Flip Or Flop - General Discussion

[iMonrey]

Quote

Also, one thing that bugs me about all the flips is they never have a bath tub in the master bedroom.

I can understand a shower in the master, but if there's a second bathroom there should be a tub in it. Two bathrooms and no tub? Stupid. Especially for a family that has little kids. Or a dog!

Quote

For that matter, what is the purpose of a breakfast bar in an open concept home where the dining table is less than a yard away anyway?

Easier to sling the hash over the counter than walk it over to the table, I guess. But it also speaks to this universal need to have "open concept" so you can cook and interact with your guests at the same time. So they can be sitting there on the bar stools at the counter drinking wine while you are fixing the meal. I guess that's a thing? God knows people keep talking about it on House Hunters. 

1.3 million for a 3-bed 2-bath house. Unbelievable.

[dleighg]

My issue with the whole breakfast bar thing is that it often means giving up closed cabinet space. I think that's a terrible trade-off. 

[Gam2]

We have an open breakfast bar on the outside of our kitchen. The other sides of the kitchen are lined, upper and lower, with cabinets and deep drawers, plus a small pantry. We have plenty of room for storage in the kitchen plus kids/guests sitting at the bar having a drink, snack, etc. I really think it depends on how large the kitchen is, how it's layed out and how each family uses their kitchen. Also, my husband and I have dinner at the bar every night when no one else is here. Very convenient!

[chessiegal]

11 minutes ago, Gam2 said:

We have an open breakfast bar on the outside of our kitchen. The other sides of the kitchen are lined, upper and lower, with cabinets and deep drawers, plus a small pantry. We have plenty of room for storage in the kitchen plus kids/guests sitting at the bar having a drink, snack, etc. I really think it depends on how large the kitchen is, how it's layed out and how each family uses their kitchen. Also, my husband and I have dinner at the bar every night when no one else is here. Very convenient!

Our kitchen is the same layout. It's always just the 2 of us, but we eat dinner in front of the TV, except in warmer weather when we spend all evening on the screened-in porch, where we have a lounging area and a table and chairs for dining.

[xtwheeler]

On 3/20/2017 at 0:15 PM, iMonrey said:

I can understand a shower in the master, but if there's a second bathroom there should be a tub in it. Two bathrooms and no tub? Stupid. Especially for a family that has little kids. Or a dog!

Easier to sling the hash over the counter than walk it over to the table, I guess. But it also speaks to this universal need to have "open concept" so you can cook and interact with your guests at the same time. So they can be sitting there on the bar stools at the counter drinking wine while you are fixing the meal. I guess that's a thing? God knows people keep talking about it on House Hunters. 

1.3 million for a 3-bed 2-bath house. Unbelievable.

We too have kitchen seating that we use far more often than our other dining options, and it was well worth the trade off of other storage for us. YMMV, of course. In California, $1.3 for a 3 bedroom, 2 bath house isn't all that out of the ordinary, particularly in a beach community. Our next door neighbors just purchased the "updated" house for $1.5 (bid up from the list of $1.3) and it is a 4/3 if I remember correctly (we are not at the beach).  Eliminating the tub in the master bedroom is super popular here, as well. We are remodeling our house (permits issue this week!) and are not having a bathtub in the master bathroom (though we will be keeping one elsewhere in the house).  We use the tub so infrequently that the expense as well as the limited space in a bathtub compared to the enormous shower we can have in virtually the same footprint was what sold us. Our shower will be about 8'x5' or so if I recall the plans correctly.  Here the trend in eliminating the bathtub from the house altogether is driven by making homes accessible for older buyers rather than younger (or making a house suitable for a family to stay in as parents become empty-nesters and then age). My understanding is that the enormous showers accommodate a kid-bath insert (like a plastic temporary tub you pop in and out each time as you need it and just fill up using the sprayer).  Popping in a plastic kid tub keeps the shower lip low rather than making you step way up and over a tub side, which is difficult for an elderly person.  It is easier to use a plastic tub for the kids for the few years they need a tub than it is to work out a solution for an elderly homeowner who may be unable to step up and over a tub side for 15+ years of home ownership.

[Mu Shu]

On 3/3/2017 at 0:00 AM, ByaNose said:

They did a nice Flip with the Latina Beach condo. It was an easy Flip and the price wasn't totally outrageous for the location & view. I wasn't totally crazy with the kitchen tile. I like the color but not the material. It looked a little Southwest to me. The bathroom did look nice once the extra closet was removed and the glass wall was put in pace. The bedrooms were small and there really wasn't too much you could do to mess them up. I didn't care for the outside color of the house. It looked so drab for the California beach. I would have gone more blue. It didn't have to be neon but a little brighter. I wonder if they ever sold it and for how much? Also, it was great to see Izzy back. He works really well with Tarik & Christina. 

I really didn't get the crowing over the view.  Yes, you saw water, but you were also right on a busy road, so I don't think that view was relaxing.  The houses further up the hill had a much better, unobstructed view, and the road wasn't so distracting.  The big sell was that you had a quarter of a mile shorter walk to the beach?  Nah not buying it.  That location was sort of shitty IMO.  It was cute, but not seven figures cute. 

[suomi]

7 hours ago, xtwheeler said:

Here the trend in eliminating the bathtub from the house altogether is driven by making homes accessible for older buyers rather than younger (or making a house suitable for a family to stay in as parents become empty-nesters and then age). My understanding is that the enormous showers accommodate a kid-bath insert (like a plastic temporary tub you pop in and out each time as you need it and just fill up using the sprayer).  Popping in a plastic kid tub keeps the shower lip low rather than making you step way up and over a tub side, which is difficult for an elderly person.  It is easier to use a plastic tub for the kids for the few years they need a tub than it is to work out a solution for an elderly homeowner who may be unable to step up and over a tub side for 15+ years of home ownership.

I bought a home with 2 bathrooms and one had a recently renovated tile shower with a 10 inch step-over. The other had the original tub/surround and I replaced the tub with a tile shower with a 7 inch step-over. I also went with the taller ADA toilets and single handle faucets in bathrooms/kitchen. The project manager fussed at me along the way but I kept insisting that I wanted what I wanted. What I got is perfect for me and my sister; we are in our 60s. When the time to sell comes, I'm sure there will be no shortage of boomers following along behind me who will appreciate two step-in showers (and no tub to clean!).

[WildPlum]

19 hours ago, xtwheeler said:

 Our shower will be about 8'x5' or so if I recall the plans correctly. 

How open is the shower? Very large showers are VERY drafty and it's easy to get cold while showering, particularly if the shower is open.

[xtwheeler]

15 hours ago, Mu Shu said:

I really didn't get the crowing over the view.  Yes, you saw water, but you were also right on a busy road, so I don't think that view was relaxing.  The houses further up the hill had a much better, unobstructed view, and the road wasn't so distracting.  The big sell was that you had a quarter of a mile shorter walk to the beach?  Nah not buying it.  That location was sort of shitty IMO.  It was cute, but not seven figures cute. 

I think this must be a SoCal/non-SoCal thing. PCH is generally considered an exception to any rule about being on a busy road, and nothing commands a higher premium than that short a walking distance to the beach. Keep in mind houses with addresses right on PCH can run in the ten-figure range quite easily. It is a location that until the polar ice caps melt will never lose value (heck, being that close and slightly up hill might be ocean front with no road in a matter of years!). PCH is also not a "busy road" in terms of commute, necessarily. It is busier weekends (when homeowner just walks to the beach). The native Angeleno in me would live in a trailer on that dirt. 

24 minutes ago, WildPlum said:

How open is the shower? Very large showers are VERY drafty and it's easy to get cold while showering, particularly if the shower is open.

Three walls are fully enclosed and the fourth wall (one of the longer ones) is about half enclosed if I'm picturing the plans correctly. The architect brought it up during design, but I can't remember what he added to address that. We're putting in heated floors, so that should help. 

What is it that they seem to keep getting wrong on these higher end flips? They seem to have a real sweet spot in the lower to middle range ones (for their areas) but man, those higher end ones seem to kick their asses. The one (in Cypress, maybe?) where they added the pool with the dinosaur bones was gorgeous (I saved it to show my husband I loved it so  much, but they struggled to sell that. Why do you think that is? Do those buyers want to pick out their own high end finishes? Do they not go high end enough? I can't figure it out! 

[topanga]

Are you going to watch the Las Vegas show? The wife is a another blond. But so far the couple seems...eh. Maybe I'm still grieving Tarik and Christina and can't love anyone else just yet. 

[suomi]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/celebrity/‘flip-or-flop’-star-christina-el-moussa-blasted-for-‘completely-inappropriate’-mother-daughter-bikini-photo/ar-BByEtCh?li=BBnb4R7

[doodlebug]

I don't necessarily think posting a picture of her kid in a bikini is all that bad, but what exactly was the point?  Apparently, Christina is being paid to plug this line of swimsuits, but why are they posing in an elevator? Or is it a basement?  I don't understand the setting, why would they be wearing swimwear indoors away from water?  And, what does the dog have to do with it?  Also not certain how Christina could swim in a bikini whose straps hang over her upper arms.  I also agree with the poster who wondered what kind of idiot would pay 90 bucks for a swimsuit for a kid?  Finally, the suits are not particularly attractive, they look kinda flimsy and cheap; if this photo is supposed to make someone want to buy them, it's a great big fail.

So many  questions, so little sense.

[iMonrey]

I've never heard of the area where they flipped this latest house. It sounded like they were over-priced for the area but apparently they sold it at list price so who knows. Impressive interior work but I thought the exterior looked really blah. Way too boxy and plain looking - almost industrial.

[iMonrey]

Quote

I don't necessarily think posting a picture of her kid in a bikini is all that bad, but what exactly was the point? 

$$$

Making bad mother choices? Honestly - people get so bent out of shape when kids are involved.

[ByaNose]

39 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I've never heard of the area where they flipped this latest house. It sounded like they were over-priced for the area but apparently they sold it at list price so who knows. Impressive interior work but I thought the exterior looked really blah. Way too boxy and plain looking - almost industrial.

I didn't like the outside either. It looked too flat. I know the front of the house is supposed to be flat but I think it needed shutters. The color was kind of drab, too. I agree that the inside was nice but it did have a bowling alley affect when they removed the wall from the kitchen. It seemed really long. Also, I thought the sea glass color backsplash was very pretty. It was a nice change from the usual white.

[my3sons]

I've only recently started watching the show.  Yeah, I live under a rock:)  All the episodes I've seen are similar.  T makes an offer and the seller thinks it's too low and will get back with him later.  Every kitchen is done with white cabinets.  There's nothing wrong with that -- I love a white kitchen -- but is any other color ever used for the cabinets?  When C wants to do something, especially expense, T is opposed, but then agrees to it almost immediately.

The following might have been addressed earlier but I haven't had time to read all the previous pages.  Does C has a speech impediment?  A lisp?  I notice it when she says words that have an 's'.

[WildPlum]

23 hours ago, xtwheeler said:

What is it that they seem to keep getting wrong on these higher end flips? They seem to have a real sweet spot in the lower to middle range ones (for their areas) but man, those higher end ones seem to kick their asses. The one (in Cypress, maybe?) where they added the pool with the dinosaur bones was gorgeous (I saved it to show my husband I loved it so  much, but they struggled to sell that. Why do you think that is? Do those buyers want to pick out their own high end finishes? Do they not go high end enough? I can't figure it out! 

It is a pretty simple problem - they pay too much and spend too much flipping. The houses in the high-value areas go for a lot because it is the land, not the house, that holds the value. The expectation, in a lot of cases, is that someone will buy the property, tear it down and build the most expensive house in the neighborhood.

If you look at the high dollar flips they have done, the percentage return is quite low - they rarely include the time value of money in their cost estimates, but I doubt they are actually paying cash for the houses (even if they say they are). Some portion of that price is financed, whether traditional mortgage or investor backing, and they owe a ROI.

Edited March 24, 2017 by WildPlum

[iMonrey]

It's also the fact that the more expensive the house, the fewer people are able to afford it. Houses in the middle range of $500k or so are going to get snapped up very quickly, even fought over in bidding wars. Homes over a million are going to sit on the market for awhile. I noticed very early on they tend to make more profit on smaller, less expensive homes than million dollar homes. They should probably stick to those but they probably invest in million dollar homes just for the sake of the TV show to do something different.

[meep.meep]

On 3/23/2017 at 10:59 AM, xtwheeler said:

 

What is it that they seem to keep getting wrong on these higher end flips? They seem to have a real sweet spot in the lower to middle range ones (for their areas) but man, those higher end ones seem to kick their asses. The one (in Cypress, maybe?) where they added the pool with the dinosaur bones was gorgeous (I saved it to show my husband I loved it so  much, but they struggled to sell that. Why do you think that is? Do those buyers want to pick out their own high end finishes? Do they not go high end enough? I can't figure it out! 

Their methods are optimized for low to middle of the pack homes.  For example, they repeat the use of tile frequently.  They will use the same tile in the kitchen back splash and on the fireplace.  If you are spending more than $1M on a home, you want to think that everything has been carefully selected to be the best option for that home.  Tarek and Christina's approach leaves you thinking that they got a quantity discount on the tile and wanted to use it everywhere they could.

And I think the number of people who would want a dinosaur bone feature in their swimming pool is very limited.  In Tarek and Christina-speak:  it's too specific.

1 hour ago, my3sons said:

I've only recently started watching the show.  Yeah, I live under a rock:)  All the episodes I've seen are similar.  T makes an offer and the seller thinks it's too low and will get back with him later.  Every kitchen is done with white cabinets.  There's nothing wrong with that -- I love a white kitchen -- but is any other color ever used for the cabinets?  When C wants to do something, especially expense, T is opposed, but then agrees to it almost immediately.

You have missed a whole bunch of episodes where they do everything in a "real pretty gray."  

There's also a great early episode where they paint the outside of a house the wrong color.  It's Spanish style and starts out yellow stucco, then they paint it brown which is spectacularly horrible, and they repaint it a medium cream.

[WildPlum]

Lol, I happen to LIKE gray and was planning my upcoming bath remodel in gray and white, but this showed has pretty much soured me on the idea....

Also, it used to be dark wood cabinets and dark wood-look floors, the "basic aesthetic" of their flips has changed over time.

 

And I know I have whined about this before, but their prices are unreal and reflect a massive discount on labor and materials. They walk into a kitchen, decide to do all-new cabinets, counter tops and floor and say "ohh, 8 grand." Huh, NO, the cabinet materials alone will likely around that, even if you buy the RTA cra stuff from China and the labor to set tile is usually double to triple the tile price (assuming you use reasonably-priced tile, I once pined over a tile from  http://prattandlarson.com/      that was more than $26 a 6x6" tile...)                  

[meep.meep]

I like gray too, but I've never really thought one gray was prettier than another.  They also now use a lot more marble and marble-like materials and gray usually goes well with those.

[camom]

I'm wondering why she didn't bother to brush her daughter's hair.  (There's another bikini photo shoot picture out there where it really looks like it hasn't been brushed in days.)

[xtwheeler]

12 hours ago, meep.meep said:

Their methods are optimized for low to middle of the pack homes.  For example, they repeat the use of tile frequently.  They will use the same tile in the kitchen back splash and on the fireplace.  If you are spending more than $1M on a home, you want to think that everything has been carefully selected to be the best option for that home.  Tarek and Christina's approach leaves you thinking that they got a quantity discount on the tile and wanted to use it everywhere they could.

And I think the number of people who would want a dinosaur bone feature in their swimming pool is very limited.  In Tarek and Christina-speak:  it's too specific.

 

As to the first, I would agree if this were in Peoria, but in Southern California, as in my neck of the woods, $1 million is a pretty run of the mill house (as galling as that is). Remember the Whittier house with the $18k (ballpark) wrought iron door? That's just an average house in an average neighborhood in SoCal. Few $1mil houses are all custom in those neighborhoods, so I'm wondering what they're doing wrong. Even most million dollar flips in those neighborhoods are "flipper grade" finishes. 

I thought the dino in the pool was cool because they specifically geared the house toward a larger family with kids (though Christina's "I feel like buyers in this neighborhood want..." is often glorified bullshit, I think). 

[Snappy]

I have this on as background while doing something else, and have to say, all the "potential buyers" comments couldn't sound more scripted. First, they are the same exact words as either C or T stated earlier, and second, the delivery is very wooden. I find this show akin to passing a car accident. You want to look away but you can't.

[answerphone]

Really, has anyone ever purchased a home because the little soap and shampoo niche in the shower was 'awesome'? 

[magicdog]

1 hour ago, answerphone said:

Really, has anyone ever purchased a home because the little soap and shampoo niche in the shower was 'awesome'? 

I'd be happy to have a niche at all!   The place I'm living in now doesn't have so much as a shelf or soap dish.   The prior residents kept their toiletries on the floor.  I opted for a rack hanging from the shower head.

[Rylee]

11 hours ago, Snappy said:

I have this on as background while doing something else, and have to say, all the "potential buyers" comments couldn't sound more scripted. First, they are the same exact words as either C or T stated earlier, and second, the delivery is very wooden. I find this show akin to passing a car accident. You want to look away but you can't.

My favorite is when a mother asks her young daughter what she thinks of the kitchen, (usually white and gray) and the child replies, "These colors really make it pop!" Or when a 10 year old boy says... "I like how they carried the same tile and counters from the kitchen and the fireplace into this master bath." 

[suomi]

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/christina-el-moussa-is-dating-hockey-player-nate-thompson-w473661

[Sam215]

22 hours ago, answerphone said:

Really, has anyone ever purchased a home because the little soap and shampoo niche in the shower was 'awesome'? 

No, but we chose our current home over another because this home has the kitchen garbage built into a pull out cabinet and is not out in sight.  Crazy but you never know what that tipping point will be.  

[mojito]

The El Monte House

* They spent $310 on that crappy wood house and banked a profit that was higher than the original house would've sold for in most of America. On Texas Flip 'N Move, I would imagine the home (just the home, of course) being sold for maybe $1300. What a dump.

* Someone was actually living there before they bought it.

* There was no mention of termite or water damage. How could that be?

* The city made T&C remove 4 large trees and replace them with mature trees. The old trees were deemed dangerous but the city seemed to wait for the new owners to make the change. They'd upgraded city standards and maybe the original owners were grandfathered in, or it took a new inspection to take note of the trees, but as the buyer, that would've felt so unfair to me. 

Something I've always wondered about Tarek and Christina. Often they put on new roofs and remove windows but I don't recall their installing skylights in homes. Skylights seem like a no-brainer to me to brighten up some of these homes and I live in an area where we sometimes have hail storms and we still like skylights.

Something else.... there are a lot of homes in CA that are set up as multi-tenant flop houses, many with illegal additions. How do they get away with this in an area where real estate is at a premium? I'm no real estate expert. It just seems that developers would throw their weight around and squeeze out the slum lords. Also....has the foreclosure market dried up completely since 2011 when this show started? Gone are the auctions. Is it ridiculously hard to find homes to flip homes in CA nowadays? Have the kinds of neighborhoods that T&C flip in changed a lot?

[vesperholly]

On 3/24/2017 at 3:11 PM, WildPlum said:

Also, it used to be dark wood cabinets and dark wood-look floors, the "basic aesthetic" of their flips has changed over time.        

I like watching the S1/2 episodes where everything was dark cabinets and very stone-y granite counters - so different from ubiquitous white shaker cabinets and subway or Moroccan-shaped tile!

It would do the show some good to break a little away from the uber-formulaic setup. The beginning negotiations with the seller and the "that's too expensive!" debate when Christina picks materials are particularly irritating.

[doodlebug]

7 hours ago, mojito said:

The El Monte House

* They spent $310 on that crappy wood house and banked a profit that was higher than the original house would've sold for in most of America. On Texas Flip 'N Move, I would imagine the home (just the home, of course) being sold for maybe $1300. What a dump.

* Someone was actually living there before they bought it.

* There was no mention of termite or water damage. How could that be?

* The city made T&C remove 4 large trees and replace them with mature trees. The old trees were deemed dangerous but the city seemed to wait for the new owners to make the change. They'd upgraded city standards and maybe the original owners were grandfathered in, or it took a new inspection to take note of the trees, but as the buyer, that would've felt so unfair to me. 

Something I've always wondered about Tarek and Christina. Often they put on new roofs and remove windows but I don't recall their installing skylights in homes. Skylights seem like a no-brainer to me to brighten up some of these homes and I live in an area where we sometimes have hail storms and we still like skylights.

Something else.... there are a lot of homes in CA that are set up as multi-tenant flop houses, many with illegal additions. How do they get away with this in an area where real estate is at a premium? I'm no real estate expert. It just seems that developers would throw their weight around and squeeze out the slum lords. Also....has the foreclosure market dried up completely since 2011 when this show started? Gone are the auctions. Is it ridiculously hard to find homes to flip homes in CA nowadays? Have the kinds of neighborhoods that T&C flip in changed a lot?

As far as the trees go, a lot of cities don't have the personnel to inspect every property regularly.  Their best chance to catch stuff is with point of sale inspections or when permits are pulled for renovations.  I live in the Midwest where home prices are much more reasonable, but, as a buyer or when renovating, I know the city can step in and inspect and I will be forced to meet the current standards at my expense.  A good pre-sale inspection and a competent contractor for renovations will bring these issues out in the open so the new owner isn't broadsided. 

As far as the illegal additions and other weird stuff, I think it is because real estate in California is so ridiculously expensive that stuff like that happens.  People buy homes and, because they're paying a premium price, they don't have a lot of spare cash to do renovations in a legal/standard way so they either do themselves in sloppy fashion or they hire someone shady who doesn't bother getting permits because he/she isn't going to do the work to code in order to save a buck.  Then, as families grow and circumstances change, they don't have the money to purchase a bigger home, so they do odd renovations to their existing home to allow for more people to live there.  People in the Midwest don't usually need to turn their garage into a studio apartment and rent it out to pay their mortgage; it appears quite a few Californians do.

Skylights cost a fair amount of money and are frequently prone to leaking.  I think Tarek and Christina probably don't find that they increase the value of the property enough to make them worthwhile.  Everything they do is based on whether it will give them a return on the investment.  If they were going to live there themselves, maybe they would want skylights.

[suomi]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/celebrity/flip-or-flops-christina-el-moussa-looks-almost-unrecognizable-in-glamorous-new-photo/ar-BByP7ht?li=BBnb4R7

[WildPlum]

Permits are an odd thing. I'd like to do some hallway work in my daylight basement, but I know that the stairs, built in 1955, don't meet code (too narrow and too steep). If I changed the area at the foot at the stairs, the city would very likely make me upgrade my stairs to modern code (even though the work I would be doing doesn't involve the stairs, but it is NEAR the stairs), and it can't be done without completely reworking the entire southern section of the house and I'd likely loose about 1/3-1/2 of my living room. So the permits I have gotten are for things that stay far away from the area.

 

As far as the trees - since the stated reasons were that two of the trees were dying (which they clearly were) and that the roots were invading the city services (water, sewer), you'd think that the city would require the new mature trees to be from a list of trees with certain types of roots. Crepe myrtle roots aren't considered invasive - I didn't get a good enough look at the other trees to tell what it was.

Edited March 27, 2017 by WildPlum
added

[mojito]

From the looks of some of the homes I saw, many looked more like flophouses than family homes, as though someone was merely renting out (or sub-letting) rooms to individuals. I'd be surprised to learn that the homeowner lived in these pseudo-dormitories. 

Edited March 27, 2017 by mojito

[okerry]

woah! Looks like HGTV has replaced Tarek and Christina! http://www.hgtv.com/shows/flip-or-flop-vegas/meet-aubrey-and-bristol-marunde-pictures

[Finagler]

my brother is on a limited income and rents HALF a room for $400 per month in Glendora CA.  The house was a 3 bedroom 1.5 bath and about 1400 sf.  The owner lives there and rents out space- there are 8 people living in this tiny place.  She even divided up the 2 car garage.  The people that live there are not the cleanest- my brother included.  ugh.  

Edited March 28, 2017 by Finagler

[SanDiegoInExile]

There are at least 4 other spinoffs to come.

Atlanta....Texas....Nashville....Chicago

http://www.bizjournals.com/losangeles/news/2017/03/03/hgtv-planning-flip-or-flop-spinoffs.html

[Honey]

A huge shower should have 2 shower heads.  Whenever you shower with someone, one person is always cold, waiting to get back under the water.

What I don't understand about unpermitted structures, is that the previous owner is allowed to sell the house with those structures, so why must T & C tear them down to sell it.

[okerry]

wowwwww . . . I guess that'll teach 'em how easily replaced they really are! And this time HGTV's got reserves in case somebody else messes up their life and show, lol!

[Bastet]

5 hours ago, Honey said:

What I don't understand about unpermitted structures, is that the previous owner is allowed to sell the house with those structures, so why must T & C tear them down to sell it.

The issue isn't that the work done by the prior owners wasn't done with permits, it's that it wasn't done to code, and the issue is not that Tarek and Christina are going to sell the property, it's that they are pulling permits for the work they're doing. 

You can easily sell a home where the work was done without permits being pulled (you just disclose that) if the work was done right.  There are no city inspectors involved in the sale; the buyer's home inspector will see that the work was done properly and it won't be an issue.  (If it wasn't done right, the lack of permits still won't be an issue, because, again, the city isn't involved.  The home inspector will tell the prospective buyer something is improper, and the buyer will demand the seller either fix it or lower the cost.)

Once Tarek and Christina go to pull permits for their renovation, that's when the city gets involved, so T&C will also be on the hook for correcting things that weren't done to code, or that were done to code at the time but are now, because of changed regulations, in need of alteration, because the city has them over a barrel -- they can't get permits for what they want to do unless they correct the other stuff.  Want new windows?  Great, here are the permits for those - once we check for smoke detectors and carbon monoxide detectors, and, oh, by the way, you have to replace all old faucets with ones that meet the new low-flow standards, regardless of the fact you're just doing windows, not anything about the plumbing.

[mojito]

Quote

The house was a 3 bedroom 1.5 bath and about 1400 sf.  The owner lives there and rents out space- there are 8 people living in this tiny place.  She even divided up the 2 car garage.  The people that live there are not the cleanest- my brother included. 

Thanks for confirming my suspicions. Can't imagine that an owner would allow his home to go downhill like that when the cost of real estate is so high. I wonder what makes a home owner finally decide to sell? Too many problems with leasers? Too many complaints from the neighbors (I would imagine that there could be several cars at once residence, cluttering up a street). Too good an offer from a developer? Getting busted for nefarious activity on the premises? 

Half a room for $400. Good money, but I can't see sharing that full bath will those other people. [shudder]

Does anyone else wish these flipping shows would zoom out to a long shot of the neighborhood? When I see someone buy a ratty house, I wonder if it's one ratty house among many others. 

[ByaNose]

Possibly cancelled?

http://www.tvguide.com/news/flip-or-flop-canceled-season-7/

or not,

http://www.tmz.com/2017/03/29/christina-tarek-el-moussa-pushing-for-season-8-flip-or-flop/

Edited March 29, 2017 by ByaNose

[doodlebug]

I think the difference between the two articles is perspective.  Of course, Tarek and Christina want to continue the show.  By all accounts, their business was struggling prior to its debut; the show was a godsend and they've reaped big rewards from it.  I am skeptical, however, of reports that Tarek and Christina 'welcome' and encourage the other 'flip or flop' versions because it will help them.  I think they know as well as we do that these other shows are auditioning to replace them and they are, if nothing else, worried that the addition of other versions of the show will dilute their visibility.  I also seriously doubt that Christina isn't making plans to market another show for herself if this one doesn't work out.  She clearly loves the spotlight and she has to know that her current gig is in jeopardy; she'd have to be a fool to not have a backup plan in the works.  However, based on what I've seen of the show, I doubt Christina has a background in interior design or, if she does, it doesn't look to me like she's all that talented.  Watching an amateur decorate homes using the same colors and treatments time and again is not going to fly, IMO.  As photos of her own home have shown, she is 'obsessed' with shiny black and gray stuff.  Her entire home is covered with it and she doesn't seem to have any other tricks up her sleeve.

[xtwheeler]

On 3/27/2017 at 9:41 AM, WildPlum said:

Permits are an odd thing. I'd like to do some hallway work in my daylight basement, but I know that the stairs, built in 1955, don't meet code (too narrow and too steep). If I changed the area at the foot at the stairs, the city would very likely make me upgrade my stairs to modern code (even though the work I would be doing doesn't involve the stairs, but it is NEAR the stairs), and it can't be done without completely reworking the entire southern section of the house and I'd likely loose about 1/3-1/2 of my living room. So the permits I have gotten are for things that stay far away from the area.

Our permits here are even crazier (NorCal) - - if you pull a permit to do any work involving plumbing (replacing or adding fixtures even) then EVERY fixture in the home must be upgraded to current code. So if you're just redoing your powder room and pull a permit for that, final inspection will require that every single toilet, shower, bath tub, and faucet in the house meets the new low-flow code requirements. So your $2k powder room "refresh" becomes a $10k plumbing fixture overhaul--and that's assuming that when you're replacing all those fixtures you don't uncover some other issue to be addressed. The practical effect, of course, is that people are simply doing the work without permits to avoid having to upgrade every fixture. 

One other thing T&C run into sometimes is when they have a converted space like a garage converted into a bonus room when they purchased it that didn't count towards their square footage. If they want to be able to count it as an official room and add the square footage to their total when selling, it has to be brought up to current code. 

[Zoe]

On 3/24/2017 at 4:32 AM, suomi said:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/celebrity/‘flip-or-flop’-star-christina-el-moussa-blasted-for-‘completely-inappropriate’-mother-daughter-bikini-photo/ar-BByEtCh?li=BBnb4R7

I thought this was gonna be about that picture where Taylor's bottoms are practically falling off.

[Casually Observant]

5 hours ago, doodlebug said:

I think the difference between the two articles is perspective.  Of course, Tarek and Christina want to continue the show.  By all accounts, their business was struggling prior to its debut; the show was a godsend and they've reaped big rewards from it.  

Last year, I read some article that said that the TV show only shows a few of their flips and that they do about 100 per year.  They must have massive financial backing to be able to buy for cash and pay cash for the renos on 8 houses simultaneously per month with an average rehab & sell time frame of 3-4 months, which means 24-32 homes in the works at any one time.  Gadzooks! That's a lot of money being used at one time. And, clearly their profit is massive ranging from 40k - 120k per home. (Basic math suggests that their profit per year is somewhere around $4-10 million++ just for the house flipping.) 

Let's not  forget the income from the show, re-run residuals and their fees for speaking and signing autographs at house flipping seminars where you have to pay to learn 'tips' from them.  If they lost the show, they'd still have their residuals and the flip business to keep them in buckets of money.  

Edited March 29, 2017 by Casually Observant
typo

[captain1]

As I've said before, I think probably most of those flips are "garden variety" where the homes are not disasters and the flips are cosmetic - put a few thousand dollars in, make a few thousand and move on.

[txvoodoo]

On 3/20/2017 at 4:49 PM, chessiegal said:

Our kitchen is the same layout. It's always just the 2 of us, but we eat dinner in front of the TV, except in warmer weather when we spend all evening on the screened-in porch, where we have a lounging area and a table and chairs for dining.

We had a empty half wall in our kitchen that separated it from the stairs to the basement. Turned it into a penisula/breakfast bar thingie with storage underneath and stools. I use that all the time. But we don't even have a dining table up - it's just the 2 of us, too, and we'll either eat at the peninsula or the living room. 

 

On 3/25/2017 at 9:23 AM, answerphone said:

Really, has anyone ever purchased a home because the little soap and shampoo niche in the shower was 'awesome'? 

But she's *obsessed* with them! :D :D 

[meep.meep]

The shower ledge is one thing that I always like about their designs.  That and they never put in pedestal sinks - they always provide drawers and storage in the bathroom.