S04.E18: Eleven-Fifty-Nine

[TwistedandBored]

It was really a boring episode. 

 

They should have setup the death from DD better than they did. They should had Laurel be the one to put him in prison without help from dad. Instead DD killed Laurel because her father snitched on him. They should have had Lance by her bedside instead of Oliver and her last words should have been anything else than what we got. 

I hated that they had Diggle who was hesitant to trust his brother be this stupid about him. This is another lesson for Oliver who pushed Diggle to trust his brother just because he is blood. 

I thought the "him" was Malcolm but they are still pushing him being good father crap. 

 

There was a lot of things they should have done but didn't which is soo Arrow.

[apinknightmare]

So, do you guys think that Laurel's getting the Tommy treatment on purpose, or did they accidentally make this THAT shitty? 

 

Tommy tells Laurel he loves her with his dying breath, she goes off and carries a torch for Oliver. Laurel tells Oliver he's the love of her life with her dying breath, and he's still totes in love with Felicity? 

[Password]

It amazes me that Laurel can remember anything positive about her relationship with Oliver. Sounds like she believed her lie.

[Advance35]

3. I HATE that they had Laurel say that Oliver was the love of her life.  They could have made it a little, tiny bit better if she had said "you were the love of my life -- I never let myself find another one. I'm glad you have Felicity" or something like that. But they needed to recognize that no matter how much Laurel once loved Oliver he was grossly bad to her. Why does this show want to have Laurel forget that?

 

I think it was recognized how bad the relationship was.  But however horrible he was to her, Laurel loved him a great deal.  She didn't have the opportunity to find that depth of emotion with anyone else.    Maybe she would have some day but that wasn't an option.    But I think this pairing is a disaster even in the Comic Books so Oliver being a cad where Laurel is concerned didn't really throw me for a loop.

 

Plenty of people fall in love with people they shouldn't.   I found that aspect of her demise believable, easier to accept because I've never been a Laurel fan, but believable.

[BkWurm1]

That once she said it I could believe it almost made it worse. I have been blaming that vibe on the actress but now I have to consider it in show canon. Laurel WAS thinking of him that way.

[Morrigan2575]

So, do you guys think that Laurel's getting the Tommy treatment on purpose, or did they accidentally make this THAT shitty? 

 

Tommy tells Laurel he loves her with his dying breath, she goes off and carries a torch for Oliver. Laurel tells Oliver he's the love of her life with her dying breath, and he's still totes in love with Felicity? 

I think that's what KC wanted and they gave it to her in her final scene.  I doubt it's anything more than that, really.  KC has advocated that Oliver is the love of Laurel's life and that sometimes we don't always end up with our soulmates, etc.  I'm guessing they gave her a script which had exactly what she's been claiming for 2+ years now and thought she'd be happy.  For all I know she asked for something along those lines (she has stated in multiple interviews that she will discuss and fight over lines for Laurel).  I have no reason to doubt that this was either done as a parting gift to KC or at the behest of KC.

[BkWurm1]

I think that's what KC wanted and they gave it to her in her final scene.  I doubt it's anything more than that, really.  KC has advocated that Oliver is the love of Laurel's life and that sometimes we don't always end up with our soulmates, etc.  I'm guessing they gave her a script which had exactly what she's been claiming for 2+ years now and thought she'd be happy.  For all I know she asked for something along those lines (she has stated in multiple interviews that she will discuss and fight over lines for Laurel).  I have no reason to doubt that this was either done as a parting gift to KC or at the behest of KC.

I was wondering the opposite if they had fed her the line about people not always ending up with their soulmate so that she would say it in interviews so when they did kill her, it all lined up.

[SonofaBiscuit]

Unfortunately a few people are reporting even though some of the posts aren't offensive. And the mods are backed up with a lot of posts

 

I think that people report posts for a lot more reasons than finding them offensive, or whatever.  Personally, I will report people if they have a rude tone, if they are going completely off topic, if the same few people endlessly argue back and forth, if spoilers are posted places they're not supposed to be, etc.  I kind of thought that we were always encouraged to do that instead of replying to problematic posts?

 

Anyways, I'm curious to see if this show can get back to the one I used to love in late season one/early season two.  I'm ready for the next chapter.  

 

Laurel's death sends a powerful message not only on Arrow, but on LoT and The Flash as well.  It doesn't matter how "iconic" the character supposedly is, or how safe you think they are...they can still die.

 

 

[TwistedandBored]

So, do you guys think that Laurel's getting the Tommy treatment on purpose, or did they accidentally make this THAT shitty? 

 

 

Tommy got a great send off. He died a hero on the ground saving the woman he loved. I said he had one of the best send off in the show. 

[apinknightmare]

I think that's what KC wanted and they gave it to her in her final scene.  I doubt it's anything more than that, really. 

 

Yeah, I suppose that could be it. I know it's her head canon, but I did wonder if it was done intentionally, especially since Oliver didn't reciprocate - at all - anything that she told him. And he didn't even say "we love you" along with everyone else. 

[Morrigan2575]

I was wondering the opposite if they had fed her the line about people not always ending up with their soulmate so that she would say it in interviews so when they did kill her, it all lined up.

Since she was saying that since S3, I kind of doubt it.

Laurel's death sends a powerful message not only on Arrow, but on LoT and The Flash as well.  It doesn't matter how "iconic" the character supposedly is, or how safe you think they are...they can still die.

Did people not get that exact memo when they killed off Hawkman on LoT?  The Hawks both male and female are much bigger comicbook characters than Black Canary.

[BkWurm1]

I don't mean them knowing way back in season three they would kill her, but it being the company line (soul mates don't always end up together) they gave to her to explain her role now that it had changed. KC seemed to cling to the idea that Olicity would only be a bump in the road. I swear it was only late season three that she suddenly and abruptly changed her tune and stopped saying the same thing that she'd said since before the show started.

Edited April 7, 2016 by BkWurm1

[blixie]

 

There was a lot of things they should have done but didn't which is soo Arrow.

 

Ha Truth, it could be their tag line, and it made me think the Arrow writing staff is Greg from Crazy Ex Girlfriend:

 

 

 

Sure, I could get an A if I wanted to get an A, But who cares about an A?

I don’t. I don’t care.

Although I could have made that grade if I did care,

But I don’t.

But I could if I wanted to!

[dtissagirl]

After next week I hope I never have to see them write for Laurel again.

 

^^ This. Thank you for putting it so eloquently.

[AyChihuahua]

And if they had a proper story arc, maybe they could have given KC a heads up that this was where they wanted to go with her character? Instead they sideline her character, and just before she has a lot of hard scenes they call her in and tell her that her character is going to die. Are you saying that is right? Katie herself says how hard it was for her because she had a lot of memorizing to do with the court scenes and that it become all the more harder for her to focus. If that's true, that's a really shitty way to treat her. Though I am not surprised.

 

...

 

  Actors tend to be professional. Game of Thrones actors know ahead of time that they will be killed off and yet deliver some of the best performances there is. This is a flimsy excuse to not give an actor a heads up and let them know what's coming up for their character. Bad writing and shitty treatment of the actress.

You yourself said that KC admitted she couldn't memorize her lines for scenes bc she was so upset after they told her. If they'd told her before the season began, she quite possibly would have had problems memorizing lines ALL SEASON LONG.

[Jediknight]

Kind of grossed me out that dad's old enemy waited a hundred years and then got with Ra's kid.  That said, I wouldn't rule it out.  No one talks about Talia.  Perhaps she was cut out of Ra's life for choosing love over blood.  Maybe that perceived betrayal was what sent Ra's to crazy town (since he seemed like a nice well adjusted killer in the 1960's)

He went crazy because Bruce Wayne turned him down.  Oliver was just a rebound, and Nyssa didn't have the heart to tell him.

 

Ruve isn't Talia, because Nyssa would have said something about it.  And speaking of Nyssa, like I said, let her take the role of Black Canary.  Sara could still be traveling through time after Laurel's funeral, and honor Laurel by being the White Canary, while Nyssa is honoring both Lances by being Black Canary.

[Sakura12]

I think if they let Nyssa take it she'd be Jade Canary. 

[Delphi]

I really wish I had gotten a look at this thread before our hardworking mods got around to hiding everything. I bet it was a trainwreck. Also were already at seven pages. Wow.

[Primetimer]

Apparently, being put in prison isn't enough to shut Damien Darhk down completely.

Read the story

[Morrigan2575]

I really wish I had gotten a look at this thread before our hardworking mods got around to hiding everything. I bet it was a trainwreck. Also were already at seven pages. Wow.

I don't think they hid anything, or most of the posts.  From what I understand once a post is reported it gets automatically hidden by the system.  But I could have that one wrong.

[bijoux]

3. I HATE that they had Laurel say that Oliver was the love of her life.  They could have made it a little, tiny bit better if she had said "you were the love of my life -- I never let myself find another one. I'm glad you have Felicity" or something like that. But they needed to recognize that no matter how much Laurel once loved Oliver he was grossly bad to her. Why does this show want to have Laurel forget that?

I have no more likes at my disposal, so a hearty yes.

 

Tommy got a great send off. He died a hero on the ground saving the woman he loved. I said he had one of the best send off in the show. 

Plus, there was Laurel clawing at Lance and proclaiming her love for Tommy. As much as I get pangs over Tommy to this day, I do think his death was meaningful and moved the story.

 

Ruve isn't Talia, because Nyssa would have said something about it.  And speaking of Nyssa, like I said, let her take the role of Black Canary.  Sara could still be traveling through time after Laurel's funeral, and honor Laurel by being the White Canary, while Nyssa is honoring both Lances by being Black Canary.

I don't think she's Talia, but does Nyssa know anything about Ruve? Malcolm only aligned himself with the Darhks after the League was disbanded. Nyssa hasn't been on the show since then as far as I recall.

[SonofaBiscuit]

Did people not get that exact memo when they killed off Hawkman on LoT?  The Hawks both male and female are much bigger comicbook characters than Black Canary.

 

I don't think the memo got through, no.  Laurel has always held this special, "untouchable" status.  I think the fact that the EPs kept her around for 87 episodes, even though she was frequently removed from main storylines, left out of important show moments, and not allowed to interact with the show's title character led to a false sense of security that she would always be safe.

[Sakura12]

Since Nyssa thought she was the Heir to the Demon and Talia's the older sister. Something made Ra's disown Talia or take her out of the running as Heir. I could see running away with Darkh being that reason. Even though I don't think she's Talia. If she was it would be interesting since she knew Sara Lance as her father's star student that he released in 1960. That would've made her offer to Laurel more intriguing. Had Laurel not died so lamely and quickly after the offer was made.

[verbalme]

I was spoiled so I was quite excited to see how they were going to write the death scene.

 

The fight between Diggle and Oliver really struck a nerve with Oliver, especially the evolution bit (OOOH BURN!)

 

I am an Olicity fan and I have to admit, the bed scene with Team Arrow made me cry , because I could feel the love and respect they had for her (even though I didn't).

 

On hindsight, they didn't have to include the Oliver/Laurel scene. As I was watching it, I swear I could feel the tug of war between MG and Keto, in terms of how they wanted to write that scene. So there I am, crying, praying that Lance will get to see his daughter, maybe racing against time (really in the moment) and then the whole "I'm happy for you and Felicity...I hope you get back to her" and the "You are the love of my life"... "why are you saying this why now?" crap happened. And she was alive (at that point) and then she convulsed and died.

 

Seriously, a tug of war -"She should die here, surrounded by her friends! But wait, we have to make it more dramatic, she deserves a moment to confess to Oliver her true feelings! After EIGHT YEARS!"

 

Yikes. That took me out of the moment completely. And that pissed me off, because I wanted to be upset that Lance couldn't see his daughter for the last time, not be upset at how bad the writing was.

Edited April 7, 2016 by verbalme

[Password]

That took me out of the moment completely. And that pissed me off...how bad the writing was.

This so much. I legit paused the episode and went to get coffee in a fit of rage. Agh.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Password

[Sakura12]

As a Sara fan I did like them admitting that vigilante life was Sara's life, not Laurel's. She was never destined for the mask. She had her own path and choose to take her sisters path. She had no training or real motivation, she just wanted to make herself feel better. 

 

From a writing standpoint you could tell the writers enjoyed writing for Sara over Laurel. Sara got the tragic heroes origin story, the superior fighting skills, the LOA connection, the fight scene and connection with the Huntress (if they want to bring her back), the wayward orphan named Sin, and now her own team. She may not be named Black Canary but she sure has the most connections to comic Black Canary. Laurel's rise to Black Canary was only because of her name. They didn't even bother to make her rise compelling or interesting. 

 

I never recognized Laurel as the Black Canary in any variation or form. I don't find Laurel's death as any kind of disservice to Comic Black Canary. Comic Black Canary has nothing in common with Laurel. Laurel was just a character that happened to share the same name. 

[TVHappy9463]

David Ramsey got me, his tears in the hall when he realized Andy's part and his unwillingness to see it. Then his tears as Laurel died, and Paul Blackthorne, man those men got me.  

 

I am pretty sure you have to have skin contact with the pads for the AED to work, you can't go thru the gown.  

 

Did Malcolm get a new hand, or a prosthetic? 

 

I can't put my finger on it, but this show is missing something, I am not sure what, it seems so detached. It has no heart, like The Flash. I think adding Curtis as a regular is going to further degrade the dynamics,  

 

The one thing about The Flash and Buffy, no matter how many characters you added the core was always strong. Barry, Cisco, Caitlyn, Buffy, Willow and Xander, the problem is SA, EBR, and DR have't gelled in a while and they need to get that back. 

[BkWurm1]

They are back to their old pattern (the writers) of splitting the team and fracturing their bond. Til the core gets back to normal, the team will not function at full strength.

[dtissagirl]

And yet, this was my favorite visual in the entire episode:

 

[looptab]

I want to rewatch the episode, but I can't bring myself to do it. I don't think I can get through that again, giggles notwithstanding. I feel like I'd cringe even more this time around. And usually I can manage whatever this show throws at me, I mean, I have actually rewatched 408.

[Angel12d]

I will definitely not be watching this episode ever again. 

 

 

And yet, this was my favorite visual in the entire episode:

 

 

Mine too. That was perfect and feels very intentional? OTA FOR LIFE. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

I want to watch the episode again too but it was so boring and some stuff so cringeworthy I can't bring myself to do it.

[Sakura12]

I've seen the complaints of the stunts going downhill and wow have they ever. Oliver barely looks he can move properly with those stupid turtle shells, Laurel just swings a stick around then gets covered by the other stunt double so you can't see her, the Thea and Malcolm fight looked way too staged. I don't know how Diggle or DR can see out that "mask" to shoot anyone. 

 

LoT manages to have some cool stunts, mostly because CL does almost all of them. The last episode had the team working together showcasing all of their skills, no one stood around on the outside watching. Does LoT have a different head stunt coordinator? Someone who is better at group stunts? 

Edited April 7, 2016 by Sakura12

[SmallScreenDiva]

The problem is SA, EBR, and DR have't gelled in a while and they need to get that back. 

 

It's not that they haven't gelled, IMO. It's that the writers seem to have this refusal to put them together for longer than 1 minute. The few scenes we've had of them together crackle because of the chemistry. Even when they're at odds, the scenes are just crunchy good. But we haven't had those in a good long while and, yes, Arrow definitely suffers for it.

 

I am glad Felicity was not in that episode much last night. But it also showed me that Arrow without Felicity is not something I'd be interested in watching for too long. When she arrived with Digg and Thea at the hospital (did they go and pick her up from PT?), it just lifted my heart. It was like, "Oh hey, there you are, I've missed you so much." That GIF of the original trio, Digg and Felicity facing Oliver, is definitely one of my favorite frames from the episode. 

[mrspidey]

Boy, I sure hope the Trickster didn't get out again during this prison riot. 

[statsgirl]

Random thoughts:

When Thea was frustrated that she couldn't stop Malcolm from taking the idol, she went out in to the streets to hit things. Awwwww, like brother, like sister.

 

I still don't understand why Malcolm didn't take the idol's power for himself. Reiter sure learned it fast enough.  Although it is kind of sweet that he's helping Darhk

 

Did anyone else think that the Iron Heights Prison outfits with IHP on the chest reminded them of IHOP?

 

That really is a butt ugly idol.  Homomagi?  Really?

 

Thea:  Well, we're already hacked into the surveillance system at the prison so if anything happens we'll see it.

A nice callback to season 1 when Felicity set that up.

 

When the ER doctor took over Laurel, she told the Green Arrow to get out of there before anyone else came in and saw him.  I guess he still has some friends on the hospital staff.

 

At the end, when Laurel was seizing, the doctor immediately said "embolism".  Among the many medical questions I have, including why they only shocked her once (maybe if they had put the pads on her body instead of on the hospital gown it would have worked), is why, when the doctors was doing chest compressions, the monitors show a flat line. Shouldn't they have registered the pumps?

 

How much guilt is Quentin going to have since he just gave Laurel his blessing to be the Black Canary?

 

At least Oliver looked properly stunned and confused when she died.

[phoenics]

Laurel's death sends a powerful message not only on Arrow, but on LoT and The Flash as well.  It doesn't matter how "iconic" the character supposedly is, or how safe you think they are...they can still die.

i think this phenomenon is solely for BC on Arrow - which is not really a comic show anymore. Flash, on the other hand, is lauded and praised for its ability to stick to its canon while keeping things fresh. It's also being "gifted" by WB/DC in that it even gets to be on the air - since Flash will be in the movie universe, technically Flash shouldn't even be on tv. Since it is, you best believe that they will try to stick to canon - it's the major thing that the show gets right. Geoff Johns is pretty big on that and rightfully so. If CW routinely bastardizes comic canon, hopefully DC/WB would finally just decide they've had enough with that and shut it down. No more comic shows on CW. Honestly, The Flash is the only good one, imo. And that's because it mines its canon so effectively. Arrow had to steal canon from Batman to reach the initial success it had. Pathetic.

As for this episode - BC deserved better than to in the end, be used to prop up Olicity. I know Laurel wasn't liked, but BC is a pretty iconic character that the Arrow writers never got right. But that's fine. Arrow isn't the iconic Green Arrow - he's some kind of bastardization of Batman, which I always found offensive. So I guess it makes sense that they'd botch BC too. Thank goodness WB had the sense to remove other characters from under this show's care. I hope BC shows up in the movie universe... and Arrow stays stuck on this show that isn't about The Green Arrow.

[dtissagirl]

If CW routinely bastardizes comic canon, hopefully DC/WB would finally just decide they've had enough with that and shut it down.

Every behind the scenes evidence we've gathered here for the past couple of years points to the opposite -- the CW went to bat for KC over and over again, while WBTV was pushing Berlanti Prod to replace her.

[EmilyBettFan]

Hopefully the show can get back to its core which was always the three of them. Those three were taking down criminals left and right before Laurel or Thea ever uttered a word about becoming a mask or talking about vigilantism.

[Sakura12]

The Comic canon argument always baffles me. Which comic, which canon, do we want them to follow? Do we count alternate universes? One offs? Graphic Novels? Mini-series? If the tv shows followed all of those, we'd have one strange story on our hands. 

[lemotomato]

I don't read DC comics. IDGAF about comic canon. Judging by their sales numbers, and looking at the audience numbers for the show, I'm guessing a whole lot of viewers don't read comics either. We just want an entertaining show.

 

I've been wanting to write a long post about how ironic it is that seasons 1-2, which are considered Arrow's strongest seasons, were the ones that deviated the most from GA's comic canon and comics in general. Meanwhile, the endlessly panned seasons 3-4 are the ones where the show lifted storylines straight from the comics.

[SonofaBiscuit]

Eh, I don't watch Arrow to see a faithful comic book adaptation come to life on screen.  If I did, apparently I'd get to see Oliver cheating and womanizing on Laurel over and over again?  Wait, that actually happened and it was nasty and toxic as hell.  If that's what comic canon gets me, hard pass.

[doesntworkonwood]

I, for one, am all for werewolf Oliver. Maybe this episode will be the catalyst for Oliver's true, and very hairy, journey. 

 

We'd get some weird fanfiction though.

[Chaser]

The Comic canon argument always baffles me. Which comic, which canon, do we want them to follow? Do we count alternate universes? One offs? Graphic Novels? Mini-series? If the tv shows followed all of those, we'd have one strange story on our hands. 

What I'm confused by is GA has had different love interests and a different set of characters depending on the run, are those also insults to the character?

 

Why is a TV show adaption held to a different standard than the actual comic book?

[statsgirl]

There already is a ton of werewolf/vampire fanfiction, including one where Felicity is a vampire/werewolf hybrid.

 

4 seasons in and I have no idea why Laurel thinks Oliver is the love of her life considering he cheated throughout their entire relationship with everyone from her friends to her own sister.  She still carried around that picture knowing that he had her sister with him on the boat

That's what made it so sad for me.The happiest days of her life, the ones she wants to remember, were when she was with a boyfriend who was cheating on her.

 

If it's true, she's not really impressive. Though it would be a nice eff you from DD to Ra's, taking his own daughter away.

We haven't seen Ruve fight yet.  But we do know she's the real Machiavellian one in the relationship.

Personally, I think it would be awesome to have Ruve end up to be Talia. That would be the kind of twisted black thinking I admire from Damian Darhk.

 

So, are we to assume Oliver had the Picture of Doom with him in Hong Kong? Did Amanda Waller kindly retrieved it while he was passed out in the Amazo and then handed it back to him?

My head canon is that he left it somewhere on the island when he started sleeping with Shado and went to pick it up again as something familiar when Waller dropped him off at the start of this season.

 

Plenty of people fall in love with people they shouldn't.   I found that aspect of her demise believable, easier to accept because I've never been a Laurel fan, but believable.

I think that's true, and believable. But I dislike it because it weakens Laurel as a person (as opposed to as a character)  She knew Ollie was a liar and a cheater nine years ago, she had Tommy who loved her enough to die to save her, she knows Oliver has moved on to someone else, and yet she's still holding on to the memory of Ollie.  If she had to have a picture of herself, I would rather it had been one where she was graduating from law school to remember what's important in her life.

 

Laurel, and the show, deserved a stronger Laurel Lance.

[Sakura12]

If the Flash is an example of a true comic book show, then I'll pass on more of those shows. The Flash manages to annoy me and bore me at the same time. It's so repetitive. I could skip a few episodes and Barry's still doing the same thing. Running at the villain of the week, losing, gets about a million pep talks from his million father figures, runs at the villain again, loses. Finally his team finds a way to defeat said villain, Barry runs again, wins and is celebrated as a hero. Then there's the fact that he calls himself the fastest man alive when they've shown that both Reverse Flash and Zoom were/are faster than him.

 

I do think Ruve being Talia could be interesting. Talia running off and marrying Darkh would've really stuck it to Ra's. She's his eldest daughter and he lost her to his enemy. It could explain why he was so insane with Nyssa. He was a pretty mellow guy in the 1960's. 

 

Laurel's relationship with Oliver was always based in a fantasy she created and apparently never got out of. I can't believe she'd keep a picture of herself and say it was a reminder of happier times, when her boyfriend was sticking his dick to any female that crossed his path, including one that lived in the same house as her. I suppose she was happier living in her delusion. If that's the case she needed some medical help. 

Edited April 7, 2016 by Sakura12

[hogwash]

What comic book is LOT following? Is there an actual Flash comic book with that dumb

Jay Garrick/Zoom/quadruplets(?)

crap everyone saw coming??? 

 

Anyway, I don't think this episode lived up to the hype of the first grave scene. Laurel being the big death actually fit with the all the grave scenes (even the one with the Felicity reveal), but this episode was kinda a letdown since it has been teased since the premiere. I actually think Felicity and Thea's "death" episodes were 1000x better.

[Angel12d]

This death would have been 100% more shocking and emotional if a) Laurel's final scene was with her dad and b) they hadn't done a flash forward showing that someone would die.

 

Also the paparazzi photos didn't help either.

[tangerine95]

I'll never get the comic book canon argument.Comics have so many versions, I don't even know what would be the canon people expect them to follow. Pretty much nothing follows comic book canon exactly.I find that argument to be used when convenient tbh and mostly when it comes to Laurel and her supposedly rightful place as female lead and her romance with Oliver.Idk how many times since season 1 can everyone involved with the show say they're telling their own story that they don't feel has to stick to the comics before people believe them and look at the show as an independent thing.

Yeah I agree the death was very underwhelming. I found the Felicity gets shot scene much more intense.Thea getting stabbed by Ras was also done so much better.Not to even mention Moira and Tommy's death scenes.Idk if it's just because we knew about it for so long but I was expecting the death to be done way better than that.

[EmilyBettFan]

What comic book is LOT following? Is there an actual Flash comic book with that dumb

Jay Garrick/Zoom/quadruplets(?)

crap everyone saw coming???

Anyway, I don't think this episode lived up to the hype of the first grave scene. Laurel being the big death actually fit with the all the grave scenes (even the one with the Felicity reveal), but this episode was kinda a letdown since it has been teased since the premiere. I actually think Felicity and Thea's "death" episodes were 1000x better.

That's because the actors and the characters are both compelling. You know it says something when you only start feeling a little sad when others are brought into LL's room and then her dad shows up at the end. Did anyone actually start crying when she was stabbed?