S07.E10: Choose Your Battles

[Abmis]

I have sympathy for Barb.  Unless there's someone I don't know about, she's the only person in the world who really cares about Jace.  She has to be aware of that and must be worried about what's going to become of Jace if anything were to happen to her.  Maybe that's why she never quite gives up on hoping Jenelle will straighten out.

Backpackgate has got me wondering how the backpack is handled on a daily basis.  How does it usually get from the house to the vehicle, from the vehicle to the school, from the school to the vehicle, and back into the house?  Schools have such different drop off and pick up policies that I can't begin to guess how it's handled there.  I think this is one of those things where everybody involved needs to establish a routine and stick to it.  I know that's highly unlikely considering who I'm talking about, but I can dream.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Abmis
spelling

[gunderda]

On 5/24/2016 at 10:49 AM, Katt said:

I think a school putting on a Father/Daughter dance is a shitty thing to do. How many little girls have NO father figure or one who is horribly unreliable and are going to feel bad about not being able to go? Cole specifically said no mothers were there instead and this makes me sad. 
 

There's definitely a fine line with those things.... but generally if a Dad isn't available there is some other male figure that is.  

When my nephew was in like 1st or 2nd grade his school did "Donuts with Daddy" and "Muffins with Mommy"  and it was actually during the school day (I think right at the beginning) so it wasn't even an optional event. I would imagine that not everyone's mom or dad could go due to work but my nephew's mom was either in jail or rehab.  My brother has primary custody and no other family is close to where he lived.  My mom would drive 8-9 hours to attend the 'muffins with mommy' events with my nephew.  (but my nephews now have a wonderful step-mom - bio mom is out of jail and apparently drug free but lives in a different state)

 

1 hour ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

I think the real question America wants answered is, "How does a person lose weight on a diet of Lunchables, Mountain Dew and frosting in a can?" 

 

sometimes a kid's metabolism is CRAZY!  My nephews are bean poles and when my brother was a single dad I know his diet wasn't the healthiest lol

[DoctorWhovian]

I think the standard now for Daddy/Mommy and Child type events is that where there is a kid who doesn't have a mom or dad, they can have any adult in their life fill in, regardless of gender (I've definitely seen photos of a child with same sex parents at the "opposite gendered" event, and I've been to Girl Scout events, both as a scout and as an adult volunteer, where girls bring their dad to a "Mommy and Me" event, the only restriction is if it's an overnight, then there are rules about where they can sleep). It's a "Daddy (or whoever you want to bring) Daughter Dance." 

[ReadMeLattice]

40 minutes ago, lidarose9 said:

She is old enough to see that when there are cameras around, Momma gets upset and complains about how mean Daddy and Miranda are, so she's gonna complain too. She tried it out and her aunt pulled out her cellphone and asked her to repeat it. Just like the big camera guys do. She wants to be like her mom. 

Sure, but that doesn't mean she's being manipulative--she was probably sharing her real feelings and then Leah is manipulating HER to make Miranda look like a villain. Children are allowed to have negative feelings about a way they're treated and it can be valid, but adults shouldn't use those against each other like Leah is doing. She also shouldn't have had to carry the backpack. It's not a chore, it's dangerous. Far LESS dangerous than what Leah and Corey are doing on a regular basis, though, so Leah can shut her mouth until she steps up to the plate. Leah is using her daughter's disability against Miranda.

[gunderda]

I'm not discounting Ali's condition but a lot of kids that age are going to whine about a heavy backpack. And it's possible in that moment that Miranda maybe forgot that Ali's whining about that might be pretty legit. 

Maybe they should look into one of those rolling backpacks for her. 

[BitterApple]

3 hours ago, Abmis said:

I have sympathy for Barb.  Unless there's someone I don't know about, she's the only person in the world who really cares about Jace.  

It's so heartbreaking to think that Jace has ONE person in the entire world who cares about him. One. That's it. Compared to Aubree, Isaac, Ali and Aleeah who have parents, step-parents and large extended families actively involved in their lives. Poor Jace's circle is filled with rotating quasi father figures, a druggie mother and random children to play alone with on a busy street. What a life, the poor kid.

Edited May 25, 2016 by BitterApple

[ghoulina]

17 hours ago, GreatKazu said:

I think he wanted to get Leah's input first before calling. It makes sense to gather necessary info from the other parent about what they know about their child's health before calling the medical office.

It seemed like he wanted it discussed when they see Dr. Tsao next. He's not local, so it's not like they can call and get an appointment the next day. I think Cory has every intention of bringing it up himself, IF he can go. What he said to Leah was, "IF I can't go next time, can you mention her eating to Dr. Tsao?" (paraphrasing here) So yes, it seems he was trying to get on the same page as her. Instead Leah takes her right away to a local doc and "proves" to Cory that she's fine. Although I have my doubts that she even brought up the actual weight LOSS. I pictured her taking her to a regular checkup and just asking the doc if her weight is okay, which it is. But a weight LOSS of any kind of a child is concerning. 

 

6 hours ago, Tatum said:

Also, did Miranda tell Ali she'd have to carry her own backpack, or did she just say she couldn't carry it that second and would be back for it later? And if Gracie was in the car, couldn't Gracie have carried the backpack?

Very valid questions. We don't know, because it wasn't filmed and we only have a 6-year-old to rely on. But yes, it could have played out a number of ways. Maybe Miranda was saying, "I can't hold it right now Ali. I've got the baby. Hold on a minute and let me get situated". Or, "I can't hold it because I have the baby, but Gracie, can you carry it?" She could have asked an aide from the school to come out and get it. We don't know. That's why Leah's righteous indignation is just a bit ridiculous. 

 

3 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

I know Chelsea's sick of dealing with Adam, but it's a father-daughter dance, for christ's sake.  So text him the date, and tell him you need to know by X day if he can make it, and tell him if you don't hear from him by X day you'll assume he can't and you'll make other arrangements.  If Adam says he's coming, then have Cole waiting in the wings if Adam doesn't show.  And don't tell Aubree any of this.

But the thing is, I'm sure all the kids at school knew about the dance and were talking about it. SO it's not like Chelsea could keep it from Aubree, or what the dance was for. It was for fathers. And she knows who he real father is. Chelsea told her dad that Aubree asked to take both, so I'm assuming Aubree would follow up with things like, "Did my dad say if he would go or not?", etc. And really, Adumb should read the school newsletters on his on and not require Chelsea to update him about every little thing. I think Chelsea does make an effort to let him be involved, but he chooses to fuck it up nearly every single time. 

1 hour ago, Abmis said:

 

I have sympathy for Barb.  Unless there's someone I don't know about, she's the only person in the world who really cares about Jace. 

 

This may be true. To a degree. But how sad to have the one person who cares about you threaten to send you somewhere else to live if you don't behave. How sad that the one person that cares about you continues to put in the middle of a very toxic relationship. It's gross, how Jace is treated by all. 

[SPLAIN]

@StatisticalOutlier for some reason I am unable to quote your post.

My recollection about Barb acquiring custody of Jace was due to Jenelle leaving him in her care constantly. Barb did not volunteer in the sense that she thought she could do better than Jenelle. Shit, a lioness could do a better job at mothering Jace than Jenelle. Jenelle would not give up Jace for adoption. Jenelle dumped Jace in her mother's care to the point Barb needed to legally do something about the situation. Barb had hoped Jenelle would get her shit together so she could then hand Jace back to her. That has not happened as we all know. Barb is essentially stuck with being Jace's guardian because what else can she do? I do not always agree with how Barb handles her grandson and I cringe at some of her scenes, but I just wanted to point out this was not something Barb volunteered for as much as she was put in a predicament that she had hoped was temporary due to Jenelle telling her mom she was not capable of caring for her son. 

Edited May 25, 2016 by SPLAIN

[Chicken Wing]

12 minutes ago, SPLAIN said:

@StatisticalOutlier for some reason I am unable to quote your post.

My recollection about Barb acquiring custody of Jace was due to Jenelle leaving him in her care constantly. Barb did not volunteer in the sense that she thought she could do better than Jenelle. Shit, a lioness could do a better job at mothering Jace than Jenelle. Jenelle would not give up Jace for adoption. Jenelle dumped Jace in her mother's care to the point Barb needed to legally do something about the situation. Barb had hoped Jenelle would get her shit together so she could then hand Jace back to her. That has not happened as we all know. Barb is essentially stuck with being Jace's guardian because what else can she do? I do not always agree with how Barb handles her grandson and I cringe at some of her scenes, but I just wanted to point out this was not something Barb volunteered for as much as she was put in a predicament that she had hoped was temporary due to Jenelle telling her mom she was not capable of caring for her son. 

Right. It's like Barbara actually said a season or two ago: She never wanted to "take" Jace; it was something that simply had to be. Sometimes Jenelle seems to get this. And other times, well...

[ghoulina]

IIRC, It seemed to me that Jenelle had all but given up custody of Jace except for legally. She came and went as she pleased. She was squatting with Kiefer in someone else's abandoned home. She would leave the state. She was NOT taking care of Jace, so what else was Barb to do? But Jenelle didn't fight it. Not at all. In fact, at the time, she almost seemed relieved. Her protestations and repainting of history, as if her child was STOLEN from her, fall on deaf ears with me. 

[truelovekiss]

3 hours ago, Phoebe70 said:

I'm not surprised about the Father/Daughter dance.  Both my daughters are adopted from China.  They were abandoned, so we have zero, zilch info about their birth parents.  And every year at elementary school they have to do a stupid "family tree" presentation.  Yes, my husband and I are her parents, but then she has to state how many pounds she was at birth.  We have no idea.  My girls were estimated to be several weeks old when they were found.  Then they have to write which parent they most look like.  Ummmmm....

I can't believe that the teacher wouldn't assess the class she had, and realize maybe that project could be insensitive. I would think that they would try to tweak the project, and maybe make it more focused on the present, and all of the people who love them.

[truelovekiss]

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Edited May 25, 2016 by truelovekiss
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[truelovekiss]

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[truelovekiss]

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[StatisticalOutlier]

58 minutes ago, SPLAIN said:

Barb is essentially stuck with being Jace's guardian because what else can she do? I do not always agree with how Barb handles her grandson and I cringe at some of her scenes, but I just wanted to point out this was not something Barb volunteered for as much as she was put in a predicament that she had hoped was temporary due to Jenelle telling her mom she was not capable of caring for her son. 

But Barb wasn't just put in the predicament; she had a big hand in it.  She told Jenelle she wouldn't take care of the kid, but she did anyway.  In that sense, I feel she volunteered because she chose not to make Jenelle take care of Jace. 

There was an episode of 16&P (maybe two?) where the parents insisted that they would not take care of the baby and the daughter believed it and gave the baby up for adoption.  Traumatic for all involved, but at least there's a chance that the baby found its way into a decent home.  Jace was never even given that chance because Barbara prevented it from happening, and I think she owes him.

Adoption and foster care are far from perfect, and there are definitely no guarantees.  But if Jace were living this very life within the foster care system, it would be used as an example of the failing of the system, that a child would be placed in such a harmful, toxic atmosphere.

[lezlers]

One thing I really noticed about Kail in this episode was, outside of her very uncomfortable phone call with Javi, she just seemed so HAPPY.  Like a weight had been lifted from her.  Obviously them divorcing is the right choice since she seemed like a different person without him around.  They clearly got married for the wrong reasons and aren't compatible.  I hope they both find better matches for themselves.

I wanted to slap Leah and her entire hillbilly family.  God, talk about trying to create drama out of nothing.  I love my children more than life itself but I snap at them on the daily.  Especially when my four year old decides when I've got my hands full with his little sister that he needs something RIGHT THEN that he's perfectly capable of getting himself.  Little kids are exhausting.  They can be annoying.   I'd be more surprised if Miranda HAND'T had moments like that with the girlses.  At least she's not driving around the holler high off her ass trying to score some more smack while they roll around unrestrained in the backseat with shit dropping on their heads from their hoardermobile like their "real mother."   God that entire Messer clan is just pure trash.

And Jenelle.  Good lord.  I don't think you could find a bigger narcissist if you tried.  She's on the phone with her mom and her SON and all she can do is go on and on and on and on and on and on and ON about her feigned "illness."  And how does someone with a medical assisting degree not know that you cannot get prescribed addictive medications once you've been flagged as an addict?  And I love how Dave can't work because SHE'S bedridden (unless it's to go out to eat, then she's fine) and someone needs to take care of Kaiser.  Someone like....HIS FATHER?  That you won't let him see?  Did you think of that you selfish twat?  God I might actually loathe her more than Leah, and that's saying something.

And fuck Adam.  How can anyone even try to put the blame on Chelsea for his behavior?  He totally left Aubree hanging.  His six year old daughter.  Didn't even have the courtesy to let her know he wouldn't be there.  I don't care if Chelsea texted him 4 hours before the dance (which she didn't even have an obligation to do in the first place.) He needs to RESPOND.  He is an absolute piece of shit.  I hope she DOES replace him with Cole because Aubree deserves better.  I was that girl.  You know who walked me down the aisle at my wedding?  Not my sperm donor, that's for sure.

Edited May 25, 2016 by lezlers

[Lexie]

6 hours ago, BravoAddict72 said:

Why wouldn't Corey and Miranda have a baby? Just because Corey had children first with someone else doesn't mean Miranda shouldn't have one of her own. She seems like a really good mother to me. I don't think they should let Leah's craziness change their family plans. I am still not convinced anything really happened with the backpack. Maybe Miranda said she couldn't carry it at that moment but would get it later. I wouldn't put it past Leah's family to edit the video. Plus, she's a kid. They don't always tell the whole story. She could be a little jealous of the new baby and that could play a part in it.

I don't think we really know anything about Miranda   We don't see a lot of her and their marriage is probably not all it's cracked up to be considering that Corey was banging Leah still after the wedding    But my point is that I think they should have waited until things settled down more with Gracie acting out and Ali's issues and Leah's issues and custody issues    I don't know why nobody believes what Ali is saying, she's there clear as day saying what she feels exactly like she did in that car ride with Leah where she had no breakfast. I'm not going to just not believe it because Leah is the way that she is and Miranda seems more together.       If Ali feels like that it should be addressed and she definitely shouldn't be holding something that she herself says is too heavy    Personally I think both twins need to see someone to talk about their feelings and all the bullshit upheaval they have been through in their lives   

 

Barb was between a rock and a hard place when she was basically forced to step up and raise jace.  She knows that he alternative would be jenelle leaving him with whatever drug addict loser friend who would babysit or worse dragging him along.  Imagine jace along for the ride on any of the nonsense that jenelle has been up to since he was born.   I don't consider that volunteering at all.  She did it for his safety and did not have the power to put him up for adoption like she wanted jenelle to do in the first place.   

[lezlers]

On ‎5‎/‎24‎/‎2016 at 9:20 AM, Lemons said:

Chelsea and Adam are both letting their hate for each other get in the way of Aubreys best interests.  Not all that unusual sadly.  Since Chelsea is supposed to be the better person, she needs to stop playing games for Aubreys sake.  The fact that she told two conflicting stories on what she texted Adam and whether he answered shows she's up to no good.  They both need to let go of the past and start fresh.  

One good thing about Cole is that he doesn't get involved with the Adam bashing.  

I'm not understanding what you expected Chelsea to do here.  Text him a month in advance, with weekly reminders? Drive to his house to ensure he's going to come?  Go buy him an outfit?  Pick him up and bring him to the house so he can take Aubree?   It's not even her responsibility to let him know about the dance in the first place, so why is it somehow HER fault that he never even responded and knowingly left his six year old daughter hanging?  How in the world does that situation become Chelsea's fault?  Is there anything he does that ISN'T somehow her fault?  The objective facts are: she texted him.  He did not deny that (you know he'd be the first one out there screaming that she never let him know if she hadn't.)  Who cares WHEN the text was sent? 

Edited May 25, 2016 by lezlers

[lezlers]

On ‎5‎/‎24‎/‎2016 at 9:31 AM, Lemons said:

Even the best fathers don't always follow their kids school activities that closely.  If my husband had a father daughter dance, I would have to remind him every day for a week, call him three times on the day, pick out his outfit, have the child dressed and ready.  And he is an involved father.

That's a hell of a lot to put on someone you're not even in a relationship with.  If that's what's expected of Chelsea with respect to what it's going to take to have Adam involved in their daughter's life then some people are just never going to be satisfied.  If he gave a shit, he'd make an effort.  It's really that simple. Doesn't take much to return a text.  You're literally moving your pinkie for about 10 seconds.  I think even that juicehead could manage that much.

[lezlers]

20 hours ago, guilfoyleatpp said:

And let me preface this by saying that I'm not defending Leah in any way, but why didn't COREY call the damn doctor if he was worried about Ali's weight?

My husband does this all the time and it makes me nuts.  Dude, you're the dad. If you're worried about something, YOU can also CALL THE DOCTOR. Or even EMAIL him. FFS. Being the mom does not make you a magical elf who communicates telepathically with medical professionals.

Further, doesn't Corey have sole legal custody or something? Definitely his job to call the doctor. 

Truth.  I'm loathe to take Leah's side on ANYTHING but I had those same thoughts.  He's primary custodian.  Doctor's appointments and the like fall into his domain now.  Incidentally, I go through the same thing with my husband and our kids.  Apparently possessing a vagina magically makes you the one responsible for doctor's appointments, school events, ect.   Doesn't matter what the work/home situation is.  Vagina = YOUR JOB.

[Lexie]

42 minutes ago, lezlers said:

I'm not understanding what you expected Chelsea to do here.  Text him a month in advance, with weekly reminders? Drive to his house to ensure he's going to come?  Go buy him an outfit?  Pick him up and bring him to the house so he can take Aubree?   It's not even her responsibility to let him know about the dance in the first place, so why is it somehow HER fault that he never even responded and knowingly left his six year old daughter hanging?  How in the world does that situation become Chelsea's fault?  Is there anything he does that ISN'T somehow her fault?  The objective facts are: she texted him.  He did not deny that (you know he'd be the first one out there screaming that she never let him know if she hadn't.)  Who cares WHEN the text was sent? 

It's partially her fault because if it would make Aubree happy to have Adam there Chelsea could have texted him the specifics and told him that Aubree would like to go with him.  Cole sure Knew the details, do you think he got them from the school website in an effort to prove that he wanted to go and deserved to be there ?     Chelsea wanted Aubree to go wih Cole instead and that's what makes her an asshole in this situation to me.  Nobody is saying that Adam is super involved with aubrees school or even arguing that he should be.  How could he be when he is not even allowed to go get her from school?   Chelsea wants Adams contact with Aubree to be limited and supervised so it is her job to fill him in on the details and make arrangements if she wanted him to be there for Aubree.  Which she doesn't.  

[toodywoody]

Even if she texted him, did he even ask where or when? Did he even bother to look it up? He is a grown adult and that is his daughter that he claims that he wants more rights to and all his bs. Well step up. It isn't Chelsea's job to hold his hand and do all this shit. He could have looked up and he could have responded back, the damn phone is always in his hands when he has Chelsea, so he can't say he didn't see or receive it. 

I'm watching the after show and Leah can stfu. And Jenelle can stfu about her made up shit. If she couldn't walk, how the hell did she get up on the stand and sit on the couch. And her Instagram shows all sorts of shit she has done. If she can't walk then how did she get in the chair by the pool and at the beach with Kaiser. etc., etc. Her made up shit is just that. they did the mri and she has had to have the results back by now. And Jenelle and her right way to parent comment, stfu, you have not been a parent to Jace. Just wow. 

Edited May 25, 2016 by toodywoody

[Mkay]

He left his daughter hanging. I have NO sympathy for him. None. While hea busy on his phone it would be super easy to go to the school website and find out when the dance is. He obviously was able to find out her lunch time to go eat lunch with her. He can just as easily call the school and find out the details of the dance. I'm sure she was sent home with a notice about the dance, if they are like any other school. No wonder Cole would be aware of the date and time. Tell your daughter something. In this case it wasn't even that he had Paislee that kept him from going, it was the gym. Ugh People are practically worshipping him on his Instagram about how wonderful a daddy he is. It's gross. 

[Christina87]

9 hours ago, SlothLoveChunk said:

I finally got around to watching this last night and O.M.G.  I couldn't contain my rage during most of it (mostly towards Leah and Jenelle, although Kail had her moments).

1.  Chelsea- let's just all agree that Adumb is a loser.  If he truly cared about being involved in Aubree's life, he would have at least looked at the date of the dance once Chelsea mentioned it, saw he had other obligations, and called to tell Aubree he was sorry that he couldn't be there.  To just not show up or call or text shows everything you need to know about Adumb and his MO.  I've always felt very "meh" about Cole.  Felt like Chelsea was pushing the "here's your replacement daddy!", and that while he seemed nice, he might just be in it for the money/publicity.  This episode changed that.  I really think he loves Aubree.  His voice may be annoying, but I think he'll always be there for that little girl.

2. Kail- yeah, she's pretty heartless.  She was actually spot on when she said she was a robot.  I think she's capable of emotions at certain times and very certain situations when she thinks she's "supposed" to have emotions, but otherwise she's just cold.  I hate Javi.  But at least PRETEND to miss your husband when he's deployed.  Seriously. 

3.  Leah- let's stir that pot a little more, huh?  First off, Corey brought up the weight issue very calmly and you could tell he was concerned.  He didn't phrase it as "this is all your fault" one bit.  He merely said he noticed Ali seemed to be having trouble eating and appeared to be losing weight.  Leah somehow gets in her head that Corey was berating her and tells her sister some crazy exaggeration of how how the conversation went down.  Second of all, I don't know how tall Ali is, but 36 lbs at 6 years old seems very small to me.  My daughter was barely 10% on the weight chart at 23 lbs right at 2.5 years old, and she's petite in height too.  Second off, that whole Miranda issue was a complete non-issue.  When Leah got that phone call she answered it almost in tears and then sort of thought "oh wait...I'm supposed to act upset AFTER I talk on the phone".  So what if Miranda couldn't bring in Ali's bookbag right that very second?  On a scale of 1 to 10 of "issues" I'd grade this a 0.0016.  I couldn't believe the villainous things about Miranda I read on the Facebook Teen Mom page.  People are batshit crazy and really are just sheep, blindly following where they're led.  I guess not helping with a backpack is WAY worse than driving while high, texting while driving, repeated truancy to the point where the courts take away your custody, and not being able to feed your kids meals.

4.  Jenelle- I second ALL the posters in here who can't believe Barb.  I'm so torn because I love Barb as the loudmouth, sarcastic, New-England-accented CHARACTER that she is.  I hate her as the mother and grandparent she is.  There is no reason to even consider bringing Jace back to that house after what happened the previous weekend.  It's like she's completely oblivious to how damaging and destructive Jenelle is to  Let me share something.  8 months ago I started having numbness in my fingers on my right hand.  Doctor dismissed it, thinking it was tendonitis of some sort.  It subsided.  I've been very tired for about 6 months.  I had mono for a third time (yeah, I am LUCKY) a few years ago and my fatigue is as bad as that.  Last month, I started having night blindness in my right eye intermittently.  Went to the eye doctor, who ran some tests that showed some mild abnormalities (but not enough to be instantly alarming).  My eye doctor is very concerned about MS and wants me to have an MRI.  Problem is, I'm 4 months pregnant.  I work full time, and have an almost 3-year old.  We've decided to wait to see if symptoms worsen before pursuing more testing.  Know who've I've told (despite this anonymous board)?  My husband.  That's it.  I don't go around complaining to all who will listen.  I haven't told my parents, my kid, my boss, my friends...because why, other than for attention?  That's all Jenelle is.  A destructive, narcissistic, attention-whore.

Hi! Longtime lurker here, but your post convinced me to come out of obscurity, because I think I might be able to help you out. What this sounds like to me is a silent migraine! I have had debilitating migraines for years, but when they're under control, sometimes I'll have silent ones. They can give you symptoms without the headache pain, and two of my major symptoms are numbness in fingers and visual disturbances. You would never think those two things would go together, but I get those at the same time during almost every headache. Everyone's symptoms are different, and some people experience things like nausea, dizziness, and light sensitivity too, while some don't. Migraines of any kind can also leave you feeling drained for a long stretch of time. The thing that really tipped me off was when you said they're both on your right side. Migraine complications are always on the side of your head opposite of the headache, because enlarged blood vessels press on nerves and cause disturbances. If this is your problem, the headache you're not feeling could be on the left side. 

 

The weird thing is that you can get silent migraines even if you've never had a migraine problem in your life! That actually happened to my sister. Next time that happens, try taking an Advil. Oddly enough, taking pain medication even though you're not in pain can stop the migraine and make the symptoms disappear. 

 

A strange coincidence is that I have trouble reading when I have a migraine, and thought this could possibly be jenelle's problem until I heard she was out partying under flashing lights and drinking alcohol...two huuuuge migraine triggers! There is no way she could do that and not end up with a horrible headache if she was truly suffering from this condition!

[Lexie]

Why does Cole not have to get his phone out and look it up?  I also don't believe that Chelsea didn't know when or where it would be when she first told Adam.  If she even told Adam.  

[Mkay]

Because of its anything like my child's school they will send a big bright piece of paper home with the date and time and reminders as it gets closer. Sure Chelsea could have snapped a picture and sent it to Adam, but when will Adam be a grownup and act like a daddy without help? He probably still would have skipped it for his workout crap. 

 

(Totally hating on Adam, not you.  I know that's hard to tell sometimes on the internet.  He irks me.)

Edited May 25, 2016 by Mkay

[BitterApple]

Chelsea definitely knew the details of the dance. She was an asshole for being deliberately vague in the text instead of saying "Aubree has a father/daughter dance next Tuesday at 7 pm. Can you take her? " She was hedging her bets that Adam wouldn't dig deeper and Cole could be the hero and save the day. She ended up getting what she wanted. Adam is also an asshole for not asking about the specifics, making no effort to follow up and ultimately leaving his daughter hanging. The unfortunate loser in all of this is Aubree.

Edited May 25, 2016 by BitterApple

[shelley1234]

23 minutes ago, Lexie said:

Why does Cole not have to get his phone out and look it up?  I also don't believe that Chelsea didn't know when or where it would be when she first told Adam.  If she even told Adam.  

Adam couldn't even be bothered to answer Chelsea's text about the dance at all...and just left his daughter hanging as to whether or not he would be there because he had a weight lifting competition.  That's not being a dad, so I am glad her dad that shows up for her went to the dance with her.

[blubld43]

3 hours ago, ghoulina said:

That's why Leah's righteous indignation is just a bit ridiculous. 

I think it's a whole lot ridiculous.  We didn't see any context for that conversation; I doubt seriously that Ali started suddenly going off on Miranda without a little nudging. I guess we're all suppose to ignore all Leah's failings as a mom?  It sounded to me like nothing more than the usual sibling rivalry, nothing whatsoever.  Leah's family can all have several effing seats, and quit trying to turn those girls against their father and stepmom.!  Those people have primary custody of her daughters because she was doing such a piss-poor job as their mother that a judge felt moved to remove them from her custody.The Messer clan, if they truly love those girls, need to let the facts sink in a little and get some lives of their own.

[anarchyangel84]

Every time I see this stupid bitch Jenelle's name go across that screen, I cringe. I know that Leah & Farrah are bad, but they're nowhere near as bad a Jenelle. She's a sociopath, an animal abuser, and a selfish bitch. It really bothers me that MTV continues to enable her. Makes me never want to watch MTV ever again. I hate to say this- but I hate her. Jace & Kaiser deserve better. It cracked me up when Jenelle said that David has a job- but didn't go to work "this week" because she's sick. I wish I could take weeks at a time off like that. He'll probably quit his job soon. David said something like Barb doesn't care about Jenelle's happines. If she did, she wouldn't have taken Jace off of Jenelle in the first place. Someone needs to tell Dave that Jenelle gave Jace to Barbara. 

I feel like Leah is doing better than she was. Haven't seen her nodding out lately but she still has a LONG way to go. I feel like some of the things people get down on her for are never going to change- because she's only doing things the way her mother did so she doesn't see them as wrong. I don't understand what changed Corey's mind with custody, I feel like he likes to have the control. I like the shared custody & I think that's how it should be. For some reason, I've never been too big of a fan of Miranda & now I really don't like her. I believe Ali, she wasn't hesitating/thinking about what she was saying so I think she was telling the truth. Miranda doesn't seem like she's affectionate with the girls at all. 

Adumb is a shitty father, we know that. But sometimes I do wonder if Chelsea doesn't tell Adam about things because she wants Cole to be her Daddy. Did she really text Adam about the Daddy/Daughter dance? I don't know. 

Lincoln was kinda cute in this episode. Normally he's kind of creepy. I don't know about yinz- but I think Kail seems more relaxed now that Javi is gone. She seems happier too. He's a decent guy, but he would drive me nuts with his questions & accusations. He doesn't trust her with anyone, not even Jo. Without trust, it's not gonna work. Also, they both seem wrapped up in themselves & the kids- but not each other. 

[Darknight]

7 hours ago, SPLAIN said:

@StatisticalOutlier for some reason I am unable to quote your post.

My recollection about Barb acquiring custody of Jace was due to Jenelle leaving him in her care constantly. Barb did not volunteer in the sense that she thought she could do better than Jenelle. Shit, a lioness could do a better job at mothering Jace than Jenelle. Jenelle would not give up Jace for adoption. Jenelle dumped Jace in her mother's care to the point Barb needed to legally do something about the situation. Barb had hoped Jenelle would get her shit together so she could then hand Jace back to her. That has not happened as we all know. Barb is essentially stuck with being Jace's guardian because what else can she do? I do not always agree with how Barb handles her grandson and I cringe at some of her scenes, but I just wanted to point out this was not something Barb volunteered for as much as she was put in a predicament that she had hoped was temporary due to Jenelle telling her mom she was not capable of caring for her son. 

She begged Jenelle to place him for adoption. She refused. Then had the nerve to say Jace doesn't need her because he has Babs. 

When David said Jace needed a father figure so he won't grow up a girl. What a dick!

Why do fans keep defendingLeah and Jenelle. And attacking Babs and Cory/Miranda

Edited May 26, 2016 by Darknight

[lezlers]

1 hour ago, Lexie said:

It's partially her fault because if it would make Aubree happy to have Adam there Chelsea could have texted him the specifics and told him that Aubree would like to go with him.  Cole sure Knew the details, do you think he got them from the school website in an effort to prove that he wanted to go and deserved to be there ?     Chelsea wanted Aubree to go wih Cole instead and that's what makes her an asshole in this situation to me.  Nobody is saying that Adam is super involved with aubrees school or even arguing that he should be.  How could he be when he is not even allowed to go get her from school?   Chelsea wants Adams contact with Aubree to be limited and supervised so it is her job to fill him in on the details and make arrangements if she wanted him to be there for Aubree.  Which she doesn't.  

Chelsea and Cole are living together as a family unit.  She does not have to do for Adam what she does for Cole.  Adam is Aubree's father.  If he wants to be involved in Aubree's life, he needs to make a modicum of effort.  It is not Chelsea's responsibility to follow him around begging him to acknowledge her.  He couldn't even be bothered to respond to Chelsea's text.  That takes next to zero effort.  I bet if someone from the gym texted him about how many reps they should be doing to bulk up their quads he'd be all over that because he cares about THAT.  His little six year old daughter who wants to go to a daddy daughter dance with him?  Fuck that, man.  He's got a bodybuilding competition to attend!  The guy is a grade a douchebag.  I don't blame Chelsea for wanting Aubree to go with Cole.  I would too in her situation.  Her own piece of shit father can't even attend a function without his tweaky looking entourage with him as he stares sullenly at his phone the whole time.  Cole actually engages with her and has fun with her and makes the event about HER, not him.  Why WOULDN'T Chelsea prefer Aubree to be with Cole?  Can't fault her for that.  All she really needed to do was inform Adam about the dance.  Nothing more.   To require any more from her is to just put her in the position of being responsible for following around Adumb, begging him to be a half decent father and human being.  That is not her responsibility.  Not even a little bit.  To make it her responsibility is to just enable Adumb and his douchebag ways. 

[Darknight]

6 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

But Barb wasn't just put in the predicament; she had a big hand in it.  She told Jenelle she wouldn't take care of the kid, but she did anyway.  In that sense, I feel she volunteered because she chose not to make Jenelle take care of Jace. 

There was an episode of 16&P (maybe two?) where the parents insisted that they would not take care of the baby and the daughter believed it and gave the baby up for adoption.  Traumatic for all involved, but at least there's a chance that the baby found its way into a decent home.  Jace was never even given that chance because Barbara prevented it from happening, and I think she owes him.

Adoption and foster care are far from perfect, and there are definitely no guarantees.  But if Jace were living this very life within the foster care system, it would be used as an example of the failing of the system, that a child would be placed in such a harmful, toxic atmosphere.

Jenelle would have left Jace alone by himself crying before she put Jace up for adoption. Heck she would've left him with the damn dogs expecting them to care for Jace. Babs had to step up. What else was she going to do? Maybe she thought by now Jenelle would have her shit together. 

Edited May 26, 2016 by Darknight

[lezlers]

59 minutes ago, Lexie said:

Why does Cole not have to get his phone out and look it up?  I also don't believe that Chelsea didn't know when or where it would be when she first told Adam.  If she even told Adam.  

Because Cole lives with Aubree and she probably brought a notice home.  Cole has no responsibility towards Aubree anyway, I'm having trouble following the relevance of the question.  And I'm sure if Chelsea never texted Adam, he would've been screaming it from the rooftops.  You know she texted him.  That was all she was required to do (not even that, really, but it's the nice thing to do.)  Adam is not a child.  He is a grown ass adult and a father.  He needs to start acting like one.

34 minutes ago, shelley1005 said:

Adam couldn't even be bothered to answer Chelsea's text about the dance at all...and just left his daughter hanging as to whether or not he would be there because he had a weight lifting competition.  That's not being a dad, so I am glad her dad that shows up for her went to the dance with her.

WORD.  I am astounded at all the Adumb defending here.  Guess the bar for being a decent father is a LOT lower than I ever imagined.

Edited May 25, 2016 by lezlers

[charmed1]

1 hour ago, Lexie said:

Personally I think both twins need to see someone to talk about their feelings and all the bullshit upheaval they have been through in their lives   

I agree. Out of all the kids on this show, Ali is probably the last one I'd shrug off as Eh, jus jellus. I believe Ali just as much as I believe Jace when he says Jenelle and Big Stupid complain about his presence (even though Jenelle claims he lied). I believe her just as much as I believe Aubree when she says Adam doesn't pay any attention to her. And I believe her as much as I believe lil Leah when she says Amber sleeps all day. Miranda may have been very nice in the little bit of time she's been on camera, but she's not above reproach and whatever she said to Ali clearly upset her. It most likely wasn't intentional, but Ali is entitled to her feelings and she's articulate enough to express them. It's the adults in this situation, namely Leah's stupid family, who handled this all wrong. Not the six year old.

[Mkay]

18 minutes ago, lezlers said:

Chelsea and Cole are living together as a family unit.  She does not have to do for Adam what she does for Cole.  Adam is Aubree's father.  If he wants to be involved in Aubree's life, he needs to make a modicum of effort.  It is not Chelsea's responsibility to follow him around begging him to acknowledge her.  He couldn't even be bothered to respond to Chelsea's text.  That takes next to zero effort.  I bet if someone from the gym texted him about how many reps they should be doing to bulk up their quads he'd be all over that because he cares about THAT.  His little six year old daughter who wants to go to a daddy daughter dance with him?  Fuck that, man.  He's got a bodybuilding competition to attend!  The guy is a grade a douchebag.  I don't blame Chelsea for wanting Aubree to go with Cole.  I would too in her situation.  Her own piece of shit father can't even attend a function without his tweaky looking entourage with him as he stares sullenly at his phone the whole time.  Cole actually engages with her and has fun with her and makes the event about HER, not him.  Why WOULDN'T Chelsea prefer Aubree to be with Cole?  Can't fault her for that.  All she really needed to do was inform Adam about the dance.  Nothing more.   To require any more from her is to just put her in the position of being responsible for following around Adumb, begging him to be a half decent father and human being.  That is not her responsibility.  Not even a little bit.  To make it her responsibility is to just enable Adumb and his douchebag ways. 

Yes!! You just word things so much better than me. 

 

Of course Adam got the text.  He acknowledges that when he responds to Aubree in the next episode when he says he didn't go because "he has this" meaning his gym/workouts.  All he had to do is respond to the text in one way or another.

He says himself, "I'm not going to change." 

Edited May 25, 2016 by Mkay

[Cosmocrush]

On 5/24/2016 at 9:09 AM, Chicken Wing said:

 

But he's [Adumb]  the dad who not only had to be informed of things but has to be reminded and prompted to actually do something about it. That sucks, but that's the situation. And it is a situation Chelsea dug for herself because she picked him as her child's father, and she's stuck with him, and when he can't step up and do the work he's supposed to do it is unfortunately the case that she will have to pick up some of the slack for him -- not because she owes him anything, because she owes him jack shit, but because she owes it to Aubree to try to let her dad participate. Especially when Aubree specifically said she wanted him to go..

...He [Cole] is not a replacement for Adam and you can't use him as an excuse to write Adam off because you've got a "new dad" for Aubree and he isn't "needed" anymore. He never was needed, frankly, but he's never going to stop being Aubree's dad so at some point they're going to have to let it sink in that he's not going to go away no matter how perfectly fine they all would be without him.

Despite basically becoming another reality show, in this respect, I think Teen Mom2 still has one last lesson to teach to the young women who are still watching it; a lesson Chelsea clearly learned the hard way:   Be very careful who you choose to have a child with because it matters.  I don't really fault Chelsea for 'choosing' Adumb because  she was 16!*[ I can't even imagine what my life would look like if I had tied myself for life to the boy I liked at that age but it wouldn't be good I know that.]   What's important is that Chelsea figured out that this bad decision didn't just affect her life but her adored daughter's life as well.  

Chelsea has said on more than one occasion [long before she met Cole] that she felt terrible and guilty that Aubree has such a shitshow for a father.  Chelsea got the lesson.  And just going by what I see on this show,  it seems likely that  Cole will be Aubree's father in every way that matters.  I hope one day Chelsea can give herself some credit for holding out for a man that truly loves her and is good to her and her child.

 

* I know there are exceptions and stories of high school sweethearts together and doing well 20 years later but in general that's not the case. 

Edited May 26, 2016 by Cosmocrush

[mywinston]

I remember in earlier seasons of TM2 when it was becoming very evident that Adam would foerver be ~98% full of shit at all times, Chelsea would talk to Randy about how saw it made her. I especially think having Randy always there for her as a child, and then having that to compare to the puke puddle Adam is was quite the reality check for her early on. But she did a semi admirable job of pulling herself together, taking good advice, and finding a passable guy.

Adam, however, remains puke puddle-y.

[Lexie]

Yeah kind of like how kail thought javi would replace jo and they would all live happily ever after while no kicked rocks.   Except it didn't actually happen that way.    

[Cosmocrush]

56 minutes ago, lezlers said:

Chelsea and Cole are living together as a family unit.  She does not have to do for Adam what she does for Cole.  Adam is Aubree's father.  If he wants to be involved in Aubree's life, he needs to make a modicum of effort.

Great point @lezlers.  And I couldn't help but think of Jo (and Vee) who moved across a couple states to be involved in his child's life.  I've known several fathers that have done the same thing for the same reasons when their child's mother got a great job across country or her husband did.  Not that every father can do that but Adumb doesn't even have a geographical excuse.   Until very recently, he didn't even have a job. 

[shelley1234]

3 minutes ago, Lexie said:

Yeah kind of like how kail thought javi would replace jo and they would all live happily ever after while no kicked rocks.   Except it didn't actually happen that way.    

Yeah, except for Jo is an active parent in the life of his child.  No one can make that case for Adam.  

I'd also say there is a world of difference between Javi and Cole as well.  So I think the comparison just doesn't pass the sniff test all around. 

[ReadMeLattice]

If Jo had a job or went to school, he couldn't have moved so easily. Nice for Isaac, but not the greatest role model all around. 

[GreatKazu]

3 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

But Barb wasn't just put in the predicament; she had a big hand in it.  She told Jenelle she wouldn't take care of the kid, but she did anyway.  In that sense, I feel she volunteered because she chose not to make Jenelle take care of Jace. 

There was an episode of 16&P (maybe two?) where the parents insisted that they would not take care of the baby and the daughter believed it and gave the baby up for adoption.  Traumatic for all involved, but at least there's a chance that the baby found its way into a decent home.  Jace was never even given that chance because Barbara prevented it from happening, and I think she owes him.

Adoption and foster care are far from perfect, and there are definitely no guarantees.  But if Jace were living this very life within the foster care system, it would be used as an example of the failing of the system, that a child would be placed in such a harmful, toxic atmosphere.

Barbara CHOSE not to let Jace be in the care of a girl who likely would have dragged her child to every drug den available. Barbara likely struggled at the idea of leaving Jace with Jenelle, turn her back on him, only to regret that choice after something horrible happened to him. So many of us on this board want to take Kaiser from Jenelle and provide him much needed love and care. Barbara likely had those same feelings as she watched her daughter neglect and ignore Jace. I do not see it as her having volunteered to raise Jace. I see it as a parent who was desperate to give that child a legal parent. Barbara works and she is the one with health insurance, not Jenelle. Barb had make a quick decision, and leaving Jace with Jenelle would constitute leaving Jace to be on his own. God forbid what people he would have been surrounded by and what they might do to him. Being around junkies or be with grandma? Barb had no choice.

 

I agree Chelsea is not responsible for Adumb. What lengths a spouse does for the other spouse is one thing, but in this situation, Adumb needs to step up and do his damn job. He only wants to play dad during his court appearances and on MTV. Chelsea has credibility. When she states Adumb is not around during the off season, I believe her. 

That Ali scene reeks of manipulation from Leah's family. It sucks so bad because Ali has feelings. She may have felt for that moment that she felt ignored by the adults, many kids do, but some clodhopper took that moment, grabbed their cell phone and pushed Ali to repeat what she said earlier. 

[GreatKazu]

1 hour ago, lezlers said:

Chelsea and Cole are living together as a family unit.  She does not have to do for Adam what she does for Cole.  Adam is Aubree's father.  If he wants to be involved in Aubree's life, he needs to make a modicum of effort.  It is not Chelsea's responsibility to follow him around begging him to acknowledge her.  He couldn't even be bothered to respond to Chelsea's text.  That takes next to zero effort.  I bet if someone from the gym texted him about how many reps they should be doing to bulk up their quads he'd be all over that because he cares about THAT.  His little six year old daughter who wants to go to a daddy daughter dance with him?  Fuck that, man.  He's got a bodybuilding competition to attend!  The guy is a grade a douchebag.  I don't blame Chelsea for wanting Aubree to go with Cole.  I would too in her situation.  Her own piece of shit father can't even attend a function without his tweaky looking entourage with him as he stares sullenly at his phone the whole time.  Cole actually engages with her and has fun with her and makes the event about HER, not him.  Why WOULDN'T Chelsea prefer Aubree to be with Cole?  Can't fault her for that.  All she really needed to do was inform Adam about the dance.  Nothing more.   To require any more from her is to just put her in the position of being responsible for following around Adumb, begging him to be a half decent father and human being.  That is not her responsibility.  Not even a little bit.  To make it her responsibility is to just enable Adumb and his douchebag ways. 

Word! Well put.

[CofCinci]

10 minutes ago, Lm2162 said:

If Jo had a job or went to school, he couldn't have moved so easily. Nice for Isaac, but not the greatest role model all around. 

Jo has a job.  These songs don't just write themselves.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

My (armchair) diagnosis of Jenelle's "medical issues": North Carolina/her doctors/the pharmacies caught on that she had multiple Rxs for Benzos and cut her off AND she wants David or his sister to watch Kaiser so she can sleep/play video games. However, I'm holding out hope that some of those symptoms (hot flashes, etc) are true and Jenelle is going through a super early menopause because the universe knows she doesn't need to have any more kids. 

When Cole came out of the room and asked "Where's my dancing partner?," my tiny, Grinch-sized heart grew three sizes. I'm glad Aubree has him in her life (and Chelsea too).

I guess Miranda should just set her baby down on the ground while she carries in Ali's school bag, since clearly not carrying in a school bag is the absolute worst form of child abuse that the Messers have ever heard of - worse than driving with your kids all over the hills high, not feeding your kids, or putting your child who is not supposed to physically exert herself in t-ball. 

When Victoria said that Miranda didn't push the twins through her hooha I wanted to yell at the TV: "Technically neither did Leah! She had a c-section!" (I'm not implying that women who have had C-sections or have adopted children are any less as moms/women. It just aggravated me that this seemed to be the criteria Victoria was using to bash Miranda when technically Leah doesn't even fit that criteria.) Also....ever since I had a baby (13+ hours of labor with 2 hours pushing, a nearly 10lb baby, messed up pelvic floor/bladder, a peretenial tear and an inner labia tear), I can't even deal with people reducing birth to "pushing a baby out through your hoo-hah" or "popping the baby out." Then there's the Lochia and recovery. And if you have a c-section, the recovery is supposed to be even more intense. Don't even try to make it sound like someone simply pushes or pops the baby out. Bitch will see when she has a baby. (That's just become a pet peeve of mine since I gave birth.)

Kail: nothing more to add that hasn't been said. 

Edited May 26, 2016 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[Cosmocrush]

40 minutes ago, CofCinci said:

Jo has a job.  These songs don't just write themselves.

LOL!  

[Christina]

For some reason, I can't get the video to play on MTV's site to quote it exactly, but the way I remember it, Chastity said the backpack was too heavy, not Ali. Chasity had some leading question and Ali responds that when she asked Miranda to take the backpack, Miranda said she had Rebi, and Chastity squeaks in something about it being too heavy and Ali says yes and follows with a comment that Rebi get's all the attention. 

It stood out to me because I wondered what she could possibly have in her backpack to make it heavy. At that age, it's some loose papers and your lunchbox. She may have said it before filming and Chastity had to get it in when she re-questioned her to film it, but to me, Ali's entire complaint was about Rebi getting all of the attention, which is a normal "new" child concern, and she responded yes to Chastity saying it was too heavy because she knew that was the correct answer. We haven't seen a lot of Miranda, but what we have seen leads me to believe that she wouldn't have made Ali carry a full, heavy backpack. I don't think she would have made Gracie carry one, either, but would tell them she would be back for it if they needed help. 

If we ignore the obvious (to us) drug issues, and take Leah at her word about her crippling anxiety, which even made her call Victoria to pick the kids up from school earlier this season, both Chastity and Victoria's behavior regarding this video is outrageous. Filming and coaching a kid to saying something bad about her stepmom (Chastity), then insisting Leah call and curse Miranda out (Victoria) is in no way helpful for Leah's mental state. They created a mountain out of a molehill in an effort to make Miranda look bad, and even if 100% true and she made Ali carry a heavy backpack, Leah's mental state can't handle it. 

[Lexie]

1 hour ago, shelley1005 said:

Yeah, except for Jo is an active parent in the life of his child.  No one can make that case for Adam.  

I'd also say there is a world of difference between Javi and Cole as well.  So I think the comparison just doesn't pass the sniff test all around. 

 

But my point was that these new relationships might not work out and statistically they probably won't.   So I don't think it's a great idea to shove Cole into the daddy role so soon. Shoving Cole into that spot isn't necessarily the answer to how Aubree is probably going to have major daddy issues.   

It it doesn't really matter how you perceive javi vs Cole.  Kail was so sure at the time but things change sometimes too.  

[GreatKazu]

4 hours ago, lezlers said:

Truth.  I'm loathe to take Leah's side on ANYTHING but I had those same thoughts.  He's primary custodian.  Doctor's appointments and the like fall into his domain now.  Incidentally, I go through the same thing with my husband and our kids.  Apparently possessing a vagina magically makes you the one responsible for doctor's appointments, school events, ect.   Doesn't matter what the work/home situation is.  Vagina = YOUR JOB.

 Her job, as she has mentioned many times, is to take care of the girls. I think it is unfair to paint Cory as some guy who thinks it is the mother's job to care for children when he has been shown countless times caring for his children. In their 16 & Pregnant episode, Leah went out to party while Cory stayed home and tended to the girls who were 7 weeks old. Cory had to do the laundry because Leah is a lazy bitch. Cory cleaned house because Leah was with her friends. This matter about the doctor appointment was not an argument between these two. It was a discussion about Ali's weight with Cory informing Leah about his concerns. He asked Leah to mention it at Ali's NEXT appointment IN CASE HE COULD NOT GO. He did not tell Leah to call the doctor.

Why were the girlses not with Leah when Ali complained about the backpack? If this had been Cory who dumped his girlses with someone else...

Edited May 26, 2016 by GreatKazu