Rio Scandals: Is It Ready, Will The Place Kill You & More!

[BlackberryJam]

There are no "special rules" for crimes committed by local people v. crimes committed by foreign nationals. The only difference with this one is the publicity factor. 

[ohjoy]

15 minutes ago, Raachel2008 said:

All your post makes a lot of sense,  but where in the entire world four grown up adults trash something and believe they will be able to leave without paying for the damage or the police being involved? 

 

10 minutes ago, stealinghome said:

I'm not defending it, but I actually feel like that's pretty common behavior for a bunch of drunk idiots? Sober adults wouldn't make the assumption, no, but drunk idiots are a different ball game.

That was pretty much my reasoning.

Or it could be as simple as they thought they'd be fine to wait in the taxi for the police to show up, and the security guards thought otherwise, but with the language barrier, the four did not get the demand not to stay in the car until the guns came out.

(All of this sounds like I really want to defend these guys, but that's not the case at all. I think they were stupid basically from start to finish, and it's being exacerbated by the apparent fact that neither the swimmers nor the authorities want to admit they might have been wrong about the other side, or that the crux of the problem is probably a simple communication breakdown.)

[windsprints]

1 minute ago, BlackberryJam said:

There are no "special rules" for crimes committed by local people v. crimes committed by foreign nationals. The only difference with this one is the publicity factor. 

Perhaps my wording was unclear - I was simply asking about the laws of Rio, what are the charges and penalty for this crime and would it be something that was in the news (locally, not internationally obviously).  

[BlackberryJam]

I am not familiar with Brazilian law, but reports say this, "Under Brazilian law, filing a false police report is punishable by up to six months in detention or a fine, according to USA Today." So it's a crime similar to petty theft or carrying a gun without a permit, or any other first degree misdemeanor. The possible penalties are high to discourage the activity, but that actual sentences are usually much lighter.

[pennben]

23 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I agree. Compared to body parts washing up on the beach and the insane murder rate in Rio, a bunch of drunk jerks lying to the cops is hardly the crime of the century. I'm not sure why this has been blown out of proportion. It's not like Rio had some fabulous reputation that was irreparably tarnished by Lochte and his crew. They should pay damages and apologize but I don't think this warrants mass outrage.

I think it is getting the attention it is getting because the international press is focused and in Rio for the Olympics.  And, Lochte's initial recounting of the story played perfectly in to the media reports/narrative running up to the Olympics of how Rio was a crime-ridden, corrupt country incapable of hosting the Olympics. 

So, in the initial reporting, Lochte and all being robbed clearly show that Rio is awful according to the media.  Now that it appears that they embellished (and I'm being careful here because lots is going on), the conclusion seems to be, no biggie that they embellished, because outside of this incident,  Rio is awful.  It can be true that Rio is awful but also true that Lochte is awful and played on a narrative to make himself look better.

[evilmindatwork]

21 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

Which is even more reason why it's stupid for the Brazilian government to make such a big deal out of this incident.  The resources they've used, and will continue to use, to address this case should be used on the other cases where people actually were mugged and robbed, and to find the rest of the poor bastard's body with the missing leg.   

45 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

I disagree. They allegedly drunkenly terrorized people with less power and less money, and then smugly lied about it. IF that part of the story is true, that's not okay at all. The third world has problems and so does Rio but that doesn't mean Ryan Lochte and buds should use that narrative to make themselves look better while behaving badly. Look I don't think they deserve to be thrown into a dungeon for 10 years or anything like that but if the allegations against them are true they, at the very least, should apologize, maybe pay a fine, and be disciplined by USA Swimming. People make mistakes but they're adults and should take responsibility. 

ETA: I don't blame the Rio/ or the government of Brazil for feeling defensive about the media coverage. Rio has a lot of crime but so do large American cities like Chicago (where I've been mugged), Baltimore, and Los Angeles. Brazil has poverty, corruption and crime, but that's not ALL Brazil is. 

Edited August 18, 2016 by evilmindatwork

[windsprints]

Thanks BlackberryJam.

Quote

So, in the initial reporting, Lochte and all being robbed clearly show that Rio is awful according to the media.  Now that it appears that they embellished (and I'm being careful here because lots is going on), the conclusion seems to be, no biggie that they embellished, because outside of this incident,  Rio is awful.  It can be true that Rio is awful but also true that Lochte is awful and played on a narrative to make himself look better.

I agree. I'd add the 3 that went along with Lochte to the list.

[FilmTVGeek80]

11 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

Which is even more reason why it's stupid for the Brazilian government to make such a big deal out of this incident.  The resources they've used, and will continue to use, to address this case should be used on the other cases where people actually were mugged and robbed, and to find the rest of the poor bastard's body with the missing leg.

 

So, should Lochte and his merry band of idiots just get away with this because there're other crimes happening? At first, I thought the Brazilian authorities were blowing things out of proportion, but I'm glad they followed up on the discrepancies in the story and blew up these guy's spot. This all because Lochte is an attention whore and made a big deal of talking about the trauma and making himself look like some brave hero. 

They should have to pay the consequences (no matter how small they are) and show that white celebrities don't just get to run around and do, or say, whatever they want and get away with it.

Given how people are still bending over backwards to either excuse the behavior or claim they didn't lie, I can see why they feel they need as much evidence as possible out there to show what idiots those guys were. Two of the other guys detained already admitted that the whole robbery thing was a lie.

[GinnyMars]

47 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Compared to body parts washing up on the beach and the insane murder rate in Rio, a bunch of drunk jerks lying to the cops is hardly the crime of the century.

You don't get it, this is actually a condition to become a host city!

[cocobeans]

We have armed security guards at our hospital and lots of the patients refer to them as "fake police".  We also have a lot of issues with younger, drunk, males in the early morning hours.  LOL  The bread butter of my business :-)

[jjj]

1 hour ago, greyhorse said:

I don't want to see Ryan Lochte back in Tokyo.  

Yeah, I don't think you need to worry about that.

1 hour ago, Ohwell said:

Lochte & Crew might be idiots but I don't think their "crimes" were at all serious, and I also do not think that they deserve to be pilloried.   I think that the Brazilian pearl-clutching is ridiculous, and I also do not think that video tells the whole story.  

I think Brazil is playing a game of "gotcha" with the media and world audience -- this shifts the focus from "Rio is full of thieves and muggers -- fear for your lives" to a disprovable "crime" that shows, "hey, see, Rio is not the problem, it's those hooligan athletes that are the problem!"

[ohjoy]

1 minute ago, jjj said:

I think Brazil is playing a game of "gotcha" with the media and world audience -- this shifts the focus from "Rio is full of thieves and muggers -- fear for your lives" to a disprovable "crime" that shows, "hey, see, Rio is not the problem, it's those hooligan athletes that are the problem!"

Which honestly is what annoys me the most about this whole incident. It's becoming, not a "their word against ours" issue about this one instance, but a "their word against ours" issue about the whole level of crime in the region period. Which is crazy, but now there's this swinging door that both sides are desperate to push in the direction that favors them.

[againstthewind]

21 minutes ago, cocobeans said:

We have armed security guards at our hospital and lots of the patients refer to them as "fake police".  We also have a lot of issues with younger, drunk, males in the early morning hours.  LOL  The bread butter of my business :-)

We have them in Ocean City, MD. We call them rent-a-cops.

[BitterApple]

I don't understand, why is this turning into a race debate? If the Olympics were being held in Stockholm instead of Rio would everyone be arguing about white entitlement? Why even go there when it has nothing to do with what happened? 

[againstthewind]

Guys, I'm *crying* over this article:

10 Reasons Why Ryan Lochte is Actually An International Supervillian

An excerpt:

"In 2012, Lochte was asked in an interview what two words best describe him. “Ryan Lochte,” he said, grinning in a way that, at the time, made me want to tongue kiss him to shut him up. I’d never seen a person closer to both the apex of stupid and the apex of hot. None of us had. During those London games, the world realized simultaneously that they’d slam Ryan Lochte harder than the door of a teen who was just told Justin Bieber quit Instagram, but also, at the same time, they would not trust him with adult scissors."

[pennben]

45 minutes ago, RandomMe said:

Which honestly is what annoys me the most about this whole incident. It's becoming, not a "their word against ours" issue about this one instance, but a "their word against ours" issue about the whole level of crime in the region period. Which is crazy, but now there's this swinging door that both sides are desperate to push in the direction that favors them.

I agree, and while you are careful to say you aren't defending Lochte et.al, I want to be careful to say I'm not defending Rio.  I'm just going to summarize a story from another athlete claiming robbery.

Apparently an Australian swimmer stated that he was forced to go to an ATM and withdraw $1000 in a robbery in Rio.  That's wrong, no matter what the circumstances, but it appears he left out that he was out drinking until 4:00 am and then, rather than going back with his team, went to the beach to drink more before the incident occurred.  He was later found drunk and disoriented and the Australian consulate was called by bystanders to assure his safety. I'm not sure there's any major city where you can basically be drunk off your ass and not be at risk of being robbed.  Interestingly enough, he apparently only reported the crime to the Australian Olympic officials, but chose not to file a police report.  Here's my reference article (in addition to some reporting on twitter I saw). 

Honestly, Rio has serious problems, but athletes doing stupid shit and then laying that at the feet of Rio's problems, rather than themselves, is truly obnoxious to me.

Edited August 19, 2016 by pennben

[againstthewind]

HOW IS THIS NOT GETTING MORE PLAY?

[Kromm]

6 hours ago, biakbiak said:

Tmz has the video. though you can't see them doing amy damage or the confrontation with the guards. You do briefly see one with their hands up and three of them sitting on the ground.

Am I still in the minority who's concerned about how supposedly private security videos from both here and the Olympic Village are getting to tabloids?

Clearly the athletes are the king dumbasses here, but there are a few other tentacles of this which are still embarrassing for the Brazilians too.  The gas station owner perhaps owned his own security footage, but there's no way that the Olympic Village security force did.  And it's STILL astonishing to me that the Brazilians don't seem to have any good sense of who is coming or leaving their country when they issue bench warrants and passport seizures.

Embarrassing all around, I say.  Lochte has soured the Olympics for the whole country even more than Hope Solo (who was just a run of the mill asshole), and at the same time Rio has proven they have some strange backwater quirks at the same time.

[Kromm]

46 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

So, should Lochte and his merry band of idiots just get away with this because there're other crimes happening? At first, I thought the Brazilian authorities were blowing things out of proportion, but I'm glad they followed up on the discrepancies in the story and blew up these guy's spot. This all because Lochte is an attention whore and made a big deal of talking about the trauma and making himself look like some brave hero. 

They should have to pay the consequences (no matter how small they are) and show that white celebrities don't just get to run around and do, or say, whatever they want and get away with it.

Given how people are still bending over backwards to either excuse the behavior or claim they didn't lie, I can see why they feel they need as much evidence as possible out there to show what idiots those guys were. Two of the other guys detained already admitted that the whole robbery thing was a lie.

Lochte and the others should spend a few months in a Brazilian jail, I agree.  

That said, I think at the same time Rio and Brazil should be ashamed of some of what's come out about how badly they run things. Clever of their cops to find inconsistencies of a dumb weak story, sure, but at the same time pretty damn embarrassing to try and arrest people who are already (totally and legally documented) out of their country, and to have security videos leaking all over the place to boot. 

[Ohwell]

53 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

So, should Lochte and his merry band of idiots just get away with this because there're other crimes happening?

No.  they should definitely pay restitution.

[tanyak]

20 minutes ago, againstthewind said:

Guys, I'm *crying* over this article:

10 Reasons Why Ryan Lochte is Actually An International Supervillian

An excerpt:

"In 2012, Lochte was asked in an interview what two words best describe him. “Ryan Lochte,” he said, grinning in a way that, at the time, made me want to tongue kiss him to shut him up. I’d never seen a person closer to both the apex of stupid and the apex of hot. None of us had. During those London games, the world realized simultaneously that they’d slam Ryan Lochte harder than the door of a teen who was just told Justin Bieber quit Instagram, but also, at the same time, they would not trust him with adult scissors."

Dear Lord, that's funny. I feel like a bit of an OG. I was peeping Ryan back in 2008 when everyone else was so focused on Phelps for the first time. I was like "Yeah, yeah, that guy's a good swimmer, but who is his friend?" lol He seemed a bit goofy, but I just chalked that up to him being 22/23. The full extent of his, uh, brain power wasn't really on display until London. 

[galax-arena]

the apex of hot.

Sorry, but I judge anybody who ever found him hot. 

 

 

 

 

(No, I'm not serious about judging people, at least in anything more than a tongue-in-cheek way. But c'mon... him???)

[tanyak]

Yes, him.

*Current foolishness, not withstanding. lol

Edited August 19, 2016 by tanyak

[againstthewind]

4 minutes ago, galax-arena said:

Sorry, but I judge anybody who ever found him hot. 

 

 

 

 

(No, I'm not serious about judging people, at least in anything more than a tongue-in-cheek way. But c'mon... him???)

HE IS PHYSICALLY GORGEOUS.

[blackwing]

So having just seen the video footage...I'm not sure what to make of this anymore.  I can fully believe that Lochte and company ripped down a poster and perhaps smashed a mirror in the bathroom.  But the ridiculous part is the armed rent-a-cop pulling a gun, and ordering them to sit on the ground at gunpoint.  This is where I find some truth in Lochte's statement.  He said a guy approached them, had no badge or ID, pointed a gun at them and ordered them out of the car.  We see 3 of them sitting on the ground.

Sorry, but I find that a bit crazy.  Did they vandalise the gas station?  Probably.  But the proper way to deal with that would be for the owner to call the cops.  They had the licence plate number of the cab and the cab company name.  They could have had the police contact the cab company to find out where the passengers were dropped off.  They have faces on video so could make some inquiries.

I'm not sure if I see "filing a false report" in there.  Because it seems like they did indeed get a gun pulled on them and ordered out of the car.  By a rent-a-cop who likely has zero authority to do so.  I do think the men should pay for the damages, and it appears they already did.  But for the police to detain them and pull them off the plane... I dunno.  Is it acceptable in their society for non-police to point guns at people and force them to the ground?

[dcalley]

2 hours ago, greyhorse said:

Is the "Ryan lied to his mom to explain where all his money went" confirmed, or is that just speculation?

Speculation, both the "to explain where the money went" part (especially that one) and, frankly, that he lied to his mother. We don't know.

2 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I agree. Compared to body parts washing up on the beach and the insane murder rate in Rio, a bunch of drunk jerks lying to the cops is hardly the crime of the century.

(bold mine) The murder rate for Rio itself is better than the city where I live in the USA. Lots of other cities in Brazil have rates that are chart-toppers, though, and maybe some of them border Rio, I don't know. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_murder_rate

[azshadowwalker]

Quote

 

When I first moved to San Francisco a couple of years ago, a body was found hacked up and stuffed in a suitcase the front of the Goodwill in Soma. About the same time, a bunch of cops were caught on tape robbing residents of the Henry Hotel. One of the cops had killed two civilians previously, including the son of a friend of mine,  and gotten away with it both times. He was also one of the cops caught up in racist, homophobic texts and emails, but, again, the cops got away with that, too. Another cop involved in killing a civilian,  the son of another friend of mine, was under indictment for child molestation. Right before I moved home to Arizona, a bunch of cops in Oakland were under investigation for statutory rape. One killed himself. We have mass shootings in this country, judges letting rapists off with slaps on the wrist, a major movement based upon police violence against certain communities (we can't talk about which communities, apparently). The majority of US citizens believe whatever American cops say. Strangely, when their violence is caught on tape, it's always "what came before the video". But when it's a wealthy [redacted] American vs another country's police, it's the American who gets believed by far too many. The video isn't enough, no matter what. There's some "pearl clutching" going on, for sure, and there has been for quite some time in regards to the Rio Olympics. Just not sure it's the Brazilians doing it. 

[Mittengirl]

I think the only thing we can say for certain is that we will never know exactly what all happened that night/morning.  Starting with the fact that all sides have reason to be less than truthful, add in a language difference, then throw in the fact that at least some of the people involved were intoxicated and there really isn't much likelihood that the absolute truth will ever be known.

Edited August 19, 2016 by Mittengirl

[xaxat]

13 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I dunno.  Is it acceptable in their society for non-police to point guns at people and force them to the ground?

It's accepted in US society. In schools, malls, hospitals etc. 

[Daisy]

Canada too. he's a security guard, he is allowed to to be all security-guardy. 

[Kromm]

13 minutes ago, blackwing said:

Is it acceptable in their society for non-police to point guns at people and force them to the ground?

Is that aspect really a "Brazil thing"? 

For good or ill it is considered acceptable in most of the US, in fact. It sounds in some ways like straight up defense of property.  There are wrinkles I'd imagine to hired hands doing it versus a property owner--how they identify themselves I suppose (complicated here I suppose by a language barrier), but really this sounds like an appropriate level (and use) of force (minimal actually). 

[windsprints]

Quote

The video isn't enough, no matter what. 

Is there a video showing Lochte & crew actually doing anything?  The only one I see in the news is the one with the missing 3 minutes.  And why would video be missing like that from security camera footage? I have no problem believing Lochte & crew did something (whatever is was) but there is no video (that I have seen) showing anything.

[doodlebug]

37 minutes ago, blackwing said:

 

I'm not sure if I see "filing a false report" in there.  Because it seems like they did indeed get a gun pulled on them and ordered out of the car.  By a rent-a-cop who likely has zero authority to do so.  I do think the men should pay for the damages, and it appears they already did.  But for the police to detain them and pull them off the plane... I dunno.  Is it acceptable in their society for non-police to point guns at people and force them to the ground?

It's acceptable here in the US.  Plenty of people have firearms and use them to stop real or perceived crimes without penalty.  There is no evidence that the guard pistol whipped them, shot at them, assaulted them or otherwise caused them physical harm.  From his POV, they were criminals who had vandalized the property was working to protect and were attempting to flee.  He could've held them until the cops arrived, instead, he let them go once they handed over some cash to pay for the damages they'd caused.  Had this been in the US, it would not only be perfectly legal, but most employers (and most anyone else) would've felt he handled it well.  Maybe if there had only been one of them and there hadn't been a language barrier, or they hadn't been intoxicated; he might've been able to convince them to stay put until the authorities arrived; but that's not the situation.  The guard made sure they acknowledged the damage and paid for it without resorting to violence despite being outnumbered by drunken idiots who didn't speak the language.  Good on him, I say.

 

Picture the same events happening here in the US.  A group of drunken foreigners destroy property at a business.  Why shouldn't the security person on duty try to hold them responsible?

Edited August 19, 2016 by doodlebug

[sunsheyen]

It is astounding to me the way people 1) try to justify these grown ass men destroying property, urinating in public, and filing a false police report; 2) declare that Brazil shouldn't hold visitors accountable to its laws; and 3) support the same type of mentality that allows people like Susan Smith/Amanda Knox/Charles Stuart to throw out the "mysterious brown person did it" blame to cover their own criminal activity. 

This is not just at this forum, but at SM/media/public in general.

[FilmTVGeek80]

4 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

It's acceptable here in the US.  Plenty of people have firearms and use them to stop real or perceived crimes without penalty.  There is no evidence that the guard pistol whipped them, shot at them, assaulted them or otherwise caused them physical harm.  From his POV, they were criminals who had vandalized the property was working to protect and were attempting to flee.  He could've held them until the cops arrived, instead, he let them go once they handed over some cash to pay for the damages they'd caused.  Had this been in the US, it would not only be perfectly legal, but most employers (and most anyone else) to do the same.  Maybe if there had only been one of them and there hadn't been a language barrier, or they hadn't been intoxicated; he might've been able to convince them to stay put until the authorities arrived; but that's not the situation.  The guard made sure they acknowledged the damage and paid for it without resorting to violence despite being outnumbered by drunken idiots who didn't speak the language.  Good on him, I say.

 

Exactly! In the US, if criminals vandalize/destroy property you'd be well within your rights to protect yourself and, if you can, make sure the perpetrators are arrested. They didn't abuse them. And, while technically, some details of the story were true, if they filed a report saying they were robbed then it's not true. They voluntarily handed over money to pay for the damage they caused.

[doodlebug]

16 minutes ago, windsprints said:

Is there a video showing Lochte & crew actually doing anything?  The only one I see in the news is the one with the missing 3 minutes.  And why would video be missing like that from security camera footage? I have no problem believing Lochte & crew did something (whatever is was) but there is no video (that I have seen) showing anything.

In the part shown on NBC News this evening, there is video of something (a poster, a towel rack?) falling to the ground in the rest room through a partially open door before the athletes are seen leaving via the same door.  Presumably, the broken mirror was also there and there was no video camera in the rest room itself for obvious reasons. They are also shown getting back in the taxi and the security guard approaching the taxi and saying something before pulling out the gun.  Presumably, he was telling them not to leave and they either didn't understand or didn't intend to comply.

Edited August 19, 2016 by doodlebug

[Cherpumple]

3 hours ago, caprice said:

Every time I hear something on this story, an old song runs through my head. I think some of you will recognize it.

"I like 'em big and stupid!"

"What kind of guy does a lot for me? Superman with a lobotomy!"

[jjj]

48 minutes ago, blackwing said:

Because it seems like they did indeed get a gun pulled on them and ordered out of the car.  By a rent-a-cop who likely has zero authority to do so.  I do think the men should pay for the damages, and it appears they already did.  But for the police to detain them and pull them off the plane... I dunno.  Is it acceptable in their society for non-police to point guns at people and force them to the ground?

I have no special knowledge of Brazil.  But in many other countries, the only way to get protection is to hire it yourself.  (And the only way to get hospital care is to show up with your own sheets and hope you have a family member to bring you food.  I have friends who work as OB-GYNs in third-world countries, and the conditions are beyond deplorable.)  So, no, it does not surprise me that a hired gun (literally) felt he had authority to take matters into his own hands.  Given what we have learned about Rio police, it sounds like calling "9-1-1" or "9-9-9" would not get the same kind of response you would hope for an incident in a U.S. city.  And I think these swimmers are lucky they were not hurt, because an amateur cop with a gun is a dangerous mixture. 

Edited August 19, 2016 by jjj

[doodlebug]

1 minute ago, windsprints said:

Thanks doodlebug.  I don't get why the taxi driver left. Surely he would have seen the guard with the gun telling them not to leave. 

I don't think he did leave.  As I recall, once they paid for the damage, the guard let them get back in the taxi and go back to the village.  The driver probably dropped them off and had no idea that they were going to end up lying about what happened.  He didn't have any reason to go to the cops when the robbery story came out because there was no robbery.  My understanding is that, once he realized that the people he'd been driving were those who were claiming to be robbed at gunpoint; he did approach the police and has given a statement that corroborates the gas station manager's and the guard's.

[Kromm]

1 minute ago, evilmindatwork said:

Umm. I don't get the outrage over a security guard with a gun trying to protect the business he's hired to guard. I can assure you that security guards in the US pull guns on people all the time. 

Yeah, if there's embarrassment and misconduct in this story, I haven't heard any part of it which deserves to fall on this guard.  The swimmers get the vast majority of the shame, and Rio/Brazil a medium sized share simply for a few Keystone Cop moments (the previously mentioned aspect of somehow not knowing that Lochte had USED his passport to leave, and whatever the fuck is behind these security videos being public).  The guard?  It just sounds like he was smart and did his job properly. 

[kalystia1983]

2 hours ago, Kromm said:

Am I still in the minority who's concerned about how supposedly private security videos from both here and the Olympic Village are getting to the tabloids.

If you are I am a too. Just had a conversation with a friend saying that I hope they changed up all security in the athlete village after that, cause that really really disturbs me. 

Edited August 19, 2016 by kalystia1983
Typos from my phone....I shouldn't even try.

[Ohwell]

I do think the security guard pulling a gun on the four drunken idiots was unwarranted.  He was not "outnumbered" because the video showed that there were at least two gas station attendants who were also there.  I don't know how much money they paid, but who's to say that the gas station owner got all the money?  Maybe the security guard got his cut.

The whole thing was just so stupid for all involved/concerned parties and I'm just glad Usain Bolt just won another gold medal to take my mind off this shit.

Edited August 19, 2016 by Ohwell

[BlackberryJam]

One security guard. Four enormous drunk men shouting in a foreign language, trying to leave the scene. 

Hmmmmm...sounds like an action that would be validated if it occurred in the US. Hell, in certain States, another customer could pull out a concealed carry and shoot and it would still be considered acceptable.

[Dots And Stripes]

57 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

Exactly! In the US, if criminals vandalize/destroy property you'd be well within your rights to protect yourself and, if you can, make sure the perpetrators are arrested. They didn't abuse them. And, while technically, some details of the story were true, if they filed a report saying they were robbed then it's not true. They voluntarily handed over money to pay for the damage they caused.

I disagree. Whether you can use a gun to defend your business will likely defend on the state. There are also a lot of limits on the ability of businesses to detain suspected shop lifters, etc. because of things like false imprisonment. I know of businesses who use off duty cops as security guards because otherwise the security guards are so constrained.

Also, I would question the voluntariness of handing over money where a gun is involved. Pulling a gun on someone is textbook duress. 

I noticed some interesting wiggle room in what I read from the press conference this afternoon. They said the swimmers were not truthful, but they weren't completely backing the gas station either. No one is perfect and even victims make errors. I'm still waiting for more facts to figure out who did what. Lochte et al were likely behaving badly, but that doesn't give the gas station the right to do absolutely anything and everything to stop them.

[CouchTater]

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

Is it acceptable in their society for non-police to point guns at people and force them to the ground?

At the risk of veering off topic and into extremely sensitive territory, the first incident I thought of when reading the above comment was the acquittal of George Zimmerman, the lunatic who shot and killed Trayvon Martin.  He wasn't even a rent-a-cop, he was on neighborhood watch patrol, and had been ordered by the 911 operator on the phone not to engage with the "suspect."  The "suspect" was a kid in a hoodie holding a bag of skittles and some kind of juice or energy drink.  Acquitted.

So yeah, Brazil isn't unique in the use of enforcement by gun by non-police.

Edited August 19, 2016 by CouchTater

[FormerMod-a1]

And it made the news and generated all kinds of outrage because it is not acceptable.

[Talky Tina]

23 hours ago, choclatechip45 said:

 I think either they were drunk and don't remember what happened or it was real cops who stopped them and Brazilian Authorities do not want that to get out so they are casting suspicion on the swimmers. Ryan is RT NBC and Today Show promoting his Matt Lauer interview. He also RT some guy who believes him because he was robbed in Brazil. Ryan should not be calling more attention to himself right now.

What does RT mean?

[choclatechip45]

4 minutes ago, Talky Tina said:

What does RT mean?

Retweeted

[CouchTater]

1 minute ago, aquarian1 said:

And it made the news and generated all kinds of outrage because it is not acceptable.

Aquarian1, if you're responding to my comment re:  George Zimmerman:  in my book, acquittal = acceptable.  He's still on the streets, continuing to wreak havoc.

[biakbiak]

Just now, Talky Tina said:

What does RT mean?

To retweet. 

There were two security guards and several employees. I am not saying they are right but the video of them that is missing three minutes shows them very calm, so it doesn't really fit some of the narrative. Curious to see a photo of the bathroom.