S07.E04: Unforgiven

[3girlsforus]

13 minutes ago, Lm2162 said:

 

[kassa]

26 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

Given how they live, I'd imagine they're going to be in serious trouble as soon as the show goes off the air.  I'm still not clear on how they purchased those gigantic houses.

I believe internet sleuths (as much as they can be believed) found that the houses were interest only purchases, meaning for the first however many years (now expiring or expired), they'd only pay interest on the houses.  The downside of that is that at the end of that period, unless they had (sensibly) been making extra payments all along) they would have zero equity in the homes, and could basically be evicted by the developer.  

So they elected to live the high life, knowing it would all go away in a few years.  But that's how they've historically operated -- put all the debt on one wife, run it up, declare bankruptcy, start over running up debt on the next wife.  By the time you get around to Wife 1 again, the statute of limitations has passed. Get the use of four gigantic homes for 5-6 years?  Didn't take a lot of arm twisting for that, even knowing it would end.  Non-grifters would have seen the show as an opportunity to truly get set for life (in the sense of security, not abundance), narrowed it to two much more modest homes side by side with kids apportioned equally, banking every single possible cent they could.

But that's not their mindset.

[islandgal140]

So now that Mariah is on the hell to the no side of the question: "Will you enter into a plyg union?" where are we on the kids who will and won't? Seems that a vast majority of them won't. With one or 2 undecideds but I can't recall who.

Have we heard what Robyn's kids want as for as plural marriage? I have to say, I see the girls, especially Aurora, as the most likely or should I say vulnerable, but hopefully I will be surprised. 

[Normades]

I could be wrong, but on the subject of Meri's tantrum over Solomon.  I couldn't believe her selfishness and lack of consideration of a small child.  I could swear I read somewhere that during her "friendship" while the catfish was on the phone with her, she allowed Sol to speak to "batman."  I can't remember where I read it, but it may have been a review of the "book."  If this is true and I were Robyn and Kody, there is no way I would ever let her take my child out of my sight and is sheds some possible light on the quick NO.  I tend to think the only reason the other little girl (Brianna?) was allowed to go might have been the presence of cameras.  I don't like any of them much, but I think Meri is an awful person who always wants her way.  She chose the lifestyle and chose to act irresponsibly.  I hate that she makes me take Kody's side.

[ReadMeLattice]

@islandgal140, all of them who were last asked said 100% no. Aspyn and Logan were undecided in high school, but they are both a big hell no now. Plus, they both drink now, a huge no no in their cult. 

[Celia Rubenstein]

11 minutes ago, Normades said:

I could be wrong, but on the subject of Meri's tantrum over Solomon.  I couldn't believe her selfishness and lack of consideration of a small child.  I could swear I read somewhere that during her "friendship" while the catfish was on the phone with her, she allowed Sol to speak to "batman."  I can't remember where I read it, but it may have been a review of the "book."  If this is true and I were Robyn and Kody, there is no way I would ever let her take my child out of my sight and is sheds some possible light on the quick NO.  

Yeah, you are right ... the Catfish did claim Meri put Sol on the phone at some point.  I'd forgotten about that.  

I'd say that alone (assuming it's true, and frankly I can believe it given what I've seen from Meri recently) is pretty much a deal breaker where anything having to do with Sol is concerned.  What poor judgement. 

But I guess Brianna is expendable, lol.  Actually, given her mature response to Mariah's vicious, unprovoked attack on Meri's eyebrows, I am wondering if they let Brianna travel with Meri so Brianna could keep an eye on her!   Like the way Duggars sends a nine-year-old kid to keep their twenty-something siblings in line on a "date" because JimBob and Michelle are afraid they might come home drunk and pregnant and worshipping Satan ... Brianna was Meri's accountability partner! 

[laurakaye]

Meri put Sol on the phone to Batman?  Oh hell no.

If I were any of the wives, I think I'd be combing through those voicemails and photos and crap to make sure none of my kids were involved with her online fun.  Actually, the other three wives should've gone to Kody and insisted he check every piece of evidence he could find to make extra double sure.

No way am I trusting my kids to Meri after that.  Love how easily Robyn exchanged Brianna for King Sol, though.   #freebrianna

[Normades]

Just to clarify, the claim of Sol on the phone with batfish was made by batfish, so I'm not saying it's absolute truth.  However, from what I've seen of Meri's epic lack of good judgement, I tend to lean toward believing it.  I think it goes a long way to show how much damage this caused.  I, like others, would be a lot more sympathetic if she would take at least some responsibility and be truthful.  It's also strange that she wanted to take Sol to visit Mariah --- the two Brown children who (depending on whether you believe batfish) had some kind of contact with batfish.  

I agree, it is sad that Brianna was so easily offered up.

[CofCinci]

Three days later and I'm still laughing at Meri's art. How the cameraperson and producer kept a straight face during the moment she showed off her masterpieces hung on the wall is beyond me. It reminded me of a gag from something like a Taledaga Nights II, where Ricky Bobby shows the audience paintbynumbers.  She's so bored and lonely post-Catfish that she has to pay a paint-by-the-glass artist to be her hour-friend. What about school or work, Meri? Looks like your social work studies went as far as Tyler Baltierra's (Teen Mom).  You're not going to find happiness with the Browns and now they don't trust you. 

If Meri opted to aim for someone in her lane, instead of young, model-handsome millionaire she could be happy. Instead her inner-narcissist felt entitled to Samuel Cooper. 

Edited June 1, 2016 by CofCinci

[RedheadZombie]

2 hours ago, islandgal140 said:

So now that Mariah is on the hell to the no side of the question: "Will you enter into a plyg union?" where are we on the kids who will and won't? Seems that a vast majority of them won't. With one or 2 undecideds but I can't recall who.

Have we heard what Robyn's kids want as for as plural marriage? I have to say, I see the girls, especially Aurora, as the most likely or should I say vulnerable, but hopefully I will be surprised. 

I think Mykelti may be the last hold out about saying absolutely no to polygamy.  That doesn't mean she's open to it, I just don't think she's closed that door.  Robyn's girls are still young, so who knows what they think.  Look at how polygamy has improved their way of life.  I would think they think it's wonderful at this point.

[Easyspreestep]

2 hours ago, Normades said:

I could be wrong, but on the subject of Meri's tantrum over Solomon.  I couldn't believe her selfishness and lack of consideration of a small child.  I could swear I read somewhere that during her "friendship" while the catfish was on the phone with her, she allowed Sol to speak to "batman."  I can't remember where I read it, but it may have been a review of the "book."  If this is true and I were Robyn and Kody, there is no way I would ever let her take my child out of my sight and is sheds some possible light on the quick NO.  I tend to think the only reason the other little girl (Brianna?) was allowed to go might have been the presence of cameras.  I don't like any of them much, but I think Meri is an awful person who always wants her way.  She chose the lifestyle and chose to act irresponsibly.  I hate that she makes me take Kody's side.

See for me this situation proves they are not one big happy family.  Sure for us monogamous people the answer is no you can't take Sol, but in this episode we have the adult daughter getting married and them saying there might be 4 mothers represented at the wedding.  Well to me that means that each mother should be able to comfort each kid and take care of each kid in every situation.  HOLD THE PHONE isn't the whole reason Kody had to divorce Merri and marry Robin is so that Robin's kids would stay with the family?  A family she does not trust to watch her kids overnight? Oh the hypocrisy.  

[RazzleberryPie]

17 hours ago, Adeejay said:

I wish I could give a thousand likes for this post.  That Meri is allotted the same amount of money as Janelle and Christine is beyond ridiculous.  Mariah's old bedroom was the size of a ballroom, while the other kids were three to a room in much smaller rooms.  I can't help but believe that Aspyn, Maddie and Mykelti grew up feeling inferior.  Mariah was all for polygamy when her mother was first wife, but now that she has been demoted and  replaced she has had a revelation and is against it. 

I agree with what you're saying, except I think that while Meri actively tried to make herself superior to the rest, nobody else actually bought that they were not as good as Meri. Meriah seemed to think she deserved everything she got, just because her mom couldn't have more kids, but she was a kid following her mother's lead. The other wives and kids just smiled and nodded, and didn't make any effort to include Meri in anything, but I don't think they ever believed they were second class citizens. Hence the problem with Meri - when you try to condescend and manipulate for decades, until no one gives a flying flip as to what you do, threats and tantrums don't work.

[Adeejay]

1 hour ago, RazzleberryPie said:

I agree with what you're saying, except I think that while Meri actively tried to make herself superior to the rest, nobody else actually bought that they were not as good as Meri.

Based on what I've seen and read about polygamy, and according to Nicki on "Big Love" (laugh), the first wife  and her children are revered and treated like royalty.  I found it annoying that whenever the older girls worked on a project together, they'd always defer to Mariah, even though Aspyn is the oldest.  At Christmas, for whatever reason, Mariah was always the first to receive her present.   That is why I was under the impression that there is a hierarchy. 

Edited June 1, 2016 by Adeejay

[seasick]

I know a lot of you don't like Robyn, and you seem to have some inside scoop on things, but here's what I saw.  Meri has never been a 'sister' or a friend to Christine and certainly not to Janelle.  I guess when Christine came on the scene she and Janelle bonded more and I'm sure Meri used the 'one kid 'theme as an excuse to stand apart.  It wouldn't have mattered anyway.   

Then Robyn came and she really befriended Meri but also kept things alive with the others.  I saw one big kick in the ass that Meri gave Robyn and it was to ditch the MSWC thing and say she was going to school. (which she didn't AND that does not take up that much time.  She could have done it) I'll bet there were a few other kicks too that we didn't see.  Robyn sought a way to bond with Meri (even offering her a kid) and to get Meri involved and be a 'part of' and got a big FU.  

I'm sure recalling Meri's selfish attitude about when the house was finished and the crap she had to have in it..and having to have the same size rental when they got to LV---  was a turn-off and another indicator for Robyn that Meri was never going to be a true friend and 'sister'. (to anyone)    I saw Robyn as someone who really wanted to bond everyone together and have sense of community and giving.  I believe the others were in for that ...Meri was (always) the fly in the ointment and the reason they couldn't live the ideal of 'sister wives'..sharing in a sense of community, giving and helping.  Meri was always counting.  

So Robyn's done.  it takes two. and Meri blew it.   Meri is an anger and pity suck. Too self-absorbed to be part of things.  Robyn was a true friend to her and I'm sure Meri hurt her deeply.    So now Robyn owes her nothing.  

[RazzleberryPie]

1 hour ago, Adeejay said:

Based on what I've seen and read about polygamy, and according to Nicki on "Big Love" (laugh), the first wife  and her children are revered and treated like royalty.  I found it annoying that whenever the older girls worked on a project together, they'd always defer to Mariah, even though Aspyn is the oldest.  At Christmas, for whatever reason, Mariah was always the first to receive her present.   That is why I was under the impression that there is a hierarchy. 

You may definitely be onto something. I think now that a lot of the kids are adults, and there's some TLC $$ to make things easier,  they're like 'whatEver Meri, we're not your servants now'.

[RazzleberryPie]

1 hour ago, seasick said:

I know a lot of you don't like Robyn, and you seem to have some inside scoop on things, but here's what I saw.  Meri has never been a 'sister' or a friend to Christine and certainly not to Janelle.  I guess when Christine came on the scene she and Janelle bonded more and I'm sure Meri used the 'one kid 'theme as an excuse to stand apart.  It wouldn't have mattered anyway.   

Then Robyn came and she really befriended Meri but also kept things alive with the others.  I saw one big kick in the ass that Meri gave Robyn and it was to ditch the MSWC thing and say she was going to school. (which she didn't AND that does not take up that much time.  She could have done it) I'll bet there were a few other kicks too that we didn't see.  Robyn sought a way to bond with Meri (even offering her a kid) and to get Meri involved and be a 'part of' and got a big FU.  

I'm sure recalling Meri's selfish attitude about when the house was finished and the crap she had to have in it..and having to have the same size rental when they got to LV---  was a turn-off and another indicator for Robyn that Meri was never going to be a true friend and 'sister'. (to anyone)    I saw Robyn as someone who really wanted to bond everyone together and have sense of community and giving.  I believe the others were in for that ...Meri was (always) the fly in the ointment and the reason they couldn't live the ideal of 'sister wives'..sharing in a sense of community, giving and helping.  Meri was always counting.  

So Robyn's done.  it takes two. and Meri blew it.   Meri is an anger and pity suck. Too self-absorbed to be part of things.  Robyn was a true friend to her and I'm sure Meri hurt her deeply.    So now Robyn owes her nothing.  

I don't know if Robyn was a true friend to Meri, but at least she was trying to appear friendly for a long time. What I don't like about Robyn is the whole 'he stole my purity, I have to be legal wife' etc just total lies. Robyn is playing the gamr she was born into, and playing it pretty well, if her goal is to be HBIC and have a lot of material things. 

Now Meri has just been selfish and loathsome from the start of the show to me, it just took a few years and a bit of conniving to have it displayed this full blown.

i don't like Robyn's manipulation, but Meri helped bring her in, helped create some sort of alliance to purposefully exclude the other two women, and then got played in the worst way ever with the legal wife swap. Then she tried to sneak and escape, and it blew up in her face, because she was sold on someone richer and better looking than Kody. She was so into the catfish, simply because she thought he was 'better' and she was once agin winning and being better than the rest of them. She's lucky they didn't totally kick her out on the street for being so selfish, deceitful and mean to them.

cant believe I'd ever defend Robyn, but no way in hell would I leave my child alone with a woman who cuts another man's name into her arm, threatens to leave, and flat out acts crazy. I wouldn't leave them alone in the same room, let alone put him in a vehicle and kiss him goodbye with that lunatic.

[mmmsoap]

First thing I noticed....Janelle is now about the same size as Maddie!

Obviously, this means that Maddie is gaining some weight. But also it shows how much Janelle has been losing. I watched a couple older episodes, and I hadn't remember how big she was originally. Her shape has definitely changed, although she obviously has more to go (and I think her weight will always be distributed around her middle, making it harder to hide in general.)

[Celia Rubenstein]

2 hours ago, Adeejay said:

I found it annoying that whenever the older girls worked on a project together, they'd always defer to Mariah, even though Aspyn is the oldest.  At Christmas, for whatever reason, Mariah was always the first to receive her present.   That is why I was under the impression that there is a hierarchy. 

Okay now wait ... it is one thing to see everyone deferring to Mariah during projects (not excusing it, but I can see people ceding to her to avoid drama).  But why was she the first to receive her Christmas present?   

She is not the oldest child.  Right?  Why did she get HER gift first?   Seriously?  How was this explained?  I can understand with there being so many kids having some kind of order to gift opening to avoid chaos ....  but why was Mariah first???  Someone needs to explain this to me please,

[NoeNoe]

8 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Okay now wait ... it is one thing to see everyone deferring to Mariah during projects (not excusing it, but I can see people ceding to her to avoid drama). K But why was she the first to receive her Christmas present?   

She is not the oldest child.  Right?  Why did she get HER gift first?   Seriously?  How was this explained?  I can understand with there being so many kids having some kind of order to gift opening to avoid chaos ....  

Quote

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but why was Mariah first???  Someone needs to explain this to me please,

Maybe they go in order of first wife's children to last? That doesn't seem fair either, but I could see them doing it on Meri's insistence.

[MamaMax]

5 hours ago, Normades said:

Just to clarify, the claim of Sol on the phone with batfish was made by batfish, so I'm not saying it's absolute truth.  However, from what I've seen of Meri's epic lack of good judgement, I tend to lean toward believing it.  I think it goes a long way to show how much damage this caused.  I, like others, would be a lot more sympathetic if she would take at least some responsibility and be truthful.  It's also strange that she wanted to take Sol to visit Mariah --- the two Brown children who (depending on whether you believe batfish) had some kind of contact with batfish.  

I agree, it is sad that Brianna was so easily offered up.

It made me wonder if she is a known Tattle Tale, sent along as Meri would know any Shenanigans would be reported back. 

I do NOT "fill" bad for Meri, because she is just simply NOT taking any responsility.  Sure, she's got a bunch of totally legit reasons she was vulnerable, sad, lonely etc etc. However, she is not owning what she did, she is not telling the truth, nor is she processing the truth, not trying to understand her "fillings." She is 100% trying to SPIN this, to get herself out of trouble.  She will admit only to what is easily proved, but will never voluntarily reveal anything that makes her look bad. I truely believe there is something wrong with her and I doubt she truly feels bad about what she DID. She feels bad that she got caught, she is sorry she got caught, she fills bad for HERSELF.

[seasick]

1 hour ago, RazzleberryPie said:

I don't know if Robyn was a true friend to Meri, but at least she was trying to appear friendly for a long time. What I don't like about Robyn is the whole 'he stole my purity, I have to be legal wife' etc just total lies. Robyn is playing the gamr she was born into, and playing it pretty well, if her goal is to be HBIC and have a lot of material things. 

Now Meri has just been selfish and loathsome from the start of the show to me, it just took a few years and a bit of conniving to have it displayed this full blown.

i don't like Robyn's manipulation, but Meri helped bring her in, helped create some sort of alliance to purposefully exclude the other two women, and then got played in the worst way ever with the legal wife swap. Then she tried to sneak and escape, and it blew up in her face, because she was sold on someone richer and better looking than Kody. She was so into the catfish, simply because she thought he was 'better' and she was once agin winning and being better than the rest of them. She's lucky they didn't totally kick her out on the street for being so selfish, deceitful and mean to them.

cant believe I'd ever defend Robyn, but no way in hell would I leave my child alone with a woman who cuts another man's name into her arm, threatens to leave, and flat out acts crazy. I wouldn't leave them alone in the same room, let alone put him in a vehicle and kiss him goodbye with that lunatic.

She cut his name in her arm??  What is she, 14?  

[RazzleberryPie]

26 minutes ago, seasick said:

She cut his name in her arm??  What is she, 14?  

Oh yes. Cut, scratched, whatever you call carving your skin to draw blood with his name. 

Also cray - she told him she wanted to have his baby - well now seriously. How does a woman with decades of fertility issues who is now in her  mid 40s going to have a baby with Catfish if she can't with her husband. 

Meri is not right in the head.

Some of the taking Sol was a power play to see if she could take Robyn's child, the their part was to show off to her potential Future Babydaddy that she was all nurturing and motherly. Remember her worth is tied to how many spirit babies she brings into this world. Sol is cute.

Either way, Robyn did the right thing by keeping Sol there. 

[NoeNoe]

Quotes aren't working for me right now. ADEEJAY mentioned a hierarchy and personally I believe that Meri and Mariah both think they're at the top of one, but that nobody else really does. I think all the deferring and letting them have their way is all to avoid their anger. The rest of the family seem pretty laid back and non-confrontational. I read these forums all the time but I've probably only seem about two seasons  worth of the show. Something  that always stuck in my memory was the absolute rage that Mariah showed when the other kids tricked her into believing that, Hunter I think, had done something wrong. The other kids appeared to be getting the reaction they expected.

[MarysWetBar]

I remember her sitting in the car staring at the house seething...SEETHING. Lmao

She looked like a sociopath.

Almost wet myself laughing at her histrionics!

[RealityCowgirl]

I cannot stand Robyn. Cannot. Stand. That said, I find myself on her side when it comes to the great (attempted) Sol caper.

First, despite constant claims to the contrary, it seems pretty clear that these are four separate families bound to one useless dope. Sol is Robyn's child. In my book, she gets to make the call and doesn't owe anyone an explanation.

Second, if the orange one actually involved Sol in her playtime with the fish-bitch (I saw/read/heard enough to be sickened, but didn't catch everything), that's pretty much settles for me whether or not she deserves special consideration for  any multi-day, out-of-state alone-time with him. He may not have been in danger. He may not have been aware of what was happening. But she exercised very poor judgment and involved him in the process.

Third, trust broken is not easily earned back. Girlfriend needs to accept that. Really own that. Two years ago, my husband was forced to admit to similar extracurricular texting fun when his playmate's husband discovered their interactions. I can tell you that, physical or not, the experience of lost trust is real. To the extent that Meri broke the trust of family members, including Robyn, that is completely on her. Regaining it won't happen overnight, if at all. She doesn't get to pretend everything's hunky dory and expect people to jump just because she wants it.

Edited June 2, 2016 by RealityCowgirl

[laurakaye]

15 minutes ago, RealityCowgirl said:

Third, trust broken is not easily earned back. Girlfriend needs to accept that. Really accept and deal with that. Two years ago, my husband was forced to admit to similar extracurricular texting fun when his playmate's husband discovered their interactions. I can tell you that, physical or not, the experience of lost trust is real. To the extent that her Meri broke the trust of family members, including Robyn, that is completely on her. Regaining it won't happen overnight, if at all. She doesn't get to expect people to pretend everything's hunky dory and jump just because she wants it.

I think this is EXACTLY what Meri expects, because it's what's happened her entire freaking life as a sister wife.  Janelle admits to simply shutting down to avoid confrontations with Meri from Day One, and I'd imagine the collection of older Brown children all understood early on that it would be easier to just let Mariah have her way as well.  Meri and Mariah are two spoiled peas in a pod, with Mariah learning the ropes from watching her mom, and Kody fostered this behavior by not shutting it down (of course, that would mean he'd have to get up off the couch, but whatever).  Meri has it set in her head that she was always the special snowflake, until Kody gleefully took Meri up on her offer to divorce her for the sake of the kids.

In fact, Meri said in one of her talking heads that everything is about the kids.  EVERYTHING.  Not buying it.  If she really believes this, then why not fend off some of her loneliness by taking care of some of the other kids?  There's a whole group of littles that Meri could hang out with.  She doesn't just have to have Sol - but I think she does it because she knows Sol is Kody's fave, and it's her way of getting into his good graces, at the expense of the other young ones.

So much passive-aggressive stealthy behavior with these women, it's a wonder any of them can sleep at night.

[Normades]

58 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

In fact, Meri said in one of her talking heads that everything is about the kids.  EVERYTHING.  Not buying it. 

I agree.  Also, if it were true she cares so much about the kids, she's had years to show evidence of that caring, such as, adjusting her income to make room in the budget for the other children or NOT putting small children on the phone with strangers from the internet. All roads lead to Meri, whether it's using Sol to gain Kody's affection or insisting on upgrades to her home.  

At least Mariah seems to have grown up a little.  I don't expect Meri to grow up at all.

[Easyspreestep]

1 hour ago, RealityCowgirl said:

I cannot stand Robyn. Cannot. Stand. That said, I find myself on her side when it comes to the great (attempted) Sol caper.

First, despite constant claims to the contrary, it seems pretty clear that these are four separate families bound to one useless dope. Sol is Robyn's child. In my book, she gets to make the call and doesn't owe anyone an explanation.

Second, if the orange one actually involved Sol in her playtime with the fish-bitch (I saw/read/heard enough to be sickened, but didn't catch everything), that's pretty much settles for me whether or not she deserves special consideration for  any multi-day, out-of-state alone-time with him. He may not have been in danger. He may not have been aware of what was happening. But she exercised very poor judgment and involved him in the process.

Third, trust broken is not easily earned back. Girlfriend needs to accept that. Really own that. Two years ago, my husband was forced to admit to similar extracurricular texting fun when his playmate's husband discovered their interactions. I can tell you that, physical or not, the experience of lost trust is real. To the extent that Meri broke the trust of family members, including Robyn, that is completely on her. Regaining it won't happen overnight, if at all. She doesn't get to pretend everything's hunky dory and expect people to jump just because she wants it.

I agree with everything you said, I just think it flies in the face of everything the try to tell us.  They are constantly trying to tell us about how much better the Poly life is because of name your reason.  The truth is they don't operate like one big happy family and I'm tired of Christine and others lying to my face.  I wish they would all just tell the truth.  I think there are advantages to Poly but I also think there a big problems, if these people were honest and showed both the good and the bad I would have no problems with them.  They try to gloss over everything and blatantly lie.  Why would Maddie have 4 mother of the brides?  at most she would have 2 as we have heard Christine did most of the child care and I would be ok with her paying homage to Christine in that way.  Merri was not a big part of the child care and Robin came around 4-5 years before she left the house.  Don't lie 

[laurakaye]

I wonder if there is pressure on Maddie to have all four wives act as mother of the bride, or if she has any say in it.  As she's the first to get married, she may be the one to set the precedent.  EasySpreeStep is right in that Janelle is her bio mom but Christine raised her (and I have noticed that several of Janelle's older children really seem to care for Christine as they do their bio mom).  Why on earth would she want flight-risk Meri and dad's newest squeeze to act as her mothers also, if they've not done so in the past?

[3girlsforus]

I suspect there is pressure on her because this is the image they want to portray. They are all moms to the kids. They are all one family. It's crap but it's the line they feed people. I'm sure in their minds if they just let Janelle act as her mother then it would acknowledge that they are 4 baby mamas with the same sperm guy. Not to mention if there are 4 mothers-of-the-bride then it will give Kody a way to run around saying 'look at my 4 wives'. 

[RazzleberryPie]

When Janelle fled, did she take any kids with her or leave them?

[kassa]

I think it's obvious Meri could have done more for the other kids in terms of sharing resources, but the younger children, at any rate, do seem to genuinely like her.  I've seen her holding them, and their rushing to hug her, unprompted.  Yeah, they're a huggy, touchy family anyway, but what we've seen of the kids they're also not shy, and I think if they genuinely didn't care for her they would be demonstrating that with body language, and they really don't.

NoeNoe wrote

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ADEEJAY mentioned a hierarchy and personally I believe that Meri and Mariah both think they're at the top of one, but that nobody else really does. I think all the deferring and letting them have their way is all to avoid their anger. The rest of the family seem pretty laid back and non-confrontational.

I agree.  There was a scene a few years ago with two of the older girls and Mariah in the kitchen doing something or other and there was a very strong tone of "just go along with whatever she says" between the other two girls.  It didn't strike me as bowing down to her so much as not wanting drama.  

I will say that her couch interactions recently have seemed a lot warmer with the older kids. I think they're all reaching an understanding of how they've been through a pretty unique experience with one another and care about the sibling relationship, even with those they identify less with.

[ghoulina]

On 5/31/2016 at 9:58 PM, Madding crowd said:

[quoteI think Mykelti may be the last hold out about saying absolutely no to polygamy.  That doesn't mean she's open to it, I just don't think she's closed that door.  Robyn's girls are still young, so who knows what they think.  Look at how polygamy has improved their way of life.  I would think they think it's wonderful at this point.]

First thing I noticed....Janelle is now about the same size as Maddie!

Obviously, this means that Maddie is gaining some weight. But also it shows how much Janelle has been losing. I watched a couple older episodes, and I hadn't remember how big she was originally. Her shape has definitely changed, although she obviously has more to go (and I think her weight will always be distributed around her middle, making it harder to hide in general.)

 

I also thought Jenelle looked smaller! When she was walking around at the potential wedding venues, she looked so different, IMO. I think she is a lot less "wide", if that makes sense. But I think maybe it's the clothes she's wearing or extra skin bunching up or something causing her to look rounder in the direct middle. But the rest of her looks great! 

 

(sorry about the above weird quote, the system hates me!)

[riverblue22]

3 hours ago, 3girlsforus said:

I suspect there is pressure on her because this is the image they want to portray. They are all moms to the kids. They are all one family. It's crap but it's the line they feed people. I'm sure in their minds if they just let Janelle act as her mother then it would acknowledge that they are 4 baby mamas with the same sperm guy. Not to mention if there are 4 mothers-of-the-bride then it will give Kody a way to run around saying 'look at my 4 wives'. 

I will now always think of Kody as sperm guy.  Love it!

[Galloway Cave]

1 hour ago, auntl said:

Kody eventually convinced her to rejoin the family in the Lehigh house. Janelle agreed because her and her children would have their own living quarters in that house.

Kody and Meri convinced Janelle to moved back with the family and BUY the Lehi house for the entire family, using an inheritance she received. Janelle (the idiot) did just that. Initially the title was in her name only; later she added Kody and Meri's names. Now Meri acts like that place is hers alone.

[SuzWhat]

Interesting that Breanna shut the door to Meri's house like a normal person, not slamming it behind her like Kody always dies to all doors.   He's the worst.

[riverblue22]

9 minutes ago, SuzWhat said:

Interesting that Breanna shut the door to Meri's house like a normal person, not slamming it behind her like Kody always dies to all doors.   He's the worst.

But...he has to rush around and slam doors because he is so IMPORTANT!!!

[kassa]

2 hours ago, auntl said:

I don't believe for one second that these kids feel allegiance to all four mothers. At the end of the day, they will care about their own mom and dad, just like everyone else. Blood is thicker than water.

I agree that they definitely consider their mom and full blood siblings their nuclear family, with Kody as absentee dad much of the time. But I do think they consider the other women moms, too -- it's just that their interpretation of that word differs from (most of) ours.

Lots of us have "aunts" and "uncles" who are no blood relation whatsoever but were given that title when we were so small we literally had no idea they were distinct from our parents' actual siblings until we were old enough to ask who was whose sibling and got a big surprise. Assuming they were active in your life, the knowledge that they were just super close friends and not related didn't demote them from aunt- or unclehood, even once you grasped it. It just broadened the aunt/uncle concept.

That's what I see here - an aunt/stepmother relationship with the label "mom" slapped on it from before they had language, then wrapped up in religious framework once they did. Christine raised most of those children - I'm sure they feel much more of a kinship with her than their bio moms' sisters.

[toodles]

Where is meri' s "husband" in all this?  They are still spiritually married, right?  Why is the sperm donor getting a free pass in all of this?  Mariah is kody' s daughter too, right?  Kody divorced her mother and married the younger model.  It was the beginning of this whole mess.  I think that hurt mariah deeply.  Kody has all kinds of excuses for not paying attention to his marriage to meri.  We all know why he doesn't give two shits about meri.  But why don't they show him talking with mariah about all of this? Lots of pictures of kody and the New baby.  How about some compassion for your oldest daughter, kody.  No wonder he's getting the dick edit.  He deserves it.

 

Kody Brown-part time father, full time asshat

[StayingAfterSunday]

On 5/31/2016 at 0:20 PM, VedaPierce said:

When the catfish scandal first broke, I felt a lot of pity for Meri. Everybody makes mistakes. Horrible that hers was so public and so humiliating. However... The way she has dealt with the fallout subsequently, speaks to her character. She is still consciously lying, denying, revising, looking for human shields for deflection, etc. That's what I find appalling. We all make mistakes but there comes a time to confess, be contrite, ask for forgiveness and THEN move on. It's not the crime, it's the coverup. That's what I find skeevy about her character. 

Also, i dont know if Meri has been diagnosed with clinical depression. I can't jump to that conclusion. I can only comment on what I've seen her say and do, I'm not aware that she can't leave the house due to depression...of course if she is clinically depressed that would shed some light to her situation. 

I am now to the point where I can no longer judge Meri's behavior or even attempt to identify her character flaws because it is just so obvious to me that Meri is seriously depressed. It seems painfully evident regardless of whether or not a formal psychiatric diagnosis has confirmed it. Menopause or peri-menopause could be a component, too, of Meri's emotional distress.

Another thought I've had about Meri:  Living amidst a child-bearing factory must have been progressively more hellish for her as the number of offspring increased between Jenelle and Christine. (It almost appears as though a competition of sorts might have been going on with those two). Also, despite Meri's being raised in a polygamous family herself, seeing evidence of Kody's physical relationships with the other two wives no less than twelve times over the years makes me wonder just how Meri held up as long as she has. I do believe Meri began to develop a genuine animosity towards Jenelle and Christine because of all of this. When Meri brought Robyn into the mix she acquired an ally until Robyn began turning out more kids, too. 

These days you can add me to the "poor Meri" camp.

[Celia Rubenstein]

You can have the tent I vacated, StayingAfterSunday. It's a good one with a view of the lake since I was one of her first defenders around here and had my choice of spots.  I won't be needing it any more. 

[ReadMeLattice]

@StayingAfterSunday, I agree that she's depressed and I have a lot of pity for her. But that doesn't excuse abusive behavior or make those around her with any complaints about her incorrect. She wants Mariah to fulfill the role Kody has in this-- to suss it out with her emotionally. Mariah is allowed to be angry about that, the lying, the humiliation, and being raised in a cult. I do hope she learns to direct more of that at her father, but I get the sense they really don't even speak or interact. He is very against her political views and doesn't care about anyone but Caleb and Robyn's kids. 

Meri was abusive to Janelle long before any kids. She was downright cruel to her and still treats her with disdain. She took money repeatedly from the other families that they needed. Seems like she wants to blame everyone (the catfish, Janelle, Robyn, Mariah) but her own mental health problems, the cult she was indoctrinated into that devalues women, and her dick of a husband. 

It also would have gone better had she sought out someone her own age, maybe a bachelor or divorced, maybe a single dad, with a normal job and life, who would really want and need love himself and a giving person. She apparently felt entitled to a 50 Shades of Greyesque billionaire/vegan/young/Catholic/6'6" fantasy, who is so perfect as to be quite literally impossible. For that, too, she has some culpability, and that wasn't all out of depression, but partly selfishness and materialism. Once it happened, though, I truly believe she desperately wanted that love, and I deeply feel for her on that count. 

So yeah, I don't think she's evil and I see her suffering, but I also see her causing it in others. 

Edited June 3, 2016 by Lm2162

[3girlsforus]

11 hours ago, toodles said:

Where is meri' s "husband" in all this?  They are still spiritually married, right?  Why is the sperm donor getting a free pass in all of this?  Mariah is kody' s daughter too, right?  Kody divorced her mother and married the younger model.  It was the beginning of this whole mess.  I think that hurt mariah deeply.  Kody has all kinds of excuses for not paying attention to his marriage to meri.  We all know why he doesn't give two shits about meri.  But why don't they show him talking with mariah about all of this? Lots of pictures of kody and the New baby.  How about some compassion for your oldest daughter, kody.  No wonder he's getting the dick edit.  He deserves it.

 

Kody Brown-part time father, full time asshat

This has bothered me through this entire thread. I don't like Meri or how she has behaved but there seems to be a growing trend to ignore Kody's role in this. I think calling Kody a part time father is generous. He shows for parties and photo-ops. We've seen his complete unwillingness to be an actual parent. These women are single moms. Kody is the root of so many of the emotional issues these women have. Polygamy as a concept is a root as well but it's even more a function of Kody's laziness and narcissism. Polygamy is always going to have issues but with a man who really wants to love and appreciate his wives it wouldn't be the full train wreck it is here. Kody uses the jealousy to his advantage. He loves the wives at odds and battling for position. It makes him feel manly (barf). 

[laurakaye]

18 hours ago, auntl said:

Christine and Janelle did not like Meri and were stonewalling her. I think that Meri brought Robyn in, in an attempt to get them back. She was trying to win and it blew up in her face. YAY

 

1 hour ago, Lm2162 said:

@StayingAfterSunday  I agree that she's depressed and I have a lot of pity for her. But that doesn't excuse abusive behavior or make those around her with any complaints about her incorrect.

So yeah, I don't think she's evil and I see her suffering, but I also see her causing it in others. 

The eternal Meri Brown conundrum, y'all.

So Meri falls for that swashbuckling rascal Kody Brown, he of the big personality and dazzling smile (back in the day).  He is all about polygamy (for reasons that I think were more selfish than religious).  Meri, although raised with polygamy, probably wasn't thrilled about having to share Kody, but knew what she was getting into when she said "I do."  I think she felt entitled as the first and legal wife of Kody, and assumed she'd always have the upper hand when it came to her man.  But she was only 19 years old, and I give her a little bit of leeway for falling in love.

Enter Janelle, who divorces Meri's brother and marries Kody.  I would've loved to have been a fly on the wall when this arrangement went down, because what a tangled, messy web of familial boundaries this is.  Is it possible that Meri wouldn't have been so mean and aggressive with Janelle had she not divorced Meri's brother to marry Meri's husband?  I think if Meri ever does decide to delve into some deep therapy, she needs to start right here.  Did Meri have much of a say about bringing Janelle into the family, or was she just blindly agreeing to whatever Kody wanted?

The Christine comes along...cute, funny, dizzy Christine, daughter of plyg royalty.  She chases Kody until he catches her.  What follows is a veritable baby-parade, with Janelle and Christine playing tag at becoming pregnant over and over and over, while Meri stands by, watching.  Here, I do feel for Meri, as her desire for more children was just not going to be part of her story.  I'd imagine Janelle and Christine share a bond that Meri could not be part of.  That had to hurt.

Enter Robyn, the person who Meri was going to bring over to "her" side in order to freeze out the pain that Janelle and Christine were unintentionally (probably, maybe) causing in Meri's life.  Meri and Robyn apparently become very close, to the point that Robyn offers to rent her womb space to Meri.

EXCEPT...Meri's man divorces her to marry Robyn (for the sake of the children, of course...no ulterior motive there, ROBYN).  Meri is getting older, and fluctuating hormones are no joke.  Kody tells Meri to drop the baby-making stuff (since he's got a new baby machine in Robyn).  Meri's only child grows up and leaves.  Kody is otherwise occupied with his new toy.  To those of us who watch her on our televisions every Sunday, it is crystal clear that Meri is depressed, sometimes painfully so.  As a woman, I can empathize.  Even though this is a situation of her own making in that she married a polygamist, it's difficult to turn away from her obvious sadness.

So Meri finds an online sweetheart and engages in what, to me, is an affair, and then artfully plays the victim as she attempts to regain the trust of the "fam'ly."  BUT I still empathize, because despite everything, what we have at the very foundation of this wacky family is the fact that Kody can sleep around and Meri cannot.  I don't know if this is what Meri thinks when she closes her eyes alone in her McMansion, but how can she not?  Kody and Meri are having marital problems, but Kody gets to escape in a way that Meri never can.  This is where I struggle, because although she is living in a situation of her own making, at the heart of it it's unfair to Meri.  Kody can flit from one house to another when one of his wives is struggling, and I have a feeling that's exactly what he does.  What can Meri do?  Who can she turn to?  She is so brainwashed that not only is Kody the King of the Kuddle-Sac, she has been taught that jealously is a moral failing within herself.  Sick and twisted to those of us on the outside, but to Meri, it's her truth.

Is it wrong of me to want to smack her upside the head and make her see things my way - that she is stuck, her husband has moved on, and if she wants any shred of happiness, she's going to have to strike out on her own, leave the family behind, and find herself, apart from her place in this family?  Even if she does realize this, can she actually do it?

Wow, sorry for the dissertation!  I started typing the thoughts and couldn't stop.  LONG STORY SHORT: I both dislike Meri for being so mean, while also understanding where the meanness comes from. 

Edited June 3, 2016 by laurakaye

[ReadMeLattice]

@laurakaye, part of the issue with blaming Kody IMO is that he is such an obvious asshole and awful husband that it's just not that nuanced or interesting to talk about. At least Meri has some redeeming qualities, etc. It's like when my students write theses that say racism is bad. Cool, maybe say something that requires a little more thought! Haha. (Not criticizing you for bringing him up BTW, he's just such a dick I find it hard to know where to start). I think he actually treats Christine with the least respect of all of them. 

Edited June 3, 2016 by Lm2162

[AZChristian]

There's also the situation with Meri that she either doesn't want to change, or can't.  She professes to want to build a better relationship with Janelle, but still reverts to her old "take over" way of doing things.  Not just a little bit - a lot.  When Janelle went to Meri's, she thought they were going to DISCUSS decor for Thanksgiving.  Meri has bought out the entire autumn aisle of the local Hobby Lobby, and has already done up the samples.  Then she says, "So what do you think of this, Janelle?"  Janelle literally did not know what to say.

And then when Kody commented on how the tables were arranged, Meri threw Christine under the bus.

Einstein once said that to continually do the same thing over and over, while expecting a different outcome, is insanity.  I think Meri has some serious issues WITH HERSELF that she needs to acknowledge before anything will change for her.

[laurakaye]

Part of this cluster is the fact that the women can subversively, or blatantly, throw each other under the bus depending on who is the Reigning Queen for the Day.  It's like watching four 13-year old girls fight, regroup, and form cliques where one is always going to be left out.  Meri feels that Kody is angry at her for how the tables are arranged?  Okay, Kody seems a bit cold on Christine today, let's sacrifice her for Meri's benefit.  Meri got caught playing with a virtual millionaire?  Awesome for Christine - she can be a little more bubbly and charming, knowing that Kody is probably seething at Meri.  Robyn is getting all the attention?  Let's have Meri get annoyed at Janelle for something, anything, so that Meri can finagle herself back into the #3 spot.  I have a feeling this type of behavior goes on every single day to some degree, since there are four women vying for the attention of one man with the attention span of a squirrel, who doesn't care one iota if any of his wives feel slighted - that's on THEM, not on him.

Kody is a narcissistic jerk.  He chooses not to see how his wives are suffering.  One is playing danger games online, one is extremely overweight and checked out, one is likely on anti-depressants, and the last one is Legal Wifey Du Jour, spinning fantasy stories about purity and literally erasing history by placing Kody into her family pictures.  Sounds like one big, happy, well-adjusted fam'ly who shoulda all been together from Day One.

I cannot believe he hasn't brought in a 5th wife yet....

[Madding crowd]

2 hours ago, AZChristian said:

There's also the situation with Meri that she either doesn't want to change, or can't.  She professes to want to build a better relationship with Janelle, but still reverts to her old "take over" way of doing things.  Not just a little bit - a lot.  When Janelle went to Meri's, she thought they were going to DISCUSS decor for Thanksgiving.  Meri has bought out the entire autumn aisle of the local Hobby Lobby, and has already done up the samples.  Then she says, "So what do you think of this, Janelle?"  Janelle literally did not know what to say.

And then when Kody commented on how the tables were arranged, Meri threw Christine under the bus.

Einstein once said that to continually do the same thing over and over, while expecting a different outcome, is insanity.  I think Meri has some serious issues WITH HERSELF that she needs to acknowledge before anything will change for her.

And Meri thought the meeting was to discuss ideas and look at samples. What makes Janelle right and Meri wrong? Is Meri required to be wrong in any transaction? Here is what Janelle could have done: say I though this was the pre-pre decorating meeting, I don't want to look at samples now. Or, My ideas were more like this, or I have some pictures of ideas on my phone. Meri likes visual samples of things and Janelle does not. Neither is wrong or right.

[AZChristian]

To me, "look at samples" would infer googling or something like that - or even going to the craft store together.  Meri already had several centerpieces assembled, and enough supplies to finish all of them.  Those didn't infer "options" to me - they were, "This is what I bought, and this is what we'll use, and this is how we'll use them."

I do think Janelle should have spoken up a bit more, but they're still tip-toeing around each other, and I think she just reverted back to her "don't make waves" standard procedure when dealing with Meri.

You're right, neither is wrong or right, but it would be nice to see some attempt on Meri's part to hop down off the bulldozer.

[VedaPierce]

        
I don't think you should blame your happiness or lack thereof on anybody but yourself. If you are unhappy in your marriage/with your spouse you either change yourself, your expectations or you leave. You don't wait for your spouse to change or start making you happy. If Meri is unhappy, she can ask kody to go with her to therapy, work on the marriage together, or she can  leave the marriage. Like an adult. It's not easy, but big change is never easy. It's not easy to change your weight, change your job, change your life, but if you aren't happy, you and only you are responsible. Not your kids or husband or parents. It's nobody's job to make you happy! Meri choosing to start an emotional affair, intending it to go further, is the wrong choice. Regardless of kody or Robyn or Christine or janelle or whether Mariah went off to college, etc. I'm not buying the excuse that Kody was so awful that Meri had no choice but start professing her love to someone else. Kody is awful, but that's another debate. 

Edited June 3, 2016 by VedaPierce