Jessa, Ben and Their Brood: Making a (Diaper) Mountain out of a Mold House

[cereality]

I think the idea of "only the woman can break a courtship" may have been theoretically true -- years ago when these fundie families envisioned how courtship would be hypothetically but did not have courting age kids. Most of these parents dated -- albeit maybe conservatively -- and have made up rules for courtships for their kids and it seems like those rules have evolved once courtships actually began and they saw what did or didn't work. The Bates added a "get to know you" period before asking a girl to court after Zach's broken courtship -- to me that pretty much sounds like dating, whether you're at home or out, with chaperones or not. Sure they're not jumping into bed but they are getting to talk to, listen to, eat with, and look at the other person to see if they have any interest in moving forward -- that's what dating couples do. I think it was a needed move. Zach even said back then that he asked a girl to court but felt so uncomfortable talking to her or even sitting close to her since he had never done that with a woman before; yet he practically made a commitment to that girl's family that he'd marry her absent any huge problems in the courtship. The way they do it now makes more sense -- "get to know you" or date and THEN court if you like what you see during dating; Kelly Bates has even said that by the time her kids court, they are making a commitment to get engaged -- i.e. find out the bad stuff during dating and break it off then, don't wait until courtship or until there's a ring.

[PinkSprinkles]

Why is there even a need for a courtship if you already have gotten to know someone? Isn't that what they say courtship is for? 

[Fuzzysox]

Drats Bin is still around! UGH RUN Jessa Run looks aren't everything.

[PinkSprinkles]

Beauty is definitely in the eye of the beholder because I don't find Bin (or Derrick) attractive in terms of outside appearance. 

Edited July 1, 2014 by PinkSprinkles

[Fuzzysox]

Bin's family owns a company that makes pre-fab homes. If Jessa doesn't get a new home from Bin's family I would be shocked! i've said it a 100 times before Bin is there to serve a purpose and that would be that Boob gets a discount if he needed some houses to buy.

[mythoughtis]

Why is there even a need for a courtship if you already have gotten to know someone? Isn't that what they say courtship is for?

 

 

Because you should at least be able to have a conversation with someone if you are trying to make sure you want to get married.   Zach Bates found out that courting someone you had only said Hi to didn't work so well.  hard to carry on a conversation that way.  Kelly Bates said they decided there  should be some 'spark' there before you agree to court, and you won't determine that unless you at least carry on some conversations first.  Think friendship first, then courting.   The truth is that they can't admit that the way dating people do it might work out better than arranged marriages.

Edited July 2, 2014 by mythoughtis

[Sew Sumi]

From what I've understood from Kelly, the courtship period is where they're basically permitted to go beyond friendship and fall in love. The Duggars appear to have copied this model in what they've permitted in the courtships of Benessa and Jerick. Kelly says by the time engagement rolls around, it's basically just the time to plan the wedding; it's not to be a lengthy time.

 

Michael Bates is also going through a long courtship, but in her case, the boyfriend is not allowed to be in that kind of relationship while in the Gothard school he's attending. He graduates in November (one of Chad's brothers did this as well; I think it's Gothard-ministry based). I expect Michael to have a ring then.

 

Jessa? Not so sure, but she's sporting a heart pendant with an S etched into it. I noticed it on the barrage of selfies Bin posted today. Gah! They may well be keeping their engagement under wraps for the sake of the show; everyone knows that Boob will milk this stuff out for as long as possible. At any rate, Justin was their chaperone this evening when they went out for dinner. How easy would it be to send the kid off to the arcade and sneak in a couple of smooches while he's gone? Or ply him with soda so he needs a bathroom break. There are a zillion ways to get rid of an 11 year old.

[Literata]

 

Michael Bates is also going through a long courtship, but in her case, the boyfriend is not allowed to be in that kind of relationship while in the Gothard school he's attending. He graduates in November (one of Chad's brothers did this as well; I think it's Gothard-ministry based). I expect Michael to have a ring then.

Oh, gag. As someone who has a soft spot for the Bateses, I keep hoping some of the Bates kids will distance themselves from Gothardism, but then again, I'm not sure how I think that can realistically happen.

 

It does make me happy that Alyssa seemed to be dressing a little less modestly than usual in her honeymoon photos, though. 

[Vincom]

Oh, gag. As someone who has a soft spot for the Bateses, I keep hoping some of the Bates kids will distance themselves from Gothardism, but then again, I'm not sure how I think that can realistically happen.

 

It does make me happy that Alyssa seemed to be dressing a little less modestly than usual in her honeymoon photos, though. 

Gil Bates is on the IBLP board of directors, and I'm hoping he's gotten fed up with all the info. on Gothard's "indiscretions" and he walks away.

[maraleia]

Again everyone keep your posts in the correct threads. It helps with the flow of conversation.

[PecanSandie]

Gil Bates is very supportive of Bill gothard.

One reason I'm willing to give Ben a pass is that as far as I can tell, his parents are not ATI.

[Literata]

 

I would love to see Jessa go to cosmetology school.  

I hate to snark on appearance, but I'd like to see her get some Proactiv. Are the kids not allowed to see a dermatologist, I wonder? Josiah could use one, too. 

[PinkSprinkles]

Their insurance may not cover specialty doctors like dermatologists. If you have to pay out of pocket for dermatologists it costs a fortune. Not to mention most Rx skin creams (the ones that work) and pills are very expensive (speaking from my own experience). 

Edited July 3, 2014 by PinkSprinkles

[DangerousMinds]

You can buy the same ingredients contained in Proactiv at any Walgreen's, CVS, Rite Aid, Target, or Walmart. Any products containing salicylic acid and/or benzyol peroxide will do.

[McManda]

I don't know where to put this, but the pharm tech in me itches.

 

Dermatologists are THE WORST at prescribing medications. Not because they don't know what they're doing, but because I'm pretty sure drug companies market to them. Seriously, it feels like drug companies "reformulate" existing medications, slap a new brand name on them, and send their drug reps to target dermatologists into prescribing these brand name meds with a dispense as written (meaning we can't sub a generic) and then they get all huffy when insurance companies won't pay for the medications because there's something mystical about the new brand name. Oracea is doxycycline, but about 10 times as expensive. Retin-A is tretinoin, but about 5 times as expensive.

 

TL;DR: seeing a dermatologist doesn't have to be as expensive as you think. If the Duggars have any kind of insurance, it's very possible that they could have covered medications, even for their skin.

 

But I can't recall ... do they have any aversions to medication? Obviously birth control is out, but antibiotics?

 

(To sorta tie this all together ...) Jessa's always been very pretty, but her personality has started to wear on me. A bit too ... mean. I can't pinpoint it, really, just that she seems like a "mean girl" (a la the movie) And Bin? Yeaaaah... between him and Derick? I'll take Derick a thousand times over. Bin seems very superficial - all look and no substance.

[NausetGirl]

This. I actually feel like this is more common than people want to admit.

True enough.  Archie and Edith DIDN'T on their wedding night...  

I thought I heard several times that the couple sets their limits in terms of physical contact.  But they all seem to follow the same pattern.  And I think that some of their restrictions will make for an awkward wedding night.  Jessa seems much more mature than Ben.  I just don't get the attraction.  But then I remind myself that we only see a small portion of their lives and then only what they and TLC want us to see.  Maybe Jill is a bit childish in her raptures over Derick, but I honestly think they have a better chance at marriage than Jessa and Ben.  Neither Jessa nor Ben have real jobs or a decent education.  How the heck are they going to lives?  Off TLC residuals?

 

A minor point but I don't think reality "performers" earn residuals as they're not members of any of the entertainment unions.  If someone knows differently, I'd appreciate an update - and stand corrected.

[Sew Sumi]

Looks like Bin's new "occupation" is Being Duggar. He attended a parade with a bunch of the Duggar kids during the middle of the day today. Shouldn't he be working at...ANYTHING to prepare himself for supporting his high-maintenance girlfriend?

 

Follow Derick's example and get a JOB. It may mean missing out on a couple  (okay, several) selfie-ops, but if you're going to get married with the stipulations that Gothard and (in Bin's case) Doug Phillips have put forth with an uneducated, barefoot and pregnant wife, you gotta support that.

 

I mention Phillips because Bin's dad has a lot of Calvinist stuff on his Facebook. Phillips was a strong adherent of Calivinist doctrine. Bin himself used to quote Spurgeon a lot on his IG, but he's backed off most of that in favor of pics of himself and his girlfriend.

[NausetGirl]

I often wonder if guys are turn away for courting because they do not want to be part of the dog and pony show and toe the JimBoob line.

 

Have had the same thought.  After all, Michelle was a mere 17 when she got married.  At their "advanced" ages, aren't the 3 remaining single older girls dangerously close to Old Maid territory?

I don't understand why Jessa goes by @JessaSeewald on Twitter. Does this mean they are "secretly" engaged? She can't hug him or hold hands but she can use his last name? Weird.  I know Jill started going by @JillDillard on Twitter after she got engaged to Derrick. She changed her last name the same day she got engaged from what I have read.  I am not sure how long Jessa has been using that handle, but if Boob and Mullet have not officially approved of an engagement, I am surprised they would allow her to start using his last name already.

 

Using the last name before marriage?  Never heard of that EVER - in any culture.  Very very odd...

[Micks Picks]

I think those expecting growth from Ben because he is enrolled in college will be disappointed.. I clicked on the college listed on his FB page and it seems to be a 2 year college and brags about offering cosmetology and barber among other things.  I don't see it as a place of intellectual growth or practice in logic.  He can go for a semester, or part of a semester if it's a shorter insurance course, and still state he is going to college.  He just is not getting the experience that college implies to most of us.  We would expect him to be taking 5 classes per semester so he could graduate in 2 years, and that is not the case.

[Fuzzysox]

I saw a picture of Bin in  a hard hat next to Jessa on the Pickles n Hairspray FB page. Does that mean that Bin is working construction like I read somewhere?

[Higgins]

Their insurance may not cover specialty doctors like dermatologists. If you have to pay out of pocket for dermatologists it costs a fortune. Not to mention most Rx skin creams (the ones that work) and pills are very expensive (speaking from my own experience). 

And many don't work. My daughter tried them all including tretnoin and what ended up working is sulpher ointment. He skin is and has been clear for a year.

 

I think those expecting growth from Ben because he is enrolled in college will be disappointed.. I clicked on the college listed on his FB page and it seems to be a 2 year college and brags about offering cosmetology and barber among other things.  I don't see it as a place of intellectual growth or practice in logic.  He can go for a semester, or part of a semester if it's a shorter insurance course, and still state he is going to college.  He just is not getting the experience that college implies to most of us.  We would expect him to be taking 5 classes per semester so he could graduate in 2 years, and that is not the case

 

There is nothing wrong with vocational education. In fact, you are more likely to get a decent job from a trade opposed to a liberal arts degree. Check out http://www.mikeroweworks.com/home. There are thousands of skilled occupations that they can't fill because a lack of vocational training in this country. Many of these jobs can earn over $100,000 per year. We should stop pushing everyone towards 4 year degrees. Way too many are graduating with debt and unemployable majors. There is nothing wrong with hard work.

Edited July 3, 2014 by psychnurse

[Skittl1321]

 

Using the last name before marriage?  Never heard of that EVER - in any culture.  Very very odd...

 

Except maybe as a 12 year old and a TV crush, that is absolutely bizarre.

 

I remember my mother chiding me when, my last year of college, before marriage, but after engagement I changed my email address from Skittl1321 to FirstNameM for a more professional look.  She thought it was premature to already start using my husband's last initial.  I had to remind her it was actually MY middle initial, and would work even if we didn't get married.

 

I can understand Jessa claiming the name, before someone else does and creates a satire account- but save it until the marriage. They aren't even engaged!

Edited July 3, 2014 by Skittl1321

[Absolom]

Reality shows don't generally pay residuals.  TLC shows don't pay residuals. 

 

I agree on locking up the accounts, but don't use them until the wedding is in sight (like a week before) or until afterward.  It looks immature, silly, and presumptuous to me. 

[Fostersmom]

Actually, Jessa already using his last name on social media is more and more typical these days of young women. I don't understand it or agree with it, but I see it all the time. My nephew's girl friend has done it, I've seen it with my young employees too. It seems the current generation has decided they can just make up marriage, families, and names. Look at Facebook pages and you see all sorts of people listed as siblings or spouses, when you know they aren't, and names being used in all their social media accounts that they have no legal ties to.

[Almost 3000]

@Absolom ~ Its sort of the social media's version of writing your future wedded name on your high school notebook. I'm really surprised JB & Michelle let Jessa do that but then they probably weren't aware of it. As much as they think they have a lock down on their kids courting behavior that's one area that by its very design could slip by them.

[Absolom]

Just like Jessa and Ben can't go a day without a selfie?  Jim Bob and Michelle must not have a clue. 

[PinkSprinkles]

It seems like it'd be bad luck to go by your new last name before the ring is on the finger and the paperwork has been filled out. Not to mention very forward. Bin may get tired of Jessa's family and end the relationship because he can't take it anymore. 

[trimthatfat]

I think Jessa snagged 'jessaseewald' or whatever the name is on instagram before anyone else could. I think it was a business move.

[Absolom]

Snag it yes, use it no. 

[starfire]

Fuzzysox, on 01 Jul 2014 - 12:27 PM, said:

Drats Bin is still around! UGH RUN Jessa Run looks aren't everything.

 

 

I'm not convinced that Jessa is any better of a catch than Bin.

[Ljohnson1987]

They're going on a mission trip. I thought they went to El Salvador around Christmas time. 

[Fuzzysox]

Just coming to post about their mission trip. JessaBlessa what the heck can she offer people who are suffering? And Bin does he have a real job that allows him to pick up and go whenever he wants? 

Edited July 5, 2014 by Fuzzysox

[Sew Sumi]

I hope Bin can find an internet connection to keep up his output of Selfies of the Day. I really don't want to be innundated with 10 a day for a couple of weeks after they get back.

 

As for that hard hat selfie, that's a few months old. Blessa has already grown out her short-phase bangs.

 

 

[MrMattyMatt]

Here is when Jessa went to El Salvador a few years back.  It was mainly selfies and with orphans and sick people.   Other than that it looks like they toured around, did some "skits" and handed out gifts...

 

http://lh4.ggpht.com/-hhvLYYhJqMw/TRzTK_bUV3I/AAAAAAAADkM/Sr-OY75CFKc/IMG_4286.JPG

[cmr2014]

Maybe the mission trip will give Bin some cred in ATI circles, and he will be able to get a job at HQ when he returns?

 

JB is a business man. There is no logical reason to allow his daughter to court an 18 year old windshield repair tech unless he saw some potential for the future. Maybe he had a plan all along?

 

Personally, I'm much more liberal than the Duggars (surprise!), and I would not send those two horny teenagers on a trip to the jungle. This "courtship" has been dragging for a year, and I don't think they will just go on much longer without touching at all. And, oddly enough, I think that their over-supervised courtship makes them believe that no only is it virtually impossible to touch without it leading to sex, but they cannot be expected to have any self control at all. So, if they do find themselves alone one day, and their hands happen to touch . . .

[bigskygirl]

I seriously doubt they would be allowed to go by themselves without chaperones since they are not married or even engaged. They probably will film the trip for the show *gag me*  Those poor people are suffering enough without a couple of young famewhorers taking pictures and pretending to care about the orphans and sick citizens.

[PecanSandie]

The Duggars have this weird belief about matching their kids with a suitor based on Jim Bob's impression of the suitors personality. They firmly believe in the old adage that opposites attract. So that is why loud, brash, show off Jessa was paired with the younger and soft spoken people pleaser Ben. However that backfired when Ben became enamored of the fame.

They follow this weird, anti-biblical belief called the four temperaments.

Seriously, for people that claim to be born agains, they leave no room at all for the Holy Spirit. Everything revolves around following 7 principles to get the payoff of a good life.

But as the outside world knows now, Bill Gothard was just a nasty old sexual pervert, not a man of God.

[cmr2014]

 

 

The Duggars have this weird belief about matching their kids with a suitor based on Jim Bob's impression of the suitors personality. They firmly believe in the old adage that opposites attract. So that is why loud, brash, show off Jessa was paired with the younger and soft spoken people pleaser Ben. However that backfired when Ben became enamored of the fame.

They follow this weird, anti-biblical belief called the four temperaments.

 

Thank you for the insight. It was foolish of me to try to apply logic or reason to their actions.

[PecanSandie]

Aw thanks! It's sort of weird for me now, being on the outside looking in after almost getting sucked n to that mess.

[Absolom]

The mission trip is a family affair.  There are photos out with a bunch of the howlers in the airport. 

[cereality]

I think mission trips are a big deal in the fundie communities and even in some mainstream Christian communities in the south; I think it will give some street cred and some employability for jobs like ones held by Josh. It's one thing to be on social media all the time spreading your world views, it's another to go to another country and do something (and I'm sure when you're talking to employers you talk about whatever the official project was -- not that you were spending the day taking selfies in the jungle with the poor kids or staring at your intended).

[PecanSandie]

Mission trips are big in the South in the summer. It always kind of amazes me that people need to hear the Gospel or receive help in the city these people live in, but instead they spends ten of thousands of dollars to fly to another country and do the things they won't do at home.

[Vincom]

Mission trips are big in the South in the summer. It always kind of amazes me that people need to hear the Gospel or receive help in the city these people live in, but instead they spends ten of thousands of dollars to fly to another country and do the things they won't do at home.

I agree! Send the money to the full-time missionaries and stay home! Now a short-term mission like Derick had could be useful to the full-timers as well as the residents of the area.

[PecanSandie]

I agree with you ^. Derrick's trip was 2 years. He devoted some substantial time there. But the two week vacation mission trips I'm not that much into.

[alt0233]

Is he moving there? I thought he was taking classes as a local campus, not moving away for school. Of he is, I agree that being long distance-ish would definitely increase temptation - but on the flip side in pleasantly surprised that he's taking school seriously enough to go away for it!

[trimthatfat]

I'm not convinced that Jessa is any better of a catch than Bin.

 

Same. Honestly, I don't see much of anything in Jessa. She's cute, but I don't find her as 'omggorgeous' as some do. I see women on the train every week day who are prettier than Jessa. I find it pretty telling that numerous things have been said about Jill's personality - she's sweet, she's loving, she's selfless, etc. But nothing much about Jessa.

 

The attraction between Jessa and Ben is purely physical. I can't imagine Jessa being a supportive, loving wife, nor can I picture Ben as the head of any household.

[CofCinci]

I can't imagine Jessa being a supportive, loving wife

I can. She has been a loving mother to her sibling-children for a decade. With the right partner, all that love and energy can make her an incredible wife.

[BuddyMom]

I don't believe that any of the Duggar children have been able to become who they truly are. Their parents have crushed any spirit from them and created little fundie robots. Jessa could have been a lovely, smart, motivated young woman but she hasn't been allowed to become any of those things. Her days are filled with taking selfies while trying to avoid taking care of her younger siblings. Very sad.

[trimthatfat]

I can. She has been a loving mother to her sibling-children for a decade. With the right partner, all that love and energy can make her an incredible wife.

Maybe if she were paired with someone else, I'd see it, but for now, with Ben, I don't. I'm not saying she's doomed for a mierable marriage, nor do I hope that, but I do think being married to Ben will be more stifling than anything else.

Edited July 6, 2014 by trimthatfat

[cereality]

I don't know -- I can see marriage with Ben going either way. Either it will be stifling as he will use their religion to exercise his authority/wisdom over Jessa and his family and she'll have to submit. Or I can see it going the other way -- he'll be so overwhelmed by everything about marriage -- from the physical part to having to provide for a princess who may give him the attitude that nothing is ever enough, that Jessa may end up "in charge" of that marriage. It would be a lot like Michelle and JB do it -- Michelle keeps sweet and doesn't contradict her husband publicly, but behind closed doors I get the sense that what Michelle wants is what happens. So Jessa could in fact end up forcing Ben into a regular job or having only 2-3 kids because she lays down the law with him behind closed doors that she will not live in a trailer with 10 kids and that she needs her material goods to be happy and he best figure out how to provide them, whether that means starting a business or learning a trade or whatever.