Black Panther (2018)

[tennisgurl]

6 hours ago, JessePinkman said:

I told my friend after seeing the movie the first time that there will be a Wakanda in one of the parks in the next decade.

Every Imaginer was watching this movie thinking "Oh Christ I am gonna have to build this whole thing in less than a year arent I"? 

I would be first in line.

Edited February 28, 2018 by tennisgurl

[anna0852]

I say they pull out/re-theme Avatar land in Animal Kingdom and slot Wakanda in there. Half of that park is already dedicated to the African continent and wildlife.

[Wynterwolf]

25 minutes ago, anna0852 said:

I say they pull out/re-theme Avatar land in Animal Kingdom and slot Wakanda in there. Half of that park is already dedicated to the African continent and wildlife.

That was my first thought too... 

[JessePinkman]

2 hours ago, anna0852 said:

I say they pull out/re-theme Avatar land in Animal Kingdom and slot Wakanda in there. Half of that park is already dedicated to the African continent and wildlife.

I like the idea (and honestly if Disney had known what BP was going to become they wouldn't have bothered building Avatar land) but setting Wakanda in Animal Kingdom would be the definition of problematique™.

My friend suggested just re-themeing Tomorrowland. My immediate thought when we saw the Vibranium mines was actually Space Mountain.

[Dee]

What to Read After Watching ‘Black Panther’

Quote

The long-anticipated “Black Panther” film debuted in theaters on Feb. 17, and the response from critics and fans has been overwhelmingly positive. The movie earned $387 million in its opening weekend, which makes it the highest-grossing film of all time by a black director. If you want to dive deeper into the world of black comics, here are three books to start you off.

[Joe]

I finally saw the movie today, and really liked it. Not perfect IMO, but pretty good. Funny thing. Beforehand, I was trying to imagine what a European version of the movie would look like, based on the plot I was expecting. I didn't imagine Killmonger's attitude towards slavery and invasion. So you'd have to set it somewhere with a history of getting kicked around, like Ireland or Poland.

But as for the movie I did see, yeah. I can see how it would be so inspiring and empowering. I'm white, there are an almost infinite number of white heros. There are even a large number that I actually like. You get used to it, you build up a resistance. :) But until you get jaded, enjoy the ride!

Killmonger was an interesting villain. He reminded me of Magneto. He has a sound goal, but his methods are too extreme to support.

I don't think the western nations would succeed in destabilising Wakanda. Couple of reasons. Imagine a conversation between an American agent and say, M'Baku. Agent Smith: "Oh yeah, King T'Challa seems like a pretty good guy. Nothing against him. But have you heard about democracy? Choosing your leaders?" M'Baku: "I heard how your democratically chosen vice-president was collaborating with AIM. And how many politicins were Hydra?" Agent Smith: "Uh, I swear we're clean now." "M'Baku: *Gorilla noises.*

Wakanda has all the power in that situation. Not only do they have the resource people want, they have the knowledge and technology to keep it safe. If they stop playing along, who can force them to obey? No other nations in the MCU are at a similar level. Okay, maybe Latveria. But they aren't ones to play by other people's rules either.

[Dee]

‘Black Panther’ To Wave Off ‘Death Wish’ & Eat ‘Red Sparrow’ – Box Office Preview

Quote

Moviegoers will continue to be transfixed by Disney/Marvel’s Black Panther in its third weekend shelling out between $61M-$67M. 

The Ryan Coogler-directed feature will easily stand tall over newcomers 20th Century Fox/Chernin Entertainment’s Red Sparrow and MGM’s Eli Roth reimagination of the 1974 classic Death Wish. 

Black Panther has continually been one about breaking records, and just as analysts estimate a certain level for the comic book adaptation, it sails past them. While too soon to tell, should Black Panther beat this industry range with $68.5M+, it could own the second best third weekend ever, beating Avatar, and ranking under Star Wars: Force Awakens ($90.2M).

In addition, Black Panther is bound to reach $500M by Sunday, a feat accomplished in 17 days, and that would tie with Jurassic World as the third fastest title to that point after Star Wars: Last Jedi (16 days) and Star Wars: The Force Awakens (10 days).

Edited February 28, 2018 by Dee

[ChelseaNH]

Sadly, the boost in black cat adoptions was not a thing.  But it could be!

[HunterHunted]

5 hours ago, Joe said:

Killmonger was an interesting villain. He reminded me of Magneto. He has a sound goal, but his methods are too extreme to support.

Considering Magneto was inspired by Stan Lee's and Jack Kirby's own Jewish identity and Malcolm X, it's not surprising that he and Killmonger would come across very similarly. One of the things that is always true with Magneto's backstory is that he was in a concentration camp as a child. You can see how that would make Magneto very angry and militant. Same thing with Killmonger. 

[benteen]

18 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Considering Magneto was inspired by Stan Lee's and Jack Kirby's own Jewish identity and Malcolm X, it's not surprising that he and Killmonger would come across very similarly. One of the things that is always true with Magneto's backstory is that he was in a concentration camp as a child. You can see how that would make Magneto very angry and militant. Same thing with Killmonger. 

It was actually Chris Claremont, who is also Jewish, that made Magneto Jewish and gave him his Holocaust background.

Edited March 1, 2018 by benteen

[HunterHunted]

I didn't know that, but I don't think I've ever read an X story that predates Claremont. I guess I assumed Magneto's backstory was always that. Oops.

Now back to our regularly scheduled discussion of Black Panther.

[Dandesun]

23 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Every Imaginer was watching this movie thinking "Oh Christ I am gonna have to build this whole thing in less than a year arent I"? 

I would be first in line.

 

I guarantee you the Imagineers are all going 'YESSSSS! Let's do all of this!' It's the engineers that are already suffering sleepless nights over how to implement it. My uncle was an engineer for WED when they were building Epcot and he had tons of stories about figuring out a filtration system or how the air conditioning was going to go when an Imagineer would come in and go 'But how about if we did THIS.... [proceeds to explain a plan that they have to retool everything for.]'

Q: How many Imagineers does it take to change a light bulb?

A: Does it have to be a light bulb?

 

3 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

I didn't know that, but I don't think I've ever read an X story that predates Claremont. I guess I assumed Magneto's backstory was always that. Oops.

Now back to our regularly scheduled discussion of Black Panther.

 

Nah, in the Silver Age, Magneto was all about world domination due to the superiority of mutants blah blah blah typical supervillain blather. Claremont was the one who decided to give him a motivation outside of 'I want to rule the world!! Mwah ha ha ha haaaaa!' And he also really pushed the 'saving a world that hates and fears them' angle as well as the myriad of dystopian futures. Silver Age villains didn't have a lot of nuance, really.

Edited February 28, 2018 by Dandesun

[Kel Varnsen]

Saw it yesterday and it was really cool. Some of the best action sequences I have seen in a long time. That car chase was amazing. I also loved the creative high tech gadgets they had. The carry on spears were really cool. And the design of the buildings in the city worked too like a place that was super high tech but may not completely have access to the same kind of building materials the rest of the world has.

Also I can't believe they killed Zuri. Now we will never get to see him pick a fight with Thor.

On 20/02/2018 at 1:34 AM, Lantern7 said:

Let it be on record that I really, really, REALLY want Achebe. Just have the core concept of an amoral shit-disrupter in there. He wouldn't have to be that oddly ghastly, and I'll understand if Daki doesn't make the leap.

I would love to see Achebe too. I would love to see T'Challa try to deal with someone who is completely unpredictable. The guy from Captain Phillips would be awesome in that role (not Tom Hanks). I would even be ok with the puppet showing up.

On 26/02/2018 at 4:06 AM, Schweedie said:

Michael B Jordan was brilliant (I still can't believe he's Wallace from the Wire all grown up) 

I thought the same thing, and if it wasn't for his great performance i wouldn't have believed it.

[Joe]

Okay, another thought about Killmonger. I wonder if T'Challa took the wrong approach with him. He's lead into the throne room in cuffs, fair enough. Imagine if T'Challa said, "Oh, cut him loose. Hi, I'm your cousin. Good to meet you. I was just about to get a pot of coffee and watch the big game. It's threatening to be one-sided, but could still be fun. Interested?" A combination of surprise and charm, make him feel welcome. I think it would at least be worth a shot.

[anna0852]

That thought had occurred to me too. if T'Challa had greeted Erik as a cousin and had immediately recognized what had been done to him and how awful it was, I wonder how off-kilter that would have made killmonger. It probably wouldn't have dissuaded him but definitely would have put him more off-balance and probably made the rest of the Wakandans even more wary of this outsider.

[Joe]

"You want the throne? You want to be head bureaucrat? If I sit in that chair for too long, it makes my lower back hurt. But I hear that you've lead a life of adventure. Got any good stories?" However, that way leads to less fight scenes. Sometimes I just want a light drama set in an SF universe, rather than a stream of explosions. Still, it is a good movie.

[benteen]

17 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

I didn't know that, but I don't think I've ever read an X story that predates Claremont. I guess I assumed Magneto's backstory was always that. Oops.

Now back to our regularly scheduled discussion of Black Panther.

No worries.  I believe the Malcolm X comparison was actually used by Stan Lee when he created the character.

While I don't think it would have changed anything, it certainly couldn't have hurt T'Challa to have tried a more friendlier track with Erik.

[HunterHunted]

9 hours ago, anna0852 said:

That thought had occurred to me too. if T'Challa had greeted Erik as a cousin and had immediately recognized what had been done to him and how awful it was, I wonder how off-kilter that would have made killmonger. It probably wouldn't have dissuaded him but definitely would have put him more off-balance and probably made the rest of the Wakandans even more wary of this outsider.

I had the same thought about T'Challa greeting Erik. I think the actual difference that it would have made is that it would have made the other tribes less likely to follow Killmonger/N'Jadaka.

T'Challa is fundamentally Wakandan in a way that Killmonger can't be. About a decade ago, my family traveled to my dad's village in Nigeria. Both of my parents are from Nigeria, but my dad has been more actively involved. Anyway...a neighbor who didn't speak English and had never stepped foot outside of the village came up to my siblings and me to ask if we were from Prague. She said "the son of a neighbor moved to Prague. I don't know where Prague is. I don't know what people from Prague look like, but I know you aren't from here." That could have been the council's skepticism of Killmonger.

[romantic idiot]

On 2/28/2018 at 5:50 PM, Joe said:

I finally saw the movie today, and really liked it. Not perfect IMO, but pretty good. Funny thing. Beforehand, I was trying to imagine what a European version of the movie would look like, based on the plot I was expecting. I didn't imagine Killmonger's attitude towards slavery and invasion. So you'd have to set it somewhere with a history of getting kicked around, like Ireland or Poland.

But as for the movie I did see, yeah. I can see how it would be so inspiring and empowering. I'm white, there are an almost infinite number of white heros. There are even a large number that I actually like. You get used to it, you build up a resistance. :) But until you get jaded, enjoy the ride!

Killmonger was an interesting villain. He reminded me of Magneto. He has a sound goal, but his methods are too extreme to support.

I don't think the western nations would succeed in destabilising Wakanda. Couple of reasons. Imagine a conversation between an American agent and say, M'Baku. Agent Smith: "Oh yeah, King T'Challa seems like a pretty good guy. Nothing against him. But have you heard about democracy? Choosing your leaders?" M'Baku: "I heard how your democratically chosen vice-president was collaborating with AIM. And how many politicins were Hydra?" Agent Smith: "Uh, I swear we're clean now." "M'Baku: *Gorilla noises.*

Wakanda has all the power in that situation. Not only do they have the resource people want, they have the knowledge and technology to keep it safe. If they stop playing along, who can force them to obey? No other nations in the MCU are at a similar level. Okay, maybe Latveria. But they aren't ones to play by other people's rules either.

Tell that to Indiaa in the 1700s.

[JessePinkman]

Did anyone see this? He sounds salty.

[Kel Varnsen]

8 hours ago, benteen said:

While I don't think it would have changed anything, it certainly couldn't have hurt T'Challa to have tried a more friendlier track with Erik.

Keep in mind that before that happend Killmonger broke Klaue out of custody, shot up a CIA safehouse and would have killed Nakia had Ross not jumped in front of her. So thinking of that I can see why T'Challa might not have offered a warm Wakandan welcome.

[Dee]

‘Black Panther’ Crushes $763M WW Box Office; $1B Coming Closer Into Its Grasp

Quote

Disney/Marvel’s Black Panther has, with Wednesday figures included, grossed $763.3M global as it barrels towards what looks like an inevitable $1B+ total. That’s aided by the wild domestic performance ($428.7M through yesterday) with the movie looking at another winning North America weekend, as Deadline’s Anthony D’Alessandro has reported. At the international box office, the Ryan Coogler-helmed superhero movie is at $334.6M through Wednesday.

On the domestic front, it’s passed The Lion King, Pirates Of The Caribbean: Dead Man’s Chest and The Hunger Games: Catching Fire to become the No. 17 all-time release to date. Overseas, it’s currently running 38% above Doctor Strange, 15% above Guardians Of The Galaxy Vol 2 and 6% over Thor: Ragnarok. Globally, it’s now topped The Amazing Spider-Man.

On Wednesday, the Wakanda wonder added $8.3M in 55 material international markets, which reps 10% of last weekend’s actual of $85.1M.

Today, the film opens in Japan. This is not a massive Marvel market and BP will likely be the No. 2 movie behind local release Doraemon The Movie: Nobita’s Treasure Island. It isn’t expected to throw off big numbers at opening, though this is a slow-burn hub to watch.

BP will also likely be topped in France this weekend as local hit-maker Dany Boon’s La Ch’tite Famille is out in force with the top opening day of the year yesterday. Weather worthy of Siberia is gusting through much of Western Europe and that could have an overall impact on box office.

BP still has China to come on March 9 and I hear that advance ticket sales in the PROC are on par with Spider-Man: Homecoming which opened to $69M last year. China’s still a wild card, but the overall momentum of this movie is seen pushing it above $1B worldwide — with North American behaving as it is, the Middle Kingdom may not even be the deciding factor in the race to $1B.

Edited March 2, 2018 by Dee

[Joe]

5 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Keep in mind that before that happend Killmonger broke Klaue out of custody, shot up a CIA safehouse and would have killed Nakia had Ross not jumped in front of her. So thinking of that I can see why T'Challa might not have offered a warm Wakandan welcome.

Yeah, that's a good point. Funny the things I remember and forget. I get so wrapped up by one part I forget the lead-in.

[Kel Varnsen]

14 hours ago, Dee said:

‘Black Panther’ Crushes $763M WW Box Office; $1B Coming Closer Into Its Grasp

It is kind of amazing that Black Panther is probably going to be the 2nd biggest movie in the MCU(at least in terms of domestic box office, and at least for a couple of months). If i hadn't seen the movie it would almost be unbelievable, especially considering how unknown the character is. It reminds me of walking out of the theatre when I saw Iron Man in 2008 and talking to my friend about how all it takes is good writing and getting good actors and comic book movies can be great. At the time people thought Iron Man was not a well known character, but Black Panther is probably even more so. Hell I remember reading Black Panthrr volume 3, loving it, but even at the time it was probably the lowest selling monthly title marvel put out.

Plus Black Panther has made more money than the most recent movie starring freaking Batman. It's  crazy.

[TobinAlbers]

On 3/1/2018 at 12:25 AM, anna0852 said:

That thought had occurred to me too. if T'Challa had greeted Erik as a cousin and had immediately recognized what had been done to him and how awful it was, I wonder how off-kilter that would have made killmonger. It probably wouldn't have dissuaded him but definitely would have put him more off-balance and probably made the rest of the Wakandans even more wary of this outsider.

Maybe not greet him as cousin but the fact that T'Challa stepped up to him and whispered 'The only reason why I don't kill you where you stand is because I know the truth about you' is some mixed signals. Not only did he just threaten to kill him but he threatened to kill him knowing that Erik was his cousin and in Erik's mind undoubtedly knowing the story of his father's death. T'Challa showed no empathy or understanding or apology for his father's sins, just dismissal (he wouldn't ask Erik what his name was when prompted, and thus still denying him his place) and hostility.

Then at the combat challenge T'Challa actually says 'We can find another way' which...not really since you've already played the card that you weren't down for any discussion when you had him in chains in the throne room and would not mind seeing him dead but now that he's armed and ready to kill you 'You can find another way'. T'Challa, I love you, but man, bye with that mess.

T'Challa definitely fumbled the official 'first contact' with Erik; I get that at the time he was trying to protect his father's secret and appear to be a transparent strong ruler in front of the tribal council but his hard aggressive stance left him no room to maneuver and just flamed the seething rage Erik was harboring. Not saying that if he had kissed him on both cheeks and said 'Welcome, Cousin!' Erik would've relented considering Erik knew without a doubt that his father was killed by panther claws ripping into his chest, but with all T'Challa had seen Erik do and knowing his background, further provoking him wasn't the best play.

[Perfect Xero]

Finally saw it, loved it. So much to think about but it was amazing to see a movie that lived up to this level of hype.

The one thing I wondered about is that, as far as I can recall, no real reference to Erik's mother beyond telling us that N'Jobu fell in love. Who was she? What was she like? For a movie that uses female characters so well, his mother is a complete afterthought.

I think Shuri may have actually made the new Panther suit too awesome. Completely invulnerable to anything (other than, perhaps, sonic attacks) AND it absorbs energy used against it to be released in a super attack?

Steve: "We have all of the Avengers, Guardians, Dora Milaje, and Sorcerers attacking Thanos, but it still isn't enough!"

Tony: "If only we could somehow concentrate all of our fire power into one single shot, that might do it, but how?"

Shuri: "I have an idea, everyone attack my brother then throw him at the big purple guy so he can release all of the energy in one blast!"

T'Challa: "Wait a minute, I am a king not a smart bomb!"

 

I mentioned this before the movie was released, but I really hope the post-credits scene isn't suggesting that they're going to give Bucky the White Wolf identity going forward. It would be entirely superficial.

[Joe]

I don't know if this was actually said, but I got the impression there was only so much energy he could absorb before the suit overloaded.

[Captain Carrot]

8 hours ago, Perfect Xero said:

The one thing I wondered about is that, as far as I can recall, no real reference to Erik's mother beyond telling us that N'Jobu fell in love.

I can't find it now, but I swear that I saw an interview with Jordan that mentioned Killmonger as having two murdered parents. (Perhaps a line was cut from the movie). Her already being dead in that flashback would help explain why N'Jobu was so willing to betray Wakanda.

[HunterHunted]

I will say that's one of the real failings of the movie--that Killmonger's mother is absent. There is a history of present mothers and missing fathers in the African American community for many reasons. Killmonger's mother could have been like De'Londa Brice, Namond's gorgon of a mother, from the Wire on the negative end or Afeni Shakur, on the more positive end. I would have loved Erika Alexander in the role.

Actually, his mother could have replaced his girlfriend and only strengthened the story, especially if she gives her acquiescence for Killmonger to shoot her when Klaue has her hostage. You would see where Killmonger got his "I'd rather die than surrender" mindset, especially if he only reveals who she is to the audience as he's crying over her dead body. It would be later mirrored in the dora milaje who gives her life when Killmonger has her captured. 

[TobinAlbers]

7 hours ago, Captain Carrot said:

I can't find it now, but I swear that I saw an interview with Jordan that mentioned Killmonger as having two murdered parents. (Perhaps a line was cut from the movie). Her already being dead in that flashback would help explain why N'Jobu was so willing to betray Wakanda.

Ha! I was thinking they wanted to leave the issue of Erik's mother open to possibly revisit in a later movie....in the form of Taraji P Henson but Erika Alexander would be ammmmmaaaaazing. 

Where was she when N'Jobu was killed? My take would be prison on some bullcrap oversentence drug charge or 'domestic terrorism'. Did we know what N'Jobu was planning at the opening of the movie? If it had something to do with getting Erik's mother back (breaking her out and going underground in a vibranium armed rebel cell) that'd doubly explain why he wouldn't just go back to Wakanda. He knew if he left, she'd be left to rot as T'Chaka wouldn't intervene and he'd never be allowed to leave Wakanda.

[HunterHunted]

Or parking her in prison would be a good place if they want to explore Erik in flashback during a sequel. The reason I specifically mentioned Afeni Shakur was because she was a member of the Panther 21. Another inspiration could be John Africa and MOVE. I can see mom as a strong influence in radicalizing N'Jobu. As we've seen from Nakia, War Dogs tend to be slightly more prone to engagement and involvement because they've truly seen the world. I can see how a passionate sexy woman could turn N'Jobu very quickly.

[wanderingstar]

Academics can't stop talking about Black Panther

In the same vein, from Vox: What can Black Panther teach us about international relations

ETA: I am LOVING all the speculation here about Erik's mother. I too was disappointed they only mentioned her fleetingly in the movie. If there was a Killmonger prequel, we could learn more about how his parents, met and fell in love and about his upbringing. Which is my way of saying Yes, I want a Killmonger movie!

Edited March 4, 2018 by Gillian Rosh

[SimoneS]

I have to admit to thinking about Wakanda's future now that the world knows that it is wealthy and technologically advanced because of the vibranium. Not only will countries and corporations be attempted to destabilize Wakanda to get their hands on the vibranium, but there will be an influx of people seeking safe and prosperous lives along with the usual organized crime. After all, Wakanda is a landlocked country surrounded by poor and politically unstable governments. It cannot keep all these people out. How will Wakanda cope and what will be its immigration policy?

Edited March 4, 2018 by SimoneS

[Amethyst]

Finally saw it and it was everything I hoped for and more.  I've been avoiding interviews and clips (saw way too much of that for Thor Ragnarok) so I wanted to be surprised.

Honestly, this was amazing.  I admit, I was prepared to be disappointed, but this film deserves every ounce of hype it gets.  The acting, the scenery, the plot...all of it delivered.  The characterization was on point.  Okoye was straight up insane with her fighting skills.  100% badass.  I had to keep myself in my seat to keep from cheering whenever she showed up.  The girl actually snatched her own wig!

Shuri...what can I say?  Utterly adorable and brilliant.  She fits the little sister to a T.  I can't wait for her to meet Tony.  

Erik is probably the best villain since Loki.  His final words were tragic.  And as awful as his plan was, there some real truth to the logic.  He's witnessed his own share of death and destruction and is ready to dish it out.

What I loved was that no one was completely evil or good.  M'Baku failed in the challenge, but ultimately showed that he had real honor and decency in helping T'Challa.  W'Kabi was willing to put down his sword because he didn't want to fight his beloved.  Even Ross started out as a self serving asshole and ended up helping the Wakandans.  And so on.

If there are any criticisms, I have two.  For one, I thought the romance between T'Challa and Nakia was half baked.  I would have believed them more as people who had just met and liked each other, rather than exes.  And secondly, I thought Erik burning down all the plants was pretty dumb.  What if he had kids someday and would want one of them to become the next Black Panther?

Loved all of this movie, just can't put everything here.  I'm so glad that Black Panther ended up being fantastic, and I look forward to the next one.  Definitely seeing this one again.

[HunterHunted]

9 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I have to admit to thinking about Wakanda's future now that the world knows that it is wealthy and technologically advanced because of the vibranium. Not only will countries and corporations be attempted to destabilize Wakanda to get their hands on the vibranium

My first thought was Margaret Thatcher's odious son, Mark and the Wonga Coup.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Equatorial_Guinea_coup_d'état_attempt?wprov=sfla1

9 hours ago, SimoneS said:

but there will be an influx of people seeking safe and prosperous lives along with the usual organized crime. After all, Wakanda is a landlocked country surrounded by poor and politically unstable governments. It cannot keep all these people out. How will Wakanda cope and what will be its immigration policy?

They've been pretty successful at keeping refugees and crime out. While, they've run a pretty successful disinformation campaign, it's clearly not infallible because Klaue has been sitting on billions of dollars of vibranium for decades. He was known to Tony Stark through arms contacts, HYDRA, and Ultron bought enough vibranium to build an entire body. So the idea that Wakanda has a bunch of vibranium is not completely unknown in criminal circles and still it has only been robbed once and that was with help from N'Jobu.

The real issue is refugees. Wakanda seems to have some sort of energy barrier that prevents physical entry into the country. That seems like a really messed up thing to keep up after telling the world that you are far richer, more advanced, and willing to help. But I can't see how you couldn't keep it up. Every country has a right to protect their borders and secure their sovereignty. I suspect that we'll be seeing a lot more Wakandan relief missions and peace keeping troops in foreign countries in the future.

One weirdly interesting thing that I saw the other day was that when T'Challa is giving his speech at the U.N., the Welsh flag is flying up on the dais. Could be a mistake. Or it could mean that Wales is an independent country in the MCU. Now while not landlocked like Wakanda, an independent Wales is literally a country surrounded by the United Kingdom. There is some speculation that this is to underscore Wakanda's decision to stand apart. Although, it's likely a production mistake.

http://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-43085864

[Dee]

‘Black Panther’ Busts Past Half Billion

Quote

Black Panther will arrive at $500M by the end of today. Early industry morning estimates show the Disney/Marvel movie with a $30.4M Saturday, +84% over Friday’s $16.5M for a weekend that’s around $66.7M, down an awesome 40% and a running cume at $502.1M.  Disney is calling the weekend at $65.7M for a running total of $501.1M. Panther prides shines brightly around the world with $897.7M after an impressive start in Russia with close to $13M for the week ahead of Captain America: Winter Solider and Ant-Man, and being the No. 1 western release over the weekend in Japan with $2.4M.

Black Panther easily became the second-highest grossing Marvel movie at the domestic box office, running over Avengers: Age of Ultron ($459M) and standing behind Avengers ($623M). Black Panther currently owns the third-best third weekend ever at the domestic B.O. behind Star Wars: The Force Awakens ($90.2M) and Avatar ($68.5M) which is still slam-down amazing during an early March when the Northeastern part of the U.S. was snowed under and out of power. Here in U.S./Canada, Imax  drove $4.5M of Black Panther‘s business at 304 auditoriums for a running domestic take that’s $43M or 9% of its domestic ticket sales.

Edited March 4, 2018 by Dee

[Katsullivan]

3 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

My first thought was Margaret Thatcher's odious son, Mark and the Wonga Coup.

A better parallel would the USA/Belgium coup and assassination of Premier Patrice Lumumba of Congo. 

13 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I have to admit to thinking about Wakanda's future now that the world knows that it is wealthy and technologically advanced because of the vibranium. Not only will countries and corporations be attempted to destabilize Wakanda to get their hands on the vibranium, but there will be an influx of people seeking safe and prosperous lives along with the usual organized crime. After all, Wakanda is a landlocked country surrounded by poor and politically unstable governments. It cannot keep all these people out. How will Wakanda cope and what will be its immigration policy?

The bigger problem would be the countries wanting to take Wakanda's power from it. I mean, we only need to look at history to see what happened to Congo:

Black Panther has historical roots in nuclear-age Congo.

Would-be Wakanda: Black Panther and the Congo Paradox.

Searching for Wakanda: The African Roots of the Black Panther Story.

Malcolm X: The Rape of Congo.

Edited March 4, 2018 by Katsullivan

[Lugal]

13 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I have to admit to thinking about Wakanda's future now that the world knows that it is wealthy and technologically advanced because of the vibranium. Not only will countries and corporations be attempted to destabilize Wakanda to get their hands on the vibranium, but there will be an influx of people seeking safe and prosperous lives along with the usual organized crime. After all, Wakanda is a landlocked country surrounded by poor and politically unstable governments. It cannot keep all these people out. How will Wakanda cope and what will be its immigration policy?

It's funny, I've been thinking about this a lot.  Wakanda is a great power, on par if not above the US, China, Russia and the EU, so there isn't much they can do against it since Wakanda is the most technologically advanced nation on earth.  They also have a sophisticated intelligence network (the War Dogs) in every country on earth.  The goal of modern colonialism is to find a pretext into intervene and Wakanada gives them very little, having never been colonized in the first place.  The usual routes are sanctions, which won't work with Wakanda, since they have not interacted with the world and have the vibranium everyone wants.  If anyone wants that vibranium, they come on Wakandan terms.  Next would try to provoke unrest in Wakanda to either topple the government or provoke a crackdown so they can paint T'challa as a tyrant.  That would also be difficult because Wakanda has eliminated poverty and people have no reason to rebel.  The Jabari could be exploited but since they are even more isolationist, it would seem unlikely.  The would would try to paint Wakandan weapons as dangerous and they should accept some kind of oversight, like an inspections regime, but as T'challa said, "I'd like to see them try."  Especially since Earth has suffered two massive alien attacks in the past decade, many people will be glad to know that Wakanda has that kind of hardware.

Wakanda's immigration policy will have to be careful, but if they could help stabilize the surrounding countries, it would go a long way to stop the refugee crisis. As a great power they would have enough clout to do it diplomatically, and that may be the direction that they would go, since T'challa's outreach programs look like they would increase Wakandan soft power.

[HunterHunted]

I considered Patrice Lumumba, but the Wonga Coup was clearly only about destabilizing a government to loot their resources. The efforts to destabilize Congo had political ideologies mixed in it too. That's not to say that Wakanda and T'Challa won't have political beliefs that are opposed to those of other governments but at this point, we don't really know because of Wakanda's political isolation. We know in Civil War they supported the Sokovia Accords, which T'Challa promptly violated tracking down Bucky. And now that T'Challa is opened Wakanda to the world, he may not be in favor of it anymore.

[Katsullivan]

10 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

I considered Patrice Lumumba, but the Wonga Coup was clearly only about destabilizing a government to loot their resources. The efforts to destabilize Congo had political ideologies mixed in it too.

If by "political ideologies", you mean Patrice Lumumba's inauguration speech that Congo resources would be for Congo and no longer allow USA & Belgium free rein to loot Congo's riches? 

[Lugal]

3 hours ago, doram said:

Wakanda has weapons of Mass Destruction. Wakanda is not a democracy. Wakanda is "unstable" - its rules of governance are "primitive" and barely 3 days ago, the King of Wakanda declared World War III.

Honestly, just read this article on Vox for a take on why T'Challa's decision was Disney-ideal but not real-world pragmatic.

And all of those, with the possible exception of the last one, are what the imperialists would say to their own people to justify the blood and treasure spent to attack Wakanda.  There is nothing they could do to force Wakanda to change any of those demands.  It's not like the World Bank/IMF could strangle Wakanda with sanctions, and the US, EU, Russia and China all have numerous ethnic minorities and would be much more vulnerable to destabilization than relatively culturally-unified Wakanda.

I think the article misses a few points.  Since Wakanda is the newest global power, other powers, probably Russia and China, would quickly seek an alliance.  The US/EU would be more reluctant, due to the history of white supremacy and the fact that they have been on top for the past few centuries, and suddenly found themselves dethroned.  The rest of the world, given a pragmatic choice between being under the thumb of the West, verses being under the thumb of Wakanda, would probably choose the latter, especially if T'Challa's outreach programs started gaining ground and making people's lives better.

[SimoneS]

1 hour ago, Lugal said:

And all of those, with the possible exception of the last one, are what the imperialists would say to their own people to justify the blood and treasure spent to attack Wakanda.  There is nothing they could do to force Wakanda to change any of those demands.  It's not like the World Bank/IMF could strangle Wakanda with sanctions, and the US, EU, Russia and China all have numerous ethnic minorities and would be much more vulnerable to destabilization than relatively culturally-unified Wakanda.

It isn't the World Bank or IMF that creates the sanctions. Rather it is the US government that will come up with a pretext for the sanctions against Wakanda and pressure its allies to go along. I think that Wakanda is vulnerable to the destabilization efforts of powerful countries/corporations because it is comprised of four tribes. It wouldn't be difficult to stoke buried resentments and for rivalries to surface. 

 

1 hour ago, Lugal said:

I think the article misses a few points.  Since Wakanda is the newest global power, other powers, probably Russia and China, would quickly seek an alliance.  The US/EU would be more reluctant, due to the history of white supremacy and the fact that they have been on top for the past few centuries, and suddenly found themselves dethroned.  The rest of the world, given a pragmatic choice between being under the thumb of the West, verses being under the thumb of Wakanda, would probably choose the latter, especially if T'Challa's outreach programs started gaining ground and making people's lives better.

Based on historical and current actions of the world's most powerful countries and corporations would never just sit back and let Wakanda keep its wealth and advanced weaponry and technology and become a world power. They will do whatever it takes to destroy Wakanda through sanctions and destabilization efforts. Wakanda's strength is that its king is a superhero and that it has/will have many superhero allies. 

Edited March 4, 2018 by SimoneS

[Lugal]

5 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

It isn't the World Bank or IMF that creates the sanctions. Rather it is the US government that will come up with a pretext for the sanctions against Wakanda and pressure its allies to go along. I think that Wakanda is vulnerable to the destabilization efforts of powerful countries/corporations because it is comprised of four tribes. It wouldn't be difficult to stoke buried resentments and rivalries to surface.

But what could the sanctions do to Wakanda?  They are entirely self-sufficient, and they have the vibranium that everyone else wants.  I think it would be more difficult to destabilize because the four tribes (and even the Jabari) speak the same language and have a common culture and there is no tribe that benefits at the expense of the others.  Wakanda has eliminated poverty and has no underclass.  The ethnic and class differences in the other countries would make it easier for Wakanda to destabilize them if it so chose.  The world's most powerful corporations are not a monolithic block either, and could easily be divided against each other (like the net neutrality debate that pitted powerful corporations like AT&T and Comcast against powerful corporations like Netflix and Amazon).

12 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Based on historical and current actions of the world's most powerful countries and corporations would never just sit back and let Wakanda keep its wealth and advanced weaponry and technology and become a world power. They will do whatever it takes to destroy Wakanda through sanctions and destabilization efforts. Wakanda's strength is that its king is a superhero and that it has/will have many superhero allies. 

I completely agree that they would try destabilization efforts against Wakanda, but I wonder how effective they could be against Wakanda's technological development and intelligence network.  Overthrowing T'challa wouldn't be like overthrowing Allende, Mossedegh or Ghaddafi, it would be more like trying to overthrow Putin or Xi Jinping.  Wakanda already is a world power, they just let the rest of the world know it.

[Kel Varnsen]

9 minutes ago, Lugal said:

But what could the sanctions do to Wakanda?  They are entirely self-sufficient, and they have the vibranium that everyone else wants. 

 

I wonder how self-sufficient they are. If I remember from the comics they would sell small amounts of vibranium and their other tech and that was how they made money. In comics world Wakenda designed the Avenger's Quinjets among other things. But if they are totally isolated how do they get by? I mean one country can't posess every material they would need, especially in the modern world.

Edited March 5, 2018 by Kel Varnsen

[Raja]

55 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I wonder how self-sufficient they are. If I remember from the comics they would sell small amounts of vibranium and their other tech and that was how they made money. In comics world Wakenda designed the Avenger's Quinjets among other things. But if they are totally isolated how do they get by? I mean one country can't posess every material they would need, especially in the modern world.

We have to accept they are self sufficient and always have been. With the border guard/tribes providing enough food they have a hidden technological base behind some kind of Star Tek like cloak. Going forward people and nations beyond Klaue will try to pierce their defenses

[HunterHunted]

1 hour ago, Lugal said:

But what could the sanctions do to Wakanda?  They are entirely self-sufficient, and they have the vibranium that everyone else wants.  I think it would be more difficult to destabilize because the four tribes (and even the Jabari) speak the same language and have a common culture and there is no tribe that benefits at the expense of the others.  Wakanda has eliminated poverty and has no underclass.  The ethnic and class differences in the other countries would make it easier for Wakanda to destabilize them if it so chose.  The world's most powerful corporations are not a monolithic block either, and could easily be divided against each other (like the net neutrality debate that pitted powerful corporations like AT&T and Comcast against powerful corporations like Netflix and Amazon).

I completely agree that they would try destabilization efforts against Wakanda, but I wonder how effective they could be against Wakanda's technological development and intelligence network.  Overthrowing T'challa wouldn't be like overthrowing Allende, Mossedegh or Ghaddafi, it would be more like trying to overthrow Putin or Xi Jinping.  Wakanda already is a world power, they just let the rest of the world know it.

Furthermore, much like the botched efforts in the War on Terror, the rest of the world doesn't understand nearly enough about Wakanda, the cultures, the class differences, the tribal differences, the terrain, or the religion to effectively destabilize the country. We couldn't effectively destabilize these countries in the Levant in the way the US wanted. These are countries the west colonized, helped create, and had been working with for 100 years. The Looming Tower is on Hulu right now. The immense lack of any expertise on anything having to do with Al Qaeda in the CIA and FBI is astounding. Like 9 analysts who spoke arabic.

Wakanda is a cipher. I'm not saying that western governments wouldn't try to destabilize it. They sure would try, but it would be an upward battle. They don't even know the extent of the vibranium resources. They better hope that there are a lot more people like N'Jobu, Erik, and W'Kabi. Right now, the closest thing that they have to an expert is Everett Ross and he barely knows anything.

[anna0852]

Plus at this point the Wakandan's would be on guard for such destabilization manuvers. They just got an up-close lesson with Killmonger and how easily he was able to prey upon W'Kabi and the border tribe.

Edited March 5, 2018 by anna0852

[Silver Raven]

3 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I wonder how self-sufficient they are. If I remember from the comics they would sell small amounts of vibranium and their other tech and that was how they made money. In comics world Wakenda designed the Avenger's Quinjets among other things. But if they are totally isolated how do they get by? I mean one country can't posess every material they would need, especially in the modern world.

Their War Dogs can probably get them whatever they need.

[Perfect Xero]

On 3/3/2018 at 1:58 PM, HunterHunted said:

I will say that's one of the real failings of the movie--that Killmonger's mother is absent. There is a history of present mothers and missing fathers in the African American community for many reasons. Killmonger's mother could have been like De'Londa Brice, Namond's gorgon of a mother, from the Wire on the negative end or Afeni Shakur, on the more positive end. I would have loved Erika Alexander in the role.

Actually, his mother could have replaced his girlfriend and only strengthened the story, especially if she gives her acquiescence for Killmonger to shoot her when Klaue has her hostage. You would see where Killmonger got his "I'd rather die than surrender" mindset, especially if he only reveals who she is to the audience as he's crying over her dead body. It would be later mirrored in the dora milaje who gives her life when Killmonger has her captured. 

I think that Erik killing his girlfriend is one of the most important scenes in the film for his character. You have a black woman being held by a guy who is, basically, the personification of the white colonizer who exploits and uses Africa for his own gains, Erik seemingly promising her that he'll save her, and he shoots her in cold blood to kill Klaue and never spares another thought for her.

If you change that scene so that it's his mother who is giving him the okay to kill her, show him crying over her, that completely changes everything that scene is telling us about Killmonger.

[HunterHunted]

5 minutes ago, Perfect Xero said:

I think that Erik killing his girlfriend is one of the most important scenes in the film for his character. You have a black woman being held by a guy who is, basically, the personification of the white colonizer who exploits and uses Africa for his own gains, Erik seemingly promising her that he'll save her, and he shoots her in cold blood to kill Klaue and never spares another thought for her.

If you change that scene so that it's his mother who is giving him the okay to kill her, show him crying over her, that completely changes everything that scene is telling us about Killmonger.

Maybe he doesn't cry over her. But the stories of mothers who would rather kill their children than have them brought back into slavery and slaves who would rather drown, where ones he was clearly taught as child. I don't really see Mom Stevens' acquiescence to being killed changes so much. If he's raised by a woman who is just as willing to do whatever it takes to achieve their goals, he still comes across just as focused, ruthless, and broken. Both he and his mother were raised in America, which on the surface promises opportunity, but gives nothing to people of color, women, and the poor. And finally when they both had been offered an opportunity in Wakanda, Wakanda's extreme isolationist views took  N'Jobu and that opportunity from Erik and his mom.

To me killing the girlfriend, indicates that he didn't give two shits about her in the first place. And that she certainly wasn't nearly as important as his mission. To me, him killing his mom indicates that the only thing is the mission. His girlfriend isn't really a character who is truly defined in any way other than pretty and dumb enough to trust him. It's implied that Erik's mom was part of what moved N'Jobu away from isolationism. If we saw her along side Erik's vibranium heist, jailbreak of Klaue, and agree to die to complete the mission, we learn a lot more about the type of angry jaded revolutionary environment he was raised in. As it is, his actual childhood is vague as all get out. With no real mention of his mother, you wonder how he stayed out of the foster system. Why he hasn't been bounced from sketchy situation to sketchy situation. Why he isn't a gang banger, a serial killer in the traditional sense, and how he ended up so high achieving. Having his mother there, explains so much of that.