S04.E26: Blind Spot

[Primetimer]

Steve's gay panic threatens to ruin Kelly and Donna's beefcake calendar, and also someone's life.

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[Primetimer]

Take a journey through his alarm and contrition (and much more!) in the Visual Aids for 'Blind Spots'!

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[KateeBar]

And thus begins my decades-long crush on Cress Williams. He has aged really, really, really well, I must say.

I think you all mentioned it in a recent ep, but it is funny to me to look at the "hot bodies" of this show. While most are perfectly attractive men and I would not turn them down*, these bodies would not cut it on a current show. It's interesting.

*I can no longer find Brandon or Dylan attractive, despite my feelings for them during the original run.

[Princess Sparkle]

Is Brandon wearing a watch on each wrist in that calendar photo shoot?  Or is it a watch on one wrist and a bangle on the other?

[AndySmith]

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What possible reason could Brandon Douglas have for giving up this role: too flabby for a beefcake calendar, or too scared to play a gay guy?

Too flabby, if I had to guess. Back then, gay characters had to be played by actors who fit a certain mold (ie, in shape and on the prettier side of life). In many ways, they still do, since us chunkier gay men tend to only be on TV shows or TV shows when "gay man who is a fat slob tee hee" is the main part of the character. Granted, that's just my opinion...

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Brenda's cut off some of her hair

Didn't SD get into trouble with the producers over this?

[Lady Iris]

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This is David's piano teacher Holly, described on the podcast by one of us as a mannequin who came to life, but not all the way.

*shakes my fist* Curse you for making me laugh/snort in a most unladylike way as I was sneaking in forbidden internet ogling at work. I was not expecting that when I hit the gif button.

[Halo]

Wow, Holly is awkward and wooden-- "mannequin who came to life, but not all the way" is spot on. Is she wearing a wig? How are her clothes so oversized and simultaneously stiff? I stared at that gif for like twenty minutes trying to figure out how the actress was achieving those movements. 

[Kimmykun]

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What possible reason could Brandon Douglas have for giving up this role: too flabby for a beefcake calendar, or too scared to play a gay guy? 

Given that it's 1994, it was probably a combination of being too geeky-looking to be gay, and the flab.  

[spaceghostess]

I commuted to college. I did, however, have that sun candleholder (and the matching moon one) in my first post-grad apartment, circa 1996.

Edited, because commas.

Edited August 8, 2016 by spaceghostess

[txhorns79]

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Given that it's 1994, it was probably a combination of being too geeky-looking to be gay, and the flab.  

I just figured the actor either wasn't available or they just didn't care enough to try to get him back.  I know during the podcast they mentioned he didn't have a specific credit on a different show during the time period, but that wouldn't necessarily mean he would have been available to meet the show's shooting schedule. 

[FozzyBear]

I guess it's possible BD specifically didn't want to do this story, but I think it's more likely a scheduling conflict. 

Im still mad Dshawn wasn't given a bigger role. He would have been so much better than the football player Donna ended up dating.

[Tara Ariano]

I guess I just want to think the worst of people. (But in my defense, Will Smith's refusal to do a gay kiss in Six Degrees Of Separation was the year before.)

[heshy]

6 hours ago, Princess Sparkle said:

Is Brandon wearing a watch on each wrist in that calendar photo shoot?  Or is it a watch on one wrist and a bangle on the other?

It's the return of the Guatemalan friendship bracelet! Sadly, Curtis did not return with it.

[Sarah D. Bunting]

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He would have been so much better than the football player Donna ended up dating.

Um, that guy was in Mystery, Alaska? Maybe a little respect.

 

(hee)

[maxineofarc]

That I don't hate Steve has 100% to do with Ian Ziering's natural charm and 0% to do with Steve.

[AllyB]

7 hours ago, AndySmith said:

Didn't SD get into trouble with the producers over this?

Is SD's haircut the reason she is almost non-existent in this episode? I remember reading at the time that she got the hair cut midway through shooting an episode and it made things really difficult for the crew as they had scenes shot with her with long hair and had to scramble to find a wig so she could be in the rest of the episode.

[AllyB]

WTF was Steve so freaked out by being in a gay cafe? It's the 90s and he's from LA, surely it couldn't have been such a totally shocking shock! I'm 3 years younger than the gang and by the time I was in college gay bars/cafe were far from a shocking concept. If you accidentally ended up in one for reasons he had, you'd just make your phone call and grab a coffee while you waited for your tow truck/taxi. And I'm in a country where same-sex sexual activity was technically illegal up until the year before this episode was shot and condoms only became available without prescription the year before that. I'm assuming this was a major case of the writers being a bunch middle aged men who were behind the times on social norms and trying to be controversial while in reality just preaching to the long converted?

Edited August 8, 2016 by AllyB

[profreader]

Re whether or not the gay element had anything to do with the actor being recast, etc -- right around this time, All My Children had a gay character that they cast without telling the actor that the character was intended to be gay. The character was a high school teacher & coach (nicknamed by fans "the dullest gay man in the world" because the actor was handsome but didn't have much of a personality.) There was at least one article in which the actor said he felt "blindsided" when the producers revealed to him the direction they were taking the character -- but he made the "brave choice" to continue on, etc. etc. So even in 1994, taking a "gay role" was seen as potentially harmful to an actor's career -- especially one who was not established. (Interestingly, All My Children ended up with three gay male characters in that plotline, which was some kind of record at the time. But we always had to have articles about how the actors were definitely, definitely, definitely straight in real life, blah blah blah.)

I knew more than one closeted fraternity guy -- even in LA, it would have been hard to be openly gay in a frat -- and word would definitely have gotten to the alumni. 

I don't remember seeing this ep the first time around -- of all the guys, as Tara & Sarah point out, Steve would have had the least to worry about (sorry, pepperoni nips.) Of course Brandon is on hand to lecture anyone on social issues and how You're Doing It Wrong. It would have been verrrry interesting if they had made Brandon more directly the one suspected of being gay. Are you SURE you wouldn't like a cuppacino, Mr. Task Force?

Edited August 9, 2016 by profreader

[profreader]

I posted my thoughts re the actor possibly having issues with playing a gay role in the other thread. But, seeing screencaps of them both, I think the recast actor is cuter (for my personal taste at least) and fits more the "gay guy of the 90s" mold. I dug those kind of preppy-ish floppy haircuts.

It is funny how body types have evolved -- is it that gym science (exercise-ology? I'm not a science person) has gotten better? Somehow so many people have figured out the secret to abs and whatnot. At the time I thought Jason Priestly was super cute and I could see the appeal of the others-- but today Brandon, Dylan and David all look like scrawny twigs -- and definitely don't have what "tv bodies" seem to be expected to be nowadays.

Shannen Doherty can be really stunningly beautiful -- she must have been in a very unhappy place in her life, because in the episodes lately she looks unhealthy, strung out and like she just rolled out of the rag bag (to use my grandmother's expression.)

[Petunia13]

In 1991 or whatever, when  this episode was rumored of coming I assumed the gay character was going to be Josh and he and Brandon would have conflict or special moment. 

[Ames]

Just hearing you guys talk about an episode with D'Shawn makes me picture Cress Williams's smile and I get all swoony. He's perfect.

[bilgistic]

In that weird "smiling" picture, Dylan looks like he's wearing oversized dentures, yet somehow, his mouth is still bigger than the giant horse teeth.

I am crying laughing over the animated (but-not-completely) mannequin. She's like the Hall of Presidents at Disney World. ::shuddering::

[SoupThrower]

Yeah they would actually cast better body types these days with shows like Arrow and stuff (Oh how I loathe Arrow post season 2). 

D'Shawnnnnnnnnnn. Why couldn't he and Donna be a thing on the show. Why did she go back to David? You both could do better!!! Away from each other. 

Holly always freaked me out. Mannequin was 100% on tee. 

[SoupThrower]

43 minutes ago, Petunia13 said:

In 1991 or whatever, when  this episode was rumored of coming I assumed the gay character was going to be Josh and he and Brandon would have conflict or special moment. 

But Superhero, savior of the world Brandon Walsh has to be progressive and tell you that he is. 

Steve had trouble with gay characters didn't he? I remember that house fire episode. He wasn't too happy that David invited the gay internet notice group or something similar. I remember that Alison girl and how her girlfriend was always angry at her. 

[WhosThatGirl]

That adorable dog should  have replaced Brandon on this show.

Edited August 9, 2016 by WhosThatGirl

[WhosThatGirl]

7 hours ago, maxineofarc said:

That I don't hate Steve has 100% to do with Ian Ziering's natural charm and 0% to do with Steve.

This. However, in some reruns I notice how he kind of is a small voice of reason at times and I notice how much I like him a bit more.

And just because it should be noted again: I stated in the visual aids how that cute lab should have become a new cast member. Because..really.. 

Edited August 9, 2016 by WhosThatGirl

[bilgistic]

True story that I always forget to tell but I'm finally remembering, thanks to "#FreeAndrea": There was a woman who used to work at the front desk in my office, and her name is Andrea, pronounced "Ohn-dree-uh", just like Nana's name. Every single time I said her name, I thought about Nana Zuckerman.

"My" Andrea is also approximately 107 years old, just like Nana.

[Flamingo]

Not too long ago, one of my coworkers came to me to tell me she just found out someone (via someone else) in another department we work with on occasion is gay. Then, like Steve, she said she didn't care as long as the other person didn't hit on her. I just told her she was pretty egotistical to assume the person would be interested in her to begin with, that she had known her for two years and nothing had ever happened, and asked why would anything suddenly change just because she knows. I know I can't believe I was having this conversation more than 20 years after this episode. But, then, I do live in the once progressive but now rapidly devolving North Carolina.

One of the things that bothers me about the whole "as long as this gay person doesn't hit on me" narrative is that it seems to support the assumption that if someone of the same sex hits on you and you're heterosexual, somehow that's way worse than if someone of the opposite sex you aren't interested in hits on you. It basically implies that there will be some kind of "trouble" because they are deviants or something. It's gross.

[benteen]

Wasn't there an episode in Cheers first season where the customers want Sam to get rid of a couple of gay customers? 

[Tooch]

I had forgotten about Brenda shaming pregnant Andrea for pigging out. Fuuuuuuck offffff, Skinny Legs! 

And speaking of skinny, 

On 8/8/2016 at 9:58 AM, KateeBar said:

I think you all mentioned it in a recent ep, but it is funny to me to look at the "hot bodies" of this show. While most are perfectly attractive men and I would not turn them down*, these bodies would not cut it on a current show. It's interesting.

It's shocking how true this is. All of these dudes had fairly average physiques. Brandon and Steve basically had dad-bods, Dylan and David were skinny as hell. Of all the "beefcake" in the calendar, only Cress had the bod to pull it off, yummmm. 

I gotta feel for the actors and actresses of today. No average bodies allowed, only mega-thin (women) and mega-buff (dudes). It sucks. 

[radishcake]

Love to hear our esteemed producer @David T. Cole on these. Especially his under the breath asides, "there are 15 of us" made coffee come out of my nose. :D

[txhorns79]

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I gotta feel for the actors and actresses of today. No average bodies allowed, only mega-thin (women) and mega-buff (dudes). It sucks.

I'm not sure that's entirely true.  For example, most of the actors starring on Crazy Ex-Girlfriend are average bodied people.  I think it more depends on the show.  

I do give Steve credit.  He behaved horribly during the episode, but he at least has the ability to recognize his mistake and try to rectify it.        

[Tooch]

Hmm, fair point, I also love that the lead actress on Jane the Virgin has a more "normal" physique (granted she still looks more amazing than 99% of the population). I guess I am thinking more the teen shows of the CW. Like, compare season 1 girls of BH90210 to the season 1 girls of the "90210" reboot. 

I do love "Contrite Steve". I can never stay mad at him.

Guh, now I'm thinking ahead to all the Andrea nonsense to come once she has the fucking baby. Worst character development in the history of the show. Worse than Kelly joining a cult. Worse than Kelly's AMNESIA plot line. That's how much I hate it. Least Favorite: CU having an amazing FREE fucking daycare (!!!!!) (I spend $3,000 a month on daycare, no I'm not bitter) and Ahhhhndrea pitching a fit about not wanting to use it and let "strangers" raise her child. GTFO, Teen Nana. 

[AndySmith]

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granted she still looks more amazing than 99% of the population

Remember, as the Simpsons taught us, there is "real life ugly", and "TV ugly" ;)

[StephanieCaldwell]

You know what always kills me? In a few episodes, Andrea goes into pre-term labor at 28 or 29 weeks and then has a preemie. Um, as you pointed out, she's in like her 17 month of pregnancy. No way that woman is 28 weeks pregnant! Come on writers! And then she has a tiny itty bitty baby? That thing could walk out of her!! She huge!

[Ions Earring]

2 hours ago, benteen said:

Wasn't there an episode in Cheers first season where the customers want Sam to get rid of a couple of gay customers? 

There sure was. Despite the 11 year difference between the two episodes, I think this one is worse?

[Cekrypton1]

I assume the writer chiefly responsible for "Donna" was writing "David" this episode.

[StatMom]

16 hours ago, bilgistic said:

I am crying laughing over the animated (but-not-completely) mannequin. She's like the Hall of Presidents at Disney World. ::shuddering::

Was the actress actually blind? Because I've noticed that blind characters on TV (hey, there, Mary Ingalls!) tend to move rather stiffly, and I guess I always attributed it to seeing actors trying to act careful not to bump into things and such. But it seems to extend to their overall demeanor as well: kind of stiff and emotionally muted.

I really had no memory of either of these storylines. I remember Ro(r)y Randolph just fine, but gay frat guy and blind piano lady did not stick with me at all. 

[dylansucks]

I love how they put D'Shawn in full American flag outfit two episodes in a row.

[Lady Iris]

18 hours ago, bilgistic said:

I am crying laughing over the animated (but-not-completely) mannequin. She's like the Hall of Presidents at Disney World. ::shuddering::

Love this. Its so painfully true!

[SoupThrower]

8 hours ago, switchitup420 said:

There sure was. Despite the 11 year difference between the two episodes, I think this one is worse?

Yep. That Cheers episode was done a lot better than this episode. At least in my opinion. 

[SoupThrower]

On 09/08/2016 at 5:29 AM, FozzyBear said:

I guess it's possible BD specifically didn't want to do this story, but I think it's more likely a scheduling conflict. 

Im still mad Dshawn wasn't given a bigger role. He would have been so much better than the football player Donna ended up dating.

Who?

lol that short quarterback is so forgettable. 

D'Shawn would have been better than Andrea's nana issues and Jesse. How did Jesse become main cast in Season 5? It made no sense.

Also Claire's time to shine. I loved crazy for Brandon Claire because it was so stupid, it made no sense but it was better than Roy Randolph perving on Kelly and Brenda, the return of Erica, and Andrea's pregnancy issue. David doesn't do anything that story line or anything for a long time.

[Jax7917]

Whenever I watch the show I think of how bodies seem to be different now than they were in the 90s, but maybe it's because of the clothing differences. Sure, girls still wear high waisted shorts and crop tops, but more women have breast implants and butt lifts now than the women of the 90s. So their bods look diff.

Brandon wore dad clothes all the time. So he always looked way older than he was supposed to be. and Kelly wore a lot of baggy clothes so you can't really tell what her bod looks like. Ohndrea looked about 45 years old in every physical physical characteristic she had.

[Nanna]

On 9. aug. 2016 at 4:53 PM, Tooch said:

Hmm, fair point, I also love that the lead actress on Jane the Virgin has a more "normal" physique (granted she still looks more amazing than 99% of the population). I guess I am thinking more the teen shows of the CW. Like, compare season 1 girls of BH90210 to the season 1 girls of the "90210" reboot. 

I do love "Contrite Steve". I can never stay mad at him.

Guh, now I'm thinking ahead to all the Andrea nonsense to come once she has the fucking baby. Worst character development in the history of the show. Worse than Kelly joining a cult. Worse than Kelly's AMNESIA plot line. That's how much I hate it. Least Favorite: CU having an amazing FREE fucking daycare (!!!!!) (I spend $3,000 a month on daycare, no I'm not bitter) and Ahhhhndrea pitching a fit about not wanting to use it and let "strangers" raise her child. GTFO, Teen Nana. 

Yeah, when I watched the reboot I wondered why the had cast so many girls with extremely big heads. And then I realized that they were just so skinny that their hesds no longer seemed to match their bodies. In comparison the original cast looked like ordinary teenagers (except those who looked like the parents of said teenagers.)

Edited August 10, 2016 by Nanna
Edited cause spelling

[Uncle JUICE]

I love how they put D'Shawn in full American flag outfit two episodes in a row.

Pretty sure that's the same outfit Apollo Creed wore that fateful night he met Ivan Drago in Vegas.

[FozzyBear]

I always wondered if it was that beauty standard were so different (they are. I'm not arguing that, just to what degree) or if the cast was hired before anyone expected this show to make any money. The original cast were NOT up and comers on a super hot property. They were more or less people who's careers were no where, on what was supposed to be a Hail Mary pass for a failing network. One of the reasons SD got so much press in the beginning was that she had an actual resume. The next biggest star was JP because he had done Sister Kate (ask your parents).  I mean, the cast are contemporaries of Alicia Silverstone, Dean Cain, Hilary Swank, Rose McGowan, Leonadro Dicapprio. So while "the look" may have been different, unreasonable expectations of beauty remain. I just think BH90210 was this weird instance of the hottest stars of a generation being made up of actors that really were never supposed to be stars in the first place.

[txhorns79]

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I always wondered if it was that beauty standard were so different (they are. I'm not arguing that, just to what degree) or if the cast was hired before anyone expected this show to make any money. The original cast were NOT up and comers on a super hot property. They were more or less people who's careers were no where, on what was supposed to be a Hail Mary pass for a failing network.

I don't know if things were quite that desperate for either the show or the network. 

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One of the reasons SD got so much press in the beginning was that she had an actual resume. The next biggest star was JP because he had done Sister Kate (ask your parents).

I thought they both got the most press because they were the "stars" of the show.  I mean, wasn't the original focus on the Walsh twins and how they adjusted to Beverly Hills?   

Hee!  Sister Kate!  Stephanie Beacham going from Dynasty to being a nun.   

[Sarah D. Bunting]

Priestley had also played a "punker" (I know) on 21 Jump Street.

[Uncle JUICE]

Someone with Steve's permullet would not get work on a CW show nowadays, #truth.

[AllyB]

I remember a rumour back in the early years of this show that Ziering was actually very bald and had a pube hair transplant which was why his hair was so weird. It grossed me out so much.