S06.E01: The Red Woman

[WatchrTina]

Speculation:  I predict Dany will be taken to Vas Dothrak, with the intention that she be deposited in the old Kahleesi  home and THAT is where Drogon will find her.  Dany will mount Drogon and fly around, burn a few enemies, and in doing so demonstrate that SHE is the stallion that mounts the world.  The other widowed Khaleesis will back up her claim and in the end she will return to Mereen at the head of a super Khalisar  made up of the armies of multiple Khals.  It is, after all, the only Dothraki city and the only place where one would encounter multiple Khalisars.  Waddayathink?

Edited April 25, 2016 by WatchrTina

[benteen]

I cringed when Tyrion said that Dany won't be going back to Westeros anytime soon when her ships was destroyed.  The last thing I want is an entire season of Dany dancing with Dothraki.

Edited April 25, 2016 by benteen

[Hecate7]

1. Dorne

 

Wow, they managed to make it worse.  That takes talent.  Prior to this season the writers were claiming that they hadn’t changed one word in response to the controversies around Season 5, which seemed to be mainly about the Winterfell arc at the time, but maybe they really meant that after the audience (even those who enthusiastically praise the show) tended to dislike Dorne, and Ellaria and the Sand Snakes in particular, they were going to double down on Ellaria and the Sand Snakes and kill the only actor in the whole storyline who was any good.  What a waste of what initially looked like a dream casting in Alexander Siddig.  And the ladies of Dorne have certainly not gotten any less cartoonish between seasons, even the usually reliable Indira Varma (the contrast between Ellaria in Season 4 and in Seasons 5-6 is so vast it doesn’t even feel like the same character).

 

And while most people saw this coming last year, let’s keep in mind:  Myrcella died when the boat was like fifty yards from the dock, if that.  And in response to this, instead of stopping to arrest the people who murdered her, Jaime and Trystane sailed on to King’s Landing, a journey of weeks, and then sent a letter to Doran.  In a rational world, this would merely have allowed Ellaria and the Snakes to escape.  In the bonkers world of this show, they somehow managed to mount a coup against Dorne’s thousand-year-old ruling dynasty.  Further, in a season where I expect we’re going to see the Starks struggle to rally Northern support against the oathbreaking, guest right-violating, nobleman-flaying Boltons, I have no doubt that Ellaria will have no problem getting all of Dorne behind her despite being a bastard nobody and having rendered House Martell extinct.

 

And the most annoying thing of all, the rest of this episode was solid.

 

2. The North

 

Nice enough fight scene, great scenery.  As expected, we’re just going to be asked to forget about all those horsemen who were around Winterfell when Sansa and Theon jumped, seeing as it should have been utterly impossible for them to get anywhere.  That aside, let’s hope this season has better things for the characters, and Brienne's joy at finally finding a Stark to serve was palpable (I could have done without Sansa needing an assist with the middle of the oath -- it's wholly understandable that she's frazzled, in isolation, but this character has gotten so little respect in the show for her usually-ignored mastery of courtly etiquette that it's irritating to see her struggle at a rare moment where it's actually allowed to be useful).

 

3. Castle Black

 

Okay, so we’re going to be playing Jon’s return more slowly, then.  At this pace, episode 2 seems unlikely – could this stretch all the way to episode 4, which is usually constructed as a mini-climax for the first leg of the season?  Davos was the man, as usual.  Also, I bet some people regret all that fantasizing about Melisandre.

 

4. Meereen

 

Ramsay must have loaned out his twenty good men to the Sons of the Harpy (which would also explain why they didn’t recapture Sansa and Theon immediately for him).  Jokes aside, that’s a fine enough opener, and, if I’m not mistaken, the writers are now creating an opening for the Greyjoys to enter this plot.  I think this must be the least screentime Peter Dinklage has ever gotten in a season premiere, though.

 

5. Dothraki Sea

 

I generally like how this story is shaping up so far, to be more about Dany as a person than it feels like her last few years’ worth have been (too much focus on the queenly façade, I think).

 

6. Braavos

 

It was there.

 

7. King’s Landing

 

Hey, Marge, long time, no see!  Why is your brother not demanding a trial by combat to settle all this, again?

 

 

After being starved and tortured he may not be in very good fighting form.

[Cherpumple]

I know they made a point of showing Dany couldn't be hurt by fire or heat even before the dragons were born and that this is because she is the blood of the dragon (or however it was worded).

Not all Targaryens are immune to fire/extreme heat. Look at what happened to Viserys. And I think one of their ancestors died while trying to drink wildfyre. So maybe Jon's fire immunity is weaker than Dany's, which is why he was able to be burned before, but now he'd survive, due to the magical oomph of having dragons in the world, and any other added magic that may assist with the process. 

[Eyes High]

The funny thing about the Dorne developments is that there seems to have been a fairly widely held assumption in online discussion circles that Ellaria would be executed for Myrcella's murder. It doesn't seem to have occurred to anyone--including myself, I admit--that Ellaria would refuse to go quietly.

 

I have no doubt that Ellaria will have no problem getting all of Dorne behind her despite being a bastard nobody and having rendered House Martell extinct.

I remember that line from last season about the Sand Snakes having the love of their people. I didn't interpret that at the time to mean that they were more popular than Doran and his son, to the point that the guards would condone Doran's murder, but I suppose that's where the writers have been going with this for a while.

 

After being starved and tortured he may not be in very good fighting form.

It'd be Jaime vs. Brienne all over again.

 

Emilia Clarke seems to act better when speaking Dothraki and Valyrian than when speaking English. It's like the reverse of Sibel Kekilli (can't act in English, great actress in her native language).

Edited April 25, 2016 by Eyes High

[SeanC]

The funny thing about the Dorne developments is that there seems to have been a fairly widely held assumption in online discussion circles that Ellaria would be executed for Myrcella's murder. It didn't seem to have occurred to anyone--including myself, I admit--that Ellaria would refuse to go quietly.

The notion of Ellaria overthrowing the entire government of Dorne is so stupid that it rightly didn't occur to most people.

[WearyTraveler]

Hmmm...I'd have to go back and recheck on the episodes. I know they made a point of showing Dany couldn't be hurt by fire or heat even before the dragons were born and that this is because she is the blood of the dragon (or however it was worded).

 

Someone made a comment about the word fuck being too modern and wrecking scenes but that word has been used consistently throughout the history of the show, along with the words cunt, tits, ass, pussy, shit and cum and probably a bunch more that I'm sure Tyrion could fill in.

 

But Dany is Targ+Targ, while Jon would be Targ+Stark.  If magic is coming back to the world again, as several characters keep saying in the books, and I believe in the show, as well, Jon's Targ side could be getting stronger.

 

I was the one who mentioned the language. I didn't mean to imply the show had never done it before, only that in this particular episode, the dialogue took me out of the story, as it has done in the past (which I didn't mention).  It's even more jarring when they give this sort of dialogue to characters that don't speak like that in the books, like Jaimie.  Book Tyrion does use crass language in his internal monologue, though not very much with others, particularly the highborn.

Edited April 25, 2016 by WearyTraveler

[ParadoxLost]

Not all Targaryens are immune to fire/extreme heat. Look at what happened to Viserys. And I think one of their ancestors died while trying to drink wildfyre. So maybe Jon's fire immunity is weaker than Dany's, which is why he was able to be burned before, but now he'd survive, due to the magical oomph of having dragons in the world, and any other added magic that may assist with the process. 

 

I'm wondering if they burn him with his Sword and Jon + Longclaw (Valerian Steel) + Fire is the magic ingredients needed.  That would not only resurrect Jon but put Lightbringer into play.

[Eyes High]

The notion of Ellaria overthrowing the entire government of Dorne is so stupid that it rightly didn't occur to most people.

 

The point is that Ellaria wouldn't have done something so easily traced back to her by Doran unless she had a plan, which she clearly did. The assumption that she would do something so brazen and so obviously flouting Doran's authority and then meekly submit to Doran's punishment like a good little girl was clearly wrongheaded (and sexist as well).

Edited April 25, 2016 by Eyes High

[Knuckles]

How I love Roose Bolton's voice...such smooth sexy menace. But I do think Ramsay is not going to be displaced by any baby of Walda's. Nor do I think Roose's threat to Ramsay was a good move. Your boy has moved beyond your control now Roose...the army fights with him as commander. Love to see the Boltons take each other apart.

 

And Theon/Reek is now on a redemption arc, I assume. The other Northern lords know he invaded Winterfell and betrayed the Starks, and he's got to be on their list.

Sansa may speak for him, though, and keep him alive. Can't see the Greyjoys taking him back after the Moat Cailin betrayal. Though Alliser might welcome him to the NW, since he betrayed the Starks...however Alliser might not be around that much longer if Tormund arrives any time soon.

[SeanC]

 Can't see the Greyjoys taking him back after the Moat Cailin betrayal.

None of them know about that.  Not that the Greyjoys have any particular reason to welcome him, regardless.

[that one guy]

But my eyes rolled when Ser Jorah found that ring in a sea of grass. Really? Guess greyscale gives you mad tracking skills.

 

I spent the off season preparing to roll my eyes at this, but the way it was portrayed made a lot of sense. You could clearly see where the Khalisar had circled Dany in the season finale - there was a green patch surrounded by a big circle of trampled mud. Jorah dismounted to see if he could figure out what they had been circling, and found the ring. I had also wondered how it was possible that a ring would be easier to find than a giant dragon-burned pile of bones, but they found that first as well. So while I expected it to be stupid, it wasn't stupid.

 

I teared up during the scene where Brienne swears allegiance to Sansa. I don't know why, but it was very affecting.

 

Since I never liked Dorne anyway I'm perfectly happy to watch everyone there die. This year, however, I'm distracted by the fact that the actress who plays Nymeria Sand was a fighter pilot in The Force Awakens. I couldn't help but wish a previously unknown Martell cousin ends up ruling Dorne, and is played by Oscar Isaac.

 

I don't think the Night's Watch guys are plotting to resurrect Jon at this point. I don't think they know that's a possibility. I think their plan begins and ends with separating Thorne's head from his body.

[Dev F]

The point is that Ellaria wouldn't have done something so easily traced back to her by Doran unless she had a plan, which she clearly did. The assumption that she would do something so brazen and so obviously flouting Doran's authority and then meekly submit to Doran's punishment like a good little girl was clearly wrongheaded (and sexist as well).

 

So if she were a man, people would be more likely to assume that she had a secret plan that made no sense, defied all the nuances of lordly succession that form the backbone of the entire series, and involved the teleportation of two characters by writer fiat? I tend to doubt it.

[Hecate7]

4. Daenerys

I just don't see sending her to a retirement home for widowed Khal's wives being something that could take place. It seems thatis a departure from what we know about Dothraki culture.

 

 

Actually, the Dosh Khaleen is from the books. It's not at all a departure from Dothraki culture, it is what they do with the widows of Khals. I don't remember harems, but it stands to reason that the Dothraki Khals would have them. If enough Dothraki had remained with Danaerys after Drogo's death, she probably would have been forced into joining the Dosh Khaleen in the first place, and never gone to Quarth, Astapor, or Mereen at all. Her remaining group, however, were those who had witnessed her miracle and believed in her, or Lamb people that she said were freed, and so nobody tried to make her go there. I believe it was suggested briefly and she refused.

[Cherpumple]

How I love Roose Bolton's voice...such smooth sexy menace.

Oh my god, I know! I would pay good money to hear him read a guided mediation exercise. My muscles would turn to jelly, no matter how stressed I was to begin with.

 

The notion of Ellaria overthrowing the entire government of Dorne is so stupid that it rightly didn't occur to most people.

The Dorne plot is such an underdeveloped mess that I don't think we even know what the "entire government of Dorne" looks like. Aside from the main royal family and a few anonymous guards, have we even met any other Dornish people- nobles, priests, merchants, peasants, etc? Not that I want more time devoted to this, but I honestly don't have any handle on Dornish culture or politics, so all of Ellaria's mustache twirling seems to be done in a vacuum. Is she popular? Was Doran really hated by his people? Who the hell knows.

[Hecate7]

Someone made a comment about the word fuck being too modern and wrecking scenes but that word has been used consistently throughout the history of the show, along with the words cunt, tits, ass, pussy, shit and cum and probably a bunch more that I'm sure Tyrion could fill in.

 

 

All of those are older than Chaucer. They are good old Anglo Saxon words. Ancient. They were spelled a bit differently sometimes, for example "fuck" was often spelled "fokke," and meant to strike, hit, or knock, as well as to copulate, but they have been a part of the English language for as long as it has existed.

[glowbug]

I thought this was overall a good episode. While I think GRRM did it better with regard to the Wall and Winterfell, I also like what the show is doing, despite Thorne's idiotic plan to assassinate Jon after letting the Wildlings—Jon's allies—south of the Wall. Davos is one of my favorite characters and I like the idea of him and Jon teaming up. The Theon/Sansa stuff was also very well done. They're giving him a decent redemption arc after delaying it through season five. I loved Brienne saving Sansa and pledging her sword to her. Dany was also more likable to me than she has been in a few seasons.

 

On the down side, Dorne is a total failure. I was spoiled by the leaks that came out yesterday and it was actually worse than I expected. Ellaria and the sand snakes are so unlikable, and it was such a bad move killing off the one character in the region, Doran, who had any potential. I hate that they made him a weak character instead of a calculating one. There is truly no hope for Dorne after this. Not that I expected them to be able to turn it around, but they could have at least maintained their same level of awfulness instead of making things worse.

 

I also hate everything to do with Jamie and his relationship with Cersei. It appears they're going to paint that pairing as true love instead of toxic as it should be. I don't know that Jamie will ever get a decent redemption arc in the show.

 

I really did enjoy the episode despite Dorne and Jamie. I think the Tyrion/Varys stuff could have waited until episode two, and Arya was sort of a nonentity but neither of those things bothered me all that much. I can't wait for next week's episode.

[VCRTracking]

Out of all the ways the show could have done an homage to The Shining, that was not what I was hoping for!

 

BRIENNE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Those Dorne bitches.

 

Hoping Arya is going to be the Daredevil by season's end.

 

Thank god Dany's not going to be raped.

 

Fuck Olly.

Edited April 25, 2016 by VCRTracking

[J----av]

 Its was OK. Brienne continues to be completely ridiculous (who is she going to randomly stumble into next?), Davos seeming to care more about Jons death then Shireens was strange and Dorne is still terrible The rest was OK though. Like the books its becoming far too crowded with too many characters, plots and locations so it seems we are not getting enough time with anyone

[J----av]

But why Melisandre would give up on whatever she was giving up if it was not directly linked to resurrecting Jon one way or another? It can still be among flames, I guess.

 

 Am i missing something? I thought she was just taking her glamour off before she goes to bed

[Eyes High]

Thank god Dany's not going to be raped.

 

The whole thing played out like Homer Simpson and the cursed doll.

 

Khal: You're beautiful.

Dany: That's good.

Khal: So beautiful I'm going to strip you naked.

Dany: That's bad.

Khal: I recognize your status as khaleesi and decree that you shall be unharmed.

Dany: That's good.

Khal: The reason I make that decree is that you're some dead guy's property.

Dany: That's bad.

Khal: We're going to treat you in a matter befitting the widow of a khal!

Dany: That's good.

Khal: You're off to the Dosh Khaleen to live out your days with the other khals' widows.

Dany: ...

Khal: That's bad.

[J----av]

Hmmm...I'd have to go back and recheck on the episodes. I know they made a point of showing Dany couldn't be hurt by fire or heat even before the dragons were born and that this is because she is the blood of the dragon (or however it was worded).

 

Someone made a comment about the word fuck being too modern and wrecking scenes but that word has been used consistently throughout the history of the show, along with the words cunt, tits, ass, pussy, shit and cum and probably a bunch more that I'm sure Tyrion could fill in.

GRRM says Dany is not immune to fire and that the birth of Dany's dragons was unique, magical, wondrous, a miracle that she probably couldn't do again 

[Oscirus]

The notion of Ellaria overthrowing the entire government of Dorne is so stupid that it rightly didn't occur to most people.

 

I can deal with being surprised but that execution. Let's be honest Doran being a weak leader should lead to something like what happened, but her plan was just so sloppy/ ridiculous, that it failed to make her the formidable opponent that they were hoping to make her.

[Tim Thomason]

I'm not sure that we're supposed to see Ellaria as some noble Brutus restoring her principality to greatness by killing off Doran. I think she's more of a John Wilkes Booth who managed to get the guards in on her multi-assassination conspiracy. Maybe we won't get anymore Dorne scenes and the next mention is a peace offering from some random lord or lady and Ellaria (if she survives) will be on the run.

 

I kind of think Khal Moro shouldn't be so trusting. We know people as far away as Pentos have heard of the legend of the Khaleesi, so I'm thinking some of this Dothraki may have heard of it too. So, it's not a stretch to run into a pretender or two claiming to be her. He should probably have confirmed that (there might be some stragglers from Drogo's Khalasar around) before immediately granting her ultimate protection and an escort to the old widows' home.

 

For a season premiere, nothing really big happened. Except for the Dornish "coup", everyone ends up where they started out. You could probably skip this episode on rewatch, since Jon's still dead, Melisandre is moping around, Sansa and Theon are on the run (logically joined by Brienne at some point), and Arya is still blind as a cat. 

[Maximum Taco]

Gotta say, I'm a little glad Doran's dead.

 

Alexander Siddig, as awesome as he is, was not portraying the kick ass Book Doran Martell that I loved. That's not to say that's his fault, he was working with the worst material, but suffice it to say Show Doran sucked.

 

Book Doran had like 8 irons in the fire, and several decoy irons so nobody knew what the fuck he was doing. He saw Sand Snake trouble coming from light-years away, so he locks them up in a tower, so they can't mess with his shit. Then when he finally figures out how they can be useful, he gives them all awesome tasks to do so they can further his awesome plans instead of messing with his shit, like he knew they would do if left to their own shitty devices.

 

Show Doran was a terribly ineffective ruler whose only goal was to preserve the status quo, and frankly couldn't see the most obvious coup in the world coming. When someone tells this Doran they want to sow discord and start wars all he does is say "Ok, don't. I'm not gonna follow up on this by the way. I'm just gonna trust that me telling you sternly not to do it is enough."

 

If this is the Doran they're going to give me, I'm glad he's dead. Good riddance.

 

George, for the love of god, write faster so I can have a better story, and forget this bullshit.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Maximum Taco

[WearyTraveler]

All of those are older than Chaucer. They are good old Anglo Saxon words. Ancient. They were spelled a bit differently sometimes, for example "fuck" was often spelled "fokke," and meant to strike, hit, or knock, as well as to copulate, but they have been a part of the English language for as long as it has existed.

 

I should further clarify that I didn't claim the word fuck was too modern, I claimed the dialogue, for some characters, was too modern. What I meant was the whole sentence construction, not just the one word.  For example, Sand Snake number 2 telling Sand Snake number one "You're a really greedy bitch, you know that?".  Or the entire conversation between the two Dothraki taking Dany to their Khal; that played more like a couple of misogynistic contemporary guys who've had too much to drink than two Dothraki warriors from the book.

 

Also, I said that when a character that doesn't use foul language in the books does so on the show, it takes me out of the story.  Jaimie is a good example of this.  I don't think even his own inner monologue has foul language.  Not until Tyrion tells him about Cersei sleeping with everybody, and even then, it's mostly just him recalling Tyrion's words.

Edited April 25, 2016 by WearyTraveler

[loki567]

It's surprising but it's gotten to the point where the North-storyline is really holding the show up. That's a significant difference from the early seasons where every time they went to the Wall or Winterfell, I groaned. But the Sansa/Theon rescue was suitably suspenseful, Brienne's oath was touching, the standoff over Jon's body was tense, and Melisandre's reveal was actually one of the few times in the show's history where I would argue that the nudity was absolutely necessary to tell something about the character.

 

It's been speculated before on the Television vs. Book thread, I wonder if Jaime's redemption will end up being a fail. D&D don't do subtle all that well. They tend to write the characters they like as good and the characters they don't like as bad. They always seem down on Jaime (cousin murder, rape of Cersei). So now we have this situation where he's pledging himself to Cersei again and probably follow her down whatever path she leads. I wonder if GRRM did tell them that Jaime will ultimately give up on his redemption and do something unforgivable, which explains the distaste that D&D seem to have for the character. 

Edited April 25, 2016 by loki567

[Rhondinella]

Ok, good.  I came here strictly to see if I had missed something with the whole Trystane thing, and I'm glad to see it isn't just me who was like, "Uh, . . .what?"  I thought he was on the boat with Jaime and Myrcella as well.  And I was kinda looking forward this season to seeing that whole thing play out, whether they would hold him hostage now, or do something to him in retaliation.  Or just seeing how Cersei would react to having him in the mix.  But instead he's just . . . hanging around . . . somewhere?  And gets killed by his own countrywomen?  

 

I even went back to the scene from last season when Myrcella and co were setting sail and although the editing doesn't actually show Trystane getting into or being on the boat, from the way the actor is positioned in the scene it certainly makes it seem like he is about to get on the boat with them. And then in the scene between Jaime and Myrcella on the boat Jaime says "I'm glad Trystane is coming with us" and she says something like, "Do you think mother will like him?"  So it sure sounded like we were supposed to understand that he was coming immediately with them.  Maybe he was sailing in his own boat or fleet of ships or something, as befits a prince?  But even so, that doesn't explain the timeline problem.

 

Yeah, they're gonna have 'splainin' to do on that one.  

 

I'm also not sold on how Ellia and her Sand Snake daughter smuggled their weapons past the guards right into the King's presence, unless the guards were just totally not DOING THEIR JOBS.   I mean, I guess three of them had been bought off as they just stood there and watched the assassination, but the big dude with the axe--I'd think he'd be the most suspicious and want to frisk people before they got too close.  But I guess not.  Anyway, that's a fairly minor nitpick compared to the Trystane thing.

[Ambrosefolly]

Or Maximum Taco, they could have incorporated more of book!Doran into this seasons Doran. Seems like a waste of very good casting. 

[Happy Harpy]

Ollie, little shit, DIE, DIE, DIE.

I want him dead more than the Boltons and Melisandre (I'll never forget Shireen, nope). I hope that Ghost gets to eat him alive, after he pisses his pants seeing Jon rising from the dead, which I don't doubt for one second will happen.

 

Davos, my bae, LIVE, LIVE, LIVE.

He's is now part of my deal breakers (the others being Jon and Arya). Because he's the smartest, bravest, most loyal, most decent, most everything character in this crapsack world. I want him to end at the endgame council if there's one, next to Varys and Tyrion, and as Hand of the King.

 

Go Team Jon! Edd and the Wildlings to the rescue!

Alliser Thorne is a great villain. I never know if he does have beliefs or just believes in what serves his interests.

Melisandre? Meh, actually. The scene was too long for me, I might have been more shocked if it had lasted only a few seconds. I'm curious to see if she'll be able to make herself useful other than by burning people; otherwise I just want her predictions about meeting Arya again and Jon fighting at Winterfell be true. And then she can die.

 

I can't believe that I love Theon now. He might have lost his junk but he found his balls back. And can Alfie Allen get an Emmy already? The cast is stellar but he impresses me so much, every time. Theon's affection for Sansa was tangible and their hug was such a bittersweet moment.

I'm so glad they didn't drag Sansa's rescue and YAY for my Brienne. I was so happy for her she got another win, after slaying one of Shireen's murderers. She was so happy and her tears got to me. I love how she fights, brutal and dirty. Also, I liked the detail that Pod wasn't suddenly a great fighter and still fumbled.

I think that giving some human feelings to Ramsay (I have yet to see Roose express anything else than superficial) makes him more terrifying than if he had none. It makes him more twisted and fascinating in a repulsive way than a mustache-twirling and quite boring Littlefinger for example. At least for me. Fat Walda's days are numbered, unless Roose gets rid of Ramsay in a Dorne-like twist.

 

I loved Dany in this episode. I loved that she bid her time and used her brain, I liked the reference to S3 with her use of language. She never lost her poise in spite of a dire situation. And I don't want her to spend the whole season with the Dothraki, but I liked those scenes more than I thought. Probably because I expected gratuitous female humiliation and sexual abuse galore and there wasn't (beyond sexist talk). The Khal sounds OK and I did like the humorous touches with his men contradicting him.

Funnily, Daario whom I have no use for worked well with Jorah for me, I chuckled once or twice.

I guess there is a point to Dany's float going down in flames? I was happy to see Tyrion after all this time, and he and Varys work well as always, but yeah it was mainly exposition. Bright side: I like it better than sexposition. Also, for the first time, I truly wonder who is at the head of the Sons of the Harpy...since it was mentioned, it must be a player we know?

 

I have to commend L.Heady because of the layers she gives to Cersei. I expected Cersei to blame Jaime for Myrcella's death, I'm surprised she didn't and it actually made sense. But I'm another of those who want Jaime to be over her and out of the toxic relationship like yesterday. Oh, and Dirty Old Grandpa and his nutcases have to be brought down at about the same time. I realized that Margaery lasted way longer than I thought. If someone at KL makes it to the end, I actually think it could be her.

 

Yeah, what a waste of A.Siddig. I kept hoping that Dorne was going somewhere but obviously, the Fire and Blood trip was cancelled. It sets up a KL/Dorne war, though, maybe the last straw that will bring the Lannister rule down.

Aside from Doran and Areoh's pitiful deaths, I'm glad for the move. At least they gave some material to Indira Varma. Aegon is my least favorite plot of the books and imo any possibility of having an iteration of it on the show dies with Trystane. Cherry on top, they sent the two Sand Snakes I dislike the most to KL (I do find the youngest entertaining) so probably they're dead meat soon.

 

My baby Arya still fights, even at her lowest. At least I got to see her. But if she has to stay in Braavos training for now, I still hope she'll develop her warg abilities. I think that Bran will be the only Stark to have them on the show, but you never know.

 

Also, no rape. Can we keep it this way, this season?

Edited April 25, 2016 by Happy Harpy

[Hecate7]

I kept expecting Bronn to show up and kill the Sand Snakes.  I guess he decided to get out of town once Cersei saw her daughter's body.

Dorne:

Either that or he's still on the ship, already dead from that one stupid little Sandsnake's kiss. Their goodbye dialogue was so inexcusably bad I had assumed she was slipping an antidote into his hand, but I guess it was just bad for no reason. I had hoped that maybe Bronn would rescue Myrcella, but it's not the kind of thing that happens on this show really. Given that Tyene wiped her lips as she watched the ship leave, I won't be surprised if Bronn is no more. One more reason to hate Dorne and the Sandsnakes.

 

What a criminal waste of Alexander Siddig. Indira Varma better have some really great material in store, to justify our being stuck with her, probably as chief advisor to Obara, Oberyn's eldest, who is probably next in line. I don't think they've given Oberyn any legitimate children on the show. I think Trystane, Nym, and Obara were still on the ship, and I don't know how the girls got there. Swam? It would have made sense to drop Trystane back in Dorne, but then why would he have been painting eye stones for Myrcella, if she were an ocean away? I think the answer is that they are all either on a ship together, or in King's Landing together. That way they are in reach of the wrath of Cersei. This gives Ellaria the war she wants, while polishing off every heir that stands in HER daughter's way. I really don't find this crew of little psychopaths all that appealing, but it might be fun watching them get picked off one by one now that they're in power.

 

Dany: I was so glad to see that Jorah's discovery of the ring made sense. I hope that's a sign of things to come this season. I really enjoy it when things make sense. As for Drogon not immediately rallying to Mom's defense, didn't he JUST rescue her? And didn't he quite clearly say he was going to nap a bit and give his wounds a chance to heal some, before hunting again? And then Mom wanders off on her own like an idiot while he's still sleeping. He's a dragon, not a babysitter, dammit! Besides, he was sorely hurt in the arena and would not have stood a chance against hundreds of enraged Dothraki horse owners hell-bent on killing him and abducting his Mom. He'll get there when he gets there. He loves Danaerys but she's not in any immediate danger, and he'll be a lot more help to her when he's had a chance to snooze. It'll be so much easier to pick her up from Vaes Dothrak, than to face off against those hordes of warriors.

 

The Wall: Nothing better happen to Ghost. I chuckled when Alliser Thorne was making promises to Davos. Is there any particular reason why anyone should EVER believe a word Thorne says again? He killed his Lord Commander, whom he was sworn to serve and protect. He has no honor left, and I was pleased to see that Davos knew that.

 

Although I don't care much for Melisandra, I am a bit worried about her taking off her necklace. If I hadn't seen previews of her uttering lines she didn't say this episode, I would assume that we just witnessed her suicide. There's no reason to spend the night as an 80 year old if you could spend it as a 28-year-old. I think she's really crushed and confused, and does not know what to believe now. I hope Tormund shows up soon.

 

Jaime & Cersei: I found it charming that Cersei wondered out loud where Myrcella's goodness came from. Grandpa Tytos, would be my first guess. Her Daddy, would be my second. Yes, yes, I know, the Kingslayer threw a kid out a window, he boffs his sister, he's such a bastard...but he loves Tyrion. He rescued him. He loves Cersei with a selfless devotion that knows no limits, and is probably simply incapable yet of seeing that she is cruel and evil and hard. He is always conveniently away from court when Cersei commits her worst actions, and so can give her the benefit of the doubt.  I cried for them in spite of everything.

 

Sansa: There was nothing random about Brienne "stumbling" into her. She had been hanging around for weeks, waiting for Sansa's signal, and perhaps she saw it after she killed Stannis. It's probably still there. Anyway, I'm always glad to see Brienne, and never more than now.

 

I got weepy when Theon went to sacrifice himself for Sansa, and I was relieved when he didn't have to, yet. Incredibly well-acted scenes, especially Theon.

 

Tyrion: wow, that was brief. I guess now that Tyrion found the ships burning in the harbor, he's going to be in direct conflict with Ramsey. First order of business, kill whoever did this. Next, get Danaerys more ships.

 

Arya: These young actors get better every time we see them. Maisie is astonishing. I got the distinct feeling that this blind thing is just one more phase of Arya's training.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Hecate7

[Dev F]

Ok, good.  I came here strictly to see if I had missed something with the whole Trystane thing, and I'm glad to see it isn't just me who was like, "Uh, . . .what?"  I thought he was on the boat with Jaime and Myrcella as well.  And I was kinda looking forward this season to seeing that whole thing play out, whether they would hold him hostage now, or do something to him in retaliation.  Or just seeing how Cersei would react to having him in the mix.  But instead he's just . . . hanging around . . . somewhere?  And gets killed by his own countrywomen?

 

I'm pretty sure he was on the ship that Jaime sailed home in. You see him painting one of those rocks they put on the eyes of dead bodies, so he seemed to think he'd be going to Myrcella's funeral. I wonder if there's a deleted scene in which Jaime makes him wait on the boat until he can make sure that Cersei isn't going to murder him.

[Oscirus]

I can make this Dorne storyline work.  The sandsnakes waited for the prince and everybody else to depart then Obara and her sister quickly got on a smaller faster boat and followed the ship at a safe distance. Once they saw the ship was anchored, they waited for Jaime and Co to depart and then they quickly got on the ship and murdered Trystanne and Voila.

[Ravenya003]

The ironic thing about Alexander Siddig is that he was killed off on another show (Atlantis) so he could come to Game of Thrones... and then gets promptly killed off here as well. 

[MadMouse]

Dorne is the gift that keeps on giving.

 

 

[patchwork]

Unless we get more information I think Melisandra taking off her glamour is a combination visual exposition and the character being worn down and unsure of what to do next. After a very difficult few days she strips away the Red Woman allure/lure and goes to sleep so she can hide from the world.

 

I really liked the Night Watch stuff, which can be a bit hit or miss for me, Davos plays well of Thorne and Jon's friends. Thorne's speech made me chuckle, killing Jon after raising the gate to let the Wildlings through is too little too late but I get why the other members of the Night Watch are willing to follow him even after he confessed to killing the commander.

 

Always nice to see one of the dire wolves.

 

In the circumstances I give Sansa a pass at not remembering the oath, she's traumatised to hell, freezing to death and what does she have to offer a knight anyway. I would have liked a moment of recognition for her first husband's squire though. I'm so proud of Theon for killing one of the guards (and can only hope it was one of Ramsey's fabled Twenty Good Men). I'd like them to go to the Wall now but returning to the Vale and picking up her book storyline seems more likely. 

 

 

Dorne is such a yawnfest, can't we be done with this place and only hear about them through rumour or something from now on? A few lines of dialogue in a Small Council meeting will be enough to establish that the eldest daughter is now queen of Dorne and that the situation needs to be monitored.

Edited April 25, 2016 by patchwork

[OhOkayWhat]

3 things about Dorne

 

1) The show gave us the clues about the coup in season 5 episode 2( this is not something the showrunners decide to add just now) :

 

Ellaria:The whole country would have you go to war.

Doran:Then we are lucky the whole country does not decide.

Ellaria:The Sand Snakes are with me. We have the love of their people.....

 

( I think this is how the dialogue goes, correct me if I am wrong,please)

 

2) Some people say why Ellaria does that if Oberyn was not like that?, well, I think that is the whole point of the narrative about vengeance.Vengeance is a bad thing, it is irrational, it does not only betray your own humanity, it also betray the ideals and the good feelings of the loved ones you try to avenge. And they showed that, that vengeance makes the character go towards the path of the villain.

 

3) Remember that it was a Dornish ship and that Myrcella seems to be in a coffin when she arrives to Kings Landing, therefore they made a stop, probably in a big Port city. That gives the Sand Snakes plenty of time to sneak in the ship or something like that.

 

(By the way, most of these things, I read from another commenters in different boards and I am repeating them because they really make sense)

Edited April 25, 2016 by OhOkayWhat

[placate]

I read the Game of Throne comic book about a month ago, so I'm greatly anticipating the return to Vaes Dothrak.  It's been awhile since I've read the books but in the comics they show Vaes Dothrak (It was where Dany ate the horse heart but we don't get to see outside the tent).  Yes, it's where they send the widowed Khalessis but it's also the largest city the Dothraki have.  In the comics it's pointed out that the Dothraki don't build, but at Vaes Dothrak they had their slaves build all sorts of housing/buildings.  The comics say that Vaes Dothrak is so large that it can house all the khalesars.

 

I'm buying into Quaithe's to go forward you must go back and hoping that Dany recruits all the Khals to go back to Westeros with her.  I can't wait for the next book and hope GRRM puts it out before the next season.  I kept watching and wondering about what is book spoilers vs what is easier.  Cutting down the Dorne line to a bunch of bastards seems a bit stupid to me.  They seriously destabilized a region with the SS coup and managed to cut all the Dorne intrigues in later books it makes me wonder if all those chapters even matter?

 

Jorah and Daario brought back the Littlefinger time warping thing back.  Sansa and Theon were just minutes away from jumping from Winterfell but Jorah managed to travel to where Dany dropped the ring from Mereen in just one episode?

[Helena Dax]

What a twist! Melisandre was Aemon Targaryen in disguise!

Edited April 25, 2016 by Helena Dax

[dr pepper]

Hmm. Didn't expect Melisandre's true age, or the sand snake coup, but everything else fit nicely and moved the plot along. as usual, i was completely unaware of the passage of time and surprised when the episode's end came.

[dr pepper]

I want Ellaria and the Sand Snakes to go up in fucking smoke. Ugh, Dorne actually got worse. I'm literally shocked at how bad it is and I was spoiled. 

 

The smirking alone is enough to make me want to slap all four of them. 

 

last year i said that the sands snakes were disappointing wimps compared to the dangerous characters described in the books. now i find that mister big bad axe soldier is even wimpier :(

 

and yeah, what a waste of a truly great performer. hope he gets a new gig that'll actually nake use of his talents.

[ElizaD]

The Mel reveal wasn't a surprise since I'd heard about that theory, but it was still interesting to see this sign of how powerful she is, especially since it's been so long since the shadowbaby (the most obviously "magical" she's been). I wouldn't have guessed it during season 4, but in season 5 and this premiere the Wall has been my favorite storyline. It helps that it has good actors, who do something to salvage even the less logical moments (why let them through, Thorne? but it's OK, I still like you as an antagonist), and there's genuinely interesting twists and battles, first Hardhome and now the anticipation of finding out how Jon's inevitable resurrection will take place. Davos is such a warm presence that I'm really glad he's getting to shine.

 

Season 1 was Dany's best storyline, so I'm cautiously optimistic about the first half of her season. I don't like her regular supporting cast, but if she's going to be stuck in still-not-Westeros the Dothraki are better than Meereen.

 

I've actually found NCW's acting disappointing after season 3, and when that is combined with the writing I can't help but see Jaime as a bad guy now. The smugness and selfishness, without the moments of maternal love that Cersei is given, makes him unpleasant.

 

If Sansa had died in 5x10, at least that would allowed me to forget about her storyline and the way this show treats rape victims. Even after a season of sexual slavery Sansa can't be allowed a little bit of dignity, we have to be reminded that she deserves our ridicule for being a useless moron. She's been used to prop Tyrion, Littlefinger, Ramsay and Theon, but now she was made to look like an uneducated idiot for the sake of Podrick Payne. What an absolute low for the character. I'd rather not see her on the show at all than get scene after scene where it's made clear she exists to be an idiot and her reaction to being raped in her childhood home deserves less screentime than her rapist's reaction to his girlfriend's death. What was the logic here? Brienne swearing her loyalty to Sansa, in the first episode after her escape, was turned into an aww moment for Pod when brainless Sansa screws up yet again. If there was any intention this season to make Sansa look like she's not too stupid to live, why the hell start with her needing Theon and Pod to tell her what to do? Why not allow her to look competent and demonstrate some etiquette and people skills in this tiny way? But no, even that's asking too much. This should soothe the viewers who were worried that the showrunners would cave in after the rape controversy and have Sansa act ridiculously out of character by not being a miserable failure at everything: she still exists to be laughed at and make other characters look good! And the sole purpose of the season 5 storyline was the shock of the rape, so of course Roose only tells Ramsay it was stupid after Sansa has been the sex slave of the showrunners' beloved "badass" Ramsay (as they described him) for weeks.

 

I've questioned some of the show's adaptational choices and find its use of rape solely for shock value depressing, but there is no other plot on the show that has the B-movie feel that Dorne does. Oberyn was good and Varma/Siddig were actors I'd hoped would get those roles, but it's completely fallen apart. It's not just the writing that is bad, the acting can be laughable, and we're getting both flaws at the same time. I would be perfectly fine with never seeing Dorne again and just hearing that Obara 'Martell' is in charge, but I'm afraid we're getting irredeemably villainous Ellaria + Snakes because they'll show up again only to be destroyed by Cersei or Tyrion in revenge for Myrcella's death. It's extra disappointing that the one region in Westeros with equal inheritance rights has been taken over by cartoonishly evil women, a cheap "strong women" move that's easier than actually committing screentime and respect to the experiences of female characters who aren't conquerors or opportunities for rape and T&A.

[OhOkayWhat]

Another thing.....Podrick is awesome!. Loved the scene when he helped Sansa with the oath. So many feelings! How uncommon and great is for Sansa to find someone who also knows about all those phrases and house things she learned and loved when she was young, and the solemn way Pod said the words...he really want to be a knight. Love Gwendoline acting, amazing. And Alfie as Theon too.

[OhOkayWhat]

Eliza D, I think the point of showing Pod helping Sansa to say something she should know (I am almost sure young Sansa imagined herself thousands of times with a kneeling knight making him rise after the oath) is to show that she is still struggling with everything after such traumatic events, it is logical, it is very understandable, it is very human. And even with all that, Sansa behaved with lots of dignity. I loved the scene.

Edited April 25, 2016 by OhOkayWhat

[mrspidey]

Ok, so if GRRM's plan for Dorne is to join forces with fAegon, Ellaria's coup d'etat does make sense. With the absence of both, the Dornish Master Plan and fAegon, there needs to be a different reason for Dorne going on a war path. So I'm fine with that change. I just wish the Sand Snakes would be less bland...

[OhOkayWhat]

mrspidey, yes, I agree, it makes sense. And the Sand Snakes should avoid making jokes... really.... *shakes head* (the show writer really failed on that)

Edited April 25, 2016 by OhOkayWhat

[areca]

I should further clarify that I didn't claim the word fuck was too modern, I claimed the dialogue, for some characters, was too modern. What I meant was the whole sentence construction, not just the one word.  For example, Sand Snake number 2 telling Sand Snake number one "You're a really greedy bitch, you know that?".  Or the entire conversation between the two Dothraki taking Dany to their Khal; that played more like a couple of misogynistic contemporary guys who've had too much to drink than two Dothraki warriors from the book.

Also, I said that when a character that doesn't use foul language in the books does so on the show, it takes me out of the story.  Jaimie is a good example of this.  I don't think even his own inner monologue has foul language.  Not until Tyrion tells him about Cersei sleeping with everybody, and even then, it's mostly just him recalling Tyrion's words.

 

Agreed with all of it.  The use of fuck hasn't been the modern usage of it ever, just the verb.  I felt like the writers for this episode didn't know a damn thing about their characters.

Edited April 25, 2016 by areca

[SeanC]

On a minor note, Lady Nym should be grateful that Obara speared Trystane through the head, because he was like a foot away from her with a sword, and all she had was a coiled bullwhip.  In any rational world, she was going to die -- but then, these are Dornish characters.

[Scaeva]

Someone made a comment about the word fuck being too modern and wrecking scenes but that word has been used consistently throughout the history of the show, along with the words cunt, tits, ass, pussy, shit and cum and probably a bunch more that I'm sure Tyrion could fill in.

 

The word fuck also has medieval origins. It's not as modern as most people think. For a good laugh...

 

In 2015, Dr. Paul Booth claimed to have found "(possibly) the earliest known use of the word 'fuck' that clearly has a sexual connotation": in English court papers from 8 December 1310, a man local to Chester is referred to as "Roger Fuckebythenavele", probably a nickname. "Either this refers to an inexperienced copulator, referring to someone trying to have sex with the navel, or it's a rather extravagant explanation for a dimwit, someone so stupid they think this that is the way to have sex," says Booth. 

Previously, the usually accepted first known occurrence was in code in a poem in a mixture of Latin and English composed in the 15th century.

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuck#Etymology

 

Roger sounds like he could have been a side character from Flea Bottom!

Edited April 25, 2016 by Scaeva

[Chris24601]

The Wall: Nothing better happen to Ghost. I chuckled when Alliser Thorne was making promises to Davos. Is there any particular reason why anyone should EVER believe a word Thorne says again? He killed his Lord Commander, whom he was sworn to serve and protect. He has no honor left, and I was pleased to see that Davos knew that.

At this point I'm struggling to see how the Watch even SURVIVES the next few episodes. If Thorne hadn't admitted to murdering Jon I could have seen it lasting until the Walkers come and The Wall inevitably falls...

 

But Thorne just announced to all the remaining Watch (all forty-some of them) that he and the rest of the leadership got together and murdered their Lord Commander AND everyone else basically shrugged and went along with it as they then went to go try to trick the last of Jon's supporters into opening a door so they can kill more of their sworn brothers too.

 

I don't see how this doesn't end with Alliser, Ollie and every last member of the Night Watch who isn't behind that door being cut down by the hundreds or thousands of Wildlings Dolorous Edd is bringing back (with special hope that Ollie gets squished into paste by Wun Wun's foot). The half-dozen remaining men who survive this just aren't enough to even pretend to hold The Wall.

 

I half expect Alliser to hold a quickie election to get himself declared the 999th Lord Commander with the added irony that it was his actions that directly lead to the utter destruction of the Night's Watch. The vows may be unto death, but they aren't to sit uselessly on The Wall waiting for death either. Presuming they don't just fudge the numbers of dead Alliser followers, I half expect to see the remaining half-dozen Jon loyalists collapse the gate through The Wall and then head south to recruit new sworn brothers for the battle that's coming (I could see everyone splitting up and heading south on various missions with a "We rally at Winterfell" exhortation as the last time we see Castle Black in the series at this point).