S02.E10: Klick

[Umbelina]

Yeah, this. And the weird way he confessed. "It's amazing how you got every detail right! That's just what happened! Now you're felling better, right?" It wasn't a confession so much as agreeing with what Chuck was saying, which could easily be explained by having to placate his unstable, mentally ill brother so that he wouldn't hurt himself. I don't see how the tape can hurt Jimmy, there were a bunch of witnesses to Chuck going off the deep end.

Yes.

 

I'll like it more if Jimmy saw right through the BS from the beginning so did all of that purposely.  Of course, the writers can spin this either way, and with the main reviewers (so far at least) still bowing at their crumbling thrones, who knows what they might do?

[Conan Troutman]

Well, he pointedly loaded only one bullet, so if he planned to shoot out tires to make his escape, that would be a big fail too.

 

Yeah, I caught that on the caliber of bullet too.

 

From a few recaps that was Nacho body blocking him, so perhaps Nacho is working with Gus?

Did he bring another rifle? Because yeah, a sniper rifle isn't really good for that. But maybe that's the point? Mike isn't the uber competent hit men just yet, so Gus or whoever did him a huge favor by stopping him from making a fatal mistake.

 

Nacho could work with Gus or at least feed him information. He clearly aims for more than being a Salamanca goon forever. I guess we'll have to wait and see. It would also be a good explanation for why he was blocking the way so conveniently for the script.

 

Yes.

 

I'll like it more if Jimmy saw right through the BS from the beginning so did all of that purposely.  Of course, the writers can spin this either way, and with the main reviewers (so far at least) still bowing at their crumbling thrones, who knows what they might do?

 

I'm sure they left that intentionally open to figure out the answer during the break. They like to write themselves into a corner and then find a way out of it to challenge themselves. That doesn't always work (see: last season's ending, which they had to track back a little), but I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with this, especially if you have mostly season long arcs.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Conan Troutman

[knaankos]

Yeah but if he saw through the BS why would he say it was the truth. He could have said Chuck was right and then when Chuck pressed him on it he could have said "of course I'm doing it make you feel better" and not added the "big it's the truth part". Unless he for some reason wants to go to court vs Chuck. I can't see the reasoning there.

Jimmy did seem too laid back though. Especially wheh he was like "yeah maybe so but its my word against yours". Off reply to someone who just said you confessed. If jimmy was seriously caught unaware by the possibility of taping he would have stopped in that moment and acted a bit surprised. Instead he had a nonchalant reply ready.

I hope the writers don't expect us to believe that jimmy wouldn't even consider the possibility he was being taped and that he would be floored by such a thing.

[Conan Troutman]

I don't think Jimmy saw through it, either. The scene wasn't played that way. He got so emotional, that's not how you'd behave if you expected a con. Had Jimmy expected it, he never would've confessed in the first place because then the entire reason why he did confess, to make Chuck feel better, would've been moot.

[Umbelina]

I just listened to him say it again.   Seems to be pretty deliberate wording to me.  Gives Chuck credit for the story.  Tells him "just like you said."  Then "you feel better now, don't you?"  That + MD evaluation should be plenty.

 

Honestly though, I don't really care that much.  I might, if I felt like the writers did, but I honestly don't anymore.  I almost can't believe this is the same team, except for the fact that the only thing interesting on this show is the Breaking Bad stories and characters.  I really thought this would mostly stand on it's own, give us new characters to enjoy on screen, with the occasional glimpse of BB people.  Instead, they are the only life in this show for me.

 

Kim's better than she was, but do I honestly tune in to see Kim?  Not even close.  Chuck?  No.  I grit my teeth through his scenes, because they are always the same same same same same same same damn thing.  I loved it when he cracked his head open because at least it was something new.  I had hope when he left the house the first time, but nope, right back in.  The hospital scenes were well done, but we already saw that too.  Howard?  Oh please, there is no there there.

 

At this point it's just completely a Breaking Bad prequel.  Watch Mike stumble bumble as he learns how to really Break Bad!  Watch Chuck push Jimmy into becoming Saul and Break Bad!  If that's all this is going to be, then for the love of God, move it along and quit boring me senseless with Chuck and Howard scenes.  Because, yeah.  Got it.  The first several hundred times.

 

ETA

I don't know if Jimmy suspected a tape recorder, but he sure used careful words.

During the live chat, I expected Howard or a court reporter taking it all down from behind the tinfoil.  I forgot that Chuck's only "allergic" to electricity and batteries when they want him to be.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Umbelina

[Umbelina]

Did he bring another rifle? Because yeah, a sniper rifle isn't really good for that. But maybe that's the point? Mike isn't the uber competent hit men just yet, so Gus or whoever did him a huge favor by stopping him from making a fatal mistake.

 

He had a handgun with him.  At that distance, the rifle would have been a better bet.

[loki567]

Good lord, Umbelina. You're getting about obsessed with hating the show as Chuck is with hating Jimmy. 

[Umbelina]

I know.

 

I'll stop for now.  The Americans will take the stink away, and I'll cheer up.  ;)  I just found this finale infuriating/depressing.  Sticking with this show is feeling like a bad lover, you always justaboutgetthere and then they bore you too much.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Umbelina

[Conan Troutman]

He had a handgun with him.  At that distance, the rifle would have been a better bet.

I noticed the handgun, but I agree, that would have been pretty far. You'd probably want an automatic rifle to make sure you hit at least a couple of tires, maybe I missed it, but I didn't see any other rifle.

 

I get where you're coming from and you aren't alone with your criticism of the plot, especially re: Chuck (disagree about Kim, she's amazing). I still love those scenes just for how beautifully shot, written and acted they are, there are very few shows still on air that even come close to that standard (the Americans for sure, then there's Fargo and Game of Thrones, and that's pretty much it), even though I don't particularly care much about Chuck and would like to leave him in that CT scanner for all eternity. Anyway, I think we'll be finally moving on to the Saul Goodman show next season.

[mrspidey]

Jimmy would never, EVER fall for that con. 

On any other person, I would agree. But this is holier-than-thou Chuck, we're talking about. He has always been so by the book that Jimmy would never even consider him pulling a con. 

 

I'm fare more concerned about the note on Mike's car. if you really want Mike to not kill Hector, that note alone is an extremely unreliable way to prevent that. What saved Hector was Nacho standing in the way. If he hadn't, Hector would be dead and the note wouldn't have accomplished shit. 

So the only way this play makes sense, is that Nacho was in on it and was shielding Hector on purpose. 

 

Nacho is Gus' inside man.

Edited April 19, 2016 by mrspidey

[RCharter]

Wow!  The one and only thing Chuck could do to get Jimmy and he did it!  I think he is an ass, but I admire his dedication to the cause.  

 

I also appreciated that the commercial after Jimmy's was for a "Weasel"

 

And....to all my fellow BCS fans...just wanted to let you know that I enjoyed this episode with a nice tall glass of cucumber-mint water.

 

Jimmy would never fall for that.  Also the early scenes were so completely predictable.  Worst episode yet.

See, I think slippin' Jimmy would never fall for that from anyone OTHER than his highly esteemed and perfect brother.  

[Umbelina]

As some other smart posters pointed out, it's highly likely, from the dialogue, that Jimmy didn't fall for it at all.  So...if that's true, it was clever.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Umbelina

[RCharter]

Now who didn't see that coming?  Apparently, Jimmy didn't.  I couldn't believe he could be so naive and stupid to let Chuck play him like a goddamn fiddle.  Jimmy knows Chuck, or at least he should by now.  He should know that Chuck hates his guts and would do anything to to hurt him.  

 

I am so sick of Chuck and his story and I wanted him to be dead or brain dead.

 

I'll be back next season but only because of Mike and Nacho, Tio, the cousins and the other BB characters I expect to see.  I wouldn't mind seeing the gun guy and Ernesto and Omar again guy too.  But I'm sick of Kim and her goddamn ponytail that I want to hack off, and Howard.  

 

Ugh, I'm mad.  Fucking dumbass Jimmy.

Jimmy will always fuck himself over if it means saving Chuck....always.  Jimmy ran right into that copy shop, even though it wasn't in his best interest.  Jimmy is probably so guilt ridden over Chuck, he feels like he deserves some sort of punishment for it, because he had no idea it would go so far.

 

And Chuck....asshat that he is, won't realize that "getting Jimmy back" means getting dragging Kim into it, dragging Ernesto into it, and some half-wit named Lance.  I know that in Chuck's world they are all enemies because Chuck's world is so black and white and rules driven....but damn.

 

Chuck is one of those guys that will die alone, but he will die knowing that he was "right" about everything.

 

I wonder how much Howard knew?

As some other smart posters pointed out, it's highly likely, from the dialogue, that Jimmy didn't fall for it at all.  So...if that's true, it was clever.

Maybe, although I think he would have left Kim's name out of everything if he was purposefully getting recorded admitting his sins.

 

But, its certainly possible, since he made it a point to say that it was Chuck's word against his.....maybe he knew it wouldn't be Chuck's word against his.

I liked it too. I have never watched BB, but perhaps they really wanted to show WHY Jimmy becomes Saul, perhaps this is part of the transition, that Chuck essentially trys to push Jimmy out of the law or to prosecute him and it makes him become more of the con man because of Chuck. 

So....I just got the meaning of Klick for this episode.  

 

I thought it was supposed to be the "klick" of the gun....adjusting for wind, or whatever klicks are.

 

But it really means the tape recorder "klick"  maybe the one that ends up turning Jimmy to Saul.

Of course Chuck gets the same doctor. This was hours later, likely the same nearby hospital, and she was called in to deal with a patient suffering the same so-called "condition" from before. I don't understand how it's a criticism that the hospital would call in this doctor on the very likely next time he's been seen to since Season 1.

Is she maybe a psychiatrist, or someone trained in psychiatry that they call when they have a patient in Chuck's condition?  I'm certainly no doctor, so those of you with more knowledge can tell me to kick rocks with that idea.

[RCharter]

What bar association, much less Howard, would waste time when there's soooo much evidence that Chuck is losing his faculties, and the only "evidence" against Jimmy is a man apparently trying to comfort his mentally and medically ill brother?  His partner Howard, HHM employees including Ernesto, the doctor who's seen him twice now- pretty much everyone Chuck and Jimmy know all see a guy who has a crippling mental illness.  The story will be simply that Howard called Jimmy, Jimmy rushes to his brother who's acting literally insane, and says anything to keep him calm before heading back to Howard.  To the world Jimmy will seem an almost saintly brother.  Hell, we the audience know the truth and even then, we still don't care and hate Chuck.

 

I feel like Chuck purposefully asked him whether he was being serious or just placating him in order to counter that very situation.  And specifically asked him if he realized he was confessing to a felony.  Evil Genius!  As someone else said, you don't need as high a level of proof for a Bar Association proceeding.  Maybe the Bar suspends his license for a few months and he loses it all and rises from the ashes as Saul Goodman.  Maybe Chuck just plays the tape for Kim, and threatens her.  Maybe he just threatens Jimmy with the release of the tape if he doesn't drop the McGill name.  I have no idea.

 

And maybe thats what I hated/enjoyed about the episode.  Everyone on this board is waiting for Season 3 now, and thats awesome to me!  

 

I think that Jimmy's going to look back and figure that either Chuck is really, really sick and needs help or Chuck is setting him up. I'll bet he'll call the doctor back and say that he's concerned for Chuck and start the paperwork to have him committed. He'll call Howard and tell him that he is doing this reluctantly because of Chuck behavior. He'll talk to everyone about poor Chuck who is turning more and more paranoid. Then Chuck, who has been spending the last week making sure that all of the i's were dotted and t's crossed on the letter to the bar association openly accuses Jimmy. Everyone thinks omg Jimmy's right, he really is losing it. The lawyers use the tape recording at Chuck's commitment hearing against Chuck. 

This would be awesome!  Because Jimmy has always shown himself willing to jump on a grenade for Chuck.  For them both to out and out declare war on the other would be great.

[Conan Troutman]

But, its certainly possible, since he made it a point to say that it was Chuck's word against his.....maybe he knew it wouldn't be Chuck's word against his.

 

Is she maybe a psychiatrist, or someone trained in psychiatry that they call when they have a patient in Chuck's condition?  I'm certainly no doctor, so those of you with more knowledge can tell me to kick rocks with that idea.

 

I think that line was mostly there to inform the audience, no, he didn't know Chuck recorded it or expected Howard lurking behind the tinfoil wall. To get meta: The scene is about the big, probably final betrayal that ultimately destroys their relationship. Jimmy being like "ha, knew it all along, the joke's on you" would offer us very little we didn't already know (Jimmy is smart? Yeah, we know), rendering the scene pointless and also robbing it of its emotional impact. The legal consequences (which can't be too severe anyway, as Saul will be practicing) won't matter all that much, the far more important outcome will be how Jimmy will react to that betrayal.

 

About the doctor: I assume it's really that simple. It's not a psychiatric institute, just a regular hospital. Makes sense to me that there aren't dozens of doctors around who specialize in that field. Even if they have two or three, it's still a TV show, so I'm willing to accept some coincidence. Besides, she "treated" (she wanted to, but of course she couldn't) Chuck before, so it makes sense to call the same doctor.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Conan Troutman

[RCharter]

I think that line was mostly there to inform the audience, no, he didn't know Chuck recorded it or expected Howard lurking behind the tinfoil wall. To get meta: The scene is about the big, probably final betrayal that ultimately destroys their relationship. Jimmy being like "ha, knew it all along, the joke's on you" would offer us very little we didn't already know (Jimmy is smart? Yeah, we know), rendering the scene pointless and also robbing it of its emotional impact.

 

About the doctor: I assume it's really that simple. It's not a psychiatric institute, just a regular hospital. Makes sense to me that there aren't dozens of doctors around who specialize in that field. Even if they have two or three, it's still a TV show, so I'm willing to accept some coincidence. Besides, she "treated" (she wanted to, but of course she couldn't) Chuck before, so it makes sense to call the same doctor.

I completely agree with you about Chuck/Jimmy, but I love the idea that it could potentially go either way.

[shapeshifter]

So....I just got the meaning of Klick for this episode.  

 

I thought it was supposed to be the "klick" of the gun....adjusting for wind, or whatever klicks are.

 

But it really means the tape recorder "klick"  maybe the one that ends up turning Jimmy to Saul.

Almost the meaning...at least, if I get it, it was a word play joke. As Umbelina mentioned above, "klick" with a "k" refers to a measure of distance, whereas "click" with a "c" refers to a sound--like the recorder.

I'm not sure, but I think it was supposed to be a joke at the end that people like me would actually utter out loud "click" when Chuck reached to stop the recording, and then we would realize the bad pun that is the title, "Klick."

I'm not sure if I'm making sense to y'all with this.

There may have also been a mention of "klick" between Mike and the gun seller with reference to the distance of the rifles, but I don't think it was spoken either.

[BeatrixK]

Add me as a proud member of Team Loved It!

 

Can we just stop for a moment and give major, epic kudos to Michael McKean.  This was his Jonathan Banks 'Five-O' episode:  He was flawless, and I will lead the riot with pitchforks and torches if he doesn't at least score an Emmy nod:  He literally acted his face off in the first 15 minutes - and had me just both riveted and shaking my head at his self-delusion.  Never in my life did I think Lenny from Laverne & Shirley should deserve an Emmy for God's sake! 

 

I can completely buy Jimmy falling for Chuck's ruse:  Chuck is his massive blind spot, and it will bite him hard.

 

Waiting 10 months is going to be torture!

 

Anyone else wonder if Howard was 'in' on the con with Chuck?  I just got the idea Howard was in on it - not sure why, but figured Howard is going to do whatever he can to keep HHM in tact - including partnering with Chuck on the whole confession.

[shapeshifter]

Anyone else wonder if Howard was 'in' on the con with Chuck?  I just got the idea Howard was in on it - not sure why, but figured Howard is going to do whatever he can to keep HHM in tact - including partnering with Chuck on the whole confession.

This too could go either way, IMO. When Jimmy calls Howard back (while Kim "gets coffee" --another post later!) Jimmy's end of the convo--which is all we hear--includes something about whether there's (I think--captioning not online yet) "there's any truth to it."

[Conan Troutman]

Almost the meaning...at least, if I get it, it was a word play joke. As Umbelina mentioned above, "klick" with a "k" refers to a measure of distance, whereas "click" with a "c" refers to a sound--like the recorder.

I'm not sure, but I think it was supposed to be a joke at the end that people like me would actually utter out loud "click" when Chuck reached to stop the recording, and then we would realize the bad pun that is the title, "Klick."

I'm not sure if I'm making sense to y'all with this.

There may have also been a mention of "klick" between Mike and the gun seller with reference to the distance of the rifles, but I don't think it was spoken either.

 

I think they just wrote it with a "k" (also the German spelling) so "Fring's back" can happen.

Add me as a proud member of Team Loved It!

 

Can we just stop for a moment and give major, epic kudos to Michael McKean.  This was his Jonathan Banks 'Five-O' episode:  He was flawless, and I will lead the riot with pitchforks and torches if he doesn't at least score an Emmy nod:  He literally acted his face off in the first 15 minutes - and had me just both riveted and shaking my head at his self-delusion.  Never in my life did I think Lenny from Laverne & Shirley should deserve an Emmy for God's sake! 

 

I can completely buy Jimmy falling for Chuck's ruse:  Chuck is his massive blind spot, and it will bite him hard.

 

Waiting 10 months is going to be torture!

 

Anyone else wonder if Howard was 'in' on the con with Chuck?  I just got the idea Howard was in on it - not sure why, but figured Howard is going to do whatever he can to keep HHM in tact - including partnering with Chuck on the whole confession.

Yeah, McKean was fantastic and definitely Emmy worthy. As much as I'd like for the show to move on plot wise from the Chuck-Jimmy story next season, his performance would be missed.

 

I didn't even consider that Howard would not know. Chuck doesn't strike me as the type who would rely on Howard to convince Jimmy to stop if he wasn't in on it, simply because that would take control out of his hands. That's more the con Jimmy likes to play. But maybe that's the point, to show that Chuck would resort to the methods he despises about Jimmy just to screw him over.

[shapeshifter]

Almost the meaning...at least, if I get it, it was a word play joke. As Umbelina mentioned above, "klick" with a "k" refers to a measure of distance, whereas "click" with a "c" refers to a sound--like the recorder.

I'm not sure, but I think it was supposed to be a joke at the end that people like me would actually utter out loud "click" when Chuck reached to stop the recording, and then we would realize the bad pun that is the title, "Klick."

I'm not sure if I'm making sense to y'all with this.

There may have also been a mention of "klick" between Mike and the gun seller with reference to the distance of the rifles, but I don't think it was spoken either.

I think they just wrote it with a "k" (also the German spelling) so "Fring's back" can happen.

Good points! (That I missed)

But maybe that's the point, to show that Chuck would resort to the methods he despises about Jimmy just to screw him over.

And that, in a nutshell (or a tweet?), sums up the whole season arc. Edited April 19, 2016 by shapeshifter

[RCharter]

 

I didn't even consider that Howard would not know. Chuck doesn't strike me as the type who would rely on Howard to convince Jimmy to stop if he wasn't in on it, simply because that would take control out of his hands. That's more the con Jimmy likes to play. But maybe that's the point, to show that Chuck would resort to the methods he despises about Jimmy just to screw him over.

I think the Howard question could go either way.  Does Howard simply agree to this nonsense so that Chuck doesn't quit?  Or does Chuck realize that Howard actually kinda likes Jimmy and doesn't trust him enough to keep the secret?  Or did he not tell Howard so that Howard wouldn't talk him out of it.  Howard has always seemed to want to move past the MV disaster.  Howard didn't even seem all that gung ho about trying to take back the business.  Yes, he made his phone call and got a meeting, but that seemed more out of show than anything else.  And he was certainly willing to let it go after the hearing.  

 

And, as some of you have pointed out.....its possible that Chuck's mental issues can come into play (for Jimmy's motive to say such a thing) and I don't think Howard would want that.

 

So, it could go either way.....evil genius!

[SignGuy77]

Did he bring another rifle? Because yeah, a sniper rifle isn't really good for that. But maybe that's the point? Mike isn't the uber competent hit men just yet, so Gus or whoever did him a huge favor by stopping him from making a fatal mistake.

Nacho could work with Gus or at least feed him information. He clearly aims for more than being a Salamanca goon forever. I guess we'll have to wait and see. It would also be a good explanation for why he was blocking the way so conveniently for the script.

I'm sure they left that intentionally open to figure out the answer during the break. They like to write themselves into a corner and then find a way out of it to challenge themselves. That doesn't always work (see: last season's ending, which they had to track back a little), but I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with this, especially if you have mostly season long arcs.

Re: Season 1 ending - it was written and in the can before the show got renewed for season two. So in case there was no season two, we needed a finale that could stand on its own and let us fill in the blanks.

Of course they wanted a controversial ending that can be debated for months until next season's reveal. This is how the show picks up word of Internet hype. Also, it's pretty easy to interpret Jimmy's answers as him just telling his sick, crazy brother what he needs to hear to keep him from quitting (his job and his life).

[ghoulina]

I liked the episode, but it somehow didn't feel like a season finale. There was a lot of stuff left up in the air, but not necessarily in a strong, impactful way. But maybe that's the beauty of this show - it's not about shocking deaths or huge cliffhangers OR tying everything up with a neat, little bow. It's kind of doing its own thing. I didn't care for last season's finale the first time, but it really grew on me after pondering it and watching again, so I'm betting I'll go through a similar process this time. 

 

I loved the flashback in the opening. It really gave you that final nail in the coffin of Chuck's jealousy of Jimmy. It's not just that other people laugh at HIS jokes and their dad believed HIM - their mother's literal last words were the name of her younger son. Chuck sat bedside, he refused to move, he was sobbing....Jimmy went to get a freaking sandwich, and she's still calling for him! 

 

You can see where Chuck is coming from with this, his frustration is understandable. But at the end of the day, there has to be something about Jimmy that MAKES their mother love him so much. Yes, he's charming, but he does have a good heart. We've seen that. It's not as if Jimmy is some horrible person and everyone just likes him because he cons them into it. 

 

Look at how he is with Chuck. Despite everything, Jimmy is still going to be there for Chuck. He knew it would place him at the scene of the crime, but he still went running to Chuck's side. He refused to commit him. He instantly softens when he realizes Chuck is in trouble - "Hey, buddy". He offers his guilt up on a silver platter, if it will just get Chuck to calm down and feel better. 

 

And all Chuck can think about is proving Jimmy did it. Concussion, stitches, all the electricity fucking with his head - and his first thought is - "You did it!" Look at the lengths he went to in order to get Jimmy to confess. Now, I don't suppose Chuck isn't suffering. It's clearly not a real physical ailment, but I think he fully believes it is. And he is suffering. But turning his house into a Faraday Cage? That was for Jimmy. It's clear, to me, that Chuck absolutely DOES use his illness to manipulate others, and this is the biggest manipulation of them all. For all his revulsion at Jimmy and his cons, Chuck pulled the biggest con of all. 

 

I loved when Ernie lied for Jimmy. It just goes to show how important being kind and respectful to people is. Ernie knew Jimmy was lying, BUT - he also knew all the 10,000 other times Jimmy had been there for Chuck, and that how Chuck was treating him was not fair. "I miss the mailroom". Don't we all, Ernesto?

 

I also loved Jimmy's commercial. "Because moxie is in such short supply these days" - ain't that the truth! I love that he's still servicing the old people. Obviously he doesn't stay confined to that niche, but I just think it's just a perfect fit for him.

 

 

 

I think I was mostly let down by the Mike side of things. All that build up, then.....nothing. Well, not nothing. The note. Which was probably left by a Fring associate. But I do find it interesting that Nacho's initial plan for Mike was to kill Tuco. And he went to great lengths to avoid that - all to find himself out in the desert, trying to kill Tuco's uncle. Of course, he's still not quite there yet. 

 

It's always nice to get a Lawson scene. 

Edited April 19, 2016 by ghoulina

[shapeshifter]

But I do find it interesting that Nacho's initial plan for Mike was to kill Tuco. And he went to great lengths to avoid that - all to find himself out in the desert, trying to kill Tuco.

The Previously TV recap also says he was aiming at Tuco, but I thought he was clearly after Hector, no?

[Bryce Lynch]

They mentioned on Talking Saul, that Mike was trying to shoot Hector from a "Klick" or a kilometer.

It sure didn't seem nearly that far and 1,000 meters is seriously stretching the effective range of 7.62x51.

He sighted the rifle in at either 100 yards or meters. You can tell because his adjustment of 1.5 minutes moved the point of impact about 1.5 inches and a minute of angle equals 1.04 inches at 100 yards. I would think he would need to hold way over the target to score a hit at 1,000 meters.

[Granimal]

Repeat of the above^

Edited April 19, 2016 by Granimal

[ghoulina]

The Previously TV recap also says he was aiming at Tuco, but I thought he was clearly after Hector, no?

 

Yes, sorry! He was aiming at Hector. Is Tuco even out of jail yet? My mistake. I mixed up the names. But I still think it's interesting that if he had just killed Tuco in the beginning he wouldn't be as involved as he is now. 

[Milburn Stone]

Just for the sake of pointlessness, I'll throw in my own 2 cents and say I thought the season finale was terrific. Sure, I caught on pretty early that Chuck was (elaborately!) scamming Jimmy, but that didn't lessen my engagement with the scene. It increased it, as I kept (silently) shouting at the screen, "Nooo, Jimmy, nooo, don't say these things!" 

 

As with a classic film noir, the story of Jimmy this season was the story of how love can be the agent of a person's doom.

[Bannon]

Couple of things more about the sniper job. The rifle is a bolt-action single shot, not at all uncommon, even today, for that work, and it is what the Marines used in Vietnam, which is why Mike was familiar with it. Oswald, who was trained to shoot in the Marines, used an Italian bolt action single shot rifle in the Kennedy assasination, and, yes, he was the lone shooter. A proficient sniper could easily kill one person, and disable the vehicles, within a very short time frame. He may even be able to kill all the people, certainly two, if the targets were not trained infantry soldiers. It isn't easy to pinpoint the location of a sniper from the first shot. The person next to you is dead before you even hear the crack of the rifle, and confusion reigns. It takes hard, hard, really hard, training to react effciently to that crisis, and, no,  drug cartel henchmen typically haven't had it.  The conversation with Jim Beaver was about what kind of load, in that caliber bullet, would be best for the job, not about different caliber bullets. A heavier load is used for harder or larger targets, a lighter load, without full metal jacket, when you want make sure the round doesn't pass through, not expanding in  the intended target, and hit something else. I believe  Beaver said the round was a 180 grain load, relatively light, with a hollow point. Designed to enter one animal (or human) torso or head, expand rapidly, thus ensuring the target is killed. Not good for getting to a target standing behind another person. It is possible that Mike could have asked for a heavier, jacketed round, but he specifically declined when Beaver offered it. Mike wanted a simple outdoor shot, killing one person. 

 

Mike could have done many things. Kill everybody, or nearly everybody. Kill one person, and disable the vehicles. Kill one person, and quietly withdraw. Like I said above, in mountainous terrain, two roads can be close together at certain points, while miles away from points of intersection. Heck, the same road can double back several times and have sections close to each other,  while the sections a large distance part if the road itself is travelled. If Mike had been provided the simple shot he desired, it would have been quite easy to quietly withdraw, without the henchmen even having a really good idea where the shot came from.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Bannon

[nodorothyparker]

I liked the episode quite a bit but I wasn't in love with it.  I also think they could have used another episode to bring the story to a more satisfying resolution, but can see where they've left just enough ambiguity in Jimmy's confession and the circumstances of it that there will be a couple of ways they can spin it heading into season 3.

 

Sure, we could all see the hidden tape recorder coming from a mile off but I never felt like we weren't supposed to see it.  Chuck blew his first bridge with Jimmy out of the water last season with his "chimp machine gun" reveal, but while Jimmy's certainly been angry and disappointed with him I still haven't gotten the sense that Jimmy truly understands that this goes so much deeper than just professional standards and ideals with Chuck.  We know he doesn't know the mother who had to call Chuck to bail out him out jail died apparently still preferring him and calling his name or about the strife he inadvertently caused between Chuck and Rebecca.  We don't even know if Kim ever told him that Chuck believes he was embezzling from their father and was a contributing factor to his decline and death.  He knows Chuck has a low opinion of him, but I don't think up until now he truly or fully got that Chuck is stewing himself alive in personal resentment and animosity toward him to the point that he'll be fine with it if he has to destroy them both as long as in the end he can say he was right.

 

Ernesto and Kim have now both tried to warn him.  Poor Ernesto, just wanting to be done with the whole mess.  There's been no shortage of people to point out the crazy going off the rails.  But Jimmy's default is to defend and take care of Chuck because Chuck put it there and it's hard to override that even at the moment you walk into a room decorated like the inside of a baked potato wrapper.  However it shakes out this is the second bridge, the second switch to flip.

 

I'm curious to see where they go with it.  I don't know if Chuck can really do all that much with the recording without also publicly outing himself as a crazy whackadoo in a space blanket already ruled incompetent to make his own medical decisions.  And while he might not care about that in his personal vendetta against Jimmy, it's hard to imagine that Howard acting for HHM will be equally fine with it.  We went into this series knowing something happened because it's still a fair distance between more or less contentedly doing elder law and sharing a personal and professional space with Kim and doing terrible commercials to be a criminal lawyer in bed with very bad people.  Because of BB, we know Jimmy isn't going to end up in prison or disbarred over this.  But there will be fallout.

[ShadowFacts]

The episode started off on a bad foot for me with the hospital scene.  It felt clunky to me in the same way the flashback to Jimmy and his father and the convenience store did.  Like, hit us over the head with how much Jimmy was preferred by the mother.  Yet I will say Chuck breaking down was very affecting.  It was not my preference that the Chuck-Jimmy drama would escalate into the next season, but that's what we've got and I guess I'll try to keep an open mind about where it might lead.

 

It was pleasant to see how Jimmy is still being nice to the elders and catering to their needs.  I must be a sucker for that.  It shows he is still being earnest and willing to slowly build his practice with small elder cases.   I thought the huge waiting room was going to lose its rainbow on the wall -- I had thought it was something the dentists had and Jimmy and Kim were painting over.  I

 

 

[RustbeltWriter]

I enjoyed the episode and had no problem with the ending. Jimmy is clever, no doubt, but he has a blind spot where Chuck is concerned. He wants his approval so much that he'll overlook the harm Chuck is trying to do. Besides, we don't know what Chuck will actually do with that tape. Will he give it to the Bar association or just to Kim? Maybe he'll just blackmail Jimmy into being a better lawyer and person.

 

My guess for who blew the horn has to be a Fring associate we haven't seen yet. Season three needs to start moving in the direction of Saul. I don't see this show going 7 years. Also, could we get 13 episodes now? 10 is too few.

[teddysmom]

 Jimmy didn't "admit" to anything, because the story of what he did isn't on the tape.

All it is is Jimmy telling Chuck he did it "just like you said" to placate a very ill brother who he loved, and didn't want to see go deeper down that rabbit hole.

Chuck didn't out Jimmy Jimmy. And the fact that Chuck has been proven to be delusional, and that Jimmy had to take out a temporary guardianship of him just to get him medical treatment, will convince a judge that the story was made up.

Edited April 19, 2016 by teddysmom

[ghoulina]

On any other person, I would agree. But this is holier-than-thou Chuck, we're talking about. He has always been so by the book that Jimmy would never even consider him pulling a con.

 

I agree. Also, I think Chuck is Jimmy's weakness. Everyone has one. He has a big soft spot for his brother. Despite how Chuck has betrayed him, when it's clear Chuck is in distress, Jimmy comes running. He can be totally pissed at Chuck, but Jimmy will soften when he realizes how bad off his brother has gotten. I think that's the difference here. They probably both love each other on some level, but love/sympathy is Jimmy's main feeling towards his brother, whereas Chuck focuses on the jealousy and resentment, and love is just an afterthought at this point. 

 

As some other smart posters pointed out, it's highly likely, from the dialogue, that Jimmy didn't fall for it at all.  So...if that's true, it was clever.

 

I think Jimmy fell for it. I think the reason he was so casual about it is because he thinks Chuck is slipping more and more into a state he won't be able to recover from. He's going off the deep end, as far as Jimmy can see, and maybe soon commitment won't be left up to him. I'd wager he thinks at the rate Chuck is going, he'll never be able to convince anyone, because his sanity will be so much in question. 

[Constantinople]

I don't know what will happen, but I wouldn't be surprised if Mike becomes involved in retrieving the tape, and it's non-existence becomes further evidence for Chuck's mental illness.

 

Based on the "I'm Picking Jimmy" commercial, it seems as if we're still a long way away from "Better Call Saul"

 

I'm not sure how far in the past the flashback was, but I think Michael McKean is getting too old for a 15 or 20 or 25 year old flashback.

[Ohwell]

Actually, I'm angrier at Jimmy than at Chuck.  I expected Chuck to be a bastard, but I didn't expect Jimmy to be so dumb and clueless.  

 

I don't care what kind of trouble Jimmy gets into as a result; I'm just worried that Ernesto might get fired because of this. 

[Skyfall]

On Talking Saul (we don't have a thread for it because there were only 2 episodes), Jonathan Banks seems as though he is having a hard time adjusting to Chris Hardwick's personality and energy. He doesn't seem as amused by Chris as some are.

There is a thread for it...

EDIT: Never understand read a title wrong.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Skyfall

[LuciaMia]

Hmmm, now maybe this would only apply to evidence in a criminal case and not something you'd bring before the State Bar. But isn't it illegal to tape someone without their knowledge and inadmissible ?

[Bannon]

They mentioned on Talking Saul, that Mike was trying to shoot Hector from a "Klick" or a kilometer.

It sure didn't seem nearly that far and 1,000 meters is seriously stretching the effective range of 7.62x51.

He sighted the rifle in at either 100 yards or meters. You can tell because his adjustment of 1.5 minutes moved the point of impact about 1.5 inches and a minute of angle equals 1.04 inches at 100 yards. I would think he would need to hold way over the target to score a hit at 1,000 meters.

Hmm, I remember Mike talking about a shot of a few hundred meters, but maybe I misremember it. I agree that a thousand meter shot complicates things greatly.

Hmmm, now maybe this would only apply to evidence in a criminal case and not something you'd bring before the State Bar. But isn't it illegal to tape someone without their knowledge and inadmissible ?

Not in New Mexico, unless it is over the phone.

[Ohwell]

The only satisfaction I take from this is that Chuck must be a tortured soul:  To stew in your own foul juice, knowing that the person you hate the most is the very person who loves you the most.  I hope early on next season Chuck manages to commit suicide.

[shapeshifter]

The conversation with Jim Beaver was about what kind of load, in that caliber bullet, would be best for the job, not about different caliber bullets. A heavier load is used for harder or larger targets, a lighter load, without full metal jacket, when you want make sure the round doesn't pass through, not expanding in  the intended target, and hit something else. I believe  Beaver said the round was a 180 grain load, relatively light, with a hollow point. Designed to enter one animal (or human) torso or head, expand rapidly, thus ensuring the target is killed. Not good for getting to a target standing behind another person. It is possible that Mike could have asked for a heavier, jacketed round, but he specifically declined when Beaver offered it. Mike wanted a simple outdoor shot, killing one person. 

Thanks for this. So not shooting through Nacho was practical and not just merciful.

It was pleasant to see how Jimmy is still being nice to the elders and catering to their needs.  I must be a sucker for that.  It shows he is still being earnest and willing to slowly build his practice with small elder cases.   I thought the huge waiting room was going to lose its rainbow on the wall -- I had thought it was something the dentists had and Jimmy and Kim were painting over.  I

I love the way he treats the elderly too. "Gotta protect the peepers." And I was surprised to see the rainbows still there too and figured they just hadn't had time yet to paint over them--didn't they get interrupted by Chuck during the painting an episode or two ago? But maybe they decided to leave them after all.

Anyone else think that Ernesto calling Jimmy a "friend" was a little bit retconnish?

[ShadowFacts]

 

I think Jimmy fell for it. I think the reason he was so casual about it is because he thinks Chuck is slipping more and more into a state he won't be able to recover from. He's going off the deep end, as far as Jimmy can see, and maybe soon commitment won't be left up to him. I'd wager he thinks at the rate Chuck is going, he'll never be able to convince anyone, because his sanity will be so much in question.

 

I totally agree with this.  I think he thinks Chuck is nearly suicidal.  He knows that Chuck prizes his intellectual superiority more than anything, and he thinks he lost that, and his reputation of perfection.  Hell, I thought he was rummaging through his garage for a gun. (And by the way, though his garage mess was totally relatable to me, it seemed a little out of character for a guy like Chuck who is controlling and perfectionist and has to restart playing a song over and over to have a garage like that, but, nitpick.)  Throw in Jimmy's guilt over initiating the whole document forgery fiasco, and he'll say or do anything to save Chuck from himself. 

[Deanie87]

I liked the episode quite a bit but I wasn't in love with it.  I also think they could have used another episode to bring the story to a more satisfying resolution, but can see where they've left just enough ambiguity in Jimmy's confession and the circumstances of it that there will be a couple of ways they can spin it heading into season 3.

 

Sure, we could all see the hidden tape recorder coming from a mile off but I never felt like we weren't supposed to see it.  Chuck blew his first bridge with Jimmy out of the water last season with his "chimp machine gun" reveal, but while Jimmy's certainly been angry and disappointed with him I still haven't gotten the sense that Jimmy truly understands that this goes so much deeper than just professional standards and ideals with Chuck.  We know he doesn't know the mother who had to call Chuck to bail out him out jail died apparently still preferring him and calling his name or about the strife he inadvertently caused between Chuck and Rebecca.  We don't even know if Kim ever told him that Chuck believes he was embezzling from their father and was a contributing factor to his decline and death.  He knows Chuck has a low opinion of him, but I don't think up until now he truly or fully got that Chuck is stewing himself alive in personal resentment and animosity toward him to the point that he'll be fine with it if he has to destroy them both as long as in the end he can say he was right.

 

Ernesto and Kim have now both tried to warn him.  Poor Ernesto, just wanting to be done with the whole mess.  There's been no shortage of people to point out the crazy going off the rails.  But Jimmy's default is to defend and take care of Chuck because Chuck put it there and it's hard to override that even at the moment you walk into a room decorated like the inside of a baked potato wrapper.  However it shakes out this is the second bridge, the second switch to flip.

 

I'm curious to see where they go with it.  I don't know if Chuck can really do all that much with the recording without also publicly outing himself as a crazy whackadoo in a space blanket already ruled incompetent to make his own medical decisions.  And while he might not care about that in his personal vendetta against Jimmy, it's hard to imagine that Howard acting for HHM will be equally fine with it.  We went into this series knowing something happened because it's still a fair distance between more or less contentedly doing elder law and sharing a personal and professional space with Kim and doing terrible commercials to be a criminal lawyer in bed with very bad people.  Because of BB, we know Jimmy isn't going to end up in prison or disbarred over this.  But there will be fallout.

This is a great point.  Jimmy certainly knows that Chuck doesn't have a high opinion of him, but I am not sure that he understands that Chuck kind of really and truly hates him.  I hope that this will be the final straw and that when Jimmy does begin to understand just how much Chuck is intent on destroying him that the gloves will come off and Chuck will not see it coming.  At the same time, Chuck is Jimmy's Achilles Heel and I'm sure that is compounded by the guilt that Jimmy feels over the injury in the print shop and the repercussions from that at the hospital.  Chuck may milk his illness, but it is real to him and those scenes of him in the MRI were painful to watch.

 

The deathbed scene was revealing, not only because of their mother's calling out for Jimmy, but because of the story that Jimmy told.  In an effort to lighten the mood, he reminisces about the party where he brought two dates.  To Jimmy, its funny and light and he remembers it fondly, while Chuck remembers the fact that, yet again, someone else had to deal with the consequences of Jimmy's behavior and that their mother had to leave her own party to drive one of Jimmy's dates home.  At this point, I don't have much sympathy for Chuck, but honestly, having dealt with people like Jimmy, it is absolutely exhausting and even more frustrating when they clearly can't see the effect that their "shenanigans" have on other people.  Chuck has gone round the bend, but I get it to a certain degree.

 

My favorite part of the episode was Jimmy and the Senior Citizens.  I love the fact that his commercial was so successful, I love the look on Kim's face when JImmy asked her to get coffee and I love the people that the casting directors get to play the old folks.  The woman giving her coffee order was so authentic, I kind of hope that she isn't really an actor but that Gilligan just goes to a retirement home and recruits people.  

 

I wish I cared more about what is going on with Mike, but I just don't. 

[Bannon]

I know.

 

I'll stop for now.  The Americans will take the stink away, and I'll cheer up.  ;)  I just found this finale infuriating/depressing.  Sticking with this show is feeling like a bad lover, you always justaboutgetthere and then they bore you too much.

It's funny how people perceive things differently. If we had a thread to contrast two different shows, I could go on and on about how much more glaring the plot mechanics implausibilities are in "The Americans" and how my biggest issues with the character development in that show is that some of the characters either aren't bright enough, or aren't as big of jerks as they should be, which gets pretty boring. 

 

Where can a thread be set up to contrast two completely unrelated shows?

Edited April 19, 2016 by Bannon

[shapeshifter]

I think Jimmy fell for it. I think the reason he was so casual about it is because he thinks Chuck is slipping more and more into a state he won't be able to recover from. He's going off the deep end, as far as Jimmy can see, and maybe soon commitment won't be left up to him. I'd wager he thinks at the rate Chuck is going, he'll never be able to convince anyone, because his sanity will be so much in question.

Even if Jimmy did fall for it, he can pretend he didn't next season.

The deathbed scene was revealing, not only because of their mother's calling out for Jimmy, but because of the story that Jimmy told.  In an effort to lighten the mood, he reminisces about the party where he brought two dates.  To Jimmy, its funny and light and he remembers it fondly, while Chuck remembers the fact that, yet again, someone else had to deal with the consequences of Jimmy's behavior and that their mother had to leave her own party to drive one of Jimmy's dates home.  At this point, I don't have much sympathy for Chuck, but honestly, having dealt with people like Jimmy, it is absolutely exhausting and even more frustrating when they clearly can't see the effect that their "shenanigans" have on other people.

I like to think his mom and the extra date bonded on the ride home and/or his mother was a little proud/amused that Jimmy had two girls who were interested in him.

[esperanza]

Chuck will let Jimmy go and not have him disbarred if Jimmy promises to change his name so that Chuck is the only McGill practicing law.

[Deanie87]

Even if Jimmy did fall for it, he can pretend he didn't next season.

I like to think his mom and the extra date bonded on the ride home and/or his mother was a little proud/amused that Jimmy had two girls who were interested in him.

 

Of course she would, and how extra frustrating for Chuck!  I"m sure that it was a funny "Oh, that scamp Jimmy..." story that the family told over and over.  The fact that no one is as outraged as Chuck is just the icing on the cake.  

[ghoulina]

I like to think his mom and the extra date bonded on the ride home and/or his mother was a little proud/amused that Jimmy had two girls who were interested in him.

 

Right. I think that's quite likely. Part of the problem with these two is that Chuck THINKS people should respond to Jimmy a certain way, but they don't. Maybe the mother thought Jimmy was funny, even if a bit ridiculous. Maybe she offered to take one of the girls home. Maybe it livened up her party. Maybe if she was conscious she would have had a good laugh, looking back. Just because Chuck thinks Jimmy is a big inconvenience and annoyance, that doesn't mean others see him that way. His parents clearly loved him til the end. Rebecca found him delightful. It's driving Chuck crazy that no one ever sees things his way, but maybe that's because he's focusing too much on Jimmy's flaws, and not seeing what a big heart he has. 

[Bannon]

This is a great point.  Jimmy certainly knows that Chuck doesn't have a high opinion of him, but I am not sure that he understands that Chuck kind of really and truly hates him.  I hope that this will be the final straw and that when Jimmy does begin to understand just how much Chuck is intent on destroying him that the gloves will come off and Chuck will not see it coming.  At the same time, Chuck is Jimmy's Achilles Heel and I'm sure that is compounded by the guilt that Jimmy feels over the injury in the print shop and the repercussions from that at the hospital.  Chuck may milk his illness, but it is real to him and those scenes of him in the MRI were painful to watch.

 

The deathbed scene was revealing, not only because of their mother's calling out for Jimmy, but because of the story that Jimmy told.  In an effort to lighten the mood, he reminisces about the party where he brought two dates.  To Jimmy, its funny and light and he remembers it fondly, while Chuck remembers the fact that, yet again, someone else had to deal with the consequences of Jimmy's behavior and that their mother had to leave her own party to drive one of Jimmy's dates home.  At this point, I don't have much sympathy for Chuck, but honestly, having dealt with people like Jimmy, it is absolutely exhausting and even more frustrating when they clearly can't see the effect that their "shenanigans" have on other people.  Chuck has gone round the bend, but I get it to a certain degree.

 

My favorite part of the episode was Jimmy and the Senior Citizens.  I love the fact that his commercial was so successful, I love the look on Kim's face when JImmy asked her to get coffee and I love the people that the casting directors get to play the old folks.  The woman giving her coffee order was so authentic, I kind of hope that she isn't really an actor but that Gilligan just goes to a retirement home and recruits people.  

 

I wish I cared more about what is going on with Mike, but I just don't. 

Yeah, I think th most valid criticism of the show is that they have played on the Jimmy and Chuck dynamic too long, but as I've said before, I forgive all when good resolutions are provided. In this case, I think the best resolution is for Jimmy to take the gloves off, and give Chuck the no-holds- barred, full bore, treatment that we have seen Jimmy lay on various overconfident blowhards. Chuck is obviously the most formidable mark Jimmy will ever have worked, and I'm not sure what the angle should be, given Chuck's familiarity with Jimmy, but the potential for comedy is pretty large. Waiting 10 months for the punch line is a problem, however.