S02.E10: Klick

[FortKnox]

Quick question. That shack Hector and Nacho where at, was that the one Tuco took Walt and Jesse or am I just imagining things?

[Boilergal]

I think I'm remembering this correctly - Chuck was talking to Kim, maybe, and discussing how much he hated Jimmy from the time the parents brought him home from the hospital.  Chuckie clearly has mommy issues - and I loathe him for not telling Jimmy that she called for him at her end - or having the nurse page to get him back upstairs to say goodbye.  It was probably THE crappiest most spiteful thing he could have done.  It really says a lot about Chuck's regard for Jimmy and the ends he will go to just to destroy anything that Jimmy builds - or just take it away under the guise of "you can't do all the work yourself".   I think we are getting closer to the point where Jimmy is just going to have break that bond because there is absolutely no way it can ever be repaired.  

 

I cheered when Chuck was catatonic - hoped that it would last longer, like forever.

 

I'm hoping that the tape in the recorder is at least a good 10+ years old,  it has sitting out in a dry garage it is rotted to the point it won't play back to the point where the conversation won't be intelligible. 

Edited April 19, 2016 by Boilergal

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Better Call Saul Asks: What's The Only Thing Worse Than A Lawyer In The Family?
Two lawyers in the family! Looking back on Season 2 the finale's last sick, dark joke.

[Bannon]

Quick question. That shack Hector and Nacho where at, was that the one Tuco took Walt and Jesse or am I just imagining things?

The shack where Tuco had wheechair-bound Tio was out on the flat, open, plain, where anyone approaching could be seen from great distances. The shack last night was at the foot of a ridge, in terrain with a lot of change in elevation.  

[FortKnox]

The shack where Tuco had wheechair-bound Tio was out on the flat, open, plain, where anyone approaching could be seen from great distances. The shack last night was at the foot of a ridge, in terrain with a lot of change in elevation.

OK thanks. I don't know why I thought that was it.

[shapeshifter]

It's driving Chuck crazy that no one ever sees things his way, but maybe that's because he's focusing too much on Jimmy's flaws, and not seeing what a big heart he has.

After Chuck is home again, he actually said to Jimmy, "I'm just being petty." Are we to take that as a genuine chink in Chuck's armor (when he said it I hoped it was the beginning of a new, kinder, gentler Chuck), or was it part of his scheme to get Jimmy's confession?

[SailorGirl]

 

I liked the FB. Their mother calling out for Jimmy while unaware of Chuck was sad for Chuck, but it's just another bit of evidence of why he's so resentful of Jimmy. As Tommy Smothers said, "Mom always liked you best!"

 

I felt so bad for Chuck when he was in the ER with the doctors shining lights in his eyes, setting him up for an EEG, etc. The way this was filmed was so good. I'm sure he felt like he was being tortured. And then to be inserted into the MRI machine and have to endure that? I get pissed at Chuck so much, but I couldn't help but feel for him.

 

I didn't feel for Chuck at all, other than delight as he was being dealt with in the hospital. I have ZERO sympathy for him. He's made all this up and its a manifestation of his jealousy over his little brother. Oh, so mommy called out for your brother instead of you. How exactly is that Jimmy's fault? GET THE FUCK OVER IT, CHUCK.  Oh, so you were the perfect son and did everything right and Jimmy made mistakes but everyone still liked him? That's the way the world freakin' works, dude! Some people are just more inherently likeable, no matter what stupid shit they do. Jealousy of a sibling as a child is normal, but you are a grown man at this point. WORK YOUR SHIT OUT! There's a little thing called "THERAPY"????? 

My older sister (four years older) was jealous of me from the day I was born. She despises me, merely because I exist. I was sick as a child and so my parents, by default, had to give me more attention. She never got over it, and blames me for it. Because I had SO much say in any of it. When we were adults (me, mid 20s, her, late 20s), we actually tried to talk about it at one point. She looked me square in the eye and said with venom and hatred, "My life was perfect until you came along." it was one of the most hate-filled, honest things I've ever heard anyone say. She then proceeded to detail all of the horrible things I did to her -- like the time I crawled into the room when she was playing with blocks and knocked her tower over. I looked at her and said, "you were four. Get over it!" I mean really, how perfect was her life at age 4 that I could ruin everything . . . I guess that block tower was quite the architectural marvel? I could go on and on about the issues she has with me, all because I was and am a pleasant, likeable person of whom she is jealous. 

 

I'm now in my late 40s, she's in her early 50s, and we don't talk. To this day, she still despises me and blames me for everything wrong in her life, merely because I was born. Okay, whatever . . . I now just laugh about it and think she's ridiculous, as does most of the rest of my family. That said, I spent much of my late teens and early 20s beating myself up, trying to figure out what was so wrong with me that my own sister hated me.

That come-to-Jesus moment of realization when you finally get that it is someone else's issues and has nothing to do with you is amazing! I wish Jimmy would have that moment once and for all, tell Chuck to GET THE FUCK OVER IT, and be done with him once and for all. I can guarantee first hand that living a happy, successful life and not giving a shit what your petty, jealous family member thinks is the best revenge and only makes them more miserable (added bonus!) 

I don't feel as strongly as some of you about this episode (looking at you Umbelina -- tell us how you really feel about this one! :-D), but it definitely wasn't one of the best, and I agree that the writers can do so much better. . . 

 

Ten months until season 3? Really? Ugh! 

[PrincessSteel]

The hospital scenes! That was some real Cuckoo's Nest shit. The fact that Chuck was able to go to such elaborate measures to trick Jimmy into his confession shows that BOTH brothers are con men at heart. I sure hope that someone points this out to Chuck early in the next season. An entire lifetime--that is an impressive long con.

[ByTor]

Amazing finale! All around amazing job from everyone involved.

I am assuming I was wrong about the truck driver never being seen again and that was him shot & buried in the desert. EXCELLENT job at creating tension during the "Mike looking through the scope of the rifle" scene, as well as fantastic acting by Jonathan Banks, he did more with facial expressions alone than many do with words. I also loved the note on the car. I had a feeling Mike wasn't as inconspicuous as he thought he was, and even though Mike has always been a character I loved to watch, I love him being shown as not as smart as he thinks he is, especially since this is something he accuses others of.

Chuck...you are one evil genius!

In conclusion...I am a Summer person and a Winter hater, so damn you BCS for making me look forward to February again!!!

[ByTor]

Howard (the Ken Doll) was probably in on it, and there was no resignation letter.

Then he was holding a blank piece of paper for our benefit that Jimmy couldn't see? Chuck just out-Jimmyed Jimmy, and I think both writing and acting were brilliant.

Now who didn't see that coming?  Apparently, Jimmy didn't.

I didn't either.

[ByTor]

My biggest complaint with season 2 is that the writers never managed to tie the Mike storyline back into the Jimmy storyline, so although they were always careful to keep them thematically connected, plot-wise it ended up feeling like we were watching two separate shows simultaneously.

Honestly, that doesn't bother me. I think now that they have a season 3, the writers knew they'd have plenty of time to do so. And, I am in complete agreement with the remainder of your post that I didn't quote.

I liked it. A lot. *ducking*

Don't duck, it was an excellent episode :) Edited April 19, 2016 by ByTor

[benteen]

One thing I was curious about...Jimmy mentioned the only time he returned to Chicago over the past ten years prior to last season was when his mother died.  We don't know how close to Chuck getting Jimmy off on those charges but did they really not visit the mother at all for years?  I see that being a Chuck thing.

 

I felt sorry for Chuck for one moment when his mother didn't say his name but that was wiped away pretty quickly.

Edited April 19, 2016 by benteen

[LoneHaranguer]

 

I'm hoping that the tape in the recorder is at least a good 10+ years old,  it has sitting out in a dry garage it is rotted to the point it won't play back to the point where the conversation won't be intelligible.

That type of recorder generally has a terrible microphone built in, and Chuck made his chances of getting an intelligible recording much worse by burying it so that Jimmy wouldn't see it. Chuck could probably still bluff Jimmy.

 

Were the writers really that desperate to get viewers back next season that they felt they needed to do this style of season finale? I'm sure it works for a lot of people (or they wouldn't do it), but it just pisses me off and makes it less likely I'll be back.

[SoSueMe]

I am a little puzzled that the Rebecca character was given enough weight to name an episode after her.

 

There must be a LOT more to that back story.

[Ottis]

That being said, this was probably my least favorite episode of the season.

 

 

Mine as well. I get that who Jimmy is comes directly from his entwinement with Chuck throughout his life, but at some point you realize you are who you are, and who he is, and you act differently. Jimmy can't seem to do that. I was so sad when he chose to run across the street to the copy shop to help Chuck, when all that happened was Chuck had an episode and got a bump on the head. Let it go.

 

Also, it was clear what Chuck planned as soon as he looked up and headed to the garage with purpose. The only act left to Chuck was to get a confession, and it had to be recorded. His conversation with Jimmy was well done. At first it would have sounded on the recording like Jimmy was humoring a crazy accusation, but Chuck kept it going until so many details came out that it was clear this was a confession. Jimmy practices law on BB, so he apparently gets out of it, but I suppose we need to enjoy the journey.

[SoSueMe]

After all the speculation that Chuck's head injury would be fatal, I'm really glad it wasn't. I want Chuck to stick around a while longer, all the while hating him, lol.

[ShadowFacts]

After Chuck is home again, he actually said to Jimmy, "I'm just being petty." Are we to take that as a genuine chink in Chuck's armor (when he said it I hoped it was the beginning of a new, kinder, gentler Chuck), or was it part of his scheme to get Jimmy's confession?

 

I think it was part of Chuck's plan.  He may have even started plotting while in his self-induced catatonia.  I was glad Chuck didn't die or go into a coma, but I hoped for something a little different than he doubles down on his animosity.  I don't think this can be anything other than ugly and tragic.  It was good to see from all the tests that were done that there is nothing physical like a seizure disorder or brain tumor, and that it is untreated mental illness and nothing else. 

 

What seems to be playing out is that Jimmy has a caretaking personality, and there is a bit of co-dependence going on here.  I guess I hoped for less of this fraternal psychodrama, not more.  After this tape-recording mess wraps up, Jimmy needs to totally break from the millstone that is Chuck. 

[Justin]

"Why are there so many damned commercial breaks during this show? It seems to be 41 minutes of drama, 19 minutes of commercial."

Because that is the exact ratio that AMC one hour shows stick to. The best you can hope for is 43/17 on a commercial network.

[qtpye]

I was disappointed in the finale, but I reserve my final judgment until the premiere next season.  I thought the plot was a little too precious and not nuanced enough.

 

I mean so mom called out Jimmy's name...so what? 

 

It was not like she was saying "Oh Jimmy I love you so much and my last dying wish is that you dick punch Chuck". 

 

It seemed to me that she was delusional and actually thought she was berating Jimmy for something.  Okay, I guess her last thought was of Jimmy, but it really did not give me favoritism vibes.

 

I think Chuck being crazy jealous of Jimmy was not panned out well at all.  I mean up until the bar passage and law degree, Jimmy was probably looked upon as the loser brother...the black sheep.

 

I mean last season we felt that Chuck was an elitist snob that did not want Jimmy to succeed out of his "station in life", which was the mail room.

 

Now we find out that Chuck has always been jealous of Jimmy, because everyone loved him due to his charm?

 

I guess both could be true, but it just was not told in the shades of grey that we are used to from Gilligan.  Right now Chuck is an evil asshole and Jimmy is a too trusting and naive brother.

 

However, perhaps Jimmy has something up his sleeve...something so awesome and bad that it destroys Chuck and turns him into Saul.

[scenario]

The tape will backfire against Chuck. We know that Jimmy can think quick on his feet. Jimmy walked into the room and believed that his brother was going over the edge. When he considered confessing the lawyer Jimmy and the con man Slipping Jimmy both knew everything you say can and will be used against you. They also know that Chuck has an amazing memory, makes a lifestyle out of attention to detail and is very, very devoted to honesty when it comes to the law. When asked, Chuck will give a very detailed description of what and how Jimmy said it. Chuck really can't lie in court, its against his nature. Slipping Jimmy was careful never to say what he did in the entire conversation. He just said, Chuck your right over and over again. Whether or not he suspected Chuck was recording it Slipping Jimmy is too smart to come out and provide any details that Chuck hadn't said first.

 

"Did your brother say he did it or did he just agree with what you said happened?" "He just agreed that what I said was true." "So your brother agreed with a man who was mentally ill and possibly suicidal?" "Well, yes."

 

I think that Jimmy is finally reaching the end of his patience against Chuck. He knows that Chuck almost killed himself in his quest to get Jimmy when he went into the copy shop. I think this is kind of a test for Jimmy. See what Chuck does. Give Chuck enough rope to hang himself. If Chuck decides to go after Jimmy, Jimmy will use the tape as proof that his brother is losing it and is so paranoid of Jimmy that he will do or say anything to get him.  If Chuck testifies in front of the bar exam against Jimmy, Jimmy will make him look like a mentally ill paranoid brother. Which is what Chuck is.Jimmy has a huge pile of evidence against Chuck, but he doesn't want to use it. But he would use it in self defense. Once the evidence is on record, the court will change the hearing from is Jimmy competent to be a lawyer to is Chuck competent to be a lawyer fairly quickly. Chuck will lose his licence to practice law without Jimmy having to actively go after him. Chuck will lose it by his own actions. 

 

 

[heisenberg]

I liked the finale. 

 

On a regular tv show, the season would have stop last week leaving us wondering if Chuck was dead or not as a cliffhanger. 

[shapeshifter]

I mean so mom called out Jimmy's name...so what? 

 

It was not like she was saying "Oh Jimmy I love you so much and my last dying wish is that you dick punch Chuck". 

 

It seemed to me that she was delusional and actually thought she was berating Jimmy for something.  Okay, I guess her last thought was of Jimmy, but it really did not give me favoritism vibes.

I wondered if she just sensed/heard him leaving the room.

[knaankos]

Ok for the theory that Jimmy knew he was being recorded and hence chose his words carefully. Why would he do that? What's his play in saying just enough so that Chuck thinks of it as a confession? He doesn't want it to go away and wants to go to court vs Chuck? That doesn't seem likely

[ByTor]

Also, it was clear what Chuck planned as soon as he looked up and headed to the garage with purpose.

*shrug* I thought his purpose was to find something to hang himself with.

[Dev F]

One thing I was curious about...Jimmy mentioned the only time he returned toe Chicago over the past ten years prior to last season was when his mother died.  We don't know how close to Chuck getting Jimmy off on those charges but did they really not visit the mother at all for years?  I see that being a Chuck thing.

 

The only mention of that is during Jimmy's reunion with Marco, right? All he said there was that he did come back to Chicago for his mom's funeral. He certainly wanted Marco to think that he'd only been back in town that one time and he was too busy to give his friend a call, but unless I'm forgetting some other reference, it's possible that he came back to Chicago regularly to see his mom and didn't look Marco up then, either -- since the implication is that he was purposely avoiding his supposed bad influence.

 

On another subject, I think there's one aspect of Jimmy's confession that suggests that it was for real: he provides a motive, an impassioned speech about how he did it all for Kim. That's the one part where he doesn't just tell Chuck what he expects to hear; indeed, Chuck nudges him to admit that his motive is to humiliate his brother, and Jimmy specifically refutes it. To believe that Jimmy's confession was fake, you'd have to accept that he was just going along agreeing with Chuck about everything, but when he got to the point where he had to admit to humiliating Chuck on purpose, he made a snap judgment that that would be too hurtful, and he invented a story about doing it for Kim instead, and immediately sold the hell of it.

 

Of course, Jimmy could explain it away either by admitting that he's such an accomplished liar that he came up with that shit on the fly, or by saying that he actually did feel that resentment for Chuck on Kim's behalf, so it was easy to work it into his false confession. But it doesn't leave you in a great position when your two possible defenses are "I'm a super great liar, but I'm not lying about this!" or "I really did feel deep resentment toward my brother for what happened to my girlfriend, but I totally didn't do the alleged thing that screwed him over and benefited her!"

Edited April 19, 2016 by Dev F

[henripootel]

"Did your brother say he did it or did he just agree with what you said happened?" "He just agreed that what I said was true." "So your brother agreed with a man who was mentally ill and possibly suicidal?" "Well, yes."

That's my problem with this whole tape recorder thing.  Beyond the fact that it'd be way too easy for Jimmy to just say 'I was humoring him', there's the issue of why Chuck would do so much for 'evidence' that'd mean so little.  Even if Chuck uncovers the other clues, they too can be easily explained.  Jimmy bribed the copy guy because Jimmy was there that night, but didn't want Chuck getting all worked up about this 'innocent coincidence' and hurt himself (which actually happened so it's a credible concern).  Even if he finds out that Ernesto lied and never called Jimmy, again this can easily be explained away (Jimmy was following Chuck because he was worried about him, that's why he got in there so fast).  Chuck's basically got nothing but I think we're supposed to believe he's finally got Jimmy by the balls.

 

The Mike but stuff was pretty good and it's always great to see Jim Beaver, but I'm not sure what Mike's plan was.  I take it he was gonna snipe Hector but what then? He would totally give away his position and I'm pretty sure he planned to leg it out of there, but he isn't exactly a spring chicken.  There were at least 4 more guys, and Mike only bought one box of ammo.  Just sayin'.  

 

Please please please let the note be the handwriting of one Gustavo Fring. 

Edited April 19, 2016 by henripootel

[ghoulina]

After Chuck is home again, he actually said to Jimmy, "I'm just being petty." Are we to take that as a genuine chink in Chuck's armor (when he said it I hoped it was the beginning of a new, kinder, gentler Chuck), or was it part of his scheme to get Jimmy's confession?

 

Yea, I think it was just part of his con. I can't see Chuck ever even believing he is capable of being petty, let alone admitting it. 

 

Ok for the theory that Jimmy knew he was being recorded and hence chose his words carefully. Why would he do that? What's his play in saying just enough so that Chuck thinks of it as a confession? He doesn't want it to go away and wants to go to court vs Chuck? That doesn't seem likely

 

Right. If he thought he was being recorded, he wouldn't admit to it at all, no matter the wording. He confesses because he's worried about Chuck's sanity. If he thinks his brother is playing one big trick on him, he's not going to care about his mental state. I do think it's possible that the way he said it might make it easier for him to play it a different way later, but I don't think it was intentional. 

[Bcharmer]

I am a little puzzled that the Rebecca character was given enough weight to name an episode after her.

 

There must be a LOT more to that back story.

 

I guess they just needed an episode title that started with an R for the "FRINGS BACK" secret anagram.

[ByTor]

Even if Chuck uncovers the other clues, they too can be easily explained.  Jimmy bribed the copy guy because Jimmy was there that night, but didn't want Chuck getting all worked up about this 'innocent coincidence' and hurt himself (which actually happened so it's a credible concern).

True. He even told the copy guy that Chuck will probably threaten him with legal talk, but really it's just a family matter.

[Umbelina]

I'm back.  I will have to give them credit for one thing, I don't think I've ever, and I mean EVER reacted as passionately, though negatively to a season finale of a TV show.  Well, maybe when Irina tried to kill Sydney, but that was only one scene, not the entire episode.  At least I've slept on it.

The only satisfaction I take from this is that Chuck must be a tortured soul:  To stew in your own foul juice, knowing that the person you hate the most is the very person who loves you the most.  I hope early on next season Chuck manages to commit suicide.

I think it's obvious by now that the character of Chuck will never leave, and never change.  He's Lucy pulling the football away.  He will always be exactly what he is, he will always do exactly what he's been doing, they will give the fabulous actor more long monologues, and he will continue to say them in the same monotonous drone.  Eventually they'll get to Rebecca, a character I actually found interesting, but in the end?  Same old shit, different day.  Jimmy will harm him, in his mind.  The story of brotherly hate will suck all the life from this show.

 

Chuck will let Jimmy go and not have him disbarred if Jimmy promises to change his name so that Chuck is the only McGill practicing law.

If only!  Nah.  Jimmy already offered him that.  Jimmy flipping burgers or homeless wouldn't even satisfy Chuck at this point.  Honestly, that's the real question for me at this point.  Do I want to watch more of these scenes, because that, I fear, is all we are ever going to get.  No growth, no change, nothing fresh, until Jimmy finally, guilt ridden, calls it a day.  That's what will probably make me watch next year, the CHANCE that Jimmy wises up and dumps the dude.  Or the writers do.  Either one. 

 

Yeah, I think th most valid criticism of the show is that they have played on the Jimmy and Chuck dynamic too long, but as I've said before, I forgive all when good resolutions are provided. In this case, I think the best resolution is for Jimmy to take the gloves off, and give Chuck the no-holds- barred, full bore, treatment that we have seen Jimmy lay on various overconfident blowhards. Chuck is obviously the most formidable mark Jimmy will ever have worked, and I'm not sure what the angle should be, given Chuck's familiarity with Jimmy, but the potential for comedy is pretty large. Waiting 10 months for the punch line is a problem, however.

Comedy!  I remember that!  Those little, but very real moments we used to get now and then, before Chuck took over the show.  I have to say, I adored Jonathan Banks last night on the Talking Saul episode with that ridiculous and sycophantic host cutting him off for daring to say what I completely agree with.  At some point, any sane person, that would be you Jimmy, walks away from someone like Chuck, brother or no.  He seemed to be implying that he's aware they are just on a loop with Chuck here, and that's my problem as well.  Yes, McKean is a good actor.  So what?  Got that, bought the T shirt.  Over it.

 

After Chuck is home again, he actually said to Jimmy, "I'm just being petty." Are we to take that as a genuine chink in Chuck's armor (when he said it I hoped it was the beginning of a new, kinder, gentler Chuck), or was it part of his scheme to get Jimmy's confession?

Obviously, the confession.  Chuck's only purpose in life is ruining, completely destroying Jimmy.

 

That type of recorder generally has a terrible microphone built in, and Chuck made his chances of getting an intelligible recording much worse by burying it so that Jimmy wouldn't see it. Chuck could probably still bluff Jimmy.

 

Were the writers really that desperate to get viewers back next season that they felt they needed to do this style of season finale? I'm sure it works for a lot of people (or they wouldn't do it), but it just pisses me off and makes it less likely I'll be back.

That is such a good point!  I used to have one of tape recorders.  Actually, I think I still do, on a shelf somewhere.  The microphone is terrible, and you need to practically be on top of it, Jimmy was across the room a few times, right?  I hope that the writers did the kind of diligence they USED to do and checked that out, would it record anything at all, covered and at varying distances?  I may find some batteries and check that out at some point.  Nah.  Don't care.  It wouldn't though, from my memory.

 

Agree with your last sentence.  I'm really questioning that myself.  Probably first episode to see if it's just the same old, or if something fresh happens.  After that?  Honestly, I don't know.

 

I am a little puzzled that the Rebecca character was given enough weight to name an episode after her.

 

There must be a LOT more to that back story.

The one character that I thought was interesting, and apparently we'll need to wait a year to know what happened there, or to see her again.  Although we already know what happened, right?  Jimmy HARMED Chuck there.  Of course he did. 

 

The tape will backfire against Chuck. We know that Jimmy can think quick on his feet. Jimmy walked into the room and believed that his brother was going over the edge. When he considered confessing the lawyer Jimmy and the con man Slipping Jimmy both knew everything you say can and will be used against you. They also know that Chuck has an amazing memory, makes a lifestyle out of attention to detail and is very, very devoted to honesty when it comes to the law. When asked, Chuck will give a very detailed description of what and how Jimmy said it. Chuck really can't lie in court, its against his nature. Slipping Jimmy was careful never to say what he did in the entire conversation. He just said, Chuck your right over and over again. Whether or not he suspected Chuck was recording it Slipping Jimmy is too smart to come out and provide any details that Chuck hadn't said first.

 

"Did your brother say he did it or did he just agree with what you said happened?" "He just agreed that what I said was true." "So your brother agreed with a man who was mentally ill and possibly suicidal?" "Well, yes."

 

I think that Jimmy is finally reaching the end of his patience against Chuck. He knows that Chuck almost killed himself in his quest to get Jimmy when he went into the copy shop. I think this is kind of a test for Jimmy. See what Chuck does. Give Chuck enough rope to hang himself. If Chuck decides to go after Jimmy, Jimmy will use the tape as proof that his brother is losing it and is so paranoid of Jimmy that he will do or say anything to get him.  If Chuck testifies in front of the bar exam against Jimmy, Jimmy will make him look like a mentally ill paranoid brother. Which is what Chuck is.Jimmy has a huge pile of evidence against Chuck, but he doesn't want to use it. But he would use it in self defense. Once the evidence is on record, the court will change the hearing from is Jimmy competent to be a lawyer to is Chuck competent to be a lawyer fairly quickly. Chuck will lose his licence to practice law without Jimmy having to actively go after him. Chuck will lose it by his own actions. 

Yeah, I like your thinking, but at this point, I doubt any of it will happen.  Jimmy and Chuck are in an endless loop here, and the writers seem to love that rinse/lather/repeat story.  The critics are backing them up.  I think that's all we'll ever get as long as Chuck's on the show, and I don't see him leaving for a long, long, long time.  He won't change, no progress will be made, just a version of Groundhog Day with the two brothers.  Saul will emerge at some point, he'll have to.  As a poster pointed out earlier, Odenkirk, as wonderful as he is, isn't Benjamin Button.

 

From the Talking Saul episode, it certainly appears that more and more Breaking Bad characters will show up, which is only logical, it's been two years in real time, are we in 2004 yet?  Ha. 

 

My question for myself is, will that be enough?  Will Odenkirk's amazing acting and charisma, and Jonathan Banks' incredible skill be enough to keep me watching?  I love those two actors, and their characters, so probably.  I may just watch and mute every single moment of Chuck from now on.  Why bother?  I've already heard it all before, and it (apparently!) after last night's reaction, ahem, does bad bad things to my blood pressure. 

 

To end on a positive, I do love the way they are showing Mike's learning curve into being, not just crooked, but a real criminal.  I find that very interesting.  It's lovely to see the character make errors along his way to becoming the jaded, competent, scary-good criminal he will become.  He's not there yet, and it just makes that character so much more real, at least someone is actually progressing on this show. 

 

On the actor side of things, I've listened to Banks do DVD commentary, and so I pretty much adore him.  He loves this role so much, and puts so much into it, he considers it such a gift, late in life, to have the chance to do something so nuanced, so rich, and he's grateful for that in a "life" way, to finally get his personal role of a lifetime.  At the same time, watching Banks talk last night about the show, and barely suffer that idiot host without rolling his eyes?  I just loved him more.  I feel like he sees what's going on quite clearly here, but he is still hoping for the best.  He's old school, kind of like Robert Forster (the disappearer, Ed) he's been around a long time, and he knows he has gold in this role, after many one dimensional roles in his life.

 

I think I answered my own question when I started this.  Yes, I will watch.  For Banks and Odenkirk.  I really adore them.  Hopefully, that will be enough.

[Ohwell]

That come-to-Jesus moment of realization when you finally get that it is someone else's issues and has nothing to do with you is amazing! I wish Jimmy would have that moment once and for all, tell Chuck to GET THE FUCK OVER IT, and be done with him once and for all. I can guarantee first hand that living a happy, successful life and not giving a shit what your petty, jealous family member thinks is the best revenge and only makes them more miserable (added bonus!)

 

I could have quoted your whole post because I say "Amen," but this particular passage stuck out for me.  Sadly, one must move on.  I won't go into details about my own sibling rivalry stuff (which goes way beyond the hilarious Smothers Brothers riff about "normal" sibling rivalry--"mom liked you best!) but it was--and still is--an issue that finally, this year, I decided to stop feeling guilty and wanting to "help" (which I now realize that she resents like hell) and get on with my life.  Now, I don't want my sister to be miserable, I want her to be happy, but if she chooses to stew in her own miserable juice after all these years, then there's nothing I can say or do to make her feel better.  I think that the Jimmy/Chuck dynamic hits home for a lot of people, hopefully not to that extent though.

 

Which is why I want Chuck to be gone soon.  I don't want to see him in more than a few episodes next season.  It hurts me personally to watch it.  Just wrap this shit up and bring on Saul. 

[TVFan17]

Well, he pointedly loaded only one bullet, so if he planned to shoot out tires to make his escape, that would be a big fail too.

 

Yeah, I caught that on the caliber of bullet too.

 

From a few recaps that was Nacho body blocking him, so perhaps Nacho is working with Gus?

 

I think that it will likely turn out that Nacho is connected to Gus in some way too -- maybe he is feeding Gus info about the Salamancas on the side.  Maybe he told Gus about Mike, and now Gus and his other men are watching Mike.  Or, Gus could have just been spying on Hector, etc., without Nacho's help, and saw this creepy older gentleman stalking them at the same time, and decided to look into who he is!  Lol. 

 

Gus always had eyes and ears on everyone, it seemed.  He knew what people were going to do before they did it.  He had Mike spying on people in BB.  He had Tyrus spying on people.  Victor was on the lookout.   So I can easily see how, even without Nacho's involvement, Gus would have people filling him in on Mike stalking the Salamancas.

 

I think we will see some of Gus' men that we recognize next year, like Victor and/or Tyrus.  Maybe Nacho knows Victor and not necessarily Gus.  It could all play out a lot of different ways.

 

I remember last year I was pondering a scenario in which Nacho and The Cousins might be connected, or run in the same circles because of the Tuco connection.  Someone here on the forum-- can't recall who -- said that (and I am paraphrasing) they couldn't see a reason why Nacho and The Cousins would be in a scene or storyline together, or interact.  Hmm... Nacho and The Cousins have not been dealing directly with just each other, of course, but it seems to me they have shared a couple of scenes and been involved in the same storyline this year!!!  :-)

 

 

I just listened to him say it again.   Seems to be pretty deliberate wording to me.  Gives Chuck credit for the story.  Tells him "just like you said."  Then "you feel better now, don't you?"  That + MD evaluation should be plenty.

 

Honestly though, I don't really care that much.  I might, if I felt like the writers did, but I honestly don't anymore.  I almost can't believe this is the same team, except for the fact that the only thing interesting on this show is the Breaking Bad stories and characters.  I really thought this would mostly stand on it's own, give us new characters to enjoy on screen, with the occasional glimpse of BB people.  Instead, they are the only life in this show for me.

 

Kim's better than she was, but do I honestly tune in to see Kim?  Not even close.  Chuck?  No.  I grit my teeth through his scenes, because they are always the same same same same same same same damn thing.  I loved it when he cracked his head open because at least it was something new.  I had hope when he left the house the first time, but nope, right back in.  The hospital scenes were well done, but we already saw that too.  Howard?  Oh please, there is no there there.

 

At this point it's just completely a Breaking Bad prequel.  Watch Mike stumble bumble as he learns how to really Break Bad!  Watch Chuck push Jimmy into becoming Saul and Break Bad!  If that's all this is going to be, then for the love of God, move it along and quit boring me senseless with Chuck and Howard scenes.  Because, yeah.  Got it.  The first several hundred times.

 

ETA

I don't know if Jimmy suspected a tape recorder, but he sure used careful words.

During the live chat, I expected Howard or a court reporter taking it all down from behind the tinfoil.  I forgot that Chuck's only "allergic" to electricity and batteries when they want him to be.

 

It is a BB prequel, and I'm not sure if that's what it always was intended to be (with such a heavy emphasis on Mike's part of the story, I mean), or if that is just the way it is evolving as the writers write the story, gauge fan reaction, etc.  Personally, I am fine with it.  I loved BB, and I have absolutely no problems staying connected to that world when the Mike and Mike-adjacent scenes come up.   Last night on Talking Saul, I think it was Gilligan who said that this (show) is a story about Jimmy/Saul and it is a story about Mike Ehrmantraut.  It seems clear to me that, whatever the original intentions were and despite the title, the show is not only about Jimmy. So, because Mike was so integral on BB, his BB connections are forming before our eyes on BCS, and it is all going to be very BB-esque.  Sometimes the Mike and Jimmy stories will intersect or directly impact each other, and other times they will be separate, I guess.

 

Whatever the case, I agree that they need to move it along.  The Chuck-Jimmy stuff has dragged on too long, and I am even okay with Chuck being on the show if he is involved in something else and not just constantly in a conflict with Jimmy.   Same thing with Howard -- is he only there on the show just to be an attorney, and we're never going to see him doing anything that doesn't somehow involve a case or the law in general? 

 

 

I don't know what will happen, but I wouldn't be surprised if Mike becomes involved in retrieving the tape, and it's non-existence becomes further evidence for Chuck's mental illness.

 

Based on the "I'm Picking Jimmy" commercial, it seems as if we're still a long way away from "Better Call Saul"

 

I'm not sure how far in the past the flashback was, but I think Michael McKean is getting too old for a 15 or 20 or 25 year old flashback.

 

Maybe the use of magnets can come in handy for erasing the tape.   Magnets -- the unsung hero of one BB episode -- could play a big role in BCS too!

 

 

 

There is a thread for it...

 

I didn't see it.   Can you link me to it? I was referring to a dedicated thread for the Chris Hardwick show, Talking Saul (not Talking Dead).  I saw no thread for Talking Saul, which made sense as it was only 2 episodes so far.   The thread here that is called "Better Talk Saul" is not about the show Talking Saul -- it is about talking about BCS without any references to or mentions of Breaking Bad.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Sherry67

[ByTor]

Howard -- is he only there on the show just to be an attorney, and we're never going to see him doing anything that doesn't somehow involve a case or the law in general?

IMO yes, that is why Howard is there, and (also IMO) he was never intended to be a major character, hence the lack of focus on him.

[ByTor]

On a shallow note, the polo shirt Jimmy was wearing looked great on him, that blue is a fabulous color for Bob Odenkirk.

[mattie0808]

I mean so mom called out Jimmy's name...so what? 

 

It was not like she was saying "Oh Jimmy I love you so much and my last dying wish is that you dick punch Chuck". 

 

It seemed to me that she was delusional and actually thought she was berating Jimmy for something.  Okay, I guess her last thought was of Jimmy, but it really did not give me favoritism vibes.

 

Okay, that made me bust out laughing.

 

One thing that should be considered more...I think the mother saying Jimmy's name is an expression of love and not berating, but it could very, VERY easily also be an expression of worry and concern for Jimmy. He's the wayward son (I'm not sure what we're supposed to think was going on in his life at that point, but it probably wasn't great, lol), he's the one who NEEDS help from his mother or whoever. That would make him top of mind in the end for a parent, without it being "Oh he's the favorite again and no one cares about you, Chuck, hahahahaha!" And yeah, she may have just heard Jimmy talking and leaving, so it literally meant nothing about who she "loves more," sheesh.

 

But Chuck has no capability of seeing it that way or in any way other than the way that's absolutely worst for himself. Hell, he can't see Jimmy's being thoughtful by offering to get him food, or that Jimmy is trying to connect with him by trying to have a smile over that memory of the party. He doesn't feel badly for Jimmy AT ALL that the mother passed in the short time he was gone, because even in the moments while and just after his mother passes, he's filled with hatred, jealousy, and resentment for his younger brother. I hope he's taken out of commission one way or the other next season (I was pretty much hoping for that this season).

Edited April 19, 2016 by mattie0808

[Umbelina]

IMO yes, that is why Howard is there, and (also IMO) he was never intended to be a major character, hence the lack of focus on him.

He's not a character at all.  He's on nearly every episode, but only to move a plot point along.  Hold a piece of paper and call Jimmy to get Jimmy to Chuck's.   Last night's example.  Pick an episode, you will find more.

 

Ernesto has more depth.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Umbelina

[hincandenza]

To end on a positive, I do love the way they are showing Mike's learning curve into being, not just crooked, but a real criminal. I find that very interesting. It's lovely to see the character make errors along his way to becoming the jaded, competent, scary-good criminal he will become. He's not there yet, and it just makes that character so much more real, at least someone is actually progressing on this show.

I guess with Mike's story in focus and progressing nicely while Jimmy spins his tires for a whole season... maybe they really should have called this show "Breaking Bald". :)

[ghoulina]

One thing that should be considered more...I think the mother saying Jimmy's name is an expression of love and not berating, but it could very, VERY easily also be an expression of worry and concern for Jimmy. He's the wayward son (I'm not sure what we're supposed to think was going on in his life at that point, but it probably wasn't great, lol), he's the one who NEEDS help from his mother or whoever. That would make him top of mind in the end for a parent, without it being "Oh he's the favorite again and no one cares about you, Chuck, hahahahaha!" And yeah, she may have just heard Jimmy talking and leaving, so it literally meant nothing about who she "loves more," sheesh.

But Chuck has no capability of seeing it that way or in any way other than the way that's absolutely worst for himself. Hell, he can't see Jimmy's being thoughtful by offering to get him food, or that Jimmy is trying to connect with him by trying to have a smile over that memory of the party. He doesn't feel badly for Jimmy AT ALL that the mother passed in the short time he was gone, because even in the moments while and just after his mother passes, he's filled with hatred, jealousy, and resentment for his younger brother. I hope he's taken out of commission one way or the other next season (I was pretty much hoping for that this season).

 

This is a very very good point. You might be quite right, in that Chuck is more interested in keeping his status as a victim, than seeing anything else going on. 

[ByTor]

He's not a character at all.  He's on nearly every episode, but only to move a plot point along.  Hold a piece of paper and call Jimmy to get Jimmy to Chuck's.   Last night's example.  Pick an episode, you will find more.

 

Ernesto has more depth.

I am aware you don't like Howard, and I really don't understand your insistence that he should have depth, he should have a backstory, he is a "Ken Doll". Yes, so far he is there to move a plot point along, that is IMO all he is needed for. I'm sure there would be something more if his character mattered more in the grand scheme of things. Edited April 19, 2016 by ByTor

[shapeshifter]

I'm back.  I will have to give them credit for one thing, I don't think I've ever, and I mean EVER reacted as passionately, though negatively to a season finale of a TV show.  Well, maybe when Irina tried to kill Sydney, but that was only one scene, not the entire episode.  At least I've slept on it.

I think it's obvious by now that the character of Chuck will never leave, and never change.  He's Lucy pulling the football away.

This is so true, I want to refer to him as Lucy.

[Bannon]

 ........ it's always great to see Jim Beaver, but I'm not sure what Mike's plan was.  I take it he was gonna snipe Hector but what then? He would totally give away his position and I'm pretty sure he planned to leg it out of there, but he isn't exactly a spring chicken.  There were at least 4 more guys, and Mike only bought one box of ammo.  Just sayin'.  

 

Please please please let the note be the handwriting of one Gustavo Fring. 

 

You know what you call 4 guys with pistols, who decide to give pursuit to a highly trained sniper with a good rifle for the task, a box full of bullets, the high ground, and cover to shoot behind?  Dinner for the buzzards.

 

The idea that Mike was under serious threat from 4 guys with pistols, in that setting, defies credibility.

[TVFan17]

Okay, I am no fan of Chuck and certainly have seen enough of him on BCS to last a lifetime, but anyone who doesn't understand how or why he would be hurt by his mom calling out for Jimmy from her deathbed -- not even really acknowledging Chuck's presence in the room -- and is dismissing it as no big deal, is probably looking for reasons to hate Chuck.  Mom may not have been coherent -- she was dying, after all -- but it would sting.

 

I defy anyone to sit there next to a dying parent -- someone they deeply love and from whom they want love and adoration -- and not be hurt when that parent doesn't even care that you are there, and calls out for your sibling. 

 

I mean, come on.... Chuck is not a likable guy, but let's not fault him for being a human being with feelings.  It's how he chose to manifest those feelings and direct resentment at Jimmy for the subsequent years (whether or not it was warranted) that is the issue.  Although his instincts about Jimmy are usually right, he has been unnecessarily mean and underhanded with Jimmy, and that is where his fault lies.

[Bannon]

Now that I think about it, a really funny scene could be written, involving a guy who has a deathly fear that electrical devices are harming him, being foiled in his devious plans when an electrical  device fails to function is the prescribed manner. Chuck could slam the recorder down on a table in anger, and it could rebound and hit him the head or something, whereupon he as to go to the ER again, where he gets attacked by the imaging machines again. 

[Umbelina]

I am aware you don't like Howard, and I really don't understand your insistence that he should have depth, he should have a backstory, he is a "Ken Doll". Yes, so far he is there to move a plot point along, that is IMO all he is needed for. I'm sure there would be something more if his character mattered more in the grand scheme of things.

Yet he takes up so very much screen time.  Why not at least make him interesting?  Hide his plot driven sole reason for being, just a little tiny bit?

 

Sherry67, my problem with that scene had nothing to do with whether or not Chuck would be hurt, or was entitled to be hurt by it.  Of course he was!  Of course that's understandable!

 

My problem was how ridiculously obvious it was.  Of COURSE Jimmy would leave just when she woke up to speak.  OF COURSE her last words were about Jimmy.  I mean honestly, you could see that coming from the moment it began.  I'm honestly shocked that scene made it on to this show as written or cut or directed, whatever it was.  On a finale no less!  Opening scene!  Just wow at how bad that was, a 9th grade English teacher would return it with a big red "Really?"

Edited April 19, 2016 by Umbelina

[shapeshifter]

Now that I think about it, a really funny scene could be written, involving a guy who has a deathly fear that electrical devices are harming him, being foiled in his devious plans when an electrical  device fails to function is the prescribed manner. Chuck could slam the recorder down on a table in anger, and it could rebound and hit him the head or something, whereupon he as to go to the ER again, where he gets attacked by the imaging machines again.

You may have something there. Since Chuck only clicked it off, we don't know that it successfully recorded.

[Bannon]

 

 

 

Comedy!  I remember that!  Those little, but very real moments we used to get now and then, before Chuck took over the show.  I have to say, I adored Jonathan Banks last night on the Talking Saul episode with that ridiculous and sycophantic host cutting him off for daring to say what I completely agree with.  At some point, any sane person, that would be you Jimmy, walks away from someone like Chuck, brother or no.  He seemed to be implying that he's aware they are just on a loop with Chuck here, and that's my problem as well.  Yes, McKean is a good actor.  So what?  Got that, bought the T shirt.  Over it.

 

 

 

I've enjoyed this season quite a bit, but I do think they skimped on the comedy in the 2nd half, and they need to employ it at the previous rate. I did think Mom's death scene was laugh out loud funny, with McKean doing the slow burn, however, but again, maybe I'm just weird.

[Bryce Lynch]

I am a little puzzled that the Rebecca character was given enough weight to name an episode after her.

There must be a LOT more to that back story.

Maybe she was just the R in FRINGSBACK.

Mine as well. I get that who Jimmy is comes directly from his entwinement with Chuck throughout his life, but at some point you realize you are who you are, and who he is, and you act differently. Jimmy can't seem to do that. I was so sad when he chose to run across the street to the copy shop to help Chuck, when all that happened was Chuck had an episode and got a bump on the head. Let it go.

Also, it was clear what Chuck planned as soon as he looked up and headed to the garage with purpose. The only act left to Chuck was to get a confession, and it had to be recorded. His conversation with Jimmy was well done. At first it would have sounded on the recording like Jimmy was humoring a crazy accusation, but Chuck kept it going until so many details came out that it was clear this was a confession. Jimmy practices law on BB, so he apparently gets out of it, but I suppose we need to enjoy the journey.

I am thinking Chuck might not have enough to get Jimmy charged or disbarred, but might have enough to intimidate him into giving up practicing under the McGill name in exchange for him not trying to press charges. Sort of like a plea bargain.

[Bryce Lynch]

Yet he takes up so very much screen time. Why not at least make him interesting? Hide his plot driven sole reason for being, just a little tiny bit?

Sherry67, my problem with that scene had nothing to do with whether or not Chuck would be hurt, or was entitled to be hurt by it. Of course he was! Of course that's understandable!

My problem was how ridiculously obvious it was. Of COURSE Jimmy would leave just when she woke up to speak. OF COURSE her last words were about Jimmy. I mean honestly, you could see that coming from the moment it began. I'm honestly shocked that scene made it on to this show as written or cut or directed, whatever it was. On a finale no less! Opening scene! Just wow at how bad that was, a 9th grade English teacher would return it with a big red "Really?"

I don't think Howard takes up that much screen time. I think his BB equivalent would be Gomie, and we didn't get a whole lot of intriguing back story on him.

Not every character needs to be great or fascinating.

The opening FB might have been a bit predictable, but it gave insight into Chuck's hatred for Jimmy. Chuck is the "good" guy, who everyone (especially women like Mom, Kim and Rebecca) like less than they like "bad" Jimmy.

The one thing that was a bit unpredictable was Chuck declining to tell Jimmy that their Mother had asked for him with her dying breath. I am not exactly sure how to take that. Was he punishing Jimmy out of jealousy, or trying to protect him from the guilt he would feel from knowing he was out getting a sandwich when his Mom wanted to say goodbye.

I lean toward the latter as if I were in Jimmy's shoes, I would not want to know.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Bryce Lynch

[RCharter]

Ok for the theory that Jimmy knew he was being recorded and hence chose his words carefully. Why would he do that? What's his play in saying just enough so that Chuck thinks of it as a confession? He doesn't want it to go away and wants to go to court vs Chuck? That doesn't seem likely

The thing is, I don't remember him choosing his words all that carefully.  He said he bribed the guy, and he specifically said he changed the address to 1216.  I remember thinking "oh no!  don't Jimmy, don't give him all that detail!"  And when Chuck asked him "do you just realize you confessed to a felony" he said he did.  And he confirmed he didn't just say it to placate Chuck.

Okay, I am no fan of Chuck and certainly have seen enough of him on BCS to last a lifetime, but anyone who doesn't understand how or why he would be hurt by his mom calling out for Jimmy from her deathbed -- not even really acknowledging Chuck's presence in the room -- and is dismissing it as no big deal, is probably looking for reasons to hate Chuck.  Mom may not have been coherent -- she was dying, after all -- but it would sting.

I think it especially stung, because Chuck did EVERYTHING RIGHT.  Including denying himself food so he could be there by her side.  And even when he told her, with hope in voice, that he was Chuck, she was still asking for Jimmy.  Jimmy, who wasn't as dutiful a son and went out for cold cuts.  

 

And for that, to some degree, I blame the parents.  I realize Jimmy was lovable and Chuck maybe wasn't, but I suspect Chuck lived with that sort of favortism his entire life, and it seems wrong to have two children and to so obviously favor one over the other.

I don't think Howard takes up that much screen time. I think his BB equivalent would be Gomie, and we didn't get a whole lot of intriguing back story on him.

Not every character needs to be great or fascinating.

But the thing for me is that Howard has shown flashes of being interesting and fascinating.

 

We see that slick back veneer, but then it peels back and we see something different.  We see that he liked Jimmy, but didn't hire him because of Chuck.  We see that Howard protects Chuck's secret, even though it earns him Jimmy's eternal hatred.  It doesn't fit with the slick shyster, sell your mother down the river image.  He clearly has some sort of feeling for Kim....I'm not sure if its envy, pride, hate.  He forgave her school debt, even though she was leaving the firm.  He expressed how much he wanted to do what she is doing, even though he is senior partner at a large firm.

 

I'll be fine with whatever the writers do, because they are great, but I certainly wouldn't mind more Howard (it doesn't hurt that he is easy on the eyes)

[Ohwell]

Yet he takes up so very much screen time.  Why not at least make him interesting?  Hide his plot driven sole reason for being, just a little tiny bit?

 

I never thought of Howard as taking up that much screen time.  I think what makes him interesting is that he is mysterious.  I don't need to know any more about him,  because I don't find him all that important to the overall plot of the show anyway.  (You do seem to have this fixation on Howard though.  Maybe in the off season you'll have time to get over him.)