S06.E05: The Door

[GrailKing]

1 hour ago, MarySNJ said:

A while back, there was a fan theory over on Westeros.org that the COTF created the White Walker. I didn't like the theory, but it seems whoever figured it out was good at picking up on clues in the text. 

I guess if beta-White Walker was pissed about having a giant chunk of dragon glass shoved into his chest, he might hold a grudge against the COTF and not just the other living men. 

Actually goes back a few years

 

look up the Heresy threads

Edited May 23, 2016 by GrailKing
spelling

[MarySNJ]

Just now, GrailKing said:

Actually goes back a few years

  Hide contents

look up the hearsay threads

Yeah, that sounds about right. I gave up on the 

Spoiler

hearsay threads

a long time ago. 

[MrWhyt]

1 hour ago, Brn2bwild said:

I was really annoyed that she was just willing to disregard the fresh Vale troops available to her.  Kick Littlefinger to the curb if you must, but don't scoff at the army, which would be loyal to your cousin.  I thought Brienne would mention that Stannis lost the battle of Winterfell because he was undermanned.  

And the cousin is loyal to Littlefinger

[Fishslap]

This was definitely a highlight of season 6 so far. They managed to explain Hodor and kill him off at the same time in a magnificent way, after I had been skeptical about the story telling in the first four episodes. He's like Ned Stark: once his function in the story was over they got rid of him. Ned's role was to be a stupid idiot who got manipulated into starting a major war and Hodor's to die protecting Bran. I wish I knew why it was so important to save Bran though. Right now he's an arctic hippie who has acid flashbacks and needs help to do everything. Whatever his function is it had better be something grand after this I think. I don't get why some people seem more upset by wolves dying than people on this show here. Weird stuff. Anyway, they are literary devices with no lines and I would not be the least bit surprised if Jon and Arya are the only ones left alive at the end of everything, now that their wolves are the only ones still alive. It might even be just Jon. We haven't seen Arya's wolf since season 1.

As for the Layer of Eggs and Queen of Tedium I have been struggling to even watch those parts of the show for several seasons already. Not-Mongolian soft porn just isn't for me I guess. They should never have killed off Viserys is my analysis. Until they moved Tyrion and Varys there to salvage the eastern non-story he was the only interesting character there in my opinion. Just cross the sea or be quiet please. Oh and please land in Dorn to squash the fake accent feminist revolution there. I still haven't gotten over the Bad Pussy line from last season.

[Brn2bwild]

1 minute ago, MrWhyt said:

And the cousin is loyal to Littlefinger

She doesn't know that, though.  She does know that Littlefinger killed his mother.

[benteen]

1 minute ago, MrWhyt said:

And the cousin is loyal to Littlefinger

Yeah, getting Littlefinger involved might lead to a situation where his troops betray Jon's troops.

I wonder if Wun Wun is heading down to Winterfell with Jon.

I like that Jon is getting Stannis's storyline of trying to win Northern support.

[RedheadZombie]

All of this blaming of Bran for Hodor's death.  Before Bran warged into Hodor, Hodor was sitting there doing nothing.  So he would have died if Bran hadn't warged into him.  And when he was at the door, Meera was the one screaming to hold the door.  Isn't Bran pretty much out of it after he wargs into Hodor?  It seemed like he wasn't even aware of what was happening.

[Conan Troutman]

2 minutes ago, Unknown poster said:

I don't know about Jorah heading to Valaria. I don't think you look for a cure in the place where literally NOONE is cured. Besides, Dany's band has no idea what's going on at the Wall, or beyond it. I don't have any idea where he goes from here, but I can't believe it's the end for him. Maybe he heads to Quarth and seeks out Quaithe? She seemed to have a lot of information, and it would be in keeping with this years theme of "Hey! Remember this character from several seasons ago?" (Balon, Blackfish, etc.)

I'm not sure we should take the cure thing too seriously. They probably both know it's bullshit, Dany just couldn't say goodbye and Jorah just went along with it. 

2 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

Actually goes back a few years

  Reveal hidden contents

look up the hearsay threads

Nice job, autocorrect...

Yeah, that was one of the theories I always thought had a good chance of being correct. It did cause contradictions with some of the other theories I thought were plausible, at least we can scrap some of them now and work from there. But that's for the speculation thread. 

[screamin]

3 minutes ago, Brn2bwild said:

She doesn't know that, though.  She does know that Littlefinger killed his mother.

She does know that her cousin is highly unlikely to figure out on his own that LF did this.

[benteen]

Well, the hold thing started because Bran was looking into the weirwood when he shouldn't have.  Though in fairness, Bloodraven really could have warned him about the whole White Walker thing.

[KaleyFirefly]

55 minutes ago, that one guy said:

Not to mention Zombie Hodor.

OMG no. Just no. Don't do that to us, show.

[Brn2bwild]

1 minute ago, screamin said:

She does know that her cousin is highly unlikely to figure out on his own that LF did this.

She also doesn't know that Robert/Robin has become so devoted to Littlefinger he wouldn't care about her plight.  It's more difficult to tell in the show, but in the books, he seemed more devoted to Sansa than to Littlefinger. 

[MrWhyt]

7 minutes ago, Brn2bwild said:

She doesn't know that, though.  She does know that Littlefinger killed his mother.

she knows he's simple minded and easily led, she spent enough time with him (at least if i not conflating too much book stuff with show stuff(

[Shimmergloom]

1 hour ago, screamin said:

This is incontrovertible. But it is also undeniable that Bran could not have been thrown off a tower by Jaime had he not climbed a freakin' forbidden tower to be thrown off of it in the first place. Yes, the adults who ordered him not to climb the tower were afraid of loose, slippery rocks causing a fall, not an incestuous Lannister. But the fact remains that Bran mulishly ignored a warning not to do something dangerous.

Whenever we go down the road to blame for everything that happened, there's always something else that happened that trumps it.  You can say that none of this would have happened if Bran listened to Cat and not climbed the towers.  But then none of this would have happened if Jamie and Cersei had not been up there committing incest.  Or if Littlefinger and Lyssa had not killed Jon Arryn.  Or if Robert hadn't rebelled. Or if Brandon and Rickard Stark had not gone to King's Landing and accused Rhaegar of kidnapping Lyannna.  Or if Lyanna and Rhaegar had just been honest about what was happening so that people couldn't jump to the conclusion that she was kidnapped.  Or if the Targs had never invaded Westeros.  Or if the Children of the Forest had not created the White Walkers.  Or if the First Men hadn't started a war with the Children.  And on and on.

[polyhymnia]

I think that was the first time we've ever seen Varys genuinely shaken in public.  Conleth did a great job with that scene.

Good on Sansa for not giving Petyr an inch.  I think she wants Jon to trust her plus she doesn't entirely trust Davos and Melisandre.  Smart to keep the Vale situation to herself.

Hodor?  Hodor.  I cried. That was well done and devastating. 

[Knuckles]

Have Hodor and Summer now become part of the army of the dead? Oh please no, let them both have their heroic deaths, if you must, but do not further degrade them.  Listen, D&D, we can find you...watch yourselves.

[Fishslap]

15 hours ago, Shimmergloom said:

Whenever we go down the road to blame for everything that happened, there's always something else that happened that trumps it.  You can say that none of this would have happened if Bran listened to Cat and not climbed the towers.  But then none of this would have happened if Jamie and Cersei had not been up there committing incest.  Or if Littlefinger and Lyssa had not killed Jon Arryn.  Or if Robert hadn't rebelled. Or if Brandon and Rickard Stark had not gone to King's Landing and accused Rhaegar of kidnapping Lyannna.  Or if Lyanna and Rhaegar had just been honest about what was happening so that people couldn't jump to the conclusion that she was kidnapped.  Or if the Targs had never invaded Westeros.  Or if the Children of the Forest had not created the White Walkers.  Or if the First Men hadn't started a war with the Children.  And on and on.

Always people forget stupid Ned. LF set him up because he wanted a war between the north and south, and Ned stupidly fell into his trap. Killing Jon Arryn was a way for LF to prod the drunken king into seeking out Ned and bringing him south, where he could be set up and executed for treason by feeding him information about the Lannister incest he couldn't help but act on, in an incredibly stupid way. This would then inevitably lead to a war, which Ned could have avoided in any number of ways if he had not been so stupid and predictable. LF is behind all of it, but Ned Stark is definitely the second link in that chain and LF's most important tool to get his war started.

So in the great blame scheme in GoT Ned is in my mind in a healthy second place, ahead of King Robert, any of the Lannisters, Stannis, the Boltons or anyone else. Certainly far ahead of Bran. The only one who beats him is Littlefinger.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Fishslap
Spelling

[Paws]

Quote

It's like Eloise Hawking not being able to stop herself from killing her son. If you get that reference props. 

Turns out the episode was directed by Jack Bender, who directed "the Constant" episode of Lost!

[KaleyFirefly]

50 minutes ago, Fishslap said:

Penises are very underrated.

I'd like to see more of them on my screen.

Edited May 23, 2016 by KaleyFirefly

[screamin]

10 minutes ago, Shimmergloom said:

Whenever we go down the road to blame for everything that happened, there's always something else that happened that trumps it.  You can say that none of this would have happened if Bran listened to Cat and not climbed the towers. 

I don't say that at all, actually. If Bran hadn't fallen from the tower I don't think it would have made a huge difference in The Fall of the House of Stark. The dominos were set up to fall eventually.

My point was just to note that even though Bran is no longer a heedless 10 year old, and despite the hard lesson of his fall and everything he's learned about his mission and the mortality of the people around him, he still mulishly plays with danger as if he were still that ten year old. It's long past time he grew the fuck up, and other people paid the price for his insistence on playing.

[GrailKing]

24 minutes ago, Conan Troutman said:

I'm not sure we should take the cure thing too seriously. They probably both know it's bullshit, Dany just couldn't say goodbye and Jorah just went along with it. 

Nice job, autocorrect...

Yeah, that was one of the theories I always thought had a good chance of being correct. It did cause contradictions with some of the other theories I thought were plausible, at least we can scrap some of them now and work from there. But that's for the speculation thread. 

 

33 minutes ago, MarySNJ said:

Yeah, that sounds about right. I gave up on the 

  Reveal hidden contents

hearsay threads

a long time ago. 

Heresy, changed it.

[rubyred]

Hm, in the moment I thought that Sansa lied to Jon because she didn't want to admit she'd met LF, and knew Jon would reject any intel from that source. Hate to think LF actually succeeded in planting a seed of mistrust. But I do like seeing how hardass Sansa has become ("The Umbers gave Rickon to Ramsay. They can hang." <mic drop>)

I was happy that Dany gave Jorah a decent farewell. I've been worried about Iain Glen, with that fair complexion, having to wander around in leather in the desert (or Spain, whatev) so I imagine he was happy to ride out of frame and directly to a nice, air conditioned pub.

I can't remember -- why did Benjen join the Nightwatch? Surely he wasn't a criminal, was he?

[Umbelina]

The inside the episode and bonus videos answer a lot of questions this week, including about Sansa's motivations when she didn't tell Jon.  Thanks to @ElectricBoogaloo for posting them every week!

[GrailKing]

27 minutes ago, Brn2bwild said:

She also doesn't know that Robert/Robin has become so devoted to Littlefinger he wouldn't care about her plight.  It's more difficult to tell in the show, but in the books, he seemed more devoted to Sansa than to Littlefinger. 

Also:

in the Alayne chapters and or possibly the excerpts, SR seems smarter, he knows that HH is trying to replace him or is next in line.

[Shimmergloom]

3 minutes ago, rubyred said:

I can't remember -- why did Benjen join the Nightwatch? Surely he wasn't a criminal, was he?

I think the general theory is that he knew the truth about Lyanna and either didn't say anything or didn't try to stop her and blames himself for everything that happened.

[Happy Harpy]

Oh, Brienne, never change. I love you, your bluntness, your loyalty, your hand on your sword itching to slay Littlefinger on the spot. The only thing that makes me sad is how she doesn't trust my Davos. I kind of hope that she'll meet Gendry in the Riverlands, and he can testify that Davos is a good guy who wasn't on with Stannis and Mel's shenanigans. My Davos continues to be the voice of reason and I still want him and Tyrion and Varys at the Small Council when all is over.

Sansa has at least the good taste to trust and rely on Brienne, and actually she's the only one who proved trustworthy to her. As for her lying to Jon, it could be galactically stupid or she could have a plan/good reasons. I'm willing to cut her some slack, I won't blame her for wanting personal revenge, but after he was betrayed by his men Jon shouldn't take too well to be lied to by his own sister. Her confrontation with Littlefinger was great, and I think she's his kryptonite, but my definite view on it will also depend on how the situation unrolls. The idea that he might have managed to manipulate her once again leaves a bitter taste.

Lord Commander Edd, hell yeah! Tormund's crush on Brienne continues to be cute if played for laugh. (But sorry, nothing compares to Jaime's heart eyes when he saw the coast of Tarth.) I'm kind of relieved that Brienne is going to the Riverlands because Man with an Unrequited Crush often ends up dying in battle in the arms of the woman who finally recognizes his worth, and I don't want Tormund to die.

Tyrion said that his plan "wasn't enough",so it indeed means that he was stalling last week and knows the master will come at them anyway, right? I can't stand religious nuts so I was torn about Varys' attitude. On the one hand I was cheering him because well, fanatics aren't to be trusted, on the other hand I was with Tyrion and his "Dude, where's your political savvy?". It was so strange, and interesting, to see Varys out of his depth.

Dany and Jorah gave me the feels. Oh my poor Sir Friendzone, having to take a step back when she wanted to touch him. I don't think it's romantic on her side (a bit muddy, maybe) but I do think he's the person she loves the most. Maybe Jorah won't find a cure, but I'm expecting him at least to make a heroic comeback at one point.

Theon and Yara might become my favorite sibling relationship on the show. She half-expected him to betray her, and her face when he indeed spoke for her...sigh. They had their way out planned, smart! And I was glad to see that Yara had her number of supporters. So I wonder, will they make it to Meereen, or maybe they can make a stop in Braavos beforehand?

Probably unpopular, but color me unimpressed with Euron. I'm wasn't expecting blue lips and an eyepatch, but I'm not getting threatening vibes here. He's evil because he killed his brother and wants to kill his nephew and niece for the evulz or almost, but he lacks gravitas and presence so far imo. There's one big pro though, I'm pretty sure he's the next Ramsay so Ramsay will probably bite it soon. A girl can hope.

About a girl, Maisie Williams was great as always (poor Arya, when she watched the play) and the Braavos storyline is picking-up. The Waif's disdainful "Lady Stark" had shades of Thorne's "Lord Snow". Burn down the House, Arya!

Wow, the North of the Wall storyline did pick up in a big way this season. Meera is seriously  badass! I agree (and hope) that Bran and Meera might meet Benjen, it would explain why he was used in last year's finale to lure Jon out. Bran didn't go through a big personal failure/mistake yet, so I guess it was his time/his turn. But damn it hit hard. I can't even with Summer's death. And Hodor...*cries*.

[KaleyFirefly]

31 minutes ago, Conan Troutman said:

I'm not sure we should take the cure thing too seriously. They probably both know it's bullshit, Dany just couldn't say goodbye and Jorah just went along with it. 

Actually, Shireen also had greyscale. When she was little, Stannis did everything he could to find a cure. He didn't find a cure, but somehow (through magic?) he was able to stop her greyscale from spreading/advancing further.  (Another reason why it was extra ironic and tragic how Stannis killed Shireen).

[Minneapple]

Okay. So now I have had some time to process and mourn. DAMN BUT A LOT OF STUFF IS HAPPENING.

Littlefinger is SUCH a creep. Ugh, he's so slimy I feel like showering after he's on screen. DON'T LISTEN TO HIM, SANSA.

It is verrry interesting the way they're playing Sansa. Why did she lie to Jon? Is she playing him? Buttering him up by smiling and stitching him a new cloak and then being all, "bitch please, I'm the Queen" later on. I do like the way she's taking charge of things, though. And speaking of cloaks, Sansa, pls start a fashion house or something with your sewing skills. Been what, a couple days and she's stitched a dress for herself and a new cloak for Jon. Awesome. I guess all those silly sewing lessons weren't so silly after all.

I actually enjoyed the play with the fake King's Landing scene, as painful as it was. It was cheesy as hell.

For a moment I had a sliver of hope that Euron was actually dead. Dammit. Would have been kind of hilarious if he actually drowned. I guess Yara and Theon are now headed for Meereen.

"(Jon) seems trustworthy. A bit brooding, perhaps. But I suppose it's understandable, considering." Hah! I love Brienne. Also I love the LOOK that Tormund gave her. Shipping those two 4eva!

Sob! Summer. And HODOR. SOB SOB SOB.

[Alapaki]

Shit.  Hodor.  Fuck.  That one hurt.

I think it's going to take awhile to wrap my head around that storyline.  The only clear part, for me, was the validation of the prediction from last week that Bran would go rogue and start time-traveling/visioning without the Three-Eyed-Raven's guidance.  

But that's it.

* The wights didn't seem to notice Bran, but the Night King obviously did, and could actually interact with him.  

* The Three-Eyed-Raven said it was time for Bran to "become me".  But, from what we've been told, the Three-Eyed-Raven's main (if not only job) was to watch for Bran, possibly help direct him to that tree, and train him once he got there.  What's Bran's job?  Are we going to find out that 3ER is actually senior-citizen-Bran whom Bran will grow into, thus starting the cycle all over again?

* Time travel fucks with my mind.  But, if I understand the sequence correctly, Bran is with 3ER back at Winterfell as Meera is screaming for Bran to wake up and for Hodor to get up and help.  Bran, either under the tree and/or back at Winterfell, hear's Meera and decides to warg into Hodor and carry himself out of from under the tree.  It seemed to me that at the moment Bran warged into Hodor under the tree, Wyllis at Winterfell fell into a trance/coma and his eyes glassed over.  We haven't seen or been told much about what happens to someone when another person wargs into their body.  Does warging into someone in 2016 (for example) have a real-time impact on that person back in 1995, and in fact at every point prior to and up until the moment of warging?  

* Was Wyllis hearing Meera through whatever connection gets created between the warger and the wargee which, apparently, transcends time?  

* Does Wyllis become Hodor (for lack of a better description) at the moment Hodor does holding the door closed, and thus not leaving enough of himself there when Bran un-wargs?  Or did Bran stay inside Hodor too long and was it that fact that left Wyllis as Hodor?

* Did Bran successful un-warg from Hodor before Hodor died?  

[Eyes High]

I've seen a lot of speculation on Twitter that Sansa is pregnant, and after reading all of it I'm not sure what to think.

Not pregnant?: Sansa seems way too upbeat for someone worried about a potential Ramsay pregnancy. Sansa's reference to being able to feel the things Ramsay did is plausibly just a reference to PTSD. Sansa being pregnant would be a bridge too far in terms of deviations from the books (where Sansa is still a virgin and will never marry Ramsay). Sansa is likely sewing a new dress because her old one is dingy and drab. No fetus could have survived that jump.

Pregnant?: Sansa referenced Ramsay's concern with making an heir this episode (and reminded the audience that she has been raped many times). Sansa could be sewing a new dress because her old dress is too tight (although that would mean months would have passed since conception, which seems unlikely). Sansa could be alluding to a pregnancy when she talks about being able to feel what Ramsay did to her.

I'm pretty confident she's not pregnant, personally. I guess we'll see.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Eyes High

[GrailKing]

45 minutes ago, MrWhyt said:

she knows he's simple minded and easily led, she spent enough time with him (at least if i not conflating too much book stuff with show stuff(

Not according to the

Alayne chapters including the excerpt from last year or 2

Edited May 23, 2016 by GrailKing

[stillshimpy]

Oh show, you can be a bit tiring.  At least we had the monotony of the dumber Vikings and Arya's bad hair days to give me a chance to gird my emotional courage. The way the show uses the dire wolves solely as tools of emotional manipulation has me braced for the worst every time they are onscreen anyway. Poor Hodor with his one word vocabulary (akin to a woof) was also always going to be victimized via his loyalty in a manner reminiscent of the wolves. 

 

On on the upside the show has largely lost the ability to hurt me on any level.  Careful. Desensitization leads to apathy, show.

[Ambrosefolly]

I can't fault Ned completely for being a rube. He came from a different culture, more rural not the damn big city. Sansa said Northern's were different than the rest of the 7 Kingdoms. He gave people the benefit of the doubt when he shouldn't have but I can't completely blame him for trusting someone that his wife that he loved trusted, and unlike everyone else, he didn't get a learning curve. Even with Littlefinger's crush on Catelyn, I think Ned expected him to grow the fuck up and move on to someone that is not his wife (or his kid). Even the devious Cersei didn't think that show of her "power" to Littlefinger would have consequences. The guy is a sociopath that could really hold a grudge and I believe that scene partially motivated him to kill Joffrey to get one over Cersei.

I can fault Ned for not telling Robert to go and fuck himself, good luck with Stannis as his Hand, and packing up his shit, his family and his crew when Robert flippantly decreed that Sansa's dire wolf was to be killed in place of Arya's dire wolf, because his bitter wife and "heir" wanted to see the Starks suffer because Joffrey was a weak willed asshat who got his ass handed to him by Arya.

36 minutes ago, screamin said:

I don't say that at all, actually. If Bran hadn't fallen from the tower I don't think it would have made a huge difference in The Fall of the House of Stark. The dominos were set up to fall eventually.

My point was just to note that even though Bran is no longer a heedless 10 year old, and despite the hard lesson of his fall and everything he's learned about his mission and the mortality of the people around him, he still mulishly plays with danger as if he were still that ten year old. It's long past time he grew the fuck up, and other people paid the price for his insistence on playing.

I am getting this from clips, so pardon some of my ignorance: Okay, Bran's curiosity did fuck everything up, but in his slight defense, I find teenagers not much smarter than 10 years olds and another, he didn't know that not only do other beings besides the Three Eyed Raven can see him, but he can be touched like he is really there and that can break the magic that protects the tree...for some reason. When Bran called out to Ned and Ned heard him, the Raven didn't confirm that this in fact happened.

Quote

Oh, Brienne, never change. I love you, your bluntness, your loyalty, your hand on your sword itching to slay Littlefinger on the spot. The only thing that makes me sad is how she doesn't trust my Davos. I kind of hope that she'll meet Gendry in the Riverlands, and he can testify that Davos is a good guy who wasn't on with Stannis and Mel's shenanigans. My Davos continues to be the voice of reason and I still want him and Tyrion and Varys at the Small Council when all is over.

I really want Brienne to be there when Davos finds out what happen to Shireen. To she can see the lengths that Davos went to to protect Shireen, Selyse and Stannis himself from Mellisandre's influence and the real reason he wasn't with Stannis when Brienne killed him. 

Edited May 23, 2016 by Ambrosefolly

[GrailKing]

3 minutes ago, Alapaki said:

Shit.  Hodor.  Fuck.  That one hurt.

I think it's going to take awhile to wrap my head around that storyline.  The only clear part, for me, was the validation of the prediction from last week that Bran would go rogue and start time-traveling/visioning without the Three-Eyed-Raven's guidance.  

But that's it.

* The wights didn't seem to notice Bran, but the Night King obviously did, and could actually interact with him.  

* The Three-Eyed-Raven said it was time for Bran to "become me".  But, from what we've been told, the Three-Eyed-Raven's main (if not only job) was to watch for Bran, possibly help direct him to that tree, and train him once he got there.  What's Bran's job?  Are we going to find out that 3ER is actually senior-citizen-Bran whom Bran will grow into, thus starting the cycle all over again?

* Time travel fucks with my mind.  But, if I understand the sequence correctly, Bran is with 3ER back at Winterfell as Meera is screaming for Bran to wake up and for Hodor to get up and help.  Bran, either under the tree and/or back at Winterfell, hear's Meera and decides to warg into Hodor and carry himself out of from under the tree.  It seemed to me that at the moment Bran warged into Hodor under the tree, Wyllis at Winterfell fell into a trance/coma and his eyes glassed over.  We haven't seen or been told much about what happens to someone when another person wargs into their body.  Does warging into someone in 2016 (for example) have a real-time impact on that person back in 1995, and in fact at every point prior to and up until the moment of warging?  

* Was Wyllis hearing Meera through whatever connection gets created between the warger and the wargee which, apparently, transcends time?  

* Does Wyllis become Hodor (for lack of a better description) at the moment Hodor does holding the door closed, and thus not leaving enough of himself there when Bran un-wargs?  Or did Bran stay inside Hodor too long and was it that fact that left Wyllis as Hodor?

* Did Bran successful un-warg from Hodor before Hodor died?  

Hodor's eyes did not look white at the end.

[vesperholly]

1 hour ago, Conan Troutman said:

I thought "Wouldn't it be funny if he just died totally anticlimactically?". 

All through that drowning scene, I was waiting for the bearded preacher dude to realize he was actually drowning Euron and just go "uh ... oops!"

[Oscirus]

Yea I legit think that people want Sansa pregnant so they can have something else to complain about with Ramsey.  The show has shown none of the tell tale signs of a pregnancy and even the dialogue hasn't indicated such things.

[Umbelina]

3 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

I've seen a lot of speculation on Twitter that Sansa is pregnant, and after reading all of it I'm not sure what to think.

Not pregnant?: Sansa seems way too upbeat for someone worried about a potential Ramsay pregnancy. Sansa's reference to being able to feel the things Ramsay did is plausibly just a reference to PTSD. Sansa being pregnant would be a bridge too far in terms of deviations from the books (where Sansa is still a virgin and will never marry Ramsay). Sansa is likely sewing a new dress because her old one is dingy and drab.

Pregnant?: Sansa referenced Ramsay's concern with making an heir this episode (and reminded the audience that she has been raped many times). Sansa could be sewing a new dress because her old dress is too tight (although that would mean months would have passed since conception, which seems unlikely). Sansa could be alluding to a pregnancy when she talks about being able to feel what Ramsay did to her.

I'm pretty confident she's not pregnant, personally. I guess we'll see.

Well, considering how quickly Theon was suddenly at the Iron Islands and Sansa got to Winterfell, I think we have to assume time HAS passed, the show just didn't bore us with their journeys.  She's also been sewing, and considering the tools at the time, I doubt that was a quick process.

5 minutes ago, Alapaki said:

 

* The Three-Eyed-Raven said it was time for Bran to "become me".  But, from what we've been told, the Three-Eyed-Raven's main (if not only job) was to watch for Bran, possibly help direct him to that tree, and train him once he got there.  What's Bran's job?  Are we going to find out that 3ER is actually senior-citizen-Bran whom Bran will grow into, thus starting the cycle all over again?*

* Did Bran successful un-warg from Hodor before Hodor died?  

I'm not certain if the "inside the episodes" and bonus clips are considered spoilers here, but just in case, I'll tag what I learned from them here.  They are posted in that thread by the way.  

Spoiler

The Raven dude was "downloading information into Bran" as fast as he could, and not the way he wanted to train him, but that was his only option. 

[DigitalCount]

I was actually silenced by the ending of this episode. I managed a "Not Summer..." when that happened, but the entire last few minutes...speechless. This was probably worse than Shireen's death for me tbh

[Eyes High]

1 minute ago, DigitalCount said:

I was actually silenced by the ending of this episode. I managed a "Not Summer..." when that happened, but the entire last few minutes...speechless. This was probably worse than Shireen's death for me tbh

I legit wept like a baby when Hodor died. I didn't even cry when Shireen died!

[VCRTracking]

From a YouTube comment section of the video of Hodor's death by someone with the awesome Username

"Father O’Mally’O’Connel’O’Carrol’O’Reilly’O’Brian’O’Sullivan who is also Italian":

Quote

"So basically, Hodor's mind was a time remnant caused by the astrophysical proyection of Bran in the past trying to enter Hodor's mind in the future but failing and creating a mental-bridge between the Past Hodor and the Future Hodor by entering both minds simultaneously across time and space (somehow). So when Future Hodor dies, Past Hodor's mind gets stuck inside that loop, "Hold the Door", "Ho-Door", "Hodor". Ridiculously tragic."

Edited May 23, 2016 by VCRTracking

[Umbelina]

How many people that watch this show are going to stop suddenly in their tracks,  right after they say "Hold the door!" for an elevator or a door from now on?  I think that will happen.  It is known.

I was sad when Sansa's wolf was killed, and disgusted with Ned and Robert for that.  The saddest death, and I include humans in this, was the way Robb's wolf died, because he was caged and helpless.  I've been numb to wolf deaths since.

As far as human deaths?  In the books I pretty much thought they all deserved it so far, of the major characters that is.  Robb was dumber than his father, less in the books than in the show, but not by much.  Hodor didn't, but come on, he was never going to be a player in the end, and it advances Bran's story.

At this point, and yes, I know it's very warped thing to say, but I LOVE that the cast is being cut, love every minute of things they don't include in the show from the books, thrilled that they are moving this story along, because each step gets us closer to an ending.  It's time.

The future deaths I'm most looking forward to are Cersei's (which I'm sure the show WILL drag out) and Ramsay's.  I'm secretly rooting for Littlefinger so I don't want him dead, but is there any doubt (this isn't from spoilers, just logic) that Sansa will be the one to kill him?  Hopefully after she gets everything she needs from him, and with a Littlefinger-style blindside.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Umbelina
ve is not a m

[Conan Troutman]

32 minutes ago, KaleyFirefly said:

Actually, Shireen also had greyscale. When she was little, Stannis did everything he could to find a cure. He didn't find a cure, but somehow (through magic?) he was able to stop her greyscale from spreading/advancing further.  (Another reason why it was extra ironic and tragic how Stannis killed Shireen).

I'm not saying it's impossible to find a cure, just that they both have to know the chances are very, very slim. Stannis said he tried everything, bringing in all kinds of healers and wise men and whatnot, until something finally worked. Were Jorah to get the same treatment (which he won't), then maybe. But on his own, strolling through the deserts? Nah. 

33 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

 

Probably unpopular, but color me unimpressed with Euron. I'm wasn't expecting blue lips and an eyepatch, but I'm not getting threatening vibes here. He's evil because he killed his brother and wants to kill his nephew and niece for the evulz or almost, but he lacks gravitas and presence so far imo. There's one big pro though, I'm pretty sure he's the next Ramsay so Ramsay will probably bite it soon. A girl can hope.

Well, it did make sense for him to try to get rid of any pretenders. Asshole move, sure, but not just for the evulz.

20 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

I've seen a lot of speculation on Twitter that Sansa is pregnant, and after reading all of it I'm not sure what to think.

Not pregnant?: Sansa seems way too upbeat for someone worried about a potential Ramsay pregnancy. Sansa's reference to being able to feel the things Ramsay did is plausibly just a reference to PTSD. Sansa being pregnant would be a bridge too far in terms of deviations from the books (where Sansa is still a virgin and will never marry Ramsay). Sansa is likely sewing a new dress because her old one is dingy and drab. No fetus could have survived that jump.

Pregnant?: Sansa referenced Ramsay's concern with making an heir this episode (and reminded the audience that she has been raped many times). Sansa could be sewing a new dress because her old dress is too tight (although that would mean months would have passed since conception, which seems unlikely). Sansa could be alluding to a pregnancy when she talks about being able to feel what Ramsay did to her.

I'm pretty confident she's not pregnant, personally. I guess we'll see.

Wouldn't she know by now if she was pregnant? We don't know exactly how much time has passed since she fled Winterfell, but unless she got pregnant right before, she should've noticed it by now. Fad Walda gave birth for crying out loud after Sansa was gone and LF got notice and traveled all the way up to Molestown, so some time has to have passed. 

12 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Well, considering how quickly Theon was suddenly at the Iron Islands and Sansa got to Winterfell, I think we have to assume time HAS passed, the show just didn't bore us with their journeys.  She's also been sewing, and considering the tools at the time, I doubt that was a quick process.

I'm not certain if the "inside the episodes" and bonus clips are considered spoilers here, but just in case, I'll tag what I learned from them here.  They are posted in that thread by the way.  

  Hide contents

The Raven dude was "downloading information into Bran" as fast as he could, and not the way he wanted to train him, but that was his only option. 

Spoiler

Interesting. That would explain why he wasn't adamant about them leaving - he had to transfer his knowledge no matter what and probably knew Bran and Meera would make it out alive. 

Edited May 23, 2016 by Conan Troutman

[GrailKing]

How many trees are on the II to build ships?

I don't think the North is safe, could they attack Bear Island?

[Enigma X]

I  am a huge sci/fi and fantasy fan but must say that I hate time travel stories. So the Hodor things bugs me a little. 

On top of shedding a tear for Summer and Hodor, Jorah and Daenerys broke my heart a little too.

I don't get why Sansa lied to Jon. That makes no sense. 

[Umbelina]

Oh and as far as the whole "Sansa never was with Ramsay, Jenye was" thing?  Who knows?  The way GRRM dilly dallies around, maybe Ramsay found out Jenye was fake and demanded and received the real Sansa at some point?  Or acquired her some other way?  That was a pretty big thing to change from the books if Sansa never ended up in his hands, unless none of it really matters anyway, and Sansa is due to die, and Ramsay is due to die as well.

Interesting question.  If neither of them have any real role at the conclusion of the books, why not do it the way D&D did?

[BloatedGuppy]

The Wall and North of the Wall continue to sustain what is becoming a ridiculously erratic and shaky show.

• What even is Littlefinger's plan supposed to be? How does marching The Vale's forces north to engage the Boltons accomplish anything for him? It's convoluted in the books, but the show manifestation is downright comical. Also, does the guy own a Time Travelling DeLorean? His ability to whisk from one end of Westeros to the other as the needs of each episode's plot demands is astonishing. If he showed up in Braavos next to mug for the camera and garble out of the side of his mouth at Arya I'd only be marginally surprised.
• The Kingsmoot sequence puts the final nail in the appalling coffin that was the show-canon Ironborn. The novelization of the Kingsmoot was a rambling and frequently boring cautionary example of Martin's myopic fascination with his tertiary plot lines. It should have been easy to top. Instead we get this stillborn atrocity. Makes elements of the Dorne storyline look almost competent in comparison. Absolutely risible dialogue coupled with pitiful production values and dubious acting. No room in the budget for a horn? I started laughing about halfway through and couldn't stop.
• Mereen continues to be awful. Tyrion thrived as a character when he had Martin's dialogue to spout. The anachronistic drivel they have him vomiting up every episode at this point is cringe-worthy. I appreciate that Dinklage is the headlining star at this point and they need something for him to do while the plot spins its wheels, but this has to be embarrassing for the man. It's all tipsy bickering and deck chair shuffling.
• I wanted to get emotional over Jorah, but A) Emilia Clarke, despite doing her best, is not the most convincing actress, and B) he doesn't even have Greyscale, damn it! He's fine!
• The Children of the Forest and the curious makeup decisions the show made with them distracted during an otherwise entertaining end sequence. I guess "entertaining" isn't the right word, it bordered on emotionally punitive. I get that fur is expensive to animate, guys, but you're running out of Direwolves.
• Hold the Door is beautifully tragic and poignant enough that I'm strongly suspicious it's canonically official. 
• Spoiler

  Ended the episode feeling a bit blue, and then Penny Dreadful kicked my heart in. They have GOT to stop giving Rory Kinnear and Eva Green these scenes together. The human heart can only take so much pathos.

   

Edited May 23, 2016 by SilverStormm
Please do not post spoilers of any kind from other shows in here and if you do, spoiler tag and warn what it contains. Be thoughtful to other posters.

[DigitalCount]

1 minute ago, BloatedGuppy said:

• Hold the Door is beautifully tragic and poignant enough that I'm strongly suspicious it's canonically official. 

Apparently way back in 2014 someone told GRRM a joke about how the name Hodor probably comes from "Hold the door" because he was trying to catch/operate an elevator while coming up with it, and GRRM told that person that they were pretty close to being right.

[Conan Troutman]

4 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Oh and as far as the whole "Sansa never was with Ramsay, Jenye was" thing?  Who knows?  The way GRRM dilly dallies around, maybe Ramsay found out Jenye was fake and demanded and received the real Sansa at some point?  Or acquired her some other way?  That was a pretty big thing to change from the books if Sansa never ended up in his hands, unless none of it really matters anyway, and Sansa is due to die, and Ramsay is due to die as well.

Interesting question.  If neither of them have any real role at the conclusion of the books, why not do it the way D&D did?

I guess in the books Sansa could just hate Ramsay for what he did to Jeyne. I don't think this gives anything away for Sansa, as she'll outlive Ramsay even if she were to die at some point. 

[jeansheridan]

I think I'm gonna have to watch some Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt to get over this one.  That was worse than Shireen's death.  And I really don't know how Meera outruns those zombies.  I think that's what frustrated me with that sequence.  There isn't an obvious solution.  They're surrounded in hostile territory with no allies.  They don't have dragons to call upon.  Unless a pack of direwolves shows up in the next episode, I'm having trouble believing they get away.  I need my action sequences to have a bit more logic.  At least Jon was on his boat when he faced off the zombies (although my friend and I kept saying, row, row!  They were way too close.  And can't zombies swim?  They walk pretty well.  

Although I liked the scene with the red priestess, I don't think it was set up very well.  Calling upon her felt very random, although I do like that she has almost the exact same outfit as The Wall's priestess.  I wonder if she's actually super old too.    I will say it was one of the better Tyrion scenes this season.  Less dialogue suits him.  Peter Dinklage is good at reacting.  

Regarding the greyscale, in the books one option would be to cut off your arm.  Of course a swordsman won't do that willingly.  But if it's the only way to survive, then he may go that route.  

Who knew Yara and Theon would be the second most functional brother/sister combo on the show?  I love the fact that the king's moot is basically two people arguing their case one time!  How efficient.  

I think actually he is supposed to die in that ceremony.  That's the point of it.  A brief death, but they're meant to drown.  So we get yet another rebirth.  

Nymeria is showing up.  My money is during the Battle of the Bastards.  She's gonna show up with a massive pack and cause major trouble.  And then die.  Along with Ghost.  At this point I just want them all dead so I don't have to worry about them.

[MrWhyt]

47 minutes ago, Shimmergloom said:

I think the general theory is that he knew the truth about Lyanna and either didn't say anything or didn't try to stop her and blames himself for everything that happened.

the Starks have always sent a son to the watch. He was third in line, not important in the scheme of succession, he must have joined before robert's rebellion.