S04.E18: Eleven-Fifty-Nine

[anamika]

That's Katie Cassidy's actual head canon. Maybe the writers let her ad-lib that stuff? That's the only thing I can think of. 

 

 

Is there a good time to fire someone?

 

 

Doubt it. I doubt they ever listen to what KC has to say on anything. The Black Canary shipping Oliver and Felicity with her dying breadth and calling Oliver the love of her life is the kind of shitty writing that a hack like Guggenheim writing Tumblr fanfiction comes up with.

 

And if they had a proper story arc, maybe they could have given KC a heads up that this was where they wanted to go with her character? Instead they sideline her character, and just before she has a lot of hard scenes they call her in and tell her that her character is going to die. Are you saying that is right? Katie herself says how hard it was for her because she had a lot of memorizing to do with the court scenes and that it become all the more harder for her to focus. If that's true, that's a really shitty way to treat her. Though I am not surprised.

 

Watching this episode though, reminded me why I stopped watching this show. It's misogynistic writing of female characters aside, there's nothing interesting to watch unless one's a fan of Olicty/Felicity and are in it for the hot jock getting together with the nerdy geek. I am reminded of why I don't watch CW shows. They are not for me and I am not the target audience. I did enjoy season 2 with Slade and Sara, some good fight choreography and some great Island scenes. Someone recommended the show and I though season 1 was okay and season 2 good. Manu Bennett elevated the show and there was more to it than Olicity.

 

Anyways RIP Black Canary. You deserved better than this shit show. I really do hope the character ends up in the hands of better writers in the future. And a better actress. As much as I sympathize with KC for putting up with tons of hate and bull shit from the show runners, BC would have also been much better served with a better actress. But again, this is the CW. Amell and Rickards are both terrible TV actors as well. Which is why I am hoping BC ends up on something other than the CW. A Jessica Jones like show for BC would be awesome.

 

 

Not sure that informing someone that they're being fired and then expecting almost a whole season of committed, emotional work from them is very fair, either.

 

  Actors tend to be professional. Game of Thrones actors know ahead of time that they will be killed off and yet deliver some of the best performances there is. This is a flimsy excuse to not give an actor a heads up and let them know what's coming up for their character. Bad writing and shitty treatment of the actress.

Edited April 7, 2016 by anamika

[apinknightmare]

 

Doubt it. I doubt they ever listen to what KC has to say on anything. The Black Canary shipping Oliver and Felicity with her dying breadth and calling Oliver the love of her life is the kind of shitty writing that a hack like Guggenheim writing Tumblr fanfiction comes up with.

 

It's also the shitty head canon that Katie herself has expressed numerous times in her interviews. So, who knows.

 

Instead they sideline her character, and just before she has a lot of hard scenes they call her in and tell her that her character is going to die. Are you saying that is right? 

 

Yep. You think it was difficult for her to get through court scenes after finding out, how do you think she'd feel working on the show for eight months knowing she was being written off? Would that somehow be better?

[thegirlsleuth]

This episode was a bit of a jumble.  A LOT going on, and I think they were making some sort of point about people's capacity for change, but it got lost in the hopping plots that was redeemed--like most Arrow plots--by performances that elevated the material. 

 

I thought Katie Cassidy did a nice job on her death speech. I generally dislike Katie's performance, finding it either brittle or over dramatic, but this was the second time (the first being in Canaries) when she let this vulnerability shine through in a moving way.  That said, she had to work with material that left me thinking that the writers really, truly hated either Katie or Laurel.  I don't know if they were trying to throw the Laurel/Oliver or comic fans a bone, but her carrying around the picture and saying that he was her soulmate even if she wasn't his was pathetic rather sympathetic--it was a mean thing to do to the character.  It robbed her of dignity on her deathbed.  Also, the scene where she and Oliver discussed giving up the vigilante life again reminded me that they have anti-chemistry.  Both came off as flat, even as friends.

 

Onto other things:   I love Neal McDonough. Covered in blood, destroying people with a flick of the wrist, and commanding an army of murderers--he was great.  I was really hoping that he was going to make it into the next season because he is so much fun--we don't even know what his big corn-palace plot is!--but with Laurel's death I doubt he'll make it. 

 

Considering I have spent this season saying "go away Malcolm" whenever Barrowman shows up on screen, I was surprised how much I enjoyed his interactions with Thea.  The two of them as full on adversaries could be excellent, and their sword fight was awesome.  I don't know if it is Willa Holland's stunt person, Willa portraying someone who knows how to fight, or a combination of both, but her fight scenes have be excellent across the board this season. She really makes me believe that she is this scrappy fighter that could beat someone, some sort of combination of physicality and attitude.  Not so the other fight scenes.  The last scene in the jail was the worst they've ever done.  Did they have the B team stunt team?  No one in the whole scene could even fake landing a punch,  including the prison gang, Laurel, Diggle, and even Oliver.  The whole thing was really bad.  

 

Oh, Diggle.  I didn't cry at Laurel dying, but I did tear up when Diggle realized he shouldn't have trusted his brother.  He wanted so hard to believe it, and after seeing how much he mourned his brother over the last few years, it was devastating.  Also, Captain Lance collapsing after making jokes through the whole episode hurt like a sonavabitch.

 

It made me sad when Oliver said he couldn't change, he would always be the man on the island and nothing more. I think that Stephen Amell is making a choice to drop Oliver back to season one levels of emotional remoteness.  For me it works when he's being a badass--he was truly threatening when working over Andy--but leaves the other scenes feeling a little empty.  Someone give him a hug!  Preferably Felicity.

Edited April 7, 2016 by thegirlsleuth

[Chicago Redshirt]

I am also in the Dar(h)k as to a) why Team Arrow basically reassembled the Idol b) why they kept just the one piece separate c) how Andy was able to find the missing piece, especially when d) Ollie explicitly thought that Andy was looking for it. 

 

The "I know everywhere you've been" stuff is doesn't work, as a) Diggle has been tons of places and b) he could have given the stone to any number of people -- Flash, Vixen, Argus, etc. 

[lemotomato]

Doubt it. I doubt they ever listen to what KC has to say on anything. The Black Canary shipping Oliver and Felicity with her dying breadth and calling Oliver the love of her life is the kind of shitty writing that a hack like Guggenheim writing Tumblr fanfiction comes up with.

From an IGN interview on Feb 2, 2016:

IGN: I don't think I'm going to shock you guys by saying that some of the fans get very invested in the love stories on this show. There's the whole contingent of, "Oh, well, it's Oliver and Felicity…" but then there's the comic book contingent of, "Oh, no, Laurel and Oliver..." Do you guys have a deeply invested "where you want it to end," or do you just kind of like to see the different dynamics they can do?

 

Cassidy: Yeah, absolutely. Also, thinking about it, I felt I was happy -- and the way I look at their relationship -- I'm happy for Oliver, and I'm happy for Felicity. I see Felicity as this genuinely beautiful person and good person. Obviously, I still think Oliver is the love of Laurel's life, but that doesn't mean you end up with the love of your life. So I feel like she's come to peace with that. But it's also… Laurel didn't know who she was as a person when we saw her in Season 1, so she had to find herself and go through this journey on her own. Meanwhile, she got to watch this beautiful relationship blossom.

Edited April 7, 2016 by lemotomato

[pivot]

I am still in disbelief that they actually had Laurel spend her last minutes propping up Olicity to get back together.

That kind of passive aggressive BS from writers usually means they are using the show to get back at an actor or actress. I am starting to believe the BTS gossip about KC being fired.

[anamika]

It's also the shitty head canon that Katie herself has expressed numerous times in her interviews. So, who knows.

 

 

Yep. You think it was difficult for her to get through court scenes after finding out, how do you think she'd feel working on the show for eight months knowing she was being written off? Would that somehow be better?

 

 So you are saying that the writers let the actors act out their shitty head canons on the show? No wonder the writing for the show is this bad.

 

 I  give the actor enough respect to understand that they will be professional enough to do their job as Katie did in her court scenes. I also have the empathy to understand how hard it must have been for Katie to both come to terms with her losing her job and doing those court scenes. I think any decent show runner would have given an actor more time to process the fact that character was leaving the show then call her in just before some of her hardest scenes and make it that much harder on her. Rather than giving her a heads up that this was were they were headed with her character at the beginning of filming the season so she could more gradually come to terms with it.

 

But that's just me.

Edited April 7, 2016 by anamika

[dtissagirl]

like Guggenheim writing Tumblr fanfiction comes up with.

I misread this as if MG was legit posting fic on his Tumblr, and now I got the sads it isn't so.

[anamika]

From an IGN interview on Feb 2, 2016:

IGN: I don't think I'm going to shock you guys by saying that some of the fans get very invested in the love stories on this show. There's the whole contingent of, "Oh, well, it's Oliver and Felicity…" but then there's the comic book contingent of, "Oh, no, Laurel and Oliver..." Do you guys have a deeply invested "where you want it to end," or do you just kind of like to see the different dynamics they can do?

 

Cassidy: Yeah, absolutely. Also, thinking about it, I felt I was happy -- and the way I look at their relationship -- I'm happy for Oliver, and I'm happy for Felicity. I see Felicity as this genuinely beautiful person and good person. Obviously, I still think Oliver is the love of Laurel's life, but that doesn't mean you end up with the love of your life. So I feel like she's come to peace with that. But it's also… Laurel didn't know who she was as a person when we saw her in Season 1, so she had to find herself and go through this journey on her own. Meanwhile, she got to watch this beautiful relationship blossom.

 

  So? Again, why are the writers letting the actors spout their shitty head cannon on this show? Like I said, hack writers who could not come up with decent characterization and stories on their own. At this point Arrow is just Tumblr Olicity fanfiction. I am sure Guggenheim is going over the Olicity tags to come up with story ideas since he can't seem to come up with any of his own and seems to defer to his actors to come up with the dialogue.

 

Again, making Laurel spout Olicity bullshit and telling Oliver that he was the love of her life was a disservice to the character and incredibly misogynistic. There was more to Laurel than Oliver. Instead of focusing on that, or the father who actually loved her, they made it about her love for an abusive, womanizing asshole. Incredible, how bad that was. But it shows how bad the writing for this show is.

Edited April 7, 2016 by anamika

[grandemocha]

 

 

I  give the actor enough respect to understand that they will be professional enough to do their job as Katie did in her court scenes. I also have the empathy to understand how hard it must have been for Katie to both come to terms with her losing her job and doing those court scenes. I think any decent show runner would have given an actor more time to process the fact that character was leaving the show then call her in just before some of her hardest scenes and make it that much harder on her. Rather than giving her a heads up that this was were they were headed with her character at the beginning of filming the season so she could more gradually come to terms with it.

But that's just me.

Nope, not just you. She's not a child, she's a professional actress who should have been afforded enough common courtesy by the show runners and writers to have been informed about the death of her character much earlier and as a grown ass woman and actress, she would have continued to do her job properly. Even if telling her at the start of the season isn't par for the course (which I honestly find odd, and again tells me that its ridiculous that Guggenheim and Mericle essentially admitted that they didn't decide until halfway through the season..like WHO does that? It's so so sloppy) they could have told her earlier than two episodes ago or so.

 

Guggenheim called Katie a "class act" in an interview he just gave that was posted after the episode, but they sure didn't treat her like one with this pitiful send off and death. It was disrespectful in my opinion, plain and simple.

 

 

At this point Arrow is just Tumblr Olicity fanfiction. I am sure Guggenheim is going over the Olicity tags to come up with story ideas since he can't seem to come up with any of his own and seems to defer to his actors to come up with the dialogue.

I wouldn't put it past Guggenheim and Mericle to make Felicity the Black Canary in Season 5, I really would not be surprised. There was a line in one of the interviews he gave that makes me think he'd easily let another woman on the show pick up the mantle and become BC.

Edited April 7, 2016 by grandemocha

[apinknightmare]

  So you are saying that the writers let the actors act out their shitty head canons on the show? No wonder the writing for the show is this bad.

 

I have no idea what they do. I'm just saying that if Katie wanted to have input, she wouldn't have fought for something different or better for Laurel, because she herself didn't want anything different or better for Laurel. Katie thought Oliver was the love of Laurel's life, too. So, why worry about Katie deserving better, when that's what she wanted for Laurel?

 

I  give the actor enough respect to understand that they will be professional enough to do their job as Katie did in her court scenes. I also have the empathy to understand how hard it must have been for Katie to both come to terms with her losing her job and doing those court scenes. I think any decent show runner would have given an actor more time to process the fact that character was leaving the show then call her in just before some of her hardest scenes and make it that much harder on her. Rather than giving her a heads up that this was were they were headed with her character at the beginning of filming the season so she could more gradually come to terms with it.

 

I don't really get where you're coming from. What difference does it make when she's told or how she comes to grips with it? It would be difficult for her to be on the set day after day after being fired, so wouldn't it be better to let her know later on when she wouldn't have to report to work much longer? Giving her time to come to grips with being fired while still reporting to set for months doesn't seem a whole lot kinder. 

[EmilyBettFan]

KC is not some sort of amazing actress. Why do you think she's been stuck on the CW all these years. The way some talk about her make her sound like she's some sort of Emmy/Oscar winner.

[bijoux]

This was really Laurel's best episode and the death was handled well all in all. The twist of her being fine and then simply coding was an effective one, as was Lance coming just moments too late. This was the one reason why I was against it being Laurel, because Lance has now lost a daughter for the third time and he only had two of them. It's really too rough. That was a beautiful piece of music at the end there.

 

Two scenes kind of cheapened the things for me though. 1) Laurel saying to Oliver in the lair that she wanted to be there with him... And the team. 2) Their final scene in the hospital. It just connects the Black Canary to Oliver and leaves the impression she was doing it for him. Which is not something I think they should have gone for. But kudos to Oliver for not feeling guilty in the flash forward, especially with Laurel professing her unexpicable love to him with her dying breath.

 

I pretty much liked the rest of the episode all around. Lance giving BC the seal of approval, which means we won't live through season 3 with him going in revenge mode on Oliver. Andy being in cahoots with DD the entire time. Thank you, Jesus! Also, it gave us smart tactical Oliver who actually thought to or remembered to remove that rock thing from the idol. He was then also completely gracious with Dig and there for him at the hospital. Really, this was also the best Oliver episode in a while.

 

Last, but certainly not least, the flashbacks weren't completely pointless for once this season. Killer Oliver, it was past time you showed up. There's also a light shining at the end of this tunnel - Russia. Now, I'm a bit bummed that it seems like my wish for Oliver to be the one to off Poppy won't be coming into fruition, but I'll let it go if it brings me Anatoly faster.

[lemotomato]

  So? Again, why are the writers letting the actors spout their shitty head cannon on this show? Like I said, hack writers who could not come up with decent characterization and stories on their own. At this point Arrow is just Tumblr Olicity fanfiction. I am sure Guggenheim is going over the Olicity tags to come up with story ideas since he can't seem to come up with any of his own and seems to defer to his actors to come up with the dialogue.

 

Again, making Laurel spout Olicity bullshit and telling Oliver that he was the love of her write was a disservice to the character and incredibly misogynistic. There was more to Laurel than Oliver. Instead of focusing on that, or the father who actually loved her, they made it about her love for an abusive, womanizing asshole. Incredible, how bad that was. But it shows how bad the writing for this show is.

You said in the original post that Oliver being the love of Laurel's life wasn't KC's headcanon, and that you "doubt they ever listen to what KC has to say on anything." So... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯,

Edited April 7, 2016 by lemotomato

[dtissagirl]

But there's so much insanely great fic on Tumblr, like, crazy experimental transformative stuff that's mind-bending in the best possible way, why should anyone even take "Tumblr fanfiction" as if it were an insult?

[Angel12d]

  So? Again, why are the writers letting the actors spout their shitty head cannon on this show? Like I said, hack writers who could not come up with decent characterization and stories on their own. At this point Arrow is just Tumblr Olicity fanfiction. I am sure Guggenheim is going over the Olicity tags to come up with story ideas since he can't seem to come up with any of his own and seems to defer to his actors to come up with the dialogue.

 

Eh. I mean, I hate that she bought up Olicity too and I'm an Olicity fan. No one wanted that tbh. It made me cringe so much.

 

This is not fan fiction I would ever read. Just putting that out there.

[wonderwall]

Arrow is still trending 5 hours after the episode aired. I really do wonder about the ratings... hmmm

[bijoux]

Has anyone seen the actress playing Ruve anywhere else? She freaks me out when she smiles a little bit. Her upper lip curves up sort of weirdly. I don't know if that's how she normally does it or a character choice.

[Chaser]

After Laurel takes the photo back from Oliver and she is gazing at it, Oliver has this look on his face like 'Shit is she hitting me?'. He looks disturbed. 

 

I need someone to explain that stupid scene to me. She thought she was going to make it?!

[Angel12d]

Exactly. I'd nope right on out of any fic that had this as a plot.

 

I wanted to nope out of watching the whole scene. A part of me wanted to die, I was that embarrassed. LOL. I suffer with such bad secondhand embarrassment it's not even funny.

[bijoux]

It made me sad when Oliver said he couldn't change, he would always be the man on the island and nothing more. I think that Stephen Amell is making a choice to drop Oliver back to season one levels of emotional remoteness.  For me it works when he's being a badass--he was truly threatening when working over Andy--but leaves the other scenes feeling a little empty.  Someone give him a hug!  Preferable Felicity.

 

You know, I actually took that as a good thing. Yes, Oliver is the man those five years forged. Accepting that meaning accepting who he is, not trying to fight against it. So my interpretation is that verbalizing and acknowledging that will actually bring Oliver to a more level, satisfied place.

[Chaser]

Arrow is still trending 5 hours after the episode aired. I really do wonder about the ratings... hmmm

I read that #noLaurelnoArrow trended in Brazil and the UK. And Laurel Lance trended in Canada. It wasn't WW but she did her one job.

 

I wanted to nope out of watching the whole scene. A part of me wanted to die, I was that embarrassed. LOL. I suffer with such bad secondhand embarrassment it's not even funny.

I hated it and I loved it. Writers being shady.

[Kymmi]

Aside from the obvious wrongs, which have been covered - wasn't there supposed to be a Felicity/Curtis scene???  Didn't the description say something about a heart to heart?  That was weird.

 

Farewell Laurel.  I'm sorry they couldn't figure out hot to write the character until they decided to kill you.

 

Hats off to Paul B in the hallway scene.  Gutted me.

[Mars477]

Major Female characters on this show apparently work by the Harvey Dent principle. They either die heroes or live long enough to become a soul sucking parasite feasting off of the bloated mass of the show.

[grandemocha]

 

KC is not some sort of amazing actress. Why do you think she's been stuck on the CW all these years. The way some talk about her make her sound like she's some sort of Emmy/Oscar winner.

No one has called her an amazing actress. In fact, its been mentioned that she's decent at best but her send off from a show that she was on for four years was pathetic.. No one on Arrow is excellent. Emily sure isn't, she plays nerdy geek girl with a pretty face fairly well but her other work is nothing to write to the Emmy committee about, neither is Stephen, he's wooden as hell and his body is a large part of the reason that he's so popular, and the less said about the other cast, the better. They're on the CW for a reason, let's be real. CW motto might as well be (except for a VERY few exceptions) "looks first, acting talent second" and yes, that includes Katie. From her turn in Gossip Girl, to Supernatural, to Arrow It was decent, and mostly on par with her co-stars.

Edited April 7, 2016 by grandemocha

[NumberCruncher]

Aside from the obvious wrongs, which have been covered - wasn't there supposed to be a Felicity/Curtis scene???  Didn't the description say something about a heart to heart?  That was weird.

Yes, it was cut.

[Chaser]

The writers confirmed the Curtis and Felicity scene was cut.

[catrox14]

KC is not some sort of amazing actress. Why do you think she's been stuck on the CW all these years. The way some talk about her make her sound like she's some sort of Emmy/Oscar winner.

 

Okay there is a good bit of talent on the CW : Susannah Thompson (RIP Moira) Paul Blackthorne, Neil McDonough, John Barrowman, Jensen Ackles, Jared Padalecki, Misha Collins, Mark Shepard, Mark Pellegrino, Tom Amandes, Tom Cavanaugh, Rachel Bloom, Gina Rodriguez to name a few...KC just didn't happen to be one of those

[Princess Vanellope]

So you are saying that the writers let the actors act out their shitty head canons on the show? No wonder the writing for the show is this bad.

 

 I  give the actor enough respect to understand that they will be professional enough to do their job as Katie did in her court scenes. I also have the empathy to understand how hard it must have been for Katie to both come to terms with her losing her job and doing those court scenes. I think any decent show runner would have given an actor more time to process the fact that character was leaving the show then call her in just before some of her hardest scenes and make it that much harder on her. Rather than giving her a heads up that this was were they were headed with her character at the beginning of filming the season so she could more gradually come to terms with it.

 

But that's just me.

In most workplaces people aren't given a whole lot of time between the time they are let go and the last day they work at that particular job. Considering they film each episode for at least 10 days, Katie was given ample time to come to terms with being let go. There is no job in the entire world where you are given months and months of advance notice on your impending termination. Colin, Susanna, and Caity were all given about the same amount of time. Caity even had to go to SDCC and do a ton of press for the show just days after filming her death scene. I don't see why Katie should be treated any differently.

[lemotomato]

I read that #noLaurelnoArrow trended in Brazil and the UK. And Laurel Lance trended in Canada. It wasn't WW but she did her one job.

Can't wait for those Brazilian and UK fans to make a dent in the ratings. :P

[statsgirl]

You mean take back likes? You can do that.

 

You know, I actually took that as a good thing. Yes, Oliver is the man those five years forged. Accepting that meaning accepting who he is, not trying to fight against it. So my interpretation is that verbalizing and acknowledging that will actually bring Oliver to a more level, satisfied place.

I hope you're right.  It would be a good way to wrap up the five years on the island if by the end of next season, he's been able to separate that man from who he really is.

 

[Edited by mod: Fans.]

 

Has anyone seen the actress playing Ruve anywhere else? She freaks me out when she smiles a little bit. Her upper lip curves up sort of weirdly. I don't know if that's how she normally does it or a character choice.

She's been on a number of things on Canadian TV, including a cop series called Tom Stone.

I have the feeling she'll be gone by the end of the season but I have a secret wish they would bring her aunt Margot on for a cameo. If we can't have Superman, it would be fun to have Lois Lane.

 

ETA:  Margo Martindale found out that her character was being killed off on Justified when she read it in the script.  It was an oversight on Graham Yost's part not to tell her earlier but it happens.

Edited April 7, 2016 by MuuMuuChainsmoker

[EmilyBettFan]

Okay there is a good bit of talent on the CW : Susannah Thompson (RIP Moira) Paul Blackthorne, Neil McDonough, John Barrowman, Jensen Ackles, Jared Padalecki, Misha Collins, Mark Shepard, Mark Pellegrino, Tom Amandes, Tom Cavanaugh, Rachel Bloom, Gina Rodriguez to name a few...KC just didn't happen to be one of those

No what I meant was with her. Why she's been on it for so long and no real big thing has happened for her. I know all those others are talented.

[MariaHill]

 

 

When did they say it was a blood clot? Not that it matters but if it was supposed to be a blood clot, that is not how it would go down or how you would treat it. Accuracy is not their thing. But I really couldn't figure out what they wanted us to think the cause of death was. I was thinking a broken heart or heart failure related to blood loss.  My guess is they are going to find out that DD had done something to the arrow or has people on the inside of the hospital that poisoned her.

Honestly, that was the worse medical acting I've seen in awhile. KC sucked at her seizure. And no wonder the code failed, you don't put the stickers on top of the hospital gown. Just crappy medical acting & writing.

 

Arrow has always been crap at medical scenes. I think I heard the doc ordering heparin (a blood thinner)--which goes along with the clot theory. But giving a blood thinner to someone who just had major abdominal surgery to repair a stab wound is rarely a good idea, so. 

 

Did anyone else think Laurel was an idiot for considering the DA position? "I can keep an eye on Mrs. Evil! I'll be in the inner circle!" No, you'll be made to do illegal things, knowingly or not, while they document it to use against you as blackmail later, duh. 

[EmilyBettFan]

In most workplaces people aren't given a whole lot of time between the time they are let go and the last day they work at that particular job. Considering they film each episode for at least 10 days, Katie was given ample time to come to terms with being let go. There is no job in the entire world where you are given months and months of advance notice on your impending termination. Colin, Susanna, and Caity were all given about the same amount of time. Caity even had to go to SDCC and do a ton of press for the show just days after filming her death scene. I don't see why Katie should be treated any differently.

Exactly. This is just people being upset like they some how have some say as to when they are told they're being fired.

[catrox14]

 

That's the job of an actor. It's the professionalism

 

 

We don't now why Laurel was killed off. Maybe KC wasn't particularly professional on set. Maybe they thought she wasn't doing a good job in the role and couldn't elevate the material like others in the same show.

 

Until someone writes a tell all, we'll never know.

Edited April 7, 2016 by catrox14

[catrox14]

No what I meant was with her. Why she's been on it for so long and no real big thing has happened for her. I know all those others are talented.

 

Oh sorry. I misunderstood.  Maybe she knows people who know people, you know?

[grandemocha]

 

No what I meant was with her. Why she's been on it for so long and no real big thing has happened for her. I know all those others are talented.

What was supposed to happen for her? Was she supposed to go on to work in Oscar winning films? Emily isn't some hidden gem of a talent either, she got lucky with her role and she could very easily be another Nina Dobrev: main actress who is stuck on the CW for another 6 years on her CW show, popular in her small circle but fails miserably at breaking into the mainstream. Poor Nina is still kind of struggling at the moment with tiny indies and a role in the third XXX movie with Vin Diesel.

 

Like not every actor or actress on the CW will go on to accomplish bigger and better things. Some just move from show to show and make small indies. Contrary to popular belief, sometimes "real big things" just don't ever happen for some actors. No matter how many Teen Choice Awards they get nominated for over time.

Edited April 7, 2016 by grandemocha

[thegirlsleuth]

Nope, not just you. She's not a child, she's a professional actress who should have been afforded enough common courtesy by the show runners and writers to have been informed about the death of her character much earlier and as a grown ass woman and actress, she would have continued to do her job properly. Even if telling her at the start of the season isn't par for the course (which I honestly find odd, and again tells me that its ridiculous that Guggenheim and Mericle essentially admitted that they didn't decide until halfway through the season..like WHO does that? It's so so sloppy) they could have told her earlier than two episodes ago or so.

 

Guggenheim called Katie a "class act" in an interview he just gave that was posted after the episode, but they sure didn't treat her like one with this pitiful send off and death. It was disrespectful in my opinion, plain and simple.

 

I wouldn't put it past Guggenheim and Mericle to make Felicity the Black Canary in Season 5, I really would not be surprised. There was a line in one of the interviews he gave that makes me think he'd easily let another woman on the show pick up the mantle and become BC.

 

A few months back in the spoiler thread, when people were trying to piece together the death based on who was filming when the show runners visited Vancouver, we pulled quotes from when Susanna Thomson and Colin Donnell found out.  Both got the same amount of notice as Katie and both had the same if not more professional experience than she did.  It's industry standard.

[NumberCruncher]

This discussion is starting to go in circles and has long since veered off talking about the actual episode. Just sayin'.

[Angel12d]

The biggest mistake of the episode.  Now it's canon that Laurel died for Olicity, or at least so many will believe.

And I HATE IT.

 

Well, she didn't die for Olicity. This show proved that they could have Olicity together in a committed relationship and Laurel on the show. It's definitely not an 'either/or' situation where you can't have both. They just decided they didn't want Laurel on the show anymore.

 

But it was a huge mistake to even go there. The dialogue was unnecessary. The whole scene was unnecessary. Olicity didn't need her blessing. Yuck.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Angel12d

[catrox14]

What was supposed to happen for her? Was she supposed to go on to work in Oscar winning films? Emily isn't some hidden gem of a talent either, she got lucky with her role and she could very easily be another Nina Dobrev: main actress who is stuck on the CW for another

 

Well, Nina Dobrev is pretty talented playing multiple characters in the same show. Some actors enjoy the steady work especially if they have families. 

 

Emily is in her early 20's and was in an Oscar nominated film this year...just sayin'...

Edited April 7, 2016 by catrox14

[catrox14]

Well, she didn't die for Olicity. This show proved that they could have Olicity together in a committed relationship and Laurel on the show. It's definitely not an 'either/or' situation where you can't have both. They just decided they didn't want Laurel on the show anymore.

 

But it was a huge mistake to even go there. The dialogue was unnecessary. The whole scene was unnecessary. Olicity didn't need her blessing. Yuck.

 

I feel like it would have been okay with Laurel just being happy for Oliver and Felicity. But for me saying Oliver was the love of her life....was just stupid.

[Slovenly Muse]

I'm interested to see what will happen when Sara finds out. What this show needs is a Winchester-like cycle of one sibling dying, and the other bringing them back to life through some shady method, and the one resenting them for it, but then being unable to resist doing the same thing themselves when the other dies, over and over again until the fans riot.

 

I feel nothing over the death of Laurel. But this show just killed off Black Canary. Unforgivable. Basically doubling-down on their original mistake of not just MAKING SARA BLACK CANARY. Seriously! Don't adapt a hugely beloved character for your show if you're going to treat her this way!

 

Unless Sara ends up becoming Black Canary as a tribute to her sister, and then it's all fixed.... Huh. So simple to do. So unlikely it will actually happen in a satisfactory manner.

[apinknightmare]

Guys, come on. Can we not get into petty arguments about career choices? 

 

[foreverevolving]

I may have to watch some scenes again, by the time buckles bite the dust I was in happy buzz land from that awesome champagne so all I remember is Felicity hugging Oliver and him looking like he never wants to let her go, everyone telling her "love you" besides Oliver, which made me pause and snicker, and pray they were not saving it for later. than when that stupid pic came out, and Lance crashing to the floor.

All I remember from the flasbacks is poppy pic, Laurel pic, Poppy screaming, Oliver coming out blazing guns of glory.. i'm blanked out after that! no idea what happened. I am officially over these flashbacks.

I do remember poppy saying something about 2 or 3 months being there or all of this happening? someone correct me and save me having to watch those scenes again.

Edited April 7, 2016 by foreverevolving

[Lady Calypso]

Guys, guys, guys! MuuMuu told us to be good! I agree that this is getting off track, with talking too much about actors/fans, which is a no-no, right? So let's show our lovely mod(s) how civil and how awesome we can be, especially after an episode like this! Maybe take the appropriate discussions elsewhere? And fan talk isn't allowed, right? Well, I just want to help our mod out while she's away! So here's a cute picture of us all being friends! 

 

[Angel12d]

I feel like it would have been okay with Laurel just being happy for Oliver and Felicity. But for me saying Oliver was the love of her life....was just stupid.

 

I would have been fine with the first part - that she was happy he found Felicity...about 10 episodes ago. Not on her deathbed. And carrying around the picture THAT HE GAVE BACK and saying he was the love of her life, especially when she thought she was gonna be fine was just awful and awkward and like...what? I will never understand that.

 

Keto, you fucked up, girl.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Angel12d

[catrox14]

The more I think about it the more feel like I'm gonna need to see them salt and burn Laurel's bones for me to be 100% convinced she's gone for good from Arrow. LOL. 

[apinknightmare]

So here's a cute picture of us all being friends! 

 

Have you been carrying it around in your wallet? After all these years?

[Angel12d]

So...how about Andy, that little shit? LOL.

 

I have to hand it to them, I actually wasn't sure which way it was gonna go in that first opening scene where he tells Diggle that Damien knows he's alive. But then as soon as he took an arrow for Oliver I knew what he was doing. Oh Andy.