S07.E03: Breaking Apart

[blubld43]

I'm more concerned for Kaiser at this point. Not getting attention/bonding with caregivers at Kaiser's age can mess someone up for life

 

This is exactly what I think, and I also envisioned those orphanages.  This is abuse that will damage that baby for life, as you said.  I wanted to jump through the television and wring her neck, watching Jenelle roll around a baby's playroom while completely ignoring the baby. That poor child, how many people  would love to adopt that precious little chunk?  And his "mother"'s utter selfishness absolutely takes precedence over what's best for Kaiser. I think this is the best example I've ever seen of how UNselfish it is when people not prepared to parent allow their child to be adopted.  How much better off Kaiser would have been, to go to an adoptive home.

And even Barbara doesn't want to get attached to him.  It's just tragic.

[FozzyBear]

Leah's brother: What did y'all do today?

Gracie: uhhhhhhhhhhhh, buried my hamster.

Bwahahahahahaha! I love that kid.

[Mkay]

I kind of doubt she came home and went straight to bed. I really hope his parents don't do drop off at bedtime. I think it only looked that way through editing. Maybe Chelsea could tell that her teeth hadn't been brushed. Who knows.

Edited April 8, 2016 by Mkay

[Pepper Mostly]

Hahaha, right? How about that little segment where she and Ali are fishing with Corey, and she squeaks "I lost my pole!". Corey goes over and she looks up, completely deadpan, and says "Dad, I'm not joking. I really did". Me: dying. She is so cute.

[ReadMeLattice]

To answer the questions about Jenell's dad: Jenelle's dad and Barb, and I think her other boyfriends as well, had cops called/DV/lots of fights when Jenelle was young (we can see the pattern unfurling...). He's never really been in her life and eventually just disappeared. Recently he was interviewed by a tabloid and he said something to the effect of not much caring one way or the other if he had a relationship with his kids and they could contact him if they wanted. Nice guy. You can see where she gets it. Barb had a revolving door of boyfriends, too. I feel so bad for everyone caught in that cycle, especially Jace and Kaiser. Their chances are so slim.

[Mkay]

P.S I just saw Javi scratching his head twice in a scene later in the show. He needs to stop and take a bath. It's embarrassing. Hahaha

[lovesnark]

Do we know ANYTHING about Jenelle's dad? I guess I remember hearing he was abusive and they've obviously divorced at this point but anything else? Is he in Jenelle's life at all? If not when did he "leave"? Has he met Jace? Does he live in the area? Anything?

We don't really know more than what Barb has mentioned. She said she was in an abusive marriage and saved enough money to get out and move away. That's how they wound up living in North Carolina.

 

Aubree is going to be an absolute nightmare once Chelsea and Cole get married and another baby comes into the picture. To me, six is a little old to be pitching toddler style tantrums. I couldn't deal with that. I do sympathize with Chelsea because it's hard to discipline the way you really want to when the cameras are rolling. It sounds to me like Adam's parents should be dropping Aubree off earlier, that way she can ease back into her routine rather than getting home and going straight to bed.

Our daughter was 5 when our son was born and it was sheer hell for a little while. She went from being this sweet, precocious little girl to an insanely jealous little monster. We got through it with endless patience but it was tough. Once she figured out that her little brother wasn't going to take every ounce of our attention from her, she relaxed and became a very helpful, protective big sister. During the monster phase, she actually called a family meeting and told us to take that baby back to the hospital because he was ruining her life - LOL!

 

I also wondered if Adam's parents dropped Aubree off right at bed time. Since she's in school now, Chelsea should ask them to bring her home an hour earlier or have them have her brush her teeth and put on her pajamas before they bring her home. She'd be ready for a story and bed.

[NikSac]

During the monster phase, she actually called a family meeting and told us to take that baby back to the hospital because he was ruining her life - LOL!

 

I also wondered if Adam's parents dropped Aubree off right at bed time. Since she's in school now, Chelsea should ask them to bring her home an hour earlier or have them have her brush her teeth and put on her pajamas before they bring her home. She'd be ready for a story and bed.

 

haha... ohhh that is going to be such a fun story to break out at one or both of their future graduations, weddings, etc. One of those cute in hindsight things.

 

No kids myself, but I've seen 5 and 6 year olds have total toddler style meltdowns now and again, so I can see why it might happen under extra stress situations. I was wondering that too about Aubree getting home. If she was getting home right at bedtime that's no good, but that whole scene seemed really disjointed, like maybe it was re-done a couple of times. I wish I hadn't deleted the episode because I want to rewatch now. I could swear that Chelsea's stairs had a bunch of stuff piled up as mentioned before, but only sometimes. I also thought I saw her on the stairs once and everything was cleared off.

[Pixiebomb]

Isaac is scratching his head? My first thought is lice. It is really going around in the schools here and not a fate I would wish on my worst enemy. Kail- maybe. What would the neighbors think??? I bet she would try to say that he contracted it at Jo's house.

[ChocolateAddict]

Isaac is scratching his head? My first thought is lice. It is really going around in the schools here and not a fate I would wish on my worst enemy. Kail- maybe. What would the neighbors think??? I bet she would try to say that he contracted it at Jo's house.

The way that I see it going down is that Isaac turns up for lunch with a shirt that has a cartoon character on and maybe scratches his head once.  Javi being the insecure brat that he is sees the opportunity to start shit between Kail and Jo since they had been getting on so well.  So he goes home and bitches to Kail that her child is unkempt and basically has worms before stepping back and watching the fireworks.  

If Isaac had lice, I bet we would have heard about it being all Jo's fault!

[ghoulina]

Leah's brother: What did y'all do today?

Gracie: uhhhhhhhhhhhh, buried my hamster.

Bwahahahahahaha! I love that kid.

 

I wonder what happened to the hamster? Did it get into Leah's pillses?

[NikSac]

I wonder what happened to the hamster? Did it get into Leah's pillses?

 

I was wondering about that too. Wasn't it Leah that had the completely hysterical meltdown about the kitten she killed (by not caring for it properly) in an earlier season?  And yet the hamster was like.. eh.. hamster died and buried, no biggie. I felt sad for the kids in that scene,

[lezlers]

Queen of the Holler is what I've always called Leah to myself! Great minds think alike!

 

Aubree and Chelsea--Chelsea says "go brush your teeth and I'll put your pj's on". So it was bedtime. Chelsea's routine must be pj's and brush teeth, then story and cuddle time. Aubree went from zero to sixty in a second, and I thought Chelsea did pretty well with following through and standing firm. Changing her mind was the last thing she should have done, imo. Its just like when you pick up your kid who's been a perfect angel all day at day care or school, and they throw a complete wobbler once you show up. They've been maintaining all day but feel safe enough to lose it once a parent is on the scene. Aubree had been with Adam (or his parents) all weekend, probably on her best behavior, and is finally free to let that tension go once she's home. Its weird but its true. For Chelsea to cave in and let Aubree have her way would not have been a good idea. mileage, varies, etc. 

 

OMG TOTALLY.  Every time my parents or in laws drop off my kids after spending the day with them my kids are hot ass messes, yet the grandparents insist they've been angels all day long!  Same thing when I pick up my son from school.  Great day there and 4 meltdowns between the front door of the school and the car.  It's so frustrating.   But like you said, the worst thing you can do is give in to it.   I thought Chelsea handled the situation fine.  She didn't yell (which is hard not to do when dealing with a kid like that), didn't spank, she stayed firm and followed through on her threat (eventually.)   No hate here.

To answer the questions about Jenell's dad: Jenelle's dad and Barb, and I think her other boyfriends as well, had cops called/DV/lots of fights when Jenelle was young (we can see the pattern unfurling...). He's never really been in her life and eventually just disappeared. Recently he was interviewed by a tabloid and he said something to the effect of not much caring one way or the other if he had a relationship with his kids and they could contact him if they wanted. Nice guy. You can see where she gets it. Barb had a revolving door of boyfriends, too. I feel so bad for everyone caught in that cycle, especially Jace and Kaiser. Their chances are so slim.

That's very interesting.  Jenelle is sounding more and more like Barbara 2.0

[Rebecca]

Thanks for the info about Jenelle's father. I wonder what his mental health history holds? I'm just not ready to blame Barb for all that is..Jenelle. But it's sounding more and more like Jenelle has been "parenting" at least somewhat like she had it modeled to her in childhood.

Edited April 8, 2016 by Rebecca

[NikSac]

http://www.mtv.com/full-episodes/yb4zmy/teen-mom-2-breaking-apart-season-7-ep-703 around 18:30 is the Aubree/Chelsea/Cole scene. I swear the pile of stuff on the stairs keeps changing, so I think it was maybe filmed several times.

 

ETA: sorry, I think the only way to view it is to go through all the ads. Didn't realize that til I posted it.

Edited April 8, 2016 by NikSac

[Mkay]

http://www.mtv.com/full-episodes/yb4zmy/teen-mom-2-breaking-apart-season-7-ep-703 around 18:30 is the Aubree/Chelsea/Cole scene. I swear the pile of stuff on the stairs keeps changing, so I think it was maybe filmed several times.

ETA: sorry, I think the only way to view it is to go through all the ads. Didn't realize that til I posted it.

I still have it recorded. Mostly because I want to read what all is said after I watch it, read here, then go back and check what you all point out. You are correct. It either disappears or the camer doesn't pan down enough to see it in between shots.

[DangerousMinds]

Thanks for the info about Jenelle's father. I wonder what his mental health history holds? I'm just not ready to blame Barb for all that is..Jenelle. But it's sounding more and more like Jenelle has been "parenting" at least somewhat like she had it modeled to her in childhood.

Where is the information about Barb having a revolving door of boyfriends and multiple DV charges coming from?

[GreatKazu]

Barb had an ex-husband. Barb mentioned DV in her life. I am not clear if she was talking about her ex or another guy. Are her children from the same guy? Then, there was what's his name...Mike? The one we saw on occasion on the show. I too am curious about the supposed revolving door of guys. If info was posted about any other guys, I guess we missed it.

I do not doubt Jenelle watched a lot growing up and learned all about toxic relationships. The comment "Why are you so mean to me?" gets said a lot by Barb and Jenelle. Barb admitted staying in a DV relationship. I do not recall her saying cops were called constantly or that she had cops called on her.

[Rebecca]

Where is the information about Barb having a revolving door of boyfriends and multiple DV charges coming from?

I'd like to know that too. I was never under the impression Barb was the perpetrator of DV but she did say she was a victim at one point. I think it was one of the first times Jenelle had a DV issue, -maybe with Kieffer? that she brought it up. I remember Barb calling herself a "party girl" in reference to her past, I never took that to mean arrests and things like Jenelle but I wonder how similar they could've been.

What I was saying before was in reference to her father - she doesn't parent her kids and her father didn't parent her. She is indifferent to her kids and her father is indifferent to his kids. Her dad apparently hit her mom and she has been involved with DV in some way with every boyfriend.

Edited April 9, 2016 by Rebecca

[lezlers]

Barb had an ex-husband. Barb mentioned DV in her life. I am not clear if she was talking about her ex or another guy. Are her children from the same guy? Then, there was what's his name...Mike? The one we saw on occasion on the show. I too am curious about the supposed revolving door of guys. If info was posted about any other guys, I guess we missed it.

I do not doubt Jenelle watched a lot growing up and learned all about toxic relationships. The comment "Why are you so mean to me?" gets said a lot by Barb and Jenelle. Barb admitted staying in a DV relationship. I do not recall her saying cops were called constantly or that she had cops called on her.

That's pretty common for people that stay in DV relationships, tho.  If they're not the ones calling the cops (I can definitely see Barb repeatedly calling the cops, given her excited advice to Jenelle to get a court order so then she could "bam!" call the cops on Nathan if he dared to take HIS child where Jenelle didn't want him to be) neighbors or passerbys that hear the commotion usually will.   I have no doubt Jenelle experienced a childhood much like Jace is.   Well, less so now since Barb appears single.  You know Jace heard some SHIT when Barb and Mike were breaking up, tho.

[ReadMeLattice]

They were homeless for a while after their house burned down and Jenelle's dad did nothing to help/wasn't around. In the divorce papers, Babs says Jenelle's dad was an alcoholic and a physical abuser and he says she has severe mental health issues that make her psychologically/verbally abusive to the kids (which we've certainly seen). He declared bankruptcy at least once, maybe twice. Jenelle continued to see her dad occasionally for a while until Barbara got a new guy and either the new guy, Barbara, or Jenelle's dad wanted the visits to end. You can find the interview where he basically goes "whatever, she can call me, don't much care" when asked about seeing her in a variety of online sources. Can you say Daddy issues?

Babs hasn't had the same level of substance abuse and jail problems, of course not, though she was picked up for shoplifting in 2001. But she got pregnant as a teen and all three of her kids have huge social problems and constant run ins with the law. The grandson she's raising is deeply unstable and aggressive/violent. She obviously played a major role in this, and of course the dad was worthless, as was the stepdad who left for a Hooters waitress. You might have 1 bad egg for a kid, but not 3 (or 4!). Jace honestly might be better off in foster care or being adopted.

Jenelle is useless and it's too late for her, and unless she goes to intensive therapy ain't nothing going to change. She cannot be a mother. Ever. It's "nice" that Barbara took Jace, I guess, but she seems pretty abusive herself. I know from experience that psychological abuse can be the worst kind. She doesn't deserve to have to be a mom at this age and her history as a mother shows she's unfit as well.

[BitterApple]

Wow, that's a really sad family situation and it puts a lot of things in perspective.

[jacksgirl]

Late to the party again, but always watch after reading comments. Chelsea- boring, but I am happy for you. Leah- get some help NOW. Corey only wants the best for the girlses. Jenelle- you are beyond redemption. Kail- in my best Tyra Banks voice- "We were rooting for you, we were all rooting for you." Kail- as a kindergarten teacher, I see kids daily who have not had a bath, a change of clothes, seen a toothbrush or had  a decent meal in days. Isaac was NOT dirty, his hair was fine and he probably had on a favorite shirt. You talk about how he is dressed is a reflection on you, no it isn't. Getting him to school happy, well-rested and ready to learn is the only reflection on you. Yelling at Jo, videoing him (not from the beginning of the encounter), slapping Javi, stealing your mother's TV, and cheating on a current boyfriend with an ex, however ARE reflections of you and it is an ugly picture.

Edited April 9, 2016 by jacksgirl

[GreatKazu]

Lm2162. Where are these documents you are referring to?

That's pretty common for people that stay in DV relationships, tho. If they're not the ones calling the cops (I can definitely see Barb repeatedly calling the cops, given her excited advice to Jenelle to get a court order so then she could "bam!" call the cops on Nathan if he dared to take HIS child where Jenelle didn't want him to be) neighbors or passerbys that hear the commotion usually will. I have no doubt Jenelle experienced a childhood much like Jace is. Well, less so now since Barb appears single. You know Jace heard some SHIT when Barb and Mike were breaking up, tho.

I was in an abusive relationship before I met my spouse. I did not have the cops called on me, which is what I was asking in reference to the comment made about Barb.

My other question was, where she got her information. I have not read any details here about the things she has posted about Barb having a revolving door of guys, making repeated calls to police. I know about the fire and Jenelle's dad. That info has been posted here.

Just curious as to all the rest of the info and where that info came from. If it is speculation, fine. But, the info seems to have a source. Just wondering what the source is for those details.

Edited April 9, 2016 by GreatKazu

[blubld43]

Getting him to school happy, well-rested and ready to learn is the only reflection on you. Yelling at Jo, videoing him (not from the beginning of the encounter), slapping Javi, stealing your mother's TV, and cheating on a current boyfriend with an ex, however ARE reflections of you and it is an ugly picture.

 

Well said, could not agree more!

 I wonder if Kail is in therapy.....she seems like she truly wants to do better with her kids than her own mom did.  In light of her difficult upbringing, her young age, etc, I'm rooting for her to grow and learn as both a parent AND a person.  Marrying Javi was obviously a mistake, IMO, but she seems to love her boys and unlike SOME of the other moms on this show, she actually is working to make sure they have the best.  She's the only one, on both versions of Teen mom I think,  to pursue a college degree and I give her big props for that as well.  She has a book out, that was what the photo shoot with the boys was all about, right?  She's not content to coast on MTV income, she's one of the few on any iteration of this program that seems to realize this tv money isn't going to last forever.

I remember reading somewhere, and I know it's been talked about in the threads, that Leah supposedly spent the girlses trust account.  That tells you right there that she hasn't saved a nickel for anything.  She's another one doing a piss-poor job of parenting, but as I said in another thread, I feel sorry for her suffering and I do believe she loves her girlies.

[ReadMeLattice]

The divorce papers, for one (was carried on for over a year, lots of documentation and details I left out--he was requested to complete anger management and domestic violence courses in order to have partial custody); Babs' past remarks; court documents on the shoplifting; interview with Jenelle's father; Jenelle's blog about the many "altercations" she witnessed as a child. Her siblings' trouble with the law is also common knowledge. The dad admits to not having contact for over a decade and not being involved after new boyfriend (Mike? Someone else?). Was Robert (Jenelle's dad) her siblings' father too? Can't quite follow that part. Anyway, he moved in with his mom and for over a year a battle ensued ("she won't let me see the kids," "he won't stop using illegal drugs," all good Jenelle/Nathan type stuff) until he agreed to pay up and they finally left each other alone and he went out of their lives.

Both Ashleigh and Jenelle's brother have been arrested for assault, I think he's been arrested for other things too. Barbara and Ashleigh were estranged for a time because "she had mental problems." Ashleigh has publicly supported Jenelle's assaults. She's also come out (in magazine statements) against her father, confirming that they were all afraid of him and his rages were violent, especially when he drank. Jenelle posted a video of Ashleigh a few years ago screaming and cursing at her toddler aged son while he sobbed; Ashleigh has accused her baby daddy of abuse; etc, etc. Where there's smoke, there's fire. Something happened in that family, and it was baaaadd.

It also simply makes sense. It's not black or white, but it's illogical to insist that Jenelle and her two siblings, one of whom, I believe, also has a child being raised by Barbara (could be wrong), and all of whom have had major trouble with the law, just turned out unstable and evil for no reason. We've seen Barbara be disgustingly verbally abusive on camera to both Jenelle and Jace, and the new husband she chose cheated on her, they got back together, he cheated and left again, yada yada. I think this happened several times. Sound familiar?

Edited April 9, 2016 by Lm2162

[guilfoyleatpp]

Isaac going to school with bedhead and a t-shirt reflects on Kailyn a lot better than her and her current husband standing on her baby daddy's lawn while yelling at them for the entire neighborhood to hear.

 

We live next door to people like that. I know all these people's business. The mom is a CNA and she hates old people. The dad/step dad is a stay at home dad, but goes out to party with his friends a couple times a month. They like to play the game where one of them locks the other one out. Also, the mom got into a fight with a neighbor where the neighbor called her a crack head and she called the neighbor a racial slur.  There are three kids there and it breaks my heart that they have knock down drag outs in front of their kids. Now that I think about it, she might be more like Jenelle, but her man hasn't left her yet. I still think they're trashy as all hell.

 

It's part of the reason that we're moving.

[Lexie]

I think Kail wants to give her kids more material things than she had but I don't see her doing anything to give them better in any other way.

Her mother probably also got involved in relationships for the wrong reasons, had domestic violence in the home, etc.   Appearances are all Kail cares about, she doesn't care if she is actually kicking Javi's ass behind closed doors and trying to get Isaac to say he likes Javi better and stirring shit with Jo in his own home over what he chooses to wear around the house so that Isaac gets to be around even more fighting.   

[lezlers]

The divorce papers, for one (was carried on for over a year, lots of documentation and details I left out--he was requested to complete anger management and domestic violence courses in order to have partial custody); Babs' past remarks; court documents on the shoplifting; interview with Jenelle's father; Jenelle's blog about the many "altercations" she witnessed as a child. Her siblings' trouble with the law is also common knowledge. The dad admits to not having contact for over a decade and not being involved after new boyfriend (Mike? Someone else?). Was Robert (Jenelle's dad) her siblings' father too? Can't quite follow that part. Anyway, he moved in with his mom and for over a year a battle ensued ("she won't let me see the kids," "he won't stop using illegal drugs," all good Jenelle/Nathan type stuff) until he agreed to pay up and they finally left each other alone and he went out of their lives.

Both Ashleigh and Jenelle's brother have been arrested for assault, I think he's been arrested for other things too. Barbara and Ashleigh were estranged for a time because "she had mental problems." Ashleigh has publicly supported Jenelle's assaults. She's also come out (in magazine statements) against her father, confirming that they were all afraid of him and his rages were violent, especially when he drank. Jenelle posted a video of Ashleigh a few years ago screaming and cursing at her toddler aged son while he sobbed; Ashleigh has accused her baby daddy of abuse; etc, etc. Where there's smoke, there's fire. Something happened in that family, and it was baaaadd.

It also simply makes sense. It's not black or white, but it's illogical to insist that Jenelle and her two siblings, one of whom, I believe, also has a child being raised by Barbara (could be wrong), and all of whom have had major trouble with the law, just turned out unstable and evil for no reason. We've seen Barbara be disgustingly verbally abusive on camera to both Jenelle and Jace, and the new husband she chose cheated on her, they got back together, he cheated and left again, yada yada. I think this happened several times. Sound familiar?

 THIS.   I've said it before and I'll say it again.  One bad seed?  Bad luck.  Two?  Getting suspicious.  3+? They turned out that way for a reason.  In the long run, Jace isn't going to be much better off having been raised by Barbara.   That's the sad truth.  That boy should've gone into foster care.

Edited April 9, 2016 by lezlers

[GreatKazu]

The divorce papers, for one (was carried on for over a year, lots of documentation and details I left out--he was requested to complete anger management and domestic violence courses in order to have partial custody); Babs' past remarks; court documents on the shoplifting; interview with Jenelle's father; Jenelle's blog about the many "altercations" she witnessed as a child. Her siblings' trouble with the law is also common knowledge. The dad admits to not having contact for over a decade and not being involved after new boyfriend (Mike? Someone else?). Was Robert (Jenelle's dad) her siblings' father too? Can't quite follow that part. Anyway, he moved in with his mom and for over a year a battle ensued ("she won't let me see the kids," "he won't stop using illegal drugs," all good Jenelle/Nathan type stuff) until he agreed to pay up and they finally left each other alone and he went out of their lives.

Both Ashleigh and Jenelle's brother have been arrested for assault, I think he's been arrested for other things too. Barbara and Ashleigh were estranged for a time because "she had mental problems." Ashleigh has publicly supported Jenelle's assaults. She's also come out (in magazine statements) against her father, confirming that they were all afraid of him and his rages were violent, especially when he drank. Jenelle posted a video of Ashleigh a few years ago screaming and cursing at her toddler aged son while he sobbed; Ashleigh has accused her baby daddy of abuse; etc, etc. Where there's smoke, there's fire. Something happened in that family, and it was baaaadd.

It also simply makes sense. It's not black or white, but it's illogical to insist that Jenelle and her two siblings, one of whom, I believe, also has a child being raised by Barbara (could be wrong), and all of whom have had major trouble with the law, just turned out unstable and evil for no reason. We've seen Barbara be disgustingly verbally abusive on camera to both Jenelle and Jace, and the new husband she chose cheated on her, they got back together, he cheated and left again, yada yada. I think this happened several times. Sound familiar?

I do not think anyone insisted Barb was anything. It had been mentioned many times how Barb is the better alternative as a parent for Jace than Jenelle. It does not make her mother of the year. In fact, many, including myself, have commented on Barb's behavior towards Jace. There is no debate on that issue at all. Merely a question about revolving boyfriends and DV. With Janelle, we have watched the revolving door. Not so with Barb.

I did not Know Jenelle had a blog. Then again, I do not spend any time time reading these girls' Twitter, Facebook or such unless someone posts it here. I also do not bother searching for documents online. Usually someone will find info and post the links to the source.

Jenelle also tends to rewrite history. Credibility is something Jenelle lacks.

blubld - Kail stated she and her fugly husband don't go to counseling anymore. I suppose that was the beginning of the end for them. Kail is likely not going to seek individual counseling since it is always someone else's fault.

Edited April 9, 2016 by GreatKazu

[ReadMeLattice]

Nothing Jenelle says on that particular post contradicts anything said by her father, mother, siblings, the court papers, or the timeline on the same subject. Otherwise I'd agree.

He was violent/a drunk, agreed to pay a certain amount to get Jenelle's mom off his back, didn't pay his child support, moved in with his mom, declared bankruptcy, stopped visiting them abruptly, and hadn't contacted his kids for over a decade. That's what all of them agree on, along with the fact that Barbara has called the cops on every single one of them and is emotionally abusive and manipulative. There's also no way to argue with court documentation which confirms all/most of this. We don't need court documentation that Barbara is mentally ill and psychologically violent and produces violent child after violent child (whether she is their genetic parent or not) because it's obvious.

None of that absolves Jenelle. She will be the next Barbara and has already taken it even more over the top, partially due to fame, money, and access to drugs. Barbara was likely abused as well. That's how generational trauma goes. It will get worse until someone (I pray it's Kaiser or Jace) cuts the cord and ends the cycle.

Edited April 9, 2016 by Lm2162

[BitterApple]

It really is sad when patterns repeat themsleves. I was unaware of the video where Jenelle's sister cussed out her toddler.

I can only imagine what Jenelle is like with Kaiser behind closed doors when she can barely keep her temper in check while the cameras are rolling. Her friend Tori skeeves me out even more. When Jenelle remarked about Tori falling down drunk, my thought was "wow, THIS is who you're leaving your child with when you go out of town?!"

Edited April 9, 2016 by BitterApple

[DangerousMinds]

Whatever Barb did or didn't do in the more distant past, we do know she wanted Jenelle to give up Jace for adoption as a baby. Jenelle wouldn't do it.

[ReadMeLattice]

Tori might even be worse. Every time I see her I get the creeps for some reason.

The breakups (she says she and Mike were constantly fighting...likely in front of Jace) and the continued psychological abuse are not, I'd argue, in the distant past. Clearly Jace has major problems caused by both women, and perhaps most due to his entirely absent father. However, yes, Jace should have been and honestly probably still should be put up for adoption. Jenelle was and continues to be deeply selfish and unfeeling. Her focus is 100% on filling the void of her father with a new man that she idealizes.

Edited April 9, 2016 by Lm2162

[Maharincess]

It really is sad when patterns repeat themsleves. I was unaware of the video where Jenelle's sister cussed out her toddler.

I can only imagine what Jenelle is like with Kaiser behind closed doors when she can barely keep her temper in check while the cameras are rolling. Her friend Tori skeeves me out even more. When Jenelle remarked about Tori falling down drunk, my thought was "wow, THIS is who you're leaving your child with when you go out of town?!"

I agree about Tori. When Jenelle was talking about the bandage on the back of Tori's hand, my first thought was that she was trying to cover up tracks on her hand.

[blubld43]

I can only imagine what Jenelle is like with Kaiser behind closed doors when she can barely keep her temper in check while the cameras are rolling.

 

I've often thought the same thing, she can't even pretend to love him on camera, while people are watching her.  It's so damn tragic that he wasn't given for adoption, he has absolutely nobody to depend on, with the possible exception of Nathan's mom.  

[shelley1234]

I've often thought the same thing, she can't even pretend to love him on camera, while people are watching her.  It's so damn tragic that he wasn't given for adoption, he has absolutely nobody to depend on, with the possible exception of Nathan's mom.  

 

Unfortunately the idea of adoption for Kaiser would never be an option.  She got preggers with him on purpose...she said because she wanted a family with Nathan.  I think she wanted to prove to the world she could be a good mom.  Sadly, she's proving the opposite.  

[GreatKazu]

I honestly do not think Jenelle ever wanted to be a mother. Having babies to keep a boyfriend seems to be the only reason these children exist. Jenelle rarely tends to her two kids, and what little she does cannot even compare to what a true parent does on a daily basis. Nathan was the one who tended to Kaiser most of the time. That does not mean he is one who should have Kaiser in his care. Jenelle being a horrible caretaker to Kaiser only makes Nathan look good by default. Nathan does not have custody of his daughter.

[leighroda]

I agree with dangerousminds, I in no way shape or for think Barb was mother of the year, for Jace or Jenelle... But Barbara pushed for Jenelle to put Jace up for adoption knowing if Jenelle kept him she would be raising him. But Jenelle kept Jace and Barb was forced to step in, it was kinda a catch 22, her getting involved was definitely better for Jace than just Jenelle but not the best case scenario by any means. I don't think Barb is the best influence, but she is definitely trying harder than jenelle and short of adoption I don't know that there were many better options for Jace unfortunately.

Btw as far as jenelles whole "Barb stole Jace" does she not remember it was all documented on her 16 and pregnant that she all but left Jace on the doorstep with a note?

[shelley1234]

I honestly do not think Jenelle ever wanted to be a mother. Having babies to keep a boyfriend seems to be the only reason these children exist. Jenelle rarely tends to her two kids, and what little she does cannot even compare to what a true parent does on a daily basis. Nathan was the one who tended to Kaiser most of the time. That does not mean he is one who should have Kaiser in his care. Jenelle being a horrible caretaker to Kaiser only makes Nathan look good by default. Nathan does not have custody of his daughter.

 

I don't think Jenelle actually wants to be a mother or do the things a mother needs to do.  However I think it is more complicated than just trying to hold on to her men.  I think, probably because of the show, she wants to be seen as a mom or more importantly as a good mom.  Jenelle is always saying, "Gawd Mom Jace doesn't do that when he is with me."  "Jace doesn't act up at MY house..." when talking to one of her 'looking for a paycheck' friends.  She is in such desperate need to be seen as someone capable at being a parent...when clearly she is the farthest from it.  I think that if Jenelle was never picked to be on Teen Mom...Jace would be living with Barb full time and Jenelle would see him a couple times a year, but she never ever ever would have tried to get him back.  She wouldn't be bothered.  

Edited April 9, 2016 by shelley1005

[NikSac]

I don't think Jenelle actually wants to be a mother or do the things a mother needs to do.  However I think it is more complicated than just trying to hold on to her men.  I think, probably because of the show, she wants to be seen as a mom or more importantly as a good mom.  Jenelle is always saying, "Gawd Mom Jace doesn't do that when he is with me."  "Jace doesn't act up at MY house..." when talking to one of her looking for a paycheck friends.  She is in such desperate need to be seen as someone capable at being a parent...when clearly she is the farthest from it.  I think that if Jenelle was never picked to be on Teen Mom...Jace would be living with Barb full time and Jenelle would see him a couple times a year, but she never ever ever would have tried to get him back.  She wouldn't be bothered.  

 

After seeing her with Kaiser, I've begun to suspect Jace probably does act up at her house and she doesn't notice, or care. Maybe she ignores him entirely, or maybe she just shuts him in his room. I guess it's easy to consider your kid well behaved when you ignore everything they do. I also think she might want her man o' the month to see her as a great Mom because that's what she's "supposed" to do, but I have seen absolutely zero motherly instincts from her.  Heck she barely has Jace as it is and still finds reasons not to be around when he's there.

[BitterApple]

Great points everyone, not to mention Jenelle is like a female version of the Disneyland Dad. The one weekend a month she has Jace, they do field trip type stuff. It's not like she ever has to exert any real effort or discipline.

Also, I think Jace is so scared shitless by the fights he witnesses he probably knows better than to rock the boat when he's with his "mother."

[ChristmasJones]

Also, I think Jace is so scared shitless by the fights he witnesses he probably knows better than to rock the boat when he's with his "mother."

 

I've always been extremely concerned about the yelling and fighting that Jace has witnessed essentially since he was born. I remember Janelle and Barbara screaming at each other within inches or feet of his face when he was a baby.

 

There is some interesting research on how perceptive young babies are -  I thought of Jace when I watched this segment:

 

[ReadMeLattice]

I definitely agree that Jenelle should have gone with Barb's wishes and given Jace up for adoption. However, she was 16 and Barb's upbringing helped to create a human who would do the things Jenelle did at 16. She was a minor at the time and while she is responsible for her choices now, obviously something from Barb or one or more of the guys in her life traumatized those kids since she's raising TWO of her grandkids now, not just Jace, there are no fathers or stepdads around anywhere, and all of them have rap sheets and problems with violence and getting into and out of violent relationship after violent relationship. Even the fact that Jenelle was how she was at 16 was a product, in part, of her environment. Now she's given her own kids an even unhealthier environment. Barb and the absent fathers she chose to breed with and marry obviously didn't grow up in healthy families, either. The cycle continues.

Edited April 9, 2016 by Lm2162

[lezlers]

I agree with dangerousminds, I in no way shape or for think Barb was mother of the year, for Jace or Jenelle... But Barbara pushed for Jenelle to put Jace up for adoption knowing if Jenelle kept him she would be raising him. But Jenelle kept Jace and Barb was forced to step in, it was kinda a catch 22, her getting involved was definitely better for Jace than just Jenelle but not the best case scenario by any means. I don't think Barb is the best influence, but she is definitely trying harder than jenelle and short of adoption I don't know that there were many better options for Jace unfortunately.

Btw as far as jenelles whole "Barb stole Jace" does she not remember it was all documented on her 16 and pregnant that she all but left Jace on the doorstep with a note?

 

If she REALLY cared about Jace she would've called social services and had got him in the system while he was still a newborn and easily adoptable.  If she had one ounce of self awareness she'd know that she shouldn't be raising him. 

[NikSac]

Also, I think Jace is so scared shitless by the fights he witnesses he probably knows better than to rock the boat when he's with his "mother."

 

Very good point. I had forgotten how he used to look pretty scared of Nathan, and Jenelle can be extremely scary herself.

[AdorkableWitch]

It's sad to see Babs and Janelle (and the kids) are both caught in the cycle of abuse. At this time, I think Jace is better off than Kaiser, an Janelle and her siblings at that age by virtue of the fact that Jace isn't constantly exposed to physical violence. In my experience, witnessing violence often perpetuates violence as a coping mechanism. I hope Jace is able to get involved with sports/Big Brothers/Scouts so he can have a good adult role model.

[NikSac]

I hope Jace is able to get involved with sports/Big Brothers/Scouts so he can have a good adult role model.

 

Agreed!  Remember when he was in karate?  He looked so happy there and what a great role model. I was hoping he's still doing that, although I imagine we would've seen it if so. I've thought Big Brothers would be great for him for a long time, too.

[leighroda]

If she REALLY cared about Jace she would've called social services and had got him in the system while he was still a newborn and easily adoptable. If she had one ounce of self awareness she'd know that she shouldn't be raising him.

For the record I said not "many" better options, not "no" better options... So yes having him put up for adoption as a baby probably would have been best, but I don't think it's so black and white that if she really cared for Jace she would have given him up at that point... I think when it's your flesh and blood (albeit by proxy because it's her grandchild) it's not quite so easy to give them up. I'm not 100% saying that Barbra did the best because I do think not having to take part in all this drama would have been better for Jace in the long run, but I don't fault her for the choice either because I don't know what I would do in the same situation, I'm not sure I could give the child up.

[Miss Chevious]

Unfortunately the idea of adoption for Kaiser would never be an option.  She got preggers with him on purpose...she said because she wanted a family with Nathan.  I think she wanted to prove to the world she could be a good mom.  Sadly, she's proving the opposite.

Remember these famous last words from Jenelle, "Yeah, let's have a baby. We'll be so busy with the baby, we won't have time to fight." Now Nathan is long gone, Jenelle is stuck with the Roll and they're STILL FIGHTING! Sad, really.