Artistic Gymnastics: Stick the Landing!

[maraleia]

I like how supportive all the women's gymnastics coaches and athletes are with each other. They only seem to have issues with their own performances and some judges horrible scoring decisions.

Also, screw the Gabby haters and Trautwig is a sexist, racist asshole.

[Raachel2008]

4 minutes ago, Mumbles said:

Also loved how All kept referring to Sanne's first place position as "unlikely." Shut up.

You bet that what he wanted to say is that "the only reason this Dutch girl is getting this medal is because Simone had a bad day". 

[windsprints]

Quote

 It's such a lack of respect for the sport. And I don't get this vibe with ANY other commentators, Tim and Nastia included.

Agreed. If NBC insists on keeping him as a commentator perhaps he could be swapped over to Walking. Surely he knows how to walk and can possibly relate better to the athletes.

(apologize to fans of the walking competitions for trying to shove Al on them but we gymnastics fans have been saddled with him for far too long)

[Quilt Fairy]

35 minutes ago, kitcloudkicker said:

Uuuuuuugh Al

"What is that, a DIARY? Is she writing her feelings?"

Nastia: "Actually she's calculating her score."

Al: "Well I'm going to ignore that and call it a DIARY ABOUT FEELINGS, because I am a dismissive pig"

You beat me to it. "I'm just going to say she writing "Dear Diary"". Misogynist.

Shut up, Al! No seriously, SHUT. THE. FUCK. UP! 

[Aliconehead]

on the live feed, Courtney brought up the Dutch gymnast as a real gold medalist possibility before the event even started.  Not sure why the A team was not as aware. 

[choclatechip45]

Quote

on the live feed, Courtney brought up the Dutch gymnast as a real gold medalist possibility before the event even started.  Not sure why the A team was not as aware. 

Because Courtney is better at her job?

[friendperidot]

when I see women's gymnastics, I think a few things, back in ancient times, I hated beam and parallel bars, loved vaulting and we actually did pommel and I liked it a lot, I loved trampoline, but my family won't let me get a trampoline, I'm 65 and they think I might hurt myself - probably would. I would love to go to one of those places that are wall to wall trampoline. Most likely wouldn't and couldn't do more than a few jumps and land on my behind a few times, but I'd love to try. As for actual competition, I see teeny tiny, very muscular, very athletic, very talented and gorgeous young and a couple of not so young women. I think for the US, Laura is absolutely gorgeous! Sanne is beautiful and I enjoyed her routine and I loved her "Leo", beautiful. I liked Catalina's routine, but it wasn't the level of Sanne and oh, she is beautiful. Now to wade out of the shallow end of the pool, they were all fabulous and I admire all of them.

[Crs97]

Sanne's routine was beautiful, and I loved the pirouette series, but I thought Laurie's beam was clearly better.  Not really all that close to me.

[OSM Mom]

My only comment is SHUT UP, AL!! STUPID MYSIGONIST.  SHUT. UP.  TROUTFACE!! 

[legaleagle53]

1 hour ago, RedheadZombie said:

What's not to love about the women's gymnastics play by play being performed by a man who's never been on a fricking balance beam, and won his gold over thirty years ago. It's not like there's an actual woman's gymnast available, sitting right there, who won a silver medal on the beam this century.  

Ugh. He talks like he's personally experienced these things while Nastia sits by silently. 

Al never won a gold medal.  He was never even an athlete.  The closest he ever came was being stick-boy for the New York Islanders (NHL) and ball-boy for the New York Nets (ABA).  Unless you know something about him that I don't.

[Scovies]

5 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

Al never won a gold medal.  He was never even an athlete.  The closest he ever came was being stick-boy for the New York Islanders (NHL) and ball-boy for the New York Nets (ABA).  Unless you know something about him that I don't.

I think RedheadZombie was referring to Tim Daggett.

[legaleagle53]

7 minutes ago, Scovies said:

I think RedheadZombie was referring to Tim Daggett.

That wasn't clear to me, given the fact that everyone else was ranting about Der Trautpig.  Context matters.

[moonb]

Add me to to the list of spectators who love watching Simone and Laurie, but were wowed by Sanne's routine. I'm a casual gymnastics watcher, though, and I can't speak to the respective difficulty levels. Congratulations to all 3 though. I've been watching with my mother, who is in physical therapy due to health-related issues, and gymnasts are a pretty awesome reminder of what human bodies are capable of.

 

Were event finals spread over 3 days during the London games? I thought I remembered them being broadcast over 1 or 2 nights in the past.

[choclatechip45]

11 minutes ago, moonb said:

Add me to to the list of spectators who love watching Simone and Laurie, but were wowed by Sanne's routine. I'm a casual gymnastics watcher, though, and I can't speak to the respective difficulty levels. Congratulations to all 3 though. I've been watching with my mother, who is in physical therapy due to health-related issues, and gymnasts are a pretty awesome reminder of what human bodies are capable of.

 

Were event finals spread over 3 days during the London games? I thought I remembered them being broadcast over 1 or 2 nights in the past.

Can't remember for men. For women's Vault was one day, uneven bars one day and beam and floor were the same day.

Edited August 16, 2016 by choclatechip45

[COESpiral]

2 hours ago, kitcloudkicker said:

Uuuuuuugh Al

"What is that, a DIARY? Is she writing her feelings?"

Nastia: "Actually she's calculating her score."

Al: "Well I'm going to ignore that and call it a DIARY ABOUT FEELINGS, because I am a dismissive pig"

Five bucks says he immediately went to diary because the book was bright and colorful.  If it had been black or brown, I don' t know if he would have commented.  But the fact he did anyway solidifies his douchnozzle status.

"Dear Diary, just finished my beam final, won the gold medal, and then kicked some US announcer named Trautwig in the nuts for funzies.  Nastia Liukin sent me a bouquet of roses.  Go Netherlands!"

[Bastet]

From the Washington Post reporter's reflections on Gabby Douglas:

Quote

When Michael Phelps is hailed for his menacing scowl or celebrated for his during-anthem guffaws, one wonders what exactly inspires such anonymous shots at another Olympic champion such as Douglas.

Ooh, ooh -- pick me, I know <raising hand>!  Sexism and racism. 

Can I get a hard question now?

Shifting gears, I accidentally spoiled myself on the beam results, so once NBC finally gets around to airing it there won't be much suspense for me, but I'm still looking forward to it. 

What I really look forward to - and will all but take a caffeine pill to stay up for - is the floor.  Go Aly!

Edited August 16, 2016 by Bastet

[catray]

"Dear Diary, 

I had a great time watching the Olympics tonight from my couch, even though I want to punch Al Trautwig in the nuts because he's a sexist asshole! Can NBC just fire him already?!" 

[dcalley]

On 8/12/2016 at 4:32 PM, dcalley said:

What ever happened to the fancier mounts of the balance beam? I miss them.

This was me a few days ago and, well, I was quite pleased to see Sanne's mount! I loved her routine and was very happy for her.

I know that the event final gymnast order is random now (as opposed to being by lowest to highest previous score), but can people still change up their routines like they used to? I remember in the past commentators would inform us of the math and whether or not someone was going to attempt a high-points move. I hope I'm describing that clearly enough. I'm guessing that's one of the reasons for the order change.

[choclatechip45]

27 minutes ago, Bastet said:

From the Washington Post reporter's reflections on Gabby Douglas:

Ooh, ooh -- pick me, I know <raising hand>!  Sexism and racism. 

Can I get a hard question now?

Shifting gears, I accidentally spoiled myself on the beam results, so once NBC finally gets around to airing it there won't be much suspense for me, but I'm still looking forward to it. 

What I really look forward to - and will all but take a caffeine pill to stay up for - is the floor.  Go Aly!

I just rewarched the medal ceremony from the 2011 worlds none of the girls except for Sabrina Vega who puts her hand over her heart. Jordyn at one point puts her hand over her heart and takes it away. I think the problem is Rio didn't have flowers so it made it more noticeable that Gabby didn't do it. I watced the 2015 medal ceremony from worlds and I can't even tell if Simone does it because the flowers are in the way. Random does anyone know why Simone/Gabby/other girls put their hands in a fist behind their back? Is it a sign of some sort? Not trying to start any controversy I'm curious because I've noticed a lot of people do it.

Edited August 16, 2016 by choclatechip45

[catray]

I finally saw Sanne Wever's beam routine-- gorgeous! I like that it was soooo much different from what we usually see and I'm happy she got the gold. I also happy Tim and Nastia were commemting on how hard it was. Laurie's beam routine was also excellent; hard to pick a favorite! Glad she got the silver! 

Al is an asshole for the dear diary comment. SHUT UP, AL!! 

[SophiaD]

Didn't Ebke Zonderland win the high bar 2012?  What's this talk of "a long, long time?"

[Quilt Fairy]

53 minutes ago, dcalley said:

I know that the event final gymnast order is random now (as opposed to being by lowest to highest previous score), but can people still change up their routines like they used to? I remember in the past commentators would inform us of the math and whether or not someone was going to attempt a high-points move. I hope I'm describing that clearly enough. I'm guessing that's one of the reasons for the order change.

Apparently they can and do change the routines especially between qualification and the medal round, e.g. you do the minimum you need to qualify and save the hard tricks for when it counts. Which doesn't help you if you go early and set a low bar that later gymnasts can easily top.  But they are also changing things on the fly, generally unintentionally I believe, for example when they miss a connection between 2 elements  and having that connection added to the degree of difficulty of each element, so now they both have to be down-graded. The inquiry that Laurie Hernandez' coach made about her score beam concerned whether her start value was reported correctly.  These gymnastic routines that seem so long are really only 90 seconds or less so adding in an extra unaccounted for element seems unlikely.

[cesstar]

2 hours ago, dcalley said:

I know that the event final gymnast order is random now (as opposed to being by lowest to highest previous score), but can people still change up their routines like they used to?

Aliya Mustafina is quite famous for changing up her beam routine between quals and finals. Sometimes she even changes it mid-routine! She has always been very savvy about the code and her start value so if she misses a connection she has been known to add in a skill on the fly to replace it. When it works, it's pretty impressive. However her constant changing of routines probably contributed to her crazy fall from beam during qualifications where it looked like she literally forgot what skill she was supposed to be performing next and hopped down off the beam mid skill! Most girls tend to consistently train the same beam routine to build their confidence (so important on beam!) so you don't see a lot of variation across or within a meet.

You sometimes see a bit more variation in floor or bars, where a gymnast might upgrade one of their tumbling runs or include a more difficult release move if they have qualified to finals.

[katisha]

I've been reading all the posts about Gabby Douglas with sadness that she's taking so much abuse for no good reason. The "hand on heart" thing puzzles me most. Australian athletes getting gold medals and standing on the dias listening to our anthem play don't put their hand on their heart and most don't even know the words to Advance Australia Fair, I bet, but you won't see anyone here accusing them of being traitorous or unpatriotic. So why do some Americans think it's so terrible? You would think she had blown her nose on the flag, then taken a dump on it, then ceremoniously burnt it. 

As for the "bitchface" issue, that reminds me of what swimmer Leisel Jones went through after Athens when she got a bronze medal in her pet event that Australia expected her to win. She looked visibly upset after the race and during the ceremony and it was said afterwards by the press and most notably by Dawn Fraser that Leisel was being a bad sport, a spoilt brat, and lots of other negative things. I recently read Leisel's book Body Lengths and she wrote about how hurt she was by all these people judging her unfairly, reading what was her very understandable disappointment in herself as snottiness with the winner and the silver medallist. Seems to me that Gabby Douglas is going through a very similar and equally unfair trial by media. 

[mojoween]

To my untrained eye it didn't look like Simone's routine had 1.7 amount of deductions and I trusted Tim who said that grabbing the beam was a .5.

[fireice13]

51 minutes ago, mojoween said:

To my untrained eye it didn't look like Simone's routine had 1.7 amount of deductions and I trusted Tim who said that grabbing the beam was a .5.

Courtney Kupets said in the live feed that for awhile touching the beam was considered a fall for a 1 point deduction, then it was downgraded to a .5 deduction, and now it's back to being counted as a fall and 1 point deduction again. She did lose the 1 point from touching the beam.

[NUguy514]

According to Simone herself, it was a .5 deduction.

I'm devastated for Simone and her mistake and already annoyed at how she's going to be looked at as a disappointment for not winning five gold medals.  Laurie was incredible, and Sanne's routine was so beautiful and unique!  Given Sanne's score, it wasn't a given that Simone would've won without the touch; she only scored higher than Sanne in qualifications and scored lower than Sanne in both team finals and AA.  Honestly, this was always going to be the most precarious (so to speak) of her potential golds to win, so I'm not incredibly surprised that it didn't happen.  Even with her mistake, though, she was fantastic on the rest of her routine and deserved bronze, especially since no one other than Sanne and Laurie had a good beam routine.

I'm so upset that Marian lost out on a medal due to a tiebreak, but I'm even madder that he wasn't just scored third; his execution score was too low on his second vault (I'd also argue that Kenzo was slightly over-scored on his second vault).  So pissed.  Ri had no business getting such a good execution score on his first vault since he slightly tucked his pike position.  He deserved to win overall (that second vault was a thing of beauty), but it should've been closer.

Petrounias was in a class by himself on rings.

Between Simone's mistake on beam, the vault judges robbing Marian, and the technically-legal-but-totally-bullshit way Allyson Felix lost the gold in the women's 400m, this was a shitty Olympics day for me.

And I just want to give Gabby the biggest hug and tell her for one million years how amazing she is.

Edited August 16, 2016 by NUguy514

[choclatechip45]

Today show just covered everything Gabby has gone through asking people to tweet her support using the hashtag. Hoda Kotb defended her saying if you know Gabby she meant no harm. They shared this tweet which is cute. 

https://twitter.com/shondarhimes/status/765246568530255873

Edited August 16, 2016 by choclatechip45

[alexa]

I just have to say for me this has been one of the worst Olympics in regard to coverage.  I get that they want to cover swimming and running, but they literally have hours of coverage of those events in the prime watching time, and then give the other primetime disciplines just a little piece here and there at the end of the night--when most people give up and go to bed.  And they show a million interviews of Michael Phelps, but I have rarely heard any interviews of the gymnastics women (most likely because it is at the end of the night), and they have done what everyone had hoped they would do.  I end up having to watch most of the end of the primetime event the next day, and so I am able to see what they had to offer, and typically it isn't much.  

They really took away much of the fun of watching gymnastics with their late and broken up coverage.  Oh, and I was so shocked to see they had yet another interview with Michael Phelps the other night!  So glad I got to see that because I haven't seen or heard from him at all.  LOL

[mojoween]

I just wish the coverage was somehow even.  I mean, I personally LOVE swimming.  Swimming and gymnastics are my #1 Olympic events.  

Last night, I turned on NBC at 8 and was getting so irritated that they were showing nine million track qualifying heats and then they showed...the beam.  After ten.  If I weren't following along here, I would have NO IDEA that men competed yesterday.

The more I think about it the more pissed I get that the men are relegated to daytime and overnight.  Why is that?  Again, maybe this is just me, but I want to watch all of the gymnastics regardless of who medals and I do not ever recall Olympics coverage that shunts the men off to other times and channels.

[choclatechip45]

1 hour ago, mojoween said:

I just wish the coverage was somehow even.  I mean, I personally LOVE swimming.  Swimming and gymnastics are my #1 Olympic events.  

Last night, I turned on NBC at 8 and was getting so irritated that they were showing nine million track qualifying heats and then they showed...the beam.  After ten.  If I weren't following along here, I would have NO IDEA that men competed yesterday.

The more I think about it the more pissed I get that the men are relegated to daytime and overnight.  Why is that?  Again, maybe this is just me, but I want to watch all of the gymnastics regardless of who medals and I do not ever recall Olympics coverage that shunts the men off to other times and channels.

The biggest problem IMO is that swimming and track the finals are live while gymnastics isn't. So they try to sandwich gymnastics between the live stuff. In London I don't think anything was live. While in Bejing the team finals and all around were live. I completely understand why you are pissed it is BS they didn't show Alex Naddour pommel horse in prime time. I remember a bunch of my relatives being pissed during Sochi because they showed Ladies figure skating so late. One of my relatives didn't understand how they expected young children to stay up until 11:30 pm to watch it.

Simone is on the cover of SI with Phelps and  Ledecky 

Edited August 16, 2016 by choclatechip45

[andromeda331]

2 hours ago, alexa said:

I just have to say for me this has been one of the worst Olympics in regard to coverage.  I get that they want to cover swimming and running, but they literally have hours of coverage of those events in the prime watching time, and then give the other primetime disciplines just a little piece here and there at the end of the night--when most people give up and go to bed.  And they show a million interviews of Michael Phelps, but I have rarely heard any interviews of the gymnastics women (most likely because it is at the end of the night), and they have done what everyone had hoped they would do.  I end up having to watch most of the end of the primetime event the next day, and so I am able to see what they had to offer, and typically it isn't much.  

They really took away much of the fun of watching gymnastics with their late and broken up coverage.  Oh, and I was so shocked to see they had yet another interview with Michael Phelps the other night!  So glad I got to see that because I haven't seen or heard from him at all.  LOL

They've wasted so much time on nothing.  We had tons of footage of him and his broken swim cap, on him sitting in a chair waiting for his turn. The night when he had two meets back to back? They once again wasted time waiting for it to start. They could have put in something else in place like time spent on gymnastics or another sport all of the watching of Phelps and it would have taken nothing away from swimming. They had tons of time to talk about him during his many, many races and many, many interviews repeating the same stuff they repeated about Phelps over and over and over.

Congratulations Sanne! Congratulations Laurie! Congratulations Simone! You were awesome! Loved Sanne's leotard loved the way she got on the beam. I remember when they used to do that. As much as I wanted USA to win Gold and Silver, I love that it went to the Netherlands. How cool is that? Not USA, not China, not Russia, or Romania.  Congratulations!

Edited August 16, 2016 by andromeda331

[choclatechip45]

It must be so awesome to win the first gold medal for your country in WAG. So happy for Sanne! I loved how excited Nastia seemed to be with the routine. 

[andromeda331]

16 hours ago, roamyn said:

They're both mid 70s.  If she wants to just retire, because she wants to live her life in peace & quiet, that's her perogative.  She doesn't owe anyone an explanation.

She has earned it. They both have. Even if it makes me nervous about the future of the USA gymnastics team. We saw what happened when they last time they retired and were asked to come back.

[Elsydeon]

5 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

She has earned it. They both have. Even if it makes me nervous about the future of the USA gymnastics team. We saw what happened when they last time they retired and were asked to come back.

The program was in a much worse place back then. There was no real sense of team, and it was everyone for themselves most of the time. I've also had some apprehension about what's going to happen once Martha is gone, but I highly doubt there will be a repeat of the post-Atlanta fall.

[choclatechip45]

9 minutes ago, Elsydeon said:

The program was in a much worse place back then. There was no real sense of team, and it was everyone for themselves most of the time. I've also had some apprehension about what's going to happen once Martha is gone, but I highly doubt there will be a repeat of the post-Atlanta fall.

I wasn't following gymnastics like I do now. How come there was such a big fall after Atlanta?  Did the just get lucky with the talent in the early 90's? 

[Raachel2008]

11 hours ago, katisha said:

As for the "bitchface" issue, that reminds me of what swimmer Leisel Jones went through after Athens when she got a bronze medal in her pet event that Australia expected her to win. She looked visibly upset after the race and during the ceremony and it was said afterwards by the press and most notably by Dawn Fraser that Leisel was being a bad sport, a spoilt brat, and lots of other negative things. I recently read Leisel's book Body Lengths and she wrote about how hurt she was by all these people judging her unfairly, reading what was her very understandable disappointment in herself as snottiness with the winner and the silver medallist. Seems to me that Gabby Douglas is going through a very similar and equally unfair trial by media.

I think it would be fairer to compare Gabby and McKayla Maroney. McKayla acted like a petulant child when she lost the gold in London, them made THE bitch face when receiving her medal - an ungracious brat. Suprisingly, the media quick forgave McKayla, because when the spoiled white kid becomes an internet phenomenon you forgive her.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Raachel2008

[Superpole2000]

9 hours ago, Bastet said:

Ooh, ooh -- pick me, I know <raising hand>!  Sexism and racism.

I doubt that the majority of people commenting on Gabby Douglas and concerning themselves with her appearance are men. If it's sexism, then it's predominantly coming from other women.

[kitcloudkicker]

21 minutes ago, Superpole2000 said:

I doubt that the majority of people commenting on Gabby Douglas and concerning themselves with her appearance are men. If it's sexism, then it's predominantly coming from other women.

That's the fun thing about systemic issues, anyone can perpetuate them. And they don't even need to realize they're doing it. 

[DawnDavenport]

38 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

I wasn't following gymnastics like I do now. How come there was such a big fall after Atlanta?  Did the just get lucky with the talent in the early 90's? 

Part of the big fall off after Atlanta is that the US Gymnastics Federation was more concerned about cashing in on the Mag 7 with the endless cheesy tours that they completely ignored the up and coming juniors in '97. Part of this was also that they focused so much on building the team from '93-'96 that they didn't foster the junior program then either. In '97, the only returning Olympian from the US was Moceanu and she spent so much time on tour, that she had very training that she was a shell of her former self and only finished 9th at the '97 Nationals. The only reason she qualified for the (awful) '97 Worlds team was that most of the top finishers were too young that year to go to Worlds: Atler, Dantzscher, etc. The US Women go to Worlds and finished 6th in the team final and no one was even close in the all around or event finals.

Moceanu got back on track in '98, won the Goodwill Games, had a relatively successful Nationals but then her family life imploded and that was that. Atler essentially peaked in '98 and had there been a Worlds, the US probably could have done well. The US had a relatively good year that winning quite a few medals at the Goodwill Games but it was held in the US so there was quite a bit of criticism that the competition was essentially a US meet.

Then comes 1999. Ugh. What an ugly year. Maloney was getting somewhat better but was hampered by the Parkettes training regimen that didn't allow a stress fracture in her shin to heal properly, Atler was really beginning to implode and left the Rybacki's after falling on bars (again) and getting yelled at by her coach on national TV. However, Elise Ray was starting to come up but she was still underdeveloped, specifically on vault and floor. Morgan White was also making a run but no one really stood out. The team goes to Words and that's when the wheels really came off the wagon. They barely finished in 6th place that year, Atler really melted down (watch her team final beam routine on YT) and we started to see that yet another US gymnast was not going to live up to the hype and talent. In general, the team was very unfocused and undisciplined.

Panic ensued starting in 2000. Bela Karolyi was brought back to try to right the ship and that's when the selection process was adopted. Dawes, Chow, and Miller attempted comebacks and only Dawes and Chow were successful. Atler continued to implode an by the trials, she could barely vault and that was a sign she was finished since that was considered one of her best events. She could never do bars, and she almost killed herself on beam. Ray was really the only bright spot at Trials and Nationals. So the team is selected and Atler is left off, even as an alternate, and they go to train. But again, there was still a lack of discipline with some gymnasts (Jamie Dantzscher) and the team limped into Sydney with injuries: Ray and Maloney. It was the worst Olympics for the US women since 1976 (1980 doesn't count because of the boycott).

In a nutshell, that's how Bela and Martha came out of retirement. 

[Elsydeon]

1 hour ago, choclatechip45 said:

I wasn't following gymnastics like I do now. How come there was such a big fall after Atlanta?  Did the just get lucky with the talent in the early 90's? 

Yeah, they did. The program had stuck with a core group between Barcelona and Atlanta, with the main objective of winning team gold, almost ignoring most of the next generation of talent. Once the 96ers stepped away, there was a lack of experienced gymnasts who could easily step in, and the program floundered a bit. But the system that Martha and USA Gym has set up makes that unlikely to happen again.

[choclatechip45]

19 minutes ago, DawnDavenport said:

Part of the big fall off after Atlanta is that the US Gymnastics Federation was more concerned about cashing in on the Mag 7 with the endless cheesy tours that they completely ignored the up and coming juniors in '97. Part of this was also that they focused so much on building the team from '93-'96 that they didn't foster the junior program then either. In '97, the only returning Olympian from the US was Moceanu and she spent so much time on tour, that she had very training that she was a shell of her former self and only finished 9th at the '97 Nationals. The only reason she qualified for the (awful) '97 Worlds team was that most of the top finishers were too young that year to go to Worlds: Atler, Dantzscher, etc. The US Women go to Worlds and finished 6th in the team final and no one was even close in the all around or event finals.

Moceanu got back on track in '98, won the Goodwill Games, had a relatively successful Nationals but then her family life imploded and that was that. Atler essentially peaked in '98 and had there been a Worlds, the US probably could have done well. The US had a relatively good year that winning quite a few medals at the Goodwill Games but it was held in the US so there was quite a bit of criticism that the competition was essentially a US meet.

Then comes 1999. Ugh. What an ugly year. Maloney was getting somewhat better but was hampered by the Parkettes training regimen that didn't allow a stress fracture in her shin to heal properly, Atler was really beginning to implode and left the Rybacki's after falling on bars (again) and getting yelled at by her coach on national TV. However, Elise Ray was starting to come up but she was still underdeveloped, specifically on vault and floor. Morgan White was also making a run but no one really stood out. The team goes to Words and that's when the wheels really came off the wagon. They barely finished in 6th place that year, Atler really melted down (watch her team final beam routine on YT) and we started to see that yet another US gymnast was not going to live up to the hype and talent. In general, the team was very unfocused and undisciplined.

Panic ensued starting in 2000. Bela Karolyi was brought back to try to right the ship and that's when the selection process was adopted. Dawes, Chow, and Miller attempted comebacks and only Dawes and Chow were successful. Atler continued to implode an by the trials, she could barely vault and that was a sign she was finished since that was considered one of her best events. She could never do bars, and she almost killed herself on beam. Ray was really the only bright spot at Trials and Nationals. So the team is selected and Atler is left off, even as an alternate, and they go to train. But again, there was still a lack of discipline with some gymnasts (Jamie Dantzscher) and the team limped into Sydney with injuries: Ray and Maloney. It was the worst Olympics for the US women since 1976 (1980 doesn't count because of the boycott).

In a nutshell, that's how Bela and Martha came out of retirement. 

Thanks! Very interesting. No wonder Marths keeps saying they need to focus on the next generation looks like they learned their lesson. I just watched the today show interview after the 2000 team was picked. Dawes said she just started training a few months earlier. That is crazy! Did USA Gymnastics recruit Miller,Dawes and Chow out of retirement? Or was it like Nastia worlds 2011 bars situation they saw lack of talent and they could easily make the team if they were healthy and got their skills back? 

Just watched Atler's beam routine wow! Didnt she fire Rybacki before worlds and had no coach? Plus I've heard the rumors about the girls sneaking out and partying no idea if that is true.

15 minutes ago, Elsydeon said:

Yeah, they did. The program had stuck with a core group between Barcelona and Atlanta, with the main objective of winning team gold, almost ignoring most of the next generation of talent. Once the 96ers stepped away, there was a lack of experienced gymnasts who could easily step in, and the program floundered a bit. But the system that Martha and USA Gym has set up makes that unlikely to happen again.

Do you think it was because the Olympics were in Atlanta? Or would it have happened anyway?

Edited August 16, 2016 by choclatechip45

[proserpina65]

20 hours ago, DawnDavenport said:

Nellie Kim lost the '76 AA to Nadia and is partly responsible for overseeing implementation of the code after '04 that emphasized difficulty over execution and artistry.

I've always thought Nadia was way overrated in '76, and Nellie Kim should've won the all-around.  The scoring system has tilted too far in favor of difficulty, and I do miss some of the artistry, but gymnasts were definitely using their alleged artistry to cover up errors too often, imo.  There needs to be some middle ground.

[DawnDavenport]

Quote

Just watched Atler's beam routine wow! Didnt she fire Rybacki before worlds and had no coach? Plus I've heard the rumors about the girls sneaking out and partying no idea if that is true.

She fired him right after '99 Nationals. That's the one where the cameras caught him yelling at her after bar warm ups and then again after she fell yet again. At that point, she had no business training bars. It wasn't just the Comenci, she had terrible technique and they should just have focused her on vault, beam, and floor but they were dead set that she was the next greatest US all around gymnast. 

I did hear they caused all sorts of issues. in Tianjin. I wouldn't be surprised they snuck out and partied. 

[choclatechip45]

9 minutes ago, DawnDavenport said:

She fired him right after '99 Nationals. That's the one where the cameras caught him yelling at her after bar warm ups and then again after she fell yet again. At that point, she had no business training bars. It wasn't just the Comenci, she had terrible technique and they should just have focused her on vault, beam, and floor but they were dead set that she was the next greatest US all around gymnast. 

I did hear they caused all sorts of issues. in Tianjin. I wouldn't be surprised they snuck out and partied. 

From the rumors I heard it was Jeanette Antolin and Dantzcher (no surprise). Wasn't that before specialists became popular? That must have been one awkward trip for Alter since the Rybacki's were coaching Dantzcher.

Edited August 16, 2016 by choclatechip45

[CeeBeeGee]

21 hours ago, galaxygirl76 said:

We were very cautiously hoping for a medal, never ever thought it would be gold.

Sanne deserved it! Just lovely routine. And how wonderful to see the Okino turn! I don't think anyone's done one since Betty herself, it's just too hard.

 

19 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

I was at work but did anyone watch the beam medal ceremony? Apparently Simone was booed by the Brazilian crowd? Wow.

Please tell me that is not true. Jesus. They booed the non-Brazilian gymnasts at PanAms in '07, you'd think somebody would taken the initiative to tell the crowd that is disgusting behavior and NOT the Olympic spirit. I can't imagine Flavia wants that kind of support either.

 

4 hours ago, alexa said:

I just have to say for me this has been one of the worst Olympics in regard to coverage.  I get that they want to cover swimming and running, but they literally have hours of coverage of those events in the prime watching time, and then give the other primetime disciplines just a little piece here and there at the end of the night--when most people give up and go to bed.  And they show a million interviews of Michael Phelps, but I have rarely heard any interviews of the gymnastics women (most likely because it is at the end of the night), and they have done what everyone had hoped they would do.  I end up having to watch most of the end of the primetime event the next day, and so I am able to see what they had to offer, and typically it isn't much.  

They really took away much of the fun of watching gymnastics with their late and broken up coverage.  Oh, and I was so shocked to see they had yet another interview with Michael Phelps the other night!  So glad I got to see that because I haven't seen or heard from him at all.  LOL

I AM SO SICK OF SEEING SWIMMING. Literally HOURS and hours at a time of heats, semi-finals and interviews. If WAG is a big ratings bonanza, why are they ruining it by forcing us to watch until 10:30 or 11? How are little girls going to stay up that late to watch? I'm so sick of it. NBC SUCKS, and honestly, until this year generally I've been okay with their coverage and with Tim, Nastia and Elfi. (Not Al though, he's always sucked SHUT UP AL.)

 

1 hour ago, DawnDavenport said:

Part of the big fall off after Atlanta is that the US Gymnastics Federation was more concerned about cashing in on the Mag 7 with the endless cheesy tours that they completely ignored the up and coming juniors in '97. Part of this was also that they focused so much on building the team from '93-'96 that they didn't foster the junior program then either. In '97, the only returning Olympian from the US was Moceanu and she spent so much time on tour, that she had very training that she was a shell of her former self and only finished 9th at the '97 Nationals. The only reason she qualified for the (awful) '97 Worlds team was that most of the top finishers were too young that year to go to Worlds: Atler, Dantzscher, etc. The US Women go to Worlds and finished 6th in the team final and no one was even close in the all around or event finals.

Moceanu got back on track in '98, won the Goodwill Games, had a relatively successful Nationals but then her family life imploded and that was that. Atler essentially peaked in '98 and had there been a Worlds, the US probably could have done well. The US had a relatively good year that winning quite a few medals at the Goodwill Games but it was held in the US so there was quite a bit of criticism that the competition was essentially a US meet.

Then comes 1999. Ugh. What an ugly year. Maloney was getting somewhat better but was hampered by the Parkettes training regimen that didn't allow a stress fracture in her shin to heal properly, Atler was really beginning to implode and left the Rybacki's after falling on bars (again) and getting yelled at by her coach on national TV. However, Elise Ray was starting to come up but she was still underdeveloped, specifically on vault and floor. Morgan White was also making a run but no one really stood out. The team goes to Words and that's when the wheels really came off the wagon. They barely finished in 6th place that year, Atler really melted down (watch her team final beam routine on YT) and we started to see that yet another US gymnast was not going to live up to the hype and talent. In general, the team was very unfocused and undisciplined.

Panic ensued starting in 2000. Bela Karolyi was brought back to try to right the ship and that's when the selection process was adopted. Dawes, Chow, and Miller attempted comebacks and only Dawes and Chow were successful. Atler continued to implode an by the trials, she could barely vault and that was a sign she was finished since that was considered one of her best events. She could never do bars, and she almost killed herself on beam. Ray was really the only bright spot at Trials and Nationals. So the team is selected and Atler is left off, even as an alternate, and they go to train. But again, there was still a lack of discipline with some gymnasts (Jamie Dantzscher) and the team limped into Sydney with injuries: Ray and Maloney. It was the worst Olympics for the US women since 1976 (1980 doesn't count because of the boycott).

In a nutshell, that's how Bela and Martha came out of retirement. 

Elisa Ray was so underrated, IMO, and her beautiful gymnastics were so overshadowed by the shitshow that was Sydney (and the preceding trials). She was such a lovely gymnast, so elegant on floor. 

And oh God, Moceanu at the Goodwill Games! Absolutely breathtaking AA performance. If only she could've stayed healthy (and if only her horrible dad hadn't chased Lupita away).

 

Edited to add:

At the end of event finals in London, only 1 of the 12 available medals had been won by a non-big 4 gymnast (Beth Tweddle's bronze on bars). We've completed 3 of the 4 event finals and already we have 3 non-big 4 medalists! Sanne Wever n beam, Sophie Scheder on bars and Julia Steingruber on vault! Hooray for up-and-coming programs!

Edited August 16, 2016 by CeeBeeGee

[DawnDavenport]

4 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

From the rumors I heard it was Jeanette Antolin and Dantzcher (no surprise). Wasn't that before specialists became popular? That must have been one awkward trip for Alter since the Rybacki's were coaching Dantzcher.

It may have been before the specialist era but the US was good on bars and weak on vault. They could have use Atler on vault, beam, and floor. Dantzcher was terrible on beam so there was a hole to fill and Atler could have not done bars. That might have helped but who knows. She was becoming more of a headcase as time progressed so she may still have imploded the way she did. I think toward the end she even admitted to an eating disorder, which is very very sad to think about.

Jamie Dantzcher was a hot mess. She had a terrible attitude. She received a 0.1 deduction on her floor in Sydney because she forgot to salute the judges as she was more concerned with giving Bela the middle finger than actually caring about the team.

Let's not forget Beth Rybacki and her drama. She acted so insane regarding Atler's departure, and Dantzcher. I think 2000 was more about Beth getting HER Olympics than her athlete.

[onyxrose81]

Atler couldn't drop UB.  It was still AAs.  Specialists didn't really become a thing until the next quad, 2001-2004 (2005-2008 quad was the one where the specialists were implemented in earnest).   She was just born too late.  Her fall from the top still guts me to this day.  All that natural talent was just squandered.  

Edited August 16, 2016 by onyxrose81

[CeeBeeGee]

3 minutes ago, DawnDavenport said:

Let's not forget Beth Rybacki and her drama. She acted so insane regarding Atler's departure, and Dantzcher. I think 2000 was more about Beth getting HER Olympics than her athlete.

Did she ever! Watching the Beth fluff--it's CRAZY how personally she and Steve took everything to do with their gymnasts. THEY are hormonal teenagers, YOU are supposed to be the adult! I've always had a lingering contempt in the back of my mind after watching that fluff.

[DawnDavenport]

19 minutes ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Elisa Ray was so underrated, IMO, and her beautiful gymnastics were so overshadowed by the shitshow that was Sydney (and the preceding trials). She was such a lovely gymnast, so elegant on floor. 

And oh God, Moceanu at the Goodwill Games! Absolutely breathtaking AA performance. If only she could've stayed healthy (and if only her horrible dad hadn't chased Lupita away).

I really like Ray's gymnastics. I think by the time Sydney rolled around, she was battling a shoulder issue. I can't believe after almost breaking her neck on the vault that was set too low, she's goes to bars and does a freaking double-double layout dismount! I also really liked her triple twist-punch front mount on floor and her beam was really exquisite when she hit it.

The Women's competition in Sydney just needs to be wiped from memory. From the terrible floor that caused so many issues, to the incorrectly set vault in the all-around, China falsifying ages, Romania winning the team comp, it was a total shitfest (I hate their gymnastics). The only saving grace were the event finals. Everything else was terrible.