S06.E10: The Winds of Winter

[Gertrude]

18 minutes ago, ulkis said:

I was actually hoping Jon would say thanks, but no thanks, that title belongs to my sister. 

Or, you know, my brother? (whom I totally know is alive because Sam told me and then Sansa told me again off screen. And everyone else should know because Rickon turned up alive after all)

 

But I digress ... this is a night for enjoying the wonderful things we got in this episode.

[SimoneS]

3 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

She could have saved Loras if she'd sided with her family when they went to rescue her in the street. (Or one Olenna offered it later.) The sparrows were totally outnumbered.

How were the sparrows out numbered with all the people on their side. They all would have been killed. It was have been a slaughter. Margaery was clearly biding her time. Hoping to use Tommen's conversion to get them all out of the mess. She managed to save Olenna at least. I am sure Margaery had a plan to save them all much like Oosha tried against Ramsay. It just didn't work out. Just like with Oosha, you see conniving ugly motivation where it doesn't exist on screen.

Edited June 27, 2016 by SimoneS

[Mya Stone]

Stray thoughts: 

 

Time is not really linear on GoT. So, whereas I was like WHOA VARYS WTF in the last scene, it took Mr. Stone to remind me that earlier in the episode they were repainting and decorating Dany's newfound ships, so that the last scene was meant to take place some time later. 

The fact that the maesters didn't know about LC Mormont (RIP) and Aemon (RIP) I think were meant to illustrate that they are really, really out of touch with the present...which, when you're facing an ancient threat, might not be so bad? Maybe? 

I floved that Sansa apologized to Jon about withholding her information with the Vale army and saying she didn't know why she did it, and declaring she didn't trust LF. Thank. God. 

Lastly, when Arya kills, she goes completely dead-eyed and emotionless. It happened in the Meryn Trant kill, and it happened again in the Frey kill. It's an interesting acting choice by Maisie. 

[lmsweb]

3 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

I thought they left the name silent solely to avoid Lyanna using Targaryen or the bastard name for their line or Stark as a last name.  The first indicating a marriage and the last two... not.

I cranked it up as loud as I dared (have to be mindful of other people sleeping) and I think someone who can read lips and can separate that whisper from any background noise may be able to figure it out.

[benteen]

I think this is the first time that I'm looking forward to the show more than the book.  GRRM really dropped the ball with himself by not at least finishing Winds of Winter.  He has no one to blame but himself.

It's interesting how many of the major houses (and houses like Bolton and Frey) are on the verge of extinction.  Well, Walder has a lot of kids but still...Westeros is going to be a very different place by the end of this show.

[LilaFowler]

I love that little Lady Lyanna Mormont!  That child has presence. Let's pray to the old gods and the new that she gets a Guest Emmy nomination.  

I gotta watch this again before I make a real post.  I do think that I enjoyed E09 slightly more just because of the epic battle and action scenes.  But then I love LOTR and the Matrix trilogy and all that type of shit, so.

[ulkis]

2 minutes ago, Gertrude said:

Or, you know, my brother? (whom I totally know is alive because Sam told me and then Sansa told me again off screen. And everyone else should know because Rickon turned up alive after all)

 

But I digress ... this is a night for enjoying the wonderful things we got in this episode.

Or that too, definitely. But that was a while ago, so maybe they;ve given up on Bran.

[anyanka323]

21 minutes ago, jcin617 said:

I suspect Bran will tell him.   And Sansa was smiling when he was proclaimed King (she even said earlier he should be Lord of Winterfell) so I think she's genuinely happy for him.   I think she knows it pissed off Littlefinger, though, which is why she looked concerned.

I think she is genuinely happy for his and behind him as the leader in the north.  She knows that there will always be someone questioning her qualifications and credentials to be the face of the North/Starks because of her marital history, so it makes more sense to throw her support behind Jon.  She also seems more willing to work behind the scenes and apply a more human touch, rather than make big speeches.  She knows that in order to take on the White Walkers, morale in the North needs to be rebuilt to ensure a unified people.  Look at how she handled herself in contrast to Cersei during the Battle of Blackwater Bay, comforting the women and leading them in songs and prayer while Cersei drank and planned to kill herself and Tommen.  She could be the soft, human side of the Northern leadership and be active in planning for the long winter.

[Oscirus]

Another thing of interest is Sansa possibly becoming ymbq through LF. She did share a look with Baelish at the end.

[that one guy]

17 minutes ago, bluvelvet said:

I don't know if Jon/Dany marriage is likely since she is his aunt, although she is a Targaryen and family ties never stopped them before but I don't see the benefit in her marrying Jon since the marriage won't help her cement her position in KL

I don't think it would help her position in KL, although if his Targ heritage becomes known, a marriage would combine the two claims and make a better case to the Targ Loyalists still out there - although on the show this is basically Mrs Peel and the Sand Snakes, who are inclined to support Dany anyway. But KL, as has been said elsewhere, is in turmoil and would probably welcome Dany if she can bring stability. The Starks know the Night's King is coming, so they aren't interested in lineage or legitimacy. Jon's pretty much going to say "Send 1000 Unsullied to defend the wall and I'll support your claim and be your cabana boy too if that's what it takes" and Sansa's going to say "name me Warden of the North and reaffirm my title to my home." Actually a pretty low bar. But if you need Valyrian blood to control the dragons, a Jon/Dany union makes a lot of sense. The show hasn't gone into it, but Dany's parents were also brother and sister, weren't they? It's not fair to pick on the Lannisters for doing what their liege lords did all the time...

Speaking of which, RIP Tommen. You were too naive for this world. With you gone, I guess Jon inherits that title?

Boy, the Slate Game of Thrones Graveyard is gonna have a lot of new tombstones this week. 3 Freys, Marge, Mace, Loras, the High Sparrow, Lancel . . . damn, the show made me feel sad about Lancel's death.

Hey, there are not even any fake Baratheons left! If Gendry ever stops rowing, Storm's End should be his! I don't need a lot of material for him, but Gendry should return at least for a couple scenes where he forges cool armor for Dany and Arya.

[Eyes High]

11 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

Jon's name is something totally crazy, isn't it? The opposite of "Jon." Not sure what that would be.

I'm guessing Rhaegar was planning on Jon being a girl and naming her Visenya, given how he named his first two kids (Aegon and Rhaenys). I guess the male equivalent of that would be Viserys?

Am I the only one who when watching Ned and Lyanna's deathbed scene thought of Fantine's deathbed scene with Jean Valjean in Les Miserables? Just me, then? Right.

Edited June 27, 2016 by Eyes High

[The Mighty Peanut]

Lady Lyanna Mormont couldn't be more of a badass if she were walking away from an explosion in slow motion. What a little gangster! 

[Gertrude]

I just realized why I loved this episode. It finally felt like we got some closure and the endings we should have gotten in book 5. Sure, it doesn't line up entirely and we're past Cersei's plot and Jon took over some of Stannis' purpose, but overall it felt like a proper climax and resolution. Much of it was expected or anticipated, but at least we know we are headed into new and exciting stuff, not just tying up loose ends anymore.

[kieyra]

Jonnerys Targaryen?

[Lemuria]

18 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

It's definitely going to be a Targaryeon sounding name. It's not going to be an Eddard or Benjen or Brandon kind of name.

I offer "Jonarys."  Would be Targaryen-ish and it would let us keep calling him Jon.

I very much liked the scenes between Jon and Sansa.  I especially liked that he didn't confront her about the Vale army and that she came forward on her own to apologize for not telling him.  And I loved the "winter" scene.

Edited to add:  Kierya beat me to it!

Edited June 27, 2016 by Lemuria
Acknowledging a faster mind!

[Advance35]

Also worth mentioning, I can't remember which poster said it a LONG time ago but they were right about Cersei in the sense that no matter who you are or what it will cost her, whatever you do to her, she ALWAYS does 10 times the damage back at you, even if it hurts her in the process.   And even when it's unwitting.   Lady Olenna murdered Joffrey and Cersei hit back to the 12th power.

It's kind of sad that Olenna meant to save Margery's life by murdering Joffrey, but that led to Tyrions incarceration which led to Tywin's murder, which led to the cage door being opened on Cersei unleashed.   And her entire family is dead because of it.  Growing Strong No More.

[Gertrude]

Jaeharys? Could have kept the J and used Jon Arryn's name to cover it.

[magdalene]

Even though Cersei is not too subtly now an eeevil! Disney queen - with added incest - I did appreciate her taking out the pious high sparrow. I loathed that fucker for every second he was on screen.

[lmsweb]

HOLY SHIT - what if Jon's name is really Dracarys?

[Gertrude]

Yeah, it's kind of hard to feel bad for Olenna except for the scale of revenge, and that it wasn't actually revenge - it was by accident owing to Cersei's pettiness.. I still love me some QoT though, if only to keep the Sand Snakes in line.

[Minneapple]

Just now, Lemuria said:

I offer "Jonarys."  Would be Targaryen-ish and it would let us keep calling him Jon.

I like this. Jaeharys also wouldn't bother me. Good thing we have an ENTIRE FUCKING YEAR to come up with crazy theories for Jon's name!

[gwhh]

I see everyone was drinking from the crazy juice this week!!

I don't like Arya becoming Hannibal lector.  Jut kill them, don't cook them and let someone else eat them!!

So we know who Lord Snow mom is.  But who is father?

I think the Starks should finish the series by all having a group kill on littlefinger.  He started this all by betraying there father when he went to move against the Lennisters.  Remember, he was suppose to bribe the city guards to support the Starks, but bride the city guards to go against them!

What was the mountain showing that woman in the dungeons, as he took off his amour, what was so bad about it??

Who was the kid that stabbed that guy in the basement as he was setting the green fire bombs?

Nice to see the Queen was not under the Sparrows spell at the end!!

Why did the Grand Maester have to die and what purpose did his death serve?  Who was he really working for, or with??

 

Arya kick butt:

http://www.bustle.com/articles/168937-14-times-arya-stark-outwitted-everyone-around-her-on-game-of-thrones

 

Summary of tonight show:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/entertainthis/2016/06/26/game-of-thrones-recap-season-6-episode-10-the-winds-of-winter-season-finale/86418364/

Edited June 27, 2016 by gwhh

[kieyra]

1 minute ago, magdalene said:

Even though Cersei is not too subtly now an eeevil! Disney queen - with added incest - I did appreciate her taking out the pious high sparrow. I loathed that fucker for every second he was on screen.

Yes. Love Jonathan Pryce, but of all the unpleasantness we subject ourselves to for GoT, it's still escapist fantasy--until they hit us with the religious fanaticism. 

[Eyes High]

7 minutes ago, Gertrude said:

Jaeharys? Could have kept the J and used Jon Arryn's name to cover it.

I'm guessing his real name was meant to be indistinct, but it looked like she was mouthing "Ow--" or "Al--" something. Not very Targish in either case, but that's the best I saw.

Great bit of nonverbal acting from Jonathan Pryce when his eyes met Margaery's just before the explosion killed them: there was real fear and regret there. I won't miss the High Sparrow--good riddance--but I will miss Jonathan Pryce.

Edited June 27, 2016 by Eyes High

[InsertWordHere]

19 minutes ago, lmsweb said:

It's definitely going to be a Targaryeon sounding name. It's not going to be an Eddard or Benjen or Brandon kind of name.

I've always thought it would be Jaehaerys. 

[cryptaknight]

2 minutes ago, gwhh said:

I don't like Arya becoming Hannibal lector.  Jut kill them, don't cook them and let someone else eat them!!

So we know who Lord Snow mom is.  But who is father?

I think the Starks should finish the series by all having a group kill on littlefinger.  He started this all by betraying there father when he went to move against the Lennisters.  Remember, he was suppose to bribe the city guards to support the Starks, but bride the city guards to go against them!

What was the mountain showing that woman in the dungeons, as he took off his amour, what was so bad about it??

I think it was more a Shakespearean maneuver, right out of Titus Andronicus. She didn't partake of the pie, after all. ;)

I can't imagine who else would be Jon's father, if not Rhaegar.

For me it would be more satisfying to see LF brought totally low, all his machinations for nothing. 

I'm fairly sure it was his penis, unfortunately.

[that one guy]

1 minute ago, gwhh said:

So we know who Lord Snow mom is.  But who is father?

What was the mountain showing that woman in the dungeons, as he took off his amour, what was so bad about it??

Jon's father is Dany's brother Rhaegar, who allegedly "kidnapped" Lyanna. He didn't, she was pregnant with his child so she ran off with him.

The Mountain just showed Septa Unella his face, he's a zombie, so it's really gross. I don't know what the connection between Undead Gregor and the wights is, but it's scary - Qyburn may be in league with the Night's King somehow.

[mac123x]

I had to look away when they were cutting Loras's forehead, but thankfully it didn't go the direction I was fearing when someone pulled out a knife - I honestly thought they might castrate him and I really didn't want to see or hear or even think about that.  

 

And I totally enjoyed Cercei getting back at Septa Unella.  I was flinching from that scene a bit too, so I wasn't sure:  when Cercei reminded Unella that "my face will be the last you'll ever see" did she then have Frankengregor gouge out her eyes?

 

This show has trained me to expect the  worst mutilations.  I should probably get therapy.

[Oscirus]

Quote

Jon's father is Dany's brother Rhaegar, who allegedly "kidnapped" Lyanna. He didn't, she was pregnant with his child so she ran off with him.

I doubt she got pregnant until after they ran away.

Edited June 27, 2016 by Oscirus

[Enigma X]

I am a little confused on why nonbook readers are confused by whom Jon's father is. I think the hints have been as heavy on the show as they are in the books. Any surprises would be sort of bad writing (for surprise sake) in both mediums imo.

[Alapaki]

2 minutes ago, that one guy said:

The Mountain just showed Septa Unella his face, he's a zombie, so it's really gross. I don't know what the connection between Undead Gregor and the wights is, but it's scary - Qyburn may be in league with the Night's King somehow.

Speaking of which, I just assumed that FrankenGregor was going to slowly dismember Ulenna.  My wife thought that Gregor removing his helmet, along with Cersei's "shame . . . shame . . . " suggested that he was going to rape her over and over again.

Thoughts?

[that one guy]

16 minutes ago, The Mighty Peanut said:

Lady Lyanna Mormont couldn't be more of a badass if she were walking away from an explosion in slow motion. What a little gangst

Well, shit. Now I need to see this in Season 7.

[domina89]

Loved everything mentioned so far. Two minor things I loved: seeing the dire wolf sigil back at Winterfell in the opening credits and also seeing the dyson sphere from the credits hanging up inside the Citadel library. Nice touches. 

[Gertrude]

I thought the 'shame ... shame ... shame' hinted at horrifying rape in Unella's future.

 

Also, I kind of chuckled when Gregor removed his helm. All I could think of is all the people who are convinced Gregor has no head anymore. (hint - they sent a dwarf head to Dorne)

Edited June 27, 2016 by Gertrude

[gwhh]

21 hours ago, Alapaki said:

Speaking of which, I just assumed that FrankenGregor was going to slowly dismember Ulenna.  My wife thought that Gregor removing his helmet, along with Cersei's "shame . . . shame . . . " suggested that he was going to rape her over and over again.

Thoughts?

I was thinking more rape than dismember also.  Being rape by a magical zombie, would be so nasty.  It would make dismembering look like a welcome event by a way of comparison.

Edited June 28, 2016 by gwhh

[huahaha]

37 minutes ago, Raachel2008 said:

It was not. I watched the episode with five friends, four of them never read the books. They kept asking "but if he is not Ned's son, who is Jon's father?", and even with the 'previously in GoT' scene where Littlefinger tells Sansa that Rhaegar 'kidnapped and raped Lyanna' they had many doubts.

I think D&D decided to split the reveal about Jon: this season the non-book viewer learns that his mother is Lyanna Stark, next season the non-book viewer learn he is a Targaryen.

I don't see how they missed it, unless they also missed the previous scene at the tower where Ned asked Arthur Dayne why he hadn't protected Rhaegar, and Dayne said, "My prince wants me here."

[Eyes High]

Cersei and Dany had similar costuming in their final scenes: black (or dark grey in Dany's case) with silver shoulder details and a chain-type thing across the front. Dany's was a modified version of her Season 5 gowns, except black with silver detailing on the shoulders instead of white. The black studded fabric on Cersei's gown reminded me of Tywin's leather tunics, and the silver shoulder details reminded me of the metallic armour-like corsets and belts she used to wear. There was nothing Lannister about the colour scheme for Cersei, though. It definitely looks like a showdown between the two queens.

I did a double take when I saw Varys standing behind Dany in that shot.

What percentage of KL actually burned? Seems like a lot of the city is still standing.

Edited June 27, 2016 by Eyes High

[Oscirus]

Yea I'm pretty sure it was rape. Why else keep the Septa alive other then to humiliate her?

[that one guy]

4 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

I doubt they got pregnant until after they ran away.

Well, maybe. But based on "The World of Ice and Fire" I believe they hooked up at the Tournament at Harrenhall. Rhaegar was tasked with finding the identity of the mystery knight and killing him by his father the Mad King. Upon discovering it was fiery hot chick Lyanna Stark, Rhaegar, um, disregarded his orders . . . 

[lmsweb]

When Qyborn was crowning Cersei....he ALSO had a Hand of the King (Queen) pinned on him. Interesting.

[spottedreptile]

1 minute ago, huahaha said:

I don't see how they missed it, unless they also missed the previous scene at the tower where Ned asked Arthur Dayne why he hadn't protected Rhaegar, and Dayne said, "My prince wants me here."

It can be pretty confusing to remember stuff like this if you're not a book reader or up on the general goss, so I can see how some people missed it. But then again Rhaegar's name has been bandied about pretty freely with regard to Lyanna, so maybe some folks just don't listen to what is being said much.

[MadMouse]

Hmm don't know what to think of this episode. First off all hail Daeron third of his name.. Jon KITN. Like others have said it wasn't that clear that Rhaegar was his father or that he's a Targ at all. I'm not doubting it but show only people might not get how huge of a revelation that is. Oh and he is totally going to marry Sansa and Dany. The scene with Sansa on the ramparts could have been a flashback to Ned and Cat. Did anyone notice baby Jon face looked like it got red around his eyes and cheeks? Maybe it was weird lighting or something. 

Lady Mormont is fantastic, her annoyed with all the bullshit face could strike fear into the Mountain. Hated the way all the Northern Lords kinda just went my bad we're with you now. Looking back to S2 I should have known it was going to be like that but still very disappointing. Really hated the bastard version of the Frey pie we got it was completely unearned with Arya.

Speaking of bastard versions of things, fire and blood speech was shit too. Don't know why all the best speeches aren't included in the show. I'm looking at you Varys and the little birds. And before people say it's adaption, I get that but I feel like so much is lost by omiting these things. It's some of Martin's best prose IMO.

Old town looked great, We light the way. Was waiting for Marwyn but maybe next year and Sarella too. Gilly looked great and that baby is going to be the size of Dunk by time the series ends. 

And now we get the Mad Queen, I'll echo everyone else who said her coronation was shot beautifully, it was somber and the fear underlying it was one of the most subtle things they've done. And it worked, remember that guys. Still don't know what to think of Jaime,  its probably to late to redeem him at this point so him turning on her won't mean as much now.

And on a final note in two episodes with seen the end of four great houses . Umber , Karstark , Bolton and now Tyrrell. So pour one out for Willas and  Garlan.

[gwhh]

We did not see Arya blacksmith friend who also the dead king Roberts, bastard son!!!

[huahaha]

1 minute ago, Oscirus said:

Yea I'm pretty sure it was rape. Why else keep the Septa alive other then to humiliate her?

To torture her? There are many other types of torture besides rape. I assumed the Mountain took off his helmet so she could be terrorized by his face.

[Alapaki]

Cheering as much for Cersei as I was in the scene with Ulenna ought to be cause for introspection, I suppose.  

But I still loved it.

"Oh dear, you aren't dying today."

[Jennifersdc]

1 hour ago, jcin617 said:

Also, Ned wasn't the only one who knew the secret, apparently.  What happened to the handmaiden who was in the room (was there more than one?) 

I think that was probably Wylla. There was one scene in the books with Arya and Beric's squire who was from House Dayne and he claimed Jon Snow was his "milk brother" because he believed Jon Snow's mother was Wylla who was also his wet nurse. Wonder what ever happened to her. And where the hell is Howland Reed? He's the only other one I can think of who knows the truth. Maybe it's time for him to crawl out of his swamp?

[Avaleigh]

23 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

How were the sparrows out numbered with all the people on their side. They all would have been killed. It was have been a slaughter. Margaery was clearly biding her time. Hoping to use Tommen's conversion to get them all out of the mess. She managed to save Olenna at least. I am sure Margaery had a plan to save them all much like Oosha tried against Ramsay. It just didn't work out. Just like with Oosha, you see conniving ugly motivation where it doesn't exist on screen.

I don't think the majority of people would have fought against the Tyrells and Lannisters once they saw they saw what they were up against (I think more people would have fled), but that wasn't the only opportunity Margaery had to cut ties with the High Sparrow. She other options. By siding with him over her family she was only showing that she had no longterm plan to get rid of the High Sparrow and felt that if you can't beat 'em join 'em. By joining them she was putting a royal stamp of approval to the High Sparrow gaining power where more and more people who break the rules of the Faith are going to be treated the way that she and Loras were. 

Tommen's conversion did absolutely nothing to help Loras. Same with Margaery's. All it did was get her out of jail and back into pretty clothes. 

When Tommen was putting on his lion necklace it made me wonder why the High Sparrow never got on Tommen for always wearing his "finery".

[anamika]

45 minutes ago, ulkis said:

I was actually hoping Jon would say thanks, but no thanks, that title belongs to my sister. 

I am actually glad he embraced the position. Frankly, I was getting tired of all the "Jon will refuse and pass it on to his sister' comments everywhere. He is not Jesus Jon who is always supposed to be good and noble. In the books he was ready to accept Winterfell from Stannis and only refused because Stannis asked him to burn the Winterfell Godswoods in return. In ASoS, Jon flat out says that he wants Winterfell, that he's always wanted Winterfell. This was despite knowing that Sansa was still alive. It's only Ghost's red eyes that remind of him of the Weirwoods and his oaths to the NW that makes him refuse Stannis' offer. Now that he is not restricted by either, I am not surprised that he is okay with KITN.

[Oscirus]

2 minutes ago, huahaha said:

To torture her? There are many other types of torture besides rape. I assumed the Mountain took off his helmet so she could be terrorized by his face.

Cersei got stripped and paraded through the streets.  There's only one way Cersei was going to get her revenge.

 

5 minutes ago, that one guy said:

Well, maybe. But based on "The World of Ice and Fire" I believe they hooked up at the Tournament at Harrenhall. Rhaegar was tasked with finding the identity of the mystery knight and killing him by his father the Mad King. Upon discovering it was fiery hot chick Lyanna Stark, Rhaegar, um, disregarded his orders . . . 

If that was the case they would've ran away after Harrenhall.

[AnnaMayWong]

Yay, J♥n (Snow, Stark, Targaryen) ❗  YOU  are still aces♠❗   ?