Jessa, Ben and Their Brood: Making a (Diaper) Mountain out of a Mold House

[GeeGolly]

8 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

As I posted in the Jed! thread, I question the timing of the posting of this picture. It went up around the time the Seewalds would have been at the Jedding reception.

Yup, good ole Jessa, still thinking she can throw out red herrings and fool the haters. Meanwhile, most everyone was watching the freaking wedding.

[Jynnan tonnix]

8 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

So do their parents and maternal grandparents. But we see how that's worked out! 

Possible it's just how the light is falling on the....uh...philtrum? or whatever that dip in your upper lip is called? ... 

Or a bubble....

Yeah, philtrum. I despise that word. What a horrible name for a feature that can be so lovely. Or am I just weird for even considering it a facial feature, much less one of my favorite ones?

[Churchhoney]

19 minutes ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

Yeah, philtrum. I despise that word. What a horrible name for a feature that can be so lovely. Or am I just weird for even considering it a facial feature, much less one of my favorite ones?

Agree. I think it's a lovely facial feature, too. I guess it just gets overlooked because it doesn't have a clear function so a common name never developed, maybe? 

Edited April 4, 2021 by Churchhoney

[floridamom]

That blanket thrown over Henry is filthy.

[Chicklet]

Well think how difficult it would be to smile or laugh without the philtrim? It's vestigial but it does allow for facial and mouth movements like taking a big bite of food, (and licking counters Duggars) so it really does still have a purpose. Here endeth your useless anatomy lesson of the day.

Edited April 4, 2021 by Chicklet

[SMama]

SGirl is 14 years old and has a bedtime. When she started middle school it changed from 8 to 9pm only because her swimming practice schedule changed. SGirl struggled with the change, sometimes crawling out of practice to sit on our laps, her body begging to shut down.

 I’m no mother of the year but I believe in schedules. Our daughter is a happy child when she is well rested. She can break the rules Friday and Saturday nights. But it’s back to schedule on Sunday nights.

Why aren’t the Seewald kids on a schedule? Did Ben’s parents raise them on a schedule?

Edited April 4, 2021 by SMama

[Chicklet]

35 minutes ago, SMama said:

Why aren’t the Seewald kids on a schedule?

They have no jobs, no school, no routine at all so I'm sure they don't see the need for any schedule. Which is the reason Duggar-time exists.

[ginger90]

8 hours ago, SMama said:

SGirl is 14 years old and has a bedtime. When she started middle school it changed from 8 to 9pm only because her swimming practice schedule changed. SGirl struggled with the change, sometimes crawling out of practice to sit on our laps, her body begging to shut down.

 I’m no mother of the year but I believe in schedules. Our daughter is a happy child when she is well rested. She can brake the rules Friday and Saturday nights. But it’s back to schedule on Sunday nights.

Why aren’t the Seewald kids on a schedule? Did Ben’s parents raise them on a schedule?

I’m a bad mom. Early on mine only got Saturday. I held to the fact Friday was a school night because they had school that day. 🤣😂

Edited April 4, 2021 by ginger90

[Tikichick]

On 4/4/2021 at 9:55 AM, SMama said:

SGirl is 14 years old and has a bedtime. When she started middle school it changed from 8 to 9pm only because her swimming practice schedule changed. SGirl struggled with the change, sometimes crawling out of practice to sit on our laps, her body begging to shut down.

 I’m no mother of the year but I believe in schedules. Our daughter is a happy child when she is well rested. She can break the rules Friday and Saturday nights. But it’s back to schedule on Sunday nights.

Why aren’t the Seewald kids on a schedule? Did Ben’s parents raise them on a schedule?

 

On 4/4/2021 at 10:31 AM, Chicklet said:

They have no jobs, no school, no routine at all so I'm sure they don't see the need for any schedule. Which is the reason Duggar-time exists.

Can you see Ben trying to explain to Jessa why the children are going to be on a schedule from now on (and hence Jessa will be on a schedule from now on) and putting his foot down and enforcing it?    That's only happening if Ben stepped up and took over the children and household entirely.   I don't see Ben having that kind of initiative, and I absolutely believe there's no way Jessa would ever comply.

[Churchhoney]

29 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

 

Can you see Ben trying to explain to Jessa why the children are going to be on a schedule from now on (and hence Jessa will be on a schedule from now on) and putting his foot down and enforcing it?    That's only happening if Ben stepped up and took over the children and household entirely.   I don't see Ben having that kind of initiative, and I absolutely believe there's no way Jessa would ever comply.

And Jessa does take her parents as models. 

"Duggar Time" and kids falling asleep in their clothes on stairways are actual honored traditions for JB and M, I think. (and how many times has M been a Mother of the Year?) ..... I wouldn't be surprised if Jessa does not take that lightly! 

Edited April 5, 2021 by Churchhoney

[doodlebug]

4 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

And Jessa does take her parents as models. 

"Duggar Time" and kids falling asleep in their clothes on stairways are actual honored traditions for JB and M, I think. (and how many times has M been a Mother of the Year?) ..... I wouldn't be surprised if Jessa does not take that lightly! 

We've all seen Jessa's lazy housekeeping.  Of course, she's a lazy mother, too.  Her kids don't have schedules because, then, they might wake up in the morning like kids usually do and then Jessa would have to roll out of bed and attend to them, presuming Bin was already at the TTH conducting classes.  And, if they had regular bedtimes, she'd have no excuse for not giving them baths and putting them in pj's and making them brush their teeth before bed.  It takes no effort on her part to let them drop in their tracks wherever they happen to be and then Bin can toss them in their dirty beds fully clothed, crumbs all over their faces.  See?  So much simpler than having a routine.

[crazy8s]

this is where I see Jill being different than her siblings. She seems to now have some schedule, the boys have been shown to have "nap time/quiet time" for a long time, Izzy gets to school, gets picked up on a schedule. Jill is shown taking him, whether driving or walking. Derrick certainly has a school schedule. With Izzy in school he most likely has a regular bedtime. (if not for school reasons, then for Jill and Derick to have lotion time"🤢)

I think Jill likes the schedule structure

It seems Kendra, Lauren etc commented on the show about duggars being bad about time. I can't remember the context of that though

[Tikichick]

2 minutes ago, crazy8s said:

this is where I see Jill being different than her siblings. She seems to now have some schedule, the boys have been shown to have "nap time/quiet time" for a long time, Izzy gets to school, gets picked up on a schedule. Jill is shown taking him, whether driving or walking. Derrick certainly has a school schedule. With Izzy in school he most likely has a regular bedtime. (if not for school reasons, then for Jill and Derick to have lotion time"🤢)

I think Jill likes the schedule structure

It seems Kendra, Lauren etc commented on the show about duggars being bad about time. I can't remember the context of that though

I firmly believe a schedule has been a revelation for Jill, and has impacted the stress levels in that household in a positive way.  I can only imagine her trepidation and feelings of being overwhelmed making that change however.   I have no doubt it would have a positive effect on Jessa's household as well.   I suspect even Joy's home has more structure than Jessa's.

 I also think it would be a revelation for the single boys and the little girls left at home as well -- but that might lead to an urge to learn and discover things, so it will never be encouraged or permitted to take root. 

[MargeGunderson]

23 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

I firmly believe a schedule has been a revelation for Jill, and has impacted the stress levels in that household in a positive way.  I can only imagine her trepidation and feelings of being overwhelmed making that change however.   I have no doubt it would have a positive effect on Jessa's household as well.   I suspect even Joy's home has more structure than Jessa's.

 I also think it would be a revelation for the single boys and the little girls left at home as well -- but that might lead to an urge to learn and discover things, so it will never be encouraged or permitted to take root. 

They are taught from a young age that JB and Michelle are basically infallible and everything they do is the best way to do whatever it is. It would be heresy to suggest that, contrary to how they were raised, kids should have a schedule. If they started questioning anything that JB and Michelle did, where would it all end? With them as godless heathens, of course, so best not to deviate in the least from how they were brought up.

Edited April 5, 2021 by MargeGunderson

[Tikichick]

9 minutes ago, MargeGunderson said:

They are taught from a young age that JB and Michelle are basically infallible and everything they do is the best way to do whatever it is. It would be heresy to suggest that, contrary to how they were raised, kids should have a schedule. If they started questioning anything that JB and Michelle did, where would it all end? With them as godless heathens, of course, so best not to deviate in the least from how they were brought up.

It's easy to see that if you set up a system where you force people to live in a directionless, unstimulating and unscheduled, disheveled lump it ups the odds considerably that they eventually withdraw into depressed and docile creatures. 

[Zella]

1 hour ago, crazy8s said:

this is where I see Jill being different than her siblings. She seems to now have some schedule, the boys have been shown to have "nap time/quiet time" for a long time, Izzy gets to school, gets picked up on a schedule. Jill is shown taking him, whether driving or walking. Derrick certainly has a school schedule. With Izzy in school he most likely has a regular bedtime. (if not for school reasons, then for Jill and Derick to have lotion time"🤢)

I think Jill likes the schedule structure

It seems Kendra, Lauren etc commented on the show about duggars being bad about time. I can't remember the context of that though

I remember it happening in the Duggar marriage retreat episode. It's one of only 2 episodes I've ever watched. (The other was when Bunk Bed Jed and his twin "moved away" from the Big House into their separate twin beds.) 

 I can't remember all of them, but I am pretty sure that Abby, Kendra, and Ben definitely commented on a lack of structure that they had a hard time getting used to. Or some of them mentioned it and the others nodded along. The way they responded, I got the impression it had been something that they really struggled with. If Lauren has also commented on it, it wouldn't surprise me. My guess would be her family was also more organized and structured. 

[Tikichick]

5 minutes ago, Zella said:

My guess would be her family was also more organized and structured. 

Let's face it, the bar isn't very high.   A herd of cats left to their own devices probably qualifies.

[Zella]

1 minute ago, Tikichick said:

Let's face it, the bar isn't very high.   A herd of cats left to their own devices probably qualifies.

You're not wrong! A herd of cats would spend a few minutes in the TTH and quickly organize themselves into a highly functional squad to escape! LOL 

Edited April 5, 2021 by Zella

[Tikichick]

Just now, Zella said:

You're not wrong! A herd of cats would spend a few minutes in the TTH and quickly organize themselves into a highly functional squad to escape! LOL 

IMO any self respecting cat with a nose would nope out before crossing the threshold.  

[Zella]

1 minute ago, Tikichick said:

IMO any self respecting cat with a nose would nope out before crossing the threshold.  

Maybe they were disoriented from being catnapped and smuggled across the threshold! 

[GeeGolly]

It seems two of the Bates sisters are becoming somewhat successful as Influencers. I'm guessing at this point they're still only getting freebies in exchange for their advertising, but they advertise a lot. They're also getting savvy by asking their followers about input on decorating their homes and such, so they get questions about where they bought random items. From there they reach out to the stores and sometimes get more gigs.

The Bates sisters have 1/4 - 1/2 of the followers Jessa has and that has me wondering if Jessa has tried to do more influencing and keeps getting 'nos' because the Duggar name is too polarizing. I would think she could clothe herself and the kids for free if she put some effort in. Of course she'd have to replace the birthing couches as it seems influencers only decorate in white, gray and black.

With the fate of the show seemingly up in the air I would think Jessa and Ben would be scrambling for a way to make some money. I get that Jessa is lazy, but influencing is right up her alley, she'd never need to leave the home and she already posts pictures and videos. 

[Nysha]

I think Eden or Haven would fit in with the other kids or Zion or Shiloh. When I was a kid in the 70s someone at our church named their baby boy Nazareth Emmanuel.

[Tikichick]

4 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

It seems two of the Bates sisters are becoming somewhat successful as Influencers. I'm guessing at this point they're still only getting freebies in exchange for their advertising, but they advertise a lot. They're also getting savvy by asking their followers about input on decorating their homes and such, so they get questions about where they bought random items. From there they reach out to the stores and sometimes get more gigs.

The Bates sisters have 1/4 - 1/2 of the followers Jessa has and that has me wondering if Jessa has tried to do more influencing and keeps getting 'nos' because the Duggar name is too polarizing. I would think she could clothe herself and the kids for free if she put some effort in. Of course she'd have to replace the birthing couches as it seems influencers only decorate in white, gray and black.

With the fate of the show seemingly up in the air I would think Jessa and Ben would be scrambling for a way to make some money. I get that Jessa is lazy, but influencing is right up her alley, she'd never need to leave the home and she already posts pictures and videos. 

You just pointed out something that made me recognize one reason why things may be playing out rather differently between two similar overall families, depression.   It presented itself as a stark possibility when you talked about what's going on with the Bates sisters and contrasted it with Jessa in particular.

Her personality sets my teeth on edge and I have found myself in the past having to call myself out for not cutting her some slack for surviving a tough situation while being forced to live with her abusers while being told she was significantly to blame, and then had to suffer things going public.   Given her upbringing, her experiences and the situation she's in depression would be expected even without any genetic predisposition that might exist.   Hopefully there is room in that prison of nonsense to understand that even people of faith can suffer depression and treatment can help.  I worry more and more that those with the power find it easier to control the herd when they're docile and depressed.  

[cmr2014]

14 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

You just pointed out something that made me recognize one reason why things may be playing out rather differently between two similar overall families, depression.   It presented itself as a stark possibility when you talked about what's going on with the Bates sisters and contrasted it with Jessa in particular.

Her personality sets my teeth on edge and I have found myself in the past having to call myself out for not cutting her some slack for surviving a tough situation while being forced to live with her abusers while being told she was significantly to blame, and then had to suffer things going public.   Given her upbringing, her experiences and the situation she's in depression would be expected even without any genetic predisposition that might exist.   Hopefully there is room in that prison of nonsense to understand that even people of faith can suffer depression and treatment can help.  I worry more and more that those with the power find it easier to control the herd when they're docile and depressed.  

I think it's entirely possible that ALL of the Duggar kids suffer from some level of situational depression.

They have lived for years without friends, school, sports and activities, and any type of entertainment -- books, magazines, television, movies, etc. (they do seem to have taken an interest in board games recently which is something). They also have an extremely poor diet, get little exercise, and have an erratic sleep schedule. The atmosphere at the TTH is (IMO) oppressive with no physical privacy, and "thought police" monitoring for any statements that might be outside the accepted norms. There is also little for them to look forward to (other than marriage). They won't be going to school, going on dates, meeting new people, launching careers, or making any other large or small life decisions. Each day is -- and will continue to be -- largely like the last one.

I don't think there's any surprise that they almost always seem to thrive once they are married and away from home (the exceptions to this would be Josh and Josiah whose wives -- I believe -- are serving as off-site monitors who report back to the TTH).

I hope that they notice how much happier and more relaxed Jill has been recently and give some thought to therapy, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

[Tikichick]

2 minutes ago, cmr2014 said:

I don't think there's any surprise that they almost always seem to thrive once they are married and away from home (the exceptions to this would be Josh and Josiah whose wives -- I believe -- are serving as off-site monitors who report back to the TTH).

I hope that they notice how much happier and more relaxed Jill has been recently and give some thought to therapy, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

Isn't Josiah the one married to Lauren?    I hadn't heard anything about her being a snitch.    I thought Josiah was actually seeming happier out of the TTH, if I even have the correct Duggar in mind.   

I would imagine any notion that Jill is happy or thriving is being sneered at and stomped on hard as signs of evil at work in her life and not genuine happiness that will last.   I expect if exposure to Jill appears to cause any envy, doubts, curiosity she will become absolutely off limits. 

[Zella]

6 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

Isn't Josiah the one married to Lauren?    I hadn't heard anything about her being a snitch.    I thought Josiah was actually seeming happier out of the TTH, if I even have the correct Duggar in mind.   

I would imagine any notion that Jill is happy or thriving is being sneered at and stomped on hard as signs of evil at work in her life and not genuine happiness that will last.   I expect if exposure to Jill appears to cause any envy, doubts, curiosity she will become absolutely off limits. 

I think Josiah is happy with being a dad. He and Lauren may also have reached an understanding with each other--it wouldn't surprise me to learn that they are happier now that they have seemed to largely abandon social media--but in the beginning, I thought they both seemed miserable as hell. 

[lascuba]

5 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

It seems two of the Bates sisters are becoming somewhat successful as Influencers. I'm guessing at this point they're still only getting freebies in exchange for their advertising, but they advertise a lot. They're also getting savvy by asking their followers about input on decorating their homes and such, so they get questions about where they bought random items. From there they reach out to the stores and sometimes get more gigs.

The Bates sisters have 1/4 - 1/2 of the followers Jessa has and that has me wondering if Jessa has tried to do more influencing and keeps getting 'nos' because the Duggar name is too polarizing. I would think she could clothe herself and the kids for free if she put some effort in. Of course she'd have to replace the birthing couches as it seems influencers only decorate in white, gray and black.

With the fate of the show seemingly up in the air I would think Jessa and Ben would be scrambling for a way to make some money. I get that Jessa is lazy, but influencing is right up her alley, she'd never need to leave the home and she already posts pictures and videos. 

I wouldn't think so, only because the Duggar name hasn't stopped the rest of them from getting influencer gigs--and then losing those gigs only after enough people complain to the companies. Considering Jessa's track record, I think it's more likely that she's seen what's happened with advertisers with her sisters and decided not to even bother trying, because she can't stand the idea of the story being that she lost an advertiser because so many haters bombarded the company. Look how quickly she gave up on cooking videos after all the mockery she got over the first (and only?) one.  Plus, I really don't think influencing would be her type of thing regardless of the circumstances. She's never been a prolific or even consistent poster. The impression I've always gotten from her is that social media is part of her job to keep the show going, and she does it reluctantly and with little effort, especially because she and Ben are forbidden from posting the fire and brimstone content they prefer.

[lascuba]

9 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

Isn't Josiah the one married to Lauren?    I hadn't heard anything about her being a snitch.    I thought Josiah was actually seeming happier out of the TTH, if I even have the correct Duggar in mind.   

I would imagine any notion that Jill is happy or thriving is being sneered at and stomped on hard as signs of evil at work in her life and not genuine happiness that will last.   I expect if exposure to Jill appears to cause any envy, doubts, curiosity she will become absolutely off limits. 

I know I'm biased against Jill, but I think her happiness would be fairly easy to dismiss on the grounds that she was also the happiest of the siblings in the TTH. She's just naturally inclined to be happy in whatever situation as long as things are stable and comfortable and she can twist her mind to avoid any cognitive dissonance.

[Tikichick]

Just now, Zella said:

I think Josiah is happy with being a dad. He and Lauren may also have reached an understanding with each other--it wouldn't surprise me to learn that they are happier now that they have seemed to largely abandon social media--but in the beginning, I thought they both seemed miserable as hell. 

I agree, I suspect that they have gotten to know each other and may have worked out a way of life that suits them both, and I think they are both enjoying their daughter.   I also wonder if Lauren may have found her niche, an outlet for some of her talents and is feeling more content, easing some of the tension.   That little fall festival she planned looked like it beat the pants off anything the producers have ever designed for the show, and I think I heard she's doing some event or party planning in their social circle too.   I wouldn't have expected her to be one to step out and look for purpose to her days, but I give her props for finding ways to survive that cult. 

1 minute ago, lascuba said:

I know I'm biased against Jill, but I think her happiness would be fairly easy to dismiss on the grounds that she was also the happiest of the siblings in the TTH. She's just naturally inclined to be happy in whatever situation as long as things are stable and comfortable and she can twist her mind to avoid any cognitive dissonance.

Except that she was clearly pretty stressed out and miserable for a good couple years there early in her marriage. 

[lascuba]

7 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

 

Except that she was clearly pretty stressed out and miserable for a good couple years there early in her marriage. 

Well, yes, because she was a new mom (after having a c-section that went against all her crunchy midwifery dreams) in a foreign country that didn't at all live up to her missionary fantasies. Once things stabilized, she was fine.

Childhood siblings dynamics come into play as well, I think. I would imagine that, not matter what's happened in the intervening years, Jessa wouldn't take seriously the advice of the sister who was the favorite, the first to snitch about any ungodly behavior, the only who would publicly slap down a sister who even hints that she might want something different from her current life.

[Tikichick]

Just now, lascuba said:

Well, yes, because she was a new mom (after having a c-section that went against all her crunchy midwifery dreams) in a foreign country that didn't at all live up to her missionary fantasies. Once things stabilized, she was fine.

Childhood siblings dynamics come into play as well, I think. I would imagine that, not matter what's happened in the intervening years, Jessa wouldn't take seriously the advice of the sister who was the favorite, the first to snitch about any ungodly behavior, the only who would publicly slap down a sister who even hints that she might want something different from her current life.

Looked to me like things were very tense in their household long after they were back in Arkansas, while Derick was in school for ministry and until maybe the last year or so.

I agree, Jessa isn't about to take advice.  Not that I think Jill is giving any, particularly to Jessa.  I do think that Jessa is one of the siblings most likely to notice changes in Jill if they're ever in the same place, and if she's keeping tabs on social media, which I don't doubt for a minute.   Even if Jessa tells herself Jill's a complete mess, there has to be some part of herself that recognizes Jill is making progress in ways Jessa herself knows she isn't.   I wouldn't be surprised if down deep Jessa is wrestling with some thoughts, or at the very least determined to stuff them down somewhere deep as possible.

[GeeGolly]

I would hazard to guess Jessa, and part of Jill, thinks Jessa is winning at this game called life. I'm not sure anyone within Fundyworld would think Jill is making progress.

Jessa is living the life Jill wanted. Pushing babies out with ease, hanging with JB, M and the siblings and she has a preacher husband.

Even if Jill is happy now, maybe even proud of herself for "walking through" a difficult situation with her parents, I bet she still does the woulda, shoulda, couldas. 

 

[lascuba]

17 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

Looked to me like things were very tense in their household long after they were back in Arkansas, while Derick was in school for ministry and until maybe the last year or so.

I agree, Jessa isn't about to take advice.  Not that I think Jill is giving any, particularly to Jessa.  I do think that Jessa is one of the siblings most likely to notice changes in Jill if they're ever in the same place, and if she's keeping tabs on social media, which I don't doubt for a minute.   Even if Jessa tells herself Jill's a complete mess, there has to be some part of herself that recognizes Jill is making progress in ways Jessa herself knows she isn't.   I wouldn't be surprised if down deep Jessa is wrestling with some thoughts, or at the very least determined to stuff them down somewhere deep as possible.

Oh, that's a given.

I think Jill and Jessa prove true the idea that it's the sibling who's the truest of believers that ends up leaving, while the one who clearly has never been all that into it stays, because they figured out early how to live with the bullshit so any other bullshit that comes up doesn't throw them. If it were me, I probably wouldn't take Jill's progress all that  seriously, because as a child and teen she was genuinely happy in a household where I struggled, and anyone with the disposition to be happy in such a situation is someone who's so differently from me that their life doesn't at all apply to me, no matter the progress.

[Tikichick]

52 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I would hazard to guess Jessa, and part of Jill, thinks Jessa is winning at this game called life. I'm not sure anyone within Fundyworld would think Jill is making progress.

Jessa is living the life Jill wanted. Pushing babies out with ease, hanging with JB, M and the siblings and she has a preacher husband.

Even if Jill is happy now, maybe even proud of herself for "walking through" a difficult situation with her parents, I bet she still does the woulda, shoulda, couldas. 

 

IDK if Jill could be as noticeably relaxed as she is now if she were absolutely pining for a life like Jessa's.   Old habits die hard and those ideas were hard wired in her for many formative years, so that could very well be.

I really struggle to accept that Jessa can sell herself the story that she's winning when she and her preacher husband are hard pressed to keep from openly sniping at one another, instead settling for merely openly cold disdain and ignoring each other.

[lascuba]

18 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

IDK if Jill could be as noticeably relaxed as she is now if she were absolutely pining for a life like Jessa's.   Old habits die hard and those ideas were hard wired in her for many formative years, so that could very well be.

I really struggle to accept that Jessa can sell herself the story that she's winning when she and her preacher husband are hard pressed to keep from openly sniping at one another, instead settling for merely openly cold disdain and ignoring each other.

Michelle had a breakdown when she had 6-7 kids and still stayed the course, and things eventually "worked out" for her. Hell, plenty of non-religious people stay in toxic marriages because "marriages take work," and "all relationships haves struggles," etc. I wouldn't say Jessa was particularly happy with her life, but I'd guess that she does think that she's on the right path and any discontent she's feeling now is just a rough patch.

[GeeGolly]

1 hour ago, Tikichick said:

IDK if Jill could be as noticeably relaxed as she is now if she were absolutely pining for a life like Jessa's.   Old habits die hard and those ideas were hard wired in her for many formative years, so that could very well be.

I really struggle to accept that Jessa can sell herself the story that she's winning when she and her preacher husband are hard pressed to keep from openly sniping at one another, instead settling for merely openly cold disdain and ignoring each other.

IMO, Jill's more relaxed demeanor comes from Derick's and JB's feud being someone resolved and acceptance. She's learned life didn't totally fall apart beyond the TTH. Jill has said she's hopeful that with time her relationships with her family will improve. I don't think she's at home perseverating over it, but I do believe she longs to be a more integrated part of the family again.

Jessa's a cold fish. I'm not sure the silence with Ben stirs up any great emotions in her. She'll speak to him when needed, nicely or not so nicely and then go about her day. I'm guessing she thinks they're as happy as most couples are.

[Tikichick]

10 minutes ago, lascuba said:

Michelle had a breakdown when she had 6-7 kids and still stayed the course, and things eventually "worked out" for her. Hell, plenty of non-religious people stay in toxic marriages because "marriages take work," and "all relationships haves struggles," etc. I wouldn't say Jessa was particularly happy with her life, but I'd guess that she does think that she's on the right path and any discontent she's feeling now is just a rough patch.

It's possible.  It's also human to have doubts.  Even in their world they remember and call attention to doubts when fellowshipping their success stories.

Unlike Michelle's situation, a significant part of Jessa and Ben's struggle is their relationship, which means they're probably not able to give or receive much support from each other.   Jessa and Ben are young.  Hopefully they're prepared to buckle up, because their rough patch not only doesn't appear to have any let up in sight, but the workload is about to increase in a few months with another baby that one of them at least does not seem particularly excited about.   They were already living at the foot of diaper mountain with two children to care for.  

[Tikichick]

1 minute ago, GeeGolly said:

IMO, Jill's more relaxed demeanor comes from Derick's and JB's feud being someone resolved and acceptance. She's learned life didn't totally fall apart beyond the TTH. Jill has said she's hopeful that with time her relationships with her family will improve. I don't think she's at home perseverating over it, but I do believe she longs to be a more integrated part of the family again.

Jessa's a cold fish. I'm not sure the silence with Ben stirs up any great emotions in her. She'll speak to him when needed, nicely or not so nicely and then go about her day. I'm guessing she thinks they're as happy as most couples are.

I agree Jill hopes to maintain her bonds with her family.

Absolutely Jessa's a cold fish.   It's also been pointed out how much she aspires to be seen following the example of her parents.   I don't think there's any way she's at peace with the situation between Ben and herself when she considers the image she wants to project.

[Quilt Fairy]

Isn't the point of an influencer to show how their life is (at least in some aspect) better than yours?  How a particular item is making their already great life even greater, so if you, humble viewer, want a great life like theirs you should buy that item?   Now I'm dropping in on this thread for the first time in a great while (I normally only keep up with the Dillards), but from what I've read in the last 20 pages there is really nothing in Jessa's life that qualifies as great.   And any obvious thing for her to promote, like kid's clothes, would require Jessa to actually clean up her kids and have a clean, attractive background for the shoot. 

Have Jessa and Ben publicly come out against public schooling for their kids? 

Is Ben teaching at the TTH?  Who is he teaching these days?  What subjects?  Since it's undoubtedly a mixed age class already, I'm surprised that he's not taking at least Spurge with him to class.  

What happened to Ben's interest in healthy eating?  Did it just fall by the road as the kids kept coming?  Better food is something that I'm surprised that Ben didn't actually insist on as Jessa's headship.  He's still at an age where he's proud of his body (he's not birthing the kids after all) and should want to keep it in shape. 

[GeeGolly]

1 hour ago, Quilt Fairy said:

Isn't the point of an influencer to show how their life is (at least in some aspect) better than yours?  How a particular item is making their already great life even greater, so if you, humble viewer, want a great life like theirs you should buy that item?   Now I'm dropping in on this thread for the first time in a great while (I normally only keep up with the Dillards), but from what I've read in the last 20 pages there is really nothing in Jessa's life that qualifies as great.   And any obvious thing for her to promote, like kid's clothes, would require Jessa to actually clean up her kids and have a clean, attractive background for the shoot. 

Have Jessa and Ben publicly come out against public schooling for their kids? 

Is Ben teaching at the TTH?  Who is he teaching these days?  What subjects?  Since it's undoubtedly a mixed age class already, I'm surprised that he's not taking at least Spurge with him to class.  

What happened to Ben's interest in healthy eating?  Did it just fall by the road as the kids kept coming?  Better food is something that I'm surprised that Ben didn't actually insist on as Jessa's headship.  He's still at an age where he's proud of his body (he's not birthing the kids after all) and should want to keep it in shape. 

It seems all of the things you've mentioned Jessa has made a halfhearted attempt at. She went "minimalist" in her home, but never quite got there. Spurgie and the kids have 'modeled' clothes from a consignment shop, but only by standing in the living room. Jessa has also showed the kids eating seaweed, drinking kombucha and eating (and smelling, lol) fish.

Its almost like she thinks she's hitting the mark just because she's Jessa, and seems to put in even less effort than the Vuolos. Or maybe she's failing, before she's actually failing, so no one can say she failed. (if that makes any sense)

If Carlin Bates can figure this out, anyone should be able to. This is the one job where if she actually spent an hour or two watching successful Influencers, she could probably pull it off.

That's if, her hate followers left her alone for the most part and didn't try and kill any gig she got.

Edited April 8, 2021 by GeeGolly

[Nysha]

1 hour ago, Quilt Fairy said:

What happened to Ben's interest in healthy eating?  Did it just fall by the road as the kids kept coming?  Better food is something that I'm surprised that Ben didn't actually insist on as Jessa's headship.  He's still at an age where he's proud of his body (he's not birthing the kids after all) and should want to keep it in shape. 

Ben is Jessa's headship in name only. I'm pretty sure JB is the true headship of their family and Ben is pretty much the least favorite of Jessa's children.

[Quilt Fairy]

8 minutes ago, Nysha said:

2 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

What happened to Ben's interest in healthy eating?  Did it just fall by the road as the kids kept coming?  Better food is something that I'm surprised that Ben didn't actually insist on as Jessa's headship.  He's still at an age where he's proud of his body (he's not birthing the kids after all) and should want to keep it in shape. 

Ben is Jessa's headship in name only. I'm pretty sure JB is the true headship of their family and Ben is pretty much the least favorite of Jessa's children.

Yeah, I get that.  My comment was mostly snark.  

[Nysha]

2 minutes ago, Quilt Fairy said:

Yeah, I get that.  My comment was mostly snark. 

Gotcha, I am an extremely literal person and have issues recognizing snark & sarcasm. That makes reading these forums even more fun. 😁

[Zella]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

It seems all of the things you've mentioned Jessa has made a halfhearted attempt at. She went "minimalist" in her home, but never quite got there. Spurgie and the kids have 'modeled' clothes from a consignment shop, but only by standing in the living room. Jessa has also showed the kids eating seaweed, drinking kombucha and eating (and smelling, lol) fish.

Its almost like she thinks she's hitting the mark just because she's Jessa, and seems to put in even less effort than the Vuolos. Or maybe she's failing, before she's actually failing, so no one can say she failed. (if that makes any sense)

If Carlin Bates can figure this out, anyone should be able to. This is the one job where if she actually spent an hour or two watching successful Influencers, she could probably pull it off.

That's if, her hate followers left her alone for the most part and didn't try and kill any gig she got.

You make a good point about all the stuff she has started and abandoned. She's as bad about abandoning plans as Jeremy and Derick, but it is less obvious since she's not launching businesses or taking jobs she then loses interest in.

I think Jessa is undoubtedly lazy, and that is part of the problem. But I think she might have more inherent determination to follow through than, say, Jeremy if she really set her mind to something. I think he abandons things because he gets bored. My guess is she abandons things because she gets her feelings hurt, even by constructive criticism. 

 

[GeeGolly]

7 minutes ago, Zella said:

You make a good point about all the stuff she has started and abandoned. She's as bad about abandoning plans as Jeremy and Derick, but it is less obvious since she's not launching businesses or taking jobs she then loses interest in.

I think Jessa is undoubtedly lazy, and that is part of the problem. But I think she might have more inherent determination to follow through than, say, Jeremy if she really set her mind to something. I think he abandons things because he gets bored. My guess is she abandons things because she gets her feelings hurt, even by constructive criticism. 

 

I definitely think her laziness and thin skin contribute to it.

[cmr2014]

8 hours ago, lascuba said:

Oh, that's a given.

I think Jill and Jessa prove true the idea that it's the sibling who's the truest of believers that ends up leaving, while the one who clearly has never been all that into it stays, because they figured out early how to live with the bullshit so any other bullshit that comes up doesn't throw them. If it were me, I probably wouldn't take Jill's progress all that  seriously, because as a child and teen she was genuinely happy in a household where I struggled, and anyone with the disposition to be happy in such a situation is someone who's so differently from me that their life doesn't at all apply to me, no matter the progress.

I question whether Jill was genuinely happy at the TTH. She always seemed wound really tight and, like most of them, the smile never reached the eyes. I don't know that Jessa would have been able to tell the difference -- I think smile=happy in the TTH -- but the change is notable to a casual observer, and I would think that Jessa could see it, too.

I think Jessa is simply too rigid in her thinking to make any course adjustments. I think that all of the Duggars and Duggar-adjacents are rigid in their thinking, but Jessa seems particularly vested in keeping things exactly the same. She and Ben were also extremely rigid and legalistic back when they were posting on religious subjects.

This is purely speculative, but I also think that the estrangement between Ben and Jessa has to do with this. Ben wants to do xxx, and it's a hard no from Jessa because that's not the way her parents do it. My other thought on this is that Jessa said something cruel to Ben and refuses to apologize. Whatever it is, I think it has to do with her rigidity an inability to embrace anything outside of her little world.

[emmawoodhouse]

Thin skin thirded. She blocked me very early on in her marriage (and time on social media). I can't even remember what I said, but when commenting on a fundie's page, I know to tread lightly. Not lightly enough for Miss Blessa, apparently.

[Zella]

The way Jinger Jessa wigged out when people were asking what Ben was up to also made me think she is hypersensitive to criticism. I could see being snippy if people were being rude, but they actually weren't. She also could have just ignored the question, but she didn't. 

Edited April 9, 2021 by Zella

[lascuba]

 

2 hours ago, cmr2014 said:

I question whether Jill was genuinely happy at the TTH. She always seemed wound really tight and, like most of them, the smile never reached the eyes. I don't know that Jessa would have been able to tell the difference -- I think smile=happy in the TTH -- but the change is notable to a casual observer, and I would think that Jessa could see it, too.

I think Jessa is simply too rigid in her thinking to make any course adjustments. I think that all of the Duggars and Duggar-adjacents are rigid in their thinking, but Jessa seems particularly vested in keeping things exactly the same. She and Ben were also extremely rigid and legalistic back when they were posting on religious subjects.

This is purely speculative, but I also think that the estrangement between Ben and Jessa has to do with this. Ben wants to do xxx, and it's a hard no from Jessa because that's not the way her parents do it. My other thought on this is that Jessa said something cruel to Ben and refuses to apologize. Whatever it is, I think it has to do with her rigidity an inability to embrace anything outside of her little world.

I remember Jill as the most enthusiastic of the bunch. There's a reason why she and Josh were given the most TH time when they were teens. All the other kids would obviously just repeat what they were told to stay. Jill genuinely meant all that nonsense. Even if she was faking happiness (and I honestly don't think she was), she was still the one making sure everyone stayed in line. People can grow and change, sure, but I can't blame anyone who had to grow up with her for side-eyeing her.

Jessa IS way too rigid, and I think she's also still enjoying being the "good" child in her parents eyes, since she definitely wasn't that as a child/teen. That might explain whatever conflict she has with Ben, because whatever he wants to do* goes against what JB wants, and Jessa doesn't want to lose JB's approval.

*Not to give Ben any credit, because I think the changes Ben wants to make is being loud and proud about their bigoted beliefs, which JB/TLC won't sanction and Jessa is too afraid of the public backlash.

[Tikichick]

12 hours ago, Zella said:

You make a good point about all the stuff she has started and abandoned. She's as bad about abandoning plans as Jeremy and Derick, but it is less obvious since she's not launching businesses or taking jobs she then loses interest in.

I think Jessa is undoubtedly lazy, and that is part of the problem. But I think she might have more inherent determination to follow through than, say, Jeremy if she really set her mind to something. I think he abandons things because he gets bored. My guess is she abandons things because she gets her feelings hurt, even by constructive criticism. 

 

It's also another potential sign of depression.