S08.E11: Invitation Interrupted

[Natalie68]

8 minutes ago, izabella said:

Lol, I don't think any of them are wearing the faces they were born with at this point!  Not after all those fillers, botox, and surgeries to nose, eyes, jaws, whatnot.

Well ya got me there! 

[sasha206]

Oh Carole.  You discovered things in your life are temporary.  And then you want to make permanent an obviously temporary romance.  I'm sure Adam cares for her.  I think she's probably rewriting their love story in that stupid vegan vs. junk food addict book ("vegan cheff falls for...").  But I think her waxing on about only have 5 summers left is generous, but more accurate.  He'll get some success as a result of this show and he'll move on to a younger, hotter version of Carole.

This is why I am sad that Carole didn't just have a daliance with him and not try to create their own love story through a silly book.  She would've been much better off treating her affair with a young man as a fling to make you feel like you still got it, despite your advancing age (not an ageism comment -- I'm 48).

Edited June 17, 2016 by sasha206

[shoegal]

46 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Thanks for this. You just made the entire case on why Lu was so incredibly ridiculous about Carole and Adam last year. This whole conversation now is largely based on the fact that Lu is now doing something that she was horrified to see someone else do last year. This deal is only a "thing" because Lu originally made it a thing. Unless I've missed it, I have yet to see where either Sonja or Ramona is pissed at Lu. They seem pretty OK with it, which isn't the same as the fact that they might also casually mention the obvious hypocrisy.  Carole is understandably disgusted because she got accused of horrible things last year by a person who is now doing the exact same thing and just wants to move on like none of it ever happened. 

A-freaking-men.  LuAnn was a total cow to Carole last season, but she's moved on and it's "over" and Carole should, too!  Ummm, no, that's not the way life works.  It's not 'over' because LuAnn decides she's over it.  Carole tried to politely co-exist with LuAnn by superficial hello's and then steering clear, but LuAnn insists on pushing it. Her first interaction with Carole was loudly proclaiming 'you can't avoid me forever' as Carole walked by....she had plenty of time to reach out to Carole and offer an apology olive branch to smooth things over before the season started, but she didn't, which sets the tone for the interaction we've seen so far.   

[sasha206]

9 minutes ago, shoegal said:

A-freaking-men.  LuAnn was a total cow to Carole last season, but she's moved on and it's "over" and Carole should, too!  Ummm, no, that's not the way life works.  It's not 'over' because LuAnn decides she's over it.  Carole tried to politely co-exist with LuAnn by superficial hello's and then steering clear, but LuAnn insists on pushing it. Her first interaction with Carole was loudly proclaiming 'you can't avoid me forever' as Carole walked by....she had plenty of time to reach out to Carole and offer an apology olive branch to smooth things over before the season started, but she didn't, which sets the tone for the interaction we've seen so far.   

I love Lu, but I do agree with this.  Not to mention, I didn't get the feeling Lu's apologies were really sincere to begin with.   I think Carole's daliance with Adam due to the age gap is ridiculous, but if she really did call her a "pedophile" that's a really nasty dig.  

Now, of course, her nasty digs probably were the result of build up from a lot of Carole's nasty digs of years ago.

Edited June 17, 2016 by sasha206

[ryebread]

Warning:  Muchausen mentioned.

4 hours ago, Duke2801 said:

Even if you don't like Carole (and are tired of her fight with Lu - which I am too), you should read her blog from last week.  It's a really good character description of Lu and why some of them have such a hard time trusting her.  She has a long history of talking out of both sides of her mouth (or just outright lying).  It's pretty interesting.

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season-8/blogs/carole-radziwill/carole-radziwill-the-berkshire

I don't like Carole.  And I opened the link with an open mind since I don't like Lu, either.  Carole momentarily entertainmed me with the vision of Lu with a gin and tonic in one hand while parading men through the townhouse with her left. I don't think that scenario is 100% true, but the image was enjoyable - Lulu likes the drink and she likes the sex. And I envisioned a cigarette with a dangling ash in the same hand that she was indicating into which bedrooms her numerous men in the parade should lie in wait..as she finished them off, one by one....

But then I came to this part in regards to Luann:

Quote

I’m no shrink, but she appears to be suffering from severe cognitive dissonance disorder.

And I stopped reading dead in my tracks.  Carole can suck it. I know Yolanda has the dibs on Munchausen, but Carole actually 'diagnosed' Aviva with The Munch in her blog, long before Yo was diagnosed by that sorry copycat cow, Lisa Rinna. 

Carole can talk all she wants about how she never lies. (Personally, I think that's a lie.) But she does something much worse, imo, by besmirching other people's characters by telling her truth.  Which in Aviva and Lu's cases are unprofessional health diagnoses straight out of her lying mouth.  She didn't like it when Aviva tried to smear her character but Carole is down with doing it to others. 

Carole if you're going to diagnose mental disorders, start with your BFF, Bethenny. That ought to keep you busy for a long time. Dare ya.

[film noire]

3 hours ago, RHJunkie said:

Carole should probably save some of that insight to use in analysis of her own behaviour. I can give another perspective to many of which she said in that blog which only leaves me with the impression that Carole is one audacious and self-righteous person.

(snip only for space)

What a great deconstruction of Carole smuggery & cluelessness. Only one thing to add; part of Bethenny's "apology" (the apology Carole insists was a shining example of 'fessing up and making amends) was that the behavior was beneath Bethenny, and she was sorry for that. So Bethenny ended up apologizing to....herself.  Yeah, that's some mighty fine self awareness in action, Carole.

[RHJunkie]

22 minutes ago, ElDosEquis said:

It's a real talent to be able to do it effectively - and to be able to stop at a certain point. Sometimes sticking around and trying to score extra points is just wasting time.

Self-restraint is not an easy skill to acquire so I agree with you that it is an actual talent. It's a talent that clearly isn't always used with great purpose though, lol.  Luann threw a lot of shade Bethenny's way but it wasn't just her sandwiched insults that struck me. I think back to the way Bethenny handled Sonja at her office and the way she went off on her and then literally dismissed her out of the room before Sonja could really rebuttal her parting sentiments. Luann was the Bethenny in this situation but without the same obvious aggression. Luann went to that meet up with the intention of forcing her way onto that trip and as soon as it she found her way to insert her self-invite, she got up and left. Another thing that struck me is that Luann left Bethenny with the bill for the drinks. I remember seasons back where Bethenny invited the girls for surfing lessons and 'Countess Luann' thought it was poor etiquette to invite people to an event or activity and expect your guests to pay for it (and not communicate that your guests are expected to pay for it beforehand). Years later and Luann gets invited to drinks from Bethenney to discuss Mexico and Luann made sure to hightail it out of there so Bethenny ends up paying for her 'guest's' drink, lol.

I will say that Luann seemed uncaring with the way she handled Bethenny's admission about her extensive bleeding. I think she initially engaged out of politeness but quickly moved the discussion away so that it didn't become the focal point. But she didn't really seem fazed or really concerned about Bethenny had just shared with her. I also found it interesting that Bethenny chose to share this concern on camera with Luann of all people. Or maybe she discussed it with Carole and others but it made better production material to include the admission with Luann.

[WireWrap]

1 hour ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Thanks for this. You just made the entire case on why Lu was so incredibly ridiculous about Carole and Adam last year. This whole conversation now is largely based on the fact that Lu is now doing something that she was horrified to see someone else do last year. This deal is only a "thing" because Lu originally made it a thing. Unless I've missed it, I have yet to see where either Sonja or Ramona is pissed at Lu. They seem pretty OK with it, which isn't the same as the fact that they might also casually mention the obvious hypocrisy.  Carole is understandably disgusted because she got accused of horrible things last year by a person who is now doing the exact same thing and just wants to move on like none of it ever happened. 

Not exactly. Ramona was upset that Luann didn't get her permission to date Tom before they went out. She was pretty ticked off about it in fact. Of course, Ramona didn't seek Sonja's permission to date him first either! LOL

44 minutes ago, RHJunkie said:

Well keeping in mind the context of the show is interaction. I understand needing time to have a real conversation with Luann. I also understand needing time to move past the cordial stage. But it's very clear that Carole began the season with the intention of phasing Luann out of her presence. She has repeatedly taken issue with Luann being invited places and has threatened to not show up if Luann is around. This is completely contradicting to the point of the show and for this, it doesn't seem at all sensible that she would return given the nature of their job. If Luann had simply cowered to Carole's wishes and if the likes of Dorinda and Ramona had bowed to Carole's desires, would Carole and Luann have even reached a place of some kind of resolution? Again, I understand needing time to address her issues with Luann face to face and be open to any kind of honest resolution but Carole returned to the show with a very extreme line in the sand against Luann and I think had other factors not worked against her, I'm not sure she would have ended the season with 'soft-boiled feelings' for Luann, lol.

Luann was still badmouthing Carole up to the week before filming began, so there was no cooling of period for her, Carole, to calm down and move past it. Luann did not apologized to Carole at all before filming began and I don't think Luann's "we both said mean things" is/was/should be counted as an apology by any stretch of the imagination. Luann's only real apology, and it was still a generalized apology, was at Ramona's Christmas party and it looks like that was just enough to get the ball rolling on them both moving past "Adamgate" down the road.

[RHJunkie]

3 minutes ago, film noire said:

What a great deconstruction of Carole smuggery & cluelessness. Only one thing to add; part of Bethenny's "apology" (the apology Carole insists was a shining example of 'fessing up and making amends) was that the behavior was beneath Bethenny, and she was sorry for that. So Bethenny ended up apologizing to....herself.  Yeah, that's some mighty fine self awareness in action, Carole.

Haha, great point! Bethenny's apology was akin to Luann saying 'I'm sorry I called you a pedofile'. It came across as apologies you offer because it's appropriate to apologize and nothing more.

[autumnh]

All I could think of while watching is episode was....the producers KNEW that they had this footage and maybe they knew the proverbial other shoe was about to drop and they got their editors back in and re-edited that episode since really? The timing could not be more perfect or on point.

Edited June 17, 2016 by autumnh

[RHJunkie]

55 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

When did the pirate get married?  This seems to be a new development.

That's how Carole framed it in her blog. She talked about Turks and said "she did bring home a married man". She did the same thing in St. Barts". The way that's framed suggests that the St. Barts guy (who was the pirate), was married. Maybe her intention was to allow that insinuation. Or maybe the writer used a poor choice of words/structure to convey her thought.

[pbutler111]

20 hours ago, HumblePi said:

http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/bethenny-frankel-mystery-surgery-95283

If In Touch Weekly reported that I was married to my husband, I'd scramble to check the paperwork.  

[lcarolynl]

I quit watching this show about 17 minutes into the first Berkeshires episode and when I come back her to read the comments from you brave souls that have stuck with this train wreck, I gotta say I'm happy to stay away.

Now if I could only stay away fromt this board!!

[HumblePi]

21 hours ago, pbutler111 said:

With Jules's divorce, won't this be the first/only "Housewives" group to include no actual wives?

Maybe the franchise name can be re-branded to 'The Ex-Real Housewives of New York'? Considering the fact that the only one actually taking care of underage children is Jules (Carole and Adam don't quite count) then the term 'housewives' doesn't make much sense anymore. Of course none of them even when married could be considered to be much of a housewife. House managers maybe. Okay, okay....'The Ex-Not-Real-Non-Housewives of New York'.  Nah, too long. How about 'The Bored Older Single Rich Women of NY' ?  I'll shoot Andy Cohen a memo right now. Maybe the title of the show should be what my husband says when he sees me watching this train wreck "Are you watching Those Rich Bitches of NY" again?

Edited June 17, 2016 by HumblePi

[RHJunkie]

15 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Luann was still badmouthing Carole up to the week before filming began, so there was no cooling of period for her, Carole, to calm down and move past it. Luann did not apologized to Carole at all before filming began and I don't think Luann's "we both said mean things" is/was/should be counted as an apology by any stretch of the imagination. Luann's only real apology, and it was still a generalized apology, was at Ramona's Christmas party and it looks like that was just enough to get the ball rolling on them both moving past "Adamgate" down the road.

I don't think Luann offered an apology before the way she claimed either. Maybe she said something similar to an apology to the media and she thinks that counts but I do believe Carole when she said that Luann didn't contact her with an apology. However, to go back to my point that you were responding to - what Luann was doing up until a week before filming is irrelevant because that doesn't explain why someone who was so angry at someone that they decided that they didn't even want to be around them would decide to return to a job where their work obligation required them to be around that same person. I'm not refuting Carole's feelings of hurt and anger. I'm not criticizing her need for time and space to sort through her feelings for Luann. I am criticizing Carole for disrupting the flow of the show by raising complaints and ultimatums about where she wanted to go, how long she'd stay and who could be there in order to have her presence there. Someone here mentioned some posts back that Carole was cordial to Luann as if that's some accomplishment. Carole was not being a team player akin to what her role on the show was. I get if Carole ever bothered to arrange her own events on the show and I get if she didn't invite Luann but to ask about Luann's presence at every other person's gathering is annoying and overstepping on her part. If she really didn't want to see Luann and wasn't smart enough to decline a job where she was required to interact with her, she should simply decide whether she wanted to go to an event and risk running into Luann, not put the host in an awkward situation by asking them to reveal any portion of their guest list. It's not the host's job to alter their guest list to the benefit of one person. It's the guest's decision to either show up or not for whatever reasons they may have.

[ryebread]

1 hour ago, Almost 3000 said:

Did anyone else hear Vicki's voice screeching about "bleeding out my ass"?

I am trying to remain ladylike and composed as I sit, waiting at the Dr.'s office.  But this post, in the midst of all the Carole and Luann discourse, caught me off guard and I laughed out loud.  It relieved some tension or something.  You guys piss me off and make me laugh. So hard.  At the weirdest things.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV Post on the episode!

Two Real Housewives Of New York City Deal With Cheating Partners In Very Different Ways

One marches blindly forward toward unholy matrimony, while the other takes action in real time.

[halkatla]

1 hour ago, Natalie68 said:

But isn't doing the 1st statement in bold show you to be the 2nd statement in bold?  Age shaming as well as shaming someone for how they look when they cannot help it seems just petty and immature.  I have no issue with snarking on style since that can be changed.  Shaming the face/body they were born with seems very schoolyard and simply mean.  Everyone is beautiful to someone.

I´m not bothered enough to even think about it. I would say stuff about her being immature and bitchy no matter how old/young she was, in her case it´s just too ironic not to comment on, and the way she behaves with her young man is just fodder for my bitchy jokes. Ramona is not wise, she has always been that way and it was dealt with years ago, in Carole´s case, some of us regular viewers are only now seeing how she really is so this is the point we will discuss it. I get disgusted by so many things these women (not all of them) do and say, and if it makes me bitchy and immature to comment on it on these threads then so be it. I think much worse things about some of them than the stuff I actually write. I don´t even see making fun of Carole for dating a younger man as age shaming, I mean her boyfriend likes her so more power to her on that front, I don´t have a problem with it at all, but I just don´t like her as a person on tv anymore so I enjoy making fun of her for various things but I don´t think I make fun of her looks, I comment on those without any thought of shaming her or anything. I see how she looked kind of pretty at first but now she looks really weird and a lot older than her natural age - it´s a common problem for RHW I believe.

 

I´m not sure if I know what age-shaming actually is or how one does it, so maybe I´ve been doing it a lot without realizing. If so then I´m totally against myself for it :)

Edited June 17, 2016 by halkatla

[archer1267]

I feel like I need to watch this episode again for it to sink in. I feel like several cast members took a 180-turn in behavior, based on what we've seen previously.

• Life-of-the-party Sonja, the straw that stirs the drink, says "I'll stop drinking," as if it's no bigger a deal than not eating a cheeseburger on Good Friday
• Previously nice guy Michael, who previously stayed in the background and supported his wife, showed himself to be a douche
• LuAnn, who previously kept her cards close to the vest, babbling endlessly about a guy who doesn't seem to be monogamous
  • LuAnn again, once the doyenne of etiquette, inviting herself to Mexico and looking plain desperate in the process
• Carole, who was always about keeping things cool and noncommittal, losing her shit over a cat and realizing that she wants permanence in her life
• Ramona making sense (with her "Carole needs to get over it" observation)
• John and Dorinda having dinner and NOT getting into a fight

[HumblePi]

I have to say that I treasure Ramona for nothing else other than the pearls of wisdom she drops once in a while, like this one...

Edited June 17, 2016 by HumblePi

[Almost 3000]

1 hour ago, BananaRama said:

I wanted to see Luann's hair with the extensions too.  I think her current hairstyle ages her. 

LuAnn had extensions for one of her videos and it wasn't her best look. This season Lu's hair seems to have the lost bouncy lift and as you age you need some fluffiness because flattened out hair can look thin and that's aging. Usually I like Lu and Lisar's hair. Posters have said they think B's hair is more modern than Lu's but boy B's has looked really awful on her several times because it gets flat and limp.

[pbutler111]

1 hour ago, ryebread said:

Warning:  Muchausen mentioned.

I don't like Carole.  And I opened the link with an open mind since I don't like Lu, either.  Carole momentarily entertainmed me with the vision of Lu with a gin and tonic in one hand while parading men through the townhouse with her left. I don't think that scenario is 100% true, but the image was enjoyable - Lulu likes the drink and she likes the sex. And I envisioned a cigarette with a dangling ash in the same hand that she was indicating into which bedrooms her numerous men in the parade should lie in wait..as she finished them off, one by one....

But then I came to this part in regards to Luann:

And I stopped reading dead in my tracks.  Carole can suck it. I know Yolanda has the dibs on Munchausen, but Carole actually 'diagnosed' Aviva with The Munch in her blog, long before Yo was diagnosed by that sorry copycat cow, Lisa Rinna. 

Carole can talk all she wants about how she never lies. (Personally, I think that's a lie.) But she does something much worse, imo, by besmirching other people's characters by telling her truth.  Which in Aviva and Lu's cases are unprofessional health diagnoses straight out of her lying mouth.  She didn't like it when Aviva tried to smear her character but Carole is down with doing it to others. 

Carole if you're going to diagnose mental disorders, start with your BFF, Bethenny. That ought to keep you busy for a long time. Dare ya.

I think the "I'm no shrink" part makes it pretty clear she's not diagnosing anyone, but rather giving her opinion of their behavior.

[hoodooznoodooz]

Wow. Bethenny had a kind moment: (to Jules) How is your father?

And Ramona had a kind moment: (to Lu after Lu told her that Tom is her soulmate or something) That's sweet.  

I'm shocked.  

[tumamita]

3 hours ago, RHJunkie said:

Are the mics really that good that a really hushed conversation can be picked up so clearly on camera? How did Michael not hear what was being said? And if he did, he did a good job of keeping his attention elsewhere and showing no signs that he was privy to what was being said about him. The same thing happened when Bethenny was discussing Jules' body with someone else at the table and Jules was sitting right next to her but not once did we see Jules show any acknowledgment of the conversation.

I have to admit, there's times when my hubs pisses me off and we might be meeting up with friends and I might tell my girlfriend about it while he is on the other side of the table. I do this sometimes so he can maaaybe hear why I'm irritated so if you want to be discreet, you will be. She wanted him to hear how irritated she was. She's clearly sick & tired of being sick & tired.

I really like Jules. I hope her recent marital troubles won't keep her off the next season. She's a nice additional in my opinion. 

[Yours Truly]

1 hour ago, shoegal said:

A-freaking-men.  LuAnn was a total cow to Carole last season, but she's moved on and it's "over" and Carole should, too!  Ummm, no, that's not the way life works.  It's not 'over' because LuAnn decides she's over it.  Carole tried to politely co-exist with LuAnn by superficial hello's and then steering clear, but LuAnn insists on pushing it. Her first interaction with Carole was loudly proclaiming 'you can't avoid me forever' as Carole walked by....she had plenty of time to reach out to Carole and offer an apology olive branch to smooth things over before the season started, but she didn't, which sets the tone for the interaction we've seen so far.   

I think it should be over cause we the viewers want it to be over and well it's really annoying watching reruns. Especially when they show up in the form of a brand new episode.

Simple logic.

Oh and Carole's been an asshole since her first season and yet Lu still managed to befriend her briefly between that season and now even though, through Carole's own admission, she reacted to Lu negatively before allowing herself to actually get to know her. So you see they both have had their moments of not being the best of people to each other. In one situation an attempt to move forward was made by Lu in the other we have Carole clutching desperately to her ill will and polluting everything else that goes on with it. 

Justified or not, when you allow you own feelings to taint and poison other people's overall interactions and environment (not just Lu's but the other housewives awkwardly caught in the middle) then you've taken you're self waayyyy too seriously and have decided that all that matters is you and only you. Being mad at Lu doesn't give Carole (and Beth) the right to pretty much ruin the vibe, flow and energy of all things HW's related and what the others must endure doing filming. At the very least Carole is yet again giving zero fucks about how her middle school stance is doing with regards to the other wives, filming schedules obligations and interactions with each other. It's like they are just holding production hostage and it's playing out all over my TV all because Buck Gums wants to pout... oh eeeerrr, scowl... How long is the viewing audience supposed to sit back and watch Carole stew AND be okay with that?

[RHJunkie]

2 minutes ago, pbutler111 said:

I think the "I'm no shrink" part makes it pretty clear she's not diagnosing anyone, but rather giving her opinion of their behavior.

The admission that she isn't a shrink should already suggest that she should not be attaching medical diagnosis to anyone's behaviour. She can speak to the behaviour without putting a label on it. It's a dangerous slope to overlook what Carole did by saying 'she's not really diagnosing anyone'. She is using a medical term that is related to a person that is considered psychotic and suffers from hallucinations that make it indiscernible between what they think and what is reality.If you noticed someone who experienced constant chills, nosebleeds and is always tired, would you tell them 'I'm no doctor but I think you might have leukemia?'. People who do not have the proper knowledge of medicine or psychology should not be attaching any kind of terminology to the behaviours they see. Simply address the behaviours. And by Carole's personal 'diagnosis', if she thinks that Luann is suffering cognitive dissonance disorder then that would mean that Luann is not in control of her psychological faculties and Carole is a kind of an asshole for constantly talking shit about someone who, in her opinion, is psychotic.

[HunterHunted]

12 minutes ago, RHJunkie said:

I don't think Luann offered an apology before the way she claimed either. Maybe she said something similar to an apology to the media and she thinks that counts but I do believe Carole when she said that Luann didn't contact her with an apology. However, to go back to my point that you were responding to - what Luann was doing up until a week before filming is irrelevant because that doesn't explain why someone who was so angry at someone that they decided that they didn't even want to be around them would decide to return to a job where their work obligation required them to be around that same person. I'm not refuting Carole's feelings of hurt and anger. I'm not criticizing her need for time and space to sort through her feelings for Luann. I am criticizing Carole for disrupting the flow of the show by raising complaints and ultimatums about where she wanted to go, how long she'd stay and who could be there in order to have her presence there. Someone here mentioned some posts back that Carole was cordial to Luann as if that's some accomplishment. Carole was not being a team player akin to what her role on the show was. I get if Carole ever bothered to arrange her own events on the show and I get if she didn't invite Luann but to ask about Luann's presence at every other person's gathering is annoying and overstepping on her part. If she really didn't want to see Luann and wasn't smart enough to decline a job where she was required to interact with her, she should simply decide whether she wanted to go to an event and risk running into Luann, not put the host in an awkward situation by asking them to reveal any portion of their guest list. It's not the host's job to alter their guest list to the benefit of one person. It's the guest's decision to either show up or not for whatever reasons they may have.

I agree. I used to really like Carole, but she's being a bit of a brat by insisting that LuAnn be excluded from events. In prior seasons this wasn't such a problem because there were enough women there that they could each hang out in their little groups. Carole, Heather, and Kristen could chill away from LuAnn or Aviva. But this season Carole is just out at sea clinging to Bethenny like a buoy. She's friendly enough with Dorinda, but the rest of these women are not her friends. They are coworkers that she gets along with. That being said, Carole should just swallow it and be civil. She can talk superficially around LuAnn, but never let LuAnn know any of the intimate details of her life because LuAnn can't be trusted.

LuAnn has never been a particularly sensitive or introspective person. If she were, she would have realized that a brief sit down with Carole where she, LuAnn, offered an apology like the one at Ramona's party. I also suspect LuAnn didn't think the pedophile name calling was that bad not because it was untrue, but because she and her family have a history of saying really offensive things and not understanding that there is shit you don't say. There was Victoria's N word video. LuAnn's war whooping and jokes about scalping people. Then was the time she let it slip that the Count wouldn't be happy with her dating Jacques because Jacques is Jewish. I remember thinking how could she have been married so long to someone who appears to anti-Semitic. I suspect that there was a lot of offensive shit bandied about in that household.

On the other hand, I'm fine with Sonja being disinvited to the trip. Obviously not for the bullshit reason given by the other women. Their faux concern about her drinking is bullshit. I just think Sonja should suffer in the cold for a little while over her Tipsy Girl idiocy. She had to have known that Bethenny would be pissed and refuse to film with her. And considering the power that Bethenny wields, Sonja should have figured out that she put herself in a position to have all of her film left on the editing room floor like what happened to Heather last season. Sonja's Housewives salary is or was about $500,000. This Tipsy Girl stupidity is probably not paying her more than $100,000 if that. She fucked her real job for her side gig. I think this is a lesson she needs to learn. But after the Mexico trip, I'm not going to be happy with them excluding her anymore.

[Yours Truly]

1 hour ago, RHJunkie said:

That's how Carole framed it in her blog. She talked about Turks and said "she did bring home a married man". She did the same thing in St. Barts". The way that's framed suggests that the St. Barts guy (who was the pirate), was married. Maybe her intention was to allow that insinuation. Or maybe the writer used a poor choice of words/structure to convey her thought.

That's Carole's thing. She insinuates.. Somehow she finds that honest.

[Mrs peel]

Quote

But then I came to this part in regards to Luann:

  Quote

I’m no shrink, but she appears to be suffering from severe cognitive dissonance disorder.

And I stopped reading dead in my tracks.  Carole can suck it. I know Yolanda has the dibs on Munchausen, but Carole actually 'diagnosed' Aviva with The Munch in her blog, long before Yo was diagnosed by that sorry copycat cow, Lisa Rinna. 

Wow!  It would have been nice if she bothered to read the definition.  I thought the beef was that LuAnn was faking the happily married, etiquette-loving, classy Countess, but was an open marriage sex fiend in secret.  They never said LuAnn actually believed the former.  And that's what cognitive dissonance is all about (at least that's what Wikipedia says!).

"In psychology, cognitive dissonance is the mental stress or discomfort experienced by an individual who holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values at the same time, performs an action that is contradictory to one or more beliefs, ideas, or values, or is confronted by new information that conflicts with existing beliefs, ideas, or values."

And, of course she has to say it's "severe."  It ain't dissonance if you're just lying about one of the sets of beliefs, ideas or values..... 

[Kathcart]

Quote

But seeing her bake with her grandson was pretty cute.

<SNORT!!!>

There's been a lot of talk about how Jules needs to take Michael to the cleaners. ... somewhere out there John is preparing some "hilarious" inappropriate remarks on that subject.

So Sonja's drinking has become OOC and her dear dear friends must step in, but Dorinda continues to get mortifyingly bombed in nearly every episode and that's perfectly all right? I don't get it.

[RHJunkie]

15 minutes ago, tumamita said:

I have to admit, there's times when my hubs pisses me off and we might be meeting up with friends and I might tell my girlfriend about it while he is on the other side of the table. I do this sometimes so he can maaaybe hear why I'm irritated so if you want to be discreet, you will be. She wanted him to hear how irritated she was. She's clearly sick & tired of being sick & tired.

I really like Jules. I hope her recent marital troubles won't keep her off the next season. She's a nice additional in my opinion. 

LOL, does it work? If so, I'll add that to the bag of potential arsenal :P

I've been indifferent to her. In the beginning she had her moments here and there but she did nothing that was outrageously offensive and she doesn't seem like the confrontational or aggressive type (which makes me wonder if she knew what the show was all about when she signed up). Up until this point, they've given her the spoiled princess edit which I don't find that offensive and truthfully so little has gone on that I often forget that she's a regular HW. I don't really consider her part of the group because she's so out of the fray with all of the drama (which is also easy to do when you're the new girl). From the previews, it seems that she might get some spunk to her when addressing her issues and suspicions about her husband and if that's the case, I may just put her in the 'like' column.

[Yours Truly]

54 minutes ago, RHJunkie said:

I don't think Luann offered an apology before the way she claimed either. Maybe she said something similar to an apology to the media and she thinks that counts but I do believe Carole when she said that Luann didn't contact her with an apology. However, to go back to my point that you were responding to - what Luann was doing up until a week before filming is irrelevant because that doesn't explain why someone who was so angry at someone that they decided that they didn't even want to be around them would decide to return to a job where their work obligation required them to be around that same person. I'm not refuting Carole's feelings of hurt and anger. I'm not criticizing her need for time and space to sort through her feelings for Luann. I am criticizing Carole for disrupting the flow of the show by raising complaints and ultimatums about where she wanted to go, how long she'd stay and who could be there in order to have her presence there. Someone here mentioned some posts back that Carole was cordial to Luann as if that's some accomplishment. Carole was not being a team player akin to what her role on the show was. I get if Carole ever bothered to arrange her own events on the show and I get if she didn't invite Luann but to ask about Luann's presence at every other person's gathering is annoying and overstepping on her part. If she really didn't want to see Luann and wasn't smart enough to decline a job where she was required to interact with her, she should simply decide whether she wanted to go to an event and risk running into Luann, not put the host in an awkward situation by asking them to reveal any portion of their guest list. It's not the host's job to alter their guest list to the benefit of one person. It's the guest's decision to either show up or not for whatever reasons they may have.

See this is what I don't get either! It's that Carole is being so arrogant that it's affecting the flow of the show. Bitchass, go ahead and be butt hurt I don't give a rats ass but stop trying to hold every event hostage with your belly aching over Lu being present. Same goes for the Skinny Bitch and Sonja. It makes absolutely no sense and it's not like she's got some special bond with any of the other housewives beside Beth that her presence is absolutely necessary. Not saying Lu does but at the very least she's been co-workers with a couple of them for years so it would make more sense for her to be around. Carole has her relationships with the other women but in all of the seasons she's more of a background player. Always has been so it seems sooooo very off kilter that Carole is throwing around this "I'm not going if Lu is" nonsense considering she doesn't bring much of anything to any even besides...... well nothing actually. Think back at all the events, trips, parties and pick out anything that was that much better because Carole contributed something of substance or interest? But she's the one calling the shots about who gets to be at activities, gatherings and the such. Hell the one thing she did host over all the seasons she's been on mind you she was barely able to look interested even then.  "Don't invite a fun person, when you can have me present. Tell ya what I'll even try to look interested and fight as hell not to fall asleep......Zzzzzzzzzz"

[Mrs peel]

19 hours ago, ichbin said:

I'm not a Carole fan, but in this case I'm going to defend her.  I'm pretty sure her pronunciation is a regional thing..  It's like the "t" in that position gets substituted with a softer sound formed further back instead of the tip of the tongue.

Sorry, but no.  I grew up not 15 minutes from Carole (Rockland County NY), around the same time too (I'm a bit older).  I have 2 cats, I managed to include the 't" sound each and every time I say "kitten.".  And I'm also part-Italian American, so it's not that either.

[ryebread]

20 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Justified or not, when you allow you own feelings to taint and poison other people's overall interactions and environment (not just Lu's but the other housewives awkwardly caught in the middle) then you've taken you're self waayyyy too seriously and have decided that all that matters is you and only you. Being mad at Lu doesn't give Carole (and Beth) the right to pretty much ruin the vibe, flow and energy of all things HW's related and what the others must endure doing filming. At the very least Carole is yet again giving zero fucks about how her middle school stance is doing with regards to the other wives, filming schedules obligations and interactions with each other. It's like they are just holding production hostage and it's playing out all over my TV all because Buck Gums wants to pout... oh eeeerrr, scowl... How long is the viewing audience supposed to sit back and watch Carole stew AND be okay with that?

This. 

What I wanna know is, between Carole and Lu, who started it?  I mean, way back when Carole first came on board, who flung the first coffee cup of dog poo?  I don't remember much about when they were in London, was it then?  In my head, the first time I saw an 'attack', it was Carole talking about how she heard male voices and one of them was Lu's.  Maybe that's why Lu went in on her for Adam.  She was still mad about that?  Where did this all begin?

[RHJunkie]

23 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

I agree. I used to really like Carole, but she's being a bit of a brat by insisting that LuAnn be excluded from events. In prior seasons this wasn't such a problem because there were enough women there that they could each hang out in their little groups. Carole, Heather, and Kristen could chill away from LuAnn or Aviva. But this season Carole is just out at sea clinging to Bethenny like a buoy. She's friendly enough with Dorinda, but the rest of these women are not her friends. They are coworkers that she gets along with. That being said, Carole should just swallow it and be civil. She can talk superficially around LuAnn, but never let LuAnn know any of the intimate details of her life because LuAnn can't be trusted.

LuAnn has never been a particularly sensitive or introspective person. If she were, she would have realized that a brief sit down with Carole where she, LuAnn, offered an apology like the one at Ramona's party. I also suspect LuAnn didn't think the pedophile name calling was that bad not because it was untrue, but because she and her family have a history of saying really offensive things and not understanding that there is shit you don't say. There was Victoria's N word video. LuAnn's war whooping and jokes about scalping people. Then was the time she let it slip that the Count wouldn't be happy with her dating Jacques because Jacques is Jewish. I remember thinking how could she have been married so long to someone who appears to anti-Semitic. I suspect that there was a lot of offensive shit bandied about in that household.

On the other hand, I'm fine with Sonja being disinvited to the trip. Obviously not for the bullshit reason given by the other women. Their faux concern about her drinking is bullshit. I just think Sonja should suffer in the cold for a little while over her Tipsy Girl idiocy. She had to have known that Bethenny would be pissed and refuse to film with her. And considering the power that Bethenny wields, Sonja should have figured out that she put herself in a position to have all of her film left on the editing room floor like what happened to Heather last season. Sonja's Housewives salary is or was about $500,000. This Tipsy Girl stupidity is probably not paying her more than $100,000 if that. She fucked her real job for her side gig. I think this is a lesson she needs to learn. But after the Mexico trip, I'm not going to be happy with them excluding her anymore.

I also take no issue with Sonja not being invited but not for the matter of freezing her out. But because she did something that Bethenny has taken great offense to. There are so many events hosted by a number of the girls throughout the season, it's forgivable for the host if for their one event they don't want the one person they are personally offended by be in attendance. Though it would be interesting if Sonja really isn't included just because the Mexico trip will be the main trip of the season. Someone had mentioned that they think Bethenny is refusing to be around Sonja because she doesn't want to address the Tipsy Girl thing anymore and give it any life or promotion but if that's the case (which I understand Bethenny not wanting to do) is she more concerned that Sonja will try to push the topic or is she concerned that the other women will also interject and it may grow into the big conversation that she doesn't want it to.

Edited June 17, 2016 by RHJunkie

[sistermagpie]

3 minutes ago, Mrs peel said:

Sorry, but no.  I grew up not 15 minutes from Carole (Rockland County NY), around the same time too (I'm a bit older).  I have 2 cats, I managed to include the 't" sound each and every time I say "kitten.".  And I'm also part-Italian American, so it's not that either.

I grew up outside of NY with lots of Italian Americans...some pronounced it that way and some didn't. It's a familiar thing to me--something I maybe once in a blue moon have done. 

[motorcitymom65]

20 minutes ago, RHJunkie said:

The admission that she isn't a shrink should already suggest that she should not be attaching medical diagnosis to anyone's behaviour. She can speak to the behaviour without putting a label on it. It's a dangerous slope to overlook what Carole did by saying 'she's not really diagnosing anyone'. She is using a medical term that is related to a person that is considered psychotic and suffers from hallucinations that make it indiscernible between what they think and what is reality.If you noticed someone who experienced constant chills, nosebleeds and is always tired, would you tell them 'I'm no doctor but I think you might have leukemia?'. People who do not have the proper knowledge of medicine or psychology should not be attaching any kind of terminology to the behaviours they see. Simply address the behaviours. And by Carole's personal 'diagnosis', if she thinks that Luann is suffering cognitive dissonance disorder then that would mean that Luann is not in control of her psychological faculties and Carole is a kind of an asshole for constantly talking shit about someone who, in her opinion, is psychotic.

And because it simply cannot be said enough - at any time and in any language - once someone calls you a Pedophile, all bets are off. Let the diagnosis and name calling proceed at every available opportunity. Do it in Tweets, on billboards, put it in fortune cookies. Go tell it on the mountain if you need to. Whisper it in Lu's ear whenever you have the opportunity. Whisper it in her fake boyfriend's ear. Anything and everything you know, think, believe, or just pull out of your ass if fair game at this point. 

[motorcitymom65]

21 minutes ago, Mrs peel said:

Wow!  It would have been nice if she bothered to read the definition.  I thought the beef was that LuAnn was faking the happily married, etiquette-loving, classy Countess, but was an open marriage sex fiend in secret.  They never said LuAnn actually believed the former.  And that's what cognitive dissonance is all about (at least that's what Wikipedia says!).

"In psychology, cognitive dissonance is the mental stress or discomfort experienced by an individual who holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values at the same time, performs an action that is contradictory to one or more beliefs, ideas, or values, or is confronted by new information that conflicts with existing beliefs, ideas, or values."

And, of course she has to say it's "severe."  It ain't dissonance if you're just lying about one of the sets of beliefs, ideas or values..... 

Wow, this definition nails Lu. Was there a picture of her beside the definition? 

[ryebread]

4 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

And because it simply cannot be said enough - at any time and in any language - once someone calls you a Pedophile, all bets are off. Let the diagnosis and name calling proceed at every available opportunity. Do it in Tweets, on billboards, put it in fortune cookies. Go tell it on the mountain if you need to. Whisper it in Lu's ear whenever you have the opportunity. Whisper it in her fake boyfriend's ear. Anything and everything you know, think, believe, or just pull out of your ass if fair game at this point. 

Yes, this is true.  And it's a shame it's come to that.  Both are just swinging so damn low. It's gross. I remember when the internet went cah-razzy mad at Tamra for calling Alexis "Jesus Jugs".  How offensive!  Now it be like, "Is that all you've got?"  Now whore, slut, pedophile are thrown around by these 'ladies' like they're asking for extra sugar in their teacups. 

Is this the world we live in?  (Remember when eating the bow off a cake was the height of bad manners?)

[Yours Truly]

26 minutes ago, RHJunkie said:

How brave of you to respond to me and then put me on ignore. Glad you got a good laugh. But before you go, I hope you appreciate the virtual standing ovation I'm giving you for your courage to tuck tail and run. I wont put you on ignore though because I'm okay with reading challenging and differing opinions to my own. Have a wonderful day :)

Seriously! Good Grief.

Oh and I must say that I have to mention the continued mix feelings I have about loving everything you've posted here in NY considering how you drove me crazy over in the Atlanta thread. ;-)

As well as point out that me and Umbelina have shared some really strong agreeing viewpoints over in the BH thread only to have strongly conflicting opinions here in NY.

It's a bit maddening but thrilling all the same and I have to say what's even better is that we can still manage to rise above certain indulgences when we've come to a head in any particular thread. So thanks for that and Cheers! :-)

[Lisin]

OK everybody, it's your page 8 reminder to please be civil to one another! Don't make us have to hide posts! Agree to disagree, or even put each other on ignore! This is supposed to be fun! 

[Yours Truly]

14 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

And because it simply cannot be said enough - at any time and in any language - once someone calls you a Pedophile, all bets are off. Let the diagnosis and name calling proceed at every available opportunity. Do it in Tweets, on billboards, put it in fortune cookies. Go tell it on the mountain if you need to. Whisper it in Lu's ear whenever you have the opportunity. Whisper it in her fake boyfriend's ear. Anything and everything you know, think, believe, or just pull out of your ass if fair game at this point. 

So in other words there just shouldn't be any end to this ridiculous display Carole keeps offending the viewers with? Scratching my head with that one.

[WireWrap]

1 hour ago, RHJunkie said:

I don't think Luann offered an apology before the way she claimed either. Maybe she said something similar to an apology to the media and she thinks that counts but I do believe Carole when she said that Luann didn't contact her with an apology. However, to go back to my point that you were responding to - what Luann was doing up until a week before filming is irrelevant because that doesn't explain why someone who was so angry at someone that they decided that they didn't even want to be around them would decide to return to a job where their work obligation required them to be around that same person. I'm not refuting Carole's feelings of hurt and anger. I'm not criticizing her need for time and space to sort through her feelings for Luann. I am criticizing Carole for disrupting the flow of the show by raising complaints and ultimatums about where she wanted to go, how long she'd stay and who could be there in order to have her presence there. Someone here mentioned some posts back that Carole was cordial to Luann as if that's some accomplishment. Carole was not being a team player akin to what her role on the show was. I get if Carole ever bothered to arrange her own events on the show and I get if she didn't invite Luann but to ask about Luann's presence at every other person's gathering is annoying and overstepping on her part. If she really didn't want to see Luann and wasn't smart enough to decline a job where she was required to interact with her, she should simply decide whether she wanted to go to an event and risk running into Luann, not put the host in an awkward situation by asking them to reveal any portion of their guest list. It's not the host's job to alter their guest list to the benefit of one person. It's the guest's decision to either show up or not for whatever reasons they may have.

I think the "I won't go if she goes" is part and parcel to the HW game but it doesn't mean they actually won't go as we all heard Dorinda say Luann was coming to her party and Carole did show up. I think it is more bluster on Carole's part than actually trying to freeze Luann out, Carole just doesn't have that kind of power and she knows full well that Bethenny isn't going to go at Luann the way she is Sonja.

1 hour ago, HumblePi said:

I have to say that I treasure Ramona for nothing else other than the pearls of wisdom she drops once in a while, like this one...

You mean like Ramona got over Luann not asking permission to date Tom? Someone that that Ramona only went on a few dates with, admits that there were no sparks between them and someone that she didn't seek permission to date from Sonja? LOL

[ryebread]

2 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Seriously! Good Grief.

Oh and I must say that I have to mention the continued mix feelings I have about loving everything you've posted here in NY considering how you drove me crazy over in the Atlanta thread. ;-)

As well as point out that me and Umbelina have shared some really strong agreeing viewpoints over in the BH thread only to have strongly conflicting opinions here in NY.

It's a bit maddening but thrilling all the same and I have to say what's even better is that we can still manage to rise above certain indulgences when we've come to a head in any particular thread. So thanks for that and Cheers! :-)

Hey.  You're leaving me out.  Remember the really good (and in retrospect, tedious) go rounds you and I used to have in the Below Deck forum about that sloppy heffa, Kate?  After that, I had you on ignore when Beverly Hills started.  But I could still see your posts if someone quoted you and I realized that we saw eye-to-eye about most of them so I took you off my "LIST".  Hahaha.  You're welcome.

By the way, Below Deck is coming back and Kate now identifies as a lesbian.  See you there?

[RHJunkie]

30 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

And because it simply cannot be said enough - at any time and in any language - once someone calls you a Pedophile, all bets are off. Let the diagnosis and name calling proceed at every available opportunity. Do it in Tweets, on billboards, put it in fortune cookies. Go tell it on the mountain if you need to. Whisper it in Lu's ear whenever you have the opportunity. Whisper it in her fake boyfriend's ear. Anything and everything you know, think, believe, or just pull out of your ass if fair game at this point. 

Okay, for the last time - I am NOT calling out Carole for the things she's said about Luann. I am calling out Carole for COMPLAINING about the things Luann has said about her only to turn about and do the exact same thing. And further, she has constructed a narrative and taken everything she can get her hands on and found a way to present it in a manner that is evidence to her cause.  It's quite evident that Carole has a bone but 1) don't pretend that you don't care and you're past it when you're clearly not and 2) don't call out someone for behaving a certain way if you're going to do the same. I can't tell if I'm not being clear with where my issue lies here or if you simply don't care because you've decided that Carole's hypocrisy is okay while Luann's is not because Luann started it all. I have been consistent with saying that both have been hypocritical. Both have been nasty to each other. Carole and Bethenny have been the aggressors on camera in their righteous cause for moral justice against Luann and that is the only reason why so many are calling them out and have soured on them. Not because they have no honest reason not to like or trust Luann but because most people are going to think it's shady as hell of anyone to treat someone a certain way for whatever reason but also have the audacity to complain about the poor treatment they have or are receiving in return. I truly do apologize for using this term but it's fitting (Lisa Rinna ruined it) - Carole needs to OWN IT. If you want to give Luann a taste of her own medicine, OWN IT. Carole isn't owning it. Carole wants to dish out in retaliation but she wants to still play the victim of absolute innocence. Nope. Not happening.

Edited June 17, 2016 by RHJunkie

[motorcitymom65]

11 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

So in other words there just shouldn't be any end to this ridiculous display Carole keeps offending the viewers with? Scratching my head with that one.

I guess I don't see this display as any more ridiculous than other displays we have to see. I scratch my head about the fact that in some cases we want real life on our reality show, and in some cases we want them to dance like monkeys for our benefit because we don't like the reality. Well, this is reality. Sometimes people are so hurt and angry that it takes a while for them to move on. In real life it would not be unusual for a person to still have a hard time getting past what happened between Lu and Carole. I wouldn't be able to get over it at this point. I have seen far more ridiculous displays on this and most all of the other shows. 

[JAYJAY1979]

to me, i think its more realistic that Carole doesnt want to engage with Luann.  Back in the day of the franchise..not all the women went to the gatherings...and that was during season 3 of the show (when the show was at its peak..imho).

I think in order to shake off the scripted vibe..the show needs ro be more realistic.  

[RHJunkie]

19 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Seriously! Good Grief.

Oh and I must say that I have to mention the continued mix feelings I have about loving everything you've posted here in NY considering how you drove me crazy over in the Atlanta thread. ;-)

As well as point out that me and Umbelina have shared some really strong agreeing viewpoints over in the BH thread only to have strongly conflicting opinions here in NY.

It's a bit maddening but thrilling all the same and I have to say what's even better is that we can still manage to rise above certain indulgences when we've come to a head in any particular thread. So thanks for that and Cheers! :-)

LMAO! I'll be the first to admit, I'm a fickle reality tv fan. My commentary and clap back of the various housewives depends solely on how they act in any given season. For example, I defended Kenya in the season where Nene put a target on her back all because she showed up to her pajama party late but then this past season, Kenya annoyed the hell out of me with her condescending attitude while she accused others of being condescending. But I digress...I don't want to go off topic in here, haha. That's the thing with forums - it's amazing how strongly you can agree and disagree with the same exact person with the only variable being the topic at hand. Cheers to good conversation. We can go back to arguing when the new season of Atlanta begins :P

[ghoulina]

1 hour ago, archer1267 said:

John and Dorinda having dinner and NOT getting into a fight

That had to have been the biggest WTF of the episode. I guess Dorinda was too busy trying to defuse Jules to notice any of the boorish things I'm sure John was doing. I bet he didn't have to go back to Queens alone that night. 

 

1 hour ago, pbutler111 said:

I think the "I'm no shrink" part makes it pretty clear she's not diagnosing anyone, but rather giving her opinion of their behavior.

I agree. I didn't see anything wrong with what Carole said. I've seen many of us make speculations about what we think is wrong with all these reality tv personas. She didn't outright insist Lu had anything. I did like her description of her as a "decent woman trapped in an idea of who she should be". That's exactly how I see Lu. She can't let the Countess thing go. 

[shoegal]

I find it seriously funny that there are pages and pages, episode after episode, bemoaning how Carole won't let it go. 

Edited June 17, 2016 by shoegal