm really curious). Is this to "help" Huck save face for having defended him? Wow. You stopped me in my tracks with that one.

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Happyfatchick

Happyfatchick

Josh and family got out of DC the day before it broke. I'll give Josh credit for staying tightly in whatever bunker he's in. As long as there's TV, internet, and stocked fridge I doubt he wants to leave. Anna might just have enough sense not to tip off the media by going out, either. I doubt anyone would notice someone from her side of the family running errands.

.

I was thinking at first and through last week, they were holing up and someone was surely bringing them supplies (casseroles... TATER TOT CASSEROLE!!!) as you do when there's been a death in the family. (Because, sort of, there was...). But that's got to be getting a little tarnished. At some point, he's got to come out of his rat hole. (I just had a "flash" of Templeton the rat). He's going to be pasty faced, teary eyed and fat as a hog. I guess if they stay hidden long enough, Jill will have to go deliver that baby. She can take her Delivery Plan.

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JoanArc

JoanArc

 

. At some point, he's got to come out of his rat hole. (I just had a "flash" of Templeton the rat). He's going to be pasty faced, teary eyed and fat as a hog. I guess if they stay hidden long enough, Jill will have to go deliver that baby. She can take her Delivery Plan.

Come to think of it, they might reappear at the birth, especially if they have the bad luck of needing a hospital. I hope for Anna's sake she doesn't, and can get some relative privacy.

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Vaysh

Vaysh

I think the brightest thing for both Josh and Jimchelle to have done, would be what we here call "do a poodle", which is basically a roll over, show your underbelly, accept all blame, don't argue, don't make excuses, publicly apologize, apologize apologize, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa, throw yourself on your sword type of thing. Whether honestly meant or not it is surprisingly effective in making people and the press back off and/or forgive. It's such a common strategy that I was actually surprised that none of them performed a proper poodle. Josh did a half-assed one with his letter and resignation, but ruined it by slinking away into hiding and letting his family defend him, and JimChelle went and did the exact opposite which makes me wonder if they had any actually PR working for them or if they just tried to deal with the situation on their own (and miserably failed). And the thing is that their church confessions in front of a congregation sound an awful lot like poodling, which makes their failure to do it in front of the public even more baffling.

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Oldernowiser

Oldernowiser

If they accept blame? Name me anyone in DC who had a sex scandal who willingly accepted blame and acted genuinely repententant? Well, there was Jim Livingston, I guess. But Josh is doing exactly what everyone else does - he's made a sort of apology, almost certainly written by an attorney. He actually did resign from his position (mostly because he didn't have any choice, I imagine) and is keeping a low profile, letting his surrogates speak for him. It's classic politician scandal 101.

I realize people think of the Duggars as reality stars first, but they were political before they were reality. And it's Huckabee's team who is advising them.

You've raised a really good point...they're treating this as if it's a political scandal...but it isn't. It's an entertainment scandal with heavy religious overtones. People don't vote for the Duggars, they found them (for some reason) aspirational...the feel-good wholesome religious family...and they felt connected to them. (Sincere fans, not snarkaholics like myself.)

And that's why this response is coming across all wrong, IMHO. Huckabee's people are using the wrong playbook.

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Cherrio

Cherrio

I'm guessing that there will be a Josh Redemption Tour (before friendly Fundy audiences) followed by a career in the "ministry". When I was watching Robert Jeffress shrieking at Keith Ablow on Hannity the other night, I was thinking that he'd be the perfect career mentor for Josh. He still thinks that the Duggars are "wonderful" and that Josh has been forgiven and freed from his sins. Josh could go work under him at his church in Dallas and then gradually work himself up in the ranks of Fundy preachers (where you don't always need to be educated or ordained to spread the message). Standing at the pulpit laying down the law to an admiring audience would be right up Josh's alley, almost as good as being with the FRC, especially if he could use it to somehow get his mug back on TV.

That's where I predict Josh will end up too.    

I'm really shocked that we haven't seen pictures of him since the scandal broke news

He is hiding in that slide that they in the TTH

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GEML

GEML

It probably was smarter to do the rollover. There's the justifiably famous phrase, "it's not the crime, it's the coverup." I think Josh thought that his statement and stepping down would be enough. But his parents can't bear to be out of the limelight.

Not sure where I saw it, but I do believe someone connected to Huckabee was helping them with statements. I'm sure that was also part of their decision to go on Fox News and getting some sense of how they would be treated there. H may not be speaking out publicly for them again, but I don't think he's abandoned them. We'd know - he'd tell us.

And I believe the photos of Josh and Anna at the airport were them coming INTO DC just as the story was breaking, not leaving. As far as I know, there have been no public photos or comments about them being in AR. Until we are told otherwise, I'm betting they are in MD, so Anna can deliver baby 4 as planned.

JoanArc

JoanArc

 

And I believe the photos of Josh and Anna at the airport were them coming INTO DC just as the story was breaking, not leaving. As far as I know, there have been no public photos or comments about them being in AR. Until we are told otherwise, I'm betting they are in MD, so Anna can deliver baby 4 as planned.

The video shows they're clearly entering the terminal from the street, with luggage. The still photos are taken right before security, with josh holding boarding passes and photo ID. They were leaving. All rumors point to the DC house being empty. They got out, while the getting was good.

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Muffyn

Muffyn

The video shows they're clearly entering the terminal from the street, with luggage. The still photos are taken right before security, with josh holding boarding passes and photo ID. They were leaving. All rumors point to the DC house being empty. They got out, while the getting was good.

No one can say Anna doesn't have a career.  In addition to being a mom, she is also a broodmare and a pack mule.  That Josh is quite the catch.  

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JoanArc

JoanArc

 

By smiling I don't necessarily mean bright cheery, but they didn't look nervous, anxious, distressed, crying...etc, etc. They looked normal, happy even as if nothing was phasing them.

I thought his voice cracked a little in the video. "We don't comment to paparazzi".

 

 

No one can say Anna doesn't have a career.  In addition to being a mom, she is also a broodmare and a pack mule.  That Josh is quite the catch.

To be fair to Josh (ducks!), he was wrangling the three kids, Anna was pulling a wheeled carry-on type bag. That might have been the less stressful job for someone in the third trimester.

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Sew Sumi

Sew Sumi

I don't remember Anna smiling. I remember he was carrying Marcus. She was hauling luggage. Some things never change! ;)

 

By smiling I don't necessarily mean bright cheery, but they didn't look nervous, anxious, distressed, crying...etc, etc. They looked normal, happy even as if nothing was phasing them. 

Someone I know chopped the picture to just show Anna, and she looks quite stressed (sorry, I refuse to host pics to post here). This pic was taken the day after the first InTouch article on the 19th (signaling the police report to come). By heading home and hunkering down, Josh pretty much admitted that he knew it was the end of the line for him. By this point, the Duggars would have likely been alerted that InTouch had received the documents on the 19th. Even if they didn't know that, knowing about the first article and what it implied was enough. 

 

I imagine that Anna had just head the full truth of the matter the day before. She's never had a poker face, but one could also blame her non-smiling countenance on the fact that she was lugging around a near 2-year old, as well as a piece of luggage. Frankly, I think it was a combination of all factors. I can't imagine what life is like for her now. Being submissive and standing by your man, as Gothard demands, can't be easy for her. 

Loves2Dance

Loves2Dance

I thought his voice cracked a little in the video. "We don't comment to paparazzi".

 

I only saw pictures, I never saw a video. 

 

The picture I saw of Anna was no different than how we normally see her, though she is in her 3rd trimester and was likely flying around her cut off date anyway, so I could understand why she may look stressed to others. 

Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)

Really??? You are far more political than I am - I get more involved further into the race (the debates are popcorn and favorite blankey events!). I thought Huckabee was distancing himself a little - I think his knee jerk "forgive and forget" statement blew up in his face. I know you must have caught something in the layout of the interviews or the posturing of the whole debacle makes you think Huck's team is involved. How so? (I'm not being snarky, I'm really curious). Is this to "help" Huck save face for having defended him? Wow. You stopped me in my tracks with that one.

 

Well, CNN reported a few days ago that one of Huck's longtime pr advisors was working with the Duggars. But I don't think anybody knows the nature of Huckabuck's actual involvement, if any, in that arrangement. The guy's not Huck's conjoined twin, after all, so it's even possible that he's just working with the Duggars because they're also longtime occasional clients/Arkansas associates. Or not.

 

Anyway, here's a new Newsweek piece about it. By the tone of it it's clear that, even if Huck isn't involved in hooking these people up, everybody's still going to assume that he is.

 

http://www.newsweek.com/huckabees-connections-duggars-run-deep-340667

Edited by Churchhoney
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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

Last pictures were from the DC Airport and he was smiling, as was Anna. 

 

It's not necessarily evidence, but someone on another forum found online evidence that the Maryland house is already listed for rent -- presumably right away. So it seems they're probably fully removed. I think I would have gone to Florida, actually.

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DangerousMinds

DangerousMinds

Really??? You are far more political than I am - I get more involved further into the race (the debates are popcorn and favorite blankey events!). I thought Huckabee was distancing himself a little - I think his knee jerk "forgive and forget" statement blew up in his face. I know you must have caught something in the layout of the interviews or the posturing of the whole debacle makes you think Huck's team is involved. How so? (I'm not being snarky, I'm really curious). Is this to "help" Huck save face for having defended him? Wow. You stopped me in my tracks with that one.

Huck doesn't want anyone to bring up his own sons.

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EarlGreyTea

EarlGreyTea

(edited)

I don't remember Anna smiling. I remember he was carrying Marcus. She was hauling luggage. Some things never change! ;)

 

OMG are you serious?! The man has no shame. I'll never forget when they were just moving to D.C. and he walked in front while she juggled all the kids and luggage. And then when he fell asleep while she was in labor while all the women stayed awake. So much hate. He should be kissing her feet for sticking by his side, getting ready to deliver her fourth baby, and keeping her mouth shut about all of this. I bet she knows where the bodies are buried - she and Jana are close, after all.

Edited by EarlGreyTea
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cmr2014

cmr2014

You've raised a really good point...they're treating this as if it's a political scandal...but it isn't. It's an entertainment scandal with heavy religious overtones. People don't vote for the Duggars, they found them (for some reason) aspirational...the feel-good wholesome religious family...and they felt connected to them. (Sincere fans, not snarkaholics like myself.)

And that's why this response is coming across all wrong, IMHO. Huckabee's people are using the wrong playbook.

 

I think that this is a really interesting point, and it explains why the interview was so awful (I still find it hard to believe that they had any expert help). If they had made some effort to find common ground, to relate to the audience as parents, and as religious people: Instead, they deflected, minimized, and lied (or at least looked like liars). Millions of people go through very serious troubles with their children, have found themselves in situations they didn't know how to navigate, and have chosen to turn to their church community for help.

 

I think that part of the failure of the interview is their arrogance and their inability to be (rather than act) genuine and humble. Someone posted a link to a blog entry by a body-language expert who mentioned J'chelle saying "we felt like bad parents" and the expert said "no they didn't, they think they're great parents," and I think that's the truth.

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Mrsjumbo

Mrsjumbo

Bringing up another abuser- Stephen Collins. But only because I was flipping through channels & saw that "7th heaven" is playing on reruns on the UP channel. So it makes me wonder if someone will pick up "19k & c". I don't see how they could, seeing that 7th heaven was a fictional family but 19 k & c was supposed to be reality.

I really hope Josh is still in DC, we don't want him here in AR!

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frenchtoast

frenchtoast

Please follow the updated posted guidelines. Also, keep the following in mind for this topic:

 

  • Please do not psychoanalyze Josh, his sisters and his victims. We cannot know why he did what he did, and we cannot define his victims and how they respond.
  • Please do not speculate whether he continued molesting. This includes insinuating or implying that he may molest his children.
  • Please don't speculate whether Josh is capable of self harm. 
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Temperance

Temperance

(edited)

OMG are you serious?! The man has no shame. I'll never forget when they were just moving to D.C. and he walked in front while she juggled all the kids and luggage. And then when he fell asleep while she was in labor while all the women stayed awake. So much hate. He should be kissing her feet for sticking by his side, getting ready to deliver her fourth baby, and keeping her mouth shut about all of this. I bet she knows where the bodies are buried - she and Jana are close, after all.

Yeah the old TWOP (televisionwithoutpity) site has been pretty much trashed, but they used to do a list every week and then every year of the worst people on reality tv of the year.(The site, not the Duggar forum). As far as I remember the only one of the Duggars to make that list was Josh and this was long before this current scandal erupted. Josh made the list for falling asleep and not being at Anna's side consistently while she was in labor with Michael. I can't remember all of the reasons, but I think the car lot was also a part of it.  Also for letting his parents make him and his very pregnant wife go on tour around the country on speaking engagements with his family. Does anyone else remember this?

Edited by Temperance
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Sew Sumi

Sew Sumi

(edited)

I was just coming here to post that. 

 

I worry about who will deliver Anna's baby on such short notice. I suppose they could use the lady who delivered Marcus (remember the car ride from hell with Mechelle?). Hopefully, they won't consider that Miss Joy person that Jill sort of used (nowhere to be seen during her labor). I have no idea how midwives operate, but I would imagine that they want to monitor an entire pregnancy, not just the last month. Can they port Anna's file from the CNM they had lined up in the DC area? Is that permissible across state lines?

 

eta: I guess Golden Boy Molester will stay in the guest house on the compound until his house renovations are completed? No way he can venture out in public in NWA, even if people are generally favorable. There will be enough people giving him shit (rightfully so) that it would be prudent to continue keeping a very low profile for a while.

Edited by Sew Sumi
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