S02.E18: Dead Beat / S02.E19: Salivation Army

[chaifan]

I had a hard time telling if the zombies that recognized Major were angry at him or not.  But then I was thinking that Natalie knew what he was doing and why, and that Major was actually saving all of them.  So I wonder if Natalie filled everyone in on Major and that he's actually a good guy. 

 

You would think Viv would have some sort of clean up squat at her disposal to save Clive from having to explain all those dead bodies.  Of course, there's the security guard who saw it all and survived, so you have to wonder if that will be mentioned in next season's premiere. 

[NUguy514]

What a finale! I'm so glad Clive finally knows, as I spent much of the first hour squawking at Liv/my television to tell Clive. I'm sad that his knowing led to Dale's dumping him, but he was in an impossible situation there.

I was really sad that they killed Drake, as I liked him and Liv and he was hot, but I understand why it happened. I'm also a little sad Rita's gone, but at least she got revenge on her shitty father before Major took her out (in a totally bad-ass way); I don't know how she would have fit into the plot long-term, so I guess she kind of had to go.

Major's "Sup?" and shit-eating grin upon seeing Ravi and Peyton were my favorite things Robert Buckley's ever done. I laughed so hard.

Very, very excited for next season!!

[Bruinsfan]

I actually prefer Major's bromance with Ravi to his relationship with Liv or any of the other characters. Turns out Robert Buckley has been wasted as the female lead's hot boytoy for years, when his talent lies in playing the quirky roommate/best buddy. Who knew?

[LoneHaranguer]

 

How exactly is a "zombie homeland" supposed to work, Viv? Seems to me like sort of a vampire problem: what exactly are the homeland zombies supposed to eat? And even more of a problem than the vampire analogue actually because removing a brain does have the side effect of fatality.

One possibility is to come up with a treatment that would prevent the zombie virus from eating up whatever it is that zombies have to keep getting from brains. Another would be to develop a medical supplement for whatever is being lost. Worst case they could start growing human brains. The technology exists.

[RachelKM]

One possibility is to come up with a treatment that would prevent the zombie virus from eating up whatever it is that zombies have to keep getting from brains. Another would be to develop a medical supplement for whatever is being lost. Worst case they could start growing human brains. The technology exists.

I cannot put into words the joy this post gives me.  I am utterly delighted that you thought this out.  

 

This puts me to mind.... I wonder about this future Zombie community's perspective on Soylent Green.  I feel like it could be billed as a Sci-Fi Comedy.

[Minneapple]

I actually prefer Major's bromance with Ravi to his relationship with Liv or any of the other characters. Turns out Robert Buckley has been wasted as the female lead's hot boytoy for years, when his talent lies in playing the quirky roommate/best buddy. Who knew?

I actually really like Major and Liv as friends (and Major and Ravi, of course). They keep writing these great boyfriends for Liv and killing them off. Stop it! I still miss Lowell, sniff. 

 

I have to think Natalie will show up sometime next season. It's like Chekov's gun, right? You don't show a previously of a character, make a point of asking about her, and then...oh, she went off with those guys. 

[xqueenfrostine]

My one quibble is "full-on zombie mode" is supposedly brought on by extreme stress/adrenaline. It's the reason Lowell stopped performing-- I'm wondering why we didn't see Liv or Blaine, or Major go full-Romero the lock-in and the shootout were pretty stressful situations. Except when Liv told Clive and she brought it on, and was able to control it.  

 

Yeah they haven't been as consistent with this as they should have been.  Blaine is (as far as we know) still human, so it wasn't a surprise that he didn't go into Full Zombie Mode.  With Liv and Major, maybe being on Janko's mercenary brain kept them calm enough in the middle of a fight to keep from going full zombie?  But with Don E, I have no such fanwank explanation.  He should have gone Full Zombie Mode after taking 3 bullets to the chest.  

 

I had a hard time telling if the zombies that recognized Major were angry at him or not.  But then I was thinking that Natalie knew what he was doing and why, and that Major was actually saving all of them.  So I wonder if Natalie filled everyone in on Major and that he's actually a good guy. 

 

Didn't the DA also know what Major was up to?  I assumed they must have talked since Major allowed him to write his own "suicide" note.  

[Ruby25]

Don E is still alive, right?

[RachelKM]

Don E is still alive, right?

Almost certainly.  He was shot only in the chest, rather than the head.  

[elle]

I just realized that the title of the first part "Dead Beat" may have been a nod to Liv and Major being on "drummer's brain".

[ElectricBoogaloo]

That sort of conflict is one reason dating a co-worker is problematic, but I don't think Dale was wrong to dump Clive. He completely wrecked her case, and he probably got her in trouble with her superior. It was a pretty big torpedoing.

 

 

Agreed. And it would have been bad enough if Clive had just told the judge and/or the DA about Dale's witness problem and that some of their evidence might have have been tampered with, but Clive also leaked that knowledge to Major's defense attorney. The former could be written off as Clive doing his job in making sure their case against Major was clean, but tipping off the defense attorney would be seen as grossly unprofessional is any context. Add that to the fact that Clive did this completely behind Dale's back without giving her a head's up, then no I don't think Dale was wrong at all to see this as a personal betrayal. It *was* a personal betrayal. Clive having the best reasons for torching their cases against Major doesn't change that.

And then on top of all that, Clive couldn't even offer Dale a reasonable explanation. When she confronted him, his answer was basically, "Uh...sorry?" Again, I totally respect that he didn't share Liv and Major's zombie secret with Dale, but when you look at what happened from her point of view it was just a total dick move for absolutely no good reason.

[CletusMusashi]

So, wait.. was Glenn trapped in the elevator?

[Julia]

I don't know. From Dale's perspective, the cop she's seeing, who has a universally bad reputation among his coworkers, used confidential information to blow her case against a serial killer who happened to be a member of his social circle. I don't know if it's so much that he acted like a dick as that it looks an awful lot like he's a bad cop and he let his friend get away with murder.

[The Wild Sow]

 

 

 

Don E is still alive, right?

 

Almost certainly.  He was shot only in the chest, rather than the head.

 

Well, sure.  He totally Bre'r Rabbit in the Briar Patch'ed Mr. Boss's hitman (whose name escapes me, sorry 'bout that.)  "Oh, please, please, Sir...shoot me in the head!  Please don't shoot me in the chest or stomach!  I can't stand pain!  Please please please....."  Thereby ensuring he'd be shot anywhere BUT the head!

 

But with Don E, I have no such fanwank explanation.  He should have gone Full Zombie Mode after taking 3 bullets to the chest.

Naw, because:  a) He planned it that way & was prepared for it; and b) the hitman left without sticking around to witness the aftermath.

 

And if I didn't say so before -- That. Was. Awesome!  Now THAT'S the way to do a season finale!  

Take that, Sleepy Hollow :-(

[xqueenfrostine]

Naw, because:  a) He planned it that way & was prepared for it; and b) the hitman left without sticking around to witness the aftermath.

 

I don't think it would matter that he planned it that way.  If going full on zombie mode is tied to adrenaline spikes, as was established last season, then getting shot in the chest would bring on the Zombie regardless of whether or not you planned to get shot.  That's just how the body reacts to trauma.  And we saw Don E.'s face after the shooter walked away.  His eyes never went dark.  

[Brian Cronin]

 

One possibility is to come up with a treatment that would prevent the zombie virus from eating up whatever it is that zombies have to keep getting from brains. Another would be to develop a medical supplement for whatever is being lost. Worst case they could start growing human brains. The technology exists.

 

Yep. And notice how they wiped out the rampaging zombies when they saw them. They clearly plan on doing this thing very carefully, essentially trying to use the zombie virus to make them, in effect, the "chosen people." So they certainly don't plan on making a ton of zombies - it's more about optimizing the zombies they already have.

[Cthulhudrew]

So Viv and the Fillmore Graves troop are going to have to corner the Utopium market now that they have Max Rager, right? Is this going to lead to a gang war with Mr. Boss? And what are they going to do when they find out that they need the "special cut" that only Preach knew how to make?

 

And I wish I had a twitter so that I could hashtag #wheresnatalie all over the place.

[planetofapes]

I almost stopped watching when Rob Thomas popped up. I thought if zombies think Matchbox 20 is fucking cool then we definitely need to eradicate them from the face of the Earth. Imagine how smiley I was when I saw the annoying little shit dead in a pool of his own blood. Heh. Thank you izombie writers! NOICE. I hope you did not pay that guy more than $9.95 to appear on the show because TRUST ME his appearance fee is not worth more than that.

[beeblebrox]

The thing that I liked the best about the episode is that it blew up the show's premise by talking about taking the zombie thing to greater heights, but at the same time, they did it in such a way that the show really doesn't have to change THAT much, as obviously Vivian's plans will be slowly implemented, giving Liv and her pals time to stop her. Clive knowing really won't change their working arrangement all that much either. It's a brilliant example of the illusion of change.

 

Speaking of Vivian, I'm pumped about her being on the show as I'm a big Andrea Savage fan. Everyone has to go watch the film Sleeping With Other People just for her and Jason Mantzoukas. Heck, you can even skip the entire movie and just watch them riff in the closing credits. It's worth the rental fee just for that. He's an improv legend and she more than hangs with him. Stunning comedy work. 

 

She's also fantastic in the Hotwives series on Hulu which is loaded with great comediennes. It was weird hearing her not talk in a fake new money Russian accent for once. I'm excited to see what she's going to do with the role of Viv. She's perfect for this series. 

[dubbel zout]

I forgot to mention one of my favorite Vaughn DuClark lines was when he came face to face with Clive, Major, and Liv at the party and called the latter two Daft Punk. Hee. RIP, Vaughn. I'll miss your exceptionally hilariously douchey self.

Edited April 14, 2016 by dubbel zout

[maxineofarc]

I actually really like Major and Liv as friends (and Major and Ravi, of course). They keep writing these great boyfriends for Liv and killing them off. Stop it! I still miss Lowell, sniff.

Me too. And Drake's death was so abrupt- it's nice he was able to do a heroic sacrifice at least, but I kept thinking "that's it? Did the actor have another job or something?" I really don't see any chemistry between Liv and Major compared to her other (headshot) love interests.

Don E. doesn't have the kind of smarts he needs to run the Lucky U business, but he has the wits to stay alive. Nice job!

[questionfear]

I don't think it would matter that he planned it that way.  If going full on zombie mode is tied to adrenaline spikes, as was established last season, then getting shot in the chest would bring on the Zombie regardless of whether or not you planned to get shot.  That's just how the body reacts to trauma.  And we saw Don E.'s face after the shooter walked away.  His eyes never went dark.  

 

I wonder how much of that was just a way to cut the SFX budget a bit. We only saw Don E for a second and we didn't see him get back up, so they probably figured they could save the zombie eye-and-makeup costs and have him face down on the floor. 

[Bruinsfan]

One thing I missed, where did the tainted utopium that transformed the lab workers come from? The last I heard the only samples of it were what Ravi had retrieved from a couple of buried drug mules. Or does Super-MaxRager® only need regular utopium to turn people into zombies?

[RachelKM]

One thing I missed, where did the tainted utopium that transformed the lab workers come from? The last I heard the only samples of it were what Ravi had retrieved from a couple of buried drug mules. Or does Super-MaxRager® only need regular utopium to turn people into zombies?

I was really quick, but I believe there was line from the employee that handed out the samples (the same guy Major was trying to find to use to get in the basement lab) that believe stated that he snatched from the lab's sample of the utopium used at the boat party massacre. The implication was that Max Rager somehow collected samples when it happened and has had them all along.  But if I'm right about that, it begs the question of why the guy didn't know it was related to the Zombie stuff or, if he didn't specifically know about the zombies - though it seemed he should- why he didn't at least know the samples were suspect and the subject of secret testing.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

iZombie's Stakes Rise
And they didn't even need a barbed wire baseball bat!

[fastiller]

I understand that asking a 'real-world' question about a show with Zombies may be odd, but: since neither Major nor Ravi were home when the FBI entered to perform the search, could the case against Major have been tossed on a technicality?

[swanjun]

I wonder if they are setting up Mr. Boss as the counterpoint to Viv's plans. He said something like "I own this town," while she wants to make it the capital of Zombie Nation. So, you have murderous thugs up against potentially murderous zombies in that scenario.

Yes, exactly. There was completely a point to the whole Mr. Boss thing -- it's just setting up season 3 and not immediate events. :)

[dubbel zout]

since neither Major nor Ravi were home when the FBI entered to perform the search, could the case against Major have been tossed on a technicality?

I think as long as there was a valid search warrant, it didn't matter if anyone was home.

[MDKNIGHT]

I have more of a problem with how torpedoing one case made the other case against Major go away. I'm also pretty sure (just from watching Law and Order though) that if the police or prosecution find exculpatory evidence they HAVE to hand it over to the defense so Clive and his now ex girlfriend would have been breaking the law if they HADN'T admitted teen girl couldn't have seen anything because of the shrubbery. BTW I kind of rolled my eyes at mom and the police being so gullible. Kid blaming her bad behavior including partying all night on allegedly witnessing a body being dragged out instead of acting scared and withdrawn, yeah, OK. It isn't like a teen has ever lied to get out of trouble.

Didn't like Drake as much as Lowell but still sad for Liv's sake. Like many I thought it was too bad they killed off Vaughn's daughter. I enjoyed her snark and did feel a tiny bit bad for her that her dad was such a complete and total disappointment. Even Sadham Hussien had some love for his sons, this guy couldn't even hold a frickin door open to save his daughter from being mauled by zombies. I wish we could have seen his being eaten more SLOWLY. He really deserved it.

Can not believe they actually killed off Rob Thomas playing Rob Thomas. Only time I've seen something like that is when they killed off Mickey Dolenz playing Mickey Dolenz in a made for SciFi movie. That however was a one off. This means that we will be returning to an alternate reality where Rob Thomas is dead. I find this hysterical especially since it is the doing of the writer Rob Thomas and needed singer Rob Thomas to cooperate. Can honestly say I never would have guessed they'd do it.

Even with the tech as mentioned above I'm still having trouble with how New Zombieland is supposed to work. I am for the time being going to hope that what this means is Viv and her goons are delusional and THINK they can pull this off just like those wacka doos in the real world who every so often think they can unite the middle states into a Whites Only country that sedes from the US. Neither is actually a realistic plan. To have enough fire power to take over the US you need numbers but predators always have to be in much smaller numbers than prey for them to be sustained. You can't have more, or even equal numbers of wolves to numbers of deer. Doesn't work. A small cabal of immortal zombies who are on the downlow is possible but that wouldn't be a zombie nation and if you are found out you can be wiped out fairly easily.

Ravi deserves some happiness. If Peyton wants Blaine it just shows she has terrible taste and I kind of hope Blaine breaks her heart (but not that he reverts and eats her). I rolled my eyes when she slept with Blaine back when she thought he was a witness because that was unprofessional and dumb and I'm afraid my opinion of her hasn't gotten better. I find it interesting that Blaine thus far is acting like a decent person because even before he became a zombie he was a self centered evil guy so I guess the show is going with the it is nurture not nature argument for why people are evil. He can't remember how the nanny and his father treated him so he's nice. We'll see how this plays out.

People mention Blaine's dad not being seen in the finale but last I remember seeing him weren't Blaine's guys torturing him to get him to re-record his will in Blaine's favor? Is there some reason we should believe the didn't rekill him and get rid of the body?

I'm holding out hope yet a DIFFERENT faction have Natalie and she'll pop later. Alternately Viv's people may have her and be using her and later Major and Viv will have to ask for her help against Viv.

[Julia]

I'm pretty sure that the exculpatory evidence thing only comes into play at trial.

[kieyra]

I struggle with the lack of internal zombie consistency a lot.

Liv always has bad zombie yarn wig hair.

Rita got instant bad zombie wig hair.

Blaine always has bleached zombie hair either way.

Sometimes the male love interests (Major and Drake) have a dignified streak, but then we're supposed to believe they duck out in the middle of their complicated lives to dye their hair.

Captured zombies mostly weren't gray.

And I'm always confused by Vaughn's dignified gray streak.

I lost track of the fact that Don E was a zombie because he has no outward signifiers.

It's becoming more of a problem as they have multiple characters who have been zombie/non-zombie and back again. The visual cues are important, you can't just have someone hand-wave dyeing their hair off-screen.

I'm sure they're on a shoestring budget and the bleach is a drag for the actors, but they could get some wigs for the guys.

Ok, but I just heard the "rid me of this meddlesome Jason Priestly type" Henry II shoutout, all is forgiven.

[LoneHaranguer]

 

And notice how they wiped out the rampaging zombies when they saw them. They clearly plan on doing this thing very carefully, essentially trying to use the zombie virus to make them, in effect, the "chosen people." So they certainly don't plan on making a ton of zombies - it's more about optimizing the zombies they already have.

Since the rampaging horde was Vaughn's employees and friends, I suspect they would have been mowed down regardless. Viv got the secret basement zombie research she wanted, and presumably has some brains on tap to use it.

[AudienceofOne]

You guys, iZombie killed Rob Thomas. Which is the most meta this meta show has ever gotten. Ever. It's amazing. In fact, the running Rob Thomas gag remains fantastic and was the highlight of this episode. This was a fantastic finale overall, although I'm not sure how I feel about the setup for season 3.

 

And there was a moment during Vaughn's monologuing when the show lost me. As random bad guy monologues are wont to do. He did know the zombie apocalypse was happening above his head, right? I mean, why bother with the torture porn?

 

I was really quick, but I believe there was line from the employee that handed out the samples (the same guy Major was trying to find to use to get in the basement lab) that believe stated that he snatched from the lab's sample of the utopium used at the boat party massacre. ...it begs the question of why the guy didn't know it was related to the Zombie stuff or, if he didn't specifically know about the zombies

 

He did know. He did it anyway. He found the samples in the back of a cupboard or something and they deliberately took it with the Max Rager to see what would happen. Which is mindblowingly dumb but maybe we were supposed to think it was a kind of a "scientific curiosity gone too far" thing.

 

The one thing I felt was missing from this episode was the emotional beat of the Chaos Killer's "victims" realising Major was trying to save them. I really wanted that moment when they were woken up and had some time to come to terms with what Major has been dealing with all season. This finale was very much action and I would have liked some emotional payoff too.

 

But overall, very good two parter. Glad Clive knows. Glad the zombies aren't taking over. But a little nervous about the 'zombie nation' idea.

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

iZombie's Stakes Rise
And they didn't even need a barbed wire baseball bat!

 

As we discovered last episode... Vaughn's people had found Major's storage unit. And so it's no surprise they'd cleaned it out by the time Liv and Ravi got there.

[diebartdie]

(WARNING! This post may contain loose associations, name dropping and a high level of weirdness. Or not, depends on where I go with it. Anyway, buckle in.)

 

Like many if you I see posting in this forum, I came to iZombie due to my love of the zombie genre. I was hesitant though, the idea of a lighthearted, fun, funny zombie show just didnt seem appealing to me plus when I read that these zombies would be brain eaters I almost said NOPE. See, Im way more Night of the Living Dead than I am Return of the Living Dead (if that distinction is lost on you.....I bet you're here for the Veronica Mars connection, not the zombies). I was also a bit put off by the idea of zombies with normal lives but then again, In The Flesh is one of my favorite zombie anythings so what the hey, right?

 

So I gave it a swirl.....and kept tuning in, week after week. I kinda fell in love with this sweet, gentle show! Love poor Liv, ADORE awesome Ravi and as of the second season, I really started pulling for Major. Damn what a tight spot he was in! Detective Babeneaux just kept rolling with the wackiness that is Liv on ____brain which was almost always hilarious and Blain, man he's the villain that just keeps giving isnt he? On the other hand, Vaughn Du Clarke was manic fratboy writ LARGE and I loved that. So yeah, loving the show even though it wasnt violent like my other zombie show (the walking dead), wasnt deeply political/emotional like my precious In The Flesh (R.I.P. cut short in your prime morgeous show), wasnt full of body horror like The Strain (not a zombie show per se but still...)

 

And then the season 2 finale happened.

 

Gone (for 2 hours anyway) most of the lightheartedness, gone most of the goofiness (but still rich with humor!), gone the PG rating too! Suddenly there's gore! There's violence! There real horror! Pathos! Sorrow! Holyfuck the zombie apocalypse was unfolding for real! WOW!!!! Holyshit this finale was AMAZING and literally a billion times more satisfying than the finale for TWD. I mean that finale was great right up until the final minutes but THIS finale was AWESOME from top to bottom, from east to west from soup to nuts I couldnt even believe what I was seeing.

 

Hats off to you iZombie for showing how to bring the funny while also being terrifying. Zombie effects as good as TWD. Action pieces as good as TWD. Heart and soul in abundance. Just masterful and perfect. Right now, I love iZombie more than TWD and I never in a million years would have seen that coming! I hope in season 3 they tone it back down though, the intensity of this finale was great for a finale but wouldnt fit with the established show universe. Who knows how season 3 will go but Im here for the ride (if it gets renewed....does anyone know if it did?)

[questionfear]

Yes, it was renewed for Season 3!

[RachelKM]

He did know. He did it anyway. He found the samples in the back of a cupboard or something and they deliberately took it with the Max Rager to see what would happen. Which is mindblowingly dumb but maybe we were supposed to think it was a kind of a "scientific curiosity gone too far" thing.

Whoa, shit.  I somehow missed that the taking it with the SuperMax was a deliberate test.  That is insane.  

[Bruinsfan]

Ditto, those people were literally too stupid to live.

 

Sometimes the male love interests (Major and Drake) have a dignified streak, but then we're supposed to believe they duck out in the middle of their complicated lives to dye their hair.

If they're taking time to bathe regularly it only takes an extra 10 minutes or so to apply Just for Men beforehand, and that stuff is available in every corner drugstore in America.

[Chicago Redshirt]

One thing I missed, where did the tainted utopium that transformed the lab workers come from? The last I heard the only samples of it were what Ravi had retrieved from a couple of buried drug mules. Or does Super-MaxRager® only need regular utopium to turn people into zombies?

 

The show didn't say. But apparently Max Rager realized there was a connection to Tainted Utopium + Max Rager = Zombies and acquired the utopium from the boat party massacre. Given the amount of money and power MR has, let's say that they got it off the cops when the evidence was no longer needed. (Or had someone sneak some out even when it was).

 

I understand that asking a 'real-world' question about a show with Zombies may be odd, but: since neither Major nor Ravi were home when the FBI entered to perform the search, could the case against Major have been tossed on a technicality?

 

The warrant authorizes the cops to be at Major's place and conduct a search. It doesn't matter if Major was there, Ravi was there, or no one was there at the time they did the search.

 

I have more of a problem with how torpedoing one case made the other case against Major go away. I'm also pretty sure (just from watching Law and Order though) that if the police or prosecution find exculpatory evidence they HAVE to hand it over to the defense so Clive and his now ex girlfriend would have been breaking the law if they HADN'T admitted teen girl couldn't have seen anything because of the shrubbery. BTW I kind of rolled my eyes at mom and the police being so gullible. Kid blaming her bad behavior including partying all night on allegedly witnessing a body being dragged out instead of acting scared and withdrawn, yeah, OK. It isn't like a teen has ever lied to get out of trouble.

Didn't like Drake as much as Lowell but still sad for Liv's sake. Like many I thought it was too bad they killed off Vaughn's daughter. I enjoyed her snark and did feel a tiny bit bad for her that her dad was such a complete and total disappointment. Even Sadham Hussien had some love for his sons, this guy couldn't even hold a frickin door open to save his daughter from being mauled by zombies. I wish we could have seen his being eaten more SLOWLY. He really deserved it.

Can not believe they actually killed off Rob Thomas playing Rob Thomas. Only time I've seen something like that is when they killed off Mickey Dolenz playing Mickey Dolenz in a made for SciFi movie. That however was a one off. This means that we will be returning to an alternate reality where Rob Thomas is dead. I find this hysterical especially since it is the doing of the writer Rob Thomas and needed singer Rob Thomas to cooperate. Can honestly say I never would have guessed they'd do it.

Even with the tech as mentioned above I'm still having trouble with how New Zombieland is supposed to work. I am for the time being going to hope that what this means is Viv and her goons are delusional and THINK they can pull this off just like those wacka doos in the real world who every so often think they can unite the middle states into a Whites Only country that sedes from the US. Neither is actually a realistic plan. To have enough fire power to take over the US you need numbers but predators always have to be in much smaller numbers than prey for them to be sustained. You can't have more, or even equal numbers of wolves to numbers of deer. Doesn't work. A small cabal of immortal zombies who are on the downlow is possible but that wouldn't be a zombie nation and if you are found out you can be wiped out fairly easily.

 

The case vs. Major for the Meat Cute Massacre was being handled by Clive. Clive makes his case entirely on the word of the arms dealer who said he sold Major weapons that were of the exact same type as were used in the MCM, and apparently some forensics that ID'ed Major's piss. I'm sure Clive can find all sorts of ways to scuttle his own case.

 

As to the exculpatory evidence, there's an obligation to turn it over, sure. But there's no obligation to turn it over this early and there's no obligation to highlight it and exactly how it is exculpatory. The prosecutors could have just stuck the photo showing that there was a tree branch that would have blocked kid's view of the alleged kidnapping with a dozen other photos from crime scenes and met their duty to turn it over. As for the teen's excuse, different people react to trauma different ways. I too would expect that someone who saw a murder would be scared and withdrawn, it's not inconceivable that someone would start drinking and using drugs or blowing off their responsibilities after being like "What does this all matter anyway when we live in a world where you can randomly get abducted and killed?"

 

VDC had a choice: try to give Rita the extra few seconds to escape and risk both of them being killed or writing Rita off and saving himself. Obviously, for VDC it was a simple choice. But I definitely could see reasonable, non-evil people making the same choice (albeit not basically gloating about having had to make it.)

 

"The one...the only...Rob Thomas!" was my favorite part of that.

 

With money and power, it's possible to rewrite the rules. I could see a zombie coming out in Seattle, and it being liberal enough to be open to zombie rights to a certain extent. Not necessarily looking forward to the show being a Hipster version of True Blood but with zombies instead of vamps, and with only broadcast amounts of sex and violence, if that's the way this is shaping up.

[Zaku]

How often should a zombie eat brains to stay lucid? I remember something like a brain every month? Is it correct?

I'm trying to do a little math here...

[kieyra]

Ditto, those people were literally too stupid to live.

 

If they're taking time to bathe regularly it only takes an extra 10 minutes or so to apply Just for Men beforehand, and that stuff is available in every corner drugstore in America.

 

The fact that it's real-world 'plausible' doesn't make the lack of consistency not a problem. Why doesn't Liv dye HER hair? Because the show needs us to remember she's a zombie. Why doesn't it care if we can remember the zombie status of other characters? Why is Rita's hair already pure white, but many of the thawed zombies still appeared to be normal brunettes? The fact that I have to ask these questions, whether or not they can be fanwanked, is the problem. It's not just nitpicking, it's an important visual cue and reminder of the current stakes for each character and the people around them.

 

And if Liv, who dresses carefully otherwise, doesn't bother to 'pass' with dye and tanning, it makes it seem odd that other people act like outward zombie appearance is a huge secret to be kept. 

 

(I've possibly been spoiled lately by Vince Gilligan-level attention to visual details on BCS, but this has always bugged me with iZombie.)

Edited April 15, 2016 by kieyra

[Bruinsfan]

I think Liv, given her job as  medical examiner who's around corpses all day, can get people to pass off her appearance as unusual hair and makeup choices by someone in a morbid profession that might tend toward a Goth sense of style. That's probably not going to fly for personal trainers and undercover police officers, or for fiftysomething dads.

[RachelKM]

I got the impression that Liz never bothered to change her appearance because 1) she was kind of depressed and didn't even have the motivation to look into mitigating the effect being a zombie had on her life and 2) she sort of used the change in appearance to keep her family and Major at bay by making them think it was part of her overall change as a person (which it was, but less from attitude and more from actual physical change).  Then afterward, when she began to come out of her funk, as noted by Bruinsfan, as a medical examiner she didn't really need to change it and everyone had kinda gotten used to it as part of her persona. 

 

As for the thawed out zombies, they are of course people who've taken steps to pass as the whole reason they were on the list for Major to go after was that MR and VdC had created a list of potential zombies by cross referencing spay tanning, hair dye, and hot sauce purchases.  So those zombies being normal hair colored is to be expected.

 

It may very well be that not everyone goes full white, some just getting a shock streak. Jackie from season 1 only had streaks and I think the makeup artist that Blaine turned when he reverted from the first cure also ended up with just a streak.  But both of those we saw right after turning.  Maybe it takes days/weeks to go full white. I don't think we know enough to say what is inconsistent because 90% of the zombies we see are those who take pains to hide it and have dyed their hair and gotten tans.   There may be some who, like Liv, have decided to go with the new look, but we really haven't seen much of that and as a result don't really know what happened to their hair. 

Edited April 18, 2016 by RachelKM

[Zaku]

Ok just some quick calculations.

 

The mortality rate for the 2006-2010 period in Seattle is 639.3 per 100,000 (source). The total population of Seattle is 608,660, so we can espect 324 deaths every month, more or less.

 

So the Seattle area can sustain a little bit more than 300 zombies, that seems to me a dangerous low number.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Zaku

[LoneHaranguer]

 

I somehow missed that the taking it with the SuperMax was a deliberate test.  That is insane.

Not if they wanted to become zombies and expected that things would go the same way as for those like Liv and Blaine (if it worked at all); doesn't say much for their regard for anyone who might become a meal. It might have worked if they didn't get shot so soon.

[RachelKM]

Not if they wanted to become zombies and expected that things would go the same way as for those like Liv and Blaine (if it worked at all); doesn't say much for their regard for anyone who might become a meal. It might have worked if they didn't get shot so soon.

Well now I just think their shitty scientists.  Everyone knows that 1) you should never be part of your own experiments, 2) a single test result is not a good predictor of subsequent results and you should always be prepared for variance, and 3) it appeared they were using the new SuperMax rather than the previous formula which meant they weren't even replicating the original conditions. 

[AudienceofOne]

I don't think they wanted to become permanent zombies. I mean, it wasn't clear. But I think they believed the zombism was going to be like a cool high or something. It was an odd narrative choice for me (or it would be if this show wasn't so delightfully offbeat) as to me it looked more like a bunch of highschool students in the stairwell of their school going:

"Heroin? Cool! What could go wrong?"

"I heard this stuff could kill you."

"Won't know till we try!"

Except they were adult scientists. Albeit geek adult scientists who thought their secret bunker lab was the coolest.

 

 

Like many if you I see posting in this forum, I came to iZombie due to my love of the zombie genre. I was hesitant though, the idea of a lighthearted, fun, funny zombie show just didnt seem appealing to me plus when I read that these zombies would be brain eaters I almost said NOPE. See, Im way more Night of the Living Dead than I am Return of the Living Dead (if that distinction is lost on you.....I bet you're here for the Veronica Mars connection, not the zombies).

 

Yeah I admit. I hate the zombie genre. Not because there's something inherently wrong with it. But because it's been done to death (pun totally intended). And because... this is where I get like, deep, you guys... it's been used in the last 10 years (but sparked by 911) as a representation of a particular brand of American exceptionalism and existential angst over the country's place in the world. If nations had a psyche then the United States sees itself as the last of humanity besieged by faceless hordes about to descend on them and tear them apart. It's no coincidence that the zombie genre took off after the disaster of the Iraq war and the destruction of the twin towers. And combined with the nation's weird relationship to gun culture, it's also no surprise we got bombarded with cultural product about a small, plucky band of heavily-armed survivors fighting off the brainless hordes. Again. And again. And again.

 

And again.

 

And again.

 

Combine it with the "new frontier" road trip aspect (the survivors have to fight across the continent to find themselves a place to call home in the wilderness, mirroring Westerns and the whole 'taming of the continent' mythos), and you have a rather boring and disturbing (to me) analysis of the American psyche - Westerns, paternalism and patriarchy, gun rights and fear of invasion - rather than something I actively enjoy watching. I remember watching Zombieland (which was hilarious I might add) and at the end saying to my brother, "There are Americans who really see the world like that. Claiming the continent while being besieged by hordes of mindless non-humans and fighting them off with their large armaments. Go NRA."

 

So what I loved about this was that it is the total antithesis of that. Zombies aren't just non-humans you can justify slaughtering by the thousands. (Addition to above - excuse to show extreme violence against other people without moral consequences). Zombies in this were and are people.

 

So I've been dreading the inevitable (?) zombie apocalypse because it's so antithetical to what the show seemed to be about.

 

As a consequence, I found a lot of the zombie attack scenes tiresome and worrying. I actually think the show did quite well to show it while (a) maintaining the humanity of them and (b) limiting the fallout. But I personally would have liked more emotional resonance from what happened this season than the zombie slaughter/bad guy monologuing.

 

Not that I don't love this show. I do. And I am looking forward to Season 3. I'm just concerned this "nation within a nation" thing could easily fall into the above aspects of the genre. We're being infiltrated by zombies (Muslims). And they want to take over. And no normal American is safe.

[diebartdie]

Yeah I admit. I hate the zombie genre. Not because there's something inherently wrong with it. But because it's been done to death (pun totally intended). And because... this is where I get like, deep, you guys... it's been used in the last 10 years (but sparked by 911) as a representation of a particular brand of American exceptionalism and existential angst over the country's place in the world. If nations had a psyche then the United States sees itself as the last of humanity besieged by faceless hordes about to descend on them and tear them apart. It's no coincidence that the zombie genre took off after the disaster of the Iraq war and the destruction of the twin towers. And combined with the nation's weird relationship to gun culture, it's also no surprise we got bombarded with cultural product about a small, plucky band of heavily-armed survivors fighting off the brainless hordes. Again. And again. And again.

 

And again.

 

And again.

 

Combine it with the "new frontier" road trip aspect (the survivors have to fight across the continent to find themselves a place to call home in the wilderness, mirroring Westerns and the whole 'taming of the continent' mythos), and you have a rather boring and disturbing (to me) analysis of the American psyche - Westerns, paternalism and patriarchy, gun rights and fear of invasion - rather than something I actively enjoy watching. I remember watching Zombieland (which was hilarious I might add) and at the end saying to my brother, "There are Americans who really see the world like that. Claiming the continent while being besieged by hordes of mindless non-humans and fighting them off with their large armaments. Go NRA."

Um ok you've put a damn serious dent in my love of the genre (I saw the first Night of the Living Dead with my dad when I was 11, we were first in line to see the original Dawn of the Dead, I was 12 (1978), I come from the Romero POV so Ive always seen zombies as representing mindless consumption....) but BUT damittohell, this post is exactly why I come to this forum and get into these interesting conversations. I find myself agreeing with all that you say. I feel a bit shook to be honest. Anyway, I just added you as a friend, I'm keeping tabs on you now :D Really grateful to your thoughtful post. I may try to find a way to quote you somewhere on the TWD forum ;^)

[Julia]

The thing about the Max Rager scientists, though, is that they were Max Rager scientists. They actually seeded in the episode when we met Lowell (dammit sniff I miss you, Bradley James) that Max Rager had a corporate culture of dimwitted thrill-seeking extreme bro-itude and substance abuse.

[Bruinsfan]

I suppose it fits with Vaughn having the zombie lab outfitted like a combo game show and petting zoo. Anyone in their right mind would have had that shit on lockdown like the CDC has Smallpox and Ebola samples, but Max Rager's protocols were always one careless janitor away from the Zombie Apocalypse.

[kieyra]

Um ok you've put a damn serious dent in my love of the genre (I saw the first Night of the Living Dead with my dad when I was 11, we were first in line to see the original Dawn of the Dead, I was 12 (1978), I come from the Romero POV so Ive always seen zombies as representing mindless consumption....) but BUT damittohell, this post is exactly why I come to this forum and get into these interesting conversations. I find myself agreeing with all that you say. I feel a bit shook to be honest. Anyway, I just added you as a friend, I'm keeping tabs on you now :D Really grateful to your thoughtful post. I may try to find a way to quote you somewhere on the TWD forum ;^)

That poster managed to put gracefully into words something that's been scaring me about the genre (and America's utter *obsession* with TWD) for a while, but which I never would have been able to articulate.