S02.E17: Rise By Sin

[Tara Ariano]

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Hakeem feels under pressure as he struggles to find a place for his fiancé, Laura, in both his family and his career; Cookie finally lets Jamal in on the truth about what happened to Freda's father, prompting him to warn Freda about his family's ulterior motives; and a sacrifice is made on behalf of Lucious.

[Mreid]

OMG!!!!!

[Neurochick]

I'm confused.  This seemed like a season finale to me.  What will they do next week?

[SimoneS]

Great episode! Freda shot Jamal. Damn, she is the worse shot! How did she miss that devil Lucious when he was standing right there. I cannot believe that Lucious was going on about "take care of my boy." Someone has got stab Lucious in his ugly heart. I knew he was an ugly bigot, but the comment about Jamal dying from AIDS crossed all lines. I was glad that Jamal threw Lucious' crying over his mother in his face. 

Cookie looked beautiful in gold and I loved all her other outfits tonight. Cookie stay away from that evil man! I hate that Lucious and Cookie have so much damn chemistry.  Cookie grabbing Carol's weave was hysterical. Too bad drunk Carol spilt the secret to Freda. I know that Cookie was angry at Lucious, but he killed Gathers to protect her. His mistake was signing up Freda with Empire and keeping her close.

Jamal and Cookie were so good together. I am glad that she told him the truth about Frank Gathers and he tried to get Freda away from Empire. Jamal needs to stay away from that closeted producer who is obviously up to no good. 

I cannot believe that Lucious had Andre and his mama locked in that panic room. Hilarious. Is his mama going to spill the beans?

Why the comments about Lucious' weight in the last few episodes? 

Edited May 12, 2016 by SimoneS

[CofCinci]

Why did Fantasia Barrino shoot Jamal?

[Mreid]

1 minute ago, CofCinci said:

Why did Fantasia Barrino shoot Jamal?

OMG no you didnt lololol

[LaChavalina]

She didn't miss Lucious, so much as Jamal stepped in front of him and caught the bullet.

I kind of suspected that the outcome of the ASA award would be what it was, but did they seriously go on with an award show after someone was shot on the red carpet? LOL. The way it went down was really well-played, though if I were Andre I would have thrown Thirsty under the bus for keeping him in the panic room. 

And the AIDS comment made me gasp out loud. So ugly.

[sarkygal]

That felt more like the Season 1 Empire. Fast paced, gut wrenching emotional beats and no major guest star distractions.

Jamal is a bit of a whiny punk though. I hate that he took a bullet for Lucious after those nasty words. If Lee Daniels is still working through his issues with his dad through Jamal's character, my  heart breaks for him.

Thirsty really needs to stop messing with Andre every episode. He seems to have forgotten what happened to Vernon.

The shallow: Andre in black tie, swoon. Freda looked amazing in that white suit. TPH isn't looking so hot lately. I want Leslie Uggams' skincare regimen.

Edited May 12, 2016 by sarkygal

[Neurochick]

That AIDS comment was the ugliest thing I have heard on this show.  My mouth dropped when Lucious said it.  I mean that was beyond low, it was hateful.

[announcergirl]

This was a solid episode. 

1. Hated the netting and the ugly, cheap blue stoles Cookie wore to the awards. Reminded me of Whoopie Goldberg's character in Ghost. Her other outfits, particularly the fur with the black knee-high boots were sassy.

2. I liked the exchange between Cookie and Lucious about nobody wanting Lucious' fat ass and Lucious missing her booty. Of course, according to him, he is fat in the right places. Side note: All men think they are. Poor things.

Moving on...great chemistry between these two! Unlike some, I want the two of them to have a HEA.

3. Can't stand homo-thug. Just cause you almost get caught, you don't have to be so vicious! Again, and again. Work on a new cover okay.

4. Albeit cruel, I can see where Lucious was coming from in his speech and that it pained him to say the things he was saying to Jamal. Finally some good tears. Jamal just won't listen.

5. The acting tonight was strong. A lot of emotions conveyed. By all. 

6. Whew, that Carol and Grandma. What the hell!!!! Carol been in the game long enough to not snitch when she's drunk. When Cookie finds out! What took the guards so long to get her out of there anyway?

7. If I'm not mistaken, didn't Cookie go to Lucious to protect the family from Gathers? She's responsible, too, if we follow her train of thought.

8. Poor lil tink tink. Hakeem's fiancé just doesn't have the "it" factor and, so sad so sorry, she's not going to be around much longer. Yippee!

9. Glad Rhonda is realizing it was Anika, but she done shown the cards in her hand. Anika knows she knows. IMO it was Anika who pushed her down the stairs.

10. FBI guy is not my type, but as some have mentioned, he has a little something something going on. I see the appeal.

[tennisgurl]

Damn Lucious. That AIDS comment was cold as ice. That was low, even for him. All that being said, his mom gives me the creeps. She should not be talking to anyone. Do not trust her at all. 

No Jamal! Damn but Freida is an awful shot. He was right freaking there girl! Poor Jamal. I think he will be ok, but who knows with this show.

This has been a really good season, I am amazed it is almost over for the season!

[buttersister]

FBI guy trying to be poor man's Luther? Feh. Credit to Rhonda for not flipping out when Andre finally showed up!

[wanderingstar]

Damn, I wish Freda had shot Lucious. He was so vile tonight.

Jamal - assuming he survives - needs to get D Major to the curb.

I felt bad for Carol. She was so excited about going out with Tariq, but Cookie meddled and that was that. Cookie really played that badly. As much stuff as Carol knows about the Lyons' dirty dealings, Cookie needs to keep her close.

Locking Andre in what looked like a panic room was so OTT, but very Lucious. In lieu of a who-shot-Lucious story, I'll settle for Jamal, Andre and Hakeem taking turns beating the crap out of Lucious.

Freda looked great at the ASAs. I hope this isn't the end of her character. I love her friendship with Jamal.

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No Jamal! Damn but Freida is an awful shot. He was right freaking there girl! 

I think if she'd been thinking more clearly, she would have had better aim.

[Actionmage]

Poor Freda; Lucious pushed all the right buttons and got her to trust him, despite everyone- including her dad and Jamal- telling her to keep away from him. She had found a great friend and collaborator in Jamal. She respected Cookie's ear and savvy.  She was keeping her roots in the neighborhood because she hadn't made it big, but she was justthisclose! I hope Jamal pulls through and helps her.

Rhonda needs some help. Her husband is kidnapped- along with his bipolar grandma, she's getting flashbacks to That Horrible Night and thinks it might be a newish friend, plus her new Empire clothing venture in addition to her original business and that floating manslaughter thing in the air. (Just because Thirsty helped? I can't trust him to never use that against them. He's Lucious' minion and then out for himself.)

Man, Carol just better disappear. Between the Feds and Cookie or Lucious and the Gathers organization, she just bought a world of hurt. I would hope that Candace would have pity, but I'm not sure.

Yeah, I'm with the other posters, wrt kicking that full of bs producer to the curb. Cookie is a fine producer, as per the show's world, so part of that could just be jealousy. "Mama's boy" isn't appreciated either, especially coming from a supposed adult who's been in the business a while. He cannot be that great, Jamal. Good-looking? Yeah, but Ryan was hot as well. There has to be a good man for Jamal who DGAF about Lucious, appreciates  Cookie, Andre and Hakeem and Becky and Rhonda and Freda. Then, Jamal needs to have less relationship stress for a season. He can be stressed about other things.

Blow Lu up, Leah!  He lies so much that he couldn't stop if he wanted. When Andre said that Leah showing up would hurt Lucious' career, I was disappointed in Andre. Lucious is a supervillain. Telling the world his mom was dead for thirty years versus the truth? So Lucious, already a rich dude, would be hurting career-wise if the truth was told? Lucious can deal. Yes, Leah really should be in an place with appropriate care and professionals, not housekeepers who should not be expected to do the job of an RN. ( I'm just glad Juanita was with us another week.) 

Still processing stuff like Hakeem and Laura and the wonderfulness of the ASA going to someone else entirely.

[Dee]

Still loving Jamal and Derek together. His refutation of Jamal was harsh but Jamal knew the score from the beginning, so it's not like Derek was acting out of character. They also remain majorly en fuego together.

This episode was filled with beautifully acted, if rather intense, scenes between most of the main cast: Carol and Cookie, Hakeem and Laura, Jamal and Lucious, Rhonda and Anika, Andre & Leah. Just a ton of interesting dynamics and quality character based interactions.

Loved Andre sticking with Nana Leah. He finally found somebody in his family who he feels less alone with, and he's doing everything in his power to keep her happy.

Also? More lingering shots of Trai Byers in tight pants is always welcome.

Loved Nana Leah in general. Leslie Uggams is an undisputed legend and has pretty much been a scene stealer from the word go.

Carol and Cookie FINALLY having it out was awesome. It's sad that the closest two Holloway sisters are at odds, since neither one of them is particularly close to snotty Candace, but their confrontation was long overdue.

Also? Drunk Carol is fantastic.

Glad Hakeem is finally seeing Laura as underwhelming. She's cute as a button but light years away from his speed. Shrewd Tiana has always been a better match for him.

Poor Jamal is currently the only Lyon that sees just how far his family is careening into madness, unfortunately he remains a day late & a dollar short at keeping them from embracing the darkness.

I felt for Anika. She's desperately trying to regain her footing in a den of Lyon's who refuse to fight fair. I said last season that she was gonna regret manually ejecting herself from the family, and she has. Hopefully she receives a measure of redemption in the finale because Gealey's too good an actress to lose.

That said, I love Kaitlin Doubleday's dry approach to Rhonda. Even when Rhonda strongly suspects Anika of betraying her in such a foul manner, Doubleday underplays Rhonda's barely concealed venom almost to comic effect.

I really felt for Freda. She's another character who, although far from innocent, was made an unwitting pawn in a war she didn't start. Hopefully she, like Boo Boo Kitty, receives a measure of redemption in the finale because, both Bre-Z and Freda, have come a long way from the immature little girl who stomped out of Empire at the beginning of the season.

Taraji P. Henson exhibited exactly why she's a Golden Globe winning, Oscar and Emmy nominated actress. The range of emotions she ran through in this episode was amazing.

Terrence Howard acquitted himself really well this episode too. Lucious is a real son of a bitch, but Howard manages to keep the character just on the right side of empathetic to remain viable. That said, Lucious 'The day you die from AIDS I'm gonna celebrate' jab at Jamal was perilously close to crossing said line.

Overall though, the back half of this season has been utterly fantastic, which says a lot considering the first half wasn't too shabby.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Dee

[SimoneS]

It was a great twist that someone else won the ASA. Talk about popping the air out of the balloon. Hakeem was right, all that drama and neither Lucious or Jamal won.

My advice to Laura is that she go make her own career and stop expecting to benefit from Hakeem's. It is only so long before he tires of her whining, especially with Tainna looking sexy as hell right over there.

[Artsda]

That was a great episode, if felt original Empire. 

Loved all the Lucious and Cookie scenes. They look great on the red carpet together.

Why would any of the family tell crack head Carol their secrets? The crazy mother needs to go too, hope someone grabs her before she speaks to the press.

Jamal shouldn't be going back in the closet, hiding and lying with the Producer. Jamal is better that that, the way the Producer acted and put on that show for Lucious who knew it was all a crock was horrible. Lucious also said everyone knows the Producer is gay, so if he still can't come out of the closet and walking red carpet with beards Jamal shouldn't be dropping his family for that. He doesn't need him.

Hakeem doesn't seem into getting married. 

[RCharter]

Cookie looked phenomenal tonight.....I don't know if they brought back the old stylist, but every outfit was on point.

So is Anika going to turn because she knows that Rhonda knows, or is there something else

Well....way to FUBAR everything Carol!

I don't think Jamal is going to die

Rut roh....who was supposed to be watching crazy granny!?!??

2 hours ago, announcergirl said:

 

8. Poor lil tink tink. Hakeem's fiancé just doesn't have the "it" factor and, so sad so sorry, she's not going to be around much longer. Yippee!

Why couldn't she step in front of the bullet?  Two birds...one stone....

[Queena]

Anika went to the police why? I really hate when Cookie gets amnesia. Sorry, but Grandma needed to be locked in the panic room, and so did Andre for even attempting to sneak her to the award show. I realize that no one knows just how mentally ill she is, but in this case, I would take Lucious' word. I was happy to see him alive.... I didn't know if he survived the cake incident from last week. I'm sorry Freda, if your Dad was a gangsta, you live by the streets and you die by the streets. Not saying she shouldn't be hurt, but the way she acts just isn't the way that people act on the streets. No one would anyone attempt murder in public, on camera. What would that serve? Dumb ass, she better not snitch. She's about that life! 

Once again, why is Anika at the police station? I really can't stand her character. 

[SimoneS]

I woke up with a wild idea. What if Lucious marries Anika next week? It would be the perfect way to prevent her from testifying against him and it would alter the Lyon family dynamics.

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

I woke up with a wild idea. What if Lucious marries Anika next week? It would be the perfect way to prevent her from testifying against him and it would alter the Lyon family dynamics.

That's not so wild I thought of it too!

[Primetimer]

The Lyons hit the red carpet...red WITH BLOOD, that is!

View the full article

[wanderingstar]

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I woke up with a wild idea. What if Lucious marries Anika next week? It would be the perfect way to prevent her from testifying against him and it would alter the Lyon family dynamics.

And very soapy! I know they teased a Cookie/Lucious reunion for next week's finale, but I hope that does not happen. Cookie can do way better than Lucious.

 

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Yeah, but Ryan was hot as well. 

How I wish they'd bring Ryan back. I know Eka Darville is off in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, but can his character come back and rescue Jamal from these trifling men!

Edited May 12, 2016 by Gillian Rosh

[darkestboy]

Well, I didn't see that one coming. Freda shooting Jamal even though she was aiming for Lucious. Damn it. Does this rule out a future 'Who Killed Lucious?' or only partially set one up?

I'm going to assume that Jamal will not die but that this might be the very thing to force him out on his own. Lucious went beyond the pale with him in this episode and the closeted relationship with D Major isn't doing him much favours either.

Lucious and Cookie really were getting closer in this episode too. Leah is a problem and Andre doesn't see that but he might do next week.

Rhonda trying to catch Anika out was interesting as was the confrontation with Cookie and Carol this week. Carol was right about Tariq.

Hakeem and Laura are so not going to make it down the aisle next episode, 9/10

[luckyroll3]

10 hours ago, RCharter said:

Why couldn't she step in front of the bullet?  Two birds...one stone....

That would have been glorious!

So glad to see Juanita alive and kicking it.  I got a good chuckle out of her "Hmmph" when Nana said to her, "I thought I fired you?"  I also loved everyone referencing Lucious' weight.  Yeah, he broke his diet, alright.  Nana need to play Rhianna's "cake cake cake cake cake cake" everytime she walks into a room with Lucious.

1 hour ago, Gillian Rosh said:

How I wish they'd bring Ryan back. I know Eka Darville is off in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, but can his character come back and rescue Jamal from these trifling men!

Ryan was delicious and he was the best guy Jamal dated.

I wonder why FBI dude went after Anika, when he could try to make a deal with Freda for a more lenient sentence? 

[IntrovertGal]

If Jamal is really dead, then I'm done with this show. He is my favourite character, plus Jussie is the only one who can really sing. Also, I'm sick and tired of the "bury your gays" trope, I've experienced it way too much on too many shows lately.

And wow, I didn't think I could hate Lucious any more than I already do but after that AIDS line, I found that I could. If Jamal survives, I really want him to cut all ties with Lucious and with Empire. Any record label would be lucky to have him.

I agree with you luckyroll3 about Ryan, he definitely was the best guy Jamal ever dated. I enjoyed Jamal and Derek's chemistry last week but after the way Derek treated Jamal in this episode, I think Jamal should cut all ties with him as well.

[Neurochick]

1 hour ago, IntrovertGal said:

And wow, I didn't think I could hate Lucious any more than I already do but after that AIDS line, I found that I could. If Jamal survives, I really want him to cut all ties with Lucious and with Empire. Any record label would be lucky to have him.

I agree with this.  In real life this might happen.  But if Jamal cuts all ties with his family, then there would be no show.  

[SimoneS]

I was liking Jamal's new guy until he tried to steal him away from Cookie. I could deal with the closet drama, but not him trying to cause a rift between Jamal and Cookie. I wish that Ryan was still around, but the actor has moved on to bigger and better things.

[Empress1]

That was an EXCELLENT episode. 

The endless leeway Cookie gives Lucious is starting to bug me. She says she knows deep down that he knows he wants to do right by his family, but everybody has seen a LOT of evidence to the contrary, including her, and when is enough enough? He treats his kids like trash unless he wants something from them and he seemingly always has. And Cookie has seen instance after instance of this, and she's still willing to give him the benefit of the doubt? For what? A diamond bracelet?

I am ready for Hakeem to cheat on Laura already so we can move on. She annoys me.

The contrast of Freda being so sweet ("you OK, Miss Carol, you want me to call you an Uber?") and then pulling a gun and firing, was effective. As was the wide-eyed "What have I done?" look she had when she saw Jamal on the ground. 

@LaChavalina, I wondered the same thing! Would an awards show go on if someone got shot outside it right beforehand? Wouldn't the powers that be shut that down?

I liked Cookie's dress but that minty fresh stole was not the business, IMO.

I kind of can't wait for Rhonda to cold cock Anika. I get the sense that this isn't Rhonda's first fight. If you cut off a girl's ponytail because she looks at your boyfriend in a way you don't like, you've probably thrown a punch or two. And I don't know what Leslie Uggams is going to do, but I am HERE FOR IT. She's a legend. 

[Dee]

1 hour ago, Empress1 said:

I kind of can't wait for Rhonda to cold cock Anika. I get the sense that this isn't Rhonda's first fight. If you cut off a girl's ponytail because she looks at your boyfriend in a way you don't like, you've probably thrown a punch or two.

It always tickles me that Rhonda acts so thoroughly aghast at her family's shenanigans when she's clearly as insane as they are.

[wanderingstar]

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I am ready for Hakeem to cheat on Laura already so we can move on. She annoys me.

In true soap fashion, I'm guessing he'll cheat on her with Tiana the night before the wedding.

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The contrast of Freda being so sweet ("you OK, Miss Carol, you want me to call you an Uber?") and then pulling a gun and firing, was effective. As was the wide-eyed "What have I done?" look she had when she saw Jamal on the ground. 

BreZ is great. I'll miss her if she goes.

[MaryTylerMoore]

21 hours ago, buttersister said:

Credit to Rhonda for not flipping out when Andre finally showed up!

In this family!?? People disappear all the time. Shit, Rhonda killed someone her damn self.  If somebody said "I was kidnapped by hip hop loving aliens" it would be completely plausible.

Do you guys follow Jussie Smollet on Twitter? 

The person doing TPH's eyebrows should be fired and shunned.

Great episode.

[Empress1]

16 minutes ago, MaryTylerMoore said:

The person doing TPH's eyebrows should be fired and shunned.

I think Botox has something to do with that. Her brows are creeping up toward her hairline. She can still move her face though (that ILL side-eye she threw at the end of the episode was incredible, just a straight-up look of evil) so she hasn't overdone it, but I think she's dabbling.

[LaChavalina]

2 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

BreZ is great. I'll miss her if she goes.

I think she's great as an actress, and it's so refreshing to see a female character on this or any network show who isn't there to be someone's love interest. Freda is certainly tied to her father's legacy, but she's become a character in her own right.  

[Jade Foxx]

9 hours ago, Empress1 said:

That was an EXCELLENT episode. 

The endless leeway Cookie gives Lucious is starting to bug me. She says she knows deep down that he knows he wants to do right by his family, but everybody has seen a LOT of evidence to the contrary, including her, and when is enough enough? He treats his kids like trash unless he wants something from them and he seemingly always has. And Cookie has seen instance after instance of this, and she's still willing to give him the benefit of the doubt? For what? A diamond bracelet?

I am ready for Hakeem to cheat on Laura already so we can move on. She annoys me.

The contrast of Freda being so sweet ("you OK, Miss Carol, you want me to call you an Uber?") and then pulling a gun and firing, was effective. As was the wide-eyed "What have I done?" look she had when she saw Jamal on the ground. 

@LaChavalina, I wondered the same thing! Would an awards show go on if someone got shot outside it right beforehand? Wouldn't the powers that be shut that down?

I liked Cookie's dress but that minty fresh stole was not the business, IMO.

I kind of can't wait for Rhonda to cold cock Anika. I get the sense that this isn't Rhonda's first fight. If you cut off a girl's ponytail because she looks at your boyfriend in a way you don't like, you've probably thrown a punch or two. And I don't know what Leslie Uggams is going to do, but I am HERE FOR IT. She's a legend. 

SO. MUCH. DRAMA!!

That was almost like Biggie's shooting out here in LA at the Peterson Museum venue. My heart was racing during that entire scene...bravo, Empire...and I loved Freda's montage of the pieces coming together re her pops and Luscious  

And of course the ASA's would go on -- how soon we forget that Whitney Houston's dead body hadn't even been removed from the hotel room, while Clive Davis and other industry folk still had that party and didn't skip a beat. 

FBI dude is giving me vibes of a Dollar Store version of Denzel from Training Day. He could NEVER channel Idris/Luther in looks or acting ability everrrrr!!!

[RCharter]

31 minutes ago, Jade Foxx said:

 

FBI dude is giving me vibes of a Dollar Store version of Denzel from Training Day. He could NEVER channel Idris/Luther in looks or acting ability everrrrr!!!

LMFAO....dead at this.....so true!

[MyAimIsTrue]

14 hours ago, Empress1 said:

The contrast of Freda being so sweet ("you OK, Miss Carol, you want me to call you an Uber?") and then pulling a gun and firing, was effective. As was the wide-eyed "What have I done?" look she had when she saw Jamal on the ground. 

Yes and yes.  I really hope we don't lose the character of Freda after this because I find her fascinating and multi-layered.

[Empress1]

4 hours ago, Jade Foxx said:

And of course the ASA's would go on -- how soon we forget that Whitney Houston's dead body hadn't even been removed from the hotel room, while Clive Davis and other industry folk still had that party and didn't skip a beat. 

I actually did forget that, but still, I think that's a little different than a shooting taking place ON the red carpet minutes (I assume, but maybe not) before the event. I'd think that would at least slow things down a little. But [shrug]. At least the ASAs are over. I was sick of hearing about them.

[RoxieBear73]

As they say, the show must go on even though there is a shooting on the Red Carpet.  I still can't believe that Jameel was shoot. 

[IntrovertGal]

On ‎12‎.‎05‎.‎2016 at 9:21 PM, Neurochick said:

I agree with this.  In real life this might happen.  But if Jamal cuts all ties with his family, then there would be no show.  

I didn't mean that Jamal should cut all ties with his family, just with Lucious. I want him to remain close with Cookie and his brothers. And yeah, it might be difficult if Jamal was on another label, but if Cookie and his brothers respect Jamal's decision, they could still make it work. I realise that this will probably not happen on the show but I wish it would because I can hardly look at Lucious after that AIDS line and I wish Jamal would not forgive his father. If Jamal survives that is.

[J.D.]

Yes, the AIDS comment was low-down dirty, even for Lucious, but I love that Lee Daniels isn't afraid to push those boundaries (and buttons).  A lot of homophobic idiots think just like that, so it needed to be said -- and who better to say it than Lucious?

This episode was reminiscent of Season One.  Clearly, their best episode this whole season.  

[thuganomics85]

Leave it to Carol of all people, to be the person that helps cause all the shit to finally go down!

I've been enjoying this season enough even though it hasn't been as good as the first one, but this episode definitely was the best yet, and probably in the same caliber as last season.  A lot of laugh out-loud lines, great acting, nice character interactions, and so much hilarious and soapy twists!  What more could I ask for?!

Well, I guess I could ask for Jamal not to die, but I really doubt he will.  I feel like Jamal is one of those character who would only ever leave the show for good if Jussie Smollet wanted out for whatever reason.  I have to think they know he is a decently popular character, and it would probably be bad to lose him, I think.  Then again, this is FOX, so.....  Nah, I think he'll be fine.  But I suspect this will have major repercussions down the line. I especially feel bad over how this will likely torpedo Jamal and Freda's friendship.  I really enjoyed the pairing and how they seemed to be bringing the best out of each other, but even if Jamal somehow had it in his heart to forgive her, I can't see how she isn't going to be getting locked-up for a good while.  I usually not a huge fan of the flashback method, but I actually enjoyed how once she found out the truth, they cut back to all those scenes in the past, and you can see just how much Lucious manipulated and used her.  He truly was and will always be the worst. 

Speak of the Devil, I say this every damn time, but just when I think he's already hit an all time low, he comes in with a lovely line about how he will celebrate when Jamal dies of AIDS.  It must be nice not to have a soul, Lucious.  Don't have to deal with pesky things like human decency and actually loving your family.  Sociopathic asshole.

Hakeem and Laura are so doomed...

That Rhonda and Anika scene was hilarious.  I still don't know if Anika actually did it, but Rhonda thinking she did is great!

Leah is continuing to become one of my favorite new characters.  Leslie Uggams is so compelling and just the right amount of scary.  I really hope the character will continue to hang around into next season.

So, this is FBI guy is wanting to use Anika to take down the Lyons?  Hmm...

Oh, and big ass ASA award going to neither Jamal and Lucious, actually worked for me.  After all that fighting, pettinesses, and, in Lucious' case, probably unfixable damage that was caused because of it, neither one of them wins.  Kind of fitting.

[jhlipton]

On 5/12/2016 at 7:06 PM, LaChavalina said:

 

 

On 5/12/2016 at 7:34 PM, announcergirl said:

What took the guards so long to get her out of there anyway?

Same reason they didn't have snaps on their holsters -- PLOT!!!

On 5/12/2016 at 8:12 PM, Gillian Rosh said:

Freda looked great at the ASAs. I hope this isn't the end of her character. I love her friendship with Jamal.

 

On 5/12/2016 at 8:47 PM, Dee said:

Both Bre-Z and Freda, have come a long way from the immature little girl who stomped out of Empire at the beginning of the season.

When she was first introduced I was hoping she was a one-and-done, short-termed character, but putting her with Jamal (so their would be no romance plot-line) was genius, and really allowed Bre-Z to show her chops, both singing and acting.

 

Edited May 15, 2016 by jhlipton
remove bolding

[represent]

On 5/12/2016 at 10:05 PM, CofCinci said:

Why did Fantasia Barrino shoot Jamal?

LOL!  This is for the win.

 

Anyway, my lord was that shit evil, to wish your own flesh and blood, your child, death by AIDS. Wow, Daniels went there, but like someone posted above, the ignorant really think that way.  LGBT = AIDS to the homophobic, ignorant of our society.

I imagine, now seeing Luscious and his mother interact in real time, that there must be an underlining jealousy when Luscious watches how Cookie interacts with her sons. All the men in Cookie's life are jealous, Luscious and Hakeem are the worse IMO when it comes to Cookie and I think they are both jealous of her closeness with Jamal.  Andre seems to be more jealous of the "respect" his brothers get from Luscious, not Cookie. But it must burn Luscious that the so called "damaged" Jamal in his mind, the one he threw in the garbage, Cookie loves with all her heart. He seems to be her favorite. Meanwhile Luscious thinks he's perfectly "normal" and his mother has always wanted to kill not only herself, but him apparently.

If Jamal really wanted hurt Luscious, that would be all he had to say, "Well at least I have a mother who loves me, yours is still trying to kill you." 

Note: I'd really like to know what kind of household Cookie grew up in. I also find it a little interesting that mom or maybe it was someone else in the family, looked at her an named her Loretha, deciding to skip a name that began with a "C" like Candice and Carol.  So it went Candice cause she's the eldest, Loretha, cause she's in the middle, and back to Carol again, the baby. What gives?

I love it when she says don't call me by my "gov'ment" name, hilarious.

Edited May 15, 2016 by represent

[DrivingSideways]

5 hours ago, represent said:

Note: I'd really like to know what kind of household Cookie grew up in. I also find it a little interesting that mom or maybe it was someone else in the family, looked at her an named her Loretha, deciding to skip a name that began with a "C" like Candice and Carol.  So it went Candice cause she's the eldest, Loretha, cause she's in the middle, and back to Carol again, the baby. What gives?

I love it when she says don't call me by my "gov'ment" name, hilarious.

OK, I'm glad I'm not the only one fascinated by Cookie's family names.  Not only did the mother miss a prime C naming opportunity amongst all three daughters, I always found it interesting that there is Candy and Cookie, two dessert names, and then... Carol.  They could have given her the name Cupcake to keep it consistent amongst the daughters.

[luckyroll3]

On ‎5‎/‎15‎/‎2016 at 1:47 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Oh, and big ass ASA award going to neither Jamal and Lucious, actually worked for me.  After all that fighting, pettinesses, and, in Lucious' case, probably unfixable damage that was caused because of it, neither one of them wins.  Kind of fitting.

Speaking of the ASA's, didn't Jamal have something like 9 nominations?  Did he lose the other 8 as well?

Edited May 17, 2016 by luckyroll3

[DollEyes]

One of the best episodes of the season. Just when it seems like Lucius couldn't possibly sink any lower when it comes to his family in general and his sons in particular, he does, with a vengeance. Lucius' calling Andre "am embarrassment" for being bipolar was bad enough, but actually wishing that Jamal would die of AIDS because he's gay is inexcusable. Instead of attacking Jamal, Lucius should have put that pathetic closet case Derek on blast for using Jamal. Derek was probably glad that it was Lucius who caught him with Jamal because if it had been Cookie, then chances are he would have been crying, bleeding, limping or all of the above-if he survived, that is. If Cookie had caught Derek dissing Jamal, she might have outed his downlow ass without thinking twice-or beat it, whichever came first.

 

  The question is, how many times does Jamal have to keep proving himself to Lucius? When it comes to Lucius, it seems like nothing Jamal does is ever good enough, no pun intended. Jamal came out at Lucius' behest, it wasn't good enough. Jamal took Lucius' side to protect Empire at Cookie & his brothers' expense, it wasn't good enough. Jamal put out great music, it wasn't good enough. The only things that Jamal did that's ever impressed Lucius were his flings with Olivia & Skye, as if manhood and straightness were mutually exclusive. News flash, Lucius: fucking women doesn't make a man more of a man than not fucking them makes him less of one, as your treatment of Cookie alone proves. I never thought I'd say this, but the best relationship in Jamal's life right now is with Freda because she's honest with Jamal like no one else is in his life, especially his parents. By the same token, Jamal wants to help Freda for the right reasons, unlike Lucius, who did it to relieve whatever passes for his guilty conscience where her daddy's concerned or Cookie, who feels guilty for ratting Gathers out to the Feds, aka "doing the right thing."

 

Still loving Jamal and Derek together. His refutation of Jamal was harsh, but Jamal knew the score from the beginning, so it's not like Derek was acting out of character. They also remain majorly en fuego together.

Yes the AIDS comment was low-down dirty even for Lucius, but I love that Lee Daniels isn't afraid to push those boundaries (or buttons). A lot of homophobic idiots think just like that, so it needed to be said--and who better to say it than Lucius?

I respectfully and totally disagree. Just because Jamal knows that Derek is on the downlow, that didn't give Derek the right to disrespect him, especially in front of Lucius, who already knows the truth about him anyway. Jamal deserves a real, out & proud man who loves him, respects Cookie/his brothers and who doesn't give a shit about Lucius, not a closeted thug who treats him like a dirty little secret. As for Lucius, I've known that he's a homophobic asshole ever since he threw little Jamal in a trashcan just for playing dress-up, so I neither want nor need to see Lucius pandering to bigots nor do I think that Lee Daniels is "brave" for doing so. To quote the old saying, "Just because you can, that doesn't mean you should."

 

Edited May 22, 2016 by DollEyes
To add stuff.