S05.E18: Ruby Slippers

[KingOfHearts]

 

But isn't Mulan already established as LGBT because she acknowledged feelings for Aurora?  She even mentioned how she waited too long to say anything in this episode.

Arguably, it was left ambiguous whether she loved Phillip or Aurora. We never got hard confirmation it was Aurora. (Even though it seemed pretty obvious.)

Edited April 18, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[scenicbyway]

I almost forgot...at least Regina gave a shout out to Robin Hood! Interesting that she used his last name, it's almost like the audience would've said, "Robin who?"

[Mari]

Also, why are some people dismissive of Belle taking a sleeping curse to save her baby?  It's no less stupid than Snow taking it to save Charming or Henry taking it to save his mother in S1. It's pretty consistent with other heroes on this show. 

I think it is, actually.

 

At the points you're referencing, Snow/David and Henry/Emma both have confirmed true loves.  They just have to be reunited.

 

Belle's "true love" is Rumple, and, well, at this point in the story?  He's not going to be able to break that curse.  (Now, the show may flip on that later, but, well, Belle doesn't know that.)  Her other choice is her father--who not that long ago was willing to mind wipe her because he didn't like her staying with Rumple.  Her dad might love her, but that's not an automatic curse-break.  Especially since he isn't dead yet, and they'll have to get them into the same realm, which isn't supposed to be particularly easy.  (And if it is, why not just send Belle out of Underbrooke, and then she can curse herself, if that's the best plan?)

 

There's absolutely no evidence that the curse will follow normal rules in Underbrooke, and even if it does, Hades has a completely different set of powers than a lot of their previous villains.  There's no guarantee at all that he can't just speed up baby Rumbelle, after all.

 

Since it's not that hard, here, to be doomed to eternal torment, maybe leaving yourself, and your child, defenseless and no way to fight back if someone decides to punish Rumple by dropping you in a river is not a good plan.

[kennyab]

But isn't Mulan already established as LGBT because she acknowledged feelings for Aurora?  She even mentioned how she waited too long to say anything in this episode.

 

It's never been outright stated. The closest we got was the implication that she was going to try to tell Aurora until she found out Aurora was pregnant. There's just enough wiggle room to claim that Mulan was going to tell Aurora that she was in love with Philip (even though we know that's not the scene's intention). But Mulan's never explicitly confirmed that she was in love with Aurora.

[KateJones]

Good riddance, Belle. Seriously all the scenes with her and Zelena of all people demonstrated how wildly exaggerated all of EDR's expressions and mannerisms are. Zelena is usually the scenery chewer but this time she was understated or at least not manic like belle.

[Suzysite]

This show is boring and annoying.  I find myself hate-watching it.  

 

 

I hope we never see her, Mulan or Red again

Yes, times 1000. 

[maraleia]

Well, now I think we know the backstory behind this.

 

Also, the tables have been flipped.  Really, A&E?  This is your big oh-so-important LGBT story?  One that happened in full in just one episode, between characters that had no relevancy to the main story arc whatsoever?  Gimme a break...

 

 

We were queer baited again. That's what happened and I'm sick of it. I'm so close to being done with this show along with the 16 other shows I've dropped since this past September.

[Mathius]

Arguably, it was left ambiguous whether she loved Phillip or Aurora. We never got hard confirmation it was Aurora. (Even though it seemed pretty obvious.)

 

There's just enough wiggle room to claim that Mulan was going to tell Aurora that she was in love with Philip

 

No, it wasn't ambiguous. Mulan came to Aurora, Aurora said she'd go get Philip but Mulan said "No, there's no need...it's YOU I wanted to see". Right there, that was confirmation that she wanted to confess her feelings to Aurora, otherwise she would't have told her not to go get Philip. Still, it's annoying how they don't outright say it was Aurora now in S5.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Mathius

[mjgchick]

I'm convinced Disney is not allowing them to go there.

[Shanna Marie]

I was really thinking they'd go for a twist and have Toto be the true love. There was all that chasing after him, then the talk about him being more than just a pet. And no, I didn't think they meant it that way. Just that True Love on this show hasn't always been shown to be romantic, and the love between pet and owner can be pretty true. Probably more true than the love that develops after one snippy conversation.

 

On the up side, if Mo can't wake Belle from the sleeping curse, there's bound to be someone she had a chat with who can wake her.

 

And Mulan, you never had a chance, even if you'd said something, and it would have been a jerk move to say something, since Aurora and Philip were cursed right before their wedding, long before you met either of them, and they were kiss-confirmed True Love. Moving in on either partner in an established relationship is just tacky. Quit beating yourself up about that because you did the right thing. Now, find someone awesome and move on. It is sad that they went with the brand-new, random character likely to never be seen again to create the relationship instead of the person Red has been traveling with for however many days/weeks and developing a level of trust.

 

But I did like the chat between David and Hook. It struck just the right tone. They're not best friends, but they recognize the role they've played in each other's lives.

 

Zelena is growing on me, in a weird way.

[Tiger]

I think it is, actually.

At the points you're referencing, Snow/David and Henry/Emma both have confirmed true loves. They just have to be reunited.

Belle's "true love" is Rumple, and, well, at this point in the story? He's not going to be able to break that curse. (Now, the show may flip on that later, but, well, Belle doesn't know that.) Her other choice is her father--who not that long ago was willing to mind wipe her because he didn't like her staying with Rumple. Her dad might love her, but that's not an automatic curse-break. Especially since he isn't dead yet, and they'll have to get them into the same realm, which isn't supposed to be particularly easy. (And if it is, why not just send Belle out of Underbrooke, and then she can curse herself, if that's the best plan?)

There's absolutely no evidence that the curse will follow normal rules in Underbrooke, and even if it does, Hades has a completely different set of powers than a lot of their previous villains. There's no guarantee at all that he can't just speed up baby Rumbelle, after all.

Since it's not that hard, here, to be doomed to eternal torment, maybe leaving yourself, and your child, defenseless and no way to fight back if someone decides to punish Rumple by dropping you in a river is not a good plan.

I hope they go to Maurice to wake her up and he's all "nah, I'm good".

[Rumsy4]

I don't think Disney care if Mulan was bi/lesbian in Once Upon a Time. Mulan is not a recent movie like Frozen. Maybe A&E chickened out of giving an interracial LGBT romance.

[KingOfHearts]

I had a good thought - what if the sleeping curse needle was the one Zelena stole from Regina in 3x13? (Or she took it, studied it, and replicated it.)

 

I totally missed the Captain Charming scene due to a special weather report. I missed most of the TLK scene as well, but watched it later and concluded it was too over-dramatic for what we got. I got some bad vibes from them attempting to recreate the Snowing scene from the pilot. (Munchkins = Dwarves.) Thanks show for trying to oversell a romance we probably won't see much of again. Don't get me wrong - I'm happy that they're happy. It's a positive message. But the implications with Mulan and lack of buildup make it disappointing if you're in-the-know.

Edited April 18, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[maraleia]

I don't think Disney care if Mulan was bi/lesbian in Once Upon a Time. Mulan is not a recent movie like Frozen. Maybe A&E chickened out of giving an interracial LGBT romance.

That's what I tweeted. That they neutered Mulan because this show (read Adam and Eddie) refuses to have anyone other that white characters find any romantic partners. It's so damn regressive and sad because Disney was one of the first media companies to be LGBT friendly including gay days at Disneyland and Disney World.

 

Also, I'm bored senseless with the show and can't keep track of the damn timeline and why things happen the way they do. That's bad story telling and so many shows are suffering from this issue this season.

Edited April 18, 2016 by maraleia

[InsertWordHere]

I was really thinking they'd go for a twist and have Toto be the true love. There was all that chasing after him, then the talk about him being more than just a pet. And no, I didn't think they meant it that way. 

I know you don't mean it that way but Toto could have been a Dog Prince or Princess. 

I don't think Disney care if Mulan was bi/lesbian in Once Upon a Time. Mulan is not a recent movie like Frozen. Maybe A&E chickened out of giving an interracial LGBT romance.

I think it is glaring that their only POC Disney Princess (besides the one-off Rapunzel) keeps getting pushed aside.

Edited April 18, 2016 by InsertWordHere

[thuganomics85]

OK, then.....

 

One hand, it's nice to see a lesbian couple actually get a happing ending on this show and they didn't even try to cut away from any of the kissing, which is sadly kind of impressive for this show.  But, wow, talk about fast.  Did Ruby and Dorothy even know each other for more then a day?  And, suddenly they are both head over heels in love with each other?  I might have bought it more if they actresses had massive chemistry, but I thought Meghan Ory easily had more chemistry in her scenes with Jamie Chung then Teri Reeves, so it really made their suddenly attraction seem out of left field.  And the only times Ruby really hung with Dorothy, she was mainly grumpy, angry, and rude?  That's really Ruby's type?  OK, then.

 

I felt bad that Mulan basically got sidelined, although I'm still hoping that the reason they didn't go their with Ruby is because they'll somehow make her and Aurora work out.

 

And, yes, while I figured out early on that Ruby was going to be Dorothy's "True Love's Kiss", I was so hoping it would be Toto.  It obviously sounds like it doesn't have to be romantic love since a family member can do it, so why not be a dog who clearly loves his owner?!

 

I'm guessing Snow suddenly going back to Storybrooke is because they needed to get Ginnifer Goodwin off screen, but at least they had time to remind viewers of her friendship with Ruby, and she and Charming had a nice farewell.

 

Charming and Hook being buddy-buddy will never get old with me.

 

Henry being all "This should make you happy!" to Charming about his new pages, and automatically handing him the one that had Ruby and Dorothy making out first, made me laugh.  Was waiting for Charming to be like "Whoa, Henry!  I get that we have a lack of porn now that our internet connection is gone, but this is going too far!"

 

Belle puts herself under the sleeping curse to stop Hades from taking her baby.  I know she said for Rumple to just find her dad to lift it, but I will totally not be surprised if it ends with him doing it anyway.

 

Zelena has finally given up and agreed to be Team Hades.

 

Glad to see Cruella show back up for a second.

Edited April 18, 2016 by thuganomics85

[MaiLuna]

So..what more of a waste The Bear King is now. We cared and knew about Mulan and Red as individual characters, they had a meet cute (which was also shown in the previously section), they'd had quite a bit of screentime together and the audience like them both. I know this is based of fairytales, but TLK after 3 scenes? "I couldn't lose you after spending 15 minutes with you". Mulan and Red had much better chemistry in that one scene they shared. And it would've been badass to have an interracial lesbian couple. Ruby was pretty cute in love but I don't see what she saw in Dorothy. Maybe this will give Mulan hope and she'll go have a polyamorous relationship with Phillip and Aurora (I know it's this show, but let me dream!). This felt totally like a token LGBT pairing. 

 

Nice job at writing off Emilie and Ginny. 

It's funny that Robin is still in the woods with a newborn baby. Where do they sleep, how does he feed her? Maybe Regina left him some magic formula. 

Now I really need for them to save the souls in the river. Milah, Gaston, Auntie Em. If not it would be too depressing. 

Zelena was changing and now she's with Hades for all the wrong reasons. But I'm sure she'll come around in the end. 

And I'm sure Rumpel will wake Belle up. That TLK is so much worse than rushed R/D. Two TLKs and none for CS. I don't care, they're the best couple anyway :P 

Edited April 18, 2016 by MaiLuna

[3dog]

Is Zelena playing Hades? I couldn't decide her motives or even her reaction really when he was dribbling Auntie Em out of that mason jar.

[maryle]

I guess overall ok for a filler episode and définitively happy about some some representation.

My favorite scene was the captain Charming scene and all the present suff at least the heros did something concrete and Hook found a way to play with Hades own rule.

Happy that for once team hero use their bain instead than magic to achieve a goal.

KILLIAN is not so useless!

Now for some negative thought about the episode.

People always claim  the show focus too much on romantic love and should focus on all kinds of others love instead, but they also always ask for more new couple.

Even when it is oblivious that all  those couples cannot have any building up because of the nature of the show and the fact they already have a lot of establish couple who do not receive enough attention right now.

I am happy for the people who wanted to see all those pairing and even ask to add more... 

But for me, I prefer they gave a real story to Snowing (Loved their scene tonight), OQ (who will soon face something big ) or CS to have a meaty scene with all have happened to them and we know Jen and Colin can carry an emotional scene after 5a.

And Belle est stupid! A sleeping curse, really?

[Mari]

It's funny that Robin is still in the woods with a newborn baby. Where do they sleep, how does he feed her? 

I know!

 

Why didn't anyone go get Robin and Pistachio?  Wouldn't Pistachio have been safer with Snow and Nealflake in Storybrooke than she is hanging out with Robin in the woods?

[Rhetorica]

I haven't watched this show for more than a season. I just turned it on tonight to have on in the background while doing something else. What a nice surprise! I have no idea what's going on. From what I've read, Red & Dorothy were not an item before tonight. Are they regulars this season, so we will see more of them?

[Mari]

From what I've read, Red & Dorothy were not an item before tonight. Are they regulars this season, so we will see more of them?

Nope.

 

Most likely a random one-off and we'll not see them again for ages, if ever.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Most likely a random one-off and we'll not see them again for ages, if ever.

Red and Mulan will probably meet up with Tiana next season, who will give Red her spark back after an intense break-up with Dorothy.

 

Honestly, Moe is so shifty that I doubt a TLK would even work. However, after tonight, I'm sure Toto could lick Belle's face and she'd wake up.

Edited April 18, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[scenicbyway]

Is it odd that the group isn't wondering what Belle and Rumple are up to or is Belle still meeting Hook for tea and filling him in each week? I just find it odd that Dorothy's story was in the book and then the OZ TLK but there was no page about Belle's pregnancy, meeting with Zelena or sleeping curse.

Rumple's argument about Belle not doing the sleeping curse was pretty half hearted. I suppose will have to put up with lovesick Rumple until she wakes up, then he'll go back to being annoyed by her...

[KAOS Agent]

I wasn't expecting much at all from this episode and I didn't get much, so way to meet my expectations, show! 

 

Some thoughts:

 

* Belle is the worst. I don't particularly care about the sleeping curse, but what set me off was that she told Rumpel to do whatever it takes to get her to her father. Carte blanche to the Dark One. So she's totally cool with him killing everyone as long as the contract becomes null and void. 

 

* The Dorothy/Red romance further cheapens True Love on this show. Why was Rumpel working so hard to get Snow & Charming together in S1? Everyone has True Love and it happens in five minutes. It's not that difficult, Rumpel. Nice to see that they didn't cut away from the full on makeout session between Ruby & Dorothy though.

 

* The Captain Charming stuff was nice. It's good to see them not go overboard while still showing that they do care.

 

* I'm still annoyed at Snowing for leaving their baby by choice and then whining about how they're missing everything. What kind of morons don't understand the concept that leaving your child to go to hell means that you won't be with him and something bad could happen to you while you're there?

 

* I still love Cruella.

 

* Finally, the Kansas and Wolfie nicknames made me cringe every time they used them.

Edited April 18, 2016 by KAOS Agent

[Curio]

It's sad that the best part of the episode was a 40-second chat between Charming and Hook. More "boring" talks like that, please!

 

I was really thinking they'd go for a twist and have Toto be the true love. There was all that chasing after him, then the talk about him being more than just a pet.

 

When I heard the "more than just a pet" line, I was convinced Toto was actually a human permanently cursed as a dog, and that's why Dorothy was so attached to her. (In my theory, "Toto" would be a nickname for a girl named Tonia.) Then, I thought the episode might have turned into an adventure about Dorothy getting captured by Zelena and being put under a sleeping spell before she could tell Mulan and Ruby about Toto's curse. At first, it would seem like no one but Dorothy's little dog could give her True Love's Kiss, so everyone would think Dorothy's screwed. But then Ruby—with her special knowledge about shifting into a wolf—would sniff out the truth and realize Toto was actually a human stuck in dog form. (Callback to her plot from 5A!) And then Mulan, Ruby, and dog-Toto could have gone on an adventure in Oz trying to find a potion that could turn Toto back into a human so she could True Love Kiss™ Dorothy, and also because being stuck as an animal sucks. Ruby would soon realize the potion is with Zelena (who originally turned Toto into a dog in the first place to spite Dorothy, which also gives Dorothy a legit reason to be super pissed at Zelena and justify her grouchy personality, and would also give a nice retconned significance to Toto dropping a curtain on Zelena a few episodes ago) and that's how Ruby ends up in the Underworld by using the tracking spell. By the end of the episode, Zelena would make a breakthrough, gain a conscience, and give Ruby the dog-shifting potion even though she hates Dorothy. Ruby could travel back to Oz with the potion and Snow, help Toto turn back into a human with the help of Mulan, and watch Toto give Dorothy a True Love's Kiss. Afterward, Mulan Rouge would realize that they kind of developed feelings for each other as well, and Mulan seeing Dorothy and Tonia sharing such a powerful love for each other would finally give her the courage to tell Ruby how she feels. And then we could save a Ruby/Mulan TLK for a later episode so it isn't just a one-off deal.

 

But I guess Ruby Slippers falling in love after knowing each other for less than 24 hours works, too. (Didn't the Frozen movie make fun of that exact same fairy tale trope?) Don't get me wrong, I'm glad the show finally included some better representation, but I'm just shocked the writers didn't weave the story better throughout 5A since they knew they were going to introduce it for a while now.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Curio

[Randomosity]

...CS to have a meaty scene with all have happened to them and we know Jen and Colin can carry an emotional scene after 5a.

 

In a way, I agree, seeing as I do love me some CaptainSwan, but on the other hand, I almost like that they're not getting all sorts of dramatic fanfare right now. Of course, there will be some given that Hook's still dead and I guess they still have to figure out some sort of heart-sharing. But for now? It's kind of nice to just have them BE among the rest of the craziness. They're together, they're in love, they're canon, and there's not some crazy drama ripping them apart or causing turmoil every second. They're just a regular old established couple, at least for these few episodes that are focusing on other (ridiculous/boring) things. It's kind of nice, I think, that their relationship is so much of a given that it's not a focus right now.

 

I've felt for a while that Snow/Charming sort of had that evolution as a couple - the shmoopy romance tales early on in the show, when things were closer to traditional Disney, but that with all the other nutty things that came along after that, they had moved on and become a normal couple, together and tackling the hurdles of Storybrooke together. I often thought it would be nice for Killian and Emma to get to that point too, and I think they're getting there. *fingers crossed*

[Souris]

Fuck I hate this show. Mulan deserves so much better. The only thing I loved about this episode was Hook and Charming's Bromance being canon.

 

Same. The CaptainCharming scene was nice, and I love that they came up with the plan to let Snow get back to Snowflake. And I loved when Emma was encouraging Snow to leave. That had depth. The rest was empty and soulless.

 

Why did they even bother writing the pregnancy in? This really falls in the column of shit that makes no sense.

 

I don't know about Ruby Slippers. I was already invested in Mulan Rouge. The only thing I was happy about with this outcome is that Mulan didn't seem heartbroken or anything like that about Ruby being in insta-love with Dorothy. 

 

I enjoyed the Killian/David scenes. Also, Hades didn't enchant the hand, he gave him a chisel. The writers can't even keep track of what they wrote 6 episodes ago.

 

So many good points! Ugh, the chisel/hook thing is awful. So shoddy!!

 

Why bother writing Belle pregnant if we're not going to see Belle pregnant while Emilie is pregnant? It's utterly pointless!

 

They had clearly set up Ruby & Mulan to become a couple in their previous episode, but they just as clearly changed it to Ruby & Dorothy for some inexplicable reason. I wonder if it was simply because we'd figured out it was Ruby/Mulan, and they care more about "surprising" us than paying off what they've set up. Inexcusable. That was a BIG mistake in my opinion. We knew & loved Ruby & Mulan as individuals, so would have been more invested in them finding a Happy Ending together. Dorothy and Ruby knew each other for literally one day! And suddenly they're True Love enough to break a sleeping curse? That's not even remotely satisfying! Then Ruby could have admitted her feelings for Dorothy and they could have worked from there. But a TLK for them? Nope! That utterly cheapens the power of a TLK, IMO. How sad is it that Toto TLKing Dorothy would've been more realistic.

 

They'd damn well better find a way to free all the poor characters who ended up in the River of Lost Souls. Auntie Em!! That's just unpleasant.

[Delphi]

Wow, Jamie seemed pissed in that tweet.

Also, I can see why Rumple and Belle ate separated from the main cast. They have very different goals. One being save Hook while the other is save the baby. It's natural that they'd be in contact but still by themselves working to their own goals.

[Aliasscape]

Is it odd that the group isn't wondering what Belle and Rumple are up to or is Belle still meeting Hook for tea and filling him in each week? I just find it odd that Dorothy's story was in the book and then the OZ TLK but there was no page about Belle's pregnancy, meeting with Zelena or sleeping curse.

Haha, no it's not odd in the slightest. Let's not forget Merida KIDNAPPED Belle during the first half of the season and no one ever noticed or wondered where she went.  Belle is never treated like a real live person by Regina, Hook or the Charming family. Not that I blame them since she never behaves in a way a real person should.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Aliasscape

[InsertWordHere]

I find it hilarious that  those of us in the spoiler thread were wondering if Claude's reappearance would be tied to Hook, Belle, or Regina, and he ended up being a random henchman of Cruella's. Hook was right there and Claude didn't say, "Hey, I'm that guy you killed!" Poor Claude, even he apparently needs to be reminded that Hook killed him. Maybe Claude also doesn't recognize Killian without his hook in his neck. I have to think something was dropped on the cutting room floor there. Maybe there will be more Claude to come. 

 

Belle is supposed to be like one week pregnant, right? Why is Zelena, who while not pregnant for long, was at least three weeks further along in her pregnancy than Belle is right now, saying that she wasn't pregnant long enough to experience morning sickness? Belle has been pregnant for less time than Zelena was. 

[CheshireCat]

I was so hoping they would show Zelena and Hades learning of Ruby breaking the sleeping curse! It would have been such a satisfaction to see Hades realize that it's bascially impossible to stop someone who has hope.

 

I'm surprised that no one tried to force Charming and Hook to make the deal with Cruella. You'd think they'd revolt at least a bit if they're faced with someone who has the power to keep them connected with their loved ones and they're not doing it.

 

So, is Zelena giving Hades a chance for real or does she have an agenda? After all, a TLK would re-start Hades heart and asking him to get her her daughter back wasn't the first thing she did.

Edited April 18, 2016 by CheshireCat

[pezgirl7]

Was the Claude actor the same as in the past episodes? He looked different to me.

This episode was disappointing because Dorothy was so unlikable. I love The Wizard of Oz movie, and Judy Garland's Dorothy was brave, despite being afraid, and head-strong while still being kind and sweet. I found Once's Dorothy to have a complete lack of charm. I have no idea why Ruby was so instantly attracted to her.

[kili]

Let me get this straight...Red used a locator spell to find Zelena so Zelena could tell her where Dorothy is? Did we ever find out why Red simply didn't use the locator spell to find Dorothy? Apparently, Mulan and half of Oz found Dorothy so she was findable.  Mulan, Toto (who freed him?) and half-of-Oz then proceeded to stare at a sleeping Dorothy. That's what happens when people don't have internet or cable...they stare at sleeping people and watch paint dry. 

 

That river of Lost Souls water has quite a delayed reaction on it. You would think it would have turned Auntie Em to milky floor water when she drank it instead of a full minute later. Still, Hook should probably not drink anything. I'm surprised people just resumed eating in her restaurant. I would have just left the food and gone across the street to the competition.

 

Man, Hook's carving skills are much worse than his penmanship. 

 

Was Zelena distracting Hades or was she making a deal with him? She didn't seem to be too thrilled with his plans or his melting of Auntie Em. Plus, she helped foil his plan by giving Belle a sleeping curse.

 

I love how Rumple straight up says he's not going to TLK Belle. When you put it that way, it can't be true love. Even Belle knows it. Meanwhile, Red and Dorothy know each other for about 5 minutes and they have a TLK.  Anybody got a locator spell I can use to find my eyes? They rolled under the table. Or maybe Zelena can tell me where they went.

 

How does Zelena still have flying monkeys? Weren't they all returned to human form when she died? Or did she create some new ones in the 5 minutes she was in Oz? 

 

Dorothy, I don't mean to be rude, but Zelena did kindly give you the shoes so you could return to your family, she does want to get back to her child and you do want her out of OZ. Giving her back the shoes might be the best option.

[Primetimer]

The Underworld meets Oz when Dorothy meets Mulan and her little werewolf, too.

Read the story

[CheshireCat]

kili, on 18 Apr 2016 - 12:26 AM, said:

Let me get this straight...Red used a locator spell to find Zelena so Zelena could tell her where Dorothy is?

 

Yes. And you bring up a good point especially since she had the fabric from Dorothy. But if a locator spell actually takes you to the Underworld... there's a teeny-tiny question I have about portals and difficulties to get to the Underworld and needing Rumple's blood to get to the Underworld...

[Camera One]

Enough with the insta-love!  It didn't work for Zelena/Hades, and it was even worse in this episode.  Those nicknames were cringe-worthy. 

 

That actress played Dorothy with zero charisma and the woodenness of Pinocchio.  She had the look down, but the dour and cavalier attitude was really grating.  She wasn't good even in the scenes when she softened.  Even worse than Merida.  Because of that, there was no chemistry at all between Dorothy and Red, and the whole episode's premise depended on that.  Would it have killed them to slow down and develop that over time?  Why are shows still doing "very special..." episodes?  No wonder that writing was so clunky... Henry was the author.

 

I did like seeing Mulan again.  Always the bridesmaid, eh?

 

I'm sad they killed Aunt Em, but hopefully, everyone in the river will be saved.  That fate was even worse than Gaston or Milah since Aunt Em felt herself turn into water.  What was her unfinished business?

 

I liked Zelena more in this episode.  I wish they had done a bit more of this before "Devil's Due", so the change hadn't been so abrupt.  I'm starting to believe she is working on redemption now.  Actually, I thought she would cleverly get some of the Aunt Em water left in the pitcher, and then revive her or something.

 

As said above, I am not convinced that suddenly, Belle's father will work as a true love's kiss.  It has always been interpreted as just one person with an extremely deep connection being the true love.  I mean, the Dwarves loved Snow, so why couldn't they wake her up with a kiss?  Aurora's parents could have given her a true love's kiss too. 

 

I thought the sudden "need to get someone home" subplot was really abrupt and clunky.  Especially the dialogue in the cemetery.  Snow and Charming should go home, someone suggested, and then it took a few lines before someone raised the fact that Snow's name was on the tombstone. 

 

And the goodbye scene... Snow didn't even hug Henry.  Why wouldn't Snow and Red go with Robin and the baby? 

 

So if Rumple gets Belle back to her father, and Belle wakes up, does that mean she will be able to forgive Rumple because he loved her enough to keep that promise?  

 

This episode seems to be this half-season's "The Bear and the Bow".

 

I'm still enjoying the Underworld, so I'm looking forward to what's next.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Camera One

[Curio]

I'm sorry, but as far as puns go, Mulan Rouge > Ruby Slippers.

[Rumsy4]

Man, Hook's carving skills are much worse than his penmanship.

Hook is right handed, and he had to use his left... hook to carve on an upright grave stone. I think we can give him a pass. I actually like Hook's flourishing writing style in other cases.

[blugirlami21]

I'm so glad Belle took herself out. God are she and Rumple annoying to watch. I too didn't understand why she thought a sleeping curse would prevent Hades from taking her baby. That hadn't been tested or proven to be fact. Why not try and go back to Storybrook where he can't actually do much?

Am I the only one who was confused as to why Hook carved Charming's name on the headstone? Why didn't he carve Zelena's name or Belle's name or anyone else's name? Just seemed like a huge plot hole to me. And why didn't Snow offer to take Henry with her?

Ruby's five minute romance was disappointing because damn was Dorothy abrasive bit it ultimately matters not since Ruby's not going to be around anyway, right?

I think Mulan would have been the better choice but I definitely don't hope her consolation prize is Aurora. Aurora's a happily married wife and mother it wouldn't make any sense for her to be with Mulan at this point. I'm actually hoping that Mulan is bi so that she can be with Shang. He's definitely one of the best of the disney "princes."

Edited April 18, 2016 by blugirlami21

[InsertWordHere]

Hook is right handed, and he had to use his left... hook to carve on an upright grave stone. I think we can give him a pass. I actually like Hook's flourishing writing style in other cases.

I just assumed Hook unscrewed the hook and held it with his right hand to carve the name, although your explanation is kinder to his carving skills than mine is. 

[KingOfHearts]

 

This episode seems to be this half-season's "The Bear and the Bow".

I thought it was this half-season's "The Bear King". The break episode about a totally irrelevant subplot featuring Team Princess.

[Rumsy4]

Hades tortured Hook because he refused to carve anyone's names on the gravestones. He's not going to do it now. None of them would want to throw Belle or Zelena under the bus so Snowing can go back to Storybrooke. Charming willingly consented to take Snow's place on the gravestone so she could be the one to leave. Henry wouldn't want to leave. But they should have taken Robin and Pistachio with them. It's not like he's needed in the UW.

I just assumed Hook unscrewed the hook and held it with his right hand to carve the name

Duh. I didn't think of that. Still I think it would be harder to carve something on a smooth slab of upright stone than on wood. Edited April 18, 2016 by Rumsy4

[Camera One]

Maybe they're saving Merida for Mulan?  

[KAOS Agent]

Maybe they're saving Merida for Mulan?

 

Don't even put that out there in the universe! Mulan deserves way better than that.

 

I am disappointed that they didn't have Mulan go with Red to the Underworld just because I'd like to see her reaction to Captain Swan. It would have made for a light moment in an otherwise depressing place.

Edited April 18, 2016 by KAOS Agent

[Camera One]

Yeah, Mulan in the Underworld would have made this episode better.  

 

Hopefully, Snow took Mulan back to Storybrooke.  

 

I also wonder why Belle didn't tag along to Oz and then Storybrooke?  What if they all have to leave in a frantic rush?  Now, they'd need to lug a sleeping Belle along.  

Edited April 18, 2016 by Camera One

[ElectricBoogaloo]

As soon as Red mentioned Toto being more than just Dorothy's dog, I was convinced that we would learn that Zelena had cursed Dorothy's boyfriend to live in Toto's body or some other such nonsense.

 

I'm so close to being done with this show along with the 16 other shows I've dropped since this past September.

Damn, I'm impressed. I am one of those lame people who will keep watching until the bitter end. It took me FOREVER to finally quit watching Bones and Castle (my Jossverse universe loyalty can be a burden sometimes - now that I don't watch those two shows anymore, I have no regrets). But I have to admit that there were so many bone-headed things in this episode that I found myself thinking, "Why am I still watching this damn show?"

 

First I loathed that Red was Dorothy's TLK. Can we please stop encouraging the stupid idea that you can instantly fall in love with someone who you don't know at all? And if you're going to insist that two people who have known each other for all of, like, four hours are full on True Love, can you at least make sure that one of them doesn't seem like an angry jerk when they meet? Stop perpetuating the myth that being a standoffish jerk is what makes hot strangers fall in love with you.

 

I guess this gives new meaning to the whole "Do you know Dorothy?" thing. I'm sure the writers thought they were being oh so clever.

 

Henry being all "This should make you happy!" to Charming about his new pages, and automatically handing him the one that had Ruby and Dorothy making out first, made me laugh.  Was waiting for Charming to be like "Whoa, Henry!  I get that we have a lack of porn now that our internet connection is gone, but this is going too far!"

Ha, I was thinking the same thing too. He finished "writing" and then ran downstairs yelling, "Grandpa! You're going to want to see this!" and whips out a picture of two chicks kissing. I was like dude, come on, show.

[KingOfHearts]

Alright, I got to watch the Captain Charming scene. It was fine, it was just a little out of place. It was like watching a deleted scene. It's awkward that Charming plays the mature, old-fashioned father-in-law, yet Hook is technically older and wiser than him by far.

[maraleia]

Damn, I'm impressed. I am one of those lame people who will keep watching until the bitter end. It took me FOREVER to finally quit watching Bones and Castle (my Jossverse universe loyalty can be a burden sometimes - now that I don't watch those two shows anymore, I have no regrets). But I have to admit that there were so many bone-headed things in this episode that I found myself thinking, "Why am I still watching this damn show?"

 

Thanks and it's actually 18 shows-

Castle

Blindspot

Quantico

Madam Secretary

The Good Wife

Younger

Pretty Little Liars

Shameless

The 100

Sleepy Hollow

Empire

Scream Queens

Nashville

The Catch

Stitchers

American Horror Story

Cold Justice

Cold Justice: Sex Crimes

 

I guess like this show I became irritated with the lack of proper character representation, at least good story telling decisions and show runners baiting the audience for no reason other than social media clicks and to elevate themselves in the media.

 

Oh and I am considering giving up Faking It, Real Time with Bill Maher and this show.

Edited April 18, 2016 by maraleia

[janett snakehole]

What a disappointment. They said they weren't going to make it a "very special episode" but that's exactly what they did. The fact that they spoke pretty eloquently about their intentions with the LGBTQ storyline and then did exactly what they said they wouldn't makes it even worse. It's one thing to be oblivious. 

 

It's not so much that they changed course and went with Red x Dorothy, it's that there is very little chance they will bring back Mulan again in any plot relevant way so I doubt she's getting a chance at love. So this is twice they've teased a romance for her, only to leave her hanging. It's bad enough that they did a single episode love story for their LGBTQ couple, only to have them most likely fade away to Oz (probably to never be seen again) but it was poorly developed within the time constraint they so stupidly gave themselves. Insta love is pretty normal for this show, but generally these insta love couples are already established from well known fairy tales or disney canon so there's already familiarity with the audience. But if you're introducing a new couple, one that is meant to provide the show with some much needed representation, then you need to do better than that. What exactly do they see in each other? Dorothy was a grumpy brat and I don't see why Red would fall for her. 

 

The way they talked to each other after the tlk sounded kind of delusional. They spoke as if they had been together for years rather than having taken one nice stroll the night before. So a moment that by itself was really nice comes across as silly because they didn't have a relationship, there was no development, so what the hell are they talking about? 

 

The one thing I will give them is they went all out with the kiss. They didn't have a quick peck and then cut away so at least there's that. If only the writing and acting had brought it. 

 

It's crazy how disappointed I can get even though I have such low expectations for this show.