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S22.E09: Week 9

radishcake

By radishcake
in Dancing With The Stars

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fishcakes

fishcakes

Ginger's package was hilarious. "After my parents got divorced, I used to look at the sky and that's how I realized I was passionate about cold fronts and stuff." Not to mention the other meteorologists talking about what a weather prodigy Ginger was. "She was on the air in Chicago only six years after being an intern!" It was like watching a tribute to my CPA.

I'll watch the finale because I'm a completist, but I couldn't care less who wins. This is probably the last time I'll watch a season when going into it I don't know or don't care about any of the celebs. I always think someone I don't know might capture my attention the way Hines Ward did way back when, but it never happens anymore probably because they're not just scraping the bottom of the fame barrel now, they're actively digging in the ground underneath the barrel. If the "stars" are going to be this lackluster, I can't see the show going on much longer. When the finale contestants are an MMA fighter who most people have never heard of, the winner of a different reality show who most people have never heard of, and a network employee, it's time to pack it in.

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Mockingbird
Mockingbird

I'm so glad we were treated to Paige, Alan, and Erin giggling like high schoolers about dating drama for a good three minutes that could have been used to let Wanya and Antonio say good-bye.

radishcake
radishcake

Wow. You guys will notice a LOT of hidden posts and edits in this thread. First, this is not twitter and we should not have lots of posts during the show live blogging it. That's my mistake and w

Stitsch
Stitsch

How in the ever living freak did Ginger stay over Wanya? Unbelievable. If she makes it over Paige...

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Thadeeeyus

Thadeeeyus

(edited)
14 hours ago, RedFiat said:

Like I said earlier, if the show wants to appeal to all demographics and not just blue haired ladies, then it would have been a tad more sensitive to eliminate people in a way that doesn't lump all the African Americans together as if they're all just a bunch of losers.  Since there's only one winner, the order of elimination is really at the whim of the producers...

My opinion: That wasn't the plan.  The plan all along was for Wanya to make finals ahead of Paige, but the screw-ups in the previous week's dance were so obvious that they had to mark him down somewhat.  Even so, he wasn't marked down that much and one judge even gave him the same score as Paige.  They could have easily given Paige all 10's like other pairs, but marked her down a bit in hopes that enough audience votes would come through for Wanya.  I was shocked last night that Paige made finals.  

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 I watched the season where Oscar winner Marlee Matlin was on, she wasn't a natural but she worked ten times harder than Nyle to master technique, had one mediocre dance where she lost timing because she couldn't feel the vibration, and she was gone. So if I'm amused at a model who half asses the technique to try "crazy things"  then so be it.  I'm just not that "inspired" by those who half ass their way to winning. 

Yes!  All season I've been thinking about Marlee who was one of my all-time favorite contestants.  She was a beautiful dancer but halfway through the season, started to get comments indicating they were ready for her to go.  No special treatment there.  A very classy lady. 

Edited by Thadeeeyus
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grandpabob1

grandpabob1

There is no way Ginger is a better dancer then the boys to men dancer he get all 10's Jody Gets all 10's and there gone this is a bunch of bs. THE FIX is in how could she lose, she works for ABC. And she knew it last night VAL wispered some to her and she agreed. We could do all the voting you want but ABC controls who move's on, its call RATINGS. 

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howmanywords

howmanywords

(edited)

I'm indifferent towards Ginger. She's just sort of there for me and she doesnt bother me all that much.  I'm certainly not going to blame her though for Wanya not making it to the finale.  Blame the people like me who enjoyed Wanya but didn't vote. By showing him in jeopardy/the bottom two weeks in a row the show was letting people know that he wasnt the frontrunner many thought he was as far as voting went. Then last week IMO is what really sunk him.  I think if he had a showstopper dance LAST week it may have saved him. He just didn't have the kind of passionate fanbase that rallies around their favorite when they see they need votes. Wanya wasnt the first and wont be the last great dancer who got robbed of his rightful place being there at the very end.

All that said I do believe Paige is the best dancer remaining.  Going strictly on week to week progress and standout dances I think she should win. But I have a feeling short of completely falling on his ass Nyle is going to take this especially if my gut is right and his freestyle ends up being some super emotional, tearjerker Comtemporary.

eta: Nyle and Peta's AT is only posted 12 hours on the DWTS FB page and it already has over a million views.  To put this into perspective, how insane that is - it just needs a few thousand to surpass the views on Paige and Mark's awesome, much talked about Jive that was posted two weeks ago.

Edited by howmanywords
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devonshiredeb

devonshiredeb

Let's all just realize that if we are giving the best dancer the win here, then it should be Paige. (Wanya would have been second)  Ginger is just meh and Nyles is just okay (not counting the obvious overscoring of the triple dance).  So if I were to watch or vote - which I will not do either for this finale - I would be pulling for the BEST Dancer.

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Hiacios

Hiacios

3 minutes ago, devonshiredeb said:

Let's all just realize that if we are giving the best dancer the win here, then it should be Paige. (Wanya would have been second)  Ginger is just meh and Nyles is just okay (not counting the obvious overscoring of the triple dance).  So if I were to watch or vote - which I will not do either for this finale - I would be pulling for the BEST Dancer.

Nyle is the best dancer left imo, and should take the MBT.

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LadyMustang65

LadyMustang65

26 minutes ago, Thadeeeyus said:

Yes!  All season I've been thinking about Marlee who was one of my all-time favorite contestants.  She was a beautiful dancer but halfway through the season, started to get comments indicating they were ready for her to go.  No special treatment there.  A very classy lady. 

She really was a great contestant.  I liked Heather Mills as well.  It would be really nice if they would go back to treating differently-abled contestants like everyone else and not feel they have to make them into these inspirational idols that they put up on a pedestal.  :\

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sinkwriter

sinkwriter

Paige is one who has grown on me. I wasn't sure I'd care one way or another about her, I'm not a fight fan of any kind so that aspect about her didn't draw me in (though I did find it interesting to see her get more comfortable with Mark and more comfortable with dancing sexy or sweet dances instead of just the "strong" dances). I think she first won me over with that really cool cage fight dance, and again with the Tina Turner routine, and ever since then she's been on my short list for who I wanted to see in the finals. Mark's a lot of things (and that ponytail / man-bun is driving me up a wall, LOL), but he is a very creative choreographer and I've enjoyed his partnership with Paige.

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Hiacios

Hiacios

3 minutes ago, sinkwriter said:

Paige is one who has grown on me. I wasn't sure I'd care one way or another about her, I'm not a fight fan of any kind so that aspect about her didn't draw me in (though I did find it interesting to see her get more comfortable with Mark and more comfortable with dancing sexy or sweet dances instead of just the "strong" dances). I think she first won me over with that really cool cage fight dance, and again with the Tina Turner routine, and ever since then she's been on my short list for who I wanted to see in the finals. Mark's a lot of things (and that ponytail / man-bun is driving me up a wall, LOL), but he is a very creative choreographer and I've enjoyed his partnership with Paige.

Well said.

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howmanywords

howmanywords

4 minutes ago, Missy Vixen said:

I don't care for Ginger and her husband really, really bugs.

Nyle will win because it's all about who can go on the DWTS tour or make appearances when the season is over...

That isnt always the case though.  Bindi didn't go on tour or make many appearances. Alek ended up being the one who went on tour last season and he came in 3rd.

sinkwriter

sinkwriter

Ginger has been a "nice" dancer. She does well, holds her own and keeps up with Val. But she doesn't really grab me one way or another, most weeks. I find myself just saying, "That was nice." This week was the first time I felt like she belonged in the finals. The attitude she displayed in the trio dance was strong and sharp, and much more fierce than she was able to do with the Janet Jackson routine - if only she'd had that intense energy for that one! And I thought her quickstep with Val was energetic and seemed like they were having so much fun together that it made me smile. That counts for something in my book. 

But overall I haven't been bowled over by her from week to week. I've just felt she was "fine, good, nice."

I think I'd much rather see Paige win. Or Nyle, just because I think it's been much more challenging for him and he does well. I loved his blindfold dance with Peta - yes, it's gimmicky but I think they have a terrific partnership and that dance showed how well they work together. I would have loved to have seen him do the entire routine blindfolded. I think he could have done it; with Peta that close and guiding him, it could have been really amazing. 

I like watching his routines with Peta and I like watching Paige's routines with Mark. Out of the final 3, that's who I'm rooting for. I just wish Wanya had been there instead of Ginger. Nothing against Ginger personally; I just enjoyed watching Wanya dance more.

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skyways

skyways

(edited)

Well Peta has tried the 'blindfold' routine, the 'silence! no music' routine, I wonder what she will do for free style. If she makes it too full of content, he might stumble, if she makes it too simple she will risk showing us what we have seen before. Is it a coincidence that Nyle seems to have done mostly ballroom, slower dances?? I truly don't know how he dances the Latin, faster dances. If the Jive and Paso are any indication, Peta will do well to avoid the faster dances.

Edited by skyways
iMonrey

iMonrey

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Mark's choreo for that AT was incredible, but his hairstyle is so distracting and makes him look podgy and unnecessarily big-nosed.  To my eyes, he was just so profoundly un-sexy it really took away from the performance for me.

For the life of me I do not understand how a "man-bun" became an actual thing. And I can't decide if Mark's hair looks worse in the bun or out of it. I don't get it - he's not a bad looking guy, so why does he do things that just make him look weird? And you hit the nail on the head - it's distracting. Both of his and Paige's dances tonight were wonderful but I kept looking at Mark's dumb hair.

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And Nyle isn't nearly as good as he's been given credit for. His dances tonight were particularly messy. That jive was a hot mess

I wouldn't go so far as to say it was a "hot mess." There were definitely parts that looked sloppy and unpolished. But there were some very good steps in there too. I think the choreo was overly ambitious and throwing in an extra partner just made it more challenging for Nyle. I think there are limits to what he can reasonably do.

And I do think the blindfolded section in the AT, as well as the silent section of the dance a couple weeks ago, were gimmicks that Peta very shrewdly threw into the number in order to elicit an emotional response to cover a lack of technique. Nyle is definitely the least "polished" of the final three.

That said, all my votes go to Nyle. Paige and Ginger are both better dancers but I think Nyle is the most impressive dancer.

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I didn't like Brooke Burke much but she wasn't nearly as off putting as Erin.

Honestly - at least Brooke was poised. Erin is always bouncing off the walls and falling over herself. This "are you dating? are you dating? when are you going to kiss?" crap has got to stop.

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LennieBriscoe

LennieBriscoe

As I said, Nyle is on a mission, one supported (apparently) by the show.

Was he the best model on ANTM? Where are the objective criteria? Same for DWTS. If "best absolute dancer" were the criterion, non-pro viewers wouldn't be allowed to vote.

Dancing, like every art beyond painting-by-numbers or singing-by-following-the-bouncing-ball (Boomer reference, heh), involves more than perfect posture, pointed toes, and precise steps. It includes emotion, attitude, creativity, and, with the best, charisma. Maybe Nyle couldn't "progress" more with his actual dancing; maybe he has reached his limit of movement by sheer memorization,  now that the episodes involve multiple dances.

But I maintain that he has progressed with his emotional output and his (and Peta's)  creativity. As for charisma, ....!!

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tessaforever

tessaforever

10 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

Maks seems to be in a lot of Nyle's rehearsal clips. Can we ever get rid of him? He wanted to leave the show,,,so leave !

I thought it was hilarious that the caption said "Peta's fiance" - how about DWTS Season 18 winner?? I mean, it's actually cute that they'd put it that way, but funny. 

I see that Ginger took some notes from her online detractors: don't mention your baby at all (thank goodness!), also her husband toned it waaayyy down. I don't dislike her, but she's not a better dancer than Wanya. 

I'm an insomniac and when I lie awake in bed the night of DWTS, I usually play the show back in my mind and think over all of the dances. Last night, I know that there were some great performances, but all I could think of were Mark and Paige! And I'm not even a huge Mark fan...I just think they danced on a different level from everyone else. While she came in with some great dance skills (as so many of the celebs do), I have seen growth in her connection with Mark and her trust of him and his choreography. 

I never watched Nyle on ANTM, so all I know of him is this show. He has beautiful eyes and seems like a nice guy; I just find him incredibly boring. Last night explained all that - I've never had a math teacher with an interesting personality! 

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ChicksDigScars

ChicksDigScars

The year that they decided to stop the Tuesday night results show, the shenanigans got even easier to mask. Wanya gets perfect scores, but do they mean jack shit now that he's gone? They would have counted toward the Finale had he stayed, correct? LAST WEEK'S scores are what determined his fate THIS WEEK. And as we know, we had the Great Bandana Mishap last week. I don't like the results being on the same night as the dances. I never have. I want the performances and scores that were earned on Monday, determine who goes THIS WEEK, not next week. 

Nyle must have the online votes down, because actually, his judges scores are lower than Paige and Ginger's. He got all 9's in the his first dance (Trio) last night and then a 30 in the second, if memory serves. I think Paige, at least, was higher. 

I never watched Nyle on ANTM, so all I know of him is this show. He has beautiful eyes and seems like a nice guy; I just find him incredibly boring. Last night explained all that - I've never had a math teacher with an interesting personality!

I can't get over his twin brother, the pale skinned, red headed, Ed Sheeran lookalike! (I decided against referring to him as a Ginger, because....well, you know why).

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Vinyasa

Vinyasa

Quote

I thought it was hilarious that the caption said "Peta's fiance" - how about DWTS Season 18 winner?? I mean, it's actually cute that they'd put it that way, but funny. 

Why is he even hanging around? He did the "guest judge" so I think that is enough. At least they did have "Karina's ex-fiancé".

I do think the season is so much better with Len than Julianne as a  judge.

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truthaboutluv

truthaboutluv

(edited)
Quote

The year that they decided to stop the Tuesday night results show, the shenanigans got even easier to mask. Wanya gets perfect scores, but do they mean jack shit now that he's gone? They would have counted toward the Finale had he stayed, correct? LAST WEEK'S scores are what determined his fate THIS WEEK. And as we know, we had the Great Bandana Mishap last week. I don't like the results being on the same night as the dances. I never have. I want the performances and scores that were earned on Monday, determine who goes THIS WEEK, not next week. 

I hear you but blame ABC. They felt the ratings for the Tuesday night results show weren't high enough to justify keeping it on and so now we have this. Incidentally, they've struggled to get a hit show on Tuesday night for years so I'm not sure cancelling the results show made way for anything amazing but it is what it is. As for what happens to Wanya's perfect scores and Antonio's as well - they're all just thrown out. Their numbers no longer exist because they're not in the competition anymore. That's why some said it would have been tricky for the show to bring Alexa back after Tamar pulled out because once Alexa was booted, her number was shut down. So basically she wouldn't really have any votes anyway and would just be booted again immediately. 

 

Quote

Nyle must have the online votes down, because actually, his judges scores are lower than Paige and Ginger's. He got all 9's in the his first dance (Trio) last night and then a 30 in the second, if memory serves. I think Paige, at least, was higher. 

He's a point ahead of Ginger. Ginger got all 9's for her first dance and two 10's and a 9 for her second, while Nyle got all 9's for his first and a perfect score for his second dance. 

Edited by truthaboutluv
anonymiss

anonymiss

(edited)
1 hour ago, truthaboutluv said:

Bindi went back to her life and zoo in Australia right after DWTS and that's where she's been ever since until two weeks or so ago when she came back to LA and attended the show the last two Monday nights.

Why on Earth did the TPTB want her to win so badly then? Is she not following the plan or did they need Derek to leave on another win or something else? You'd think they'd have been pushing for Nick more than her because he's a much bigger name.

Edited by anonymiss
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truthaboutluv

truthaboutluv

I really don't want to get bogged back down into the whole Bindi/TPTB saga but I think she is a perfect example of the whole chicken and the egg thing. So many wanted to be convinced that the show was pushing her because of some agenda and maybe what it was is that Bindi had the viewer support and fans so the producers went where the voters were.

This notion of some big plans for Bindi pursuing some kind of fame that the producers were pimping her for or whatever always seemed to be more of people's own conspiracy and need to spin stuff about whoever they weren't rooting for. Bindi never gave any impression that she had any plans to do anything but go back to Australia and her animals, once the show was over. 

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Hiacios

Hiacios

1 hour ago, boyznkatz said:

Maks does need to go away. At least Derek knows what that means.

Speaking of people who need to go away, why oh why is Bindi Irwin always hanging around dwts? I thought she was supposed to happen after the way the judges fawned on her last season. I guess she didn't??

I used to like Bindi before I got to see her on DWTS, but now I can't stand her! As S21 went on I started to see where it was going with her real fast, Bindi new that she was not known very well in America so she played her dead dad card really hard to win that season. smh. To me she's fake and very annoying. 

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boyznkatz

boyznkatz

3 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

I really don't want to get bogged back down into the whole Bindi/TPTB saga but I think she is a perfect example of the whole chicken and the egg thing. So many wanted to be convinced that the show was pushing her because of some agenda and maybe what it was is that Bindi had the viewer support and fans so the producers went where the voters were.

This notion of some big plans for Bindi pursuing some kind of fame that the producers were pimping her for or whatever always seemed to be more of people's own conspiracy and need to spin stuff about whoever they weren't rooting for. Bindi never gave any impression that she had any plans to do anything but go back to Australia and her animals, once the show was over. 

The thing is, viewers didn't seem to care much for her, just like they don't seem too fond of Ginger and Melissa R. and most of the other people they pimped. I do think they wanted to give Bindi a show or do something with her, but something fell through. If she wanted to live quietly in Australia, then why come here? It's funny how all the people who become finalists on dwts talk about all these "offers" they are pouring through, yet none of them amount to much. I always thought J.R. Martinez would have been a star after winning his season, but he faded away as well.

sinkwriter

sinkwriter

*raises hand* I liked Bindi. She didn't bother me. She was sunny and fun to watch. Yeah, sometimes they talked about her dad too much, but I didn't find it as intrusive as some.

And I generally like Ginger. She seems like a nice woman. And her husband cheering so hard for her doesn't bother me one bit - I think about my own family and how enthusiastically they would cheer me on, and what Ginger's husband does doesn't seem over the top at all to me. He's just excited for her. It's a little dorky, but sometimes I'm a dork too, so... *shrugs

I've got no issue with Ginger. I just don't root for her to win because there are other dancers that I think are more fun/exciting/interesting to watch. 

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Hiacios

Hiacios

(edited)
21 minutes ago, anonymiss said:

Why on Earth did the TPTB want her to win so badly then? Is she not following the plan or did they need Derek to leave on another win or something else? You'd think they'd have been pushing for Nick more than her because he's a much bigger name.

I thought that Nick & Sharna would win the whole thing from the very begining, but as it went on I noticed how they started underscoring Nick and overscoring Bindi. I then realized that it was rigged for Bindi & Derek to win. SMH.

Edited by Hiacios
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Stitsch

Stitsch

1 hour ago, boyznkatz said:

Maks does need to go away. At least Derek knows what that means.

Wait, what? Isn't Derek the one that said, "no, just kidding!!!!" after promising to take a season off?

Still think it's a travesty that Ginger is there over Wanya, but I'm slowly coming to accept it. Val's fanbase probably put her there. Speaking of, I'm not loving him this season - not sure why. Either way, I'm assuming Ginger's freestyle will be campy, Nyle's will be some melodramatic tearjearker, and Paige will be dressed up as a gorilla. Wait, wrong season. But I'm assuming it'll be weird... in a good way. 

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katha

katha

I thought Bindi was overscored and pushed hard. But I also thought that it was somewhat organic with her, in the sense that she had her father's death (awful as it is, tragedy and tears sells well on DWTS) as a story, she's the kind of extrovert, yet harmless and preppy and wholesome persona DWTS viewers like in their female contestants, she had a bit of natural charisma, she had a good partnership with Derek (I thought that came across as genuine) and Derek is a master at packaging the hell out of anyone. So she had appeal for the general audience and Derek's fanbase and that only increased throughout the season. TPTB helped by having the judges constantly gush over her and only giving her flattering packages. But I can well believe that this was also motivated by the fact that she was getting a lot of votes from the start.

As for why that didn't translate into anything else? Well, it usually doesn't. The viewers are interested in the DWTS contestants as characters in the context of the show, that doesn't mean they're interested in them beyond that. Oh, and to be (a bit) fair to DWTS, they've been mostly nice to the very young contestants, it's not only Bindi. They're usually not hardcore playing mindgames with them or giving them bad edits or anything.

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Alapaki

Alapaki

Here are the Judges' scores from last week (the ones last night's eliminations were based on) converted to "percentage of total points awarded:

Ginger:   17.20%

Nyle:        16.91%

Paige:     16.62%

Antonio:  16.33%

Wanya:    15.74%

So, while the Judges did place Antonio and Wanya in the bottom, let's be realistic.  Wanya was only 0.88% behind Paige and only 1.46% behind the 1st place Ginger.  Antonio was obviously even closer to both.

This is why I say the Judges can't really make the ultimate elimination decision (except for the finals, where they totally can).  If they were projecting what the viewer votes would be and knew that these percentages would make the difference, they were leaving themselves very little margin for error.  I can't believe they knew these numerical scores would make the difference.

Now, the effect that the Judges' and show's narrative about the contestants may certainly influence the viewer votes.  But that could go either way.  There's no judge on this panel who can manipulate votes with their critique the way Simon Cowell could back when he still had his fastball on American Idol.

From what I understand, GMA has been shameless in their promotion of Ginger.  If that's true, I'd say that has more to do with Ginger's placement in the finals than anything else.

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howmanywords

howmanywords

1 hour ago, boyznkatz said:

The thing is, viewers didn't seem to care much for her, just like they don't seem too fond of Ginger and Melissa R. and most of the other people they pimped. I do think they wanted to give Bindi a show or do something with her, but something fell through. If she wanted to live quietly in Australia, then why come here? It's funny how all the people who become finalists on dwts talk about all these "offers" they are pouring through, yet none of them amount to much. I always thought J.R. Martinez would have been a star after winning his season, but he faded away as well.

The only recent examples I can think of where winners actually got something out of the show was Rumer and Alfonso.  Rumer at least got a Broadway gig out of the deal and Alfonso is not only hosting a show on the Cooking Channel but of course is now part of the ABC family since he took over for Tom on AFV

NextIteration

NextIteration

I'm disappointed that Wanya's out, I was rooting for Z-pac too.  Now I want Paige to win, don't care a bit that she's a "ringer".  I was very pleased that they gave us the story on the bullying that she experienced, I think the more we talk about these things and acknowledge them, the better.

I am not looking forward to the wretched excess Peta will pull out next week for Nyle, and Ginger?  She's just there.

  • Love 2
PBGamer89

PBGamer89

I don't think Bindi's win was orchestrated or fixed in any way or made to happen because of a need for ABC to make her a star.

They knew she'd be a big name but when she came out week 1 with that skill and exuberance, I'm sure her votes were larger than they imagined so they followed the story where the votes were. I think TPTB fully intended on a Nick win from the casting until the premiere, but Bindi kind of came out of nowhere with her skill and ability to entertain.

There were many times that her scores could've been in striking distance to get eliminated or even on the finale when her and Nick were tied for the top but it was the votes that got her to win. It wasn't some plan where she was 8 points ahead of Nick or whatever, she got the win by fans enjoying her dancing.

Ginger, on the other hand... doesn't have the skill or a sliver of joy that Bindi had. Ginger has gotten scores many times to keep her towards the top. That's way more manipulation than Bindi ever had. ABC had nothing to gain by her winning, they just pimped where the votes were I think, where as Ginger is an ABC employee that gets promo from a big 3 hour morning show on the same network.

  • Love 5
Vinyasa

Vinyasa

Quote

Ginger, on the other hand... doesn't have the skill or a sliver of joy that Bindi had. Ginger has gotten scores many times to keep her towards the top. That's way more manipulation than Bindi ever had. ABC had nothing to gain by her winning, they just pimped where the votes were I think, where as Ginger is an ABC employee that gets promo from a big 3 hour morning show on the same network.

Ginger should have left about week 5 but I'm now sadly predicting she will win. I'm ready for this to end.

GMA is only 2 hours but it feels like 3 hours since DWTS started!

  • Love 2
ocelot

ocelot

1 hour ago, TiredMe said:

I am disappointed Wanya is out. 

Rooting for Paige but I think she's got a snowballs chance in hell of winning. I find her to be a doll. 

That jive from Nyle was the worst dance since Mishas last dance. Just a total disaster. But 9s? I guess why not? 

I feel like with the system they have set up where it's half judges scores and half public vote, they almost kind of can't give low scores before the finale even if their dance was bad because it just guarantees they won't win. Imo it's not practical, I don't think judges scores should factor into it (at least not for the finale?)

  • Love 1
Hiacios

Hiacios

13 minutes ago, ocelot said:

I feel like with the system they have set up where it's half judges scores and half public vote, they almost kind of can't give low scores before the finale even if their dance was bad because it just guarantees they won't win. Imo it's not practical, I don't think judges scores should factor into it (at least not for the finale?)

That's a good point.

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