Season 7: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[Wouter]

1 hour ago, OhOkayWhat said:

About the summoning letter to Sansa. It's Tyrion the one making the arrangments for the truce. Wight Hunt is a very risky mission and even if they get the wight, nobody knew, at that moment, if the North Stark representative could survive.

That might be the explanation that makes the most sense (other than the meta-reason of D&D needing Brienne in the south, of course). Tyrion or Varys might feel a back-up for the north is desirable, and Jon would not necessarily know about this when the invitation was sent (after all, it would be in case he wouldn't return), nor be terribly surprised to see Brienne later if Tyrion and/or Varys told him of the invitation after he got back from Eastwatch.

Edited August 23, 2017 by Wouter

[Happy Harpy]

1 hour ago, LadyChaos said:

To me it is clear that Sansa sent Brienne to KL to get her out of the way for whatever she thinks will happen or she needs to do.  However I am on the fence as to Little gave his little speech in hopes that she would try to make Brienne leave, or if he was just trying to appear supportive and bipartisan. 

I agree.

For me, Littlefinger played on both levels. At first, he was testing the waters of Sansa's state of mind, to see how far his plan to drive a wedge between the sisters worked (the "Arya isn't like this" part). I noticed upon rewatch that after his mention of Brienne, Littlefinger didn't name names, but used "one of you" instead. So it looked as if he suggested that Brienne would defend Sansa if Arya "planned to harm her in any way", and I thought he was underestimating Brienne. But actually, the sentence could work with Sansa doing the planning...and after all, the general topic of conversation was "what do I do with Arya?". The suggestion and the double meaning is really right in Littlefinger's alley,and knowing that Arya is spying on him he would pay extra attention to what he says aloud. Sansa of all people would pick up on the subtleties of his speech. If she didn't or didn't follow his suggestion, plan B was probably to ingratiate himself to her by playing the reasonable, helpful sounding board.

I don't know if Sansa truly contemplates getting rid of Arya, but the writing certainly is ambiguous and I don't see how it could not be ambiguous on purpose.

The leaks are right 99% of the time, but the little they're wrong about can completely change the way a scene comes off (LF/Sansa, Sansa/Brienne). I'm waiting for the finale to see if it was truly about both sisters and their relationship, which I find interesting, of if it curdles to become a redux of Jon/Sansa last season.

Edited August 23, 2017 by Happy Harpy

[SeanC]

1 hour ago, LadyChaos said:

Anyone read the article where supposedly one of TPTB implied that one of the sisters might die?

To me it is clear that Sansa sent Brienne to KL to get her out of the way for whatever she thinks will happen or she needs to do.  However I am on the fence as to Little gave his little speech in hopes that she would try to make Brienne leave, or if he was just trying to appear supportive and bipartisan. 

Alan Taylor gave an interview where he said:

Quote

"I love the fact that these two come back, they’re both lethal, and I just wanted to give the impression, as much as possible, that one of them is going to die. Something is coming very soon between them, and it will be violent but surprising.”

He's playing word games and referring to Sansa condemning Littlefinger to death, with Arya as the executioner.

Sansa definitely wanted Brienne out of the way for some reason, and I'm sure that's what Littlefinger wanted.  What exactly Sansa thinks this serves is confusing.

14 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

The leaks are right 99% of the time, but the little they're wrong about can completely change the way a scene comes off (LF/Sansa, Sansa/Brienne). I'm waiting for the finale to see if it was truly about both sisters and their relationship, which I find interesting, of if it curdles to become a redux of Jon/Sansa last season.

In this case we actually have a script page of their final scene in the episode, which is genuinely "woo, sistas!"  A sentiment, incidentally, that will be entirely unearned based on what preceded it, from the sound of it.

[OhOkayWhat]

14 minutes ago, SeanC said:

In this case we actually have a script page of their final scene in the episode, which is genuinely "woo, sistas!"  A sentiment, incidentally, that will be entirely unearned based on what preceded it, from the sound of it.

It depends how it's played. And, if I'm not wrong, the showrunners said they constantly modify the script, even while filming.

Edited August 23, 2017 by OhOkayWhat

[SeanC]

5 minutes ago, OhOkayWhat said:

And, if I'm not wrong, the showrunners said they constantly modify the script, even while filming.

Lines of dialogue, etc., yeah.  But by the time you get to the shooting script you've generally settled on what the tone, purpose of a scene is meant to be.  Lines are just expressions of that purpose.

[WearyTraveler]

21 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Sansa definitely wanted Brienne out of the way for some reason, and I'm sure that's what Littlefinger wanted.  What exactly Sansa thinks this serves is confusing.

If Littlefinger wanted Brienne out of the way and Sansa grants him his wish, the options I see for Sansa's motivation are:

1) Sansa trusts LF and sends Brienne away because she thinks whatever course of action he suggests is the right thing to do

2) Sansa doesn't trust LF, but sends Brienne away to make him believe that she trusts him

I think the writers are trying to sell us number 2, but not doing a very good job of it because they want to surprise us with the big reveal of Sansa condemning LF to death and Arya executing him. 

[OhOkayWhat]

58 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Lines of dialogue, etc., yeah.  But by the time you get to the shooting script you've generally settled on what the tone, purpose of a scene is meant to be.  Lines are just expressions of that purpose.

The purpose of the scene will not be "woo, sistas!", in my opinion. I think it will be mostly: "rebuilding the relationship / truce / a new beginning for the sisters"

[SeanC]

Just now, OhOkayWhat said:

The purpose of the scene will not be "woo, sistas!", in my opinion. I think it will be mostly: "rebuilding the relationship / truce / a new beginning for the sisters"

Yeah, that's what I mean.  The scene doesn't "curdle" the way the previous season ended with Jon/Sansa.

[Heathrowe]

And also, the Starks were so ground down two seasons ago-now they are finally getting their revenge/settling the score with those that killed their family.

[spottedreptile]

2 hours ago, SeanC said:

But by the time you get to the shooting script you've generally settled on what the tone, purpose of a scene is meant to be.  Lines are just expressions of that purpose.

Generally, yes. I've seen some shows which appear to be making up the script as they go along. I've gotten this feeling a bit this season with GOT, but maybe it's just crappy writing, or their super-secret purpose is beyond my ability to decipher. 

[LadyChaos]

6 hours ago, OhOkayWhat said:

It depends how it's played. And, if I'm not wrong, the showrunners said they constantly modify the script, even while filming.

I took a script writing class once.  The professor said this, 'A screenwriter writes a script, and its all well and good.  However, before shooting even starts, some scenes are cut, while filming scenes end up cut or changes on the fly.  Lastly, even after filming, many scenes end up on the cutting room floor.  When all is said and done, less than 30% of the screenplay remains in tacked.'

[anamika]

9 hours ago, WearyTraveler said:

If Littlefinger wanted Brienne out of the way and Sansa grants him his wish, the options I see for Sansa's motivation are:

1) Sansa trusts LF and sends Brienne away because she thinks whatever course of action he suggests is the right thing to do

2) Sansa doesn't trust LF, but sends Brienne away to make him believe that she trusts him

I think the writers are trying to sell us number 2, but not doing a very good job of it because they want to surprise us with the big reveal of Sansa condemning LF to death and Arya executing him. 

No, actually the writers are trying to sell us number 1 and that's where they are not doing a good job and that's why when Gwendoline Christie talks about Brienne's arc this season, we have to get that from actor, writer and director interviews.

Brienne has formed a deep affection for Arya this season:

Quote

“[W]hat’s recurrent in Brienne’s life is forming relationships with people that start with an opposing force, then a begrudging mutual respect and, out of that, a deep respect and pure love,” she said. “That happens again this season. Brienne will realize a deep alliance.”

When Brienne and the Hound meet again, they fondly discuss Arya.

And Alan Taylor mentions that Brienne is Arya's protector:

Quote

Arya is certainly lethal and sort of threatening, but when Sansa sends Brienne away, who is Arya’s natural protector, something is coming very soon between them, and it will be violent but surprising.

So Sansa is actually sending Brienne away because she realizes Brienne has formed a deep bond with Arya and will protect her. We are supposed to get this from Arya's bonding with Brienne over their sword fighting and Sansa watching them and feeling jealous and LF noticing her jealousy. Next we see, LF brings up Brienne's connection to Arya and Sansa immediately sends Brienne away.

Because let's face it - LF is a master player and genius villain - he is supposed to be successfully playing Sansa here. Otherwise what is even the point of LF this season?

And when Gwendoline says this:

Quote

Brienne starts to question those preconceived ideas…of how her life should be, how she should live her life, what loyalty truly means. Does loyal mean adhering blindly to someone who perhaps is making poor decisions, or does it mean trying to steer them towards the better way?”

She is talking about her loyalty to Sansa who sends her away to isolate Arya. We see Brienne try to reason with Sansa who treats her rather rudely and dismisses her opinions. She is questioning what it means to be loyal to someone who she sees is getting manipulated by LF and is making poor decisions.

Because let's face it - sending Brienne away is a piss poor decision. If she was actually playing LF, she could have brought both Arya and Brienne into her plans. If it was really necessary, she could have asked Brienne to act as if she was going away - wait it out in that motel she stayed in season 5. She could have asked Brienne to go talk to Arya for her. She could have confided in Brienne about the letter. The fact that she does none of this, treats Brienne like a servant and sends her off without telling her anything is making Brienne question her situation in life.

Coupled together with this from the Frikidoctor spoilers for next episode:

Quote

Brienne tries to convince Jaime to change Cersei's mind about the situation. Jaime admires Brienne for her loyalty to House Stark, but Brienne says "Fuck loyalty, it's about survival." Jaime seems pretty convinced that the NK and the army of the dead are a real threat.

I think Brienne throws in her lot with Jon and co at the end of the finale - and if Sansa tries to stir up shit with the Northern lords, I don't think she can expect blind loyalty from Brienne anymore.

9 hours ago, WearyTraveler said:

2) Sansa doesn't trust LF, but sends Brienne away to make him believe that she trusts him

This is as nonsensical as Sansa not telling Jon about the Vale army last season. 

Going by the script outlines and interviews this season - Sansa feels that she should be ruling the North instead of Jon - Arya picks up on this and that is what is fueling their conflict. Sansa is getting manipulated by LF at this point - she sends Brienne away to isolate Arya. Sansa could have got rid of LF in episode one, but she needs him and his advice - that's why he is hanging around her all the time and why she is telling him everything.  Arya is also getting manipulated by LF - the letter confirms her views on Sansa.

Everything is just going to be neatly tied up next episode when Sansa suddenly realizes what is happening, goes to Bran for a data download, fails to tell Arya any of this , calls everyone to the hall and has LF executed.

13 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

Also, one of the things I really hate from any show is how there are characters in the same room and they never interact. Brienne and Jon have not exchanged a single word. Ever.

They should have had a scene like the Jon-Jorah one where Brienne tells Jon that she has part of Ice and that it should rightfully belong to Ned's son and Jon can tell her to keep it because she is protecting the Starks with it.  The fact that she has not brought up her sword to the Starks is annoying me to no end. She could have told Arya after that fight. It's Valyrian steel, dammit! Maybe next season, when Brienne joins the gang at the wall, she will finally mention it.

Edited August 24, 2017 by anamika

[Oscirus]

13 hours ago, WearyTraveler said:

If Littlefinger wanted Brienne out of the way and Sansa grants him his wish, the options I see for Sansa's motivation are:

1) Sansa trusts LF and sends Brienne away because she thinks whatever course of action he suggests is the right thing to do

2) Sansa doesn't trust LF, but sends Brienne away to make him believe that she trusts him

I believe it's a case of Sansa doesn't know what she's going to do yet. Until Littlefinger really starts pushing, it could likely go either way. If she does want to do something to Arya, she doesn't want Brienne to stop it/ talk her out of it so she sent her away and then formulated a strategy as to who to side with.

[crowceilidh]

This "violent and surprising" malarky that keeps getting quoted about Sansa and Arya's interaction at the end of this arc....  For it to be surprising, it will not be LF's death; everyone has been hankering after that and predicting it for ages.  Do they have a reason to kill Bran?  That would be violent and SURPRISING.  

Edited August 24, 2017 by crowceilidh

[PatsyandEddie]

Littlefinger is aware that Bran has secret knowledge of him. He may try to kill Bran somehow and that could result in his death by one of the sisters with the all important dagger. As much as I love Arya, his death needs to come at Sansa's hand or Bran's. 

[LadyChaos]

1 hour ago, crowceilidh said:

This "violent and surprising" malarky that keeps getting quoted about Sansa and Arya's interaction at the end of this arc....  For it to be surprising, it will not be LF's death; everyone has been hankering after that and predicting it for ages.  Do they have a reason to kill Bran?  That would be violent and SURPRISING.  

Maybe LF's death is violent and surprising if your not spoiled?

[YaddaYadda]

Some promo stills for episode 7. It looks like Jon is back on Dragonstone. I'm assuming this happens before the dragonpit scenes?

[SimoneS]

38 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

Some promo stills for episode 7. It looks like Jon is back on Dragonstone. I'm assuming this happens before the dragonpit scenes?

Thanks for the photos. Ugh, I hate Cersei's wig. It is so unattractive and it ages Lena. And because of her square chin, it makes her look masculine.

I don't understand why they would go all the way back to Dragonstone just to head back to Kings Landing. Why does the show show the map of Westeros in the opening if it is going to ignore it. Why isn't Dany in any of the photos? 

Edited August 24, 2017 by SimoneS

[Oscirus]

2 hours ago, crowceilidh said:

This "violent and surprising" malarky that keeps getting quoted about Sansa and Arya's interaction at the end of this arc....  For it to be surprising, it will not be LF's death; everyone has been hankering after that and predicting it for ages.  Do they have a reason to kill Bran?  That would be violent and SURPRISING.  

According to spoilers it's supposed to be Arya's trial, then SURPRISE it's Littlefingers. I assume that's what they're referring to

[screamin]

20 hours ago, SeanC said:

Sansa definitely wanted Brienne out of the way for some reason, and I'm sure that's what Littlefinger wanted.  What exactly Sansa thinks this serves is confusing.

 

I think it's because the situation with Arya has to be handled with kid gloves, and Sansa knows straightforward warrior Brienne is not the person to do that.

I think that if Brienne knew that Arya had been making escalating hostile accusations that Sansa is a potential traitor, she'd want to confront Arya about it. I don't think it's true that Brienne would take Arya's side...firstly, Arya's accusations would seem patently irrational even to a stranger. Second, Brienne knows Arya's skills (as well as her somewhat suspicious refusal to tell where she had learned them). If Brienne were asked which sister seems the more likely to be able to harm the other, she'd pick Arya. And if she'd seen Arya wave that knife in Sansa's face while threatening to cut it off, she'd want to confiscate her weapons, faces and maybe even put her under guard. Arya's touchy and such measures by Brienne would have a high probability of ending badly...which is probably why LF wanted Brienne to 'resolve' the issue with Arya to begin with.

[BitterApple]

1 hour ago, LadyChaos said:

Maybe LF's death is violent and surprising if your not spoiled?

That's what I'm thinking. The entire plotline for every episode was leaked a long time ago. I can't imagine there's any twists or cliffhangers we don't already know about.

[glowbug]

3 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

Some promo stills for episode 7. It looks like Jon is back on Dragonstone. I'm assuming this happens before the dragonpit scenes?

Those stills of Jaime and Cersei look like they come from the part where Cersei tells Jaime that she has no plans to help in the fight against the WW and double-cross Dany and company. The leaks say he's horrified by her decision and this is what finally causes him to break with her. It's been a long time coming. 

[SimoneS]

10 minutes ago, glowbug said:

Those stills of Jaime and Cersei look like they come from the part where Cersei tells Jaime that she has no plans to help in the fight against the WW and double-cross Dany and company. The leaks say he's horrified by her decision and this is what finally causes him to break with her. It's been a long time coming. 

After everything Cersei has done, this is what makes Jaime turn against her? Okay, I will go with it.

[SeanC]

5 hours ago, crowceilidh said:

This "violent and surprising" malarky that keeps getting quoted about Sansa and Arya's interaction at the end of this arc....  For it to be surprising, it will not be LF's death; everyone has been hankering after that and predicting it for ages.  Do they have a reason to kill Bran?  That would be violent and SURPRISING.  

This is being said by somebody promoting the show.  Every twist is "surprising" in their vernacular.  They want you thinking one of the sisters is going to kill the other, but, oh wow, Sansa turns on Littlefinger!!!

[Moxie Cat]

15 hours ago, anamika said:

They should have had a scene like the Jon-Jorah one where Brienne tells Jon that she has part of Ice and that it should rightfully belong to Ned's son and Jon can tell her to keep it because she is protecting the Starks with it. 

I'm looking forward to the (potential) scene in which Brienne and Jamie and the two halves of Ice are reunited with Jon and co. Olenna's dialogue reminding the audience that Jamie wields Widow's Wail couldn't have been for nothing. And they're both Valyrian steel - we need these suckers!

Besides Longclaw and the Tarly sword (which was no doubt stolen for later season plot purposes), have we seen any other Valyrian steel swords on this show? Is Dawn one? (Though not holding out much hope for that appearance, since the Daynes seem to have been mostly excluded from the show.)

[BitterApple]

27 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

After everything Cersei has done, this is what makes Jaime turn against her? Okay, I will go with it.

Ha ha, right? You'd think Cersei basically causing Tommen to commit suicide would've been the dealbreaker, but I'll go with this way too.

[YaddaYadda]

30 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

After everything Cersei has done, this is what makes Jaime turn against her? Okay, I will go with it.

I don't know what to make of the show character. She blew up the sept, her son committed suicide because of it and she called him a traitor for it. But no biggie. 

It's sad, because I actually do like Jaime (book Jaime more than show Jaime, mind you). Jaime killed Aerys for less than that. The things she has done make Aerys look like amateur hour.

[screamin]

And you know the REALLY annoying thing? Jaime can reason that he's doing even THIS ultimately for Cersei and their unborn child's sake - that if she were thinking straight she'd realize that the NK is a greater threat to her survival than her current enemies - so even joining them in fighting the WW is ultimately for Cersei's good and not really turning against her. :P

[Katsullivan]

49 minutes ago, SeanC said:

This is being said by somebody promoting the show.  Every twist is "surprising" in their vernacular.  They want you thinking one of the sisters is going to kill the other, but, oh wow, Sansa turns on Littlefinger!!!

This is the entire point of this Sansa/Arya arc. It's just a misdirect to make us think that one or both of the girls are evil. But PYSHCH! they're not. 

[YaddaYadda]

11 minutes ago, screamin said:

And you know the REALLY annoying thing? Jaime can reason that he's doing even THIS ultimately for Cersei and their unborn child's sake - that if she were thinking straight she'd realize that the NK is a greater threat to her survival than her current enemies - so even joining them in fighting the WW is ultimately for Cersei's good and not really turning against her. :P

Then he can burn. 

[Mrs Ruttenhouse]

5 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Thanks for the photos. Ugh, I hate Cersei's wig. It is so unattractive and it ages Lena. And because of her square chin, it makes her look masculine.

I don't understand why they would go all the way back to Dragonstone just to head back to Kings Landing. Why does the show show the map of Westeros in the opening if it is going to ignore it. Why isn't Dany in any of the photos? 

I believe Jon, Dany et al return to Dragonstone AFTER the dragonpit scene. They go there to regroup and strategize the defense of Westeros before leaving for the North.

 

Some folks are theorizing Dany isn't in the trailer/photos because they want her costume to be a surprise.

[Minneapple]

3 hours ago, glowbug said:

Those stills of Jaime and Cersei look like they come from the part where Cersei tells Jaime that she has no plans to help in the fight against the WW and double-cross Dany and company. The leaks say he's horrified by her decision and this is what finally causes him to break with her. It's been a long time coming. 

Every time Cersei does something terrible I think, THIS IS IT, this is what will cause Jaime to ditch her. And every time I'm wrong. I don't care about him anymore, so whatever. 

[YaddaYadda]

Stuff I think about. Jon and The Mountain are going to both be at the dragonpit and Jon has no idea what that means. 

1 hour ago, Mrs Ruttenhouse said:

Some folks are theorizing Dany isn't in the trailer/photos because they want her costume to be a surprise.

That'd be neat. I haven't been a fan of that costume she's been wearing. If there's a new costume, more red please.

[DarkRaichu]

6 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I don't understand why they would go all the way back to Dragonstone just to head back to Kings Landing. Why does the show show the map of Westeros in the opening if it is going to ignore it.

What map? Dragonstone is practically a stone throw away from KL.  After all, Ser Davos went from Dragonstone to King's Landing and back in less than a day using a freak'n ROWBOAT !!! :D :D :D

[bunnyblue]

55 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

Stuff I think about. Jon and The Mountain are going to both be at the dragonpit and Jon has no idea what that means. 

I must know nothing just like Jon, because what does it mean? The only connection I can think of is that the Mountain killed Jon's half-brother and half-sister. Or is it something else?

[YaddaYadda]

16 minutes ago, bunnyblue said:

I must know nothing just like Jon, because what does it mean? The only connection I can think of is that the Mountain killed Jon's half-brother and half-sister. Or is it something else?

I think everyone knows more than Jon does. And that's what I was thinking about. 

[SimoneS]

1 hour ago, YaddaYadda said:

I haven't been a fan of that costume she's been wearing. If there's a new costume, more red please.

I have liked her dark outfits, but Daenerys in red walking off Drogon would be seriously bad ass. It about time that the Targaryen red make an appearance.

[MadMouse]

I just want Cersei to find out about Jon heritage before she dies. The silver prince that was denied her fathers a child with the woman her husband never got over. What did she say in season 1" What harm could Lyanna Stark's ghost do to either of us?"

[Haleth]

19 hours ago, LadyChaos said:

Maybe LF's death is violent and surprising if your not spoiled?

I dunno.  The writing for the scenes with Sansa and Arya has been so heavy handed I think even unspoiled viewers are guessing it's a misdirection.  D&D aren't as clever as they think they are.

 

19 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I don't understand why they would go all the way back to Dragonstone just to head back to Kings Landing.

Dragonstone is on the way.

[stagmania]

13 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

That'd be neat. I haven't been a fan of that costume she's been wearing. If there's a new costume, more red please.

11 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I have liked her dark outfits, but Daenerys in red walking off Drogon would be seriously bad ass. It about time that the Targaryen red make an appearance.

Pretty awesome costume analysis for all the ladies from Tom and Lorenzo here. 

Edited August 25, 2017 by stagmania

[YaddaYadda]

7 hours ago, MadMouse said:

I just want Cersei to find out about Jon heritage before she dies. The silver prince that was denied her fathers a child with the woman her husband never got over. What did she say in season 1" What harm could Lyanna Stark's ghost do to either of us?"

If that happens, she'll think that Ned was positioning himself to place Jon on the throne. I'm also dying of laughter (like tears in my eyes dying of laughter) imagining her face. 

I've always wondered about Jaime's reaction though. Rhaegar looms fairly large in his chapters. 

[domina89]

14 hours ago, Mrs Ruttenhouse said:

Some folks are theorizing Dany isn't in the trailer/photos because they want her costume to be a surprise.

I bet she is going to look AMAZING.  It's like when you are going to a party and you know your guy's ex-girlfriend will be there... you have to look your best.  It's a power move.  I think she should wear red, too.  It would be great if she just sat up on top of Drogon for the entire meeting.  I can't wait to see those two face off in person.

[Eyes High]

7x01-7x07 summaries and outlines have been leaked at /Freefolk (some of the summaries and outlines were previously leaked). Not sure whether it's kosher to discuss the 7x07 stuff, since discussing the details of unaired leaked episodes is verboten on these boards, but they're there.

Edited August 25, 2017 by Eyes High

[MarySNJ]

2 hours ago, stagmania said:

Pretty awesome costume analysis for all the ladies from Tom and Lorenzo here. 

Thanks for linking to this article! I completely agree with Tom and Lorenzo. I think Michelle Clapton is an artistic genius when it comes to costuming, but this season's costumes are among my favorites. I like tailored clothes anyway and I just love all the Ladies/Queens' looks. But that white and grey coat that Daenerys wore is beyond stunning.  

[BitterApple]

I have a feeling Dany will be in red as well. It's a power color and we haven't seen her in it since she came to Westeros. I wonder if the costumers were saving it for her big showdown with Cersei.

[Inquirer]

On 8/24/2017 at 0:50 AM, anamika said:

This is as nonsensical as Sansa not telling Jon about the Vale army last season. 

Going by the script outlines and interviews this season - Sansa feels that she should be ruling the North instead of Jon - Arya picks up on this and that is what is fueling their conflict. Sansa is getting manipulated by LF at this point - she sends Brienne away to isolate Arya. Sansa could have got rid of LF in episode one, but she needs him and his advice - that's why he is hanging around her all the time and why she is telling him everything.  Arya is also getting manipulated by LF - the letter confirms her views on Sansa.

Everything is just going to be neatly tied up next episode when Sansa suddenly realizes what is happening, goes to Bran for a data download, fails to tell Arya any of this , calls everyone to the hall and has LF executed.

Well, the recent leaked outline shows that you're incorrect.  Sansa did indeed send Brienne away to make LF think he's got her in his thrall, when actually she didn't trust him at all, and actually still trusted Arya in spite of what was going on between them.  The scene in Arya's room in the outline reads like Sansa testing that trust and being afraid that she might have been wrong as it goes on, but then Arya doesn't stab her with the dagger (in the outline, she never even picks it up) and leaves.  Her trust in Arya secured, Sansa then deceives LF into trying to get her to abandon Jon and to talk up Arya as having the desire to kill Sansa and become Lady of Winterfell (Sansa legit sounds brilliant in that scene - she plays LF like a freaking violin.)  Sansa then goes to Arya and tells her everything about LF, they then go together to get the data download from Bran, and LF is executed in glorious, karmic fashion.  I cannot wait to actually see that scene on Sunday.

Honestly, the outline version of this plot sounded more reasonable than it ended up on screen, due to several differences in how scenes play out and what is said (Arya flat-out says she is NOT going to present the Northern Lords with the letter, so there's no subtle blackmail like in the show), and because there seems to be more of a valid reason for Arya to mistrust Sansa, whereas in the show it just doesn't really come off - Sansa seems perfectly reasonable and doesn't really betray any signs of power-lust, making Arya seem paranoid and vindictive just for the sake of pushing the plot forward.

Quote

Because let's face it - LF is a master player and genius villain - he is supposed to be successfully playing Sansa here. Otherwise what is even the point of LF this season?

The point is that in this season, he finally overplays his hand and gets out-maneuvered by Sansa.  He thought that stoking this conflict would drive Sansa completely back to him, but Sansa had his number from the start and was only playing along in order to get proof that he was stoking the conflict and trying to take power for himself at the Stark family's expense.

Basically, it was a big fake-out: he successfully played Arya, and the audience is all meant to think he's done the same to Sansa until SURPRISE! She turns the tables on him and reveals the truth.

Edited August 25, 2017 by Inquirer

[stagmania]

Really interesting music analysis and hints that line up pretty well with what we know about the finale. 

[MadMouse]

4 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

If that happens, she'll think that Ned was positioning himself to place Jon on the throne. I'm also dying of laughter (like tears in my eyes dying of laughter) imagining her face. 

I've always wondered about Jaime's reaction though. Rhaegar looms fairly large in his chapters. 

Thats why I always complained about how they treated Jaime's story in the show, his guilt is so overwhelming. They really needed to do his weirwood stump dream/vision of Rhaegar and the KG. The reveal about Jon would be huge for his character.

[anamika]

1 hour ago, Inquirer said:

Well, the recent leaked outline shows that you're incorrect.  Sansa did indeed send Brienne away to make LF think he's got her in his thrall,

Where is this mentioned in the outline? Can you copy/paste the relevant bits?

In fact the script mentions the opposite of what you are saying:

Quote

Sending Brienne away is like sending Sansa's conscious away; We can't help but feel that Sansa is planning on doing the sort of things that her conscience might find disagreeable

As per the outline, it looks like Sansa finally realizes in the finale that there is no point to having LF around and kills him after reading out his crimes. Again, something she could have done either in episode one - she already knows he killed Lysa and worked with the Lannisters against Ned. Or in episode 5 after realizing Bran can see shit. 

And I still don't see any explanation for why she send off Brienne when she could have confided in her and Arya at any time and let them in on her grand plans if she had any before the finale.

1 hour ago, Inquirer said:

The point is that in this season, he finally overplays his hand and gets out-maneuvered by Sansa.  He thought that stoking this conflict would drive Sansa completely back to him, but Sansa had his number from the start and was only playing along in order to get proof that he was stoking the conflict and trying to take power for himself at the Stark family's expense.

Basically, it was a big fake-out: he successfully played Arya, and the audience is all meant to think he's done the same to Sansa until SURPRISE! She turns the tables on him and reveals the truth.

 

Then LF is a pointless and useless character this season and that is not how they write this show. They give villains their due before they are killed off. LF was playing both Sansa and Arya successfully this season - Arya gets fooled by the letter and Sansa gets manipulated into sending Brienne away.

If Sansa had his number from the start there was no need for any of this nonsense. Brienne keeps warning her again and again about him, asking her to get rid of him.  Instead Sansa kept walking around with him telling him every thing about her plans and her problems with Arya. LF knew where to get the letter in the first place because Sansa mentions it in front of him. Are you saying that Sansa wanted LF to manipulate Arya?

As for the outline, lots of things get changed when it makes it to the screen. It would be nice if Sansa actually lets everyone in on her plan at least when taking LF down.  But as per recent spoilers, it looks Like Arya is genuinely surprised.

Looking at that outline, I am still confused as to who asked Sansa to come there. Sansa gets the raven from Dragonstone - so Tyrion send it? What in the world for? Is not the KITN representation enough?  I remember Lads not being clear on this as well with the original spoilers.

Viserion is a white walker dragon and not a wight dragon! That never struck me until now.

42 minutes ago, stagmania said:

Really interesting music analysis and hints that line up pretty well with what we know about the finale. 

The music for the R/L and D/J scene is beautiful to hear.

I think they have either abandoned the whole Tyrion falling in love with Dany plot this season, or it was being played out and we missed it. Tyrion does seem smitten with Dany at times but last episode he did not seem too bothered about Jon Snow being in love with her.

Edited August 25, 2017 by anamika

[Blonde Gator]

17 minutes ago, stagmania said:

Really interesting music analysis and hints that line up pretty well with what we know about the finale. 

Very nice, thank you! 

Remember how haunting the "Light of the Seven" was as last year's season finale opened?  We just KNEW something crazy was going to happen.  It's one of the things that we take for granted on the show, but the musical scoring is absolutely brilliant.