S02.E21: The Runaway Dinosaur

[ElectricBoogaloo]

My favorite thing in this episode was Harrison shaking his head and making faces while Cisco tried to explain the Girder situation to Barry. I also loved the way Cisco and Harrison were working together and in sync, answering in unison ("Plan H!") and finishing each other's sentences. They're a better team than Cisco and Caitlin were.

Totally loved that we got the metallic version of Drake Holloway the zombie.

6 hours ago, ChelseaNH said:

All that time I wasted learning CPR when I could just yell at people to restart their hearts.

SERIOUSLY! I was totally cracking up that my CPR class wasted time teaching us to ask, "Annie, Annie, are you okay?" and doing actual CPR when yelling, "JESSIE! WAKE UP!" was apparently enough.

14 minutes ago, FurryFury said:

Wow that was bad. Speed Force is sentient? What a dumb idea.

What's next? Gravity takes on a human form to give Barry a pep talk?

[ottoDbusdriver]

3 hours ago, Xenith22 said:

That's a pretty loaded question...  Freaking DC writers never seem to be able to make up their minds.  Basically the speedforce is another plane of existence, and it is sorta sentient in that it does choose who gains access.  It also usually has a subconscious pull that tries to make people in it not want to leave.  (Which seemed pretty absent.  I mean Iris was seemingly used just as a physical connection to pull him back, instead of being an emotional connection that kept him from losing himself and willingly becoming part of the speedforce?  Not to mention it seemingly even telling him he can leave at anytime...)

I thought it was odd that the speedforce entity kept asking Barry to sit down --  it happened 3 or 4 times.  

Who knows, maybe the speedforce entity/plane of existence is evil in the Earth-2 universe ?

 

As soon as I saw the blur in the speedforce plane of existence, you pretty much knew it would be Barry having to catch himself.  But even then, he just had to reach out and touch himself.

 

Tried to pick out some of the metahumans from the final scene at CCPD -- pink-haired woman in a white outfit, a green-flamed version of Firestorm hovering towards the rear, someone with glowing red eyes in a golden hood, a dude in a what looked like a black stormtrooper helmet carrying a rifle, a blonde-haired dude with Cyclops-like red eyes, a woman with white eyebrows and a lopsided white beret, a woman dressed in black with a cowl covering her eyes, a purple-haired woman, a dude with a flaming spear, bald man in an armored suit, large-chested woman with a tiny hat, masked woman in a studded leather jacket, a blonde woman in a black revealing outfit showing signs of the blue speedforce, and dude in a 50s-style business suit and hat just to name a few.

Edited May 11, 2016 by ottoDbusdriver

[pookat]

27 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

SERIOUSLY! I was totally cracking up that my CPR class wasted time teaching us to ask, "Annie, Annie, are you okay?"

You just gave me a Michael Jackson flashback!

 

So, are we to surmise that the Speedforce CHOSE Barry? It wasn't only the lightning, chemicals and particle accelerator? If so, why did it choose evil Hunter Zolomon to become Zoom, or for that matter the vengeful Eobard Thawne? I definitely got vibes that the Speedforce was a living entity, a la The Force, midichlorians and all.

[pookat]

https://mobile.twitter.com/GBerlanti/status/730265853833285632?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Still speculation, not a spoiler, but yeah, Henry is toast. Apparently three dads is one too many and Barry needs tragedy and angst to power him, regardless of what the Speedforce told him.

[Chicago Redshirt]

Because you demanded it: Barry gets a pep talk from the Speed Force itself! Or does that count as four pep talks since it came to him in 4 incarnations?

I would have loved it if it talked to him in the forms of Thawne-Wells, E2 Wells, Ollie and others.

I would have thought that hanging with the Speed Force ("you're soaking in it!") would have truly made him the Fastest Man Alive, and it still may. But his dealing with Zombie Girder didn't make it seem like the case. 

[Adira]

4 hours ago, Locutus said:

IDK if it's already been mentioned... but got Sisko/Phrophet flashbacks.

That's exactly what my husband and I said when we were watching this!  

[Primetimer]

In an episode that's one big emotional beat, Barry gets to know the source of his power.

View the full article

[Enero]

7 hours ago, AudienceofOne said:

Yawn

But I did love that Greg Finley got to be a zombie (again) and Cisco's hilarious meta 'iZombie' comment made me laugh out loud.

And Iris was actually useful (we had to get rid of a female character to do it, though - can't have more than one) but I'm still not seeing any great romantic feelings for Barry here. Your mileage varies. I'm well aware.

I tuned in again tonight after a long hiatus from the show because I'd heard things were taking off on the show and WestAllen was finally getting some traction. 

That said, I have to agree this episode was snooze worthy. It was great to see Iris front and center. CP is a great actress and has wonderful stage presence but the plot with Zombie Tony made no sense and was just there for filler. I guess since they couldn't think of anything interesting to explore outside of Barry's man pain they had to throw in the pointless zombie story. Speaking of Barry's man pain, GG is an awesome crier, but hasn't Barry been crying all season? The last time I watched he was crying. I tuned in last night and he was crying again. I've only watched 2-3 episodes this season and already I'm over it. 

Caitlin, I didn't even miss her and didn't even care.  I was baffled though by what DP was trying to convey in that last scene. Fear, anger, surprise?? She was just...there with her eyes stretched wide. Terrible acting. 

Lastly, I enjoy WestAllen, but I thought most of their scenes were lukewarm. The hug at STAR Labs was great. However, the connection in the speed force didn't convey the specialness that I thought it should've because Barry was on his way back any way. So I felt like anyone could've stepped into the force and helped him along. The cemetery scene completely fell flat. I think it was the dialogue and maybe due to the lack of a kiss?

I have no interest in what's coming next, the episode was that dull. Maybe I'll check in again if I hear good things about the finale, otherwise this show is still off my DVR.

[Cekrypton1]

This may have been the best Flash episode to date. I have to assume Iris was hit by the particle wave, as she is awesome now. And the evolution of the relationship between Harry and Cisco is great.
"Zombies? For Real?"--Cisco
"That ain't good, Cisco."--Joe

Superb job by all involved. Great work, Team Flash.

[maxineofarc]

I'm only a casual viewer and missed most of the first season, but shut up I'm not crying YOU'RE crying

[driedfruit]

8 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

 Also, they brutally undercut Iris and Barry's connection.  Iris just doesn't know it yet.  Iris thinks she's the one that convinced Barry to come home when we all know the reality was Barry was finally just ready and now COULD come home.  Does anyone think that he would have not reached for Cisco's hand this time around?  Or Wells or his dad or ANY familiar face??  Why does the show do this to them?  It should have been a super romantic event and it was filmed and framed as such and yet it was completely unearned and unsupported by the narrative.  Didn't help that while before Barry wasn't interested in Iris saying, hey fate wants us together I guess we should try, he's now I BELIEVE!!!  May the Speedforce be with you! 

And of course no kiss.

One line about maybe we should take things slow and they could have skipped the kiss but this was just poor writing.  I'm sure that they are purposely saving the kiss for a BIG MOMENT (probably the finale) but waiting does the characters no favors. 

I've made peace with the minimizing Iris' importance to Flash mythology and to Barry, because eww romance. I was pleased Iris got to do things instead of standing in the background until she came out to meet her romantic beats. That said, I didn't think the moment in the cemetery was unearned. Given their lifelong friendship and history it works.

[Gregg247]

All the regular characters on this show were too pooped out to give Barry yet another in an endless series of peop talks, so the Speed Force itself (!) took human form in order to prop him up.  Barry isn't a child; he's a grown man, with a college degree and, I assume, an advanced degree in some kind of science thing.  When's he going to grow a pair and act like an adult?

At this point, I think even anorexic teenage girls in the audience are starting to worry about Barry's severe lack of self-esteem.

[ruby24]

I guess they're saving the kiss for the finale, but the reason it felt weird that there wasn't one was because it sure seemed like they're declaring themselves a couple now. I mean, telling someone "you're everything to me" and having them react with joy doesn't seem like leaving the relationship ambiguous, so I think that's why people are confused that they didn't kiss there.

[phoenics]

I have a lot more to say but have to jett - but just one thought...

The Speed Force is magic.  Barry "No Chill" Allen went in, but Barry "Romantic Lead Face" Allen came out, lol.  

[Trini]

7 hours ago, mrspidey said:

Great. Now even the Speedforce needs to give Barry peptalks...

Did it really? I thought it was more of a therapy session, telling him to let go of his guilt; I don't think it's the same. Still weird that The Speed Force was talking to him, though.

As to whether this was filler; didn't they do the same thing last season -- have a slower, standalone-ish episode (Grodd) right before the action-heavy 2-part finale? In any case, there were several important developments here: Barry got his speed back, trigger pulled on WestAllen, and we see the next step in Zoom's plan.

[johntfs]

I think Caitlin has resigned herself to being with Zoom because she recognizes that she's the only thing that can act as a brake on his evil-ass crazy.  If she somehow turns evil because of love/reason, I will find a way to punch the showrunners through the internet.

Edited May 11, 2016 by johntfs

[Actionmage]

Quote

If it takes Caitlin not being there to get Iris this much to do, then I say go ahead and turn Caitlin into Killer Frost and remove her from the team. She was not missed at all in this ep, imo.

Quote

Eh, I don't think that's really a fair assesement.   Caitlin's absence had nothing to do with how Iris was written?  I mean what did Iris do that Caitlin would have definitely done instead?   Really I think her absence was strictly about not knowing what to do with her.  I mean having her escape or contact the gang yet again would have made Zoom look like an even bigger idiot.   We've been playing the Caitlin tries to get Hunter to be a better person game for weeks now and did not need yet another plot of that.  So what was there for her to do that would have not felt completely extraneous?

 

That is a very sad, and probably accurate, assessment of the situation. The writing is so tipped to highlight Barry- reasonably- that a fleshed-out supporting world is forgotten in the process. Like Caitlin last night. She's had two proactive actions in three episodes, but allowing us into Caitlin's POV, as opposed to zombie madness for example, could have been an interesting parallel. While Barry is choosing what/how he returns to everyone, so is Caitlin and we get her reasons for doing so, as opposed to sitting and yelling at the TV to run away to her friends and being baffled as to why she didn't/ wouldn't. 

Like the comparisons of CA:CW and BvS,  folks don't have to diminish one to spotlight the other. We can have two fleshed-out female characters on the show. Or three, since it looks like Jesse might hang about for a little bit.

[CletusMusashi]

Random thoughts.

1. It was a good team-building episode. We saw almost everybody act like equal members of the team. Wells trusting Other Dad with his daughter's life, for example. Or Joe teaming up against Zomgirder with Iris instead of arguing with her for half an hour. Everybody who was conscious did the most useful thing for the group that they could. Except maybe Wally, who remains useless.

2. Never mind the episode title. I don't even understand why that book was called "The Runaway Dinosaur." It should have been called "The Dinosaur Who Wanted To Be a Different Kind of Dinosaur."

3. With all the shit they had going on this week, it sure was nice of Zoom to stay away. Instead of, oh, I don't know.. maybe acting his usual self and tormenting them every five minutes with his newly charged superpowers...

4. I hope there's a newscast or something in which Sisko sees all the new supervillains, just so he can make up names for them before we find out that they already have underwhelming ones.

5. Overall, flaws or not, I think if they trimmed five minutes of Barry Getting A Pep Talk out of it, this would have been great. As it was, well, hey, at least it was good. I'll settle for good, That's been in short supply lately.

 

ETA: I spelled "Cisco" wrong, didn't I? My bad. Can't imagine why I suddenly have this show mixed up with DS9...

Edited May 13, 2016 by CletusMusashi

[marcee]

The "Sit, Barry, Sit," happened with every version of the SpeedForce - but I think it was just meant to show a) that every being was another version of that same SpeedForce and b) the juxtaposition of when it finally said, "Run, Barry, Run."

[ruby24]

I'm not sure where else to put this question, so I guess I'll just ask it here. Has anyone else noticed that Grant seems to have developed a pretty obvious case of vocal fry this season?

I wouldn't have an issue with it except that he did NOT talk like this last season, and having watched some Season 1 episodes lately, it's that much more striking. I just kinda wonder how that happened all of a sudden (okay, fine, I do think it's kind of annoying and I'd prefer his old voice back).

[KirkB]

I've been thinking about how much of what happened was really the Speed Force communicating with Barry and how much was Barry, basically, talking to himself (or as people like to say, giving himself a pep talk). When Cisco went in earlier, and then later when he and Iris went it, all they saw was Barry standing there by himself, staring off into space. Whereas Barry saw places and people he was familiar with. Now obviously you can make the case that since Cisco and Iris are not speedsters they aren't able to perceive the Speed Force as anything more than a mass of energy. Or it it's actually sentient then maybe it chose not to show them anything. But I wonder if maybe Barry didn't get sucked into the source of his powers and needed to convince himself he was ready and able to go out and be the Flash again. He needed to be the one to decide it was time to leave. The whole "sit, Barry, sit" thing could be taken as Barry, on some level, giving in and not wanting to leave, basically becoming one with the Speed Force.  

Though that would probably be me giving the writers a little too much credit. It was probably just Speedie Force telling Barry to "Run!" like everyone else does.

[Potanical Pardon]

That's how I viewed it as that's how the comics are. It's not sentient and everything that happened was Barry lost in the Speed Force and his mind fighting to make sense of it all so he basically doesn't lose his identity/mind by visualizing things in a familiar way.

Other notes:

Yes, the Speed Force can create "clothes" for Barry.

How can Wally possibly not know Barry is the Flash by now?!!!!! 

There's a couple things from the comics that I hope the show never does and hope the comics retconned out also:

Positive and Negative Speed Forces. Barry is the engine of the Positive SF/creator of the Positive SF and Thawne is the same for the Negative Speed Force. And it retroactively exists outside of time even before either are born since the beginning of time because...reasons.

Edited May 11, 2016 by Potanical Pardon

[Trini]

12 minutes ago, Potanical Pardon said:

Yes, the Speed Force can create "clothes" for Barry.

Boo.
I mean, if you're going to copy Fringe, copy Fringe.  ;-P

[MaggieG]

I really enjoyed this episode. Cisco was on point as usual and I loved him and Iris working together. I enjoyed the Jay cameo as well. 

[Grace19]

20 hours ago, Jediknight said:

"That wasn't my mom or yours."

What the butt Iris?  Barry's mother was murdered, she was always there for Barry while alive.  That was not the right thing to have her say.

I saw that as her mom choose not to be there for her,and Barry's mom was not there too even though it was not her choice. The book will be painful for either of them because they didn't have their mom growing up.
 

[Grace19]

19 hours ago, ruby24 said:

So apparently Candice was sick during the filming of this episode...maybe that has something to do with them not kissing? I don't know. I would like them to show some passion as well, and that would have been the perfect moment for a big kiss.

I heard the same thing. She did good this episode even though she was sick,it did not affect her acting at all. I love Candice.
 

[Grace19]

Nice episode, but I prefer the previous episode to this, I even prefer the westallen scene in the previous episode, that being said I rate this episode above the others just for the good Iris scenes we got that had nothing to do with her romance with Barry. I also love Iris and Cisco together and she fit in so easily in star labs. My favorite Iris line till date might just be, "You get behind me." I love it, thats the Iris we all deserve.

Maybe Barry and Iris didn't kiss, because they were standing on his mothers grave, lol. I kinda love that their relationship is not yet defined, its just beginning, so I love that Barry said, "i don't know what this is."

other this I loved:

Joe trying to find out if wally is a meta-human

Barry's three dads

Joe actually letting Iris do what she wants, growth.

Barry and Iris in the speed-force reminded me of guardians of the galaxy, "peter, take my hand!"
 

[GHScorpiosRule]

On 5/11/2016 at 9:09 PM, johntfs said:

And of course Jsaon Mewes and his mom's Hummer.

Papa Allen: "I'm staying with you from now on, Barry.  And by from now on, I of course mean until the end of the next episode when I'll almost certainly get murdered by Zoom, but still, from now on."

 

20 hours ago, Trini said:

La la lalaaa; I can't hear you!

 

Add me to that list! LALALALALALALALALALAAAAA!!!!!!! What? I can't hear you! Must be some technical internetie interference...what's that you say? Huh? Whut? lalalalalalalalalalalalalalallaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!

Ahem

Yes, it was obvious to me Candice was fighting a cold in this episode. She sounded...stuffed up. But I was still yelling, "KISS HER, YOU FOOL!!!!!" I'll have to rewatch, because I totally couldn't tell that he kissed her on the cheek.

And I will not lie. I was bawling during the scenes with SpeedForce!Nora and Barry. During Barry's retelling of the dinosaur story, and when she told him to run.

Honestly, though I liked it, I couldn't help but think of Justice League Unlimited's "Divided We Fall" where Wally's Flash goes supersonic and rips Brainiac away from Lex and is trapped in the Speed force? Or wherever he was, Shayera grabs his hand, and Lantern grabs her hand, Diana, Supes, J'onn, Bats, all form a human rope and pull him out. I know, I know, not the same thing, but that's what came to mind as i was watching it.

I guess I don't understand how Wally doesn't realize that he's got powers, IF he got powers when the Speed force went through him. Like, wouldn't he feel different? Still don't care about him, but some things are just making me scratch my head.

And yes, Grant Gustin is an amazing crier.

[johntfs]

4 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

 

And yes, Grant Gustin is an amazing crier.

If he loses his speed again, he can shift his opening to:

"My name is Barry Allen.  I was The Fastest Man Alive.  But then I gave my speed away to a prince in Nigeria who e-mailed me about getting some money out of the country and seemed totes sincere.  Now I fight crime with the power of my tears and snot.  I am... Waterworks."

[phoenics]

10 hours ago, ruby24 said:

I guess they're saving the kiss for the finale, but the reason it felt weird that there wasn't one was because it sure seemed like they're declaring themselves a couple now. I mean, telling someone "you're everything to me" and having them react with joy doesn't seem like leaving the relationship ambiguous, so I think that's why people are confused that they didn't kiss there.

I really think this is because CP was sick during filming - but they could have done something to rework the dialogue to account for that - and a couple of other things too.  I just feel like these writers just don't know how to do romance.  This is where having David Nutter there would really help them - he understands how to do romance.  Last season the Grodd episode had David Nutter - and you could tell.

7 hours ago, ruby24 said:

I'm not sure where else to put this question, so I guess I'll just ask it here. Has anyone else noticed that Grant seems to have developed a pretty obvious case of vocal fry this season?

I wouldn't have an issue with it except that he did NOT talk like this last season, and having watched some Season 1 episodes lately, it's that much more striking. I just kinda wonder how that happened all of a sudden (okay, fine, I do think it's kind of annoying and I'd prefer his old voice back).

I'm sorry - what's "vocal fry"?  Nevermind - I just looked it up - sat through a very informative news video!  I think Grant has been doing that since Season 1, so I guess I haven't noticed as much?

Edited May 12, 2016 by phoenics

[Potanical Pardon]

7 hours ago, Trini said:

Boo.
I mean, if you're going to copy Fringe, copy Fringe.  ;-P

Oh, I meant it in a non-oversight (someone asked earlier), established in the mythos back in 1994. As much as I LOVE Fringe and Walter and Peter are basically my father and me...

Edited May 12, 2016 by Potanical Pardon

[hello]

Quote

And he's still hung up on his mom's death? Ugh.

Yikes. Well, if Captain Cold decides to retire I think we've got his replacement...

[Trini]

3 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

And yes, Grant Gustin is an amazing crier.

Single manly tear -- that takes skills, yo.  :)
 

3 hours ago, johntfs said:

If he loses his speed again, he can shift his opening to:

"My name is Barry Allen.  I was The Fastest Man Alive.  But then I gave my speed away to a prince in Nigeria who e-mailed me about getting some money out of the country and seemed totes sincere.  Now I fight crime with the power of my tears and snot.  I am... Waterworks."

Hee! He can stop criminals in their tracks with his moist puppy dog eyes! But seriously, I actually want Rainbow Raider to come back, but activate other emotions; sadness can be one of them.

[Trini]

On a completely different note; did they write new music for this episode? The theme played when Barry was ready to return I don't think I've heard on the show before.

[ohjoy]

19 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Honestly, though I liked it, I couldn't help but think of Justice League Unlimited's "Divided We Fall" where Wally's Flash goes supersonic and rips Brainiac away from Lex and is trapped in the Speed force? Or wherever he was, Shayera grabs his hand, and Lantern grabs her hand, Diana, Supes, J'onn, Bats, all form a human rope and pull him out. I know, I know, not the same thing, but that's what came to mind as i was watching it.

Me too! I think I actually would have like everyone linking hands to pull Barry out -- and the "yay team - together we got him back!" reactions we got would have fit nicely with that visual.

[North of Eden]

What did I just watch?! Are the writers DEEP SPACE NINE fans....this whole speed force thing was almost a note for note rip off of The Prophets in the Celestial Temple and I guess that makes Barry (not Ramon) The Sisko.

Why can't Barry have super speed due to the lighting strike, the chemicals and the particle accelerator explosion? Why does there have to be mystism?

Finally I can't believe they went with the older than dirt Good News/ Bad News gag.

[Iamsweetdee]

2 hours ago, North of Eden said:

What did I just watch?! Are the writers DEEP SPACE NINE fans....this whole speed force thing was almost a note for note rip off of The Prophets in the Celestial Temple and I guess that makes Barry (not Ramon) The Sisko.

Why can't Barry have super speed due to the lighting strike, the chemicals and the particle accelerator explosion? Why does there have to be mystism?

Finally I can't believe they went with the older than dirt Good News/ Bad News gag.

Don't think Deep Space Nine had anything to do with it. It's straight out of the comics. As a matter of fact, this exact storyline (Barry/Speed Force/trying to give himself powers) is a comic one. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_Force

Edited May 13, 2016 by Iamsweetdee

[zannej]

On 5/11/2016 at 0:27 AM, Whodunnit said:

I think that when Barry touched Jesse, he accidentally lent her a tiny bit of his speed, and that jumpstarted her speedster healing ability. ( Assuming that the same rules apply for her as for Barry.) 

I hope that they do introduce us to Caitlin's family; we have seen Barry's family, the West family, we know about earth 1 Harrison Wells fiance, earth 2 Harrison Wells's daughter and his wife's death ( though not her name) and we saw Cisco's family and seen him bond with his brother Dante. All we know of Caitlin outside of Star Labs is about her mom being 'frigid'. (We also know about Ronnie, but we know little about their past and most of what we do know took place in Star Labs). Come to think of it, we have never seen Caitlin's house... no doubt that is because of the tiny set budget.

I think Jesse already had the speedforce in her but it took some sort of spark from Barry to awaken it. I wonder if Thawne just wasn't able to do that with Barry or if he didn't know how. Of course, he might not have ever just held Barry's hand. Although, he may have held something else- I mean, Barry probably needed a catheter at some point.

Caitlin mentioned that her father had MS or something-- when she found out "Jay" was dying and tried to make it all about herself. As Trini said, we have seen her bedroom. On one hand, it would be interesting to find out if Caitlin had a brother that died and her parents never told her. On the other, I just have a hard time actually caring much about Caitlin because of the acting.

On 5/11/2016 at 0:41 AM, Trini said:

I've thought from the beginning of this season that Caitlin should have kept her job at Mercury Labs (but still working with Team Flash), and maybe have Tina McGee recurring as her mentor.

And speaking of Caitlin, we did see her bedroom that one time when Barry had to bring her home drunk.

Yeah. I think the character and audience would have been better served by having her off at Mercury Labs instead of pining for Ronnie and Jay.

On 5/11/2016 at 5:24 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

My favorite thing in this episode was Harrison shaking his head and making faces while Cisco tried to explain the Girder situation to Barry. I also loved the way Cisco and Harrison were working together and in sync, answering in unison ("Plan H!") and finishing each other's sentences. They're a better team than Cisco and Caitlin were.

Totally loved that we got the metallic version of Drake Holloway the zombie.

SERIOUSLY! I was totally cracking up that my CPR class wasted time teaching us to ask, "Annie, Annie, are you okay?" and doing actual CPR when yelling, "JESSIE! WAKE UP!" was apparently enough.

Kevin Smith said on Twitter that Carlos and Tom did the whole Jay & Silent Bob routine on their own in the first take and he loved it. I thought it worked out pretty well. Then having them say the same things at the same time was cool.

So, the guy who played Girder played a Zombie on another show? I've heard of iZombie but never watched it. I don't even know what network it's on.

Oh man, now I have that Michael Jackson song in my head. LOL. At least I like the song.

On 5/11/2016 at 5:58 AM, pookat said:

You just gave me a Michael Jackson flashback!

So, are we to surmise that the Speedforce CHOSE Barry? It wasn't only the lightning, chemicals and particle accelerator? If so, why did it choose evil Hunter Zolomon to become Zoom, or for that matter the vengeful Eobard Thawne? I definitely got vibes that the Speedforce was a living entity, a la The Force, midichlorians and all.

LOL. Me too!

I think the speedforce allowed Thawne and Zoom to have power so they could challenge Barry and make him stronger. Barry would not have become the speedster he is now without Thawne. And notice how, when Thawne was just going to leave and things were such that Barry might not have become the Flash, the speedforce left him so he had to stay and create the Flash in order to try to get home. I do wonder if the speedforce ever spoke to him and told him he had to fight the Flash.

Of course, it's entirely possible that the entire speedforce thing was all in Barry's mind and was his mind's way of helping him deal with the trauma and put him back on track.

On 5/11/2016 at 8:56 AM, Enero said:

Caitlin, I didn't even miss her and didn't even care.  I was baffled though by what DP was trying to convey in that last scene. Fear, anger, surprise?? She was just...there with her eyes stretched wide. Terrible acting.

Yeah. The main reason I have a problem with Caitlin is the acting. I think if they had a better actress, I would want to see more of her. Unfortunately, Danielle's acting choices leave much to be desired and sometimes watching her is just painful or take me out of the scene and ruin it for me. I've had to try to ignore her reactions a lot of the time to be able to enjoy a scene.

That said, I don't care for Teddy Sear's acting either.

On 5/11/2016 at 11:54 AM, Actionmage said:

That is a very sad, and probably accurate, assessment of the situation. The writing is so tipped to highlight Barry- reasonably- that a fleshed-out supporting world is forgotten in the process. Like Caitlin last night. She's had two proactive actions in three episodes, but allowing us into Caitlin's POV, as opposed to zombie madness for example, could have been an interesting parallel. While Barry is choosing what/how he returns to everyone, so is Caitlin and we get her reasons for doing so, as opposed to sitting and yelling at the TV to run away to her friends and being baffled as to why she didn't/ wouldn't.

I actually enjoyed the episode more because of Caitlin's absence throughout. I would rather have it end up being Caitlin who dies or leaves instead of Henry because at least John Wesley Shipp can act. But I'm sure that Henry's death would cause Barry more angst.

I found a lot of the speedforce scenes to be boring. I was amused by the "Sit, Barry, sit" and I said to my screen "good dog" and said they need to give him a speedforce snack. The "Run, Barry, Run" thing always made me think of "Run, Forrest, Run!"

I think most of the people did a good job on the acting, but the way they filmed the CPR scene was not good. That was the most half-assed CPR I've ever seen on TV. There are ways to film it to make it look more realistic-- like showing the actor's face while he moves up and down making it look like he's forcefully giving compressions. A lot of actors cheat and bend their elbows. I mean, I understand that it isn't safe to have an actor legitimately do chest compressions on another living person who is not in cardiac arrest- but they could have used a dummy and blocked the scene so it would look like he was doing CPR on a real person. The only other thing I can think of was that maybe Harry just didn't know how to do CPR and/or he was panicking. I mean, he did try to outrun Zoom at one point when he was panicking. So he doesn't always make the right decisions.

I did think it was odd that Wally didn't seem to even ask WTF was going on with Jesse or ask if she was ok. He just spent a few hours locked in a room with her and when he came to, she wasn't breathing and her heart stopped. You'd think Wally would have been more concerned. The only reason I can think of him just being compliant is that he was still too stunned by what had happened and wasn't thinking properly.

I could tell that poor Candace had a pretty bad cold. I don't know if that was why they didn't go for a kiss though. I think the writers are still trying to stall on that front.

The FX of having Barry and Iris hold hands while spinning inside the lightning storm made me laugh.

I liked the "Zombies? For real?" from Cisco. I think season 1 Cisco would have been a lot more frightened-- but by now he's seen so much messed up stuff that he's more exasperated with things than he is scared.

Loved when Barry came back and Cisco was all "I'm so glad you're back, because we are about to die!" and Barry goes from smiling to "Wait, what?"

I was cracking up at how both Cisco and Harry formed fists as Girder was beating down the door. And I know it was an homage to a Jay & Silent Bob skit, but I loved how Harry wasn't even able to speak and just gestured and made faces.

I do wish there had actually been dinosaurs in the episode-- or at least one dinosaur. And I wish Barry and Iris had actually kissed.

I think that when Joe dropped the mug, he was hoping Wally would catch it-- not that he just wanted to destroy the mug. I also like how Joe was the one who was keeping the other two dad's in line-- getting Henry to calm down and focus on helping Jesse and getting Harry to calm down and focus on finding Barry.

I don't think there the reactions from Joe and Iris were underplayed or unrealistic. When a loved one dies suddenly it doesn't quite sink in at first. There is just this weird feeling of being in a dreamland and the adrenaline rush can make you feel sort of numb in a way. I think they were still just trying to wrap their brains around it.

I suspect that maybe Wally was still off-kilter because of nearly dying shortly before and then getting hit with whatever hit him so maybe that was why he was compliant and just stayed in the house like he was told. Perhaps he was showing a sense of self-preservation.

I liked the juxtaposition of angsty Barry grabbing his shadow and becoming a confident Barry who was at peace. There was just a different sense-- more of a zen feeling-- coming from Barry when he returned.

Too bad the episode ended with two of the worst actors on the show. So, Hunter tells Caitlin that she can go but basically he'll kill her if she leaves-- but it looked like she was in the police station or up in Barry's lab-- so, exactly how was she supposed to leave? Hunter and the other metahumans were pretty much blocking the exit. And I know Caitlin is supposed to be uptight and is not necessarily the best at thinking on her feet and manipulating people-- she did a horrible job when trying to distract Eobard/Wells last season. It was very obvious that she was nervous-- but thus far all she's done is whine and snipe at Hunter. If she tried to play along, it might work out better for her.

I still think it would have been funny if she'd walked out while he was giving his speech, tapped him on the shoulder, and said she needed to go to the bathroom and would be right back.

I actually enjoyed the ZombieGirder parts of this episode. Too bad they had to cut a scene with Harry and Henry talking though.

[Actionmage]

Quote

So, Hunter tells Caitlin that she can go but basically he'll kill her if she leaves-- but it looked like she was in the police station or up in Barry's lab-- so, exactly how was she supposed to leave?

Zoom indicated that there was a back exit that Caitlin could take to escape. He then followed up with the 'stay- you might survive, leave and I'll kill you like your friends' not-really-a-choice choice. I did wish she'd tried to leave, but she might've been the first of the Flash Mob to fall.

Edited May 13, 2016 by Actionmage

[AudienceofOne]

4 hours ago, zannej said:

So, the guy who played Girder played a Zombie on another show? I've heard of iZombie but never watched it. I don't even know what network it's on.

 

IMHO, iZombie was the best thing on TV this year and Season 2 was better than Season 1 (which was also awesome). Greg Finley is in Season 2.

[pookat]

7 hours ago, zannej said:

Oh man, now I have that Michael Jackson song in my head. LOL. At least I like the song.

This is for everyone who now has that Annie song (aka Smooth Criminal) in their head and remembers how a number of us first came to discover Grant's many talents. I still can't believe my sweet, pep-talk-needing Barry Allen was once the evil Sebastian. That is some major chemistry with Naya Rivera, though.

[millennium]

Directorial-wise, I saw little to distinguish Kevin Smith's work from any other director this season, except that he exploited the opportunity to shoehorn one of his cronies into the script.   Otherwise, same old same old.   Although the speed force vortex effect seemed cheap and Barry and Iris looked pretty stiff inside it.

I liked the idea of Barry having a heart-to-heart talk with one of the forces of the universe.   I could sure use one myself.

[ottoDbusdriver]

2 hours ago, millennium said:

Directorial-wise, I saw little to distinguish Kevin Smith's work from any other director this season, except that he exploited the opportunity to shoehorn one of his cronies into the script.   Otherwise, same old same old.   Although the speed force vortex effect seemed cheap and Barry and Iris looked pretty stiff inside it.

I liked the idea of Barry having a heart-to-heart talk with one of the forces of the universe.   I could sure use one myself.

That whole vortex seemed like pretty crappy CGI.

I'm a big fan of Kevin Smith, and aside from Mewes' cameo there was nothing that stood out that it was KS as director.  Now if KS had written the episode, it would have been a completely different story.

[zannej]

I forgot to mention one thing that did stand out was they didn't hide the brand name on Harry's watch when he was checking Jesse's pulse. It's a Samsung. Looks like it's a Samsung Gear Live with a prop flip cover stuck on top.

Also, one minor nitpick-- correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the attack and Nora's murder happen in 1999? If so, why does her grave say 2000?

Edited May 14, 2016 by zannej

[ratgirlagogo]

On 5/11/2016 at 1:07 AM, twoods said:

Greg had lots of practice being a zombie since he was one on IZombie.

I liked this episode a lot but that was my favorite thing in it.

[bettername2come]

1 hour ago, zannej said:

Also, one minor nitpick-- correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the attack and Nora's murder happen in 1999? If so, why does her grave say 2000?

The date they gave in Thawne's confession was March 18, 2000. Which fits with Barry being 11 when his mother died and 25 in the first season.

Edited May 14, 2016 by bettername2come

[KirkB]

You mentioning that makes me wonder. Eobard Thawne, in the guise of Harrison Wells, gave a deathbed confession (of sorts) toward killing Nora, which got Henry released from prison. Fine. Only now Harrison Wells, the real Harrison Wells (albeit one from a parallel Earth) is running around Central City. Harrison Wells who is legally and I presume publicly known to be responsible for a murder. Yet the only person who seems to notice is that guy a couple of episodes back who was affected by the particle accelerator? 

[ratgirlagogo]

Is there some  reason (copyright fees, etc?)why they didn't use the actual book The Runaway Bunny by Margaret Wise Brown? 

[Trini]

19 hours ago, millennium said:

Directorial-wise, I saw little to distinguish Kevin Smith's work from any other director this season, ...

Agreed; if anything, I think the writing was the most different for this one. So I wouldn't mind if Stenz wrote more episodes.

[pookat]

I was just rewatching S1 and I'm actually impressed by the many callbacks in this and other recent episodes to last season.

Joe broke Barry's mug at the station ("I loved that mug!") when checking to see if Barry's powers had returned after facing off with Blackout/Farooq (who also killed Girder the first time). When Iris saw Barry's broken mug, she was like, "Barry loves that mug!" which was so cute. Joe also tries to break a flower vase in (a very high) Eddie's hospital room at the end of that ep, so apparently breaking things his kids (real, surrogate and almost-in-law) have an attachment to is his move when assessing speed powers.

I also noticed that Joe tells Cisco to get behind him that (or one of the other S1 eps), so it's really cool when Iris does exactly the same thing to him here. Iris was also the one whose boxing skills at age 11 knocked Barry down when Joe was training him to fight Tony (future Girder).

Side note: it is a whole different experience watching S1 knowing who Wells/Thawne really is. The evil is always there, but the way it comes out is pretty brilliant. Tom Cavanagh needs an Emmy. It's also Wells/Thawne who first tells Joe that Barry's biggest enemy is doubt in the second ep, which tells me they wrote Barry intentionally as a hero who needs pep talks. I can see how that might grate after the 20th time, but I kind of like the fact that he isn't an obnoxiously overconfident hero even if he had to be taught to look before he runs headfirst into danger (thank you, Oliver Queen, and the two arrows in the back. Ouch!)

I'm not sure Teddy Sears is quite on Cavanagh's level, though once he was revealed as Zoom, he's been excellent. I'm looking forward to rewatching S2 for early clues.

DP also seemed much more natural and interesting in S1. Not sure if it's the writing or the acting. Candice and Grant continue to be so talented and have such great chemistry. I hope they recapture the brightness and playful chemistry of S1 going forward.