S01.E20: Better Angels

[FurryFury]

So cheesy - yet I liked it. Well, except for James who's like really, really useless - he feels like the obligatory love interest whom no one - neither the writers nor the audience - cares about. I hope they'll do away with the character. He can go back to Clark or go do his own thing somewhere else. The show's really starting to gel, but he, and to a lesser extent Wynn, bring all this action to a screeching halt. And speaking about Wynn, I actually really liked the scene with him and Kara when she thanks him for being her friend. Keep it up like that and maybe I'll start liking him... eventually.

 

Alex/Kara is just sheer perfection and I love how the show never really stepped away from it being its central relationship. A year ago, when I've first seen the pilot, it was something that made me immediately invest in it, and this thread had a fitting closure in this finale. Great job.

 

Kara/Cat was also well done, as was anything with Hank/MM and Maxwell Lord (whom I've come to seriously love, his scenes with basically anybody are great, and yes, I totally do ship him with Alex a bit).

 

Oh, and please, please, show - if you get renewed (and I hope to God you do!) find a way to resolve the Clark problem. It's just too glaring. Kill him off or something if you must.

[iMonrey]

 

Did we miss a scene showing that Kryptonian escape pods have giant robot hands that she used to pluck Kara from space and carry her back to Earth?

 

Heh, I was curious as to how Alex managed to accomplish that as well. Presumably all the pods were designed to do were transport someone to safety, not embark on rescue missions. They don't even have the ability to course-correct if they're "knocked off course" for some reason, apparently, so I don't know how Alex even managed to maneuver one to a specific location.

Edited April 19, 2016 by iMonrey

[KirkB]

I hadn't even thought about that until it was mentioned here, but it's a really good point. I suppose I can accept Alex managing to pilot the thing (the DEO has had 13 years or so to study how it works). But putting aside a full grown Alex is larger than a 13 year old Kara, who took up most of the room herself as I recall) how DID she manage to get Kara into the pod? I guess maybe she could have had on a space suit and vented the ship when she opened the hatch, but how would she and Kara both manage to fit inside the thing considering there really shouldn't have been enough room for even one adult? And she would have had to get the thing up and running pretty quickly, during part of which time she and everyone else at the base was suffering from a potentially fatal, crippling headache.

Edited April 19, 2016 by KirkB

[AD35]

 

Not a bad episode, although man, they made Superman look horrible.

 

This version gets turned into a mind-controlled drone by a fellow Kryptonian. The movie version gets taken out like last night's garbage by Batman.  This isn't shaping up to be a good year for Superman.

Edited April 19, 2016 by AD35

[AudienceofOne]

Delivered earnestly:

"Do we know why Superman hasn't woken up?"

"No."

 

Episode ends with Kara instant messaging Clark

 

So... still not answering the whole "why did Superman not wake up?" question and now we have the additional "why did he wake up off screen?" one as well? Thanks for the plot hole, show. But I really enjoyed all the random shots of his feet.

[Kromm]

I hadn't even thought about that until it was mentioned here, but it's a really good point. I suppose I can accept Alex managing to pilot the thing (the DEO has had 13 years or so to study how it works). But putting aside a full grown Alex is larger than a 13 year old Kara, who took up most of the room herself as I recall) how DID she manage to get Kara into the pod? I guess maybe she could have had on a space suit and vented the ship when she opened the hatch, but how would she and Kara both manage to fit inside the thing considering there really shouldn't have been enough room for even one adult? And she would have had to get the thing up and running pretty quickly, during part of which time she and everyone else at the base was suffering from a potentially fatal, crippling headache.

The only explanation I can think of is some kind of Tractor Beam on the pod. Which is definitely an odd thing to have to fanwank. And hmmm. Perhaps the pod is shielded,so that even if we were spared the scene, meant Alex crawling to the pod in pain, closing the hatch, then suddenly popping up and saying "my headache is gone!"

[Perfect Xero]

Heh, I was curious as to how Alex managed to accomplish that as well. Presumably all the pods were designed to do were transport someone to safety, not embark on rescue missions. They don't even have the ability to course-correct if they're "knocked off course" for some reason, apparently, so I don't know how Alex even managed to maneuver one to a specific location.

 

Keeping in mind that Kara is invulnerable, I'm just assuming that Alex just used the pod to push her back in to the Earth's atmosphere, like a game of super bumper cars, and then gravity took it's course, then she and the DEO picked her up wherever she landed like she was a blonde crash test dummy.

 

This show could do a much better job using off screen Superman than it does. Don't put him in a coma, then just say that Superman went in first and drew Non's army* in to fighting/chasing him, thus clearing the way for Supergirl and J'onn to take on Non and Indigo. Then you don't have to use the lame excuse that Non's army just couldn't wait 5 minutes to go to sleep, Clark gets to do something useful off screen, and Kara still gets to be the big damn hero.

 

*Speaking of Non's army, weren't they basically supposed to be a bunch of environmentalists who were using extreme measures to try to save the population from themselves, first on Krypton and then on Earth? Shouldn't, like, at least a few of them have taken issue with their plan going from "Put the human race under mind control so we can force them to work together to save the planet," to "Kill them all and conquer new planets, MWAHAHA!"?

Edited April 20, 2016 by Perfect Xero

[Kromm]

*Speaking of Non's army, weren't they basically supposed to be a bunch of environmentalists who were using extreme measures to try to save the population from themselves, first on Krypton and then on Earth? Shouldn't, like, at least a few of them have taken issue with their plan going from "Put the human race under mind control so we can force them to work together to save the planet," to "Kill them all and conquer new planets, MWAHAHA!"?

Non's army was composed of both people who were part of his faction on Krypton, and a much larger group of prisoners, both Kryptonian and alien, who were imprisoned in Fort Rozz for other reasons.  That should have led to even MORE dissent--from both sides. Individuals who thought Non had gone totally off the deep end, and others who thought he should have done it far sooner.

[KirkB]

Keeping in mind that Kara is invulnerable, I'm just assuming that Alex just used the pod to push her back in to the Earth's atmosphere, like a game of super bumper cars, and then gravity took it's course, then she and the DEO picked her up wherever she landed like she was a blonde crash test dummy.

 

 

This is such a fantastic (and hilarious) explanation I am immediately adopting it as my headcanon. Thank you.  :)

[TV Anonymous]

Lame, lame, lame. Did I say lame? LAME!

 

So the Myriad program / device that supposedly be the ultimate, unstoppable weapon can be defeated with just message of love, hope and the 'S' symbol? What is next? Rainbows, unicorns and care bears?

 

And how is it Kara's heatwave is more powerful than Non's? Non is a military man that supposedly has spent significant portion of his adult life for fighting while Kara is just in her forming in the superhero type. To make analogy to human, it is reasonable to expect a man like Chris Vance to win in a fight over a woman like Melissa Benoist. Except of course if she has special training like Ronda Rousey or Katheryn Winnick. The problem is, the show never indicates that. It is just the power of rainbows and unicorns.

 

Kara's promotion from an executive assistant to a position with a private office that is almost as big as my living room? Apparently there is no HR in Catco. And there is no performance assessment either.

 

Since when does a Kryptonian need to breath in outer space (or under water for that matter)? Agree, it has never been addressed in the show, but it is comic canon that Superman and Supergirl are able to fly away to different planets.

 

What else? Yeah, I agree with comments above. If Indigo is such a non-matter being, why can she be torn apart? She could transform to data form when Martian Manhunter picked her up. I also agree with Alex and the pod. How did Alex take Supergirl down to earth?

 

Maybe because this is CBS, but this part of Arrowverse disappoints me. I may or may not continue next season, depends on the schedule.

[Lugal]

Keeping in mind that Kara is invulnerable, I'm just assuming that Alex just used the pod to push her back in to the Earth's atmosphere, like a game of super bumper cars, and then gravity took it's course, then she and the DEO picked her up wherever she landed like she was a blonde crash test dummy.

That's exactly how I pictured Alex bringing Kara back to Earth!  I assume Alex had all those years (and Kara to help her) to learn how to fly the pod.  I also assume Alex learned to move the seat back, otherwise she would have been flying the pod with her knees up to her chin.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

The Supergirl Finale Gets Heavy
Kara finishes out a season with the world on her shoulders.

[Kromm]

And how is it Kara's heatwave is more powerful than Non's? Non is a military man that supposedly has spent significant portion of his adult life for fighting while Kara is just in her forming in the superhero type. To make analogy to human, it is reasonable to expect a man like Chris Vance to win in a fight over a woman like Melissa Benoist. Except of course if she has special training like Ronda Rousey or Katheryn Winnick. The problem is, the show never indicates that. It is just the power of rainbows and unicorns.

I'm confused. What does body size, or even physical condition have to do with Heat Vision?

 

To me the main issue is if Non has been on Earth actively training that particular skill or not. The Fort Rozz backstory we were originally given by Hank when Kara first entered the DEO suggests the Kryptonians HAVE been on Earth the whole time (the same 12 years as Kara)... but that never made sense anyway because given how over the top their actions are now, it's inconceivable--even with the cannier Astra in charge--that they would have waited all that time and not been out there using Superpowers visibly to cause trouble. Ergo, I think we've always, since Day 1 of the show, had to reinterpret the backstory a bit. 

 

I think we can also interpret control over the Heat Vision a few other ways. If it's just anger than powers it, perhaps Kara has more... issues... driving her anger. If it's willpower, that's a loose, easily wanked requirement, which could also be explained by Non being military, but not particularly well controlled (when he was at Asta's side he certainly was always on the verge of undermining her, for example). Or again if it gets back to their active time on Earth, perhaps it's the old "how much solar radiation have they absorbed" explanation they used in the actual comics a few times to explain various Kryptonian power levels. In this case, like training the specific skill (meaning the person would have to be on Earth to have the powers to train), the amount of radiation absorbed would have to rely on some explanation where the Kryptonians haven't actually been on Earth the whole time. A kind of shitty fanwank to have to rely on, but again, since we also need to explain their 12 years of inaction, the problem is already sitting there needing to be addressed. 

 

Of course the biggest silliness is that for all the pounding that Kryptonians can do that it DID apparently come down to Heat Vision. That's eyerollworthy all on it's own. The suggestion is that all of the other fighting a Kryptonian with powers can do is just a prelude and it always comes down to the Heat Vision. A fairly dumb conceit.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Kromm

[Dobian]

I was actually waiting for Supergirl to burn up on re-entry.  *cough*

 

As for who has the better super powers, none of these Kryptonians had these powers back on Krypton, they were just regular people.  So all of them have about the same experience level with using them.  And these powers don't really seem to be related to a person's true physical dimensions, so it's a pretty level playing field.  And it would have been more fun if Kara had just dove under Non's heat vision and kicked him in the nuts.  Certain rules still apply for guys whether they have super powers or not!

[secnarf]

Just got around to watching the episode now. Like so many episodes of this show, it was good unless you stop and question or think about the plot at all; then you'll just get confused by the sheer number of plot holes.

 

Keeping in mind that Kara is invulnerable, I'm just assuming that Alex just used the pod to push her back in to the Earth's atmosphere, like a game of super bumper cars, and then gravity took it's course, then she and the DEO picked her up wherever she landed like she was a blonde crash test dummy.

This is what I had assumed as well.

 

That's exactly how I pictured Alex bringing Kara back to Earth!  I assume Alex had all those years (and Kara to help her) to learn how to fly the pod.  I also assume Alex learned to move the seat back, otherwise she would have been flying the pod with her knees up to her chin.

The pod was at the DEO, which Kara was unaware of until she is shown in the first or second episode. Of course, I have no idea where she thought her pod was in the interim.

[Kromm]

As for who has the better super powers, none of these Kryptonians had these powers back on Krypton, they were just regular people.  So all of them have about the same experience level with using them. 

That's actually likely not true--at least without some story-wanking. As Hank first explained things, Fort Rozz crashed on Earth 12 years previously. And we know Kara spent most of those 12 years NOT practicing her powers. 

 

I think we have to create some conceit that somehow the Kryptonians were actively inhibited for some years. Them being under Astra's command isn't really enough to explain their total inaction, and if they did have the powers that long they would have had 12 years of practice, vs Kara's... 1 year of active use.

 

The only head-canon I can think of that even close to works would be if they were intentionally in suspended animation, or something like that, most of the time waiting for a specific time to implement their plan.  Leaving them only the active time since they cranked the plan up to full status to get out there and practice.

 

 

And these powers don't really seem to be related to a person's true physical dimensions, so it's a pretty level playing field.  

True enough. Which is why "experience"/practice is the main issue, I think.

[Winston Wolfe]

Note to writers for Season 2 (if it happens):  This show, as it stands now, requires far too much fan-wanking.  Do better next year guys, or there might not be a Season 3.

[Kromm]

Note to writers for Season 2 (if it happens):  This show, as it stands now, requires far too much fan-wanking.  Do better next year guys, or there might not be a Season 3.

I genuinely don't think the ratings depend on that. What good internal consistency does is give the show better long-term reputation, but in the short term I think it's only people like us who care.

 

As bad as some of the examples we've seen on this show are, I think we've seen much worse from Agents of SHIELD, or Once Upon A Time, Supernatural. or in their day, shows like Smallville or even just soapy non-fantasy shows like Desperate Housewives. Heck, even a lot of procedurals have been pretty bad. Characters just waiting for shit, or doing shit, that makes no sense without wanking. People having magical convenient skills in certain things. Timelines that make no logical sense. Character actions and/or motivations that completely flip-flop. Etc. Etc.

I think we want it clean because it makes us feel better about watching these shows if it makes sense.  Sadly I don't think most viewers share that viewpoint.

[legaleagle53]

TV Anonymous, on 20 Apr 2016 - 08:02 AM, said:TV Anonymous, on 20 Apr 2016 - 08:02 AM, said:TV Anonymous, on 20 Apr 2016 - 08:02 AM, said:

Kara's promotion from an executive assistant to a position with a private office that is almost as big as my living room? Apparently there is no HR in Catco. And there is no performance assessment either.

 

Kara works directly for Cat, who is both the owner and the CEO of Catco.  As such, she can do pretty much whatever she wants, whenever she wants.  In other words, HR takes orders from her, not the other way around, so if she wants to promote Kara, she can do so without having to go through HR, just as she could summarily fire Siobhan for insubordination and outright sabotage without having to clear it through HR.  What's HR going to do, fire Cat?

Edited April 21, 2016 by legaleagle53

[ottoDbusdriver]

To me the main issue is if Non has been on Earth actively training that particular skill or not. The Fort Rozz backstory we were originally given by Hank when Kara first entered the DEO suggests the Kryptonians HAVE been on Earth the whole time (the same 12 years as Kara)... but that never made sense anyway because given how over the top their actions are now, it's inconceivable--even with the cannier Astra in charge--that they would have waited all that time and not been out there using Superpowers visibly to cause trouble. Ergo, I think we've always, since Day 1 of the show, had to reinterpret the backstory a bit. 

 

So much this !

 

What exactly were possibly dozens of super-powered beings with vast superiority complexes doing all this time ?  Blending in ?  I doubt it.  How would Indigo resist the temptation to screw with the Internet for years ?

 

Same thing applies to the guard that was on Fort Rozz -- what the hell was he doing all this time ?

 

Why did none of them go after Kal-el ?  Why did Kal-El never go after any of them ?  It's not like Superman wasn't aware of Fort Rozz -- heck he should have been recruited to round them up.  Was he busy doing laundry ?

 

No one -- not including Google Earth satellites -- noticed the monstrous structure that is Fort Rozz sitting in the desert in 12 years !  12 years !!

Edited April 21, 2016 by ottoDbusdriver

[Kromm]

That last one is the only thing we can justify--via a run of the mill government conspiracy theory.

 

It would actually be harder to cover the actions of superpowered individuals than a stationary point in the desert, where all you have to do is throw your weight around and divert or edit the footage from the satellites. 

[bros402]

No one -- not including Google Earth satellites -- noticed the monstrous structure that is Fort Rozz sitting in the desert in 12 years !  12 years !!

 

They said they activated the cloaking technology to hide Fort Rozz.

 

Though why a space prison HAD cloaking technology in the first place...

[Ottis]

Something is wrong with this show. It's been there since the beginning and when done well, it's a nice differentiator between this and other superhero shows. But's it's become more maudlin and ridiculous instead of more nuanced. And it seems to be spreading to The Flash, which this week felt like a Supergirl Lite episode.

 

It's the way they write emotions into an action show. Supergirl's unique viewpoint of an outsider alien who integrated with a human family and siblings adds a lot of depth. So does her struggle to adjust and use her super powers as a developing hero. But this fixation over whether the populace loves or hates her (and how much she cares), and the beyond ridiculous moping in this episode because of the assumption that, whenever she got around to doing something to save the world, she would die, is beyond eye rolling. Heroes don't constantly naval gaze. They take action, they make sacrifices and they own it. Supergirl wants to examine it from every angle, and fill in the gaps with angst, before something happens.

 

And I'm not even talking about whether Jimmy loves Kara, or Kara loves Jimmy, or Win loves Kara, or whether Kara is mad at her sister or not ... blah, blah, blah. All the "I'm not good enough" stuff needs to be toned down. The fact Supergirl chooses to help, even if it is imperfect, is enough. She learns from her mistakes, and keeps trying. That's what matters. Moping over whether to try, or whether you are trying enough, or whether you deserves the support of others, is a waste of time in a show like this, and it drags it down every time. Some uncertainty because of her specific past (though honestly, what exactly was alien about her? She looked like everyone else, her only issue was one that many humans have, shyness and being an awkward teen) is OK, and figuring out how to be a "hero" is OK, but enough with the need for approval.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Ottis

[KirkB]

No one -- not including Google Earth satellites -- noticed the monstrous structure that is Fort Rozz sitting in the desert in 12 years !  12 years !!

 

 

I was just going to mention the cloaking device but bros402 beat me to it. That said, it raises a question for me. General Lane specifically said they couldn't move the damn thing so they activated the cloak and apparently never bothered to guard it, or even keep an eye on it, since Non and the others have apparently been working out of it ever since. But this episode Kara picked it up and threw it off Earth. Are they seriously telling us that in 13 years nobody ever thought to ask Superman to do the same thing?

Edited April 21, 2016 by KirkB

[Kromm]

Ottis, I know these kinds of things are subjective, but I do think you're overstating the problem. Those "am I good enough to be a hero/why don't they love me" angles are pretty standard for Superheroes--albeit that they're actually far more of a traditional Marvel Comics thing than a DC Comics one. The Spider-Man comic, for example, was built on that (and has operated that way for almost it's whole existence). It may be so that the Supergirl scripts have been kind of awkward with it, but I don't think it's been overwhelmed by it. Angst can just be a code word for conflict, and it can certainly go very wrong on a show, but I don't think the angst here passed the point of merely being somewhat annoying at times, but workable at other times.

I was just going to mention the cloaking device but bros402 beat me to it. That said, it raises a question for me. General Lane specifically said they couldn't move the damn thing so they activated the cloak and apparently never bothered to guard it, or even keep an eye on it, since Non and the others have apparently been working out of it ever since. But this episode Kara picked it up and threw it off Earth. Are they seriously telling us that in 13 years nobody ever thought to ask Superman to do the same thing?

This one's easy to explain--they've been hiding most of this from Superman.  Hank pretty much admitted it early in the series. Admittedly you'd think you wouldn't be able to hide much from him, but even X-Ray vision requires you to be looking in a certain place to see something. If he had no reason to look at that part of the desert... it's easy to explain why he never saw it, and it's even easier to explain why the government boxed him out of anything having to do with Fort Rozz and the escaped aliens.  He DID think he was the only Kryptonian on Earth. We know that too (although again it begs the question of how the actions of the escapees were so in check for a dozen years that none of them ever stepped enough over the line to get his attention). 

Though why a space prison HAD cloaking technology in the first place...

The only wank I can think of for this is what I'd call the "Space Pirate" defense--although that's somewhat ruined by Rozz normally being in another dimension where no Space Pirates would even be able to get to it.  But maybe it's simply automatically built into all Kryptonian space vehicles/structures.

[mtlchick]

I just realize something: we never saw how Eliza and Alex were introduced to Cat.  My memory is fuzzy if Eliza had met Cat when she was in town before, but how do you explain their connection to Supergirl if Cat "doesn't know" who Kara really is?

[Kromm]

I just realize something: we never saw how Eliza and Alex were introduced to Cat.  My memory is fuzzy if Eliza had met Cat when she was in town before, but how do you explain their connection to Supergirl if Cat "doesn't know" who Kara really is?

It is a laughable tissue paper of half-truths at best.  Doesn't Cat know that Alex is Alex Danvers, but that she also works with Hank Henshaw, who she's seen introduced as some kind of FBI agent (or was it a Homeland Security Agent? I think it was FBI...)  And while the DEO and its mission is not totally out... you'd have to be a fool to miss the fact that Supergirl has government friends.... and that Kara's sister works for the government.

 

Then again... Cat knows.  We all know she knows. The shapechanger double didn't fool her for even a second. If you're confronted by an alien who can shoot lasers out of her eyes and lift buildings, then the idea of shapechanging or some kind of super-hypnotism, or Super-robot-doubles, or whatever is not that hard to consider. And honestly... the subtext as I've said elsewhere might even be that Lois Lane (pre-marriage), Perry White, Jimmy (earlier in his career) probably all "figured out" that Clark Kent was pulling identity tricks like this too. If Cat was even peripheral to those events, she'd have a basis to have seen and heard a lot of that too.

 

And really... wasn't the ENTIRE point of Cat getting Kara's name right to wink at us that any mistake Cat seems to make is just a pose/manipulation? Well... other than apparently traveling into work one morning and not noticing everyone else were zombies.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Kromm

[KirkB]

This one's easy to explain--they've been hiding most of this from Superman.  Hank pretty much admitted it early in the series. Admittedly you'd think you wouldn't be able to hide much from him, but even X-Ray vision requires you to be looking in a certain place to see something. If he had no reason to look at that part of the desert... it's easy to explain why he never saw it, and it's even easier to explain why the government boxed him out of anything having to do with Fort Rozz and the escaped aliens.  He DID think he was the only Kryptonian on Earth. We know that too (although again it begs the question of how the actions of the escapees were so in check for a dozen years that none of them ever stepped enough over the line to get his attention).

 

 

Hang on. Fort Rozz crashed at the same time as Kara did. Kal knows full well he isn't the only Kryptonian by that point since he was actually there to pull her out of the pod right after she landed. Yet somehow he missed the gigantic alien prison which landed in Nevada? And while I understand the government, especially a group like the DEO, not trusting Superman on some level they decided to hide from him the fact that dozens, if not hundreds, of super powered alien criminals (including other Kryptonians I might add) were now free on Earth? I guess he was just lucky that all of them were wary enough of him to stay out of his way, at least until Kara suited up.

[miracole]

What is next? Rainbows, unicorns and care bears?

 

Not care bears, Kara bears...

[justjoan]

 

Heroes don't constantly naval gaze.

 

Mileage varies in this as in all things, but the only way this could possibly be true is in a world where Marvel Comics doesn't exist, and DC only publishes Booster and Beetle.

[Kromm]

Hang on. Fort Rozz crashed at the same time as Kara did. Kal knows full well he isn't the only Kryptonian by that point since he was actually there to pull her out of the pod right after she landed. Yet somehow he missed the gigantic alien prison which landed in Nevada? And while I understand the government, especially a group like the DEO, not trusting Superman on some level they decided to hide from him the fact that dozens, if not hundreds, of super powered alien criminals (including other Kryptonians I might add) were now free on Earth? I guess he was just lucky that all of them were wary enough of him to stay out of his way, at least until Kara suited up.

I myself said that didn't make sense--that the, staying hidden is the biggest "stupid" of the whole thing. Hiding an object is far easier than hiding people--who are mobile, have willpower, can be unpredictable and willful, etc. The whole story of Fort Rozz has to be wanked so hard, it should hurt. 

 

One head-canon explanation could be that Hank was glossing things over (remember he had no trust in Supergirl at that point). Perhaps Fort Rozz had the Prisoners in stasis of some type and the actual escape was that failing and letting them out at some later time.  It's a threadbare idea however that doesn't really totally work. An alternate might be them going into some voluntary form of stasis once they escaped Rozz. That would explain some random individuals (some we've even met) running around the whole 12 years, while the bulk of the ones loyal to Astra weren't. Of course it would return us to the question of why Non wasn't much better trained with his powers in that period (even if they voluntarily put themselves on ice, they'd still have enough time around the edges of that to be better than some girl who only just started to train). 

[Kromm]

Mileage varies in this as in all things, but the only way this could possibly be true is in a world where Marvel Comics doesn't exist, and DC only publishes Booster and Beetle.

Bingo.  As I said, Marvel tends that whole direction anyway, and Spider-Man is the king of it. Iron Man (at least the comic book--moreso than the movies) has more than a bit of it too. Daredevil has a decent amount of it. Hulk is almost the very definition of it--then again Hulk is often not in control of himself. Who else? Hmm. Fantastic Four--especially The Thing. 

 

But let's look at DC... Green Lantern. Especially the Kyle Raynor version. Green Arrow (the comic book version more than the TV one). Certain writers on even Batman and Superman have had stages where even if they were confident of their abilities, the heroes went into tailspins with storylines where the whole world hated them and they moped/angsted about it.  

 

It is, as I said, fairly standard comic book fare.

[Argenta]

I'm the kind of person who generally just enjoys film and TV on its own terms without being critical, and thus far I've really liked this show despite the issues with the writing. But this finale pushed things too far.

I won't bother listing all the plot holes, inconsistencies and plain silly things they were trying to sell us since other posters have already skewered them all quite neatly. But even assuming a lot of goodwill towards the show, the problems this week were just too big and obvious to overlook.

I really hope things get tightened up next season, and it should start with Kal-El. His non-presence is becoming increasingly hard to manage/explain away. DC needs to stop being so precious about the character and allow the TV-verse more leeway.

On the plus side, I would have watched the entire episode just to see Alex and Max clasp hands. I've always had a thing for the bad boys and I ship those two so hard

[xaxat]

For all of the plot holes in this episode, Flash made even less sense this week.

[KirkB]

Sorry Kromm. I looked back at what I wrote and in hindsight I realize that came off ruder than I intended. The thing I really don't understand about Fort Rozz is the government's apparent lack of interest in it, either as a source of information/technology or a potential threat that needed to be monitored. It's been sitting there for 13 years, and even if the DEO is the only agency aware of its existence (how a gigantic thing like that could have entered Earth's atmosphere without anyone else noticing is another issue) they apparently have not bothered to exploit its tech (as far as I know) or kept an eye on it to make sure no one escaped or to notice Astra and her forces have been flying in and out and using it as a base of operations.

Edited April 22, 2016 by KirkB

[Miss Scarlet]

This show is over the top sappy. I don't mind some sap, but it's basically in every scene. Melissa Benoist and Chyler Leigh are doing a great job, but the writing is letting them down. I feel like the repeat the same conversation of "I love you. You're stronger than me. I learned everything from you." in every episode. When they were doing that in this episode I thought, "I've heard this dialogue so many times."

 

 

I came here to see what the comments would be about Jimmy & Kara, and surprisingly, at this point, 99.9% of the posts didn't even mention them. What wasn't said actually says a lot. I think she sparkles and he is so flat. I see no chemistry between them at all. They need to keep Jimmy with Lucy. That actress has enough chemistry for both of them.

I think James just doesn't serve much of a purpose anymore. And yes, I find him to be quite flat as well. I just don't think Mehcad Brooks is a strong actor and I think it shows when he's in scenes with Melissa Benoist. The time that they're devoting to James and Kara could be devoted to way more interesting storylines. And their relationships just feels way too forced. 

 

I really like MM, but he does backup for Supergirl so often that it's starting to feel like the show should be called Supergirl and J'ohn J'onzz. I wonder if they were intending for him to play such a big role, or if it just developed organically as they were writing the episodes. I don't remember Superman having much backup on Smallville, but I could be totally wrong about that. 

 

Unpopular opinion - I don't think Calista Flockhart is doing a great job here. She's very monotone and lethargic most of the time. I know that it's probably partly how Cat Grant is written, but I don't know that it needs to sound like she's constantly reading from a teleprompter. 

 

I hope we get more Kara on Red K next season. That was fun.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Miss Scarlet

[Kendra]

This show is over the top sappy. I don't mind some sap, but it's basically in every scene. Melissa Benoist and Chyler Leigh are doing a great job, but the writing is letting them down. I feel like the repeat the same conversation of "I love you. You're stronger than me. I learned everything from you." in every episode. When they were doing that in this episode I thought, "I've heard this dialogue so many times."

 

 

I'm so glad someone else said it, because I feel the same way. After the fifth or sixth time of Alex and Kara having a cry fest about how much they mean to each other, it's starting to get old for me. When they had their scene in the finale, I found myself actually rolling my eyes as I've already heard that dialogue multiple times and I already know nothing is going to happen to either one of them. I do appreciate the Alex/Kara relationship and I recognize it is a big aspect of the show. But honestly, outside of her special bond with Kara, I find Alex to be really boring. 

[j5cochran]

I'm reading many complaints about James Olsen, and I have to agree that the character is boring.  And that's a real shame, because Mehcad Brooks is a good actor.  I loved him in the USA Network series Necessary Roughness, as a football star forced into counseling for on- and off-the-field problems.  Brooks was charming and vulnerable and showed a wonderful range in that character, which proves (to me) that the writing for James Olsen just isn't there.

 

 

[Delphi]

I'm not exactly an expert on alien space ships crashing onto earth but I don't think the pod and the prison had to fall at exactly the same speed to exactly the same place.

[Kromm]

I'm not exactly an expert on alien space ships crashing onto earth but I don't think the pod and the prison had to fall at exactly the same speed to exactly the same place.

In fact, there's little to no chance they'd wind up in the same place--at least if we're talking about the effects of wind resistance on falling objects of vastly different sizes.

[Delphi]

Okay that's what I figured. :)

So I assume Clark found Kara's pod somewhere and it didn't even occur to him to go looking for a giant prison ship and the DEO just never bothered to tell him about it.

[Perfect Xero]

Kara continues to have more chemistry with text messages on a computer screen than she does with James or Winn.

 

Okay that's what I figured. :)

So I assume Clark found Kara's pod somewhere and it didn't even occur to him to go looking for a giant prison ship and the DEO just never bothered to tell him about it.

 

Well, it makes little sense that J'onn wouldn't tell Superman if the DEO knew, but there's a lot of failure to share information on this show.

[LisaM]

I really enjoyed the finale - more than I thought I would. Curious to see if/how Lucy is going to remain at the DEO? I hope that Eliza sticks around and becomes more prominent now that the search is on for her husband. 

 

Loved that Cat finally called Kara by her name. 

[ottoDbusdriver]

How is Fort Rozz not crashing back to Earth ?  It's not like Fort Rozz was sent away from Earth at escape velocity, it just kind of drifted away from Kara  And why didn't J'onn J'onzz provide an assist getting Fort Rozz into space ?  He was right there.

 

Does Alex not know how gravity works -- because there is gravity in space ?  Lots of gravity, that's why the moon doesn't leave orbit.

 

Does Supergirl really need gravity to generate thrust ?  While that might explain her powers of going up and down it doesn't explain how she can go from side to side, you know, flying ?

 

Plus, I thought the output of our yellow sun gave Supergirl her powers.  In fact they have pointed it out many times in previous episodes with the tanning bed at the DEO when Supergirl needs to recharge occasionally when she depletes herself.  So what does gravity have to do with her flying ability ?  That's right, nothing !!

 

Superman can fly in space without air, so why can't Supergirl ?  This just makes the ending where Alex needed to save her seem all the more stupid.  And as pointed out upthread, how did Alex save Kara ?  It's not like she popped the top on the Betta fish escape pod and dragged Kara's limp body onboard -- plus Alex wasn't wearing a spacesuit so she couldn't even open the escape pod because, as Alex pointed out, there's no air in space.  Unless Alex pulled a Homer Simpson.

 

Warden: He painted a unicorn in outer space! So I'm askin' you, what's he breathin'?!
Homer: Air
Warden: There's no air in space
Homer: There's an air in space museum

 

I like that during J'onn's speech at the end, he mentioned defeating Non and Myriad there was no mention of Indigo because she was just that forgettable.

[secnarf]

How is Fort Rozz not crashing back to Earth ?  It's not like Fort Rozz was sent away from Earth at escape velocity, it just kind of drifted away from Kara  And why didn't J'onn J'onzz provide an assist getting Fort Rozz into space ?  He was right there.

 

Does Alex not know how gravity works -- because there is gravity in space ?  Lots of gravity, that's why the moon doesn't leave orbit.

 

Does Supergirl really need gravity to generate thrust ?  While that might explain her powers of going up and down it doesn't explain how she can go from side to side, you know, flying ?

 

Plus, I thought the output of our yellow sun gave Supergirl her powers.  In fact they have pointed it out many times in previous episodes with the tanning bed at the DEO when Supergirl needs to recharge occasionally when she depletes herself.  So what does gravity have to do with her flying ability ?  That's right, nothing !!

 

Superman can fly in space without air, so why can't Supergirl ?  This just makes the ending where Alex needed to save her seem all the more stupid.  And as pointed out upthread, how did Alex save Kara ?  It's not like she popped the top on the Betta fish escape pod and dragged Kara's limp body onboard -- plus Alex wasn't wearing a spacesuit so she couldn't even open the escape pod because, as Alex pointed out, there's no air in space.  Unless Alex pulled a Homer Simpson.

 

Warden: He painted a unicorn in outer space! So I'm askin' you, what's he breathin'?!

Homer: Air

Warden: There's no air in space

Homer: There's an air in space museum

 

I like that during J'onn's speech at the end, he mentioned defeating Non and Myriad there was no mention of Indigo because she was just that forgettable.

You don't need gravity to generate thrust, you need air molecules. The gravity issue, I assumed, was that once Kara pushed Fort Rozz far enough away that it was at least in orbit around the earth and wouldn't get sucked back down to the ground, Kara also would be in "orbit" and not just fall back to earth via gravity.

I think general consensus is that Alex didn't exit the pod in space to pull Kara in, and rather just nudged Kara along to get her back to Earth.

 

As for Superman being able to fly in space, I have nothing :P

[KirkB]

I have no idea what sort of explanations may have been offered in the comics, but on the show we have no idea HOW Kara and Clark, or J'onn for that matter, actually fly. Whether it's some form of telekinesis or invisible waves of energy shooting out of their feet or whatever. Clearly it's not simply propulsion since they can hover, they're aren't acting like they've been shot out of a cannon. I guess, since we don't know what it is, the writers have a little bit of leeway in saying Clark can fly in space but Kara can't, or at least can't yet.

 

And I still love the image of Alex bumping Kara over and over (and probably going "sorry" each time) to get her back to Earth.

[legaleagle53]

Flying in Earth's gravity and flying in what for all intents and purposes is zero gravity are two different things.  Alex knew that Kara had no experience in weightless environments and was afraid that she wouldn't be able to control her flight power well enough to get back to Earth once she had gotten Fort Rozz off Earth.

 

As for the explanation of what gives Kryptonians the ability to fly in the first place, it's a combination of Earth's yellow sun and its gravity, which is much lower than that of Krypton.  Anytime one or both of those elements are absent, their powers are either weakened or completely nullified.  In the case of low or non-existent gravity, the ability to fly is made unpredictable because even with experience in low- or -zero gravity environments, there is still some loss of control.

[Winston Wolfe]

John Byrne (during his Superman run) and Chris Claremont (while on X-Men) both offered interesting versions on characters' ability to fly.  IIRC, Byrne posited that Superman flew "by sheer force of will," while over on the X-Men, Claremont offered that Rogue (when she still possessed Ms. Marvel's powers) flew because her body "generated a force greater than gravity."  Although neither explanation likely holds up to scientific scrutiny, the second reason sounds more credible to me.

[Perfect Xero]

I don't know if it's changed since new 52, but prior to that the explanation in John Byrne's post-Crisis reboot of Superman was that Superman's body was surrounded by a sort of telekinetic field that gave him the ability to fly and also augmented his strength and durability, as well as being how he's able to pick up huge objects without them tearing apart.

[Kromm]

I don't know if it's changed since new 52, but prior to that the explanation in John Byrne's post-Crisis reboot of Superman was that Superman's body was surrounded by a sort of telekinetic field that gave him the ability to fly and also augmented his strength and durability, as well as being how he's able to pick up huge objects without them tearing apart.

I think they used that to justify Connor Kent Superboy's telekinetic powers too--that it was some variant.