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The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

frenchtoast

By frenchtoast
in Counting On

cm-soupsipper
Message added by cm-soupsipper,

Closure Notice: This Thread is now closed due to the name (and much of the posting within it). Please be mindful going forward by naming topics in a way that invites a healthy community conversation. If you name something for a cheap laugh, this thread may be closed later because it encourages discrimination and harm. 

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quarks

quarks

1 hour ago, Kiss my mutt said:

Si can see him doing a post-doc and a fellowship to prolong his unemployment. He doesn’t have the chops to lead a mega church or whatever it takes. 

Yeah, I think you're completely correct about his lack of chops. But even if he had any, I just can't see many churches, regardless of size, being thrilled about a potential pastor who shows more interest in gourmet hamburgers and expensive shoes than theology. 

But he and Jinger still have fairly large social media numbers, and have gotten their names on books, so I can see them continuing to pick up the occasional Christian influencer/speaking gig. Maybe even something explaining to us just how Paul's Letters to the Corinthians justify spending money on luxury watches. 

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GeeGolly
GeeGolly

My push presents after having my kids were my kids. 

Spencer Hastings
Spencer Hastings

Tough crowd!  She's wearing modern shoes with closed toes, pants, and a shirt that literally calls back to her family's ridiculous rules and there are still 35 things wrong with what she's doing. 

Churchhoney
Churchhoney

That's okay. He's forgotten it a few times himself. 

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

11 minutes ago, quarks said:

Yeah, I think you're completely correct about his lack of chops. But even if he had any, I just can't see many churches, regardless of size, being thrilled about a potential pastor who shows more interest in gourmet hamburgers and expensive shoes than theology. 

But he and Jinger still have fairly large social media numbers, and have gotten their names on books, so I can see them continuing to pick up the occasional Christian influencer/speaking gig. Maybe even something explaining to us just how Paul's Letters to the Corinthians justify spending money on luxury watches. 

I don't know, burgers and kicks are cheaper than mansions, planes and helicopters. And... there's likely a new generation ready and willing to throw their money at "hip" preacher.

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quarks

quarks

6 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I don't know, burgers and kicks are cheaper than mansions, planes and helicopters. And... there's likely a new generation ready and willing to throw their money at "hip" preacher.

...I don't think I personally would or even could describe Jeremy as "hip" even with the use of quote marks.

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ginger90

ginger90

2 hours ago, quarks said:

But he and Jinger still have fairly large social media numbers

The problem with the numbers is, they don’t match with engagement. Normally that’s what gets looked at. For example, Jinger has 1.4 million followers. However, just looking at the most recent, her posts have less than 20 replies, with the exception of a new year’s post with 49, and a Christmas post which has around 500 replies. 
 

It’s very rare for Jinger to even reply to those posts. Zero engagement. There are people who buy “followers”, so engagement is important. 

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

If you compare Jinger, Jessa, Jill and Joy's IG numbers, Jessa out does them all. She has 2.5 million followers and gets 15k - 100k in likes. Joy has 1.1 million and gets the same numbers in likes as Jessa, although she hovers around 25k. Jinger has 1.4, similar numbers in likes, but hovers around 20k. Jill has 1.8, rarely goes above 50k and averages under 10k.

Two things Jessa and Joy have in common are YouTube channels and they show their kids on IG.

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Zella

Zella

I never get the impression Jeremy actually is interested in the things he bandies around. He would actually probably be more interesting as a person (even as a pretentious one) if he had hobbies he genuinely liked, but the vibe I've always gotten from him is he wants the attention from the persona rather than any sincere interest. He also reminds me a lot of this:

30 Rock Hello GIF

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quarks

quarks

(edited)
5 hours ago, ginger90 said:

The problem with the numbers is, they don’t match with engagement. Normally that’s what gets looked at. For example, Jinger has 1.4 million followers. However, just looking at the most recent, her posts have less than 20 replies, with the exception of a new year’s post with 49, and a Christmas post which has around 500 replies. 
 

It’s very rare for Jinger to even reply to those posts. Zero engagement. There are people who buy “followers”, so engagement is important. 

Oh, sure. But to be fair, that reduced engagement is true across the board right now - with pretty much everyone from celebrities to government officials to people chatting about kittens reporting a major drop in engagement on multiple social networks. So that's probably not as big of an issue as it once was.

The bigotry and the apparent complete inability to sound sincere about anything, plus the pseudointellectualism, are, I think, bigger problems. Or maybe they just irritate me more.

But even with those problems, Jinger apparently earned somewhere in the low six figures in 2017 from various sponsored social media things. The huge reduction in posts makes me think that she's probably earning considerably less than that now, but it does demonstrate that working as Christian influencers isn't completely unrealistic for them.

 

Edited by quarks
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laurakaye

laurakaye

It's a good thing Jeremy has lots of connections in the world of hamburgers and fancy shoes, because he may need that to secure an honest living someday flipping those burgers or selling those shoes.  He can't grift forever under the guise of "student," but I have to say, he's done pretty darn good so far.  If he ever pairs up with JillRod, there's no telling how far they could go.

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laurakaye

laurakaye

57 minutes ago, BetyBee said:

I think he will work for MacArthur and that he probably hopes to replace MacArthur when/if he retires.

is Jeremy even qualified for that?  Genuinely asking, because I can't see him going from part-time student/preacher/influencer to the leader of a megachurch, although I have no doubt Jeremy thinks he could handle it.

I also wonder if Johnny Mac has been using Jeremy this whole time because of who he's married to, and Jeremy has been enjoying the perks and hoping to float on for as long as he can.  I have always thought it was a weird arrangement between two men with giant egos.

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BetyBee

BetyBee

11 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

is Jeremy even qualified for that?  Genuinely asking, because I can't see him going from part-time student/preacher/influencer to the leader of a megachurch, although I have no doubt Jeremy thinks he could handle it.

I also wonder if Johnny Mac has been using Jeremy this whole time because of who he's married to, and Jeremy has been enjoying the perks and hoping to float on for as long as he can.  I have always thought it was a weird arrangement between two men with giant egos.

I think Jeremy would eventually be as qualified as Johnny Mac himself. However, I don't know what attracts people to MacArthur. Perhaps he's an engaging speaker? I don't think Jeremy is, from what I hear.

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Zella

Zella

(edited)

I don't think Jeremy has the wherewithal to emerge as a MacArthur replacement, though I don't doubt he fancies that for himself. Jeremy strikes me as someone who's very desperate to be liked, which I doubt is a great personality trait for playing MacArthur version of Game of Thrones, and he also lacks the charisma or gravitas that you'd need for that. 

A bit of a diversion, but I think the same principle applies. I once read an insightful interview with an author who's written about a lot of cult figures, and he was asked about the difference between Charles Manson and Jim Jones. He basically said Manson was too much of an overtly off-putting weirdo to appeal to anyone but a couple of dozen disaffected outcasts. Jones at the height of his power could and did manipulate very affluent, intelligent, well-educated people and maintained a sizeable congregation.

I think Jeremy is likewise too much of an off-putting weirdo to ever appeal to enough people to achieve replacing MacArthur. That's not to say MacArthur himself isn't an off-putting weirdo himself. I coined the term Hateful Old Fuck for him a few years ago for a reason. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 But he does seem to have enough people believing he's not an off-putting weirdo to be successful at his purpose. Jeremy just radiates desperation and off-putting weirdo, and in the past, pastoring one church seemed like too much work for him. I don't see him growing enough to suddenly be able to rule MacArthur's empire. 

Edited by Zella
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oliviabenson

oliviabenson

3 hours ago, laurakaye said:

It's a good thing Jeremy has lots of connections in the world of hamburgers and fancy shoes, because he may need that to secure an honest living someday flipping those burgers or selling those shoes.  He can't grift forever under the guise of "student," but I have to say, he's done pretty darn good so far.  If he ever pairs up with JillRod, there's no telling how far they could go.

Imagine Jinger selling plexus??? She would probably outsell JillPM lol. Jill PM head would explode!

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

I don't Jeremy could handle MacDaddy's job, but I think he'd make a great yes man circling around whoever is in charge.

Jeremy's IG reflects a guy trying to find out who he is - which appears to be an odd duck. However, I think he may be waddling with his flock. In other words, he likely fits right in with all the MacDaddy suit wearing homies.

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Absolom

Absolom

8 hours ago, BetyBee said:

However, I don't know what attracts people to MacArthur. Perhaps he's an engaging speaker? I don't think Jeremy is, from what I hear.

IMO, MacArthur is not engaging.  I've suffered through a couple of sermons of his and the only thing he has going for him is that he communicates the rightness and certainty of what he's saying.  It's super easy if you aren't well churched in another tradition to be convinced he has THE answers.  Sadly for him, I'm a well catechized in a different system.  MacArthur drones on and on and on for close to an hour and has very little inflection in his voice, tells no jokes or interesting stories, and just tries to sound super educated.  Sound like anyone else we know?

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CalicoKitty

CalicoKitty

3 hours ago, floridamom said:

Like many of think....Jinger merely traded Gothard for MacArthur. How is MacArthur such an expert in all things spiritual?

That's a good question.  I am very surprised by the main stream, liturgical churches that use McArthur's materials for Bible study classes.  Most people have no idea of his background or actual teachings in his daily life.

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auntieminem

auntieminem

Jinger posted another video from Joy & Austin's visit.  This one is the rock climbing adventure.  Joy and Austin sure have visited the Jinger and Jeremy a lot. Have Jessa and Ben been out to LA to visit? Of course with 5 young kids that would be a hard and expensive trip.  Jessa's kids seem to have the most boring childhood of all the the Duggar grands. 

 

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Salacious Kitty

Salacious Kitty

(edited)

Punchable Aunt Cade is a father again. Gabby gave birth to Ivy Josephine, to be called Ivy Jo. Poor Gabby. If Cade keeps her pregnant, she's not going to have much of a career, and let's face it, she's the talented one in that couple.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/music/other/gabby-barrett-husband-cade-foehner-welcome-their-third-child-photo/ar-BB1irHuE

Edited by Salacious Kitty
Auto fill strikes again!
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awaken

awaken

26 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Punchable Aunt Cade is a father again. Gabby gave birth to Ivy Josephine, to be called Ivy Jo. Poor Gabby. If Cade keeps her pregnant, she's not going to have much of a career, and let's face it, she's the talented one in that couple.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/music/other/gabby-barrett-husband-cade-foehner-welcome-their-third-child-photo/ar-BB1irHuE

Ivy jo is suspiciously similar to Cade’s mancrush Jeremy’s evy Jo. 

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MaryAnneSpier

MaryAnneSpier

Just yesterday I found that Gabby and Cade are going to be in a thriller/ horror movie. And it’s not a director who makes “Christian horror” films, so that is a bit puzzling. I saw Gabby’s name in the cast list and then was both surprised and not surprised that further down, Cade was listed as well.  That dude needs to quit riding her coattails.  

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Future Cat Lady

Future Cat Lady

5 hours ago, MaryAnneSpier said:

Just yesterday I found that Gabby and Cade are going to be in a thriller/ horror movie. And it’s not a director who makes “Christian horror” films, so that is a bit puzzling. I saw Gabby’s name in the cast list and then was both surprised and not surprised that further down, Cade was listed as well.  That dude needs to quit riding her coattails.  

The controling asshole probably wouldn't let her do it unless he was in it.

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xwordfanatik

xwordfanatik

I wish that Gabby would tell PAC that she's done being pregnant.  

3 minutes ago, Future Cat Lady said:

The controling asshole probably wouldn't let her do it unless he was in it.

I see it that way, too.  I think he's purposely knocking her up to keep that control freak fundie thing going on.

I wonder if RAD homie will follow suit with Jinjer?

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Future Cat Lady

Future Cat Lady

2 hours ago, xwordfanatik said:

I wish that Gabby would tell PAC that she's done being pregnant.  

I see it that way, too.  I think he's purposely knocking her up to keep that control freak fundie thing going on.

I wonder if RAD homie will follow suit with Jinjer?

I don't think there is evidence that Jeremy is as controling as Cade.

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satrunrose

satrunrose

Yeah, I'm happy to make fun of our Rad homie and there's a lot I don't much care for about him, but they have two kids who are pretty spaced out and not a peep about trying for more (Credit where credit is due, I really expected Jer to keep pushing until he had at least a couple of sons). I'm not saying that their quiver is full (ugh) and they may end up with more, but I don't get the same sense of someone using pregnancy and kids to control their wives with Jer as I do from Cade.

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Gemma Violet

Gemma Violet

I saw this article on Jinger and Jeremy that mentions they live in an $830,000 home.  In most places, an $830,000 house would be quite the showplace, but in California, I'm guessing it's just an average house?

https://www.the-sun.com/tv/10470739/duggar-fans-spot-bizarre-detail-in-family-photo-jinger/ 

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quarks

quarks

 

15 hours ago, floridamom said:

How did they qualify for an $830,000 house?

They presumably had at least some cash from the sale of their Laredo house, the appearance fees from Counting On, and the advance from their first book. They also apparently spent their first couple of years in L.A. at a house owned by a church member; it's not clear if they were paying any rent. Given all that, they were presumably able to put down a sizeable down payment. 

Jeremy does have some sort of part-time job at that school - I doubt it pays all that much, but, hey, steady employment. And when Jinger testified in that civil trial, she stated that she was earning somewhere in the low six figures from various influencing gigs. 

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Salacious Kitty

Salacious Kitty

7 minutes ago, quarks said:

 

They presumably had at least some cash from the sale of their Laredo house, the appearance fees from Counting On, and the advance from their first book. They also apparently spent their first couple of years in L.A. at a house owned by a church member; it's not clear if they were paying any rent. Given all that, they were presumably able to put down a sizeable down payment. 

Jeremy does have some sort of part-time job at that school - I doubt it pays all that much, but, hey, steady employment. And when Jinger testified in that civil trial, she stated that she was earning somewhere in the low six figures from various influencing gigs. 

I believe Jinger's income derived mostly from the books. Their online presence h as s never been consistent or frequent. Failed 

Podcast that only lasted a handful of episodes, maybe 5 cooking shows, infrequent YouTube. None of that brought in much 

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quarks

quarks

21 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

I believe Jinger's income derived mostly from the books. Their online presence h as s never been consistent or frequent. Failed 

Podcast that only lasted a handful of episodes, maybe 5 cooking shows, infrequent YouTube. None of that brought in much 

It's an interesting question, isn't it - how exactly did she reach that six figure income, given in her September 2021 deposition, a statement that, given the timing, presumably reflected her 2020 tax statement/income?

I agree with you that it wasn't the podcast - I don't think they made any money from that, presumably why they dropped it so quickly. Same with the cooking shows.

But I also think it's very unlikely that the income she mentioned in September 2021 came mostly from the books. To start with, in September 2021, she and Jeremy only had the one book - The Hope We Hold - published by Hachette in May 2021. That book is still in print three years later and apparently selling a few copies per month over at Amazon, but I don't think that it earned out in its first couple of years, mostly because Hachette didn't publish the third book. Harper Collins did.

The children's book, You Can Shine So Bright, wasn't published until 2022. It's possible that Jinger was referring to this book as well in her deposition, since she could have received part of the advance for that book in 2022 - but it's equally possible that Hachette held that part of the advance until returns started coming in for The Hope We Hold, which would not have started until September 2021 at the earliest. 

The third book, Becoming Free Indeed, published January 2023, was presumably sold at some point after November 2021, after Hachette's six month review of sales for The Hope We Hold. So any advance for that would not have been counted for her September 2021 deposition. (And there are solid reasons to think that she sold Becoming Free Indeed at some point after a certain criminal trial)

Speaking of those advances: the typical advance for comparative books (memoirs by minor celebrities and/or Christian inspirational books) is somewhere between $60,000 to $120,000. For picture books, usually somewhere between $15,000 to $30,000, regardless of the author. Those books were credited to both Jinger and Jeremy; funds were either paid to them jointly or split. 

Those advances would have been split into at least three payments, more likely four, spread out over at least two years: one payment on signing (presumably 2019), one payment on delivery (2020), one payment on publication (2021) and possibly an additional payment post early returns (2022), which Hachette (and other Big Five publishers) can and does withhold depending upon sales. 

Let's assume, for a moment, that Jeremy and Jinger used their roles as "breakout stars" to negotiate a higher advance of $120,000 here, and that - somewhat unusually for Hachette - it was split into three payments and they received all three payments. That's $40,000 for the first book both of them - or $20,000 for Jinger - each year, before the agent cut of 10 to 15%. 

This fits in pretty well with the income Jeremy reported in his deposition - somewhere around $40,000, which sounds about right for a part time academic job, one or two speaking gigs, and that advance. 

It also fits in with what Jinger said - that she earned money from the show, "brand partnerships," and the book, apparently in that order, suggesting that as of September 2021, the book had earned less than the show and brand partnerships. 

I don't know if Jinger received any payments for the show in 2021. But she presumably did in 2020, when Counting On was still filming and on cable/streaming.  The other big question is the amount.  Presumably - TLC/Discovery/Jim Bob paid both her and Jeremy. Jeremy, though, reported a much lower income. So either they weren't paid the same amount - possible - or, the appearance fees were paid into an LLC, which later paid Jinger one amount and Jeremy another. 

The other oddity is that Jinger was the only one of the four sisters to report a six figure income. Granted, by September 2021 Jill had been off the show for some time, and at the time, Joy wasn't doing as much on social media, but neither of these applies to Jessa, and I don't think the book was enough to explain the gap between Jessa and Jinger.

Those "brand partnerships" though, maybe. Not that any of those partnerships seemed to last long, but Jinger was paid in advance for them, and she had fairly sizeable social media numbers. I expect that did bring in something, which may help explain the discrepancies between her income, Jeremy's income (he was also trying "brand partnerships" at the time, but had far fewer followers on social media), and Jessa's income (lack of access to Los Angeles "brand partnerships.")

For 2022 and 2023 though, after that deposition, and after Josh's trial, things may have switched, with the books bringing in more money than the "brand partnerships," which seem to have lessened considerably post-trial. And of course, the show money is gone. So for those years, her income may not have been in the six figures. 

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

I think in the beginning Jinger was shilling the same products as Jill and Jessa. But from what I read on here, many posters from Redditt were quick to contact the brands to make them aware of Jinger's beliefs. Then she did some local to her shills, but again I guess the Jinger haters were out in full force. So while I think she did make income from shilling, it wasn't likely as much as her sisters did.

As far the continuing mystery of the Duggar kids' finances, I do think J&J negotiated straight out of the gate with either TLC or JB. They went from a tiny apartment to a house pretty quick. A house in which they had a custom library/office built. And then the clothes for both J&J, the books, the fountain pens and pocket squares, the piano, etc.

Then the move to LA and their spending didn't slow down until they purchased their current house.

So I do think J&J were making more from the show than the other kidults, but... I also think Jinger sort of guessed when responding to the question about income. IIRC she first said she wasn't sure what it was and was given income brackets to pick from. I don't recall what the ranges were, but apparently she picked the one that topped at $100,000.

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quarks

quarks

16 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

What brands did she endorse? I don't remember her ever giving out a discount code. She probably did, and I rolled my eyes and immediately put it out of mind. 😀

Influencers can get paid without giving out a discount code. 

She was making a point of shopping at various boutiques and eating at different restaurants. There's a non-zero chance she received some sort of kickback from at least some of those posts.

12 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

 

So I do think J&J were making more from the show than the other kidults, but... I also think Jinger sort of guessed when responding to the question about income. IIRC she first said she wasn't sure what it was and was given income brackets to pick from. I don't recall what the ranges were, but apparently she picked the one that topped at $100,000.

The thing is, asking someone in Jinger's earnings situation in September about what her yearly earnings will be by the end of December 2021 is always, always going to be a guess. So I can't read that much into that.

And it's also a pretty safe guess that her earnings fluctuated not just month by month, but year by year. Counting On aired 22 episodes in 2017; 18 episodes in 2018; 17 episodes in 2019; 12 episodes in 2020, and of course was cancelled in 2021. The "brand engagement' income may have taken a hit in 2020 for Covid-related reasons, creating more uncertainty.

Her lawyers, though, let that six figure number into the deposition record, despite knowing that it was harmful to their case, so I don't think it was completely unfounded.

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cm-soupsipper
Message added by cm-soupsipper,

Closure Notice: This Thread is now closed due to the name (and much of the posting within it). Please be mindful going forward by naming topics in a way that invites a healthy community conversation. If you name something for a cheap laugh, this thread may be closed later because it encourages discrimination and harm. 

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