S02.E02: We All Fall Down

[meep.meep]

I'm glad the character was changed to Maori, but I wish they'd have let Cliff Curtis keep his natural accent. Why? Well, there are very, very few Maori-Americans that were born and raised in the US as Travis seems to have been. Like, almost zero. I think that affects the believability of the character. Secondly, CC has a lovely accent that's not difficult to understand. There could easily have been a line last year explaining why he is in the US ("I came here when I was in college and fell in love with the place, so I stayed"), and it would have played up the diversity the show seems to be striving for. Travis having an American accent just seems off to me.

 

The whole point of the ranger recognizing Travis as a Maori was to tie back to their love of native soil.  The ranger felt the same way about his island, and that's why he would never agree to leave.  And why he wouldn't agree to let his children leave.

 

The little girl found the globe, opened it, and took her power pill.  And, I think Nick was definitely looking for drugs for him in his little stroll about the house.

[tvsoothesthespirit]

For me, this episode was better. I actually paid attention and only got up and wandered off a couple of times.

 

Even though the kid thing was cheap, at least I felt something. I found the suicide pill plot device believable. I think in TWD, they've stumbled on a few families and groups that decided to do something like that.

 

I also liked the little bit of conversation about "waiting for this to pass."  I think that even though the military is bombing the cities, since there is still a military, people have some hope that this could end. I don't remember the entire conversation but it was something like Madison recounting to Travis that the dad at the ranger station was waiting for things to pass. She sounded kind of incredulous and Travis said, "well what are we doing?" I think Madison might have an inkling that things might change but the dead and the infection are here to stay.

 

Madison could be such a great character. She does have a sort of steely resolve but then they make her do stupid things and it all just crumbles.

[HighMaintenance]

I don't think Nick was looking for drugs for his own benefit; I think alarms went off in his head when he heard the little kid talking about "wonder pills" (or whatever he called them.) We were being led to believe that he was just searching for something for himself, but in reality he wasn't. (Now just how believable that scenario is is something else.)

It was in all the papers...

 

I think the gunshot we heard was Dad removing himself from the equation...

I gathered he took himself out with the sound of the offscreen gunshot.  However, isn't that pretty shitty on his character's part?  That means he gave no thought to Willa and Mom potentially getting to the 2 brothers and chomping on them.  

 

I noticed that FTWD is like a toned down version of "original recipe" TWD when it comes to the gore.  The scene where Willa bites the Mom was this frenetic camera movement that made it hard to focus on what the hell happened. Yeah, we know Willa chomped on Mom, but TWD would have had some lingering shot of the actual bite and a fountain of blood with tendons hanging out of the kid's mouth.  I imagine the limited budget on this show includes special effects.

 

Since his appearance on Talking Dead, I can't help but notice how asymmetrical Cliff Curtis' face is.  He's got some serious Shannen Doherty face going on there.  He's a 1/2 inch away from being Sloth from the Goonies.  Everytime he's on the screen I have to look for the wonkyeye.

 

I keep hoping that teen angsty Alicia and Chris get pounced upon by a group of walkers while strolling along listening to indie folk/rock songs.  Enough with the spiral heart, Alecia!  You should be worried about where your next meal is coming from or your next drink of potable water, not how you will keep the memory of "art school jock" alive.  I think that's the one thing that bugs.  These people have not really had to struggle to survive yet, their lives are still WAY too comfortable.

[lulee]

My nomination is Los Angeles Refugee Troupe - LART for short.

Or if they don't get their collective act together ... Los Angeles Mobile Escapees.

[eejm]

The whole point of the ranger recognizing Travis as a Maori was to tie back to their love of native soil. The ranger felt the same way about his island, and that's why he would never agree to leave. And why he wouldn't agree to let his children leave.

The little girl found the globe, opened it, and took her power pill. And, I think Nick was definitely looking for drugs for him in his little stroll about the house.

Yeah, I don't see why this couldn't have happened in the same way if Travis had had an accent. The ranger could have asked if Travis was Maori, Travis could have said yes, that he hadn't been back to NZ for a while but returned a few years ago when his grandmother died for her hui and whatnot, and the ranger would have had the same response about being part of the native land. Besides, Travis being American was decided long before this dialogue was written.

My beef wasn't that Travis is a Maori like Cliff Curtis. I'm glad Travis' heritage was changed. I just think it would be more believable if he'd come to the US an adult rather than a native born citizen.

Edited April 18, 2016 by eejm

[Muffyn]

I saw the episode again as I was up late. I will amend my earlier post: I watched the scene carefully, they had candles AND lights on in that scene. I have to wonder why? To set a tone or ambiance? I would think that self-reliant people would be more aware of the risk of running out of supplies and would be more keen about waste. I wish that CDB would have learned more about survival from these people. Staying on the island is a better choice. The fact that I am fixated on a candle vs. electric powered lights tells you how boring this episode was (except for last 2 minutes).

And they had multiple groupings of candles burning.  By the stove there were three plates with 5-7 candles each.  Wasteful much?  In the great pill hunt the lights were on and the windows weren't covered.  I can fanwank that those windows faced the island, not the shore.   I would still expect Mr paranoid prepper to take better precautions about being seen. 

[morgankobi]

I would cheer for this - but solely on the condition the town Strand is herding all of them to happens to be named El Rey.

 

I love you for this. If the zombies don't get them, hopefully the staff there will.

 

"Where are you taking us?

"Mexico."

"What's in Mexico?"

"Mexicans."

Edited April 18, 2016 by morgankobi

[lezlers]

I was so pissed when Maddie  was trying to take those kids and even more pissed at the mother for trying to send them away.  They had a safe place and a viable exit strategy (the pills) for when things would inevitably go sideways.  They can finish out their lives in peace and in familiar territory.  Why would you want your young children to go off to god knows where with a bunch of strangers during the apocalypse?  Maddie had told her it was just as dangerous on the water than on land?  Why would you want your young kids to live out the rest of their (you know it is likely to be) short days in terror without any family or familiarity to comfort them?  Gah.  I wanted to punch the TV.   You're on a boat with no real idea where you're going and limited supplies.  You've got a big ass boat that likely just shot up another boat on your tail.  Why in god's name do you think those kids would be safer with YOU?  I just...gah.  I was so relieved when big bro come to take that poor child back.   Assholes.

 

Also?  I'm kind of a fan of the death pills.  Call me a quitter, but after watching 6 seasons of TWD, I'm pretty sure I'd rather just take the easy way out during the zombie apocalypse than spend a few years in constant terror, starvation and pain just struggling to survive, ultimately dying anyway.  Especially with young children.  Give me your death pills, island guy.  I'd take a quiet life on an island until that's no longer feasible then pop a pill over the alternative any day.

Edited April 18, 2016 by lezlers

[Nashville]

Nashville -- I love that you always look at things from the extremely long-term view. From the nearer term perspective, the mom's conversation with Maddie struck me as insane. Yes, her kids will need to eventually find other people but why should that be any time in the next decade? They are two weeks into the apocalypse, in a relatively out of the way part of the western seaboard with a chance at a sustainable lifestyle. In five years, they can boat off to other places looking for other survivors or maybe some people will come along who want to join them and expand the farm, or start fishing regularly.   None of them know how zombies work yet (we don't either) but who's to say that all the zombies don't die out in five years?  Let her kids become adults and then leave.

Total agreement with all this - which is actually why I was looking at it so long-term; Melissa's actions seemed extremely squirrelly in any short-term context.

As for her diagnosis, MS can be a terrible disease but it's usually not a FAST disease.

This is our sticking point (and one which we'll never resolved, thanks to ALL the unknowns left hanging by the writers): we gave no idea how long Melissa has been diagnosed with MS, how long she went untreated prior to diagnosis, what level MS she was diagnosed with, how far her MS has progressed since, what impact it's already having on her ability to cope with life activities, and how such impact might color Melissa's thinking.

If Melissa has primary-progressive or progressive-relapsing MS, she may already be hanging on to normal function by the slenderest of threads; we may just be lucky in catching her during a remission period. As a parent, this may also give her concern: what happens if she is in a debilitated state or phase, and something happens to her husband - gets munched, falls off a cliff while repairing fence, whatever? Could the kids take care of themselves? Would they have to take care of HER?

Also - we have a pretty good idea of George's view of the little baggie of Final Solution yellowjackets he has hid in his office globe; the kids are already indoctrinated into thinking they're Super Duper Power Pills which will fix everything (which, I suspect, is why Willa was so quick to gobble down a couple). Melissa's views on the matter, however, voiced or not, may be totally different. Melissa may be worried if she passes soon or becomes too debilitated to stop him, George may pull the pill trigger and Heaven's Gate the whole bunch - and she may find that notion totally repugnant on several levels. So that's ANOTHER possible interpretation.

One last note:

Melissa mentioned in conversation with Wisconsin that (a) Melissa used to work as a behavioral health specialist in the LA inner city school system, and (b) she wasn't totally happy with giving up that job to tend peppers on a rock. My initial impression was Melissa felt shed sacrificed her career to follow her husband's; upon reflection, however, I wonder if maybe her unhappiness was because her MS progression forced her to give up working. This could also explain their pastoral life on the island in general. Stress can trigger MS attacks, so they may have been pursuing the most stress-free life they could find.

[TVFan17]

I didn't think it was a terrible episode because at least something was happening, albeit in the last few minutes.  But that doesn't mean that it escaped being ridiculous, because it was certainly ridiculous at times.  My main problems with the episode were what others have mentioned:

 

-- How did the dead mom turn into a zombie and get down the stairs and outside that fast?  Wouldn't the dead mom have kind of been wandering around in a confused state for a minute or two?  How did she know to head right to the pier?

 

-- Where was the little girl zombie?   Did dad kill her?

 

-- What happened to dad?  Did dead mom kill dad?  Or did the little girl kill dad? 

 

-- How did the little girl -- who didn't seem the least bit interested in the globe when Nick put it on the shelf -- manage to stop her drawing session with Nick, get back to the room with the globe, find something to climb up on, open up the globe and swallow at least one suicide pill with no one seeing her at any point?  Did they not check on these young, curious children at all?

 

 

Then, of course, living in Los Angeles and visiting Catalina Island every year, I giggled every time I heard them refer to it as "Catrina Island" -- especially because I could have sworn that someone actually referred to it as Catalina in a previous episode, but I might be wrong on that.  I also giggled that they somehow managed to digitally put a Ferris wheel in the town of Avalon, when there is no such thing there.  Either that or maybe they set up a temporary, easily removable Ferris wheel in town just so they would have it for the distant shot.

 

And that distant shot --- the one of the town of Avalon (the real name, not the show name), with the circular Casino building over to the right, the pier, the crescent-shaped bay and the bogus Ferris wheel -- was not really that distant.  It looked like it was filmed from about a mile or two out of the main town -- and it's walkable.   There's no way people are living in seclusion on the island, without being discovered, unless they are way, way up in the hills OR they go way over to the other side of Catalina -- which is Two Harbors -- and in that case, they wouldn't the have same vantage point or view of the town of Avalon that we were shown!!!   The layout of the town is that it borders the crescent-shaped bay -- that's where all of the restaurants, shops, hotels, boat rentals and other businesses are -- and then the main road ventures off into a less populated area along the ocean, and eventually into the hills.  It's a rock beach, with no vast areas of sand for walking or playing on while the waves lap at your feet.

 

So, basically, I was trying to analyze all of the "Catrina Island" stuff and figure out where some of the scenes were shot, like the one at the beginning with the 2 kids playing.  They must have gone to a different beach somewhere in SoCal to film a few of the shots.

[SoSueMe]

I'm going to try to stick with this for another episode or two, but with GoT coming back next week I can't see many other people doing the same.

Speaking of GoT, it's ironic that Junkie Nick (Frank Dillane) is the son of Stannis Baratheon (Stephen Dillane) in Game of Thrones. Everybody already knew this probably. :)

 

Perhaps they will be competing for screen time.

[NorthstarATL]

Yeah, I don't see why this couldn't have happened in the same way if Travis had had an accent. The ranger could have asked if Travis was Maori, Travis could have said yes, that he hadn't been back to NZ for a while but returned a few years ago when his grandmother died for her hui and whatnot, and the ranger would have had the same response about being part of the native land. Besides, Travis being American was decided long before this dialogue was written.

My beef wasn't that Travis is a Maori like Cliff Curtis. I'm glad Travis' heritage was changed. I just think it would be more believable if he'd come to the US an adult rather than a native born citizen.

You're making an already boring dialogue longer and more complicated, then. I'm not familiar with Mr. Curtis' work, nor with his struggle with managing an accent (I thought he was doing O.K.), but it is a bit unfair to the actor to limit him to only parts written to acknowledge his real life heritage. Plenty of actors/actresses apply for roles that they are willing to stretch themselves to get.

  On the subject of the pills, I am all for making every attempt to stay alive and make a new society, or even just finding a nice cabin and a goat; but, if overrun with walkers or Negans, or whatever, I like the idea of a less painful way out.I hated that our group (and the writers) pushed the idea that this was being forced upon them rather than a backup plan.

[RedheadZombie]

I didn't really like this episode, but it was mostly because I didn't like the survivalist family. 

 

Nick has really grown on me, and the kid playing him has a gift for comedy, IMO.  Is he still limping around from being hit by the car, or am I imagining it? 

 

I think Nick's obvious concern over Chris is sweet.  And Chris seems less resentful of Nick.  I'm convinced that Nick is going to be a hero when it's all over.  But what do I know?

 

I'm right there with you.  For all they know, the pills were a worst case scenario choice ... like, if the rest of your family has died, you're about to be sold into slavery, and you need an out.  Deciding it was a Jonestown scenario was a huge assumption.

 

Yeah, but here's the thing - the world just went to hell.  They were already living a very isolated life.  Where did the dad get those pills?  Most obvious answer:  he had them before the ZA.  Nothing else makes sense.  No internet to order from.  No drug dealer to procure them.  He talked like a bit of a nut job. He talked enough about the pills that his small children knew about them. His wife was desperate to get her children away from him.  She knew what his ultimate solution was, and she knew those plans were formed before the ZA happened.  He wasn't the good guy in this story, IMO.  And neither was his mini-me teenager.

 

Other weird things about the family:  The mother lured them there.  The father made absolute no attempt to warn the mother away from her zombified child.  He was like - "Yeah, leave her alone.  She knows what she's doing".  He also made no move to help her ongoing suffering, as her child continued to eat her throat out.  And although they're very isolated, the little boy had seen enough people dead by gun shot to the head, that he mimicked the look on his little action figures.  Just weird, weird, weird.

 

I get it-- Nick's allergic to shampoo, but can he at least tie that mess back? It's driving me crazy! I'm convinced zombie Nick would have better hair. Doesn't it bug Daniel on a professional level? He's a barber and yet both teenage boys have way too long hair.

 

But are we sure that Nick actually took a shower?  I thought he was wearing a towel because he just changed out of his wet clothing.  I'm beginning to think Nick's hair and the old man clothes are a little inside joke - like Carl's hat.

 

I know Strand is being set up to be the mysterious slightly sinister character but to be honest I'd trust Strand over Daniel any day of the week.  Daniel is becoming more and more scary as time passes.  I'm not surprised dumb ass Maddie thinks Strand is her problem when Daniel would probably kill her in her sleep without thinking twice about it.

 

They're both sinister, no question in my mind.  And maybe I have a weakness for former torturers because I loved Sayid in Lost, but I'm leaning a little toward trusting Daniel more than Strand.  For one thing, we do know he loves his family, and that gives him vulnerability.  But he also showed obvious signs of being disturbed over the little boy drama, whereas Strand was like - put that thing back where you found it!    So he can be just as ruthless as Strand - no question - but I like that he's disturbed by what he sees and does.  But I love both characters, and would like to see the show be shaped more around them as the leads, and the family as supporting characters.

[RedheadZombie]

Speaking of GoT, it's ironic that Junkie Nick (Frank Dillane) is the son of Stannis Baratheon (Stephen Dillane) in Game of Thrones. Everybody already knew this probably. :)

 

Perhaps they will be competing for screen time.

 

Um...... Are you caught up with Game of Thrones?

 

You're making an already boring dialogue longer and more complicated, then. I'm not familiar with Mr. Curtis' work, nor with his struggle with managing an accent (I thought he was doing O.K.), but it is a bit unfair to the actor to limit him to only parts written to acknowledge his real life heritage. Plenty of actors/actresses apply for roles that they are willing to stretch themselves to get.

 

I think his accent is excellent, as are the other non-Americans.  I continue to be amazed that UK and  NZ actors do such amazing American accents - excluding LC's Maggie on TWD.  Kim Dickens, on the other hand, hasn't been able to neutralize her Southern accent. 

[Nashville]

I gathered [George] took himself out with the sound of the offscreen gunshot.  However, isn't that pretty shitty on his character's part?  That means he gave no thought to Willa and Mom potentially getting to the 2 brothers and chomping on them.  

I'm confused: I thought that scene was perfectly straightforward. The "offscreen gunshot" wasn't George shooting himself or anybody else; it was Seth shooting Zombie Melissa after he got Harry distracted and looking away by waving goodbye to the yacht. The very next camera view of the island is of Seth and Harry walking up to their mother's corpse now collapsed on the causeway; I sincerely doubt WalkerMom chose that moment for a quick nap. :)

I keep hoping that teen angsty Alicia and Chris get pounced upon by a group of walkers while strolling along listening to indie folk/rock songs.

Swear to god. I've heard LEOs refer to those earbuds as "self-acquired rape kits" - they render their wearer completely oblivious to any ambient sound around them, and make them stand-out targets for muggers and rapists.

[piequinn35]

^I thought there was another gunshot when they were going to the boat, was I hallucinating? @_@

[ghoulina]

Re: people saying why would the dad choose pills as a way to opt the family out instead of brain trauma to stop them turning, I really think some people wouldn't care what happened to them after they are dead. Most 'normal' wouldn't want to see their relatives/friends turned but if they are all dying together, it won't affect them. This would particularly make sense in this instance since he feels it is Mother Nature doing a course correct.

 

Well, we also need to remember that it wasn't until season 2 that all of CDB found out that "we're all infected". It's quite possible that the dad and his family hadn't yet realized that ANY death results in reanimation, not just death by zombie. Of course, after what happened to the daughter, they know now. 

[BananaRama]

I get it-- Nick's allergic to shampoo, but can he at least tie that mess back? It's driving me crazy! I'm convinced zombie Nick would have better hair. Doesn't it bug Daniel on a professional level? He's a barber and yet both teenage boys have way too long hair.

I chuckled at each of your comments. So true and very funny.

[ghoulina]

^I thought there was another gunshot when they were going to the boat, was I hallucinating? @_@

 

I'd have to watch again (not sure I could torture myself like that), but I think you are right. I thought there was one gunshot before the older Ginger kid came down there. I assumed the father had put down the mother. But apparently he didn't, because next thing you know, she's shambling her way down there. Then there was another shot, when Ginger kid put the mom down. 

[nitrofishblue]

I was hoping that the writing would improve over the break. Sadly that didn't happen. What strikes me about this show so far is the complete lack of enthusiasm from any of the characters. Madison is a total DUD. How could Curtis fall for that wooden stick? His poor late ex-wife was so so much better in all categories. I get the shudders every time they show Madison's profile. Her bottom lip sticks out a tad bit to far and she seems to always have dumped on look on her face.  By this time you would think that the kids would have caught on to the fact that there is something really wrong happening. No, we get two brats that think the world revolves around them so please don't ask them to do or learn anything constructive like fight. Carl in TWD sure learned in a hurry. I think Judith has more smarts than those two.

 

I keep watching for the comedy of it all. I sure as hell don't take it seriously. Ends my Sunday evening with a huge belly laugh.

[BananaRama]

I kind of like the idea of the group docking somewhere new each week and meeting a new group of people or placed in a new situation. The one and done plots sound kind of refreshing instead of doing the same long story over and over like they do on the Walking Dead. I watch the Walking Dead because I like the characters. If someone from FTWD died, I wouldn't miss them. So maybe this show could be about how to survive the ZA and rebuild civilization instead of teaching us that zombies are what we should fear the least and other survivors are what we should fear the most.

Edited April 18, 2016 by BananaRama

[eejm]

You're making an already boring dialogue longer and more complicated, then. I'm not familiar with Mr. Curtis' work, nor with his struggle with managing an accent (I thought he was doing O.K.), but it is a bit unfair to the actor to limit him to only parts written to acknowledge his real life heritage. Plenty of actors/actresses apply for roles that they are willing to stretch themselves to get.

On the subject of the pills, I am all for making every attempt to stay alive and make a new society, or even just finding a nice cabin and a goat; but, if overrun with walkers or Negans, or whatever, I like the idea of a less painful way out.I hated that our group (and the writers) pushed the idea that this was being forced upon them rather than a backup plan.

Where are you getting the idea that I think Cliff Curtis' American accent is bad or that I don't think he's capable of sustaining it? I said nothing of the sort and think his American accent is pretty good. I just wish he was able to keep his natural Kiwi accent because I think it makes more sense that, as a Maori, Travis would be a transplant rather than a native US citizen. I can't see any good reason why this was done from a storyline perspective, unless it was assumed that the audience wouldn't accept a Kiwi character (which is bullshit).

Edited April 18, 2016 by eejm

[kj4ever]

So when the teenage son boarded the boat demanding his brother back, pointing the gun at Madison everyone in my house yelled "shoot her!!" at the same time.

 

Probably not what they were going for with that scene....

[NeedTVRehab]

I was wondering why George didn't invite the group to stay.  You've got Alicia and Ofelia as potential wives to his older son, Travis as a strong helper/provider, Madison as a replacement mother/caretaker, Chris and Nick can help, too (Chris already showed some usefulness as a gate-cleaner).  Daniel and Strand can provide protection and transportation, and the boat is a huge asset.  It just makes more sense to ask them to stay.  Everyone lives and dies on "their family soil" too!  But instead they went with this far-fetched nefarious mass suicide plot which really didn't make sense.

 

 

[Nashville]

I was wondering why George didn't invite the group to stay.  You've got Alicia and Ofelia as potential wives to his older son, Travis as a strong helper/provider, Madison as a replacement mother/caretaker, Chris and Nick can help, too (Chris already showed some usefulness as a gate-cleaner).  Daniel and Strand can provide protection and transportation, and the boat is a huge asset.  It just makes more sense to ask them to stay.  Everyone lives and dies on "their family soil" too!  But instead they went with this far-fetched nefarious mass suicide plot which really didn't make sense.

Only objection I could think of was that they'd need a helluva lot more than a few pepper plants to feed this bunch - but yeah, that thought had crossed my mind as well.

[piequinn35]

Strand had a chance to leave them there, I am really curious why he needs them ???

and do they have enough gas to go to Mexico?

[ghoulina]

Strand had a chance to leave them there, I am really curious why he needs them ???

and do they have enough gas to go to Mexico?

 

Daniel was left behind to watch him, so that he wouldn't leave. But it does seem like he at least wanted Nick with him. I hope one day we'll find out why, but this being fTWD, I'm not going to hold my breath. 

[SoSueMe]

Um...... Are you caught up with Game of Thrones?

 

 

 

Hah! Nope, Planning on binge watching Season 5 this week, watchathon, lol.

Can't wait to see how it happens :) 

[grumpypanda]

Speaking of GoT, it's ironic that Junkie Nick (Frank Dillane) is the son of Stannis Baratheon (Stephen Dillane) in Game of Thrones. Everybody already knew this probably. :)

Perhaps they will be competing for screen time.

I just binge watched every season of GoT and I'm completely confused by what you wrote here. Edited April 18, 2016 by grumpypanda

[SoSueMe]

I just binge watched every season of GoT and I'm completely confused by what you wrote here.

The two actors are father and son. Junkie Nick on FTWD and Stannis Baratheon on GoT.

 

Of course turns out that I was a little behind on Season 5. Maybe that's adding to your confusion, lol.

 

P.S. You binged watched all the way from season 1?  Good job!

[riverheightsnancy]

I am curious what Strand could have to do that is so top secret that he has to keep everyone in the dark while the entire West coast has been blown up by the military. Even if it is a drug cartel, doesn't anyone (Strand) get that you cannot escape the "virus"? Who will they sell drugs to? Money no longer matters.  I too, am wondering about gas or fuel for the yacht. I also do not understand why Camp Tidal Wave didn't search those other parts of the island for anything that they can take. Some cuter, age appropriate clothes for Nick would be nice, but hey, he seriously doesn't give two f**ks about how he looks. I kind of like that about him. He was good to the kids too (until he showed Willa where the super magic pills were). 

 

Fun Fact from TTD: The young actor who played Willa was Pete's daughter Tammy in Mad Men. 

[Raven1707]

Well, Nick was at least wearing a fresh, blue polo-style shirt with "Abigail" embroidered on it with his old-man jacket and pants. Baby steps!

[cmfran]

I was so pissed when Maddie  was trying to take those kids and even more pissed at the mother for trying to send them away.  They had a safe place and a viable exit strategy (the pills) for when things would inevitably go sideways.  They can finish out their lives in peace and in familiar territory.  Why would you want your young children to go off to god knows where with a bunch of strangers during the apocalypse?  Maddie had told her it was just as dangerous on the water than on land?  Why would you want your young kids to live out the rest of their (you know it is likely to be) short days in terror without any family or familiarity to comfort them?  Gah.  I wanted to punch the TV.   You're on a boat with no real idea where you're going and limited supplies.  You've got a big ass boat that likely just shot up another boat on your tail.  Why in god's name do you think those kids would be safer with YOU?  I just...gah.  I was so relieved when big bro come to take that poor child back.   Assholes.

 

Also?  I'm kind of a fan of the death pills.  Call me a quitter, but after watching 6 seasons of TWD, I'm pretty sure I'd rather just take the easy way out during the zombie apocalypse than spend a few years in constant terror, starvation and pain just struggling to survive, ultimately dying anyway.  Especially with young children.  Give me your death pills, island guy.  I'd take a quiet life on an island until that's no longer feasible then pop a pill over the alternative any day.

 

My wife said the same thing about taking the easy way out. She'll sometimes halfway watch TWD in the background while I watch, and she always yells out "why would any of these people keep trying so hard to stay alive - the world is awful!" She definitely has a point.

 

Also, the actor who plays Strand looks so much like the guy who played Tyreese on TWD. Especially when he's wearing the wool cap. 

[maystone]

I was wondering why George didn't invite the group to stay.  You've got Alicia and Ofelia as potential wives to his older son, Travis as a strong helper/provider, Madison as a replacement mother/caretaker, Chris and Nick can help, too (Chris already showed some usefulness as a gate-cleaner).  Daniel and Strand can provide protection and transportation, and the boat is a huge asset.  It just makes more sense to ask them to stay.  Everyone lives and dies on "their family soil" too!  But instead they went with this far-fetched nefarious mass suicide plot which really didn't make sense.

 

My impression was that George didn't see their collective futures as being all that long term. I can't remember if he actually said the words, but my distinct impression was that he saw their deaths as being inevitable and rather soonish. He's not suicidal or homicidal, he's just pragmatic and prepared. He did say that he considered this to be a correction course by Nature, and he said it without rancor. He also pointed out the several hundred undead who so far hadn't sniffed them out, but who would take down that fencing when they finally made their way over. The overriding concern of his appeared to be that he and his family should die on their (tribal or ancestral) land. And, only partially kidding, I suspect part of why he didn't invite Cliff and the Boatniks to stay was because he thought Cliff should be hustling his butt back to NZ and the land of his own people.

 

Cliff definitely did not get George. I loved that exchange when Cliff is protesting that unlike George, he wants to survive, so if he lived here he'd be doing something. And Cliff responds, "I am doing something. I'm fixing the fence."  Which is just the perfect response, in my opinion. I really liked George. You don't give in to despair, but you also don't pretend that the situation isn't inevitably terminal. My guess is that he's showed the younger kids the Power Pills and built that little myth about how it was going to keep them safe forever (which was kind of true, metaphorically.), no doubt so that when the time came, the kids would willingly swallow whatever poison was in them.

 

I can understand why his wife (Melissa?) wanted to send the two youngest off on the boat, too. She didn't know what was out there, but she sure as hell knew what was waiting for them if they stayed. She interviewed Maddie, she didn't just go down to the beach and toss the kids at a passing boat.  I felt sorry for her on many levels, and I think she loved her children very much.

 

Seth definitely took down his zombified mom on the dock. I'm glad that Chris saw that go down rather than turning away like Alicia was urging him to do. I think that he's finally going to get a handle on what a mercy Cliff provided for Liza. I think this is the first time that Chris has seen someone he's known die and turn. I don't think that he had that concrete an idea of what was going to happen to his mom once she died. Intellectually maybe, but not that reality.

Edited April 18, 2016 by maystone

[lezlers]

My wife said the same thing about taking the easy way out. She'll sometimes halfway watch TWD in the background while I watch, and she always yells out "why would any of these people keep trying so hard to stay alive - the world is awful!" She definitely has a point.

 

Also, the actor who plays Strand looks so much like the guy who played Tyreese on TWD. Especially when he's wearing the wool cap. 

 

Right?  I mean, holy hell.  You're living in a PRISON, constantly terrified that you're gonna die.  You think you find safety and end up almost slaughtered at Camp Dinner Bell.  The minute you find any sort of temporary safety you either get taken over by flesh eating monsters or human psychopaths.  GIVE ME THE DEATH PILL.

[phoenix780]

There is just so much wrong with this show that I feel silly even mentioning something specific. But anyway, sounds like Strand is speaking to some unsavory criminal type on that phone, a criminal co-conspirator perhaps. But that begs the question, criminality in the ZA? Is that even possible? What is criminal in a survive at all costs world?

I think it's more morality than criminality, but I'm sure they'll beat it to death one way or another this season.  On another note, how awesome for him that his criminal co-conspirator also survived.  They said last night this wasn't The Rapture, but...maybe it was, and everyone left is either amoral (thinking about morality in a functional society, not the ZA) or borderline.

 

Then, of course, living in Los Angeles and visiting Catalina Island every year, I giggled every time I heard them refer to it as "Catrina Island" -- especially because I could have sworn that someone actually referred to it as Catalina in a previous episode, but I might be wrong on that.  I also giggled that they somehow managed to digitally put a Ferris wheel in the town of Avalon, when there is no such thing there.  Either that or maybe they set up a temporary, easily removable Ferris wheel in town just so they would have it for the distant shot.

 

I thought they mentioned Catalina Island specifically, too, and also found it funny when it was renamed.  Is it trademarked?  Did they not want to be associated with the show?

 

Also mentioned upthread- these people show zero concern for anyone outside their immediate LA-based family.  I still find that weird, since they're of varying backgrounds and LA is one of those cities people leave hometowns for.  Nothing phases them all that much, and maybe that's supposed to communicate that they're in shock.  And to be fair we saw a couple scenes where they got over their neighbors (not that I expect people in LA to care about neighbors).  But man, to have no family or friends you're even mildly concerned about?  That's kind of interesting, especially since it could give some direction to their wandering around the Pacific.

 

Question- if the military was still functional and organized enough to firebomb cities with some kind of coordination...how do they finally collapse? I hope they run into a new character who can tell us what happened. 

[HighMaintenance]

I was wondering the same thing.  If everything along the coast has been destroyed, where in the hell did all the military go?  Did they just keep flying until they crashed?  Did they meet up in "the desert"?  If there's no safe haven, what was the purpose of the military even bombing everything?  

[morgankobi]

Question- if the military was still functional and organized enough to firebomb cities with some kind of coordination...how do they finally collapse? I hope they run into a new character who can tell us what happened. 

Lord knows they won't show us.

[Peanut]

I would've stayed on the island.  I think there was a chance to get something going there, and I'd rather that than drown or be eaten by sharks.  Or floating zombies.

 

Maybe the military is in Nebraska, at SAC Headquarters. Sorry, Cold War kid here, at STRATCOM.  Wasn't that the rumored safe space in TWD?

 

Re: Jonestown. About two years ago, when I taught at-risk kids, some of the things I could get them to actually read were accounts of Jonestown and similar places.  Maybe it's macabre, but as long as they were reading and then discussing (eagerly!) what they'd read, I couldn't really shoot that down.  So it wouldn't surprise me that druggie boy was familiar with Jonestown.

[oakville]

I'm confused: I thought that scene was perfectly straightforward. The "offscreen gunshot" wasn't George shooting himself or anybody else; it was Seth shooting Zombie Melissa after he got Harry distracted and looking away by waving goodbye to the yacht. The very next camera view of the island is of Seth and Harry walking up to their mother's corpse now collapsed on the causeway; I sincerely doubt WalkerMom chose that moment for a quick nap. :)

Swear to god. I've heard LEOs refer to those earbuds as "self-acquired rape kits" - they render their wearer completely oblivious to any ambient sound around them, and make them stand-out targets for muggers and rapists.

Agreed. I don't think George is dead. On the other hand, how did Melissa escape the room after turning ? Wouldn't George have put her down after being bitten by Willa?

I would've stayed on the island.  I think there was a chance to get something going there, and I'd rather that than drown or be eaten by sharks.  Or floating zombies.

 

Maybe the military is in Nebraska, at SAC Headquarters. Sorry, Cold War kid here, at STRATCOM.  Wasn't that the rumored safe space in TWD?

 

Re: Jonestown. About two years ago, when I taught at-risk kids, some of the things I could get them to actually read were accounts of Jonestown and similar places.  Maybe it's macabre, but as long as they were reading and then discussing (eagerly!) what they'd read, I couldn't really shoot that down.  So it wouldn't surprise me that druggie boy was familiar with Jonestown.

 

I would love to see a few episodes of Travis & family meeting up with military units. I would hope that some parts of the military decided not to bomb civilian areas. There are lots of supplies in the cities. The walkers could be cleared out in a systematic faction.

I was wondering the same thing.  If everything along the coast has been destroyed, where in the hell did all the military go?  Did they just keep flying until they crashed?  Did they meet up in "the desert"?  If there's no safe haven, what was the purpose of the military even bombing everything?  

 

Didn't the military doctor who befriended Liza from last season mention that Edwards Air Force base in California was still operating?

 

It's still baffling how the virus spread so quickly yet Travis's family is still intact. If it was airborne, wouldn't someone in Travis's family get sick?

I think it's more morality than criminality, but I'm sure they'll beat it to death one way or another this season.  On another note, how awesome for him that his criminal co-conspirator also survived.  They said last night this wasn't The Rapture, but...maybe it was, and everyone left is either amoral (thinking about morality in a functional society, not the ZA) or borderline.

 

I thought they mentioned Catalina Island specifically, too, and also found it funny when it was renamed.  Is it trademarked?  Did they not want to be associated with the show?

 

Also mentioned upthread- these people show zero concern for anyone outside their immediate LA-based family.  I still find that weird, since they're of varying backgrounds and LA is one of those cities people leave hometowns for.  Nothing phases them all that much, and maybe that's supposed to communicate that they're in shock.  And to be fair we saw a couple scenes where they got over their neighbors (not that I expect people in LA to care about neighbors).  But man, to have no family or friends you're even mildly concerned about?  That's kind of interesting, especially since it could give some direction to their wandering around the Pacific.

 

Question- if the military was still functional and organized enough to firebomb cities with some kind of coordination...how do they finally collapse? I hope they run into a new character who can tell us what happened. 

 

Agreed. No one mentioned co workers, friends or relatives. I don't agree with firebombing all the cities.

[Muffyn]

Daniel was left behind to watch him, so that he wouldn't leave. But it does seem like he at least wanted Nick with him. I hope one day we'll find out why, but this being fTWD, I'm not going to hold my breath. 

I am proposing a theory.  Strand is taking the yacht to a person who has a fetish of sniffing the filthy hair of unwashed teenagers. 

[mightysparrow]

I have to admit that I'm hanging in with this show because I'm hoping that Strand IS heading to Mexico.  And in the ultimate 'ripped from the headlines' plot twist, it turns out that Mexico is infection-free and the Mexican government has not only sealed the borders but are building a fence to keep all those poxy Americans out, forcing the Ship of Fools to wander aimlessly about trying to find a way in.

[Nashville]

I have to admit that I'm hanging in with this show because I'm hoping that Strand IS heading to Mexico.  And in the ultimate 'ripped from the headlines' plot twist, it turns out that Mexico is infection-free and the Mexican government has not only sealed the borders but are building a fence to keep all those poxy Americans out, forcing the Ship of Fools to wander aimlessly about trying to find a way in.

Donald Trump won the Mexican presidential election? Man, he's good.

[Scaeva]

I tried to give this series a second chance, but two episodes in to the second season it doesn't appear to have improved significantly from last. Strand is the only reason at this point to keep tuning in. 

 

On that note I hope the writers realize he's a lot more interesting than the great majority of the main characters, and they don't throw him away in a disposable villain role.

[Bunnyhop]

Perhaps they have a generator ? They don't want to use up all the gasoline.

I gathered that they did not want to attract attention to themselves by using lights at night.  The Strand crew knew there were survivors at the station because Mrs. George "accidentally" turned on a light...twice.  I found myself wondering whether they had a warehouse filled with candles.

[AbFabGab]

It's strange that there is enough military still functioning that they want to bomb every major city in North America.

 

Didn't someone say the border with Mexico was closed? Is the Mexican govt still operating? Does that mean that Mexico is still relatively safe compared to the USA?

 

I'm sure we'll get a line or two next episode to let us know. For all of the budget limitations, they could have had this on a naval vessel or some kind of command center base and had a much more compelling story.

[Haleth]

I'm interested enough to DVR and watch if I find time, but I agree with all the problems noted by posters.  It's hard to imagine the writers want us to relate to Cliff and Maddie, the show's leads, when they keep doing such stupid stuff.  I did crack up with Strand's lines ("What did you do now, Maddie?" and "Put that back!") like he was talking to a 5yo.  How can we empathize with lead characters who are so silly?  

 

As for finding future mates for the kids or pairing up the remaining teenagers, why would anyone want to bring a child into this world?  (Looking at you, Maggie and Glenn.)  Maybe I'm on Team George in thinking it's best to let the human race become extinct.

 

On a shallow note, wasn't Alicia's hair much darker in season 1?  When did she find time to hop into a drug store for some hair dye?

[RustbeltWriter]

This. So much this. For the umpteenth episode, we hear about towns being destroyed and see nothing of it actually happening, of the people making those decisions. Since the military/government is making most of these calls, it would have been better to pick a family where at least one of the people was active duty military/government so that we could see those decisions playing out, instead of getting a line here and there about "yup, LA's gone. San Diego is flambeed too." They could still get a guy/gal trying to save their family and perhaps some random people along the way, but it would make a much more interesting story to have that person aware of certain things that couldn't be shared with everyone and the despair as they realize that this is some apocalyptic event that won't be easy to recover from. If they put Madison in that role it might also account for her one facial expression. It would also show how things are failing at the local level, then the state level, then at the national level. That's a backstory. Whatever the writers think they're doing here is not. 

 

How bad was the outbreak when the government decided to set up camps? Where had it spread when the dead started overtaking people beyond the containment zones? What did things look like when they decided to just bomb everything? Where are the people dropping bombs? Are they getting the okay for this from DC or just saying screw it and doing this on their own? So many angles they could've taken, and they give us the Angst Boat with such fun onboard entertainment as "How can someone be fresh out of the shower and still look so dirty?" and "Pity: Party of 1 hosted by cruise director Alicia!"

 

I'm going to try to stick with this for another episode or two, but with GoT coming back next week I can't see many other people doing the same.

 

This has been my complaint ever since Chris sat on that roof and said "It's been nine days since the power went off." We've already been shown what happens after society falls. This show was supposed to be about that fall. Now we're just getting little drips and drabs of info, like Ranger George telling us that cities are being bombed and his ham radio pals are falling off the air. Everything is just advancing too quickly to the setting we have with TWD.

 

This episode was better than than the first. I really enjoyed Daniel hovering over Strand "like the specter of death". At  the very least, Strand's odd phone call sets up some kind of plot that doesn't involve family drama.

[mightysparrow]

I'm interested enough to DVR and watch if I find time, but I agree with all the problems noted by posters.  It's hard to imagine the writers want us to relate to Cliff and Maddie, the show's leads, when they keep doing such stupid stuff.  I did crack up with Strand's lines ("What did you do now, Maddie?" and "Put that back!") like he was talking to a 5yo.  How can we empathize with lead characters who are so silly?  

 

As for finding future mates for the kids or pairing up the remaining teenagers, why would anyone want to bring a child into this world?  (Looking at you, Maggie and Glenn.)  Maybe I'm on Team George in thinking it's best to let the human race become extinct.

 

On a shallow note, wasn't Alicia's hair much darker in season 1?  When did she find time to hop into a drug store for some hair dye?

 

Alicia probably found the same supply of Clairol that Daryl comes across later.

[oakville]

I'm sure we'll get a line or two next episode to let us know. For all of the budget limitations, they could have had this on a naval vessel or some kind of command center base and had a much more compelling story.

Ha!. I hope they run into the crew from the Nathan James on The Last Ship!.